The One Thing People Remember More Than Your Talent ft. Will Guidara

0:00 Welcome to the Jefferson Fischer podcast.

0:02 On today's episode, my guest is Will Gada.

0:04 He is the author of the New York Times bestselling book,

0:07 Unreasonable Hospitality.

0:09 If you see a bright yellow book in an airport or a bookstore,

0:12 it's most likely Will's.

0:14 He is fantastic.

0:15 He is the former co-owner of the restaurant 11 Madison Park in New York.

0:19 And under his leadership,

0:20 it was named the number one restaurant in the entire world.

0:23 And he is also the co-producer of FX series Emmy award-winning show, The Bear.

0:29 There are so many gems from this conversation.

0:31 We talk all about the art of hospitality in conversation.

0:34 How how do you bring creativity and deliver more than just

0:37 the minimum expectations and how we interact with one with one another.

0:41 We talk all about how to have the right kind of meetings,

0:44 how to get attention immediately, how to navigate the right way,

0:48 and at the end of the day,

0:48 how to do it with grace and kindness

0:51 and a little bit of something spontaneous that you never expected.

0:54 Enjoy.

0:55 So, you go to a restaurant and then it's

0:57 easy to kind of pick up on those little moments.

1:01 Like I I imagine even when you're working

1:04 and even if you're just there hanging out,

1:05 like it's almost impossible for your eyes not

1:07 to be just like hypervigilant the whole time.

1:10 Well, so like with intention

1:13 Yes.

1:12 The other night at dinner, I sat in the chair facing the window.

1:16 Yeah, I I noticed that.

1:17 I will always if there's a chair where I'm looking at a wall

1:23 Yeah.

1:23 that's where I'll sit.

1:24 Yeah, just because I've gotten pretty good at it,

1:26 but like I don't need it's like an addict

1:32 hanging out with like heroin on the table.

1:33 It's unnecessary.

1:35 Yeah.

1:35 Yeah.

1:35 You don't need to be doing that.

1:36 I don't need the distraction because I will invariably like wait, why are they

1:41 Yeah.

1:42 And all of a sudden you're and then you're gone from the conversation

1:44 and then I just missed the most beautiful part

1:46 of the conversation that I helped to perhaps set in motion.

1:49 I get that.

1:49 I have uh one of my best friends uh was a policeman

1:53 forever and still he sits always where he can see the door.

1:58 Like that's just he he he's he's not going to sit anywhere.

2:01 He can't feel comfortable not looking

2:03 at a door when he's sitting down like that.

2:05 So I do the opposite.

2:06 You do the opposite.

2:07 Well, yeah, cuz you don't want to see it.

2:08 And one thing I also my work doesn't have the capacity to save someone's life.

2:12 That's true.

2:13 There's a little You are training the Heimlick.

2:15 You know what I'm saying?

2:16 like he he might be.

2:19 And I was going to tell you uh this is a little gym most people don't know.

2:24 So when I uh was at my old uh first law firm, big defense firm,

2:30 and I was getting the itch of I'm in my mid20s

2:34 and who everybody in their mid20s thinks I know this better than everybody.

2:39 Like I'm the smartest.

2:40 I know this.

2:41 I'm right.

2:41 Everybody else is wrong.

2:42 Yes.

2:43 And I was really wanting to learn business of like having my own business cuz

2:47 I went straight from law school into big law and and doing that life and

2:52 business as in starting your own firm.

2:54 Uh yeah.

2:55 Or or just how do you how do you have your own employees?

2:58 Like what's that?

2:59 How would you even do that?

3:00 Yeah.

3:01 And so co my one of my best friends amazing chef by himself uh and he had

3:10 just gotten let go of this restaurant and then

3:13 there was this like I don't know what they

3:16 call it class A commercial building that had

3:18 a restaurant in it that was looking for a new

3:20 person to come in and so I came

3:22 in with him and we opened that little restaurant.

3:27 You actually did it.

3:27 Uhhuh.

3:28 and a coffee shop right next to it,

3:29 like a a little American food, little place uh that did really well.

3:36 And and so I learned all about play cost and all of like things in it.

3:43 Yeah, dude.

3:44 You're like on the floor?

3:46 Yeah.

3:46 No way.

3:47 Yeah.

3:47 And so it was and I would help out on expo and try all the different way.

3:51 Yeah, man.

3:52 And so it was

3:53 Is that restaurant still there?

3:54 It's still there.

3:55 I that's I that's sold my part if like I got it was like I could either

3:59 try to get an MBA in business or I could just put the same amount of money into

4:04 go.

4:05 Yeah.

4:05 Yeah.

4:05 in and doing it even though many would say not

4:09 the best business model for for certain things but it was it

4:13 was fantastic and I and I what I learned a lot

4:17 and I think whereas I wish I had had and we're going

4:20 to talk into this field guide that you have I'm I'm

4:23 generally not a jealous guy this field guide as soon as I

4:29 saw it and got in my hands I was like dog

4:31 gone it this is so good I wish I had had that because I came in

4:38 and a lot of my creativity which I think

4:42 I know I'm actually a very creative person.

4:44 I just went into law and life has led me back

4:50 Yes.

4:49 to doing more creativity is I got focused on brand.

4:53 I got focused on the right logo, the right tagline, the right like aesthetic.

4:58 Yes.

4:58 instead of just serving people to what

5:03 they above and beyond and exceeding that expectation.

5:06 And I know a lot of your stuff

5:09 is it's not just hospitality is not meeting expectation.

5:13 It is exceeding it and giving people

5:15 more than they think they could ever deserve.

5:18 Yeah.

5:18 And and so that was my like I need to make sure I mentioned that to him.

5:22 Thank you, man.

5:23 So I wish I had had I wish I'd had that, but I got in and out.

5:25 I was I had it for like uh four years.

5:28 And you had fun.

5:29 I did.

5:29 I had a blast.

5:30 And you learned a bunch.

5:31 I learned a bunch.

5:31 I had some of the biggest laughs I've ever had in my life.

5:34 Just

5:35 Also, there are few things there are few groups that will ever be as close Yeah.

5:45 as a group that has opened a restaurant together.

5:49 Do you know what I mean?

5:49 Like cuz it's the it's the entire emotional gamut.

5:54 Yeah.

5:54 Like you have all the highs and the fun

5:56 and then laughs and then those moments when you're on expo.

6:00 Yeah.

6:01 And you're like, I was a very successful lawyer.

6:05 How does my brain have an inability to figure out how to figure

6:08 what plate of food goes to what table within what frame of time?

6:11 And like and then there's the teamwork to figure it out.

6:13 I love that.

6:14 Mhm.

6:15 And and the thing was at the time the law firm was like shut down

6:18 for a year because they were trying to still

6:21 get the with the times of remote work.

6:23 So you had space

6:24 and so yeah, I had space and because it was a commercial building,

6:27 we were able to do a lot of stuff that others

6:29 weren't and take advantage of proximity and 6 feet or whatever.

6:34 But man, I laughed some of the hardest I've ever

6:36 laughed and being back a house doing stuff like that.

6:39 We um we had it was also some of the worst hurricanes.

6:43 And so we were able to provide a lot

6:46 of food for first responders and so and so we're making

6:50 food at like 4:00 a.m.

6:52 Let's open a restaurant.

6:53 Then we have to figure out how to work within all of the adversity that is co

7:00 Yes.

6:59 You know what?

7:00 What else would be cool?

7:01 Hurricanes.

7:04 Sorry.

7:04 Anybody got it?

7:05 Anybody?

7:05 Yes.

7:06 That's it.

7:06 Hurricanes.

7:07 Let's go, man.

7:08 And uh but mine is just a small fraction of just the depth

7:14 of of knowledge that you have in this industry and I I do

7:19 I absolutely want to get into the the field guide which I am

7:24 just thrilled to be one of the first to get it in their hands.

7:27 Um but what you articulated like the brand

7:31 Yeah.

7:32 And it is very very common for someone to get like, "All right,

7:37 I want to be really creative about the food on the plate.

7:40 I want to be really creative about what plates we use,

7:43 about what the rim looks like.

7:46 I want to be creative about what the logo

7:47 is and the tagline and the uniforms." And

7:53 yet the one thing that people will

7:55 actually remember is where people stop being creative.

8:00 Yeah.

8:00 and where they stopped

8:02 where they stopped.

8:03 No one, very few people rather invest their best efforts into just the big

8:10 and little things that make people feel a sense of connection to to a place.

8:14 Yeah, I think that's so right.

8:16 And it's so counter like the moment you say it out loud like that.

8:21 Yeah.

8:20 It's like, oh well that makes sense.

8:23 But yet

8:24 but yet.

8:25 Nah, but yet I um you you have the book Unreasonable Hospitality and I'm

8:32 going to be able to share with my audience all all of your background,

8:36 but I I my mind always turns to communication.

8:41 Yeah.

8:40 And so I I have been toying with the idea

8:43 of like what is the equivalent of unreasonable hospitality in communication?

8:50 If if we define hospitality as you do,

8:54 the creative intentional act of making people feel seen, heard, and cared for.

9:00 Yeah.

9:00 Above and beyond the service,

9:02 you what does that feel like look like in communication?

9:06 So I was curious in your mind, what

9:10 whether it's relationships, whether it's team, because I do want to talk team.

9:15 What do you find are those moments

9:17 that have been that unreasonableness that you benefited from

9:23 in conversation with people?

9:25 So some of your best friends.

9:31 Well, I mean I think a lot of your work centers around hospitality,

9:38 right?

9:36 I really like those two words,

9:40 creativity and intention I circle back to often, right?

9:44 And I think the most beautiful things

9:45 happen at the intersection of those two things.

9:47 Right.

9:48 The intention

9:50 of saying I want to communicate this.

9:55 Mhm.

9:54 Cuz a lot of people in communication are not

9:56 very intentional about what is coming out of their mouths.

9:59 Right.

9:59 Like as opposed to saying what am I actually trying to communicate?

10:03 Okay.

10:03 It's this

10:05 then creativity.

10:07 What's the right way to communicate it such that the message

10:12 will actually be received and depending on the context.

10:17 Mhm.

10:16 In a way that is supportive and not

10:19 destructive or thoughtful and not insulting, right?

10:24 And when it's that kind of communication or if

10:27 you're attempting to make someone feel some level of affirmation,

10:32 they're actually communicating to them in a way that they can receive it well.

10:36 Yeah.

10:36 So like on the I talk a lot about feedback,

10:43 right?

10:42 I think you cannot create anything extraordinary in a business

10:47 absent like creating a culture where feedback is the norm.

10:52 And when I talk about feedback, yes,

10:55 I'm talking about praise obviously because when you set really

11:00 high expectations for people and they meet or exceed those expectations,

11:03 you better be there to celebrate them.

11:05 Yeah.

11:05 A because it's the right thing to do.

11:08 But well, B, the more praise I receive,

11:12 the more praise I want to receive, right?

11:14 You're telling people what right looks like

11:16 and you're encouraging them to do more of that.

11:18 And

11:19 not to mention the fact that in a group,

11:21 if we're having a daily huddle and I'm celebrating the heck out of you,

11:26 Yeah.

11:25 everyone else in the group is going to be like, I want a piece of that.

11:30 Exactly.

11:29 So obviously praise but I think we focus so much

11:31 on praise that we don't spend nearly enough time focusing on criticism

11:37 because if praise is affirmation criticism is investment.

11:41 So if we can say an an equivalent of unreasonable

11:43 hospitality and communication is the value of criticism done right.

11:49 Thoughtful criticism.

11:51 Thoughtful criticism.

11:52 Yeah.

11:52 And in the same way that I've watched your videos where you're like,

11:56 "Hey, if you want to do this, like do this." Yeah.

12:01 Right.

12:01 Right.

12:01 What What are some other ways that you could Exactly.

12:04 It It was kind of like your idea of like there's a better way to do this.

12:07 You walk into a restaurant, a hotel, you know, there's a better way to do this.

12:11 But with criticism, I mean, unreasonable communication and criticism is

12:18 recognizing that there's like things you

12:20 need to keep in mind if you want it to be thoughtful.

12:22 If you want it to be an investment, and

12:24 let's criticize in private, not in public.

12:27 Let's criticize the behavior, not the person.

12:30 Remember that I'm telling you to wear white socks, not telling you're an idiot.

12:38 You know what I mean?

12:38 Like, you're great, right?

12:39 Just do this differently.

12:41 to criticize consistently

12:44 because some people are so uncomfortable with investing

12:49 in someone else's growth through criticism that they

12:51 don't do it until they're either in a bad mood or have the energy and yeah,

12:57 two things happen when you are inconsistent in criticism.

13:00 People don't actually know what right looks like cuz they

13:02 could do the same thing three days in a row

13:04 and they're only getting called on it.

13:06 the third or a negative connotation is attached to it because

13:10 you only do it when you're in a foul mood, right?

13:12 And so you do it in a bad way.

13:14 Um,

13:15 do you think that there's like a line between just feedback,

13:19 general feedback, and also criticism?

13:22 I think criticism is a type of feedback.

13:26 Okay.

13:25 I think praise is a type of feedback and criticism is a

13:28 general feedback is criticism.

13:30 No,

13:30 if if you do something great, my feedback is, hey,

13:34 yeah,

13:34 you crushed that,

13:36 right?

13:36 That's feedback.

13:39 Mhm.

13:38 Or if you do something not so great.

13:42 Yeah.

13:43 Hey, but listen, anyone that wants to grow, if they are not receiving criticism,

13:50 they're never going to become their most fully realized self.

13:53 Yeah.

13:53 You have to have it.

13:54 It's like if Do you see a trainer for

13:57 to like a physical trainer?

13:59 No, this is all organic that just comes these wake up like that.

14:02 Yeah, that's right.

14:03 All right.

14:03 Well, I I do.

14:05 I I I probably would benefit from one just

14:07 I just started this year and it's a game changer.

14:11 What it's done is I spend

14:12 I need someone for nutrition.

14:13 Like I need somebody to help go you need to eat

14:15 these things because if I'm not careful with school drop off and everything,

14:19 I will miss breakfast and I turn around and it's 2:00 and it's like okay.

14:23 And then you're eating the least healthy thing in the entire for sure.

14:25 And then I and then it it happens I'm really not hungry for 5:30 p.m.

14:29 dinner with my kids.

14:30 And so, you know, I not my that's what I need.

14:33 Okay.

14:33 So, trainer.

14:35 Well, first of all, it's a great thing to have

14:36 in my experience because I get as much done in half the time.

14:41 But if I'm doing a workout not the right way,

14:45 I want him to tell me what I'm doing wrong.

14:50 Yeah.

14:50 Otherwise, I'm just wasting time.

14:51 And I'd rather invest that time efficiently

14:54 and actually get stronger by result of the investment.

14:57 And how much stronger you could get if you

14:58 just move your form just like a little bit.

15:00 But if every time the trainer was like, "Hey,

15:02 do this." Bro, stop talking to me like that.

15:05 Yeah.

15:05 I'm doing it right.

15:06 Guess what?

15:06 He's going to stop doing.

15:08 Yeah.

15:08 Correcting me.

15:09 Because it's too exhausting to give me the feedback.

15:12 Yeah.

15:12 Before we keep going, I want to take a moment to tell you about Cozy Earth.

15:16 First off, um my mama has their pajama set which I gave to her last year.

15:22 They the company sent them to me like here maybe your mom's going to like these.

15:26 I was like let me send them to my mom who let me

15:28 tell you is the type of person who likes to salt and pepper everything.

15:32 So she's extremely particular about all the things.

15:35 And she told me so much that she loved these.

15:39 I got a text from her three weeks before Mother's Day asking me if

15:43 I still had my code for Cozy Earth because she wanted some more pajamas.

15:48 I said, "Mama, I will get them for you." So,

15:50 y'all know I got her some more pajamas.

15:52 But that's how good they are.

15:54 So, if you whether it's Mother's Day or not, who cares?

15:56 If you know a mom or you're a mom or you're

15:59 just somebody who likes to sleep in a full set pajama,

16:02 you can go to cozyearth.com/jfferson, use the code and get up to 20% off.

16:07 They have a 10-year warranty.

16:08 Awesome product, awesome company.

16:10 Cozyear.com/Jfferson.

16:11 Used to go Jefferson for 20% off.

16:14 Let's keep going.

16:15 When I was on the way knowing this conversation was coming, I was like, wow.

16:20 I was just wrestling and kind of chewing on the idea of like to me,

16:23 what is that unreasonable hospitality in conversation?

16:27 And the theme that kept coming up for me is grace.

16:31 Like grace can be an unreasonable thing.

16:37 like an unreasonable feeling.

16:40 And it draws that line between mercy and grace.

16:44 Mercy being you don't get what you deserve.

16:50 Grace is you get what you don't deserve.

16:57 And so so much in conversation like you

17:02 might deserve me to give you that clapback.

17:07 a comeback insult right in your face.

17:10 Yes.

17:10 It would be unreasonable for me.

17:13 Yes.

17:13 To have pause and decide that your worst

17:17 moment is not going to determine how I respond.

17:19 Do you know the the phrase that I

17:22 learned from my longtime mentor whose name is Danny

17:24 Meyer is Danny Meyer who was one

17:26 of the central tenants of the company was charitable assumption.

17:31 When you say the company I want

17:33 uh unreasonable unis square hospitality group.

17:35 So that was like Grammarly Tavern, Union Square Cafe.

17:38 It's where I came up.

17:40 Um, and there's a whole another idea about communication from that company.

17:44 But and he had these isms like these short succinct

17:50 I love a good

17:51 bordering on cheesy articulations

17:55 of his non-negotiables.

17:58 Mhm.

17:58 And every time he made an idea into an ism,

18:00 it was like a meta signal to all of us in the company that that thing mattered.

18:04 Yeah.

18:04 Um, one of them was charitable assumption.

18:08 Charitable assumption is another way of saying give people the benefit

18:11 of the doubt or ask the question before you say the thing.

18:18 Yeah.

18:17 So, I'll give you an example.

18:19 Um, someone comes into the restaurant and they're just a jerk.

18:24 They are just a jerk.

18:25 They're acting like a jerk.

18:27 Now, it's totally reasonable for me to say,

18:31 "He doesn't deserve my best hospitality." Mhm.

18:37 The charitable assumption though would have me say instead, "Gosh,

18:42 maybe on his way to the restaurant, he found out that someone died."

18:47 Yeah.

18:46 Or his wife filed for divorce.

18:49 Maybe the guy acting like a jerk actually needs

18:53 my hospitality more than anyone else in the room.

18:56 and for me to have that conversation and engage accordingly.

19:02 Yeah.

19:01 Now, sometimes just so the person was just a jerk.

19:04 Turns out, yeah,

19:06 but I'd always rather heir

19:08 on the side of assuming the best in someone and being proven wrong

19:12 than air on the side of assuming the worst and being proven wrong.

19:16 I think that's so true that just if you can keep in your mind those may,

19:20 you know, rather than they are exactly what you think they are.

19:24 Yeah.

19:24 And sometimes maybe they are.

19:27 Yeah.

19:26 But maybe they're not.

19:28 But it's the same thing when you're managing people.

19:30 Someone comes in

19:32 and they've been like five minutes late to work for two weeks straight.

19:37 And because I'm not criticizing consistently, I wait until I'm really upset.

19:44 Yeah.

19:43 And I just rip into them like,

19:45 "Do you not care about this job?

19:47 Like why do you think it's okay to disrespect us by coming and fight?" Right.

19:52 Charitable Assumption would be like, "Hey, what's going on?

19:57 Are you okay?

19:58 Like, I've noticed you're 5 minutes late every single day,

20:00 and is there a reason?" And by the way, maybe it's because that person,

20:06 I'm speaking, New York right now, lives in Queens,

20:09 and there's two different buses that get them to Manhattan on time.

20:14 One would have them arriving at the restaurant an hour early.

20:17 One has them arriving 5 minutes late, and they have to get their kids to school.

20:21 Okay, now I've just shift your time back 15 minutes.

20:31 And now that relationship, had I reacted the first way,

20:35 it would have been damaged, right?

20:37 Reacting the second way, now it's actually stronger.

20:40 Yeah.

20:40 Cuz now they feel like I'm actually invested in them,

20:43 not just as an employee, but as a human being.

20:46 And you gave them some grace.

20:47 Yeah.

20:47 And I learned something along the way.

20:49 Right.

20:49 And that in itself can be unreasonable.

20:54 Yeah.

20:52 Which which is um I think the the state of things sometimes it doing

20:59 the kind thing can be and feel unreasonable to the given to the given moment.

21:05 Now you have managed I mean just the number of teams

21:10 and the number of pressure and I have heard your story

21:14 of how love Madison part had just went under your helm

21:21 to the number one restaurant in the world which is just bonkers right

21:26 but the level of determination not for just

21:31 the food being perfect or this being perfect is

21:34 that you cared just as much about your team

21:37 as you did about the people that you're serving.

21:39 And so there are people that will be

21:40 listening to this who have their own business,

21:43 who are small business owners or big

21:45 business owners that they they're people managers.

21:48 And so what I was really curious about,

21:50 what are some of the questions and things

21:53 that we need to think about as people managers?

21:56 So what what are some of your big like tenants?

22:00 You're going, "Hey, if I have everybody on hand,

22:02 I know you have what do you call it?

22:04 Premill.

22:06 Premill.

22:05 Yeah.

22:05 So, those kind of like meetings, how do you how can we better manage people?

22:11 Well, okay, let's start with premeal because

22:13 that's one of my favorite places to start.

22:16 Yep.

22:16 And I'll frame what that is.

22:17 So, preill is the 30-minute meeting we have every day with our entire

22:20 team right before we unlock the doors and go into service.

22:24 And it's a meeting that most restaurants have.

22:26 And yet, it is one that is almost always wasted.

22:31 um in a wasted primal that happens when well you spend

22:35 the entire time talking about ideas that could easily be communicated

22:40 via an email like operational concerns because that meeting it's called

22:46 a daily huddle right in other worlds is in my view

22:50 the greatest opportunity a leader has to actually

22:52 step up and lead the people around them.

22:55 So, it's taking our our daily huddles seriously.

22:59 Taking it very seriously.

23:00 Okay.

23:00 For the regular mom and pop business, the small business out there,

23:03 when you have one, it's understanding daily huddles are a necessity.

23:08 Yeah.

23:08 Um, do do you require that it be every day or is it

23:12 I mean, listen, I I never when I'm

23:13 talking to people in other industries, I never want

23:18 um perfect to be the enemy of the good.

23:21 A cadence that works.

23:22 A cadence that works.

23:23 And the cadence should be more frequently than you're comfortable with.

23:29 Oh, that's a good basis.

23:30 Well, because most people when they start doing

23:33 this, they kind of start it somewhat the bare minimum.

23:37 Yeah.

23:37 And there is always time to do something if

23:39 we decide it's an important enough thing to do.

23:42 Got it.

23:42 Um I did 30 minutes a day before lunch and before dinner,

23:45 so an hour a day, 7 days a week.

23:47 That is obviously not necessary, right?

23:49 But some number of minutes.

23:51 And when you have your team circled, it's not just focusing on the what,

23:55 but on the how and more importantly the why.

24:00 Mhm.

23:59 When as a leader, we are walking through

24:02 the world looking for things that inspire us

24:06 so that we can bring them home and share them with our teams.

24:08 it like I'm I've benefited from the popularity of TED talks

24:15 and yet I think those are so

24:16 successful because as human beings we crave inspiration.

24:22 Yeah.

24:21 And very few people in our lives have answered

24:24 the call to actually step up and inspire us.

24:27 So many companies spend so much time focusing on training,

24:31 which is important obviously

24:33 and yet training absent inspiration is wholly insufficient because I don't

24:38 care how much how well you know how to do a job.

24:42 If you're not inspired to want to do it really well,

24:45 you're never going to bring your most fully realized self to the table.

24:49 I think a lot of leaders, even the ones that have that meaning,

24:53 there's something about people that holds them back

24:56 from bringing their most passionate self to it.

25:00 Mhm.

25:00 Because we've all been in the receiving end of this at some point.

25:03 Like passion is contagious.

25:06 If someone steps up in front of you and speaks with every ounce of their being,

25:10 why the work you are doing matters, how you can impact other people,

25:14 why taking it seriously is a virtuous approach to take,

25:20 why there's fun to be had or connections to be made, whatever it is.

25:28 Yeah.

25:28 I don't think a lot of people can like fully understand that.

25:30 I I think communication with your team,

25:35 people need to stop trying to be so cool and just

25:37 be really really really excited because that bleeds into those around them.

25:43 That's hard for some people.

25:44 I mean, I'm I'm thinking of like you have a the history

25:50 of what you've created empowered and gave autonomy to your team to say, "Hey,

25:57 when you see those magical moments that we

25:59 can create unreasonable hospitality when you overhear

26:01 that table talk about going sledding or wishing

26:06 they had a you call it dirty dog, dirty water dog,

26:09 dirty water dog, you know, the hot dog and you're like, you know,

26:11 how can we create these and cultivate these experienc es with them that is

26:16 exciting because it's like you don't know every day is a new adventure

26:21 of what could come up and so that unexpected surprise and I hear

26:25 in my mind those people who I don't know they're a plumbing industry or they're

26:34 they're a fabrication shop or they're

26:36 a small accounting business you know of ways

26:40 that they go that sounds great but I'm not in a restaurant how can

26:44 I possibly get excited about the fact that we do this and that and this when

26:50 what I hear you saying is you're focusing on the wrong objective.

26:55 You're what you need to be focusing on is what are ways

26:58 that you can inspire yourselves to be excited about what you're doing.

27:04 And if you're excited,

27:06 yeah,

27:06 other people are going to be excited.

27:07 People around you will be too.

27:08 But but here's the thing.

27:09 It's not just a restaurant thing.

27:11 I think there's nobility in service.

27:16 Mhm.

27:15 And I'd say 9.9 out of 10 of the people

27:18 that are listening to this are in the service industry.

27:21 Yeah.

27:21 They're in the business of serving other people.

27:23 Like I am.

27:24 I think about the world that you came from.

27:29 Yeah.

27:28 I would love to run a daily huddle in a law firm.

27:33 Well, you can do it for me, my man.

27:35 No, but do you know what I mean?

27:36 Like

27:38 Yeah.

27:37 So many people focus so much on the objective

27:40 that they forget about the people they

27:41 are there to serve and the anxiety

27:44 and trepidation with which they're walking into that room.

27:47 You are there to defend them,

27:48 but you are also there to walk

27:50 with them through an unbelievably scary experience.

27:55 Yeah.

27:54 And remembering that it is much more

27:57 than pleading a case.

27:59 Yeah.

27:59 It's actually like defending a human being during some of their darkest moments.

28:03 And if that is not noble, I don't know what is.

28:06 But I'm saying I could do that about any industry

28:09 because I genuinely believe everything matters.

28:12 It's just about how you look at your world

28:14 and how you celebrate the impact you can make.

28:17 Before we continue, I want to take a moment to talk to you about our place.

28:21 Got a question for you.

28:22 When's the last time you've thought about what you're cooking with?

28:26 In other words, the pan itself.

28:27 Are you still using that pan from college?

28:30 Well, let me tell you, you can upgrade.

28:33 We love at our house in our kitchen, our place,

28:37 they have this four-piece cookware set where it's like two,

28:39 what they call always pans and two perfect pots.

28:43 And they're awesome.

28:44 Let me tell you why they're awesome.

28:45 Because Saturday mornings is dad breakfast.

28:49 And what I very much value a pan on is if I can do an egg,

28:52 put some butter in there or oil and have an egg go perfectly.

28:57 Well, you can with this always pan.

29:00 It's my number one go-to.

29:01 aside from the cast iron that we keep in the back and it's been fantastic.

29:06 So, if you are somebody who also cares about what you cook with, in other words,

29:11 it's nothing that's like Teflon,

29:13 PFAS, what they call forever chemicals,

29:15 something that's clean and you know it's going to do good for you.

29:18 Look no further than our place.

29:20 So, stop cooking with toxic cookware and upgrade to our place today.

29:24 You can go to from ourplace.com/jfferson.

29:28 Use code Jefferson for up to 10% off sitewide.

29:31 Plus, you get a 100day risk-free trial

29:34 with free shipping and returns, which is awesome.

29:36 That's from ourplace.com/jfferson for up to 10% off.

29:41 Code Jefferson.

29:42 Now, let's keep going.

29:43 I want to make sure we don't leave without me feeling like this.

29:46 We we button this up.

29:48 So when it comes to communicating and people managing in teams, yes,

29:53 one is you need to have take seriously

29:56 the a repeatable cadence of communication with your team.

29:59 Does it need to be in person or can it be virtual?

30:01 You think I think it could be virtual.

30:03 Okay.

30:03 It just needs whatever it is, it has to be consistent

30:05 and it needs to be you need to be prepared for it.

30:08 Is there a certain way that you run the meeting in terms of we're going

30:11 to talk about this, this, and this or is it just kind of top of mind?

30:15 Well, so the way I always did it, I had notes that every single person

30:19 on the team would be given a piece of paper.

30:21 Oh, you give them a note.

30:22 Yeah.

30:23 And the paper was kind of everything,

30:24 all the stuff I needed to make sure they knew.

30:29 Okay.

30:29 Depending on the company and the industry, it's different, right?

30:32 Like

30:32 health insurance enrollment begins on this day.

30:35 This policy changed.

30:36 This is a new system we're implementing.

30:38 D.

30:39 Now they have all the information I

30:41 needed to communicate literally in their hands.

30:43 Mhm.

30:44 No one can ever say

30:45 I didn't give it to I didn't get the email

30:47 or I didn't check the portal or whatever.

30:49 It's literally in their hands.

30:52 If I have a few housekeeping notes,

30:54 I'll say that at the top and then I will come

30:56 in to that meeting prepared in the same way that I am now.

31:03 When I step up on a stage, right,

31:05 I'll say, "All right, I want to tell you guys a story of something

31:07 that happened to me last week and d I'll tell the story.

31:11 Anyone doing anyone who's ever done public speaking

31:13 knows stories make ideas stick and then I'll talk

31:17 about the lesson that I learned from it and then we'll talk about it as a group.

31:23 How do you end it?

31:24 I would always end with this.

31:25 The the way the meeting started would be what's today?

31:29 Uh

31:30 April Wednesday.

31:32 Yeah.

31:32 So I would always say happy Wednesday.

31:33 The entire group would say back in unison, happy Wednesday.

31:36 Just to start it.

31:37 Yeah.

31:38 And then at the very end, I would say,

31:40 "Have a good service." And they'd all say back, "Have a good service."

31:42 Good service.

31:43 Okay.

31:44 Just because I believe in rhythms and rituals.

31:46 Well, I mean, there's there's there's a reason why people will

31:49 say turn to the person next to you and say, you know,

31:53 I believe in this, you know, whatever it is.

31:55 When people say it together, there is a feeling of that unison.

31:58 And that

31:59 also like when you watch one of those locker room speeches at halftime

32:02 in a movie and the team comes back and wins the day,

32:05 let's go.

32:05 It's so fired up because at the end they put their hands in.

32:08 Right.

32:08 Exactly.

32:09 Yeah.

32:11 Yeah.

32:10 I would always say every day is the Super Bowl.

32:13 Like every day you walk into service,

32:15 you need to take it seriously as the biggest game of your life.

32:17 Otherwise, there's people you're serving that might be

32:19 the only time they ever come into the restaurant.

32:22 Yeah.

32:22 So, you better take it seriously for them.

32:25 Yeah.

32:24 And there's something beautiful about team sports.

32:26 And I think it's remarkable to me how many

32:30 leaders played team sports in high school and college

32:32 and yet don't take some of the lessons they

32:34 learned from team sports into how they lead a team.

32:38 I can see that.

32:39 I think it I I more and more believe that managing people is a very

32:45 particular skill that is a skill that can

32:47 be learned but it is not easily taught.

32:50 like it's not something that without kind of being plugged

32:54 into a system where you get shown how to do it.

32:59 Yeah.

32:58 It's it can feel kind of like you're in a lost place.

33:01 Like I hear you saying, "Okay, I have a I have a way that I start.

33:04 I have a way that I end.

33:07 Whatever industry, you create it how you want to create it.

33:09 Say what you want to say."

33:12 Yes.

33:11 Be as goofy and as you and genuine as you want to be,

33:15 but you there's some things that you're going to have to hit.

33:17 And I love that you go,

33:18 I'm giving you the information that I already know in black and white.

33:21 You got to have to have two,

33:23 I get to talk of what's on my heart and put it in a story cuz

33:27 everybody's got stories because we all live

33:29 and you can just say what you did yesterday,

33:31 but relate that to the point that you're wanting to hit home,

33:34 whether it's something that is specific to a special

33:36 moment or a way that they have created impact.

33:40 Yes.

33:40 And so I think even if a company were to

33:44 pull up their latest Google review and read it to their team

33:48 like you know I mean just to go just as a reminder

33:51 that person you touched is this is how this is

33:54 like and also like finding and seizing

33:57 and talking about inspiration is a practice.

33:59 It's a muscle that you strengthen.

34:00 You don't need it right away.

34:02 like in the beginning, hey,

34:04 I was listening to Jefferson's podcast yesterday

34:06 and he said this and it stuck with me and I want to share with all of you.

34:11 Tell me uh how you react to it, right?

34:14 Yeah.

34:14 That's a great premeal.

34:16 Mhm.

34:16 Cuz now you're actually flexing your brain and when

34:18 you think together and dream together and create together,

34:20 it brings people closer.

34:22 Yeah.

34:22 The other thing I would always do,

34:24 I worked Monday through Friday.

34:27 Okay.

34:26 Very, very long days.

34:27 We're still open on the weekends.

34:29 Now, what's what's a long day?

34:31 9:00 a.m.

34:32 to midnight.

34:33 Okay.

34:33 Yeah, that's a long day.

34:34 Yeah, that would count

34:36 for a long long time, right?

34:37 Sure.

34:38 Um on Saturday when you got the schedule

34:42 Mhm.

34:42 there would be a star next to one person every Saturday,

34:46 which meant you're running Premill.

34:50 Oh.

34:49 And that gave them heads up because I

34:51 do believe public speaking is a leadership skill.

34:54 Yeah.

34:54 And also once you've delivered that speech and you

34:58 know how hard it is to do it well,

35:01 you're going to be one of the most attentive

35:03 people next time you're on the receiving end of it, right?

35:06 And so the more you can push people outside

35:08 of their comfort zone and have them actually lead,

35:10 the more ready they are to become leaders when their days arrive.

35:12 I love that.

35:13 So actually changing who gets to lead it,

35:16 like whoever is doing it and you're getting to change every single time.

35:19 Man, I I think that's a great um idea

35:23 for people to have for every team meeting that they have.

35:26 Somebody else run it.

35:29 Yeah.

35:27 Because then then you all share in both the privilege

35:32 and the horror and you know and the anxiety of

35:37 leading and and then it doesn't go, oh great, okay,

35:40 we got Greg again reading, you know, leading meeting here.

35:44 It's okay.

35:44 It's Lisa's turn.

35:45 Oh, it's a different breath of air.

35:48 You know,

35:49 there's always that quiet person on the team.

35:52 Yeah.

35:52 And sometimes they will stand up in front of the team and just stun people.

35:56 Knock their socks off.

35:57 And then the confidence like anyone you've ever seen

36:00 that steps up on stage for the first time.

36:04 Yeah.

36:03 And is celebrated for the work they did, it changes their confidence level.

36:09 Yeah.

36:09 And that confidence spills over into everything they do.

36:12 Right.

36:12 I think that's sometimes the beauty of like inside jokes.

36:16 Yeah.

36:16 you know, uh because it's something that we share.

36:21 Yes.

36:22 And because we can kind of riff off each other

36:25 and have that level of bond like if it's two people

36:29 whether it's you know they're look working on what is the cold

36:33 line or what and they're like trying to you know what I mean

36:36 and they're or they're prepping for the day like just to have

36:39 that sense of you have to find ways to make the mundane fun.

36:44 Yes.

36:45 And sometimes that to me is the same thing we do in conversation.

36:49 Like we have a dang makes you feel like an insider.

36:54 Yeah.

36:53 And that's what we all want.

36:54 We all want to feel like we're a part of something.

36:57 And the fewer people that are a part of it,

36:59 the more special it feels to be a part of it, right?

37:02 Like that's why I love creating words within an organization

37:06 like or isms like charitable assumption or we used to have all

37:12 these little like if you let's say if I sell at a restaurant

37:15 now we've become friends you come into the restaurant I'm not

37:18 there I'm just going to send a text Jefferson Fischer-t42-c crush him.

37:25 Yeah.

37:25 And what that mean everyone on my team would know what that means

37:27 which means like there's 17 different things

37:29 we can do to elevate someone's experience.

37:31 do as many of them as feels natural to what what he's doing there tonight.

37:35 Crush him.

37:35 Crush him.

37:36 I love that.

37:37 And if I were to say that to someone else,

37:38 they wouldn't even know what I was talking about, but to my team, it's clear

37:42 that they said that right there is going to have to be

37:44 a special experience for whoever is there that night at the table.

37:48 Or another one, this is actually feels like it fits into to your work.

37:52 Um DBC,

37:55 okay, was another one of our isms, which is Listen,

37:58 no matter what you do, restaurants are an extreme version of this highpaced.

38:04 Yeah.

38:03 You know, chaotic environments.

38:06 It's It was mad.

38:07 Yeah.

38:07 People can get into the weeds and and when you

38:09 get into the weeds and you start to get overwhelmed,

38:11 that's when you start making mistakes.

38:14 Yeah.

38:14 And that's when you need someone on your team

38:16 to tell you to chill out or calm down.

38:19 Right.

38:19 And yet, have you ever told someone who was overwhelmed to chill

38:23 out or calm down and had it achieve the desired effect?

38:28 Never.

38:28 Never.

38:29 So, DBC, one of my best friends, his name is Andrew Ter.

38:33 He and I went to preschool together.

38:35 He's still one of my best friends.

38:36 Okay.

38:37 He um he got a graduate degree in social work

38:42 and he does a lot of amazing work with kids and he

38:45 was working at a psychiatric hospital where there's a lot of kids

38:48 there and he felt like the therapists were just overprescribing sedatives

38:55 when kids were having difficult times.

38:57 So he went to his parents' basement where they still

39:00 had silk screening equipment from when he was a kid.

39:03 And he designed these really cool t-shirts

39:06 that just said in block letters DBC BC,

39:09 which meant the Deep Breathing Club.

39:12 And he wore one of them to the hospital.

39:14 And all the kids were like, "Dude, that's such a cool t-shirt." He goes,

39:16 "Do you want one?" And they're like,

39:17 "Yeah." And he goes, "Here's how you get one.

39:19 Here's how you get one." And all they had to do was overcome

39:22 a potential meltdown three times in a row

39:25 through deep breathing and deep breathing alone.

39:29 Okay.

39:29 6 months later, half the kids in the hospital were wearing DBC shirts,

39:32 and the amount of sedatives being prescribed had dropped dramatically.

39:37 Deep breathing club.

39:38 I brought him to the restaurant.

39:39 I had him lead preale a bunch of times over the course of a month.

39:43 And I said to the team, I was like,

39:44 "Guys, sometimes people here lose their cool.

39:47 They need to be told to calm down.

39:48 They need to be told to chill out.

39:50 And yet we all know that never feels good.

39:52 So we're just replacing the words.

39:55 Now it's DBC.

39:58 I love it.

39:58 And so literally every night someone would just walk over

40:01 to someone else and just whisper to their ears like,

40:03 "Hey DBC, I got you.

40:04 What can I do?" I love that.

40:06 And the simple change.

40:10 Yeah.

40:09 Yeah.

40:10 But like but also having somebody come alongside

40:12 you and be like, "Hey, I got you.

40:14 I got your back.

40:14 I've been there." Because and when you're back at house

40:20 Yeah.

40:19 and you have that chef or the And then

40:21 there's like it's just like the bear, right?

40:23 It's like you have people yelling and like

40:26 you realize in that moment they're just stressed out.

40:29 It's not who they are.

40:30 Their energy is impacting you negatively

40:32 as opposed to your energy impacting them positively.

40:34 Exactly.

40:35 You know, you worry about this.

40:36 I'll worry about And it gets into that.

40:38 I want to I want to know a little bit.

40:40 So, you co-produce FX the the bear.

40:44 Yes.

40:45 Which is just the wildest thing.

40:47 Again, I'm not a very often a jealous guy,

40:49 but you the creativity projects that you're in.

40:52 Oh, man.

40:52 I'm like, that's so cool.

40:54 All right.

40:55 So, I first I want to know, you know,

40:57 when you how do you get involved in this project?

41:00 And then how did you make sure that what is on film,

41:05 I know there's other writers and a a whole cast

41:08 of amazing people that are helping bring this to life.

41:10 Make sure that it reflects exactly kind of what was going on and what

41:14 you've seen in your whole experience

41:16 and live in Madison Park and everything else.

41:18 Well, so how I got invol I was not involved with the bear from day one, right?

41:23 Um I got to know Chris Stoer who's the creator of the bear.

41:26 Awesome.

41:27 Awesome guy.

41:28 That's cool.

41:29 Unbelievably creative.

41:30 And by the way, one of the most remarkable leaders,

41:34 like the way that every single person, regardless of position on that show,

41:39 is treated and how they all feel such a genuine

41:42 sense of ownership in the product as a whole.

41:46 Mhm.

41:46 And I want to share one thing they did in a moment to to reinforce that, but

41:51 they did the first season, all of a sudden it's a hit.

41:54 At this point, I'd gotten to know him a little bit,

41:56 and he came to the release party for Unreasonable Hospitality,

42:00 like the dinner that I had when the book first came out.

42:03 Then season two is about like 3 months from coming out,

42:06 and he emails me and they were doing all the editing in in Brooklyn.

42:10 He's like, "Hey, can you come out

42:11 to our offices some point in the next couple weeks?

42:14 I want to show you something." I was like, "Yeah." So,

42:16 I go out and they show me episode 7 of season 2.

42:19 It's called Forks.

42:20 Mhm.

42:21 And the entire episode is effectively right out of my book.

42:27 Okay?

42:26 And it's this beautiful episode, literally lines of of text.

42:31 There's things in the script that are verbatim what was in the book.

42:34 And this whole story, and my book has a famous story about a hot dog,

42:39 and it's reimagined as a deep dish pizza in the episode.

42:42 Yeah.

42:42 I want you to tell them tell them real quick the hot dog.

42:45 Yes.

42:45 I They need They need to hear it.

42:46 It's It's too good.

42:48 So the so the hot dog story, it's one of the stickiest out of the book.

42:54 And by the way, it

42:57 it's an example of why stories make ideas stick.

43:02 Yeah.

43:02 That happened with me in the restaurant as we

43:04 were really trying to figure out what unreasonable hospitality meant.

43:09 Mhm.

43:09 I'd written it down because I knew there was something in that approach

43:14 but didn't yet understand how it would be brought to life.

43:18 Meaning you wrote the words down.

43:20 I wrote the words down.

43:21 I want to be unreasonable in pursuit of hospitality.

43:24 Great.

43:25 And you have and you're managing 11 Madison Park at the time.

43:29 Yeah.

43:30 Yeah.

43:31 Okay.

43:31 Which for anybody who doesn't know is just the most amazing restaurant.

43:34 And it was already like at that point we had three Michelin stars.

43:37 We had all the stars, but I wanted to be the best.

43:40 That was Thank you.

43:40 Thank you.

43:41 That's mindblowing.

43:41 And what you were like top 20, something like that.

43:44 Well, I wrote those words down when we came in 50th.

43:47 That's right.

43:47 Of the 50 best.

43:48 Yeah.

43:49 Okay.

43:49 Which is still like

43:50 still, but that's just not how it works.

43:51 And in that room, I was last place.

43:54 Okay.

43:54 Yeah.

43:55 Anyway, one day I'm in the dining room and a busier than normal lunch service.

44:00 The team is in the weeds.

44:01 And so I was doing what I would always do when

44:04 I was helping out the I was just clearing dirty plates

44:08 mostly because my dad, one of the lessons he taught me when I was coming up,

44:11 he goes, "Hey, the further up in the hierarchy

44:14 you find yourself when you choose to help,

44:18 just do the most menial thing as often as you

44:20 can because it's a great way to communicate to your team

44:24 that you're never going to ask them to do

44:26 something you are either unwilling or incapable of doing yourself.

44:28 It's a great way to show your fire as a leader."

44:30 I love that.

44:31 So where is meaning the higher up you go in the hierarchy?

44:34 Yeah.

44:35 If it is as simple as gathering up a trash

44:38 can and rolling up and tying up the bag, just do it.

44:42 Like you need to show the signal that you're not above anything.

44:46 Yeah.

44:46 And you can also do it.

44:48 Exactly.

44:48 You're not going to ask them to do anything.

44:49 Yeah.

44:49 Like, hey, I'm not above it

44:51 and I can actually do it pretty well.

44:55 Yeah.

44:54 As I was clearing appetizers and it was this table of four.

44:57 They were foodies, like Europeans on vacation to New York,

45:01 but just to eat at restaurants.

45:02 Okay.

45:03 And this was their last meal.

45:04 They were headed straight to the airport from the restaurant to go back home.

45:08 Okay.

45:07 And while I was there,

45:08 I overheard them talking and they were just raving about their trip.

45:11 They'd been to all the fancy French four-star restaurants and now 11 Madison.

45:15 But then one woman at the table jumped in and she said, "Yeah,

45:19 but we never got to have a New York City hot dog."

45:22 And it was just one of those light bulb moments from a cartoon.

45:25 I went into the kitchen, dropped off the plates,

45:28 ran outside of the hot dog cart, bought a hot dog, ran back inside.

45:32 Then came the hard part,

45:34 convincing my fancy chef to actually serve it in our fancy restaurant,

45:38 but I asked him to trust me even more.

45:42 So, I told him it was important to me.

45:45 Yeah,

45:45 that that is another articulation we'd use a lot.

45:48 This is important to me.

45:50 I want to make sure I set that aside.

45:51 That's that is a big deal.

45:53 Like even in relationships, this is important to me.

45:56 Saying those words,

45:59 Yes.

45:58 is a different higher caliber of communication.

46:01 Yeah.

46:01 And so we can come back to that in a little bit.

46:03 And eventually he cut the hot dog up into four perfect pieces.

46:06 Put one on each of the plates.

46:07 Add a little swish of ketchup, one of mustard, a little scoop of sauerkraut,

46:10 one of relish, topped it off with a micro herb to make it look fancy enough.

46:15 And then before their final savory course,

46:18 which at the time was our honey lavender glazed

46:20 muscoi duck that had been dryaged for two weeks as one

46:24 as one as one eats for lunch on Wednesday.

46:26 I ate one yesterday.

46:27 Great.

46:28 I brought out what we in New York call a dirty water dog.

46:32 Okay.

46:31 And I explained I said, "Hey, I heard you talking.

46:34 I didn't want you to go home with any regrets.

46:36 Here's that New York City hot dog." And dude, they freaked out.

46:39 Did they just lose it?

46:40 I mean, at that point, I'd served really fancy food,

46:45 tens of millions of dollars worth of it,

46:46 at some of the best restaurants in the country.

46:49 I had never seen anyone react to anything I'd served them.

46:52 You serve like the highest quality of beef, seafood,

46:54 the top of the top of the top, and here you give

46:59 Yes.

46:58 a New York just off the street hot dog, and he just loses his mind.

47:02 Yeah.

47:03 And you know and and it's in those moments in so

47:08 many businesses every single day someone

47:11 does something spontaneously that is brilliant.

47:15 That's not what defines the company though.

47:18 What defines them is if they identify

47:20 that something great just happened and they slow down

47:23 for long enough to figure out why it just

47:25 happened so they can put intention to the intuition.

47:30 Yeah.

47:29 And it was it was a few simple things.

47:31 It required being present.

47:34 I wasn't listening.

47:36 Yeah.

47:37 Yeah.

47:37 I wasn't looking at what I needed to do next.

47:39 I was just so fully focused on that table that I stopped caring about

47:43 everything else and that's why I was able to pick up on the line.

47:47 Second, it required Yeah.

47:48 Obviously, we took what we did seriously.

47:52 Yeah.

47:51 But as a rule, I've never taken myself that seriously.

47:54 And I think far too many people in life or companies in business,

48:00 we're so focused on perfecting brands that we

48:04 are not focused enough on just pursuing people.

48:06 We end up with these self-imposed standards that effectively

48:09 disrupt our ability to give other people joy.

48:13 Yeah.

48:12 A hot dog is not on brand in a four-star restaurant.

48:15 No.

48:15 But who cares when you look at how it made them feel, right?

48:18 And then and then third,

48:20 like this idea that hospitality is just making other people feel seen.

48:28 And the best way to do it is not to treat people like a commodity.

48:32 One sizefits-all will only ever take you so far.

48:36 It's the same reason why at Christmas I

48:39 don't buy everyone in my family the same present.

48:42 I buy people individual presents based on who they are.

48:45 I imagine buying your wife the same present you did last year.

48:51 You like honestly I looked at your facial expression before

48:54 and it really seemed like it worked and thought I'd get it for you again.

48:58 Yeah.

48:59 Um but in unreasonable hospitality, one size fits one.

49:04 One size fits one.

49:05 And so those three things, be present, stop taking yourself so seriously.

49:08 One size fits one.

49:09 And that hot dog Yeah.

49:11 changed everything for us.

49:12 And what you do so well in the in the book

49:14 and the book is full it of these examples where you

49:18 go you could have just heard the conversation and go

49:22 a kind of blows for that guy didn't get a hot dog.

49:24 Okay next next table instead you said what if right and and built

49:28 off that and then you hired

49:30 somebody specifically for creating these magical moments.

49:33 Someone there is a resource to help everyone

49:36 yes create them.

49:37 Yeah,

49:37 because I think what's important is everyone on the team

49:40 needs to be empowered to come up with these ideas.

49:44 You just need to make it easy for them to deploy those ideas.

49:48 They have them.

49:49 Yeah.

49:49 And by the way, I mean, it happens to us all the time in life.

49:52 How many times have you seen something or thought like,

49:55 "Man, that would be really cool to do for this person.

49:58 Gosh, I'm too busy." Yeah.

50:01 and we hired a person onto the team just so all you had to do is say,

50:04 "Hey, Emily, can you do this?" And she would make it happen.

50:08 I'd say my habit is I'll say, you know, once this is done, then I will.

50:17 Like it's easy to go, this is just a really crazy week,

50:19 but after this I'll be able to get to that.

50:21 And then it's funny how there's always another.

50:24 Do you know I was in a I did a talk

50:29 and in the the meet and greet afterwards a guy came up.

50:32 He's like, you know,

50:33 we have this expression in my family and your speech really made me think of it.

50:37 Never let a gracious impulse pass.

50:41 And gosh, I love that.

50:42 That's that's some good stuff because how many times do you have them?

50:45 And when you have them, the whole idea is just do it.

50:49 Yeah.

50:48 And I was literally at the the Goodwill that weekend with my with my kids.

50:53 We call it the treasure store.

50:54 The treasure store.

50:56 It's pretty apt, too.

50:57 And basically, every so often we call it treasure store day.

51:02 Yeah.

51:02 We have to go up into the room and we take 10 things and we

51:05 go give them to the Goodwill and then they can buy one thing from the Goodwill.

51:09 Yeah.

51:11 Um and Andrew, the guy, the DBC guy,

51:14 when we were growing up, he loved the band Sublime.

51:17 And he would literally like busk on the streets playing Sublime songs.

51:20 and we're in the treasure store and I see

51:23 a Sublime t-shirt in his size uh as we're walk

51:27 like an old school Sublime t-shirt and I just

51:30 heard this guy say never let a gracious impulse pass.

51:33 If I'm being honest,

51:34 like a version of me would have seen that and been like, "Man,

51:38 Andy would like that, but I got to buy it and then I got to put it

51:41 in a box and go to the thing." And I would have just walked right past it.

51:45 But this I was like, "No, I had a gracious impulse.

51:47 I can't let it pass." I took off the thing

51:48 and sent it to him and he was like, "Dude,

51:51 that was the coolest gift."

51:52 Isn't that awesome?

51:53 It took all of 15 minutes and probably $2

51:56 just to have that.

51:57 But just do it.

51:58 When you have a gracious impulse, do it.

52:01 So recognizing those those gracious impulses, not just in relationship,

52:05 but also in your own business of the way

52:08 business and life.

52:09 Yeah.

52:10 I think when you again in the book to me it's like if you

52:16 ever wonder which one's Wills in the store

52:18 just look for the brightest yellow one.

52:20 That's the one dude.

52:22 That's the one that that's the one to get.

52:24 You need to go get it.

52:25 It's like every yellow one.

52:27 Yeah.

52:28 Just whatever.

52:29 Uh by the way, have you I would assume you love this.

52:33 I would assume you know him.

52:34 I don't know him.

52:35 Maybe one day of the guy who started the Savannah Bananas.

52:39 Oh yeah, Jesse Cole.

52:41 Yes.

52:41 Okay.

52:42 Also yellow.

52:43 He is amazing by the way.

52:45 But I mean like that's like right up.

52:46 You're kind of spoke at my conference in New York last year.

52:50 Okay.

52:50 Well then there you go.

52:52 And I see a lot of like parallels with just

52:54 and their work is very very similar to ours.

52:57 Just

52:58 three Michelin star restaurant and a minor league baseball team

53:02 and how they kind of came closer to one another.

53:04 Yeah.

53:05 And I think that's that's just one of the many

53:08 examples in which any business I think can do this.

53:10 And I know y'all train a lot of these

53:13 businesses where you go out a lot of service industry folks of

53:17 how can you cuz they need a little bit of help.

53:20 They need a little bit bit of push to be like I

53:23 we just need to get some of that unrable.

53:27 Yeah.

53:27 Yeah.

53:28 Yeah.

53:28 Yeah.

53:28 It reminds me of my dad and I love O brother though cuz it's just so quotable.

53:33 Yes.

53:33 and he goes, "We need to get some of that reform." And so he's like,

53:37 cuz the other guy's a reform candidate and they're like,

53:39 "Maybe we need to get us a little reform." So that's, you know,

53:43 sometimes you just, you need that push

53:44 because sometimes you need somebody on the outside.

53:48 For sure.

53:49 It's just easier.

53:49 You see things with fresh eyes.

53:51 Before we keep going, I want to take a moment to tell you about Upwork.

53:54 You grow, you and your business grow, not by doing more things,

53:57 but by doing the right things and letting go of the rest.

54:01 And I know what I struggle with.

54:02 sometimes in several businesses that I've begun is that delegation is

54:07 a problem because I would rather sometimes spend way too long,

54:11 too many hours trying to look up how to do something

54:13 or work some other platform when I could have just gone to Upwork.

54:17 Upwork has a selection of seriously some of the best

54:21 freelancers out there for everything you could possibly want to do.

54:25 I'm talking about data and analytics,

54:27 software and development, marketing, business operations,

54:30 people who want to do a logo or video editing or help with a brand.

54:34 You name it, they're all there.

54:36 And so, what's so great is that instead

54:38 of spending weeks of trying to research something, Upwork already has them.

54:42 It has a full profile.

54:43 You can see all the work they've done.

54:44 You can see their portfolios for things.

54:46 I've hired people from Upwork and I have not been disappointed.

54:50 So, if you want the best of the best,

54:52 Upworks Business Plus gives you access to the top 1% of talent with AI

54:56 powered matching that connects you with the right freelancer in under 6 hours.

55:02 That's pretty incredible.

55:03 It also handles contracts and payments all in one place,

55:06 which means less admin for you, which means happier life for you as well.

55:10 So, thousands of businesses are already using Upwork to scale smarter.

55:14 It's free to sign up and posting a job is simple.

55:16 Visit upwork.com right now and post your job for free.

55:19 That's upwork.com to connect with top talent ready to help your business grow.

55:24 That's upw.com.

55:27 upwork.com.

55:28 Let's keep going.

55:30 But so, okay, back to the bear.

55:33 Yeah.

55:32 They asked me to go out there and they show me this episode.

55:36 Okay.

55:36 And literally at one point the guy is walking holding my book

55:40 and reading it like voraciously in the episode and they're like,

55:44 "Is this cool?" Effectively, they asked me to go out there to say,

55:47 "Is this cool that we used a lot of stuff from your book?" And

55:51 I was like, "Well, yeah, obviously it's cool.

55:52 It's beyond cool.

55:53 I'm so flattered.

55:54 This is amazing."

55:55 Like, my book is now in one of the hottest television shows in America.

56:00 And that's when they were going from the little beef

56:02 stand and they were about to open a proper restaurant.

56:05 And in the same meeting, they're like, "Also,

56:07 can you join the team and be a writer and a producer

56:10 as we move into this next season?" I was like, "Well, heck yeah.

56:15 You know those moments where I'm like I don't know how much you're paying me.

56:18 I don't care.

56:20 The answer is yes.

56:21 Yeah.

56:21 Am I awake?

56:22 And man, it is so fun.

56:24 Your question was, "How did I ensure that things were actually real?" Yeah.

56:29 And it's television, so it's all dramatized a little bit.

56:32 Yeah.

56:32 But it's I I mean, as close as it can get to what it really is.

56:36 And And I think it circles back to the culture on that show.

56:40 Mhm.

56:43 Like I mean some of the actors on that show are now phenomenal.

56:47 Not only phenomenal but also really famous.

56:53 Yeah.

56:52 Right.

56:52 And when people get really famous often times they stop being as good

56:59 at listening or they don't necessarily feel the need to learn as much.

57:04 No one on that cast is like that.

57:06 Mhm.

57:08 Um, I mean, there was one episode one of season 3, Carmy,

57:15 the chef, picks up a tray to bust a table in the morning.

57:21 And I was like, "Are you cool if I show

57:24 you the right way to do that?" And he's like,

57:26 "Yes, please." Something that simple.

57:29 He just wanted to know what Wright looked like.

57:31 Because if you've been in the restaurant business like

57:34 he like his character had been you would know

57:36 the right

57:36 the right way to do it or how to expo like I did expo classes or

57:41 um I mean the most fun thing is I basically

57:43 got to design a restaurant and never have to run it

57:47 you know like the plates and the florals and

57:50 there's all these stories within the story

57:51 that most people would never even notice.

57:53 But but I mean how cool is that?

57:54 You just get to kind of live in that that creativity.

57:57 So, I I want to make sure that I I don't you don't leave

58:01 without me asking some of these is I I know I could text you,

58:05 but this is too good of when you're thinking, you know,

58:10 the the the hot dog moment and all the other stuff in your book.

58:14 I love the one with the the sled of like all these others.

58:18 is what made the difference is you led

58:24 and empowered your team by example to listen.

58:29 Yes.

58:28 None of that happens without having the specific and right ear for it.

58:34 Yeah.

58:33 Because you're not you're not listening to the conversation.

58:37 You're listening to the need.

58:40 Yes.

58:40 That is almost unspoken.

58:42 Yeah.

58:42 And so it's not like the guy said, "Man,

58:44 you know what would be great if somebody brought

58:46 me a hot dog?" You know what I mean?

58:48 And he didn't say that.

58:49 He just And so you heard the need that wasn't even exactly spoken.

58:56 And I feel like in conversation

58:58 and in teams and with, you know, especially with customers, clients,

59:03 you're having to have the right to train your ear for the right kind of needs.

59:09 And so I don't How did you do that?

59:12 What did you teach them to listen for anything?

59:15 Well, yeah.

59:16 And by the way, I mean, you know this better than anyone.

59:19 You're listening not just with your ears, right?

59:22 Like I I think I have found that you can teach

59:27 people how to do something and you can be like, "Hey,

59:31 if someone says this, like just go back

59:35 in in the conversation before you even arrived there,

59:38 like where did that thing come from?

59:40 You might not have heard it, but and where could it go next?" the sledding.

59:46 Someone says, "Our kids have never seen snow before." Yeah.

59:50 Okay.

59:50 So, where does that go next?

59:52 What could it be?

59:53 What could it be?

59:54 Like, I think the best experiences are when you dream of the world

59:58 you wish existed and then you invite someone else into your imagination.

1:00:03 That's a good one.

1:00:04 So, like, all right, they've never seen snow.

1:00:06 These are kids.

1:00:07 What do kids love doing in the snow?

1:00:09 Sledding.

1:00:10 Oh my gosh.

1:00:11 Let's go buy them sleds right now.

1:00:13 Yeah, these spontaneous moments,

1:00:16 but then even the things that you don't hear, I mean,

1:00:19 the the stories that get celebrated the most out

1:00:21 of the book are the more over the top ones, but like

1:00:25 you can tell when someone's on a first date, right?

1:00:28 The moment you go over and greet them at the table,

1:00:30 like it's pretty clear when you've done it long enough.

1:00:34 Um, and you can tell without having to be

1:00:37 at the table whether the first date is going really well.

1:00:41 Mhm.

1:00:42 or whether they're just struggling to find their groove.

1:00:44 You can tell when people are talking to one another

1:00:46 a ton or when there's just a bit of awkward silence.

1:00:50 Okay, so unreasonable hospitality doesn't mean having to buy a hot dog.

1:00:54 It could mean gosh, this guy is having a hard time getting a conversation going,

1:01:00 I'm going to go hang out with them at the table for a little bit, okay?

1:01:03 And I'm just going to start talking to them and I'm

1:01:05 going to try to get them laughing and I'm going to try

1:01:07 to get them each to put their guards down and then I'm

1:01:09 going to leave and hopefully I've gotten them up to enough of a I love this.

1:01:13 Okay.

1:01:13 I love this.

1:01:14 So that's what this is my brain's going

1:01:17 is it's it's not just listening with your ears.

1:01:21 It's also listening with your eyes.

1:01:23 Yeah.

1:01:24 Whereas every time with a customer or a co-orker or somebody coming

1:01:29 into your restaurant or somebody you're

1:01:31 in a relationship with, it's listening with your eyes.

1:01:34 How are they reacting?

1:01:35 And so you have the privilege in a restaurant

1:01:38 when you see some of the most intimate moments.

1:01:40 You go, "This date's not going well." Or somebody is fighting.

1:01:43 You can tell it's tense and they're having a hard time in their marriage maybe.

1:01:47 Or uh two guys who are talking about a business deal or something.

1:01:50 And just for that brief moment, the the staff is able to kind of the the waiter,

1:01:58 the waitress are able to kind of be able to curate something to say,

1:02:03 let me listen with my eyes here of what else is read.

1:02:07 Sometimes like based on what's happening over there,

1:02:10 maybe I should just stay away.

1:02:12 Yeah, that too.

1:02:13 Like they're having a really good How many times you went halfway

1:02:15 through a story at a restaurant and someone comes over and says,

1:02:18 "How's it going?" You're like, "Can you just leave me alone right now?

1:02:22 You just ruined the punch line." Yeah.

1:02:24 The the worst is like when you're in serious conversation and some cheery

1:02:29 young guy comes in fight with your wife and you're like, "My man,

1:02:32 I'm Can you not see that?" Like we're hanging on by a thread right here.

1:02:37 We You're barely holding on.

1:02:40 No, just I don't I don't need a refill.

1:02:43 You're good.

1:02:44 Yeah.

1:02:45 There's There's those moments, too.

1:02:46 But it's like when you when you can also listen like listen with your eyes

1:02:51 and see the reactions of other people and how does that translate to when

1:02:54 you see that person who is running 5 minutes late and they look frantic

1:03:00 or they look hurt or there's things going on you can tell beneath that surface.

1:03:03 It's it's not just going well you didn't say anything but you saw it.

1:03:08 I mean, it's the same thing in life, though.

1:03:10 Like, how how many times you invite people over to your place?

1:03:14 And if you actually just take a moment in tension

1:03:18 and just look at everyone in the room,

1:03:21 you can pretty quickly tell the person that just feels awkward.

1:03:27 Yeah.

1:03:27 Maybe they just don't know anyone and they're

1:03:29 not good at starting a conversation with them.

1:03:31 They feel out of place.

1:03:32 It is so easy to just be the person.

1:03:35 Never let a gracious impulse pass.

1:03:38 that walks over and says, "Hey, Joe, come here.

1:03:40 I want to introduce you to Jefferson." Yeah.

1:03:43 You guys both play the drums, right?

1:03:46 That's unreasonable hospitality.

1:03:47 But you just you cared enough to identify what needed

1:03:50 to be done and then to do something with what you saw.

1:03:55 Yeah.

1:03:54 And like I'm just saying it exists everywhere.

1:03:57 It just But it's so cool when you get to do that for other people.

1:04:00 So why not just do it all the time?

1:04:03 Yeah.

1:04:04 Well, why not?

1:04:05 Why not just do it every day?

1:04:06 I made it.

1:04:07 Yeah, I think it's all the time.

1:04:09 I I truly think the world would be just so much more fun.

1:04:12 And I think when you can find ways to be more spontaneous, more creative.

1:04:18 Yeah.

1:04:21 Um, you know, like what I would often try and do is just have

1:04:24 conversations in the most random of places just to like just switch it up.

1:04:29 even if it's at like an ice cream shop like just you know like

1:04:33 I when I first was starting my um the new law firm that's what

1:04:37 I did I would try and have a conversation with the client of like

1:04:41 I was like you don't want to go sit in my office let's go

1:04:44 let's go sit somewhere at this I know a lot

1:04:46 of people do a coffee shop or like I would do

1:04:48 a park or it just because let me show you

1:04:51 that if I can at least bring a little bit of 100%

1:04:55 you know why I like this park this park reminds me of this time

1:04:57 I was with my dad and I did this and like just to be able

1:05:00 to share a little bit of that context and story is enough for them

1:05:04 to trust you more than any degree they'd see on the wall in your office.

1:05:11 Well, and also you just said something that makes me think of two things.

1:05:15 One, I don't mean to talk about Andrew this much,

1:05:18 but he's he's a therapist now, and he doesn't do therapists in an office.

1:05:22 He lives in the Hudson Valley, and there's two ways to see him.

1:05:26 You can either go on a hike with them or you can go skiing with them.

1:05:30 Skiing?

1:05:30 Yeah.

1:05:30 Oh my goodness.

1:05:31 How do you On the lift?

1:05:32 Oh, on the lift.

1:05:35 That's awesome.

1:05:35 I'm terrified of ski lifts, but

1:05:37 So then go you you do the I'll do the you do the hike.

1:05:40 I'll do the hike.

1:05:40 Yeah.

1:05:40 Or you do cross country.

1:05:43 But also what you're doing, you're bringing them to a park.

1:05:45 You're changing the environment.

1:05:46 I think a lot of communication is

1:05:49 I mean for me communication is about connection.

1:05:53 Yeah.

1:05:52 And connection happens when people let their guards down.

1:05:55 And part of that is earning informality.

1:05:57 And just changing an environment into uh less formal environment

1:06:04 is a way to fasttrack the idea of earning informality.

1:06:10 Um but the other thing you do in offering

1:06:12 the thing about you and your dad and why you love

1:06:14 that part is you're offering up a piece of yourself which

1:06:17 is an invitation to them to do the same in return.

1:06:21 Yeah.

1:06:20 We did this thing.

1:06:22 I went to a restaurant in New York and on the menu it said,

1:06:26 "Don't tell us if you're allergic to anything.

1:06:28 We don't make substitutions in the food." I was like,

1:06:32 "Okay, this is unreasonable, but not unreasonably." That kind.

1:06:37 That's almost sounds illegal.

1:06:38 Yeah.

1:06:38 Like, it's just rude.

1:06:39 It's like, yeah.

1:06:41 And so, I went back to the restaurant.

1:06:42 I was like, I want to go I want to run hard in the opposite direction of that.

1:06:47 Obviously, we asked about allergies.

1:06:50 Yeah.

1:06:49 But this was a tasting menu.

1:06:51 certain people don't like certain things.

1:06:54 So, I was like, I want to spend the next month coming up

1:06:57 with endless permutations of everything we serve

1:07:01 so that at the beginning of the meal, we can say, "Are you allergic to anything?

1:07:04 Also, is there just anything you don't like

1:07:07 or anything you're not in the mood to eat tonight?

1:07:09 Let us know and we'll make sure you don't see it." That's a great one.

1:07:12 But here's the thing.

1:07:14 We started it and by the way, it took a long time and it was expensive because

1:07:19 took a long time for what?

1:07:20 to redesign an entire menu.

1:07:23 Oh, cuz if you have chicken that's served

1:07:24 with mushrooms and someone doesn't like mushrooms,

1:07:26 it's not a good experience just to remove the mushrooms.

1:07:29 So now you have to have an entirely different chicken dish to serve them.

1:07:33 Yeah.

1:07:33 Yeah.

1:07:33 But it was important to me.

1:07:35 And so we did all this work and then we started it.

1:07:39 Day one, no one told us a single thing they didn't like.

1:07:43 Day two, no one told us a single thing they didn't like.

1:07:45 So now we're just throwing away food that we've been prepping.

1:07:48 And I was like, "What is going on?" And so I took a station,

1:07:52 meaning I was a waiter on day three or four,

1:07:54 cuz sometimes the best way to solve a problem

1:07:56 is to actually just get in there yourself.

1:07:59 And again, first table, second table, third table, no one's telling me anything.

1:08:03 And I was like, I wonder if it's this, which

1:08:08 is this was like Anthony Bourdain had his show,

1:08:10 and there all these shows about people

1:08:12 traveling around the world eating weird stuff.

1:08:13 I was like, maybe people just don't think it's cool to not like stuff.

1:08:19 Oh, and they're embarrassed.

1:08:20 My son's really cool.

1:08:24 He's just straight butter noodles, man.

1:08:25 I can barely get him to eat anything, by the way.

1:08:27 I I that's that's a real experience for most of us right now.

1:08:30 For sure.

1:08:30 But but that's that's what you go maybe that they don't feel comfortable doing.

1:08:34 Well, so the next table I went over.

1:08:35 I said, "Is there anything at all you don't like?" And they're like,

1:08:37 "No." And I was like, "Can I tell you guys something?

1:08:40 I really don't like oysters and I really don't like sea urchin.

1:08:44 I was like, you didn't ask.

1:08:45 I just felt the need to share.

1:08:47 Yeah.

1:08:47 And they're like, you know what?

1:08:49 I actually don't like beets and I don't like whatever they said.

1:08:52 And all I needed to do was tell them something I didn't like.

1:08:56 Right.

1:08:56 And then they were like, oh, wait.

1:08:57 This is a safe space to talk about not liking stuff.

1:09:01 I'm not saying that not liking oysters is a display of profound vulnerability.

1:09:06 Right.

1:09:06 Right.

1:09:07 But just opening up about something

1:09:10 gave them permission to do the same in return.

1:09:12 And that's vulnerability.

1:09:13 It's vulnerability.

1:09:14 And that's you gave when you're saying I like this part because of this.

1:09:18 That guy's like, "Oh, we can actually connect on more of a human level, right?

1:09:23 All of a sudden it's that's it has nothing to do about degree or experience."

1:09:28 And it ends up that I mean they that's

1:09:30 just one element of many that they care about.

1:09:33 But see, a lot of people could have experience.

1:09:36 It's it's it's all the different stuff that they could you can

1:09:39 have of what's your your personality and I think I think that's awesome.

1:09:42 I mean and then by the way that person shares something with you

1:09:46 about their dad and then you go and you win the case and

1:09:50 a week later they get a little note from you acknowledging that about

1:09:53 their dad and maybe he said his dad was a big Dallas

1:09:56 Cowboys fan and so you put on a little Dallas Cowboys baseball

1:09:59 hat and you say what a pleasure it was to work with you.

1:10:01 Exactly.

1:10:01 just those little bitty like touch points.

1:10:04 And they're going to remember that Dallas Cowboys hat more than they're going

1:10:07 to remember the smart way that you argued their case in the courtroom.

1:10:14 This unreasonable hospitality field guide.

1:10:17 I'm so jealous of it.

1:10:18 I'm I'm going to keep telling you that one.

1:10:22 It is.

1:10:23 Thank you, by the way.

1:10:24 Yeah, absolutely.

1:10:25 Let me tell you why I love this thing.

1:10:27 I like your book about hospitality.

1:10:30 It's great.

1:10:31 the it really is.

1:10:33 It's also having written a self-help non-fiction book

1:10:38 and this is we're kind of in the same category.

1:10:41 Um what makes this so different is one it's kind of like soon

1:10:46 as you get it feels like it's uh I was in Cub Scouts.

1:10:51 Yeah.

1:10:51 And so it's very much a field guide like this.

1:10:53 It's like I it kind of looks like I should be learning how to like

1:10:56 build a fire or like some kn like certain types of you know overhand knots but

1:11:02 I can see I wish I had had this when I had the restaurant cuz one it's super

1:11:08 colorful so you did a really good job of making

1:11:10 it to where you want to read through it.

1:11:13 The illustrations are really cool.

1:11:14 Things change.

1:11:15 It doesn't look like it's just hoham and so the design of it

1:11:19 is really cool and that's probably just like my brand like self.

1:11:22 I I wanted so badly for a workbook about

1:11:25 hospitality to itself be hospitable and not feel like work.

1:11:29 And so the designer is this guy named Don Clark

1:11:31 who has literally worked with Pixar and NASA and Lego

1:11:36 and I convinced him to do this with me.

1:11:38 I if if I I'm telling you if there's anybody that I could just freaky Friday,

1:11:46 you know what I'm saying?

1:11:46 And just trade your life, man, that's that's what I would probably do.

1:11:51 like this one that I really really like.

1:11:53 Okay.

1:11:54 Uh that I had bookmarked.

1:11:56 So you have why is Joe struggling?

1:11:58 And this is like a decision tree.

1:11:59 Yeah.

1:12:00 And so I thought, oh my gosh, how many Joe's do we know of like

1:12:03 somebody on my team is struggling with something

1:12:05 and then you have this tree of Joe is

1:12:08 struggling because he doesn't care and he's not trying.

1:12:10 Like that's rarely the case.

1:12:12 Yeah.

1:12:12 But it's so easy to think they just don't care.

1:12:16 Yeah.

1:12:15 In relationship it's easy to first thing they say is we just don't care.

1:12:19 Okay.

1:12:19 And that's never the that's never the the truth.

1:12:21 Well, rarely if ever.

1:12:23 Joe is trying but still not s succeeding.

1:12:25 You have all these like different ways of if

1:12:28 it is true that he's struggling because he doesn't care,

1:12:30 fire Joe as fast as you possibly can.

1:12:32 If that's really Yeah.

1:12:33 If that's actually the reason, just fire him.

1:12:36 But is Joe is trying but not succeeding.

1:12:40 Yes.

1:12:39 Then it's all these like is it training?

1:12:41 Is it too much too fast?

1:12:42 Is something else going on?

1:12:43 It's like listening with your eyes kind of thing.

1:12:46 And I when I first looked at this, I was like, "Dude,

1:12:51 this is so cool." Like of of do you know if they're in the right role,

1:12:55 it talks all about on specifically what you had

1:12:58 um mentioned a minute ago of your rules for criticism.

1:13:01 You know, how do you have these teams together?

1:13:03 A lot of the things that you and I covered.

1:13:04 And so when I um I look at this one, I'm super jealous of it.

1:13:11 Number two is you're gonna help so many people with this thing.

1:13:16 Oh man, man.

1:13:17 You really really are.

1:13:18 And it and it's not at all for just restaurants.

1:13:24 No.

1:13:24 And and here I am sitting with somebody who was

1:13:27 part of the number one restaurant in the entire world.

1:13:29 I've never been.

1:13:30 One day I'm going to go.

1:13:32 I've never been.

1:13:33 One day.

1:13:33 I mean it's different now,

1:13:34 but I you got to go just to also I mean I love I am a foodie.

1:13:39 I just have kids.

1:13:40 You know what I'm saying?

1:13:41 And so it's like there's only so many places

1:13:43 we can go when we have kids cuz it's usually,

1:13:46 okay, where's a me go Italian place cuz I know they have noodles.

1:13:50 And dude, I took my I took my my kids to In-N-Out Burger here.

1:13:55 And I was like, all right, this is great.

1:13:56 I love In-N-Out Burger.

1:13:58 My kids are going to love In-N-Out Burger.

1:14:00 Like, this can be the connective tissue in our culinary relationship.

1:14:04 And we get there and my three-year-old's like, "Can we go to McDonald's?" Yes.

1:14:09 Oh my gosh.

1:14:10 Yes.

1:14:10 I was like I was like, "Guys, why why are you doing this to me?"

1:14:16 So, my uh back in our uh small town hometown

1:14:20 uh right in front of the Walmart is a Chili's.

1:14:23 And so, you know how you grew up thinking certain places?

1:14:27 Mine was Olive Garden.

1:14:28 I thought it was like the fanciest of the fanciest.

1:14:31 And so my we were in the car in the Uber and um we're

1:14:36 trying to find a place and my son was like I got an idea.

1:14:40 Y'all want to go chili?

1:14:42 I'm like he was like that's like the top of the line and we're like we'll if

1:14:48 we see one and so now if my daughter just raised if she sees a chili she's like

1:14:53 so that's just kind of become like also the McDonald's.

1:14:57 It really is.

1:14:57 We we we love it.

1:14:58 We love it.

1:14:59 I I want to this is why I also am really cool about these and

1:15:04 it's really cool when you come across somebody's work

1:15:07 and it makes you go like I really

1:15:09 want to just like redo everything I've ever done,

1:15:11 you know, like you you just kind of get that inspiration and things.

1:15:14 So it's like this this is just I'm reading in the middle of something.

1:15:17 It just goes go back to your mission statement.

1:15:19 What three strategies could you focus on right now?

1:15:22 And then it's just like has all the spaces for it.

1:15:25 And then it goes right into what might

1:15:27 a strategic planning meeting look like for you.

1:15:29 And just like you, it's banger after banger

1:15:32 of who's going to be in charge of it, how you going to do there,

1:15:35 where you gather like the the way that you have you talk about prey circles,

1:15:39 what how do you celebrate top performers.

1:15:43 Um I'm going to use this myself.

1:15:45 It's just super super cool.

1:15:47 Um and I could this is the kind of stuff that like I nerd out about secretly.

1:15:52 I'm just like this is so cool.

1:15:54 I think I think we're the same.

1:15:55 When I I recorded my audio book for the first book.

1:16:00 Yeah.

1:16:00 And then you remember doing this, right?

1:16:01 You record it all and then you go away and like

1:16:05 a month later you have to go back to do pickups.

1:16:08 Yes.

1:16:08 And the credits and that stuff.

1:16:10 In the month between recording it and doing pickups and the credits,

1:16:12 I listened to Green Lights Makana his book on audio.

1:16:16 I haven't listened on audio dude.

1:16:19 It's just a masterful audio book performance.

1:16:21 And I listened to that.

1:16:22 I was like, gosh, I wish I'd listened to this before I recorded my audio book.

1:16:27 And so I went and do the pickups.

1:16:29 And he just does so many creative things and how he delivers the material.

1:16:33 And I was like, I got to do something.

1:16:34 And meanwhile, I'd already started the practice of collecting observations when

1:16:38 I was writing the book and I didn't want it to stop.

1:16:40 And so on my phone, there was just a bunch of new things that I'd observations,

1:16:45 ideas, insights, and the book was done.

1:16:48 So, we get to the end of doing all the pickups and the credits,

1:16:51 and I said to the producer, I was like, "Hey, keep rolling.

1:16:54 I want to add something after the credits." Mh.

1:16:57 And he's like, "Well, you're not allowed to do that." And I was like,

1:17:00 "Just keep rolling." And so, I said, "Hey,

1:17:04 to whoever makes the decision about whether or not

1:17:07 there's allowed to be bonus material after the credits, this is important to me.

1:17:11 And if you've read the book, you know what that means.

1:17:14 My cell phone number is this.

1:17:15 Call me if you want to have a conversation about it." follow it

1:17:17 and I just did this whole Easter egg

1:17:19 and basically I was like, "Hey, are you still there?" Yeah, me too.

1:17:23 And did this whole like Easter egg at the end of the audio

1:17:25 book and it was just inspired by listening to someone else's work, right?

1:17:29 Being jealous, wishing I could do it all over again, but saying, "I can't,

1:17:33 but I can at least do this." But that that comes too from like

1:17:36 what's the takeaway is expose yourself to creativity.

1:17:40 like expose yourself to there's some people who go,

1:17:44 you know, there's the downside of reading

1:17:46 reading too many self-help and whatever.

1:17:48 And I agree, you can have too much if you're not acting on it,

1:17:52 but you have to expose yourself to different mediums,

1:17:56 different like there's a reason why the color world has a spectrum like that.

1:18:00 You have to have spectrum 100% in diversity in your life.

1:18:04 Like there would even investments like you don't want

1:18:06 to just go with one like it's always Exactly.

1:18:10 And so it's the same thing of how do you you you hear that from Matthew McConna

1:18:15 and you go you know what I'm going to add a little bit

1:18:17 of spectrum here and so and that turns into something else and then you have

1:18:22 uh because you've written this book here you are doing stuff

1:18:25 with the bear you're like designing a stadium you're doing like

1:18:30 we're doing lots of fun stuff

1:18:31 I'm telling you and your wife's amazing like so you're getting to

1:18:35 but I mean like I I think I mean you too like we the two

1:18:38 of us were in a from yesterday with a bunch of really successful authors,

1:18:42 learning from other people, and

1:18:45 gosh, I I'm pretty intent on never getting to a place where

1:18:50 I don't pinch myself and I find myself in these rooms because

1:18:55 I'm just filled with gratitude for the experiences that I get to have and

1:18:59 for the people I get to meet and it's pretty amazing.

1:19:02 The fact um of just how we even kind of came into play is is crazy.

1:19:06 But that's that has to do a lot with opening yourself to a lot of different

1:19:12 colors in the in the spectrum.

1:19:14 So man, thank you so much for sitting dude.

1:19:17 Thanks for having talking with me.

1:19:19 This thing uh the field guide,

1:19:20 unreasonable hospitality field guide, you got to get it.

1:19:23 When does it come out?

1:19:25 It's April 28th.

1:19:27 It's going to be a killer, man.

1:19:28 I I I as soon as I got it, I was like, dog gone it.

1:19:31 This is so good.

1:19:33 uh for anybody wanting to add strategic planning

1:19:36 to their teams and how to do it differently.

1:19:38 It's just a step-by-step road map to elevating

1:19:41 the magic in what you do with your business.

1:19:43 Can't recommend it enough.

1:19:44 Thanks, man, for sitting with me.

1:19:45 Thanks, brother.

1:19:46 That brother.