From a Basement to a Billion Dollar Brand - The Greatest Founder Story You Never Heard

0:00 So, today I get to sit down with the incredible founder,

0:03 Monique Rodriguez, who founded a company called Mielle.

0:07 Now, if this is quite literally the American dream come true.

0:11 When you start a brand at your kitchen table, raise millions of dollars,

0:16 and then sell it to one of the biggest conglomerates in the space.

0:21 But, it wasn't all smooth sailing, and what I love about the interview is

0:24 that she's really honest about what it actually took

0:27 to build and sell this business when she

0:29 didn't know anything about the space or the category,

0:32 and had no idea about what it would actually take to make it successful.

0:38 What is so amazing is that Monique is actually on the other side.

0:41 She's still the CEO of her brand, which was acquired by Procter& Gamble.

0:45 It's pretty much a master class in what it takes,

0:48 and I know you guys will love this episode.

0:50 Don't forget to like and subscribe.

0:54 We were two or three million dollars in the hole.

0:56 And so, when [music] the banks are knocking

0:58 at your door and they're threatening to take your home,

1:01 that's when I'm like, I don't know if [music] we're going to make it.

1:04 Monique Rodriguez built Mielle into a billion dollar business,

1:07 starting in her basement,

1:08 [music] betting on herself after a loss that changed everything.

1:12 I went through [music] the tragic loss of my son

1:15 in 2013 when I was eight months pregnant.

1:17 You only get one shot at life,

1:18 and I no longer wanted to live life based on someone else's terms.

1:24 We took all of our life savings,

1:26 we took everything that we were making to just solely put it into Mielle.

1:29 We were flying the plane and building it at the same time.

1:32 She made real [music] mistakes, lost money, and put everything on the line.

1:36 And we put our house up.

1:37 But, she learned [music] how to scale,

1:39 who to bring in, and ended up negotiating the exit of a lifetime.

1:43 It's so important to understand [music] what you did,

1:45 when you did it, how you did it.

1:47 Build a company like you are going to have it acquired,

1:50 [music] even if that's not your goal.

1:52 But, when brands like Mielle grows to the capacity and [music] scale, you know,

1:56 we shouldn't be criticized for doing the very thing that, you know,

1:59 people complain about not having [music] access to.

2:01 With 3 years post acquisition now, do you feel like you have a lot to prove?

2:17 [music] The Start With Yourself Tour kicks off on April 15th in New York City.

2:21 Tickets are on sale now at emagre.com.

2:24 Monique, welcome to Aspire.

2:26 Thank you.

2:26 I'm so excited to be here.

2:28 So happy to be here.

2:29 And I am so excited to have you.

2:32 We've got so much to talk about.

2:33 Yes.

2:34 So I'm trying to like figure out if we've covered it all before,

2:36 but we're going to cover it for the people all over again.

2:39 it today.

2:39 I promise you.

2:40 Oh yes, we are.

2:41 And I love you for that.

2:42 When I think about you, Monique,

2:44 your journey has been like quite literally any founder's dream.

2:48 And what I wanted to ask you was like, when you pull the curtain back,

2:51 what do you think the hardest part has been in building Mielle?

2:55 Wow.

2:56 Well, I would say the hardest part in building

2:58 Mielle was not having anyone to show me the blueprint.

3:03 And really just figuring this out as I go.

3:05 Like we are we were flying the plane and building it at the same time.

3:09 And so that can come with a lot of mistakes, lot of trial and error.

3:13 And you know, also not having the capital to sustain when we first started out.

3:19 We were bootstrapping and using our paychecks and what

3:21 we had in our savings to fund the business.

3:25 And that was a huge risk because, you know, I was working as a nurse,

3:28 my husband was an engineer, and we were really just betting on ourselves,

3:32 and we had to make this work because, you know,

3:36 we didn't have a plan B to fall back on, right?

3:38 We took all of our life savings,

3:40 we took all of everything that we were making to just solely put it into Mielle.

3:44 And that's the hard part that people don't see.

3:46 Like they see the glory on the outside,

3:48 but not really understanding like the turmoil that comes with the stress

3:53 of not knowing where your next payment is going to come

3:55 from to fund your inventory and then you have your kids depending

3:59 on you and you don't want to disappoint them and then you

4:02 have the outside world that's looking at you crazy like well

4:05 you guys had great jobs why are you leaving these great careers

4:08 that are very stable and you have your 401K and your pensions

4:12 to fall back on like you're just throwing all of that away.

4:15 So you're also dealing with the pressures of the families

4:17 and friends that don't really understand and see the full picture.

4:20 Um and you know you don't want to disappoint you

4:23 don't want to disappoint them but more importantly not disappoint yourself.

4:26 So What would you actually say to other founders?

4:31 Like what do you wish you'd have known earlier in your journey?

4:35 So what I wish I would have known earlier

4:37 in my founder journey is that everyone's not going

4:41 to like and agree with the decisions that you make

4:44 as a founder even if your intentions are very pure.

4:49 And I had to learn that obviously when I did my acquisition with P&G and I

4:55 felt that this was something that I prayed

4:58 about I felt that you know this was something

5:00 that was God led and I knew that my intentions behind why I wanted to be

5:05 acquired was very pure but on the back

5:08 end I received a lot of criticism for that.

5:11 did really?

5:12 I didn't know that.

5:15 [laughter] Well I felt it I felt it.

5:16 going to take all the way in because people really have

5:18 to understand what you've been through what you built the scale of what

5:23 you built and then you know I feel like you dealt

5:25 with unbelievable backlash from the very

5:28 community that you built this brand for.

5:30 Yeah and something that we should celebrate right?

5:32 Yeah like 100% like I was team Monique all the way

5:35 in all the way through but let me tell you visibly and noticeably

5:41 in the text and in the comments but I wonder what that actually

5:43 teaches you about like anyone who holds an opinion of your decisions.

5:49 Like what What do you think now having the benefit of hindsight

5:52 and being able to look back at that moment through very,

5:55 you know, rose-tinted glasses?

5:57 What did that moment teach you?

5:58 You know, that moment taught me that you have to stay true to who

6:02 you are and be your authentic self and stay true to your vision.

6:06 And it's okay to know that sometimes people are going to misunderstand you,

6:11 especially when they're not coming from the same place that you came from.

6:14 And you know, like I talked about earlier, no one understands the blood,

6:18 sweat, and tears, and the sacrifices that we put into building Mielle.

6:23 So, I can't expect someone that, you know,

6:25 didn't come from the same place that I came from, didn't walk a day in my shoes.

6:30 I can't expect them to understand why I made

6:32 the decisions and why I decided to, you know,

6:35 partner with the brand that can take my brand to a global place.

6:39 You know, when I built Mielle from the ground up,

6:41 I never wanted it to be mediocre.

6:43 I've always wanted it to be a global brand.

6:46 And so, it really just taught me to just stay true to my vision,

6:50 you know, hold on to that vision, but I knew that I needed to surround myself

6:54 with the right people to help execute that vision.

6:57 So, I would tell founders like, you know,

6:58 stay true to your vision, stay close to it,

7:01 but you don't have to be the one to always carry the vision with you.

7:04 Like that's a smart entrepreneur is finding the right

7:07 people to help execute with you, not for you,

7:10 so you can truly realize the full potential of what

7:14 you started for me in my home in my kitchen, right?

7:17 And so, to me it's a huge success story and, you know,

7:21 I just feel that people may not get it, may not understand,

7:24 but I know that my intention behind it was

7:28 for people to have access to products that, you know,

7:31 were not necessarily at shelf when I was a consumer looking

7:35 for products and brands to support me and my hair journey.

7:38 So, at the same time while, you know, our consumers or our community,

7:43 we complain about like there's a lack of access,

7:46 but when brands like Mielle grows at the capacity and scale, you know,

7:50 we shouldn't be criticized for doing the very thing that, you know,

7:53 people complain about not having access to.

7:55 A million percent.

7:56 Listen, and I think there's two sides of this conversation, right?

7:59 Because what we're really talking about is,

8:01 on one hand, a lack of understanding, perhaps,

8:04 a lack of what it actually takes and the reasons that people are

8:09 able to buy and then have an exit like you, um, like you had.

8:14 And what I want to make sure that we do today is really

8:16 take people on a journey because it's so important to understand what you did,

8:21 when you did it, how you did it because you

8:23 are such a blueprint for so many people out there.

8:26 But by the same token, I really want to kind of dispel a few myths.

8:30 Um, and and that I think is is really,

8:33 really important because when you don't know better, you can't do better.

8:36 And one of the reasons that I even started

8:39 this show was really to lift the lid, right?

8:41 To be honest about what does it take to raise capital,

8:44 what do you need along the way,

8:46 what does it take to exit a business,

8:47 what happens on the other side of that exit.

8:49 So, we're going to talk about a lot of that today.

8:51 But if you don't know, if you've never done that before,

8:53 if you don't know anyone who's ever done it,

8:55 the kind of, uh, lack of understanding is what

8:58 I think most visibly showed itself after your exit.

9:02 It was really like more about worry, frustration, you know, it's like,

9:06 is is is what she's done going to like leave us and no longer belong to us.

9:11 And so, I think it's important to kind of like explore a little bit around that.

9:14 But before we do, we have to go back

9:17 to growing up in Chicago because your story is so wonderful,

9:20 and I wonder, like, what were you inspired by?

9:23 Like, who did you want to be?

9:24 Like, talk to me a little bit about little girl Monique.

9:28 Yeah, you know, that's interesting.

9:29 So, yes, I'm from Chicago, South Side to be exact.

9:32 Um, and I grew up and, you know, I had both of my parents in the household,

9:36 but, you know, I write about this in my book.

9:37 My dad, he did suffer with substance abuse, but he was there.

9:42 And you know, seeing his struggle and what he went through,

9:45 I feel like that gave me the motivating

9:49 factor and the determinant determination to, you know,

9:52 say I wanted to do something different.

9:54 And I And my dad passed away um in August, unfortunately.

9:58 Thank you.

9:59 And as I sit back and reflect,

10:01 I always tell myself like he went through the suffering

10:03 and the pain so that I can run and continue on his legacy.

10:07 So, you know, I [snorts] look at the bright side of, you know,

10:11 the life that he lived and the struggles that my mom had to endure

10:15 in order for her to support two kids on her own pretty much.

10:19 And she did the best that she could.

10:21 And she was really adamant about making sure

10:24 that her kids knew how to survive in this world.

10:28 So, I didn't grow up with the mentality of like,

10:31 I'm going to thrive in life, right?

10:32 Or I'm going to be like such and such when I grow up because quite frankly,

10:37 I didn't have examples of women that look like me that were,

10:41 you know, business owners or doing something amazing, you know,

10:44 operating in the boardrooms and and running businesses, right?

10:48 What were your goals and aspirations?

10:49 Do you even remember?

10:50 Yeah, of course.

10:51 So, my goals and aspirations was what I did 8

10:53 years before I started My EO because that's what I saw.

10:57 So, my mom, she worked at a hospital and she

10:59 was there for over 40 years before she retired.

11:01 And she would take me to This is when you could take kids to the hospital.

11:05 So, she would take me to work and you know,

11:07 I would see all of her nurse friends.

11:09 And my mom was very strategic in like putting

11:11 me in that position and giving me that exposure,

11:14 which is what was the best that she can do at that time.

11:17 And I saw all of her nurse friends and that was my my inspiration of like,

11:22 okay, I want to be a nurse.

11:23 Like I want to take care of people.

11:25 And so, she was very adamant about, you know,

11:29 if you do this and you become a nurse, it's recession proof.

11:32 You'll always have a job, you'll always have something to fall back on.

11:36 to give you a sense of security.

11:37 giving me like stability and, you know, survival.

11:40 So, that's what I saw and that was what I wanted to be.

11:43 And no aspiration to like own a business, run a business one day.

11:48 always been very independent and I've always been like a leader.

11:51 Like if we were playing house or, you know,

11:53 playing grocery store, I was the one that was always in charge.

11:56 My mom would also work weekends, so I would be at home by myself and it'll

12:01 be me and my brother and he's he's younger, so he'll be off doing his own thing,

12:04 but I would be I was bored and I

12:07 think that boredom is the birthplace of creativity.

12:09 So, in my mind, I would just sit there

12:11 and just create and imagine this lifestyle that I wanted.

12:14 So, I imagined the lifestyle that I wanted at a young age.

12:18 But didn't necessarily know that I wanted to be an entrepreneur.

12:22 I didn't like connect the dots, right?

12:24 Do you think about that now as like some kind of visualization?

12:27 Like do you even believe in that?

12:29 What What do you think it is?

12:30 Yeah, absolutely believe in, you know,

12:32 visualizing your future and one of my favorite Bible verses is,

12:36 "Write the vision and make it plain." So,

12:38 I'm a firm believer of like what you visualize and you pray on that and you

12:43 actually put the work in, you can bring your vision to fruition, right?

12:47 In your story and kind of I've known you

12:49 for a little while now and I know that this big turning

12:53 point came for you when you lost your son and it

12:56 feels to me that that was such a pivotal moment.

12:59 Do you mind talking about that a little bit

13:01 because I feel like that was some of like

13:02 the catalyst that what kind of gave you the impetus

13:05 to be able to start on this journey of entrepreneurialism?

13:09 Yeah, and I'll just, do you know, just back up a little bit.

13:12 As I was working as a nurse, you know,

13:14 I did that for eight years and as I talk about

13:16 like all of these things were like festering in my vision.

13:19 I never had the courage to like step out and just try something different.

13:24 You know, throughout my nursing career, I tried to do a lot of different things.

13:27 I went from direct sales, Mary Kay, Scentsy candles.

13:30 And so again, like that entrepreneurial book was always there, right?

13:34 Didn't quite define what it was at that time.

13:36 And I went through the tragic loss of my son

13:39 in 2013 when I was 8 months pregnant.

13:41 His name is Milan.

13:43 And I'm so sorry for you.

13:45 I feel like so many people listening

13:47 will understand that pain and and that devastation.

13:51 And I think that one of the reasons I wanted to touch on it

13:54 is because for you it was such a a kind of a pivotal moment.

13:57 A pivotal moment.

13:58 And so it's so incredible to watch who you are now and to understand

14:02 that that it kind of came and was born out of such unbelievable pain, no doubt.

14:06 Yeah.

14:07 Yeah, and that's how my L was created because,

14:10 you know, my son, he unfortunately passed away,

14:13 but I feel like his impact in my life and our family's life was

14:17 more impactful and he wasn't even here for a long time on this earth.

14:22 And my son allowed me to develop courage.

14:27 Because when you go through tragic things like that, you know,

14:31 it really causes you to like take a step back and do a lot of self-reflection.

14:35 And my pregnancy was high-risk.

14:36 It was also high-risk for my life.

14:38 And I'm like, look, you only get one shot at life.

14:41 And I no longer wanted to live life based on someone else's terms.

14:48 I no longer wanted to live my life based off of what my mom wanted for me.

14:54 And my son Milan also allowed me to gain a closer relationship with God.

15:01 And that's when the moment that was

15:03 so pivotal for me changed because even though

15:07 his his death was so dramatic and so

15:10 heartbreaking and so hurtful, but it was a gift.

15:13 And sometimes pain can come in a gift,

15:16 but the gift doesn't always come wrapped in shiny wrapping paper, right?

15:21 It can come ugly, messy, whatever, and we don't look at it in that moment

15:28 as like this is a gift that God has given me,

15:31 but I had to shift my narrative and and not ask God why me,

15:35 but what are you trying to show me from this?

15:38 And so the courage that I had to leave my nursing career,

15:43 no matter what everyone else was saying,

15:45 no matter how many times my mom begged me to continue to renew my license,

15:49 I had to like turn off the distractions,

15:51 ignore the noise, and say, "You know what?

15:54 This is for me." Yes.

15:56 Because this is my life.

15:57 This is not no one else's life,

15:59 and I have to do something that brings me joy and fulfillment,

16:02 and starting My EO gave me that creative outlet.

16:07 First of all, it's incredible that you

16:08 that you had this gift out of this tragedy,

16:10 came this courage, because so many of us can live with fear,

16:15 and we have these big ideas about our life and big

16:18 ideas about what it is that we want to do, but they stay kind of trapped.

16:23 And I feel like, you know,

16:23 I I've just written a book that and and one of the things

16:27 that I talk about is the emotions that hold you back,

16:31 and how being able to get out of that space

16:34 and get past fear is probably one of the most important things,

16:37 specifically for women, that we can do.

16:39 So, I want you to talk just a little bit more about

16:42 that, because one of the scariest things in the world is starting a business,

16:47 especially for somebody like you who has everybody

16:50 in the background telling you that that it's the wrong thing,

16:53 coming out of tragedy, but also like not knowing like what to do,

16:58 like what's the first step.

16:59 So, take me back to that original moment when you're like, "Okay,

17:03 I'm you know, I'm going to use this kind of literal God-given courage,

17:07 and I'm going to start this thing." Like,

17:09 what was going through your mind, and were you so so scared?

17:14 Yeah, and I think that's the misconception is that I

17:16 think people look at people like me and you and say, "Oh, they're fearless.

17:21 Like they're they're never scared to do anything." Like I'm I'm scared.

17:25 I'm scared right now, right?

17:26 [laughter] Like it's [clears throat]

17:28 We're always scared and and and that's the thing like you have

17:31 to do it despite being afraid and that's really what courage really is.

17:36 And even if you have like a little bit of courage, that's all it takes.

17:39 And so yeah, when I think back to starting and stepping out on faith,

17:43 I think my situation was also a little different

17:46 because the courage that I gained came from loss.

17:50 And so when you go through loss and when you go through tragic things in life,

17:54 you have the mentality, you have a different perspective on life.

17:57 Because my mentality at that time was, well, what else do I have to lose, right?

18:01 You know, I've already gone through like the most traumatic thing in my life.

18:06 Like You've gone through hell.

18:07 Yeah, like what [clears throat] what can happen from here?

18:10 I fail?

18:11 Like if I fail, then that's still not worse than what I've just gone through.

18:15 I also had the thought and mentality of like,

18:18 I don't care what anyone else says.

18:20 Like do you guys understand what I've just gone through?

18:22 Like you telling me that to be stable and to to stay

18:26 in my nursing career because it's safe and it it's job security.

18:30 It's not really job security if what I went

18:33 through couldn't save me from what I've gone through, right?

18:35 to change my mindset from a a spirit of lack to a spirit of abundance,

18:40 knowing that whatever I put out there in the world and I and I work for it,

18:44 I'm going to attract that, right?

18:46 You're going to attract I'm going to attract the abundance that I'm focused on.

18:49 Like when I when you focus on lack, what you focus on grows.

18:53 And I just had to shift my mindset and say

18:55 I'm not going to allow my circumstances to define my future.

18:58 I'm going to take hold of my future because I do feel

19:01 that I'm co-creating with God and we're going to create this together.

19:05 But it's an interesting way to look at it because and listen,

19:08 one of my favorite episodes we've ever done of this podcast is

19:11 with a guy called Rich Climan that talks about the chaos that he

19:15 had in his childhood and how that's actually benefited his career and what

19:19 he does and how he kind of moves through the world now.

19:22 And actually when you check it,

19:23 it's like he would never be able to do that job had

19:26 it not been for this sort of training and being forged in fire.

19:29 And I think so much about what you're what

19:31 you're talking about right now is very, very similar.

19:34 It's because of where you came from.

19:35 It's because of the things that happened to you

19:38 that you were able to kind of take this initial step.

19:40 And and I think one of the reasons you've been able

19:42 to be so successful because it gives you not just discipline,

19:46 but it gives you some distance of light

19:49 through which you can see things like really clearly.

19:51 So talk to me about those early days.

19:54 You make a decision in your head that you are going to start something.

19:58 Like what does it actually look like?

20:00 Yeah, so I actually started on social media.

20:02 Um it was 2014, so Instagram, actually it was 2013, I'm sorry.

20:06 And Instagram was just pictures.

20:08 And I remember scrolling on Instagram and seeing like

20:11 these girls with these beautiful luscious curls and you know,

20:14 I I have two girls and they were younger at the time and they

20:17 had beautiful luscious curls and I remember

20:19 like I used to have beautiful luscious curls.

20:21 What happened to my curls?

20:22 After like years of like straightening my hair and having so much heat damage,

20:26 I went on a mission to figure out how to restore my own curls.

20:30 But were you making products or you making just

20:32 stuff that goes on your hair at that time?

20:34 that goes like my intention was not to start a brand.

20:37 Like like this was really a You just out there on social media.

20:40 Yeah, I was trying to solve a problem for myself and I'll

20:42 tell you my initial idea was actually to create a hair salon.

20:47 Oh.

20:47 That was like before my ears.

20:49 So I was like I'm going to create

20:50 this hair salon and that evolved into now figuring out,

20:54 okay, how do you make these, you know,

20:56 different concoctions and so I started with food products and you know,

21:00 putting egg and mayo,

21:03 you know, the traditional what your grandmother tells you to like mix together.

21:07 And I realized that, you know,

21:08 I had one incident where I put egg in my hair, got in the hot shower,

21:13 the egg cooked in my hair,

21:15 and it was like so hard it was like crumbled egg like scrambled eggs in my hair.

21:18 And it was so hard to get out.

21:20 And so, I'm like, okay, this is this is clearly not the right thing to do.

21:24 And so, again, I'm very self-aware and I

21:27 knew that my level of expertise probably stops here,

21:30 but I knew that I understood like the science behind you know,

21:35 how to properly take care and maintain your hair.

21:37 So, I said, I want to find a chemist that can help, you know,

21:42 extract the ingredients that I have in my head

21:44 and help me create formulas that will actually work

21:48 and give me the benefits and the desires that I

21:50 want for my hair without eggs cooking in my hair.

21:53 Yeah, I mean, it's a it's a good way forward.

21:55 So, so at this point, okay, you're on social media.

21:58 Do you remember how many followers you had?

22:00 Like, did it start to like track?

22:02 No, I didn't get a lot of traction at first.

22:04 I think [clears throat] people confused as to like what I was doing.

22:08 Yeah, because most people that were following me,

22:10 they knew me as like a nurse, a mom, a wife.

22:13 And here I am posting these eggs concoctions

22:16 and showing the actual like demonstration and people like,

22:20 what like what I even got messages like, what are you doing?

22:22 My husband would even ask like, what are you doing?

22:24 What are you putting in your hair?

22:25 Like, he didn't even realize what I was doing at that point.

22:28 I don't even think I realized it.

22:30 And I said, I'm trying to create these products,

22:32 but I know that I'm not doing it right.

22:34 So, I want to find the right person to help me like create these formulas.

22:38 That's crazy.

22:39 So, you call a chemist and you start making product.

22:43 Well, it wasn't that easy.

22:44 Like, I had to call several different chemists and manufacturers.

22:49 you even get the Like, tell me Like, what did you do?

22:52 Because this is where people always end a story It's like,

22:55 so then I started, you know, canning the drinks.

22:57 Or then I started, you know, like whatever it is.

22:59 It's like, at point Like, where did you get the chemist details?

23:02 Like what was the first meeting?

23:03 How did you What did you pay them?

23:05 Like give me this early dirty information.

23:09 Yes, so I I found the chemist that I started working with on Google.

23:13 Okay.

23:13 So I would just Google like chemist manufacturing companies facilities.

23:18 And so I started with going to manufacturing facilities first.

23:22 Got it.

23:22 And that wasn't working because they all required high minimums.

23:27 Mhm.

23:28 And I couldn't afford that.

23:29 And so if you wanted to like create and formulate like one product,

23:33 the minimum would be like 10,000.

23:35 And as a new entrepreneur, I couldn't afford 10,000 just for one product.

23:38 And then I hadn't test the market,

23:40 so I really didn't know if this product was going to be a hit or not.

23:43 So I continued to Google, continued to like set meetings.

23:47 I was traveling to like California, Minnesota,

23:50 like the places that I knew that had like big

23:52 manufacturing facilities that were experts in hair care, textured hair.

23:57 So it can't just be like a regular manufacturer.

23:59 I knew exactly the industry that I wanted to work in.

24:02 And so I was fortunate enough like

24:04 after maybe calling 20 different chemists and manufacturers,

24:09 I was able to find a very small local chemist in Chicago that they

24:14 were also up and coming as well and they were looking to partner.

24:19 They wanted to stay behind the scenes and they

24:20 were looking to partner with someone that understood brand building.

24:23 Do you I didn't understand brand building.

24:26 you convince [laughter] them you understood brand building?

24:28 I didn't understand that one either.

24:31 No, but we they that they took a bet on me.

24:33 Like we took a bet on each other because

24:35 you And and you took a bet as well because what did you have to pay?

24:39 Like because again, you're on a nurse's salary at this point.

24:42 You got two small kids and a husband.

24:44 What did you even decide would be an okay amount to spend on this exploration?

24:49 Yeah, so here's what I did.

24:50 Um so they have very low minimums.

24:52 I think their minimums were probably like 50 at the time.

24:55 I can't I can't remember exactly right, you know, off the top of my head.

24:58 And their costs were very cheap.

25:00 So I'm thinking the price was maybe $3 per bottle at that time.

25:06 That was doable for me.

25:07 And they were willing to work with me.

25:09 So like I don't know if you Do you remember layaway?

25:12 We had layaway you know back in the day.

25:14 My mom used to go to the store and put her her whole order

25:17 Yes.

25:17 Shut [laughter] up.

25:19 That's amazing.

25:20 So like I would order my products of what I wanted to produce and formulate.

25:26 I would make a payment and then we would

25:27 make payment arrangements with them and say okay well,

25:30 you know, we get our paychecks on such and such day in two weeks.

25:33 We're going to pay the remaining balance and then you will ship us the order.

25:36 So it was kind of like everything was on layaway.

25:39 Even down to the website designer,

25:42 the graphic designer that we were working with.

25:44 We had to pay you know,

25:46 once we got paid and then pay balances like

25:49 when we got our paychecks in the next two weeks.

25:50 So it was literally like hand to mouth.

25:53 Yeah.

25:54 Fast forward a little bit to when you

25:55 start realizing like there starts to be some success.

25:58 Like when do you know and what is the moment of lift for you guys?

26:02 Yeah, so I would say there are a couple of defining moments.

26:05 One defining moment was the day that we launched which was May 23rd, 2014.

26:11 We literally sold out of every product that we had and I probably had maybe like

26:16 100 bottles and I thought that inventory amount

26:19 would last us for a good 6 months.

26:21 Sold out of everything, you know, immediately.

26:23 So that's when I knew that I was onto something.

26:26 Um my second defining moment was about a year and a half later.

26:30 We got our call to go into retail.

26:33 Which was Sally Beauty was our first retail partner.

26:36 And at that time I had realized and learned because

26:40 this is a new space for me, a new industry.

26:42 Mhm.

26:42 But I learned that there was never a new

26:45 brand that had only been in business for like

26:47 a year and a half that was having the opportunity

26:49 to enter into retail in the textured hair care space.

26:53 And so because I never focus on going into retail,

26:57 I really focus on just building.

26:59 And they came to me and that's when I knew that I had something

27:02 that people wanted to have a a piece

27:05 of because I was solely focused on building.

27:08 The saying that goes, you know, if you build it, they'll come.

27:11 That was literally like my

27:13 Yeah.

27:13 And and you were going to say there's one other moment.

27:15 Yeah, and then the other moment was when we actually launched into retail.

27:19 So we launched in Sally's and it and I know it

27:21 was a defining moment because I would never forget the date.

27:23 It was February 19th, um 2016 and we launched and we sold out.

27:30 We only They tested us in like 95 stores because that was

27:35 test.

27:34 Yeah, that's a big test.

27:36 But the demand grew so fast that when we

27:39 launched the day of, we sold out in 2 hours.

27:42 And when we had you know, our mavens,

27:44 our customers going, harassing the store managers and calling Sally's corporate,

27:49 demanding for Mielle to have more door count,

27:53 that was the other defining moment of like, yeah, I think we've struck gold.

27:58 You really did.

27:59 So you're 3 years into the brand at that point.

28:02 What did you [snorts] and your husband, who's the CEO of the company,

28:06 what did you guys have to give up?

28:09 Like I'm trying to understand the trade-offs because again,

28:11 you're both working regular jobs for all intents and purposes.

28:15 So to get you through that runway between this kind of small launch that you did

28:20 of 100 products through to retailers knocking

28:22 at your door and then the launch at Sally's,

28:25 like what did that take for you two to be able to get there?

28:28 Yeah, so one of the sacrifices was, you know,

28:31 we had we were used to two incomes.

28:33 You know, being a nurse,

28:34 I had a good salary and being an engineer, he had a great salary.

28:38 And going down from two incomes coming in the household

28:42 to one because at that point I had left my job.

28:45 So you decided I'm all in on this.

28:47 Yeah, I decided six months after I launched that you know, I decided to leave.

28:53 Fair.

28:54 There.

28:54 I mean it literally is life and death in your

28:56 Yeah, so I'm like my job is too serious for me to, you know,

29:00 try to sacrifice that.

29:02 So I decided to walk away from my job so I

29:05 can solely focus on my own because my own was consuming

29:08 so much of my time and my brain power because I

29:11 was always thinking and creating in my mind of how do we,

29:14 you know, attract new customers.

29:15 So for us that was the biggest sacrifice in the beginning

29:18 was leaving a steady job and narrowing it down to one income.

29:22 And then for my husband,

29:24 when he decided to leave because he still stayed on board for about a year

29:27 and a half cuz he's like I'm He really

29:29 thought that he was going to [laughter] you know, stay at He was working at UPS.

29:36 Yeah, he was like I'm staying here.

29:38 I'm going to climb the corporate ladder.

29:40 And he's like, you know, we'll have, you know,

29:42 my corporate career to to fall back on.

29:44 And he was working nights.

29:46 And it came to the point where like,

29:48 you know, we were sacrificing sleep and you know,

29:51 time with our kids and there was just no way that we

29:54 were able to like operate everything and still work corporate jobs.

29:59 So he finally decided that he was going to leave

30:02 and we were not paying ourselves at that time either.

30:05 So Wow.

30:06 So how did this actually impact your personal finances?

30:09 Oh, it was impacted a lot.

30:11 Like our personal we charged up credit cards.

30:15 We went into like credit card debt because we

30:17 still had to like maintain and um, you know,

30:20 we tapped into our 401K's because our 401K's

30:23 is kind of like what helps sustain us

30:26 and got us over and also helped fund a little bit of the business as well, too.

30:30 So we hung on that until we couldn't hang on for any more.

30:34 And then once we got the opportunity to go into retail,

30:37 we started to see a little bit of of profit from our e-commerce

30:41 platform uh because our margins were like great because you're it's all you.

30:47 You're not There's no middleman.

30:48 So, we were able to like use some

30:50 of those profits to kind of like sustain us as well,

30:53 too, until we got into retail.

30:55 So, when you get into retail, of course, they cut into your your profit margins,

30:59 and then that's when we, you know, got into trouble.

31:02 That's when you got into trouble.

31:03 Let's Let's talk about the trouble because before we get to the glory,

31:07 we know there's an ugly part.

31:08 The messy The messy middle.

31:10 That's the part.

31:10 When the naivety is kind of over.

31:12 So, talk to me about what that looks like because I think that, again,

31:16 we only see the really glossy part.

31:18 We look at you now, and, you know, incredibly successful family.

31:22 What did that time teach you?

31:25 And And what actually happened?

31:27 Like, how Because I'm assuming at this part point point,

31:30 Monique, you guys you're quitting your jobs.

31:33 You clearly know that there's something amazing here.

31:37 But at this point, you still don't

31:39 really have like advisers and people around you.

31:42 Like, you guys are making it up as you go along.

31:44 And when you make it up as you go along, you inevitably make mistakes.

31:48 So, what did that time look like for you guys?

31:50 Yeah, so, you know, we we had one

31:53 mentor at that time that we entered into retail,

31:56 which happened to be our sales broker.

31:58 Um so, she was helping to broker the deals in retail.

32:01 So, she was kind of like a guiding angel in the beginning

32:05 because she really helped educate us on the industry and retail distribution.

32:10 you find her?

32:11 So, funny story, we found her through one

32:16 of the beauty supply stores that we were selling at.

32:18 It was like a a smaller chain beauty supply,

32:21 and we were selling so quickly out of her store

32:24 that she was actually friends with our sales broker.

32:27 She said, "I see an opportunity for myself here."

32:29 "I see it." She said, "I see." And it No,

32:31 it really wasn't for her because once you go into retail,

32:33 it takes away from her business.

32:35 So, this was really just her genuinely wanting to help.

32:38 That's so nice.

32:39 And she said, "I have this sales broker that she understands like distribution,

32:43 Target, Sally's, Walmart's of the world.

32:45 She can really help get you into these chains." And, you know,

32:49 at the time I was I didn't know anything about retail.

32:53 So, I'm just like, "Okay, great.

32:54 Yeah, you know, people always talk a good

32:56 game." And this is sometimes how we get in our own way because I was blocking

33:01 that blessing because of my I'm childhood trauma.

33:06 Yeah, like just not trusting.

33:07 No, of course.

33:08 I understand.

33:08 I feel like we were all raised not to trust somebody.

33:10 Someone's coming to you with a big golden shiny thing.

33:13 I'm like, "What do you want?"

33:15 skeptical.

33:15 Yeah, you're like, "Okay, everybody can get me into retail at this point." So,

33:19 okay, long [clears throat] story short.

33:20 don't know how it works, right?

33:21 You don't even understand that to get into a Target,

33:23 to get into a Walmart that a broker is needed.

33:25 Like, you have no idea.

33:26 It wasn't even my goal at that time.

33:28 Like, I was like, "I'm going to go into retail year five." Yes, fair fair.

33:32 And so, she asked me about maybe two or three times,

33:36 "Have I" cuz she gave me Germaine's number,

33:38 and she's like, "Have you called her yet?

33:39 Have you reached out to her?" And I'm like, "No, not yet." So, finally,

33:43 my husband we're all on a call together,

33:45 and my husband's a an aggressive You've met my husband.

33:49 him.

33:49 He's an executor.

33:50 He's like, "We got to get stuff done." And he gets on the call.

33:53 He's like, "You haven't called this lady

33:54 that she's been telling you about." I'm like, "No, we'll we'll get around to it.

33:57 Like, we don't even know this lady.

33:59 Like, how do we know that she can do what she says she can do?" So,

34:02 my husband calls her, and she flew in right away.

34:06 She looked at our analytics on our back

34:09 end e-commerce and was blown away by our sales.

34:12 And she actually did what the lady said that she could do.

34:15 [laughter] And she was almost like a mentor for you in the early days.

34:18 she was like a mentor.

34:20 That So, she came on board after we, you know, got established.

34:23 her?

34:24 Was she your first hire?

34:26 So, from She was our first strategic hire.

34:29 Yes.

34:29 Yes.

34:30 Correct.

34:30 Mhm.

34:31 That's unbelievable.

34:32 Yeah.

34:32 All right, so what were the mistakes?

34:34 Because again, you you start to you're in Sally's,

34:37 you start to expand your retail footprint,

34:39 you're obviously selling through your own direct-to-consumer platforms.

34:43 When did it start to kind of go wrong?

34:45 Yeah, so it went wrong because I think it's important for any founder,

34:51 you got to know what's coming in and what's going out.

34:54 And even though like that's not it may not be your lane of expertise.

35:00 You got to find the right people that understand that space

35:04 and that are experts in that space and you know,

35:07 ask a lot of questions and do as much research

35:09 as you can to have a good set of understanding

35:13 of like a little bit about what they do

35:15 so they're not like just blowing smoke over you, right?

35:18 And that was the error that we made because we had,

35:22 you know, our accounting team that was, you know, doing our books as we went

35:26 into retail and didn't really understand the space.

35:30 Mhm.

35:30 So, you have what you call trade spend

35:32 in the retail space and then you have your marketing spend.

35:35 So, the accountant that was working on we didn't have a CFO.

35:38 We we had an accounting like firm.

35:41 They were um mixing our trade spend and our marketing spend together.

35:46 Woof.

35:46 So, we thought that we had more money

35:49 to spend in marketing than what we had because So,

35:52 you ended up really overspending in marketing.

35:54 We overspent like a lot.

35:57 Yeah.

35:57 Which whoops everything, right?

35:58 I think for anybody that's listening this idea

36:01 because you'll be acquiring customers really quickly,

36:03 but it means that everything that you're seeing isn't

36:05 really true because you're overspending to acquire a customer

36:08 and all of the sudden the whole thing like

36:10 all of your your data is out of whack, right?

36:13 data our books were trash.

36:15 And that's what's so difficult because again, I think in the early days, I mean,

36:19 I'm highly dyslexic and so the my first hire

36:23 is always an internal finance person because I don't

36:27 know what's happening unless that person is sitting right

36:29 next to me and and translating it for me,

36:31 because I don't see the numbers and I don't see

36:33 the patterns in the numbers as quickly as somebody else might do.

36:36 But, I think that when you outsource that financial,

36:39 you know, function in the beginning,

36:41 you lose um you lose touch with it a little bit, right?

36:45 It that that distance doesn't help.

36:46 You need it like close to you.

36:48 100% and that I mean, obviously we didn't know that.

36:51 No, you don't know what you don't know.

36:52 we were trusting this firm to manage our books and they were a firm.

36:56 So, not only were we clients,

36:58 but they had many other clients that they were managing as well.

37:00 So, you also lose that like touch of like being close to the business.

37:04 Like, they're only doing what they're, you know, what they're receiving,

37:07 but not digging deeper and asking further questions and not having relationships

37:11 with the retail partners and the marketing

37:14 um consultant team that we were working at.

37:16 So, they're not even being very thorough and you know, monitoring our spend.

37:20 So, that's why they ended up booking,

37:22 you know, trade spending and marketing together.

37:24 And so, you know, we realized that okay, shoot.

37:27 Now, we're in the hole and now where do we get funding from?

37:31 And so, our next step was we wanted to apply for a line of credit.

37:37 So, we ended up getting a line of credit from the bank and again,

37:41 we used our line of credit incorrectly as well, cuz we had a line of credit,

37:45 but we had the line of credit, but not having the right people to help

37:50 us understand and manage the line of credit, if that makes sense.

37:53 Yeah.

37:53 So, now the money that we were in the hole with marketing, we're still spending,

37:58 but we're spending and we're pulling from the line

38:00 of credit Which is costing you expensive money.

38:04 Yeah, I mean, it's like a it's a slippery slippery slope.

38:06 It's a slippery slope and and the line

38:08 of credit should have been used to hold inventory.

38:11 Yeah.

38:11 So, now we're strapped.

38:13 We have all of this great momentum and the marketing worked, right?

38:17 Everyone knew about the brand and the brand was like exploding on the outside.

38:22 But, it was costing us we were in the hole,

38:24 so when you lift up the hood and you look underneath you're like,

38:26 "Whoa, like this is not good.

38:28 not good.

38:29 Did Did you ever feel like giving up?

38:31 Like was there a moment where you were like,

38:34 "I don't know what I'm doing and I can't do this." Absolutely.

38:37 I felt like giving up at that point because when

38:40 we use our line of credit incorrectly, and you know this.

38:44 Now the banks my lifeline and then you're like, "Oh god, that's not working."

38:48 put our house up.

38:50 Yeah, so that's Oh my god, like literally I had like a sweat burst then.

38:54 Like literally that not Now you But the great

38:56 thing about it is I can laugh about it now.

38:59 [laughter] You're good, babe.

38:59 So you can laugh about it now.

39:01 At the time though, you're again young parents,

39:04 you've got this amazing opportunity and it

39:06 feels like it's slipping through your fingers.

39:08 Did nobody ever say to you like, "Don't put your house on the line?"

39:11 No, no one ever said that.

39:12 is so crazy because I remember like one

39:14 of my earliest lessons was don't use your home as collateral.

39:20 Which is which is so And And that And for us that was the only way

39:24 that we were able to get the line of credit.

39:28 Right.

39:27 Right.

39:27 We didn't have We didn't have assets for them to like lend against.

39:33 So our home was our collateral.

39:35 And so when the banks are knocking at your door and they're

39:39 calling your line due and they're threatening to take your home,

39:42 that's when I'm like, "Okay, I don't know if we're going to make it if you know,

39:47 if this business is going to sustain this." And that's how

39:52 you know like a good business can it sustain under pressure?

39:57 Can you sustain as a leader under pressure?

40:00 It's a huge sick note and a huge sign.

40:02 So how do you get out?

40:03 Like talk to me about what that looks like.

40:05 Yeah, so how So such a interesting story.

40:10 So my husband [clears throat] and I we

40:13 were pretty desperate and we were talking to different

40:18 investors and really just pitching our company because

40:20 the company was doing great on the outside.

40:23 were coming to you.

40:24 Consumers, not investors.

40:26 No, not investors.

40:27 We were pursuing investors because we needed We

40:30 were basically two three million dollars in the hole.

40:33 And as an investor, that's not necessarily attractive, right?

40:39 So we were, you know,

40:40 pitching the bright side and the upside of the country not country, company.

40:45 The future of like the what Mielle could be if you just believe

40:50 in us and believe in our vision and believe in us as people.

40:54 So we ended up talking to this one investment group

40:56 that were They were a newer investment friends and family group.

41:00 They also had experience in our industry.

41:03 So we felt some synergy there and we felt, oh,

41:06 like you guys know what we what we've gone through.

41:09 You know the mistakes that we've made.

41:11 Like you understand, you can feel our pain because you've been there.

41:14 And we went through We'll get there.

41:18 Oh, stop.

41:19 through at least six months of diligence with them.

41:23 And so they finally came back with an offer and they said, okay,

41:26 we're going to give you two million dollars, but we want 40% of your company.

41:30 Oh.

41:31 So But you didn't do that deal.

41:33 Absolutely not.

41:35 But here's But it wasn't because I had the knowledge to say,

41:39 no, I'm going to turn my back on this deal.

41:42 We We wanted to do the deal because we needed the money to sur- survive.

41:46 more than two million bucks.

41:47 So we needed more than two million dollars.

41:50 And for me, when they presented this deal,

41:52 it was something in my spirit that didn't sit right.

41:55 But it was like I'm fighting against my gut

41:57 feeling of not wanting to do this deal,

41:59 but I'm also fighting that we need the funds.

42:04 desperate.

42:03 And so they ended up backing out.

42:07 Thank God.

42:09 Because they said, this investment Yes, this investment is too risky.

42:13 We don't want to just pay for your debt.

42:15 We want to invest in growth and we're not They

42:19 shall remain nameless because I wonder how they feel now.

42:22 [laughter] [gasps] They know who they are.

42:23 They know who they are.

42:25 We know who they are.

42:26 Let's just say that.

42:27 But thank God you didn't do that deal cuz that is what

42:29 we call like really that would have been really cheap money for them.

42:33 Yeah, oh my gosh.

42:34 have been devastating for you,

42:36 so cheap and actually not even given you the runway to do

42:39 what you needed to do to get out of the hole.

42:41 And not just giving me the runway,

42:42 but also the expertise because I don't even feel like they were going to add

42:46 value for like the future of where we want this to go as a brand.

42:51 But this is really important Monique because again, when people take money,

42:55 often it's they go out and they raise in a moment of desperation, right?

42:58 I don't think your situation is particularly unusual.

43:01 And so that desperation really starts to cloud judgment.

43:04 I love that that female instinct kicked in for you and you were able to say

43:08 uh this is probably not right and you

43:10 procrastinated long enough that you actually put them off,

43:12 but people don't really understand what good money looks like.

43:17 So I'm assuming you eventually found it.

43:19 So maybe you can talk a little bit like that because

43:22 you at some point you did actually go out and raise money.

43:25 After that deal um went south and we did not try to force the deal back open,

43:31 you know, we said we're just going to have to figure it out.

43:34 And we went on a quest to talk to different investors.

43:37 So what happened was uh Richelieu Dennis,

43:40 who was the previous founder of Sundial Brands,

43:42 he sold Shea Moisture for like a billion dollars.

43:45 He started a fund called New Voices and his fund

43:48 was solely dedicated to investing in black women.

43:51 And so I remember I met him in 2015

43:53 and we always just remained friends and very cordial.

43:56 And I remember having a conversation with him a few years prior

43:59 to all of this investment fiasco when he sold and I said,

44:03 "Wow, like I want to do what you've done,

44:05 but I want to do it even better." Right?

44:07 And he's like, I got you.

44:09 Whenever you're ready, just like come and have our conversation.

44:11 So, I remember he said that, and I

44:13 called him up when we were looking for investors,

44:15 and you I'm like, hey, let's just have a meeting.

44:18 You know, we want to pitch to you.

44:19 We're looking for investors, and we pitched to him the same pitch that we

44:23 gave the previous investors that turned their back on us.

44:27 Um and when we gave our pitch, he like literally looked at us and laughed.

44:31 And he was like, your problem those problems are like been there, done that.

44:36 Like, he really understood to my point earlier, like he had built a brand.

44:41 So, like the problems that we were going through,

44:43 sometimes when you are going through things as an entrepreneur,

44:46 you think you're the only one that's going through that.

44:48 Yeah.

44:49 Right?

44:49 So, it's always refreshing to hear someone has gone through something similar,

44:53 and they have made it on the other side of that.

44:56 And he's like, look, you know,

44:57 let's have a conversation, you know, I'm interested in investing.

45:01 And comes to find out, this is how aligned the story is.

45:05 The banker that had been threatening us to take our home,

45:09 um our our loan was in workout at that time.

45:12 The workout guy happened to be college roommates with [laughter]

45:18 Like, I can't make this up.

45:19 He happened to be college roommates with New Voices head of investments.

45:25 And so, when we had a conversation with him,

45:26 he's like, I'm going to call so-and-so.

45:28 Like, my friend and tell him not to take your home.

45:31 Yeah.

45:31 Exactly.

45:31 You're like, please don't.

45:32 They know.

45:34 [laughter] He's like, I'm going to call them up.

45:35 That's my friend.

45:36 Like, I'll let him know we're investing in you guys.

45:39 Yeah.

45:40 Yeah.

45:40 Yeah.

45:40 You're going to come good on the loan.

45:43 was lifted off of us just from that conversation.

45:46 even imagine, but it shows you the strength of business relationships, right?

45:50 Because I always say, you never know where like the help is going to come from.

45:55 And so, you That's what you've got to be nice to people.

45:59 You've got to be nice to people,

46:00 and you've got to realize that actually your relationships

46:02 are going to be in the strangest places.

46:04 Like I've always made friends with the bank, with the factors,

46:07 with the people you know, it's like the less sexy people, right?

46:11 It's like at the end of the day when push comes to shove,

46:14 that's that's your network.

46:15 They're the ones who are making the decisions,

46:17 they're the ones who can really help you in a bind,

46:19 they're the ones that have seen it like all the way down to bankruptcy.

46:22 So they actually understand the unlocks, they understand the ways.

46:25 I mean, that's more of a relationship factor

46:27 that happens but it's like you need those people.

46:30 So, let's talk about it.

46:32 You take an investment.

46:33 Do you remember how much you raised at that point?

46:35 Yeah, so he gave us uh New Voices invested 5 million.

46:40 Okay.

46:40 For 10%.

46:42 Okay, so not two for 40.

46:44 Okay, [laughter] just saying.

46:47 Thank you very much, very decent.

46:48 you see like a difference and that's why like you know,

46:51 sometimes rejection is our protection because I

46:54 turned around and had an amazing better deal.

46:58 Not just on the monetary side but also

47:00 from an experience side and an infrastructure point

47:02 of view and it and somebody to guide you through what was going to happen next.

47:06 All right, Margo, we've got better stuff in your story.

47:08 So here's the thing, how many raises have you actually done for the company?

47:12 Yeah, so we did a raise, we did 5 million for 10% in 2020.

47:15 So we closed like right before COVID hit which is that's really scary.

47:19 Timing.

47:19 So in COVID we saw 4x growth because of that investment.

47:24 And then at that time I told my husband I said,

47:27 I think we should go for a raise.

47:30 Because we had gone through such of a struggle trying to raise

47:33 and I remember my CFO telling me at that time when we were struggling,

47:36 he said the best time to raise money is

47:38 when you don't need it because it gives you leverage.

47:40 So now we have 4x growth.

47:42 second, let's just rewind that for the people at home, right?

47:45 The best time because we spoke about the desperation moment.

47:48 That's when people can and will just take advantage of you.

47:51 It's when you don't need the money.

47:53 And you have leverage.

47:55 Yes.

47:56 And so, we became profitable, 4 x growth,

48:01 and I said we should do a raise, and he's like, "Are you sure?" I'm like,

48:03 "Yes, we're going to do a raise because, you know, at that point,

48:06 I started to see the trajectory of where I wanted to go,

48:08 and I knew that I wanted to have an exit, and you know,

48:12 having mentors like Richelieu and seeing like the process

48:15 that it took to have a successful exit,

48:17 I knew that I wanted to start with private equity to help increase my value." So

48:22 So, you're in learning mode the whole way through this journey, right?

48:25 And I think that that's really important

48:26 because even the way that you speak today,

48:28 it's like, "I knew I needed this." It's like, "I knew I wanted private equity.

48:31 I knew an exit was on the horizon." I knew like,

48:34 "So, what does that even look like for you?" Like,

48:37 "How and who did you learn from on the way up?" I study people.

48:41 So, there can be like a brand or a company

48:44 that I become super obsessed with, and I'll study.

48:47 I'll watch every interview that that person have done.

48:50 I read every book, every article that that person has done.

48:53 And, you know, I think I should share this in my book,

48:55 and I think I told Richelieu this, when he had

48:57 sold his brand Sundial to Unilever for like a billion six,

49:02 I put that on my vision board, and I put my husband and I face over that.

49:09 [laughter] I didn't do that.

49:09 I did.

49:11 Because I needed to see it.

49:12 I You're like, "I didn't have a real vision board.

49:14 I JUST LIKE, I'M I'm so serious about my visions,

49:18 and so, yes, I actually did that.

49:20 But that's a that's a skill, right?

49:22 Like, even when when you think about this idea, because again,

49:25 so many people struggle with finding a mentor,

49:28 and so many of us don't have access.

49:30 And so, I think that I'm very similar to you in the fact

49:33 that I made people my mentors who didn't even know about me.

49:37 In my head, and as a result, I'm going to read everything.

49:40 I'm going to be your stalker.

49:41 I'm going to watch every interview.

49:43 I'm going to watch the way you speak and the things that you've done,

49:46 and I'm going to like dissect them,

49:48 because that is a really important part of it when you don't have the access.

49:52 Yeah, and that's exactly what I did.

49:54 Like and I'm a very visual learner.

49:56 And so, yeah, like Rich was one

49:58 of my mentors because I studied his playbook and I

50:01 did have the opportunity to have access

50:03 and ask questions and utilize some of his resources.

50:07 And you know, I'm proud to say like, you know,

50:10 and humble enough to say like, I don't know everything.

50:12 But one thing I do know is I know how to ask a lot

50:14 of questions and sometimes if I don't know the right questions to ask,

50:17 sometimes the best thing for me to do is to just to sit and observe.

50:20 Yeah.

50:21 And watch everything.

50:22 You don't need to have an opinion on everything.

50:23 Like you don't have to be the loudest person in the room.

50:26 You just have to be humble enough to know like, okay,

50:28 what can I learn from each person in this room because

50:30 I don't want to be the smartest person in this room.

50:32 So he was an instrumental mentor.

50:36 He introduced us to his investment banker and that's

50:39 what positioned us to do our private equity raise.

50:41 That was a six-figure investment and you know,

50:44 at that time No, I'm sorry, not six-figure.

50:47 Nine figures.

50:48 Nine figures.

50:48 Oh, what?

50:49 Yeah.

50:50 I'm sorry.

50:50 I'm not thinking.

50:51 So wait a minute.

50:52 You did a nine-figure investment.

50:55 You went from raising five million to raising a nine-figure investment.

50:59 And please tell me at this point, are you taking some money off the table?

51:02 This is not all going straight into the business.

51:04 Yeah, so that was the great thing about

51:05 the leverage that we had was because, you know,

51:08 raising a nine-figure investment and it was so

51:10 powerful because I was the first African-American woman

51:14 in the textured hair care space to raise

51:15 that much and I still maintain majority ownership.

51:18 So I didn't even give away, you know, all of my ownership.

51:21 I still had a lot of leverage.

51:23 And because we were so profitable, Because you were so profitable.

51:27 Because we were so profitable.

51:29 It's like you had basically put money in the center of your plans.

51:33 You had built a profitable company and as a result,

51:36 you were able to go out and do a further raise

51:39 on your own terms and take some money off the table.

51:41 the table.

51:42 that's like the really like it the kind of important parts.

51:46 You take money off the table and you're

51:47 also increasing the value for your company.

51:50 Yeah, so none of the money that we

51:52 raised from Berkshire went to our balance sheet.

51:54 That was all secondary.

51:56 I mean, first of all, like what do you feel like in this moment?

51:59 Yeah, so um and you know what living in the original house?

52:03 Uh were we still You still live No,

52:05 so you've moved out of the house that was going to be taken up from you.

52:08 no, no, I'm sorry.

52:08 We were still in our original house.

52:10 That the house that they were trying to save, yes.

52:11 Okay, so you were still there and you get all this money.

52:14 What do you feel What do you do?

52:15 I felt like I deserved this.

52:18 Yeah.

52:18 You did.

52:19 Because I worked hard for this.

52:21 I went from the banks trying to take my house and threaten threatening

52:24 us for us to be homeless to now taking money off of the table.

52:28 That was pretty life-changing.

52:30 Like I felt like I worked hard for it and I earned it.

52:33 Well, that's because you did.

52:34 So, I'm glad you felt like that.

52:36 [laughter] And don't nobody tell you any other way.

52:38 No, no, no, no, no.

52:39 All right, we know that you work with your husband and so

52:41 I want to ask you a little bit about that because,

52:43 you know, I work with my husband, too.

52:45 And you're also a mother and we need to talk a little bit about that.

52:48 But on this business journey, you're you're now in this kind of beautiful

52:52 position where you've taken some money off the table.

52:54 You've de-risked what it is that you do and you've kind of paid

52:58 yourself for this like We forget that we sold to P&G 18 months later.

53:03 that That's [laughter] That's where I'm going.

53:05 I'm going there because that to me is like why you are sitting here.

53:11 P&G, for anyone who's sitting here thinking P&G,

53:13 P&G Procter& Gamble are one of one.

53:16 We talk about Unilever, we talk about Procter& Gamble.

53:18 It's like when you create a company in this space,

53:21 you are trying to sell it to one of a handful of people.

53:25 Procter& Gamble being the gold standard.

53:27 And so, I wonder what that looks like

53:30 for you because it is such an amazing moment,

53:34 but it's not an easy moment to transact with a Fortune 500 company like

53:39 that and thinking even what that means on the other side of your business.

53:42 So, can you just talk me through Yeah,

53:44 so when we decided to enter into a process to sell to P&G,

53:50 we again hired another investment banker that helped prepare,

53:54 you know, for, you know, what does a pitch deck look like, you know,

53:58 what do we need to do to get things in order,

53:59 how do we even pitch and have conversations

54:01 with these strategic companies to get them even interested.

54:04 The great thing about P&G was that they were interested.

54:07 They had been watching us for a very long time.

54:11 And that's why when I tell founders, when you are building a company,

54:15 always build it like someone is going to buy you.

54:18 All right, because you never know who's looking.

54:20 So, you have to operate like a Fortune 500 company.

54:23 us that She's giving us the gems [laughter] out here.

54:25 I'm not writing down.

54:27 Another reason that's the That's the pen and paper time.

54:29 It's like write it down.

54:30 Build the company Build the company like you are going to have it acquired,

54:35 even if that's not your goal.

54:36 And what What do you mean by that?

54:38 Like, talk to me about how you think about

54:40 building a company like somebody's going to buy it.

54:43 Yeah, infrastructure and like systems and processes,

54:47 you know, having the right people.

54:48 Like, we had to hire C-suites such as Yeah, such as, you know, a CMO.

54:54 Like, I mean, of course, like, I started the brand with marketing,

54:56 but I'm not I didn't go to school for marketing.

54:58 I'm not a marketing expert, but don't need to be a marketing expert

55:00 to build a five-year strategic marketing plan.

55:02 I mean, that, but Why would you?

55:04 I wanted to learn.

55:05 Like, the people that I hire,

55:07 I want to learn from the people that I bring on board.

55:10 A CFO was extremely important, right?

55:12 Because we have to make sure that with those little accountants.

55:15 That's the show.

55:15 We don't need no [laughter] more.

55:17 Uh so, we definitely had to have a CFO.

55:20 We had to have um a VP of operations.

55:23 Like, those were like some of the key hires because that was what helped build

55:27 our infrastructure and prepared us to be ready for when a P&G came on board.

55:32 We had to make sure that our manufacturing was solid,

55:34 and we had multiple manufacturers,

55:37 not just one, because you lose leverage again.

55:39 You can't, you know, put your manufacturers against each other to have the best

55:43 pricing so you can have the best profit for your company.

55:46 You know, what's most important when we decided

55:48 to partner with P&G is understanding like, you know,

55:51 does this company also support our vision and where

55:54 we want to grow as founders and as a company?

55:58 And, you know, do we have the opportunities to stay

56:00 on board to continue seeing the vision through and not just them.

56:05 to you because I think the one of the most

56:07 extraordinary things is that you remain the CEO Yes.

56:11 of your company.

56:12 this day.

56:12 Still to this day, which is bloody unusual when you go into a big conglomerate

56:17 like that because usually there's some lovely

56:19 Swiss man from P&G ready to be like,

56:22 "Thank you, Muneeb, and we'll see you later,

56:24 love." But I think that more often than not when you get acquired,

56:29 the original founder isn't always either fit for purpose or seen by the acquirer

56:34 as somebody that they want to stay on and stay in that position.

56:37 And so I think it's huge credit to you that that's the position that you're in.

56:41 And and and we should talk about that a little bit.

56:43 But I do love what you said about building

56:45 a company to be ready for a potential exit.

56:47 And that does take a different type

56:49 of discipline and a different type of self-awareness

56:51 and knowing that you don't know everything

56:54 and hiring people that have been there before,

56:57 that have more credibility, more experience, that, you know,

57:00 will be essentially friendly to that acquirer, right?

57:03 Because there's so much that people will look at in a business.

57:06 Yes, you have to have a profitable company.

57:09 Yes, you have to have a product pipeline that they believe in for the next,

57:12 you know, 5 years or whatever it is.

57:14 But they're also looking at what is the makeup of your company?

57:17 Who's in there?

57:18 Are we going to have to come into this thing and completely redo it?

57:21 Or is there a team that we can rely on to take it into the next few years?

57:25 Yeah, we had a well-oiled engine for them to come on board.

57:30 And, um, for them it was also them learning from us.

57:35 You know, I knew that for me to be a global brand like I wanted to have

57:41 people that had a track record in building

57:43 brands and maintaining their legacy and globalization, right?

57:47 And P&G had the infrastructure that I wanted Mielle to have, right?

57:52 And what P&G wanted from Mielle was the authenticity,

57:56 the brand equity, the the consumers, the innovation,

57:59 and the uniqueness that we brought to our community

58:02 that wasn't able to be replicated by anyone else.

58:05 And so it was a match made, you know, in heaven.

58:08 Like it was a great partnership.

58:09 So yes, when I came on board and when we sat at the table and negotiated,

58:14 yes, it was me that had the leverage that was able to negotiate and say,

58:19 I want to stay on as CEO because I want to see this vision until I'm

58:23 ready and feel like you guys have it and you can take it and run with it.

58:26 And they were okay with that because they saw value in what I was able to table.

58:31 There's so much power and leverage in negotiation and sitting

58:34 at the table and saying like this is how I want

58:37 my legacy to be continued and if you can't follow

58:41 and abide by this brand and the the magic that we've created,

58:44 then maybe you're not the right partner.

58:46 And is that what you did in the exactly what I did, yeah.

58:49 So give me an idea of some of those like hard lines for you.

58:52 What did you really want in that process and what

58:54 were you able to negotiate for yourself and the company?

58:57 So the first thing was I wanted to negotiate that I stayed on board as CEO.

59:01 There was no part of you that I actually I

59:03 just want to like buy a house in Jamaica and leave.

59:04 [laughter] I should have been gone and laid down.

59:07 There's an inner me like that is boring,

59:09 you know, I I need constant stimulation in my brain.

59:14 [laughter] Um and then the second thing was um I

59:16 negotiated for our formulas to stay the stay the same.

59:19 This is your famous protection clause that you negotiated.

59:22 Yes.

59:22 Yes.

59:22 And then for also our manufacturing to stay the same.

59:25 So we did not change our manufacturers as well either.

59:28 Um and there was no need to us it

59:30 wasn't broke like like we don't have to fix anything.

59:32 And then the third thing was kind of like

59:34 a mutual negotiation because I said to them,

59:37 "Okay, it's great that you want to acquire us,

59:40 but what can you do to support the community that has got me

59:43 here to this date?" And then they came back to us and said,

59:47 "I see that you guys are really passionate about your community.

59:49 You have this nonprofit Mielle Cares.

59:52 We are going to step up and donate $2

59:54 million to support your community for brown and black entrepreneurs.

59:57 I love that.

59:58 I mean, I I know you and your husband to the [clears throat] price, obviously.

1:00:01 Yeah, in in addition to the price.

1:00:02 [laughter] That as well.

1:00:04 And um I first of all, congratulations because I think that's so incredible

1:00:10 A for you to just share with everybody listening.

1:00:13 And also the fact that you were able to align it with your broader

1:00:17 goals as a family because I know that you guys are incredibly philanthropic.

1:00:21 Um and it is just amazing that you've been able to keep

1:00:24 that as a a kind of thread even even after the sale of the business.

1:00:28 Let's talk about what happened after

1:00:33 the acquisition because it wasn't all glory, right?

1:00:35 It's like so the investment bankers essentially do their job.

1:00:38 You the company is acquired by Procter& Gamble.

1:00:42 You do remain in as the CEO and I'm assuming you

1:00:45 were able to do the deal that you wanted to do.

1:00:48 Yes.

1:00:48 And then it kind of goes a little pear-shaped as we would say in England.

1:00:52 It goes a little sideways.

1:00:54 Yeah, I mean, and you know, it's I expected it like I understood

1:00:59 Yeah, absolutely.

1:01:00 Yeah, because I've I've seen like those that have gone before me and you know,

1:01:04 with them doing great things and the backlash.

1:01:06 So, I knew that it was coming, right?

1:01:09 And I said, "I'm going to try to prepare as much as I can and try to be

1:01:13 as transparent as I can with my community because

1:01:16 I do care about my community and I care

1:01:17 about educating and helping people understand like the why

1:01:21 behind this." And I really wanted people to understand

1:01:24 like this is not just a win for me but this is a win for all of us.

1:01:27 This is a win for women.

1:01:28 This is a win for black women.

1:01:30 You know, like less than what is a 1% of women receive venture capital funding?

1:01:35 Like so for us to have a step in this direction like this is

1:01:39 a win for all women entrepreneurs that are

1:01:40 trying to operate and scale their businesses.

1:01:43 And another reason why I wanted to partner with P&G was

1:01:46 because the people that were around the table making these decisions,

1:01:49 they were also people that look like me.

1:01:51 They had such a diverse group of people of C-suite executives

1:01:54 that were key decision makers that were advocating for P&G to purchase Mielle.

1:02:00 Like just as much as we need women entrepreneurs,

1:02:03 black women entrepreneurs in this space,

1:02:05 we also need people on the other side of the table that look

1:02:07 like us that can help tell our story for us when we're not present.

1:02:11 And that was something that was so important to me because I said,

1:02:14 "The next time when a black woman sits down

1:02:17 at the table or when my daughter sits at the table,

1:02:19 she's going to have a a better opportunity because

1:02:22 of the doors that I've set down and open

1:02:24 for her to make that path that much easier."

1:02:26 So that's why we have to celebrate it, right?

1:02:29 So I tried to do that but still, you know,

1:02:32 people attacked me, the criticism came and to be honest with you, really heavy.

1:02:37 It came heavy and Yeah, I mean, I think that this was a broader business story.

1:02:41 This This This then didn't become about, you know,

1:02:44 a black female founder that had done this unbelievable exit.

1:02:48 It really came a broader story about

1:02:51 a community that once supported you that essentially felt

1:02:55 like you were turning your back on them and as a result really came at you.

1:03:00 What do you think that we can do in terms

1:03:03 of broadening our communities understanding and what have you done?

1:03:07 Cuz I understand like and I don't mean this in a It's not

1:03:10 in a defensive way but I felt like you were having to defend yourself.

1:03:14 Yeah.

1:03:14 And you know, and it was easy for me to say, I was like, everyone.

1:03:18 Like, what is [laughter] what she apologizing for?

1:03:20 Well, I wouldn't say I was apologetic about

1:03:22 it um at all because, you know, again, like this is my conversations with God

1:03:29 and like this was something that I prayed on.

1:03:30 Like, I wanted this for me and my family and my community.

1:03:34 Um so, I'm going to stand 10 toes down that my decision was a great strategic

1:03:40 decision financially and strategically for me to ultimately

1:03:44 recognize the potential of the brand and my legacy.

1:03:47 So, I'm 100% certain in my decision on that.

1:03:51 I will say that I had to ignore social media for a while.

1:03:55 How long?

1:03:57 Um I would say at least for the first like 5 days.

1:04:00 Like, and even now, like I still don't like read

1:04:02 the comments because people still flutter in every now and then.

1:04:05 Um I think what was the most hurtful was when we got

1:04:08 a text for saying that our formulas changed and that they were causing,

1:04:12 you know, problems with consumers' hair because of the acquisition.

1:04:17 And you didn't make any formula changes?

1:04:19 not make any formula changes.

1:04:20 you didn't make any formula changes?

1:04:22 Yes.

1:04:22 No, we did not make any formula changes.

1:04:24 And so, that's why I'm like like this is coming out of left field.

1:04:29 Look, if we would have made formula changes,

1:04:31 just like I told you we were acquired, I would have been transparent and told

1:04:34 my community that we are changing the formula.

1:04:36 Do you feel like it was malicious?

1:04:38 Like people were coming out of the woodwork just to have another thing

1:04:41 to say to you and it wasn't necessarily the truth of what was happening?

1:04:45 I think the person that started that was being malicious.

1:04:48 You know, that's just my honest opinion, right?

1:04:51 are shaping they they come out on.

1:04:53 Now, granted, you know,

1:04:54 people do have issues with their hair and you know, I empathize with that.

1:04:59 Like, I understand that everyone uses products differently

1:05:02 and may have different effects from the products.

1:05:05 And I am here to help.

1:05:07 Like, I'm not here to like pile on and you know, add to the problem.

1:05:11 Like, people have to remember that I created this brand to create

1:05:15 a solution for people that look like me that are suffering with hair issues.

1:05:19 So, why would I pivot my foundation and what where I started from?

1:05:24 Like, that doesn't make any sense to me.

1:05:26 Well, not when it's been going so well.

1:05:28 And and Right?

1:05:29 It's different if things are going we say that again?

1:05:32 Like I mean, it's different when things are already going badly.

1:05:34 You're like, let me change this, but you're like, I'm on a roll.

1:05:37 Like, I just need to keep doing more of what I'm doing.

1:05:39 So, it's So, I I had I like I did a video and again,

1:05:43 I tried to be very transparent and explain

1:05:46 to people like our formulas have not changed.

1:05:48 We are still the same Mielle that people purchased before the acquisition.

1:05:52 And I'm not saying that women don't have hair issues or they didn't suffer,

1:05:57 but what I am saying is that I am very

1:05:59 transparent in our ingredient stories and I love what I do.

1:06:03 I use the products, my family use the products.

1:06:05 Like, there is nothing that I will ever

1:06:06 do to sacrifice the integrity of our ingredients,

1:06:10 nor will P&G ever do something like that.

1:06:13 Like, if anything, they have become more stringent in making

1:06:17 sure that we are delivering the best effective products and ingredients,

1:06:22 and everything for me has gotten better, not worse.

1:06:25 I I love that you say that.

1:06:26 Look, what I really think came out of that situation,

1:06:29 and I give you full credit for it,

1:06:31 is that there was a hell of a lot more understanding Yeah.

1:06:36 because of the messaging that you gave,

1:06:39 because of the conversations that were happening,

1:06:41 even the heated conversations that were happening.

1:06:43 So, I actually think out of that became came a new

1:06:46 level of understanding of what it takes to build a business,

1:06:49 what it means to raise capital,

1:06:51 what it means to have a big acquisition, what happens on the other side.

1:06:54 And so, I think actually what happened was net positive when you have hindsight.

1:06:59 Yeah.

1:06:59 Happy rather you than me.

1:07:01 Yeah.

1:07:02 [laughter] But, I do think that people have a much much much more

1:07:05 open mind to to understanding that that was actually a great thing.

1:07:09 And because of you, Monique, there's like literally like a gazillion little

1:07:14 girls that are out there and they go,

1:07:15 "Oh my goodness, I could do that." And they're putting me

1:07:17 on their on their vision board and cutting my face off.

1:07:20 Cutting your face off.

1:07:20 [laughter] Like absolutely.

1:07:21 Here's Here's hoping.

1:07:23 Um so, we're 3 years post-acquisition now.

1:07:26 Is that right?

1:07:27 Um do you feel like you have a lot to prove?

1:07:31 When you think about the brand, do you think that you've still that you're still

1:07:34 trusted and there's still something for you to prove?

1:07:36 Are you over that at this point?

1:07:38 Yeah, no.

1:07:38 I think that Mielle is still a very trusted brand.

1:07:41 I do feel that I'm still a very trusted founder.

1:07:44 Um because again, people know my character,

1:07:46 my integrity, and that's something that you can't fake.

1:07:49 No, you can't.

1:07:49 Um so, for me, I don't feel that I have to prove anything.

1:07:53 All I feel like I have to do is just keep putting

1:07:55 in the work and showing up with integrity when it matters most.

1:07:59 Yeah.

1:08:00 I want to talk to you a little bit

1:08:01 about the money cuz I feel like it's so important.

1:08:04 I wonder First of all, you you don't talk about how much money you make.

1:08:08 Do you Do you Do you talk Do you give us a number?

1:08:10 You don't hear it from my mouth.

1:08:13 Well, [laughter] here's what I heard from the people out on the streets.

1:08:16 It's a lot.

1:08:18 It's It's better and actually like I I mean,

1:08:21 [laughter] so the people that I know, they say it was like close to two,

1:08:25 not quite two billion, but like in that kind of region.

1:08:29 And she's just smiling at me right now.

1:08:30 So, we're just going to keep going.

1:08:32 Let me tell you something that I know.

1:08:33 I look at you and I'm like, Oh she's out here.

1:08:35 She's spending She's got a lot of money.

1:08:37 She's [laughter] got a lot of money.

1:08:37 Amazing.

1:08:38 I wanted to talk to you about your idea around money and how

1:08:42 you think about money right now because you live like a beautiful lifestyle,

1:08:45 quite rightly, and as you should.

1:08:47 I wonder has making all this money made you more disciplined

1:08:51 around spending money or are you just like comfortable spending bigger?

1:08:54 Yeah, my relationship with money is that I respect money.

1:08:57 Mhm.

1:08:58 Like I don't worship it, but I respect it.

1:09:00 And money has given me freedom and opportunity.

1:09:05 And I feel that money only amplifies who you truly are.

1:09:08 It just has allowed more doors and more things and more freedom that I can do.

1:09:13 And also for me what I really love the most is that my kids have the freedom

1:09:19 and a different lifestyle than I had growing

1:09:21 up and that is the most rewarding thing.

1:09:24 It's like they don't have to like figure out what they have

1:09:28 to do right now for a job and a career in their 20s.

1:09:32 My 20-year-old, she can like really explore and really

1:09:35 figure out what she's truly passionate about and it's

1:09:38 because of the hard work that I have done

1:09:40 and the lifestyle that I have created for them.

1:09:43 No doubt.

1:09:43 I mean that the ability to give your kids

1:09:45 a different life has to be so high on the list.

1:09:49 Do you have an investment strategy once you get all this money in the bank?

1:09:54 Yeah, I will tell you that the funny thing,

1:09:56 my husband and I was talking about this.

1:09:58 I didn't realize that actually managing wealth is a full-time job.

1:10:03 Oh yeah, do you remember that was our first ever conversation?

1:10:05 [laughter] Do you remember?

1:10:06 We had that conversation.

1:10:07 I was like, "Girl!" Like you really have to sit down

1:10:10 and have meetings with your teams and and be very strategic on like,

1:10:14 you know, where you're putting your money at in the market,

1:10:16 what investments you're investing in.

1:10:18 And like we're meeting with our team, you know,

1:10:21 they would like to meet with us weekly if they had it their way, but you know,

1:10:25 we meet with them monthly um just to make sure that we're

1:10:29 on the right trajectory and that our investments

1:10:31 are going in the right direction.

1:10:33 It's another job.

1:10:34 It is another job.

1:10:34 Are you involved in it?

1:10:36 Like are you the type of person that is like,

1:10:38 "I need to be across that?" So I'm involved and you know,

1:10:42 I'll be honest with you.

1:10:43 I use AI to help me understand like the language because I mean,

1:10:48 I'm not familiar with that.

1:10:49 So I always, you know,

1:10:50 ask a lot of questions and I tell my team like to explain this to me

1:10:54 like I'm a 5-year-old kindergarten so I can

1:10:56 like understand exactly like where our money is going.

1:10:59 Well, there's a mirroring from the early days of your business, right?

1:11:02 It's like you don't want to lose contact.

1:11:04 You don't want it happening over there.

1:11:06 close.

1:11:06 Yes.

1:11:07 with our team.

1:11:07 Stay close.

1:11:08 Yes.

1:11:08 Stay close.

1:11:08 Stay close.

1:11:09 We've learned our lesson.

1:11:10 You learned it.

1:11:11 You don't need No one needs to tell you twice.

1:11:12 No.

1:11:14 [laughter] Absolutely not.

1:11:14 I mean, that's insanity.

1:11:15 It is.

1:11:16 When you think about your kids now, you're raising like very wealthy children.

1:11:20 How are you encouraging and thinking about their relationship with money?

1:11:24 Yeah, well, I first tell my kids that like, you know,

1:11:27 we have worked very hard for you guys to have this lifestyle,

1:11:30 but I want you to remember by all means this is ours.

1:11:32 We work for this, and you have to go out and work for your own.

1:11:36 My youngest daughter, we came here,

1:11:37 we flew here commercial, and she has her friends here.

1:11:40 So, I put her and her friends in um in economy.

1:11:43 Just to like teach her a little lesson humble

1:11:44 you Some sometimes you got to keep them humble.

1:11:46 And then I sat in first class, and she's like,

1:11:49 you know, I don't want to sit in economy blah blah blah.

1:11:50 I said, I worked to be in this seat.

1:11:53 You still have to work to get to where I'm at.

1:11:55 So, I I want to keep my kids humble.

1:11:58 back of the plane.

1:11:59 get in the back of that plane, and you will be fine.

1:12:02 And I mean, of course, I do believe in rewarding them.

1:12:04 Like they they have been rewarded.

1:12:07 Like they fly private jets, and you know, they have a lifestyle,

1:12:10 but I always remind them and keep them humble.

1:12:13 Like, the only reason why you have this is

1:12:15 because of the work that we've put in.

1:12:17 So, in order for you to sustain this, what work are you going to do,

1:12:21 or what thing are you going to create so

1:12:24 you can sustain the lifestyle when you become older?

1:12:26 And so, my oldest she has, you know, her own career path that she set out on.

1:12:31 She's, you know, an amazing full-time content creator and college student.

1:12:36 And so, to see her like following my footsteps,

1:12:39 and like she has this like business,

1:12:41 and she's going to school for marketing, and you know,

1:12:44 because, you know, I am bored and I don't have a lot to do,

1:12:47 we started a new brand called Win Athletics, a a fitness facility.

1:12:52 And so, now she's my marketing assistant, so she's assisting with that.

1:12:56 So now we're building a whole new family business as well.

1:12:59 So I just want them to see like you

1:13:01 can create something in your mind and actually build it.

1:13:04 Well, then more than anything, they watched it as kids, right?

1:13:06 They saw it.

1:13:07 They saw it.

1:13:08 They saw it first hand.

1:13:10 They They would have felt the anxiety of when it wasn't working,

1:13:13 and they would have seen the upsides,

1:13:15 and they've seen their life change, and they knew their lives before.

1:13:18 And so I think when you watch your mom and dad get up every day and go to work,

1:13:22 like that's better than anything you can tell them.

1:13:24 Yeah, and so you have the first seat of like experience, like 101, seeing that

1:13:30 Just before we we ignore him completely because your husband

1:13:34 has been a huge part of the success of this brand,

1:13:36 and you still He's still the COO, and you're the CEO of the company.

1:13:41 What's that been like actually building this thing together?

1:13:45 Yeah, so I think that working with your husband can be your greatest strength,

1:13:50 but also your greatest challenge.

1:13:52 And for us, what works for us

1:13:54 is respecting each other's roles and communicating,

1:13:59 you know, always keeping God first,

1:14:01 and understanding that even though we may have disagreements,

1:14:05 arguments, or whatever, that is so minute compared to like

1:14:09 the vision and the legacy that we're creating.

1:14:11 So it's like once you focus on like the overall vision,

1:14:15 you can quickly come to a resolve after, you know,

1:14:18 you like get it out get it out, say what you need to say,

1:14:21 and like how do we figure and work this thing out?

1:14:24 And I think what's most important is that you

1:14:26 have to protect your relationship and your marriage,

1:14:29 and know that your business is an extension of your your relationship,

1:14:33 but you two are the foundation.

1:14:35 No, that I mean, it's so beautiful.

1:14:37 Every time I see you, you look so cute and happy together.

1:14:41 Like Yeah, he has to like He knows that I'm always right, so [laughter]

1:14:49 Um the company you're running today,

1:14:50 obviously it's very, very different from where you started.

1:14:53 I think you have about 300 people in the business, a lot of people.

1:14:57 What do you think about in terms

1:14:59 of your leadership style and what's had to change, especially post acquisition?

1:15:03 Has that been a steep learning curve?

1:15:05 So, it has been a steep learning curve because what

1:15:07 I realized even with the acquisition is that, you know,

1:15:10 not a lot of people are okay with change.

1:15:13 Um but I think that's the one thing that's inevitable is change.

1:15:17 Things are always going to change.

1:15:19 And for me, being a leader has become more about clarity and consistency even

1:15:25 under pressure and being able to show up for my team and still make

1:15:28 decisions when things are uncertain or when things look uncertain for my team

1:15:33 and still being able to empower them

1:15:34 to operate in their gifts and encourage them.

1:15:37 Um and and also being okay as a leader

1:15:40 that I may have encouraged you, empowered you,

1:15:44 and have taught you different skill sets and talents from working with Mylo,

1:15:47 and you may take those talents and gifts to another company,

1:15:50 and that may be a competitor.

1:15:52 And also being okay with that people may leave when they don't get it.

1:15:57 And you being okay and not cracking under pressure or not allowing your emotions

1:16:02 to distract you because when you build your company and you have people,

1:16:06 like it's like a family.

1:16:07 So, you do have some type of emotional connection with these people.

1:16:11 And unfortunately, like you can't manage and take ownership of those people.

1:16:16 So, I just try to empower them while they're

1:16:18 under my leadership um with the notion of like I've

1:16:21 given you the skills and tools that you need

1:16:24 to thrive in any other environment that you go in.

1:16:27 Um and not being led by emotions,

1:16:30 but being led by facts and being able to make sound decisions,

1:16:38 you know, when my mind is clear.

1:16:39 So, You've spoken a little bit about expanding the brand beyond What

1:16:44 does that of Mielle is to be not just a hair care company,

1:16:48 but tap into all aspects of beauty.

1:16:50 So, from skin care to body care, um being like an overall wellness brand

1:16:55 that focuses on a holistic approach to beauty.

1:16:58 So, more more exciting.

1:17:01 Like, we have some really exciting like skin care,

1:17:05 body care products that I'm super excited about that we've

1:17:07 been working on for the past like 2 years now.

1:17:09 So Do you still get as excited as in the beginning?

1:17:12 Like, what what is your part of the business that that gets you like,

1:17:15 you know, keeps you up at night and makes you excited for your job?

1:17:19 Yeah, so I'm like all things marketing and like creative.

1:17:22 So, I'm still very excited over like innovation and you know,

1:17:26 I I love that P&G has allowed me

1:17:29 to to still continue to lead that aspect of the business.

1:17:32 Do you feel like you have to keep saying to everyone, "Nothing has changed"?

1:17:37 I did at one point, but I no longer do because, you know,

1:17:40 the thing is like people people that are set in their ways

1:17:44 that are going to misunderstand you no matter what you say,

1:17:47 no matter what you try to do to prove,

1:17:49 no matter if you like take them to the lab

1:17:52 and see where you source ingredients and so they will still say,

1:17:56 "But, it wasn't like that last year." [laughter]

1:17:59 Or you're missing angry Like, they're they're still going to say that.

1:18:01 So, I'm like I I'm no longer addressing it.

1:18:05 Like, it is That can't be your job.

1:18:06 You have You have to do like use my energy in places that really matter.

1:18:11 Yeah, you do.

1:18:12 What kind of impact do you hope your success has for other founders?

1:18:16 I want the little girl in me that was

1:18:22 hoping and wishing for someone that looked like me

1:18:25 to just give them inspiration and to light

1:18:27 a fire inside of them to say, "You know what?

1:18:29 You know, you have a dream and you can go out there and accomplish your dreams.

1:18:33 You can go out there and be a world

1:18:36 changer and create something and innovate and do something

1:18:41 magnificent that the community and the people that are

1:18:44 assigned to your destiny is going to thank you for.

1:18:46 I feel like you're no doubt doing that.

1:18:48 I hope so.

1:18:49 Absolutely you are.

1:18:51 What do you still aspire to?

1:18:52 I still aspire to be disruptive.

1:18:57 And to challenge myself to tackle and enter

1:19:01 into spaces that may be deemed impossible.

1:19:05 And so I aspire to disrupt the fitness

1:19:08 industry with our new brand, Win Athletics.

1:19:11 Oh yes, I love [laughter] that answer.

1:19:14 All right, I'm going to take you to some rapid fire.

1:19:16 I'm the worst at rapid fire because as everyone knows I'm so long-winded,

1:19:20 so we'll see how rapid they are.

1:19:22 All right, rapid fire questions.

1:19:25 Okay.

1:19:25 All right, what is one hair product that you never travel without?

1:19:29 My rosemary mint oil.

1:19:31 What's something you never feel guilty about spending money on?

1:19:34 I never feel guilty about spending money on my kids.

1:19:39 [laughter] Are you a morning person or a night owl?

1:19:41 I am definitely a morning person.

1:19:43 What time you up in the morning?

1:19:44 I am up at like 6:00 a.m.

1:19:45 Yes, I know you do.

1:19:46 Yeah.

1:19:47 What is a book that changed your life?

1:19:49 A book that's changed my life is honestly the Bible.

1:19:54 That'll change.

1:19:55 Yeah, the book of Proverbs, a book of wisdom.

1:19:58 Amazing.

1:19:59 Thank you, my darling.

1:20:00 This is heavenly.

1:20:01 Yeah, thank you.

1:20:02 You're [laughter] so great.

1:20:04 Thanks for joining me on the Aspire Podcast.

1:20:06 For more strategies on [music] how to build the life of your dreams,

1:20:09 be sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel.

1:20:42 [music] [music] Oh.