The Rachel Maddow Show - May 11 | Audio Only
MS NOW
0:00 really happy to have you here.
0:01 So, the president of the United States is off to China tomorrow.
0:04 What do you think the odds are that while he's there,
0:08 he's gonna blurt out something to the Chinese about
0:12 how he doesn't really mind if they invade Taiwan?
0:15 quote, "US allies are particularly worried that Trump,
0:18 who is known for his sweeping off-the- cuff statements,
0:22 might end up disavowing US support for Taiwan, perhaps even inadvertently,
0:29 according to conversations with five
0:31 diplomats from Asian and European countries."
0:34 Not only are they worried about what he might do on purpose,
0:38 they're worried about what he might oops seed on the international stage.
0:42 What do you think the odds are he blurts out something
0:47 wrong whether or not he means it and oops, broke Taiwan?
0:53 What are the odds?
0:55 18 patients from that hentivirus stricken cruise ship
0:58 have been brought back to the United States.
1:00 Now, what do you think the odds are that the Trump administration will contend
1:04 with that risk in ways that are sane and organized and even vaguely scientific?
1:10 This is the Trump administration that fired
1:13 thousands of scientists from the CDC.
1:16 Scientists in particular who work on infectious
1:19 diseases and all sorts of global health concerns.
1:22 Also, they fired the people who work specifically
1:25 on the issue of viruses spreading on cruise ships.
1:28 Yeah.
1:28 What do we need those folks for?
1:30 Get rid of them.
1:31 It would usually be the CDC.
1:33 That would be the lead agency in the whole world on a crisis like this.
1:39 But under Donald Trump, there's not even a CDC director right now.
1:43 Right now, they've got the CDC being run as a part-time
1:47 job by the guy who is also part-time running the NIH.
1:51 That is a guy who is most famous for his role in a declaration that said,
1:56 "Let's try to maximize the number of Americans
1:58 who get infected with COVID 19." Because sure,
2:01 CO would go on to kill more than a million Americans in that pandemic.
2:05 But do we really think that's bad?
2:07 Surely, we could have upped those numbers a little higher.
2:11 That's who Trump has running the CDC again as a part-time job.
2:15 Under Trump, the the FDA is being run by a guy who,
2:20 it was why they reported on Friday, is being fired from his job at the FDA.
2:26 There's an incredulous headline tonight at politico.com saying basically,
2:30 why is this guy still showing up at work?
2:34 Machi keeps working.
2:35 Yeah.
2:36 Isn't he fired?
2:37 Didn't we all hear on Friday that he was getting fired?
2:41 We don't know.
2:42 We'll see.
2:43 We do know that under his leadership,
2:46 the FDA just approved fruit flavored vapes because who
2:50 among us does not want to make America healthy again
2:53 by starting a maximum number of middle school boys
2:56 and girls on grapeflavored ecigarette mega dose of nicotine bombs.
3:02 Maha.
3:02 Under Donald Trump, the US government's health agencies
3:07 are also leaning in on tanning beds for kids.
3:13 Seriously, for kids,
3:14 so your kid can have healthy looking skin like HHS Secretary Robert F.
3:20 Kennedy Jr., start them early enough and they'll look like this in no time.
3:26 Pass the vape.
3:28 But don't worry, uh Trump has just
3:31 nominated yet another person for surgeon general.
3:34 This will be his third surgeon general nominee.
3:37 Neither of the first two have panned out.
3:39 Um, the last one he nominated turns out didn't have a medical license.
3:42 Uh, the one before that, uh,
3:43 said she was a graduate of the medical school of the University of Arkansas,
3:47 but it turns out she was not at all
3:50 a graduate of the University of Arkansas Medical School.
3:52 This latest one he's nominated um,
3:55 is a Fox News personality who sells tinctures on Instagram
4:00 and what she says are quote powerful physician formulated aphrodisiacs.
4:08 So clearly we're in good hands.
4:10 Or at least we're in hands.
4:12 Hands of some kind.
4:14 I don't make me think about it.
4:18 A lawsuit was filed today to stop whatever it is Trump is
4:20 doing to the reflecting pool on the National Mall in Washington DC.
4:24 He announced last month that a company who does
4:26 all his pools would be doing the reflecting pool.
4:29 And for some reason at his instruction he said they would
4:32 be painting it blue as if it were a swimming pool.
4:35 Trump announced that it would cost $1.8 million to do this job.
4:40 Also, he had somehow just directed that expenditure as if we
4:44 have the kind of government that works like that, which we don't.
4:47 But today, the New York Times reports that mysteriously late last week,
4:50 the amount being paid to the people he hired
4:52 on a no bid contract to paint the reflecting pool blue,
4:56 that amount suddenly on Friday ballooned
4:59 from the $1.8 million Trump had announced to quote,
5:02 "More than seven times that figure.
5:05 in an unannounced contract revision on Friday.
5:08 The lawsuit seeking to stop the reflecting pool slimming pool uh points
5:16 out that that reflecting pool is on the National Register of Historic Places,
5:21 which is supposed to mean something.
5:23 A lawsuit filed today also says that the reflecting pool's signature
5:28 dark color is a quote character definfining feature of the reflecting
5:32 pool and that the whole reason it's called the freaking
5:35 reflecting pool is because its dark color means it reflects.
5:40 It reflects, for example,
5:42 the Lincoln Memorial on one side and the Washington Monument on the other side.
5:46 And they don't say this, but it's implicit.
5:48 putting up little cabanas and deck chairs around it and painting
5:50 it blue is never going to turn it into a swimming pool.
5:53 Even though that's all you apparently understand.
5:56 Trump literally already paved the rose garden.
6:00 Now here he comes with the, you know, diving board for the reflecting pool.
6:09 You first, sir.
6:11 As this administration flails and fails on matters large and small,
6:17 one of the salutary consequences of that for the American people
6:22 is that when the American people push back against this administration,
6:26 the push back almost always works.
6:28 And and I I just want to take one example,
6:32 one one example that we have focused on a lot here on this show.
6:35 And I will tell you the reason we have focused on it a lot is because of me.
6:41 because because I've I frankly have spent a long
6:45 time reading the history of guys like Trump uh
6:48 in our country and in other countries around the globe
6:52 over time in multiple generations in multiple centuries and patterns emerge.
6:57 Okay.
6:58 And what I think I have learned
7:01 from that history is that like a proverbial goldfish,
7:05 guys like these grow to fit the size of their bowl.
7:09 Which means the more they have to work
7:12 with in terms of authoritarian power they can consolidate to themselves.
7:15 The more resources they have at their disposal
7:18 to use for nefarious authoritarian purposes,
7:20 the more repressive and monstrous they can be.
7:23 So it becomes very important once you realize what kind
7:26 of guy you've got at the head of your country.
7:28 becomes very important for you to think about what kind
7:31 of resources you are handing him to use for his authoritarian project.
7:35 Okay?
7:36 And so, you know, given what we know about Trump's inclinations and fantasies,
7:43 do you really think it's a good idea
7:45 for the American people with their tax dollars to build
7:48 him to build this particular president a huge new
7:50 network of some of the largest prison facilities on Earth,
7:54 all specifically designed to hold people without trial
7:58 and essentially outside the reach of the legal system?
8:01 Is that a good idea to give him that kind of a system to play with?
8:07 I think there is a case to be made
8:08 that that could be one of the single most dangerous,
8:10 one of the single worst ideas we could have as a country
8:14 in terms of handling the risks posed by an aspiring autocrat.
8:17 And so over the last few months,
8:20 I have been acutely interested in this warehouse
8:23 prison plan that Trump in his wisdom has unveiled.
8:26 I have been acutely interested specifically
8:29 in seeing the American people everywhere.
8:31 Red states, blue states, urban areas, suburban areas, rural areas, everywhere.
8:36 I have been very interested in seeing the American people
8:39 step up in all kinds of ways to just say no
8:42 to this, to say no to building Trump a network
8:45 of huge new prison camps to fill with whoever he wants.
8:49 And tonight I can tell you and I think this is an important moment to mark.
8:55 I can tell you tonight that if you have
8:57 been part of the fight against those prison camps,
9:00 if for example you supported the national protests against
9:02 the Trump prison camps that took place a few weeks ago,
9:06 or if you have supported the fight back in one of the the dozen
9:09 plus states where they where they tried to put these things and failed already,
9:13 if you were part of getting one of these Trump prison camps canled in Marramac,
9:19 New Hampshire, in Ashland,
9:22 Virginia, in Hutchkins, Texas, in Durant, Oklahoma, in Oklahoma City,
9:26 Oklahoma, in Kansas City, Missouri, in Chester, New York.
9:29 If you're in one of the places that has got one of these things canled already,
9:33 if you are in one of the places that's still now fighting tooth
9:36 and nail to stop one of these prison camps from coming into your town,
9:40 and your state, in places like Roxbury,
9:42 New Jersey, and Salt Lake City, and Hagerstown,
9:44 Maryland, and Sakoro, Texas, and Social Circle,
9:47 Georgia, and Surprise, Arizona, and Romulus, Michigan.
9:49 If you have been part of any of the fights against these facilities,
9:54 I think it's important to take a moment to know that you are winning.
9:59 You are winning this.
10:01 Your push back has worked.
10:04 Headline at Axios: ICE targets plan B after backlash to mega jails plan.
10:12 What backlash?
10:13 Oh, yeah, that's you.
10:14 Why are they giving up on plan A?
10:18 Why are they giving up on the Trump prison camp warehouse idea?
10:22 Because people have pushed back hard against it.
10:25 And when people push back against them, generally speaking, they cave.
10:31 The warehouse prisons quote have drawn significant push back from quote
10:35 local activists and legal challenges
10:37 and even from quote Republican elected officials.
10:41 Citing one source, Axios also reports, quote,
10:44 "There have also been talks about selling
10:49 some of the already purchased warehouses." Again, that's one source from Axios.
10:54 We haven't confirmed that reporting,
10:55 but it kind of tracks with how this has been going, right?
10:59 There's a lot of things that Trump and the Trump
11:02 administration have been doing that are terrible ideas for the country.
11:06 If you go by what the American
11:09 public tell pollsters they think about those ideas.
11:11 I think there is a case to be made that the worst of all ideas
11:16 from Trump is is now not yet declared
11:20 dead but it is definitely more dead than alive.
11:24 This archipelago of massive prison camps for Trump.
11:29 They tried it.
11:31 They could not handle the push back.
11:34 And so now basically they are no longer trying it.
11:37 And it doesn't mean these fights are over.
11:39 People are going to be protesting in Hagerstown, Maryland, for example,
11:42 tomorrow against their continuing efforts there to make
11:46 sure this thing is never ever going to happen.
11:49 But if you have been part of this fight
11:51 against the Trump administration for these past few months,
11:54 honestly, this news should put some wind
11:56 in your sales cuz what you've done has worked.
11:59 It has been protests.
12:00 It has been pressuring local elected officials, including the Republican ones.
12:05 It has also been some lowp profofile but really consequential,
12:10 brave local officials like this man.
12:13 This man, the town manager from Social Circle, Georgia,
12:16 a local official who did not ask for this fight, but when it came to him,
12:21 he decided he was just going to throw himself in the path of this thing.
12:24 And if he had to make up his own tactics to do so as he went along,
12:30 well then that's what he would do.
12:33 Watch.
12:33 Do you feel like your community is being steamrolled?
12:37 Absolutely.
12:37 Absolutely.
12:38 Um I feel like at times that um I
12:42 am one man standing in front of the freight train.
12:47 That's the federal government.
12:49 The facility was originally set to open in May or June.
12:53 Under Mullen, the timeline is unclear.
12:55 For now, Taylor is using every tool to make that impossible.
12:58 I have put a lock on the water meter over there.
13:02 You went over and locked their water at the facility.
13:05 Yes.
13:06 Can you do that?
13:07 I don't know.
13:08 I don't know.
13:09 I did.
13:10 You did it.
13:11 All right.
13:11 It's done.
13:12 I did.
13:12 I did.
13:13 and you know and and I and I I told them that I wasn't going to remove
13:17 the lock until I get a satisfactory answer about
13:20 how they're going to be servicing the water and sewer.
13:22 You know, I'm a big admirer of John Lewis and and his um
13:26 getting good trouble and that's my uh that's my one way of hopefully,
13:31 you know, getting into some good trouble on behalf of of this community.
13:36 Getting into some good trouble.
13:38 That's the city manager of Social Circle Georgia.
13:42 um his name is Eric Taylor um interviewed by Antonia Hilton for MS Now.
13:48 That good trouble of that kind and others um has worked so far
13:52 with the Trump administration looking for a plan
13:56 B since plan A didn't work at all.
13:59 When you push back against these guys,
14:01 you win way more often than you might think.
14:04 They don't want to work hard.
14:05 They want to do stuff that's easier.
14:07 They can intimidate people out of pushing back against.
14:10 But when people do push back, more than not, they cave.
14:13 And and and now we're starting to see
14:16 this campaign against the Trump prison camp, the warehouse prisons, right?
14:19 We're starting to see that campaign, that successful campaign spread out.
14:22 So, it's also about the prisons that Trump already has open,
14:26 not the new ones he was he is finding himself unable to build,
14:29 but the existing prisons where Trump has been holding immigrants without trial.
14:32 I mean, these are images just from the past few days.
14:35 People protesting at the immigrant prison where they hold people in St.
14:38 Albins's, Vermont.
14:39 That was this weekend.
14:41 That was Friday.
14:42 People protesting outside Texas Governor Greg
14:44 Abbott's house on Mother's Day weekend.
14:46 Protesting about moms and kids held in the hellhole immigrant
14:49 prison camp they hold women and children in at Dilly, Texas.
14:54 We're seeing people protesting this weekend and and frankly regularly now.
14:58 And with increasing intensity at the biggest
15:00 ICE facility in the whole Northeast, the very troubled, very screwed up
15:04 Moshannon Valley facility in central Pennsylvania.
15:06 Moms were protesting there this Mother's Day weekend as well,
15:10 specifically about the women held at that increasingly
15:13 notorious prison in central p central Pennsylvania.
15:15 Uh the news outlet Pen Live has
15:17 just started an eight-part series on the Moshannan
15:20 Valley prison for immigrants and what seems
15:22 to be going so very very wrong there.
15:24 Keep your eye on that Moshannan Valley facility.
15:26 People locally in central Pennsylvania protesting there.
15:29 People now coming from Pittsburgh and from Philly.
15:32 Keep eyes on that as they move to close down
15:35 the so-called Alligator Alcatraz prison in the Everglades in Florida.
15:39 As they move to potentially close down the Camp
15:42 East Montana disastrous Trump immigrant prison that they
15:45 built at Fort Bliss in El Paso and where
15:48 they've already fired the contractor who was running it.
15:51 Just just watch these protests.
15:52 watch these campaigns because even though the Trump
15:55 administration and all guys like him always try to make it seem like the stuff
16:01 they're doing is inevitable and permanent and there's,
16:03 you know, resistance is futile.
16:05 Turns out none of it is inevitable and permanent.
16:07 When they get pushed back, they cave.
16:10 They can't handle sustained, smart, non-violent opposition.
16:13 More often than not, it flumxes them.
16:15 It makes things just too hard for them and it makes them change course.
16:19 And and part of that I I I think an increasingly large part
16:24 of that as time goes on is is because part of the reason they cave.
16:29 I think part of the reason they lose basically every fight anybody
16:34 picks with them is because they're not just hapless and shambolic when it
16:39 comes to things like accidentally starting wars they don't understand and you
16:43 know firing all the government experts who work on cruise ship virus outbreaks.
16:48 you know, hiring influencers for doctor jobs, right?
16:51 They're they're not just bad at that stuff.
16:53 It turns out, we're seeing this more and more over time,
16:57 that they are particularly bad in court.
17:00 They are particularly terrible lawyers.
17:02 And when you're talking about government policy,
17:05 that is turning out to be a bigger
17:07 and a bigger Achilles heel for them all the time.
17:10 You will remember, for example, uh when when Trump lawyers sent Marramac,
17:15 New Hampshire legal documents that spelled out how they were going
17:18 to install that Trump warehouse prison camp in Marramac, New Hampshire.
17:21 They sent the town of Marramac,
17:23 New Hampshire all these documents spelling out how great this new
17:28 prison was going to be for the economy of Oklahoma.
17:33 This is in New Hampshire, you guys.
17:35 That's not right.
17:36 But that kind of what that kind of duh step
17:40 on a rake error is a theme with these guys.
17:43 Uh the excellent Wired magazine just recently did a rundown on how
17:47 things are going specifically at the Justice Department's voting rights section.
17:50 Used to be kind of the crown jewel of the Justice
17:53 Department in terms of excellent lawyers and excellent lawyering.
17:56 Right now, quote, "Mistakes in the office happen constantly."
18:00 In a May letter sent to the Colorado Secretary of State,
18:04 the DOJ rejected access to records.
18:06 excuse me, requested access to records pertaining to the November
18:10 2000 federal election when they likely meant the 2020 federal election.
18:15 In August, DOJ sent a letter to the New Hampshire Secretary of State
18:20 seeking voter records which cited the wrong
18:22 provision of the Help America Vote Act.
18:25 In January, lawyers at Trump's DOJ filed
18:27 a lawsuit in the wrong federal court in Georgia,
18:31 and the judge therefore dismissed the action.
18:33 In February, the same agency filed a lawsuit seeking New Jersey's voter roles.
18:38 In that lawsuit, they misspelled Governor Mikey Cheryl's last name five
18:43 out of the eight times she was mentioned in their lawsuit.
18:46 In March, it was revealed that lawyers at Trump's DOJ had spent
18:50 months emailing the wrong address while
18:53 seeking information on Oklahoma voter roles.
18:55 Also in March, a judge in Washington state demanded to know why DOJ
18:59 voting section lawyers had improperly served
19:02 their lawsuit and missed a crucial deadline.
19:04 The judge also questioned whether whether the lawsuit was served in a different
19:09 way than had been outlined to the court by DOJ and if so,
19:13 why DOJ's lawyers had made quote inaccurate representations to the court.
19:17 In another filing in late February,
19:19 DOJ lawyers seeking sensitive voting data in a single filing
19:26 misspelled the words voters emergency and United States United St.
19:34 I mean I mean how's it how's it going overall with Trump lawyers efforts
19:40 to to nationalize the midterm elections and have
19:43 Trump take over elections all over the country?
19:46 quote, "The Justice Department has not secured a single court victory in the 30
19:50 lawsuits it has filed to try to force states to turn over sensitive
19:54 personal data on voters." The Washington Post reports now that in the crucial
20:00 Eastern District of Virginia wi-i which handles
20:02 a a ton of national security cases, um Trump's genius effort to bring a banana
20:08 Republic criminal case against former FBI director James Comey,
20:11 you know, the sea shells thing that has resulted
20:14 in that office losing EDVA has lost its US attorney.
20:17 They've also lost the head of the criminal division there.
20:21 They've also lost the head of their national security division.
20:23 Also the deputy head of the national security division.
20:26 And yes, surprise, that is the same office that just
20:29 lost the highest profile terrorism case of Trump's second term.
20:33 They charged a guy with a suicide bombing
20:36 at the Kbble airport that killed 13 American service members.
20:39 You remember that?
20:40 Well, it turns out, surprise, after losing all the top attorneys working
20:44 on the that case in that US attorney's office,
20:46 surprise, they were not able to get a conviction on that charge.
20:52 Last week, we also saw Trump's DOJ abruptly
20:55 drop felony charges against protesters they arrested in Illinois,
20:59 protesters who were protesting against ICE.
21:02 Trump's prosecutors dropped the charges, and we don't exactly know why,
21:06 but they dropped the charges unexpectedly,
21:07 right after the judge in that case demanded to see the transcripts
21:10 of what exactly those lawyers had said to the grand jury behind doors,
21:14 behind closed doors,
21:15 in order to get those felony indictments in the first place.
21:19 Is it possible that something bad was indicated in those transcripts?
21:22 They couldn't let the judge see.
21:24 I don't know.
21:25 But it cost them all those felony charges.
21:27 They dropped them all.
21:29 Even in the ballroom case,
21:31 the ballroom people suing to stop the stupid ballroom construction
21:35 of what used to be the east wing of the White House.
21:39 Those plaintiffs have now told the judge that they believe Trump's DOJ
21:43 lawyers lied to the court multiple times in that case about the ballroom.
21:48 A federal judge in Rhode Island, we talked about this last week on the show,
21:54 is also now pursuing a disciplinary referral against one of Trump's DOJ
21:59 lawyers for a disciplinary referral for misconduct
22:01 because that lawyer appears to have, say it with me now, lied to the court,
22:08 which is something you are really, really, really not allowed to do.
22:13 So, we're gonna we're going to talk tonight on the show about
22:16 the effort to try to fight back against the new Jim Crow.
22:19 Trump's appointees on the Supreme Court voting to end the Voting Rights Act.
22:24 Republicans all over the South moving with lightning
22:27 speed to bring us back to the 19th century,
22:30 to end all black representation in the states
22:33 of the Old Confederacy and anywhere else Republicans are in control.
22:40 Their best trick is to make
22:42 their actions seem permanent and irreversible and inevitable.
22:45 The people's best trick is to push back
22:49 nonviolently and relentlessly and then watch them cave.
22:53 They don't like a hard fight in the first
22:56 place when their hard fight has to involve lawyering, which it so often does.
23:01 Well, it turns out they're as good at that at that as they are at skincare
23:06 advice and international diplomacy and aphrodisiacs you can
23:09 buy on Instagram from the wouldbe surgeon general.
23:16 The former head of the civil rights division at DOJ is going
23:18 to join us next on the fight for black America's voting rights.
23:21 The head of the campaign for accountability
23:23 is here tonight on the latest Trump official
23:25 to just blurt out and confess to what
23:27 appears to be some serious public corruption.
23:29 The folks behind the secret handshake Jeffrey Epstein
23:32 Donald Trump statue have have done it again.
23:34 They have outdone themselves this time.
23:35 We've got that coming up for you in just a moment.
23:39 We got a lot to get to tonight.
23:41 Lots to see.
23:42 Stay with us.
23:48 Tens of thousands of people in his state had
23:51 already voted when Louisiana's Republican Governor Jeff Landry stopped elections
23:54 that were already underway in his state last week
23:57 in response to the conservative justices on the US Supreme Court,
24:01 effectively ending the Voting Rights Act of 1965.
24:04 Governor Landry declared an emergency and moved to change the rules midgame uh
24:11 allowing Republicans in his state to erase
24:13 the state's majority black congressional districts.
24:15 So even though a third of the state is black,
24:18 black voters would elect zero of the state's members of Congress.
24:22 Sure, the election had already started.
24:23 Sure, tens of thousands of people had already cast their votes.
24:27 Of course, there was chaos and anger at the polls.
24:29 But no, Governor Jeff Landry told 60 Minutes this weekend, "No,
24:33 he said,"None of that is my fault." Voting
24:37 is already happening as we sit here right now.
24:40 Uh more than 45,000 ballots have been returned.
24:43 What happens to those?
24:44 Oh, those ballots are discarded
24:46 and and those voters will vote again in November.
24:49 You say that like it's not a big deal.
24:51 Well, it's it's not a big deal.
24:54 It's not my fault.
24:55 It's not my fault.
24:57 Those votes will all be discarded.
24:59 It's not my fault.
25:01 This week, residents of Louisiana began
25:03 an effort to recall Governor Jeff Landry.
25:06 They will need to gather more than
25:08 a half million valid signatures from Louisiana
25:10 voters by October to move forward with that, which will not at all be easy.
25:15 But honestly, people want to do something.
25:16 There's a lot of people in Louisiana right now
25:18 who are just ri roaring about what's going on.
25:21 And quite understandably, I mean,
25:22 this was the scene inside the Louisiana State House last
25:25 week as Republicans work to jam through the new maps.
25:29 Protesters packing the halls demanding to be heard.
25:31 It's frankly some of the same in Alabama,
25:34 where Republicans are trying to take away at least one
25:37 of the two congressional districts in Alabama represented by a black lawmaker.
25:41 Protesters saying, "We shall overcome outside the House
25:44 chamber." Some of them dragged away by security guards.
25:48 Same thing in Tennessee where Republicans have
25:51 passed new maps that break up majority
25:54 black Memphis so Republicans run the can run the table for the whole state.
25:58 Protesters blew whistles and booed and shouted shame
26:01 as Republican lawmakers walked in to cast their votes.
26:04 I should tell you in Tennessee,
26:06 a big slice of black residents in Memphis will now
26:09 have their votes folded into a white county called Williamson County.
26:13 Williamson County literally still has a Confederate flag on their county seal,
26:18 but they'll have just the right size
26:21 of a slice of black voters from Memphis to make
26:24 sure they can never with our other Memphis
26:27 residents elect a member of Congress of their choosing.
26:30 There's a reason why people are calling this Jim Crow 2.0.
26:35 This really is plainly an effort to drag us
26:38 back to the postreonstruction era after the Civil War, right?
26:40 so-called redemption of the old Confederacy where
26:43 the slave states reverted to giving black
26:45 Americans zero say in their own democracy
26:49 and the federal government let them do it.
26:53 Tonight, the conservatives on the US Supreme Court gave their blessing
26:57 to the no black voters need apply new map in Alabama.
27:00 Even though more than a quarter of the population of Alabama is black,
27:04 nothing about this is subtle.
27:05 People recognize absolutely what is happening.
27:07 They are energized and they are fighting for it in the halls of our state
27:12 capitals and also in the courts where
27:14 in some cases they are getting some excellent help.
27:17 Our next guest led the civil rights division at the US Department
27:21 of Justice under President Biden when it was still the Department of Justice.
27:25 Assistant Attorney General Kristen Clark came to that job after
27:28 after defending voting rights at the NAACP legal defense fund.
27:31 Now she serves as general counsel at the NAACP.
27:34 Right now, she is leading the legal battle
27:36 against what Republicans are trying to do in Tennessee.
27:39 Joining us now, Kristen Clark, general counsel for the NAACP,
27:42 former assistant attorney general of the United States.
27:45 Uh, Miss Clark, it's a real honor to have you here.
27:47 Thank you for making time tonight.
27:49 Thank you for having me.
27:50 There's a lot of fight back on this issue and there's a lot
27:53 of passion on this issue and I think people see it very clearly.
27:58 What I think people don't know how to assess is whether this is gone,
28:03 whether this ship has sailed,
28:04 whether the fight back has any prospects of success.
28:07 I mean, I'm I'm interested to hear
28:09 about that for your your lawsuit in Tennessee,
28:11 but also how you how you view this more broadly.
28:14 Yeah.
28:15 Well, it is no doubt a a challenging moment in American democracy.
28:22 And I think history shows that you democracy dies in the darkness.
28:27 It dies in silence.
28:29 But what we're seeing right now from Tennessee to Alabama,
28:33 Louisiana, is that people are rising up.
28:37 They are turning out to the town halls.
28:39 They are showing up in their capitals.
28:42 They are making clear that we are are not going to stand by idly as lawmakers
28:48 work to strip black people of their voice
28:51 and strip them of the ability to shape democracy.
28:55 Right now uh at the NAACP we are busy and active in the courts.
29:01 We are determined to use every tool available even in the wake
29:06 of the destruction dealt to our nation's most sacred civil rights law,
29:09 the Voting Rights Act.
29:11 We are determined to use every tool available to fight back.
29:17 A democracy is uh nothing without representation.
29:22 I know that the NAACP has helped to mobilize
29:25 people um in Alabama and Tennessee and elsewhere.
29:28 And we're seeing obviously, you know, just the the palpable pain and anger
29:32 and I think determination to not let this stand,
29:35 to not just let this go by um in those states and others.
29:39 What do you think the mood is like um
29:42 in these states where you are helping people fight
29:44 and where you've been helping people organize and where
29:48 people are feeling the brunt of this um so bluntly?
29:52 People are angry.
29:53 People are fired up.
29:55 This is not the American democracy that we have fought uh
30:01 for uh that people gave their lives for that people bled for.
30:07 you know, in the Supreme Court ruling that uh
30:10 put the death nail in the Voting Rights Act,
30:13 you know, Justice Alo and in the Shelby decision,
30:16 um uh Justice Roberts talked about the South.
30:19 They in their view think that, you know,
30:23 we've reached a new day in America, especially in the South, they say.
30:27 But right now, the South is exhibit A for how
30:31 far we still need to go as a country.
30:34 It is not surprising or shocking that the South is the one
30:39 racing forward at lightning speed to strip black people of their voice.
30:43 And they're doing so without hesitation or shame.
30:46 The Voting Rights Act was always what nudged us in the right direction.
30:52 And that nudge was needed most greatly in the South, in the deep south states,
30:57 a former con confederacy that is not even blinking as they
31:03 shamelessly strip uh away districts
31:06 represented by honorable black public servants.
31:09 So, as we have done throughout our nation's history,
31:13 the NAACP will continue to march forward
31:16 in the wake of the animus and the hostility.
31:20 We will uh turn out in the streets and use our votes, our voices.
31:25 We will turn out in the courts, constitution in hand,
31:28 standing up for the rights outlined in the reconstruction amendments.
31:33 But most importantly, this election season,
31:36 you will see turnout like you have never seen before.
31:40 It is at the ballot box where we will use
31:43 our voice in the most determined fashion during this dark season.
31:49 Kristen Clark, general counsel for the NAACP,
31:51 former uh head of the Civil Rights Division at the US Department of Justice.
31:56 Um, Miss Clark, it is a real honor
31:57 to have you here whenever we can have you here.
31:59 Thank you for making time tonight.
32:00 Keep us surprised.
32:01 I know this fight is just beginning.
32:03 Thank you for having me.
32:06 All right, much more news ahead here tonight.
32:11 Stay with us.
32:13 Here's a name I'm willing to bet you do not remember.
32:18 You ready?
32:18 Karen Bud Failen.
32:20 It's fun to say.
32:21 Say it with me.
32:22 Karen Bud Failen.
32:23 Karen Bud Failen.
32:24 Karen Bud Failen.
32:25 Uh she is the number three person in Donald Trump's Interior Department.
32:28 She also served there during Trump's first term.
32:30 Her family has a bunch of ranch land in Nevada and Wyoming.
32:33 And a few months ago,
32:34 the New York Times published an article that will someday get optioned
32:38 for a children's treasury
32:39 or a or a a compact encyclopedia of American corruption.
32:44 Right.
32:45 Just just a quintessential example.
32:47 This is how you would explain what corruption is to a child.
32:52 Okay, so there's a mining company that wants to build a mine.
32:55 They need water if they're going to build their mine.
32:57 They approach a local ranch to ask if they can buy their water rights.
33:01 The ranch is owned by Karen Bud Failen's family.
33:05 Karen Bud Failen's husband agrees to sell the water
33:09 rights from his ranch to the mining company.
33:12 There's only one contingency.
33:13 The whole deal only goes through if the mine happens.
33:17 If the mining company gets to actually build the mine.
33:20 And what will decide that?
33:22 Well, they need approval to build this mine from the interior department.
33:27 Conveniently, Karen Bud Failen is a senior official at the Interior Department.
33:32 So, after this deal goes down, she meets with the mining company
33:36 at the Interior Department's headquarters in Washington.
33:38 She meets with people from the mining company.
33:40 And even though the company swore that at that meeting, it was just for fun.
33:44 They didn't talk about the mine at all, wouldn't you know it,
33:47 the mine soon got its approval from the Interior Department where Karen
33:53 Bud Failen is a senior official and therefore her family got paid.
33:58 That happened just before Trump left office in his first term.
34:03 Karen Bud Failen's family got paid millions and soon congressional Democrats
34:09 were calling for an investigation
34:11 by the Interior Department's Inspector General.
34:13 Um I, as I said though,
34:15 I I I I bet you don't remember Karen Bud Failen's name though,
34:19 even though it's really fun to say.
34:21 Um, and the reason you probably don't remember her name is because
34:25 the day there had been a bunch of really good local reporting on it,
34:28 but the day the New York Times published
34:30 that big national quintessential corruption story about her in January,
34:34 that was the day President Trump invaded Venezuela.
34:38 And so, poof, there went the story about
34:41 Karen Bud Failen never to be heard from again.
34:45 And so, it never turned into a scandal.
34:48 She stayed exactly where she is.
34:50 And now it turns out there's more.
34:52 Now we have this.
34:53 This time from the Washington Post.
34:55 Quote, "Trump official says she's involved in policy
34:58 changes that benefit her family's ranches." Video shows.
35:02 Quote, "A top Trump appointee at the Interior
35:05 Department acknowledged that she's been involved in changes
35:08 to grazing policies that benefit ranching businesses like
35:11 her families." According to a video of her remarks,
35:13 it's a claim that some ethics experts say could violate federal law.
35:17 That top Trump appointee obviously is Karen Bud Failen.
35:22 Karen Bud Failen.
35:23 Karen Bud Failen.
35:25 Uh in this video, which is from December,
35:28 Karen Bud Failen tells a a room of conservative members of Congress
35:32 that among her responsibilities at the Interior
35:35 Department is quote uh grazing regulations.
35:38 She says, quote, "The thing that probably was the closest to my heart
35:42 was grazing regulations." Why is it so close to her heart?
35:45 Maybe because she and her husband hold grazing leases on about
35:49 a quarter million acres of federal land overseen by the Interior Department.
35:54 So those regulations are literally her family business.
35:57 In the video, Karen Bud Failen regales the lawmakers
36:01 with how much her department is relaxing grazing regulations,
36:04 including for quote places like northern
36:06 Nevada where my father-in-law's place is.
36:09 Karen Bud Failen's father-in-law died several years ago.
36:13 What?
36:13 So, what she actually appears to be
36:15 talking about here is now her husband's place.
36:18 So, she's relaxed regulations that apply to her husband's ranch.
36:22 Can you do that?
36:24 We reached out to the Interior Department today and they
36:27 sent us a statement that reads in part, quote,
36:30 Karen Bud Failen has complied and continues to comply
36:33 with any and all legal requirements, ethical standards,
36:35 and ethics guidelines as directed by the Office
36:38 of Government Ethics and the Department Ethics Officials.
36:41 That said, the nonprofit watchdog group
36:43 Campaign for Accountability has now written
36:45 to the US House and Senate advising them that maybe they ought to open some
36:50 investigations into this into what they call
36:53 serious and escalating ethics violations involving Karen
36:57 Bud Failen whose name might actually start to stick in our minds this time.
37:02 Karen Bud Failen.
37:03 Joining us now is Michelle Coopermith.
37:04 She's executive director of the campaign for Accountability.
37:07 Miss Cooper Smith, thank you very much for being here.
37:10 Thanks for having me.
37:11 Did I explain any of that the wrong way around?
37:13 I think you did an excellent job and I'm
37:16 quite impressed in fact because it is so ridiculous.
37:18 Are are there rules or even laws
37:22 that Karen Bud Failen could potentially be violating here?
37:26 I mean, it really does seem like
37:28 a very very very straightforward conflict of interest.
37:30 Like almost the way you teach somebody what a conflict of interest is.
37:34 Yes, I would certainly say it's a textbook conflict of interest.
37:36 And you know, it's really easy to follow the rules when you're rewriting them,
37:40 which seems to be what's happening at the Department of Interior.
37:43 And that's why we're asking Congress to execute some of its,
37:47 you know, checks, you know, let's give some balance um what we learned about
37:50 in school and uh do its job and see what's
37:53 happening at the Department of Interior because clearly the ethics
37:55 office is not holding up its side of the bargain.
37:59 How do you think about um the relative
38:02 size of various scandals uh in the Trump administration?
38:05 Even if you're just talking about selfdealing,
38:07 you're just talking about financial conflicts of interest.
38:10 I feel like um sometimes when it feels
38:12 like there's a lot of those kinds of violations,
38:15 it feels sort of fruitless to even pick one.
38:17 Um, on the other hand, when it's something so straightforward and so clear,
38:22 there's the possibility that an investigation
38:24 into a matter like this might be sort
38:27 of a a signal moment of accountability even
38:29 if there are other wrongdoers in the administration.
38:31 Um, how do you think about those the balance of those equities?
38:35 I think that's completely right.
38:37 You know, investigations into very very
38:39 obvious conflicts of interest like this one,
38:41 it serves as a deterrent to others, right?
38:44 We want to send the message that you cannot do things
38:47 like this, that there will be accountability if you break the rules.
38:50 And that's why we're just calling on Congress, do your job.
38:52 Let's look into what's happening.
38:54 And I don't think that this is a partisan issue because our government
38:57 officials should be working on behalf of all people in this country.
39:00 It's not just those who have grazing aotments or those who own ranches.
39:05 It's for everyone.
39:06 Michelle Cooper Smith, executive director of the campaign for Accountability.
39:10 Uh I'm really interested in the story.
39:12 Um, I'm be interested to hear what you hear back from Congress on this.
39:16 Um, please keep us surprised.
39:17 Thank you.
39:18 Definitely.
39:19 Thanks for having me.
39:21 All right, we'll be right back.
39:24 Stay with us.
39:26 You know this group that calls themselves Secret Handshake?
39:28 Uh, nobody really knows who they are,
39:30 but they they're the group that keeps putting up
39:33 different life-sized statues of Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein,
39:36 like this one on the National Mall in Washington DC.
39:39 You may remember they also did the big golden toilet on the National Mall.
39:43 Hey, just what we needed.
39:45 Uh well, today the folks at Secret Handshake, whoever they are,
39:49 they have a new installation in the nation's capital.
39:52 Um Trump decided to call his war in Iran Operation Epic Fury,
39:57 which is hilarious in its own right.
40:00 But behold, Operation Epic Furious.
40:03 Straight to hell.
40:04 Straight as in straight of Hormuz.
40:08 This is a real fully functioning old school arcade game.
40:12 Um, a couple of them stationed at the War Memorial in Washington DC.
40:17 You can you can go see them there.
40:19 They're out in public.
40:20 You they work.
40:21 You can play them.
40:22 And if you're not in DC, you can still take a crack at this thing online.
40:26 Secret Handshake made an online version of this video
40:29 game so you can play at home.
40:32 Um, basic ideas in the game.
40:34 You play as if you are President Trump deciding to invade Iran.
40:38 You start the game behind the Resolute desk in the Oval Office
40:41 and your options then are either to order a Diet Coke or to invade Iran.
40:46 You can order as many Diet Cokes as you want.
40:49 They just pile up there on the desk one after another.
40:52 Um then you might see the other thing.
40:54 See the fireplace in the Oval Office.
40:55 If you walk up over to the fireplace,
40:57 you can start setting Epstein files on fire.
40:59 Every time you throw one of the Epstein files into the flames,
41:03 it tells you how many of them are still left to burn.
41:05 So, you might be there a while doing that one by one.
41:08 Uh, once you stop ordering Diet Cokes and burning Epstein files,
41:11 you can then leave the White House by helicopter to go fight bad guys in Iran.
41:18 Bad guys like this lowflow shower head.
41:21 Um, if you do good fighting,
41:23 you can earn oil and also truth social posts written on rolls of toilet paper.
41:28 But if you actually want to post the truth social posts,
41:30 you have to find the secret golden toilet inside the military
41:34 base and then flush the rolls of toilet paper down the drain.
41:38 But not so fast.
41:39 That's not the end.
41:41 Um, the only way to end the game is
41:44 to go back to the White House and see Melania.
41:46 And the first thing she says to you when you see her is,
41:50 "I was never on the Epstein jet." She will then
41:53 ask you if you have burned all the Epstein files.
41:56 You can tell her you are working on it or you
42:01 can ask to hold her hand in which case game over.
42:07 I'm terrible at video games.
42:08 I spent way too much time with this today.
42:11 Uh I got to tell you at one at one point JD Vance pops up
42:16 in Iran and tells Trump that he has
42:18 been taking all his cognitive tests for him boss.
42:21 And I laughed out loud and messed up the whole game and had to start over.
42:26 Anyway, uh we will post the link on mattoblog.com if you want to try it out.
42:31 Operation Epic Furious.
42:32 Um there are live arcade games of this at the War
42:36 Memorial in Washington DC right now and you can play it online.
42:39 This is from the folks at Secret Handshake.
42:41 We do not know who they are, but honestly, long may they wave.
42:49 More ahead.
42:50 Stay with us.
42:53 All right, that's going to do it for me tonight.
43:00 Thanks so much for being here.