Rep. Jason Crow says U.S. is "not good at having off ramps" in Middle East conflicts

0:00 We go now to Colorado Democratic Congressman

0:02 Jason Crowe who's joining us from Sedona,

0:04 Arizona, where he's attending the McCain Institute forum.

0:07 Good morning to you.

0:09 Hi, good morning Margaret.

0:11 So, I want to ask you about some developing news.

0:13 We learned late Friday uh that there was a decision made by Secretary Hegsith

0:19 and the two Republican chairs of the House

0:21 and Senate Armed Services Committees are objecting to it.

0:24 Um, they are very concerned by Hexith's

0:27 order to withdraw a US brigade from Germany.

0:30 They said it was not coordinated with Congress.

0:33 And yesterday, President Trump said on top of the 5,000 that was announced,

0:36 he wants to pull even more troops out of Germany.

0:40 What is the effect of doing so?

0:44 Well, first of all, it's not just a a lack of coordination

0:46 or just Congress's preference that we want this to be on.

0:49 This is law.

0:50 There's actually law in place that both the House and the Senate passed

0:53 on a bipartisan basis that sets certain

0:56 conditions for movement of our troops around Europe.

0:59 And we passed these laws out

1:00 of grave concern for rhetoric by this administration

1:03 in the past that they were going to draw down our presence in Europe,

1:06 which is one of the most important troop uh

1:09 footprints we have in the world that helped secure Europe,

1:11 helps secure our economy,

1:13 helps protect the hundreds of thousands of American

1:15 citizens who live and work on the continent.

1:18 Uh so we we are enforcing the law and the requirements.

1:22 Uh second is it appears as though this decision was made because

1:26 Donald Trump was upset by a comment made by the German chancellor.

1:30 Like he is uh getting emotional and uh angry about

1:33 this and he's making really consequential

1:36 troop decision uh troop movement decisions

1:39 based upon you know being upset by the comments of a foreign

1:42 leader which is no way to run a foreign policy.

1:44 Uh, so we're looking into it and we're going to make sure that any movements,

1:48 if they do occur, are actually in our interests.

1:51 You were talking about the Chancellor of Germany saying

1:53 that a whole nation is being humiliated by the Iranian leadership.

1:56 I mean, that's a pretty strong statement from an ally.

2:01 Um, but in regard to pulling troops out of that country, um,

2:06 we'll we'll still have at least 30,000 troops or so in Germany.

2:11 Um, isn't that still within the legal framework?

2:13 I believe that the floor is set to 76,000 in Europe,

2:17 but the president can go below it if

2:18 he certifies to Congress it's in the national interest.

2:21 Why do you think there is a violation?

2:25 Well, that's exactly the assessment we have to go through.

2:27 You know what we know is that the president is making a decision

2:30 based upon a comment that he didn't like by a foreign leader.

2:33 So, that alone is very concerning to us.

2:36 It should be concerning to every American

2:37 that you have the president of the United States,

2:39 a commander-in-chief who's going to move thousands of troops around just to get

2:44 back at a foreign leader for a comment that he doesn't like.

2:47 But I'm not presumptively against troop movements.

2:49 Like, if we need to move troops

2:51 or brigades around to respond to national security issues,

2:54 we should by all means do that.

2:55 That's the prerogative of the of the commander-in-chief.

2:58 Uh when I was in the military, you know,

3:00 we we would we would move forces around all the time.

3:02 My point is we actually have to make sure that this is

3:05 being done according to the risks that our forces are facing,

3:09 that it's being done on the proper timeline because

3:12 moving troops and units around is very risky and exposes

3:15 them to a variety of risks and and that it's

3:18 in the best interest of the United States.

3:19 And right now sitting here, what we know is that this isn't a decision that's

3:23 driven by the best interests of our troops and Americans.

3:26 It's a decision based upon the emotion of Donald Trump.

3:29 Do you think the US can end the war or whatever we're

3:32 in with Iran right now uh without clearing that straight of Hormuz?

3:36 Do you expect a return to combat?

3:39 Well, first of all, it's Iran that's blockading the straight of Hormuz.

3:43 We're blockading their blockade.

3:45 I think the real question that we should all be asking is does America

3:49 really want to continue to have conflict in the Middle East uh for another,

3:54 you know, 5, 10, 20 years?

3:56 The the problem is is that we have confused as a nation.

3:59 We we have confused as a nation tactics versus strategy.

4:04 Most of the conversation around around Iran is about tactics.

4:07 Should we blockade?

4:08 Uh how do we counter drones?

4:10 Uh you know who who who is moving oil around where.

4:14 What is our strategy?

4:16 Right?

4:16 We spent trillions of dollars in Iraq

4:18 and Afghanistan to replace the Taliban with the Taliban.

4:22 in Iraq to replace Saddam Hussein with ISIS.

4:25 We are not good at having offramps and accomplishing

4:29 large strategic decisions in the Middle East, right?

4:32 And this is just yet another example of that.

4:35 So, let's actually talk strategy and what it is we're trying

4:37 to accomplish here instead of having a constant discussion around blockades.

4:41 So, when Secretary Hegsmith was before your committee this week

4:44 and he was asking for this $1.5 trillion dollar budget request,

4:48 are Democrats going to say no until they get those answers

4:50 or do you have to fund the troops who are in harm's way?

4:54 Well, I'm just going to say no uh regardless of of you know

4:59 what what's going on in one area because we don't need that money, right?

5:02 The the Department of Defense has never passed an audit.

5:06 Never in the history of that department.

5:08 It's the only government agency in the US

5:10 government tell us how how they're spending money.

5:14 We have already we have already funded munition stockpiles amounts and what I

5:18 am not going to do is continue the pattern like we continued Iraq

5:22 and Afghanistan of throwing good money

5:24 after bad and constantly funding conflicts

5:28 that never end and will not end up in a good result for America.

5:33 Right?

5:33 That is exactly what we did in Iraq and Afghanistan.

5:36 And somebody has to say enough is enough.

5:39 Somebody has to step up and say, "We're just not going to do it." In a president

5:42 that hasn't told us what the strategy is,

5:44 hasn't come to Congress for authorization,

5:47 uh, hasn't even articulated to the American

5:49 people what he's trying to accomplish,

5:51 I am not going to write blank checks to have that cycle continue.

5:55 I'm not going to do it.

5:56 I want to ask you about another decision.

5:58 Um, section 702 is that warrantless surveillance program

6:02 that's used to collect communications of foreigners abroad um,

6:05 when they're including when they're interacting with Americans.

6:08 Your Democratic colleague Jim Heims,

6:10 who is in that powerful position on House intelligence,

6:13 called it the most important foreign intelligence tool America has.

6:17 He said he has seen no evidence that the Trump administration is misu using it.

6:23 Yet you have voted no on a long-term extension.

6:27 What evidence do you have of abuse or violations of it?

6:31 Well, here's the problem we have.

6:33 Jim Heimmes is right.

6:34 This is an incredibly important tool that helps prevent terrorist attacks.

6:38 It gives us intelligence on our adversaries.

6:40 It helps protect our troops, which is why I've always supported it.

6:44 But right now, in the last year,

6:45 we have seen a president that routinely ignores legal decisions.

6:50 You know, they are they are ignoring more

6:52 than a third of court rulings against them, routinely violating the law.

6:56 Hell, in February, they actually politicized DOJ

6:59 and they tried to put me in prison.

7:01 They tried to indict me and other members of Congress simply for stating

7:04 what the law is and what the obligation of our service members are.

7:08 The committee chair is begging for it to be

7:09 extended and saying there's no misuse of it.

7:12 What what what I am saying is I am not willing

7:15 to give a very long runway to this administration on a very powerful

7:19 intelligence tool when they have routinely shown to the American people

7:23 and to us that they violate the law and they don't respect the law.

7:26 I will do a short-term extension and then we will oversee that program and we

7:31 will guarantee I will look at it hard

7:33 every single month and if they're abusing it,

7:36 if they're strained from the law, then then we pull it back.

7:38 But giving them a three-year runway gets rid of all of our leverage.

7:43 If we give them a three-year reauthorization,

7:45 what are we going to do if a year from now,

7:47 18 months from now, they start violating the program and abusing it?

7:50 We we have no recourse.

7:52 Well, right now it goes until June 12th with this short-term extension.

7:56 Jason Crowe, thank you, Congressman, for joining us this