Live from SXSW London: Michelle & Craig on Career Changes, Purpose & Taking Risks | IMO

0:00 Bravery makes you brave to try anything at any age.

0:03 And I think for me, I've just gotten used to, okay, we're gonna do this.

0:09 I mean, I lived in the White House.

0:10 I was a First Lady.

0:11 That wasn't my plan.

0:13 I had no training for that.

0:16 Wasn't my idea.

0:19 Was not.

0:20 But we figured it out.

0:22 Figured, if I can be First Lady, I can do a podcast with my brother.

0:35 This episode of IMO is brought to you by Progressive Insurance.

0:40 Hello, South by Southwest London, how y'all doing?

0:48 We are thrilled to be here with all of you.

0:52 A little over a year ago, we launched our podcast.

0:55 I am old with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson, my big brother.

0:59 If you had me, but we launched it in South by South West Austin.

1:04 And that was also the first time we did a live event.

1:08 And we had so much fun, we thought we'd do it again here in London,

1:14 but just to give you a sense of IMO,

1:16 what we do, it provides a space for vulnerable

1:20 and revealing conversations with some pretty amazing guests,

1:25 some of whom are friends of mine.

1:27 Mostly her friends.

1:30 And we talk about everything, love, friendship,

1:33 family, careers, you name it, we've been there.

1:37 And we hope that by sharing our stories and experiences,

1:40 we might help someone facing similar challenges or at the very

1:46 least to give folks a little boost throughout their day.

1:52 And there aren't always clear answers.

1:54 One of the things we say is that there's

1:57 no one way to live this thing called life,

1:59 but one thing that we do believe strongly is that connections can help.

2:06 And that's really why we started Higher Ground Production,

2:09 me and the guy Barack Obama.

2:12 You've heard of him, my husband.

2:14 We wanted to build a platform of programming that brings people together

2:19 to explore different ideas and perspectives on how to get through life.

2:25 And we are incredibly excited by several new

2:29 podcasts that are joining the Higher Ground family.

2:32 Talk Easy, which is a cool program,

2:35 let me say this, two young sisters talking about culture,

2:39 stories from a stranger, just to name a few,

2:42 shows that lift up a range of new voices and new

2:46 ideas and hopefully help people feel just a little at the slowly.

2:51 So today, Craig and I are gonna try something a little different.

2:56 We usually have a guest, but we cut them out of the action.

3:01 So we're gonna flip this script and we're going to interview each other.

3:07 You should be frightened.

3:10 So, I'm not frightened, of course.

3:15 But what do you guys think of that?

3:17 Just me and him talking.

3:22 But first of all, Craig Robinson, how are you doing?

3:25 I'm doing really, really well.

3:27 I have not seen you in a couple of weeks talk to you.

3:29 I know, I know.

3:30 So part of the, so one of the fun things

3:34 about doing this podcast is if we get to spend

3:36 a lot of time together and we used to only

3:40 talk to each other on the phone because we

3:42 lived far apart and now we see each other

3:45 all the time but don't on the phone because we're

3:47 like let's save that for the show But for anyone

3:51 who's read any of my books or heard me speak,

3:55 I talk a lot about the power of swerving through life and careers,

4:00 being able to remain flexible and open to changes.

4:05 And I learned a lot of sverving from my husband.

4:08 He has set me off on a path where I've had to adjust.

4:13 So he was my first swerve teacher, but one of my best role models in swervin'.

4:18 Is my big brother, Craig, because his career path,

4:22 as well as mine, is anything but traditional.

4:26 We've done a lot of swerving throughout our lives,

4:29 and so we're gonna talk about how we got where we are,

4:34 because that's one of the questions that we get often

4:36 from people who are trying to figure out their careers,

4:39 who are tryin' to figure our life, and a lot o' them are wondering,

4:42 how did you guys get from the south side of Chicago,

4:44 from a working class background?

4:47 To sitting here and doing all the things

4:49 that we've done over the course of our lives.

4:53 So Craig, I wanna start with you.

4:54 Okay.

4:56 Just so that people get a little sense of your career trajectory,

5:00 can you give folks a brief sense of what

5:03 you've been doing in life to this point?

5:06 I will.

5:08 First of all, thank you all for being here.

5:12 It's really exciting to be here and you

5:14 should know I used to live in Manchester.

5:18 How about that?

5:20 Yes.

5:21 I played basketball for what was then called the Manchester Giants.

5:25 It was the start of my pro career and the real beginning to the swerve,

5:29 because when I was in college...

5:32 I'm old enough where I didn't go to college to be a basketball player.

5:36 I enjoy playing, but I never thought I could be a professional.

5:39 And then I got drafted by the Philadelphia 76ers.

5:43 And next thing you know, I was trying out for that team.

5:45 And when I got cut from that team, I came to Manchester and played.

5:50 And I stayed, I lived in Manchester for two seasons.

5:54 We came to visit one year, that was my first trip to England.

5:58 Yeah, that was your first trip to England.

6:00 And then while I was here, our team did pretty well.

6:05 And I thought, you know, I could be a basketball coach.

6:09 And I went back to visit Miesch at Princeton and to see my old basketball coach,

6:16 and I said to him, coach, I figured out what I wanna do.

6:20 And I said, I wanna be a coach.

6:22 And he was like, you don't wanna be coach.

6:24 I'll tell you when to be a Coach.

6:27 Go get a job somewhere and coach later.

6:30 And that's when I started my trip into finance

6:34 and I've worked in finance investment banking for quite some time.

6:39 And then after 14 years, I switched back into coaching.

6:42 That's when started my coaching career.

6:44 And I did that for another 14 or so years.

6:47 And then I worked in the NBA in the front office,

6:51 the National Basketball Association.

6:54 And I Did that for.

6:55 About five years and then now I work at the Coaches Association

7:01 as well as I'm a podcast host now so that's a lot of swerving.

7:07 It's a lot.

7:07 It's lot.

7:09 How did you think about who you wanted to be when you grew up?

7:15 How did process it?

7:17 What kinds of things did you thing about?

7:19 So I processed it by the people and things I was around.

7:25 So my early role models were my parents, my mom and my dad.

7:29 My mom was a housewife, and my Dad worked for the city of Chicago.

7:33 And then the other people around me were uncles and aunts,

7:37 and they worked as policemen, city workers, educators.

7:45 So I always thought that that would be what I'd end up.

7:49 Doing.

7:51 Because that's one of the things about figuring out who you want to be.

7:55 You know, there's no way we're taught that, you know.

8:00 We just start making up things out of thin air.

8:03 I know I used to say when I was 10 years old that I wanted to be a pediatrician.

8:09 But that's because I like kids.

8:10 I mean, you base things off of things like that.

8:14 And then when I wasn't Princeton and I had to figure out what to do next,

8:18 I was like, I don't like math.

8:21 I read, I like to talk a lot, so I'll apply to law school.

8:25 I mean, that's how I picked going to law school

8:28 because there's really no way that we teach young people,

8:32 you know, as they're growing up.

8:34 Well, certainly not.

8:35 How to think about it.

8:36 Not 40 years ago, 40 years.

8:38 We're old, y'all.

8:40 40 years ago, it was sort of go to college.

8:43 And then most of our parents and friends of parents didn't go to school.

8:50 So it was like go to a college and get a better job than what we got.

8:54 And that's sort of what we did.

8:57 But Mish, you've had your share of transitions.

9:04 Can you tell the folks what you learned from your transitions?

9:09 Well, you know, did some, I tried to do the traditional checking the box thing,

9:16 because I was good at that, you know.

9:17 I was a good student.

9:19 I understood that if you got good grades, you went to college, from college,

9:23 if you don't know what you're doing,

9:25 you go to grad school, and I could check the boxes.

9:28 I was good at that.

9:29 I could achieve in that way.

9:33 But if that wasn't enough, because but I didn't have any experiences, you know?

9:39 I mean, I had.

9:39 Summer jobs, babysat, did all that sort of stuff.

9:43 But when I got to the law firm, and I worked at a big corporate firm in Chicago,

9:49 what you were supposed to do after Harvard Law School.

9:52 And I got that firm, great firm, and I realized, oh my god, I don't like law.

10:00 I don't like it at all.

10:01 It wasn't even close.

10:03 And thank you to all the lawyers.

10:05 I mean.

10:06 No shade, but it just wasn't for me.

10:09 And I realized I didn't know anything about the law.

10:12 I didn't have parents in the law,

10:14 I'd never clerked, only in my summer associate experiences,

10:20 but that was very different because they were courting

10:23 you during that time and not giving you real work.

10:26 So one of the things that I learned through the transition

10:29 is that gaining experiences are more important than I thought they were.

10:34 Because back then in college, we just went straight through.

10:38 And now I know that I encouraged Malia and Sasha,

10:41 and I encourage a lot of young people, do not go straight through,

10:45 don't be afraid to slow it down and have some experiences.

10:50 If I were to do it again from college to law school or grad school,

10:55 I would have done a gap year or two.

10:58 And you were kind of leading the way.

11:00 I mean.

11:01 Quite frankly, your time in Manchester playing European Pro

11:06 Ball was kind of like a really cool gap year,

11:10 where you got some experiences just being out

11:13 in the world and working and learning about what you liked,

11:17 what you were good at, not just what you were able to do well,

11:22 because that's all I did.

11:24 I just pursued something that I could do well.

11:27 And I didn't know anything about passion or.

11:30 Purpose or and the truth is I didn't

11:33 know what other careers were out there other

11:35 than the traditional careers You know you grew up you can be a doctor you can,

11:40 be a lawyer you can Be an engineer they're like six things and here

11:44 i'm at princeton harvard and in my mind i only know Six things i can,

11:49 beat and i think a lot of young people are limited Because you got to get out

11:54 in the world to see what else is out

11:56 there so that's one thing i learned And was.

12:01 Your decision to go pro, scary for you.

12:08 I mean, because here you were at Princeton and there's the pressure,

12:12 especially in your class, your year.

12:14 We graduated, you were 83, I was 85.

12:18 Economically, the country was doing great, you know,

12:21 and if you got out of college,

12:23 a good school with a degree, you were gonna make money.

12:26 You could pretty much write your own ticket,

12:29 which I know it's not the same now, at least where we live in our country.

12:35 Was it scary for you to sort of see your peers going into finance

12:41 and all those things while you were going

12:45 to take this interesting leap into professional basketball,

12:49 and how did you think about that decision?

12:51 So probably not how most of you think I would

12:56 have thought about it because it was scarier for mom.

13:02 Heart, my mom.

13:03 Our mom was like why on earth would you go all the way over there to play just

13:08 to play basketball and it wasn't scary for me

13:12 because as I progressed in the sport and got better

13:17 it was a dream that oh okay maybe I

13:20 can play professionally so I wanted to go try

13:23 it and it's a tribute to my parents that they

13:29 never held us back because of their own fear.

13:34 So as scared as my mom was, they both were like,

13:38 all right, go and do it, now's the time to do it.

13:42 So it was not a hard decision for me to make at that time.

13:53 Secondly, because mom and dad encouraged us to go to a place like Princeton

13:59 as opposed to go on some place else where you could get a good education.

14:04 My dad always emphasized that one of the things you get

14:10 from a good education are options and the ability to try things,

14:17 which he didn't get a chance to do.

14:20 When you're a black man from the south side

14:22 of Chicago growing up in the 50s and the 60s, you got the post office, the army,

14:29 you have certain things that you're allowed to do,

14:33 you don't get to travel to be a basketball

14:37 player or work at Morgan Stanley or some other bank.

14:42 So I felt really comfortable and it helped that I

14:48 came to England where everybody spoke English just about.

14:53 And really, really friendly.

14:57 Really friendly.

14:58 So I have to mention that.

15:06 This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance,

15:09 a company committed to helping people move forward and live fully.

15:14 Mish, I've been thinking about how overwhelming big life decisions

15:18 can feel these days between the endless stream of information,

15:23 social media, and that constant FOMO the kids talk about.

15:27 Do you feel like people are overthinking things more than they used to, or is

15:32 it just harder to make a choice when we have so many options?

15:35 No, I think it's a little bit of both.

15:38 I think with so much information coming

15:40 in, we just have so much more to process.

15:44 And there's only so much the human brain can take in.

15:49 And then, yeah, we feel inundated with choices.

15:52 We feel like there are too many options.

15:55 So yeah, I agree.

15:56 I think there's a bit of a both.

15:57 I feel that, I feel with your public image,

16:00 how do you tune all that out and actually make the big calls?

16:05 Are you relying on a gut feeling or is

16:07 it more about leaning on the people you trust?

16:10 Well, there's a lot of gut that goes into it.

16:13 You just get used to making hard decisions.

16:16 You start to trust your instincts, but most importantly is having a strong team.

16:23 Learning to let go, that I can't make

16:26 every big decision by myself and I shouldn't.

16:30 So I surround myself with really smart people that I could count on.

16:34 I let go of a lot and trust that they're going to.

16:39 Know, do their job and bring me the information that I need to do my job.

16:43 So I've just learned that it's, you know,

16:46 it's no victory for me to do these things alone,

16:49 making these big decisions alone.

16:51 As the kids say, facts.

16:54 For me, knowing I have a solid circle to talk

16:57 things through is usually what helps me get clarity.

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18:15 I have to, we have to take a moment and just give tribute to our parents.

18:21 You know, they're, they were uniquely gifted in pushing

18:28 us to do things that they wouldn't do themselves.

18:31 And sometimes, you know, we're parents now,

18:33 and you know the hardest thing in the world

18:35 to do is to let your kids try hard things.

18:39 You know, I think a lot of...

18:41 People wind up picking careers because they feel the pressure

18:45 of parents wanting them to do something that feels safe and secure.

18:50 A story that I tell often is during the Becoming Book Tour.

18:55 I would do a lot of things in colleges and I was sitting with a set

18:59 of seniors who were graduating from Spelman College

19:02 at a historically black school in the south in Atlanta.

19:06 And this group of girls, they were about to graduate,

19:09 they were excited but incredibly frightened about the next

19:13 step because they were sort of like me.

19:15 They had box checked their way to a college degree and now once they were done,

19:22 because you don't learn this, is that once

19:24 you get through with the box checking, the things you're supposed to do,

19:27 you're still faced with figuring your life out.

19:30 And nobody kind of told them that.

19:33 So they, like many young people,

19:35 hit senior year and it's like, how do I figure this out?

19:38 And this one-year girl said, my father wants me to go to law school.

19:42 And she's like but I just don't want to go.

19:44 And she was in tears because her father,

19:46 who was probably like our dad, just wanted her to be safe.

19:51 He didn't know that a law degree cost $70,000 a year.

19:56 So he didn't realize that she was gonna come out of that degree.

20:00 With so much debt that she would be limited in making choices about

20:05 what she wanted to do because she'd have to pay down that debt.

20:09 And so I explained to her, your dad wants the best for you because he's scared,

20:13 but he has no idea what you're facing

20:16 because we don't know what our kids are facing.

20:20 We, being us, we still can't relate

20:23 to what our sons and daughters are gonna face.

20:25 It's a different market.

20:26 It's different situation.

20:28 And so I find even with my girls today that I have to step

20:32 back and not try to push them to where I want them to go.

20:36 I have the trust that they know their own market and can make certain decisions.

20:41 Our parents were way ahead of the curve on that.

20:44 And I say that because I know that there are

20:47 kids who are trying to follow the dreams of their parents,

20:53 sometimes to their own detriment.

20:55 There are parents out there that are really trying to push

20:58 their kids to do a certain thing because it feels safe,

21:01 and part of life, part of this thing called life,

21:05 is creating the optionality, getting the best foundation you can get,

21:13 which we both did by going to good schools,

21:16 and then developing some skills along the way.

21:20 I mean, I didn't regret going to law school because it taught me how to write,

21:24 how to think, how to communicate.

21:27 It gave me a level of confidence to just be

21:29 able to go in any place and figure anything out, right?

21:32 Those are the skills that were more important to everything that I

21:36 do in the years ahead than simply just learning the black letter law.

21:44 So I think that our parents unknowingly,

21:49 probably more knowingly, they kind of knew that.

21:52 And so they let us.

21:55 They let us try hard things.

21:57 And let me tell you, when you've been working at a corporate law firm,

22:01 where I started working at Sidley and Austin,

22:04 I was making more money than both mom and dad combined.

22:08 So you imagine how they felt when I walked up to them to say, hey.

22:15 I don't like this career.

22:17 Doesn't give me passion and purpose.

22:20 And I'm gonna leave and do something else, right?

22:26 And to have them both say, all right, we trust you, give it a try.

22:31 Well, let me just say a couple of things.

22:34 One, she didn't learn how to think at law school.

22:38 She could always think.

22:39 Oh, thank you, little boy.

22:43 She has been this personality since she was three or four years old, so, um,

22:51 and she didn't learn how to write there either because you all should know

22:57 that my little sister used to write

23:00 these wonderful short stories that entertained our family.

23:03 And you think I'm talking about like Jane ran to the market.

23:08 No, these were intricate stories.

23:11 That were mysteries and funny and filled with livelihood.

23:17 So she's being a little bit modest, but.

23:20 Well, Harvard did teach me something.

23:22 It didn't teach you that much.

23:24 Didn't teach it that much, so how would you say our parents prepared us to be

23:35 brave enough to do the kinds of things that you're talking about?

23:40 I always, you know, I think about the fact that they taught

23:46 us how to think for ourselves early and to own our lives early.

23:52 And by early, I do mean four and five.

23:55 I mean, I talk about this.

23:57 Our mother, once we started kindergarten,

23:59 gave us alarm clocks and said, this is how you work it.

24:04 You're in school now.

24:06 It's your education, not mine.

24:07 This is kindergarten, y'all.

24:10 And she's like, you know, learn to wake yourself up because no one should have

24:17 to wrestle you out of bed to build your own life.

24:22 That was day one.

24:23 And it wasn't like we were shocked or scared.

24:26 We were like, yeah, give me the alarm clock.

24:29 Yeah, look at us.

24:30 You know, so.

24:32 A lot of what Mom and Dad did was

24:35 hand us our lives early in appropriate ways, right?

24:39 It wasn't like my mom was asleep in bed while we were going to school, you know.

24:44 She was up, but she wasn't gonna come and be like, you awake, you awake.

24:48 She'd wake for that alarm, and it's like, okay, let's see how you do it.

24:52 And then she sent me off to kindergarten by myself around the corner.

24:56 I was like, lady, I'm five.

24:59 Audience laughter She's like, you can do it,

25:03 but the beauty of our parents handing us our lives,

25:08 it was them showing us that they had confidence in our choices, you know?

25:15 And sometimes we tend to do the opposite if we helicopter a bit too much,

25:22 if we're trying too hard to prevent

25:25 our kids from failing or feeling fear, you what?

25:29 What tends to happen is that you're kind of signaling

25:32 to them that you can't do this without me, you know?

25:37 And our parents were like, no, you can do this.

25:41 This is just life.

25:43 And everybody does it.

25:44 And you're pretty smart kids.

25:47 So you'll figure it out.

25:49 And that came to everything from working out

25:52 situations with teachers that were unfair, you know.

25:57 Clashes with friends.

25:59 And that's very different from how people parent today.

26:03 Everybody's trying to curate their kids' experiences and ours was just not.

26:10 I mean, our parents did not feel like our lives

26:15 were theirs to manage or to make better or worse.

26:19 I mean look, we had food on the table and lots of love and lots attention, but.

26:26 Like some parents I know they weren't riding on our highs

26:31 and lows You know our A's our grades were our grades.

26:35 You know, our failures were our failures They were there

26:38 to help pick us up and add a boy and push you

26:42 right back out there We could talk about anything but we

26:46 were required to figure things out and go to them for council,

26:53 but not for intervention.

26:56 And so, you know, you leave home having practiced

26:59 those skills and you start thinking at a very young age,

27:04 there isn't anything I can't figure out.

27:06 I got this.

27:08 You know, and I think that what about you?

27:10 No, everything you said, the one thing I'll say to you folks is our parents

27:19 always had room for our voices at an early age,

27:24 at the kitchen table, when we had meals.

27:28 We were expected or we were allowed to voice

27:32 our opinions and that was really important at an earlier age.

27:36 And Tamisha's point about advocating.

27:39 For learning how to advocate for yourself.

27:42 My dad, who was disabled, I'm sure everybody,

27:47 those of you who have read my sister's book know all the stories,

27:52 but he walked with a limp that got progressively worse as we got older.

27:57 He had MS.

27:58 And if we found out, he had MS, but.

28:03 He wasn't an unhappy disabled person.

28:07 And he always talked to me about finding something you'd love doing,

28:13 and it won't be work.

28:14 And he did that at an early age.

28:16 So I was getting it hammered into me.

28:21 Let me figure out what it is that I love doing.

28:27 And again, I said this earlier,

28:29 Our parents never let their fears get in the way.

28:33 I remember going to my first basketball tournament

28:36 when I was 12 years old to Poplar Bluff,

28:41 Kentucky in a van with a coach who was 19 years old.

28:46 And my mom was like, yeah, go ahead.

28:50 And then I found out that she was so nervous that my dad had

28:55 to comfort her and remind her that I'll be back in a few days.

28:59 But it's not the.

29:02 Sort of helicoptering that you see today.

29:11 When you decided to get off the basketball

29:15 track and go into finance and then leave,

29:21 talk about how scary that was and how risky that was and why it was so for you.

29:27 Yeah so that was the scary point because I took a job in finance when I

29:33 came back from playing basketball solely because it

29:36 was the place you could make the most money.

29:39 Growing up poor like we did I was like all right I'm gonna use this Princeton

29:42 degree and I'm going to get the job that I can get and get paid right

29:48 and I was doing that and I was off on my way as you remember on the partnership

29:55 track and It was time for me to move to New York or maybe even London.

29:59 This was back when Morgan Stanley first moved to Canary Wharf over there.

30:04 And I haven't been back in 40 years, but I know a lot about it.

30:08 And you were living large, my brother had the red Porsche.

30:14 That I was in when...

30:18 Former wife crashed it, it wasn't, you know, it was a fender bender,

30:24 but she was picking me up from the airport and somebody ran into her and she

30:29 ran into somebody and all we were doing

30:31 was sitting in that Porsche going, oh man.

30:35 So he was Mr.

30:37 Corporate, he was a finance bro.

30:41 But what I realized in that is that because you know when you grow up

30:46 poor You think money fixes everything right

30:49 and I learned Now that my ex-wife it wasn't

30:56 the means to happiness and So I'm making this money and doing well and my life

31:03 doesn't feel like it's where it's supposed

31:05 to be and it's because I'm not doing something.

31:08 I love and so I get this opportunity from my old

31:13 basketball assistant coach gets the job at Northwestern University,

31:16 which is in Chicago, and he offers me a job as an assistant coach.

31:23 Now, you can imagine being an assistant coaches

31:25 as opposed to being a bond trader on Wall Street.

31:29 It was about a tenth of the salary.

31:32 And I was really, really nervous about making the change.

31:37 So I talked to Misha about it.

31:40 What was I doing at the time?

31:41 Where was I in life?

31:42 You had already gotten out of the law,

31:46 you had already decided to take a chin, so.

31:50 And a pay cut.

31:52 So here's the two of us going to our parents.

31:55 We're going to make less money, each of us.

31:58 Every step we take is less money.

32:02 Our parents are just like, okay.

32:08 One story for you, I can't pull the trigger on this job because

32:13 I've got an eight-year-old and a four-year old and I'm thinking to myself,

32:18 as I told you, their lifestyle's gonna change.

32:22 And so I talked to them both and I brought them together and I said,

32:27 you know, daddy's getting a new job.

32:28 He's gonna be a basketball coach.

32:30 And they both looked at me like this.

32:35 And my eight-year-old said, does this mean that your office is a gym?

32:43 And I said, yes, it does.

32:46 Not quite, it's next to a gym.

32:49 And my four year old daughter said, they have a pool there?

32:55 And it was at that point that I realized I was worried about the wrong things.

33:00 I was worry about their lives changing and they could care less.

33:05 They just wanted to spend time with me.

33:08 So, that allowed me to make that swerve which was nerve-racking But again,

33:17 my mom said listen I get it you got custody of the kids You have

33:23 to have a place to say come move back home you can pay rent when you

33:27 can and I just started over again and What the lesson I learned from that is

33:34 There's a couple one is Money ain't the best thing all the time and Two is,

33:43 if you're not afraid to start over, you can do anything.

33:47 And I just started over, and I couldn't have made a better choice.

34:01 I just got back from London, we taped an IMO live show,

34:05 I had a little bit of downtime so I explored.

34:08 I did this Airbnb experience while I was there,

34:11 a walking tour around the city and it was one

34:14 of those things where you learn something every five minutes.

34:18 We hit Trafalgar Square and got the full story on Vice Admiral Horatio Nelson.

34:23 We Cut the changing of the guards, we walk through Ben Franklin's actual house.

34:29 Made it out to Greenwich, the literal center of time,

34:32 and the city was already buzzing getting ready

34:34 for the King's ceremonial birthday celebration outside Buckingham Palace.

34:39 Oh, and random fact I couldn't stop thinking about?

34:43 Those stripes on American Navy uniforms?

34:46 Direct nod to the British Royal Navy, yep.

34:49 Now here's the thing that got me.

34:51 London was packed for this conference, and I'm thinking,

34:55 if you live in a city that draws big events like this?

34:59 You could be making real money those weekends.

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35:31 Mish, what is one of the biggest swings

35:34 or leaps of faith you've taken professionally or otherwise?

35:38 I've had a lot of big swings.

35:41 I mean, you know, me leaving my job at the law

35:44 firm where I was making a ton of money

35:47 in corporate law and deciding to go and work in government

35:50 and public service where it cut my salary in half.

35:53 And I remember how guilty I felt for going to mom and dad

35:58 and even expressing an interest to do something that I cared about.

36:02 Rather than something that would make the absolute most money.

36:05 I mean, at the time I was making,

36:06 my salary was more than both mom and dad's salary combined.

36:10 I remember the first time I ever bought a house,

36:13 one of the biggest leaps you ever take.

36:17 I was really intimidated by the whole process.

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37:27 Yeah, the one thing about swerving is that it gets easier over time.

37:33 You know, that first leap is the hardest.

37:36 Mine was when I left law and decided that I, you know,

37:41 and I had to figure out then, if not a lawyer, who do I want to be?

37:46 And I had just start over and figuring that out.

37:48 I had start that process.

37:50 And what was going on in my life at the time was that dad had just died.

37:55 And one of my best friends from college died suddenly of lymphoma,

37:59 and I mean by suddenly she was diagnosed in December and died in May

38:05 and this was a young healthy beautiful girl And it made me stop and think

38:12 oh my god life is short and it is unpredictable and Nothing is really

38:19 guaranteed and if I were to die tomorrow Is this where I wanna be,

38:23 on the 47th floor of a corporate firm, working for corporate clients,

38:29 looking at my, I could see the neighborhood

38:31 where I came from, from my fancy office, but I wasn't connected to it.

38:36 I was like, is this who I wanna to be?

38:38 Have I even thought about it?

38:40 Or was I just checking boxes?

38:43 And I thought, and I also met Barack Obama at the time,

38:47 who was the master swerver,

38:49 because he did the opposite of everything you were supposed to do.

38:52 He had been a community organizer.

38:54 He had, you know, he went back to law,

38:57 not because he wanted to do the corporate firm thing,

38:59 but because he thought it would give him tools to help the community.

39:03 He had no interest in Supreme Court clerkships,

39:06 even though he was the president of the Harvard Law Review,

39:08 and that was the path.

39:09 So I was meeting other people.

39:12 Who were showing me different ways of making decisions in life.

39:17 And we started dating and he was like,

39:20 if you don't wanna do the law, leap now, I got you.

39:24 We're gonna be okay.

39:27 And so I left to work in the city, to work city government.

39:31 I was an assistant to the mayor, then was in economic development.

39:38 And with every move,

39:39 I just realized that I was walking more into my reality, into my truth.

39:47 You know, not being in sort of a sterile environment,

39:50 but being in the grit and the scrum of city work and helping people.

39:59 And that that is what got me up every day feeling really excited.

40:04 And nobody taught me that.

40:07 Or teaches young people that in college.

40:10 Nobody teaches you even the process of figuring that out for yourself.

40:15 And that was an eye-opener.

40:18 But once I did that first leap, the others were easier.

40:23 Because number one, I had freed myself from the financial

40:26 belief in the same way that Craig did.

40:29 It took us longer to pay down our loans, but.

40:32 Paid him down.

40:33 We were able to pay them down.

40:36 And I hope this isn't so disheartening

40:38 to people that we're saying money doesn't matter, that people are leaving, no.

40:47 They're like, wait a minute, money doesn't matter, we're in the wrong seminar.

40:51 I don't agree, but it doesn't.

41:03 Look, look, you know, the thing is is that it comes along the way, right?

41:10 We're both doing well, you now, but I try to talk to young people about

41:16 one thing we learned with Imo, one of our guests,

41:19 favorite guest was Dave Chappelle,

41:21 and he said something about because he lives in a little town,

41:27 Yellow Springs, Ohio, in the middle of nowhere.

41:29 It's this little dot of blue and a lot of red.

41:33 And that's where he grew up.

41:35 His parents were professors at Antioch College,

41:37 which is a small college in that town.

41:39 I mean, it's a farm town.

41:42 We went and visited, because we did the interview out there.

41:45 We did another live out there, and we had an amazing time.

41:49 Dave Chappelle is one of the smartest people on the planet,

41:51 and funny is, I'll get out.

41:53 Yeah, you can clap for that one.

41:54 For that one!

41:55 It was good.

41:57 But when I asked why, because once he became himself,

42:03 he moved back, bought a farm,

42:05 has raised his family on this farm and one of the questions was, why here?

42:11 And he said, I wanted to have the financial freedom to be courageous.

42:18 And I was like, ooh, ooh bars, bars, you know?

42:22 And that's the truth.

42:24 I think Craig is talking about, which what I would say to young people,

42:28 and I say to my girls, live smaller than you need to.

42:34 I know.

42:34 Look, I saw your face, girl.

42:37 What'd you do?

42:38 You got loans?

42:40 It's not too late.

42:41 It's not too late.

42:44 Because I wasn't living small either.

42:46 He had a Porsche.

42:47 I had a Saab.

42:47 That was the first thing we got with nice cars when we got these big,

42:51 fancy firms and big houses, all of that.

42:54 It was just, and it wasn't happiness.

42:58 But living small financially allows you to stay free of the golden handcuffs.

43:06 Because that was the thing I saw in my firm.

43:09 I was figuring this out.

43:10 I would talk to.

43:11 Junior associates, senior associates,

43:14 and people were there, not across the board,

43:19 but folks were there because they got used to the money.

43:25 And everybody had a mortgage or this or that, and that led them to just stay,

43:31 let me just make partner and let me do this because

43:35 now I'm living up to the salary that I'm making, right?

43:40 I didn't want to be stuck making choices in life because of the money.

43:48 So I tell my daughters,

43:50 get used to living smaller than you need to so that you can do the things

43:55 you want to do when they present

43:57 themselves and then you can build from anywhere.

44:01 And Craig, one thing a lot of people didn't realize

44:05 that you knew was that there's hierarchy even financially, even in coaching,

44:10 that you start out as an assistant coach or working with kids,

44:13 but if you make your way to Division I coaching, they make ridiculous money.

44:19 It's way too much money that you were making.

44:24 As a coach.

44:25 But on another The first leap is the hardest

44:31 and keep yourself financially as free as you can.

44:36 So how much of our journey do you think prepared us to be podcast hosts?

44:44 I can't.

44:45 Together.

44:46 Um, none of it, no.

44:49 You know, I think it's that courageous thing, right?

44:54 The feeling that, okay,

44:56 I guess we can do this because we did all these other things.

45:01 That the bravery makes you brave to try anything at any age,

45:05 and I think for me, I've just gotten used to, okay we're gonna do this.

45:11 I mean, I lived in the White House.

45:12 I was the first lady.

45:13 That wasn't my plan.

45:15 I had no training for that, wasn't my idea, was not.

45:23 But we figured it out, figured if I can be First Lady,

45:26 I can do a podcast with my brother.

45:32 But I think staying courageous and curious

45:37 and open and vulnerable and willing to share,

45:43 I think the one thing that I learned through my journey

45:48 was a lot of people just don't tell young folks stuff.

45:52 I mean, it's like, why is so much of life a secret?

45:55 Why are we pretending like, I got it, I get it, and nobody's got it?

46:00 Nobody knows what they're doing.

46:03 And so I've kind of offered a lot of my experiences up.

46:09 Really is kind of like, I feel like I have a responsibility,

46:13 having had opportunities and exposure,

46:16 and to have sat at every powerful table there is.

46:22 I have seen it all.

46:24 Every table, I've been at it.

46:26 And I feel it's my job to come down from the mountain and be like, y'all.

46:31 This is a mole, it's not all that because there's so many people like me,

46:38 like you, women, minorities, folks who aren't supposed to be at these tables

46:44 because they are sitting around thinking that they're imposters,

46:47 you know, imposter syndrome.

46:49 I've never heard a white man talk about imposter syndra,

46:52 I haven't met, I have Met one.

46:55 Who has felt it, I'm just wondering if you guys

46:57 know what we're talking about when we talk about imposter syndrome,

47:01 this feeling that you don't belong at the powerful table you're sitting in.

47:06 Y'all are like, nope, never felt it.

47:09 Never felt it but it's, you know, I think my honesty and vulnerability,

47:15 the kind of conversations we have in podcasting,

47:18 that's a good, I I think it's a good.

47:21 Space to share some of these experiences so that we demystify all of life.

47:28 All of it, you know, marriage, raising kids,

47:32 what was hard, IVF, let's talk about it,

47:34 let's about it so that people aren't growing up unaware of like some obvious

47:41 things and mistakes and so I think you have to be willing to be vulnerable.

47:47 To be in the space of podcasting.

47:49 And I think my life has prepared me for that.

47:53 What about you?

47:54 I'm only in this because our team asked me to do

47:59 it to get her to do It is true, it is true.

48:04 I wasn't, you know, I was like, I don't need this.

48:08 I'm half joking, no.

48:09 No, it is true.

48:11 They were like, your brother will do it with you.

48:14 I was like, really?

48:15 So, Craig, I love my brother.

48:18 I do.

48:20 Oh, and that's sweet.

48:21 He's my big brother.

48:23 But pivoting to this was easy for me, but one of the pivots I took in between

48:32 working in college basketball and working in the NBA,

48:36 I worked at ESPN, which is a sports channel in the United States.

48:40 I forgot all about that, see he swerved so much, I totally forgot about your...

48:43 She forgot about your broadcast.

48:44 Of your broadcasting experience.

48:45 She was busy in the White House.

48:47 Yeah, that's right.

48:48 That's what we were doing.

48:49 She could get stuff like that.

48:50 So it wasn't something that I had planned to do,

48:53 but it was one of those things where my agent was like,

48:58 don't go back into coaching, by the way,

48:59 why don't you go work on TV and just think about it?

49:02 And I did that.

49:02 And my wife says that we're doing this podcast.

49:06 His second wife, by the way.

49:07 But yeah, my second wife, my 2nd Well, we want to clarify that.

49:12 We're honest.

49:14 Remember he got divorced before the poor sh-

49:17 My sister and my second wife get along really well.

49:19 I got along with your first wife too.

49:22 We crashed a Porsche together.

49:27 Yeah, I'm still mad about that.

49:31 But she says it's because I just like talking to people, which is true.

49:35 So, you know, what's really been interesting about this pivot is that...

49:43 I've been able to sort of culminate all the experiences

49:46 I've had throughout my life and then use them philanthropically.

49:51 Because as Miesh said early in her introduction, you know,

49:57 we get questions from our listeners and then can

50:00 impart some opinions to try and help them and being

50:08 philanthropic with our experiences is such a It's such

50:13 a wonderful feeling and people have been so gracious.

50:17 You know, you go through the airport you go

50:19 I've still coaching my kids in basketball tournaments people come

50:22 up to me all the time and say how

50:24 much they love the show So that's been really good.

50:27 The second thing is and I don't think we talk

50:30 about this enough Because I'm used to being on teams,

50:36 you know having been a player and then gone and worked at, you know,

50:42 when you think about bond trading, it's very individualistic.

50:47 So for a big part of my life, I was sort of a sole survivor out there.

50:52 And then I got back into sports and it's back with a team.

50:56 You know, working on this podcast is like having a whole

51:00 new team in a completely different genre than I've been comfortable in.

51:07 So.

51:07 I'm like the rookie on the team again.

51:10 I mean, we've got, you know, our staff is peppered through here and in the back.

51:14 They really are the ones who make the show for us.

51:18 They get our guests.

51:20 They, you, know, help produce us.

51:22 And it just is it just as a really neat feeling.

51:26 And every time we get together, it's like a reunion.

51:30 And so this is this has really been a pivot that's been a whole lot of fun.

51:35 And it's really nice to hang out with my little sister again.

51:41 And the most remarkable thing is, because I know how you guys look up to her.

51:47 That's how our guests are.

51:49 Well, some of you do.

51:50 Right?

51:51 Wait.

51:52 Maybe.

51:53 And it is mind boggling to me.

51:57 Mind boggaling.

52:00 I mean, you know, sometimes people get so.

52:03 Emotional and I'm just like shaking my head like her?

52:11 No, but it's been really fun.

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54:11 What's been the most challenging part for you?

54:15 You know, I just think the pace, we stack up a lot of interviews at once because

54:22 he works and there are other commitments, so it's just.

54:25 You know, it's how she said he works and then other commitments Well,

54:29 he's got a real J-O-B in a traditional sense,

54:34 and I'm just rambling around the country doing stuff.

54:38 But I have more control over my schedule than he does.

54:43 So it's doing the work to be prepared for your guest, whoever it is.

54:49 The one thing I've learned in college,

54:50 one of the skills that I've brought along way that has

54:54 helped me as First Lady is just preparing, you know.

54:59 Being ready for whatever job you're doing.

55:02 And I tend to over-prepare.

55:04 So I think it's really trying to make sure I know enough about every guest,

55:09 about every aspect of them, so that I can forget about any notes

55:13 and then be engaged in the conversation when it happens.

55:17 So it's like talking to a friend that I've

55:19 known all the time, and I can remember,

55:21 ooh, you said this one thing, talk more about that, or get into that.

55:25 You know, sometimes it's work to make things look.

55:30 Effortless, and so just making that time is one thing

55:37 that takes up a little more time than I thought.

55:40 But it's good.

55:42 For me, the most challenging thing is keeping up with my sister's wardrobe.

55:49 That's hard.

55:51 You're doing okay, look at his socks, though.

55:54 He doesn't know that he should steam his jackets before he comes out,

55:58 but we're working on it.

55:59 We're working it.

56:01 Nobody can see the back.

56:03 Yeah, spoken like a boy, a non-fashion boy.

56:07 No, for me, it is keeping up with pop culture is hard, you know, because...

56:15 Which is just regular conversation, right?

56:18 You know, I mean, pop culture, if it's not basketball,

56:22 you know, it just can't be all sports.

56:24 You know?

56:24 You gotta know what the Real Housewives are up to.

56:28 You've got to know.

56:29 And I don't know.

56:30 And I don't know what the Real Housewives are up to, I don't

56:32 So he is left out of a lot of conversations on the podcast, y'all.

56:38 But we've talked about this third act.

56:45 And you guys are young out there.

56:47 There are a lot young faces.

56:49 But I think there'll be some people here who understand that what for me,

56:57 and I do say this, is probably my last chapter.

57:01 I mean...

57:02 From a career standpoint, don't look like that.

57:05 I am 62 years old and you're older.

57:09 I'm 64, yeah.

57:12 64, 62, our grandparent, we're grand, we could be grandparents, but we are not.

57:19 If we had sat down for a few minutes, we could be grandparents.

57:22 It's true, yeah, yeah.

57:24 If we had slowed down a minute,

57:27 but I do think I have been trying to be very mindful in this next chapter.

57:35 And I get my staff all upset when I say this and we just lost our mom.

57:42 And one of the things that mom said,

57:44 and our mom was very practical about life and all things and she's like,

57:49 I don't wanna live to forever.

57:51 Old people need to die and get out.

57:53 I mean, these are her words.

57:55 It's like, we don't know what we're talking about.

57:56 We need to keep moving on and I'm just

57:58 gonna be fine when I get older and, you know.

58:02 She's been dropping dead for 20 years.

58:04 She's like, oh, I'm going to be dead,

58:06 and you need to be able to get yourself together with me not here.

58:09 I mean, she's telling us this, and we're 10 years old.

58:11 And I'm like, mom, this is scary.

58:15 But when she was sick and getting worse, she was with me for about a winter.

58:21 And it was clear that she might not recover from this.

58:28 And so we you know Fortunately had some time to kind of all

58:34 come to grips with the fact that mom wasn't going to be here forever

58:37 and even with her jaded and you know stoic approach to things I

58:44 was sitting with her on the couch and we were watching TV and we

58:48 just come back from doctor's appointment didn't get great news and we were

58:53 watching Judge Judy as we often do as she did and she just

58:58 looked over at me and said while that was quick and I was

59:02 like what are you talking about mom and she said life and I like.

59:07 And she said, nothing else.

59:10 You know, like even this cynical sort of stoic woman felt like,

59:14 you know, when you're living a good life, it's fast.

59:19 And I felt like that in our lives when you are busy and moving.

59:23 I mean, this last, we've been out of the White House for 10 years,

59:26 and I swear it went like that.

59:29 And most people, my daughters will be 28 and 25 this year.

59:36 Thank you.

59:36 I mean.

59:37 And so my thing is like this next chapter I want

59:42 to be mindful about it so that it doesn't just slip away.

59:46 I want be clear about how I'm spending my time,

59:49 how much of it I'm giving away to others,

59:51 what I'm choosing to do, you know, how it makes me feel,

59:56 you how the choices that I make are now going to be for me,

1:00:01 not for my husband, not my kids, not the country, not for the world.

1:00:06 Because this is it, and at some point,

1:00:10 it's important for us, our generation, to step out of the way,

1:00:15 and be prepared to step outta the way so

1:00:17 that the next generation really can sit in these seats.

1:00:22 So that means that this is our, you know, this is out third act.

1:00:28 I don't know how do you think about your third act, Craig?

1:00:31 Well, I wasn't thinking of it as a third

1:00:32 act until everybody started talking about it.

1:00:34 Third act.

1:00:36 No, it's, uh, it...

1:00:42 It's all the more important to reiterate what I was saying about

1:00:46 finding something you love to do because it's not easy to do.

1:00:52 It's not easily to find, I should say.

1:00:55 And we have been really fortunate in being able to do a lot of things.

1:01:03 But my sister always reminds me,

1:01:07 she said on one of our episodes, she said, you know.

1:01:11 We only have about 19 summers left.

1:01:16 Which is a lot of summers, but it is 19, we're 62.

1:01:23 Think about it.

1:01:24 That's not many, but it's, you know,

1:01:27 so I want to start counting so I don't lose track.

1:01:30 Yeah, I don't want to I don't want to waste a summer doing something silly.

1:01:35 It's like, dang, one of my summers just went to doing somethings silly.

1:01:39 So this part of our lives,

1:01:42 we just taking more control over it and being able to spend

1:01:47 it together and our families are getting together way more often now.

1:01:53 It's just, you know, if I could impart any opinions or advice to you

1:01:59 is don't sleep on this third act because there,

1:02:05 you You know, at this age, we are not.

1:02:08 The same as our parents were.

1:02:11 We are vibrant and lively and can still run around a little bit.

1:02:17 We're cool.

1:02:19 She's cooler than I am.

1:02:20 Yeah but we're cool.

1:02:24 So it is just embrace the third act is what I'm saying

1:02:28 because the fun doesn't have to stop and the learning doesn't to stop.

1:02:35 And you know, people talk about, they throw around this lifelong learner term.

1:02:42 It's true.

1:02:44 One of the best parts about doing this is that My brain has been re-energized.

1:02:51 I'm learning something every single time we sit together with one of our guests.

1:02:58 And to the young people out there, too,

1:03:01 because all of this is earned and has to be earned.

1:03:07 And so it's important to know that there was a process for us to get here.

1:03:15 And that process takes time.

1:03:19 And it takes some level of investment.

1:03:22 Because even though we swerved one of the things I

1:03:25 know you and I did was that wherever we were

1:03:27 at the time We put 120 percent in what we were

1:03:32 doing and none of it was a waste And that's what

1:03:36 I want young people to understand that every experience everyone

1:03:40 the bad boss the The boring assistant job the the the job

1:03:47 that you thought you weren't appreciated the one that didn't

1:03:51 give you the assignment you wanted when you wanted it.

1:03:55 All of that is learning, it's learning to be resilient.

1:04:00 It's like one thing that's important to learn is how to do

1:04:03 something you don't like to do and be good at it.

1:04:07 I think a lot of young people,

1:04:09 now they wanna do what I wanna do and what I'm good at.

1:04:12 You gotta earn that.

1:04:14 You gotta earned carrying some bags and.

1:04:19 Having some tough times and having people treat you unfairly

1:04:24 and not giving you the raise when you think you deserve it.

1:04:29 There's character building that comes that gets you ready down

1:04:33 the line for being your own manager, being your leader.

1:04:39 So one of the things that a lot of our guests say that are good at what they do.

1:04:47 Is that they are more enamored with the process than the outcome.

1:04:54 And so I would say to young people, enjoy, learn to enjoy the process.

1:05:00 Whatever your process is, because it's,

1:05:03 that's where you develop the skills that then

1:05:06 lead you to the things that you wanna do.

1:05:09 You know, the process of developing programs in the White House, it takes time.

1:05:14 It took a level of persistence.

1:05:17 There was a whole lot of backlash.

1:05:20 Was I prepared for it?

1:05:21 Was Barack prepared for?

1:05:23 Heck yeah, we were.

1:05:25 From all the other things that we had done,

1:05:28 it all leads up to being ready for the thing

1:05:31 you don't even know that you're gonna do.

1:05:34 So I want young people to be a little more patient in the process.

1:05:39 You don't have to start counting your summers yet.

1:05:42 You got a lot of them, and that's the other thing.

1:05:45 Life is long.

1:05:46 I mean...

1:05:47 We have had between us, we've had dozens and dozens of careers.

1:05:52 It's like the ability to remake yourself is there if you're good at what you do.

1:05:57 And that's another reason to work hard is because you leave your job well,

1:06:03 you can go to the next one.

1:06:05 Everything we've done,

1:06:06 I hope people say they were good at what they did so that we got the support

1:06:12 and the encouragement to go to the next place even if you didn't like the job.

1:06:16 I worked hard at Sidley and Austin.

1:06:18 I had great relationships with those partners.

1:06:21 They're still in my life.

1:06:23 Some of those people back when I was 26

1:06:25 years old are still people who respect me now.

1:06:29 And that's the kind of investment that I think everybody here,

1:06:33 young people early in their careers, wants to be thinking about making.

1:06:38 What are these people, whether I like them or not gonna say about me,

1:06:43 in 10, 20 years, what are they gonna remember?

1:06:46 About what I left behind, but it's the process.

1:06:54 I don't have too much more to add.

1:06:57 All right, well then.

1:06:58 It is time!

1:07:00 Yes, we've covered a lot of ground.

1:07:03 This is something our team, our team loves for us to do,

1:07:08 which I'm like, okay, I don't know whether this is gonna be fun for you.

1:07:11 Yeah, my sister is a curmudgeon.

1:07:16 Alright, I can be.

1:07:17 This is, we want to end on a bit of a lighter note.

1:07:20 And our team has written up some fast money lightning round questions.

1:07:24 Oh, do I?

1:07:25 I think I lost mine.

1:07:26 That's okay.

1:07:27 I'm prepared.

1:07:29 I didn't do that on purpose, Crystal, I swear.

1:07:32 So we're going to do some fast rounds to each other,

1:07:35 or maybe I'll do them for both of us since she's lost her cards.

1:07:41 But we're gonna name some British favorites and see which ones are our favorite.

1:07:49 You ready?

1:07:50 Okay, yeah.

1:07:51 All right, so I'll go first.

1:07:54 Okay.

1:07:54 Sausage roll or fish and chips?

1:07:57 Fish and chips, I had a plate, got in late 10.30,

1:07:59 fish and chips waiting, vinegar, tartar sauce, best thing, best thing.

1:08:05 I mean, it's always smacks, fish and chips, I'm fish and chip.

1:08:10 American biscuits or British biscuits?

1:08:13 It depends on what I'm doing, but British biscuits are cookies,

1:08:21 and American biscuits are bread, so I'm going British biscuits.

1:08:26 Really?

1:08:29 Okay.

1:08:30 All right.

1:08:30 I know what I'm talking about.

1:08:31 They still sell Jaffa cookies around here.

1:08:34 Jaffas?

1:08:35 Yeah.

1:08:38 Okay, little Mr.

1:08:40 Manchester, you're next.

1:08:44 You ask me.

1:08:45 Tea or coffee?

1:08:48 Tea, although I had a cappuccino because I've just come back from Australia.

1:08:54 So I'm like, I'm holding up.

1:08:56 I needed coffee today.

1:09:01 Marmite beloved delicacy or edible prank.

1:09:06 Edible prank What is it?

1:09:10 It's like, uh, Vegemite.

1:09:12 It's- What is that?

1:09:13 It's like a spread, right?

1:09:15 A spread?

1:09:15 What is it?

1:09:16 What is in it?

1:09:18 It's like yeast spread, it's a yeast spread.

1:09:22 Why are you all eating yeast?

1:09:25 What is going on here?

1:09:27 And who was the first yeast eater?

1:09:30 Who tried that?

1:09:31 It's actually good for your gut.

1:09:33 What do you know?

1:09:37 All right here pub at 2 p.m.

1:09:40 On a Tuesday Concerning or community building?

1:09:47 I don't think there's any problem with 2 p.m.

1:09:51 Pub.

1:09:51 I mean, assuming, assuming you got your work done,

1:09:58 and it's not happening every day.

1:10:01 Oh, it's just Tuesday.

1:10:02 Yeah, yeah, that's fine, that' fine.

1:10:07 What's a spotted dick?

1:10:11 I really, what is it?

1:10:13 What is that?

1:10:13 I don't know what that is.

1:10:15 Did you, what is it?

1:10:20 A pudding, like a cake.

1:10:23 Okay.

1:10:24 Is it good?

1:10:25 Is it delicious?

1:10:26 Is it like, is it yeast again?

1:10:32 That's why I don't know about it.

1:10:33 It's not delicious.

1:10:34 I thought you knew.

1:10:36 Okay, Big Ben or the London Eye.

1:10:40 Uh-oh, is there a right answer to this?

1:10:43 No, there is.

1:10:46 OK, let me guess what it should be.

1:10:48 Big Ben's been around longer.

1:10:50 It's a historical feature, whereas the London Eye is a ride.

1:10:54 Is that pretty much?

1:10:56 So you should care about the history and not the ride.

1:11:00 Although the ride sounds fun.

1:11:02 It's a Ferris wheel, right?

1:11:04 Yes, it is.

1:11:05 The London Eyes of Paris will.

1:11:06 It's a lie.

1:11:07 Yeah.

1:11:08 Yeah.

1:11:08 All right.

1:11:08 Okay, you can only listen to one for the rest

1:11:12 of your life Elton John or Paul McCartney So yeah, that's a hard one, right?

1:11:19 But let me tell you, Elton John was my mom's favorite artist.

1:11:24 Yes.

1:11:25 And for her funeral, he re-recorded, it was a candle in the wind,

1:11:34 one of her favorite songs, For Her.

1:11:37 Oh, and love, Paul.

1:11:41 Hey, Paul, we're coming for you.

1:11:45 Okay, we're running out of time, so we'll do one more.

1:11:48 Okay, you do it.

1:11:50 Favorite British word.

1:11:53 Bloody brilliant.

1:11:55 I love it.

1:11:56 I keep intending to use brilliant, but I forget because I'm American

1:12:01 and we don't have beautiful language sometimes.

1:12:04 And bloody is worse than the F word.

1:12:06 Is it really?

1:12:08 No, it used to be when I lived here, it was worse.

1:12:12 No, I think the fact that anything can be brilliant,

1:12:16 it's like it's just brilliant.

1:12:20 Like this time with you all, brilliant.

1:12:23 Brilliant.

1:12:30 All right.

1:12:32 London, thank you guys so much.

1:12:35 It has been a treat.

1:12:37 It's good to be back.

1:12:39 We love you all.

1:12:40 Thank you.

1:12:40 And to my big brother, Craig Robinson.