ESPN’s Jeff Passan Talks Dodgers, Yankees, Mets, Braves, ABS & More with Rich Eisen | Full Interview

0:00 Hour number three, we return to the world of the boys.

0:03 Um we had Chase Crawford.

0:06 Um last week, the deep.

0:08 Uh hour number three, we've got Mother's Milk on the program.

0:11 Laz Alonzo is on the program.

0:13 And right now joining us to kick off hour number two

0:15 is our favorite with whom to talk about our love of baseball.

0:20 The lead man in that sport from ESPN,

0:22 our friend Jeff Passen returns to the program.

0:25 Good to see you, Jeff.

0:25 How are you, brother?

0:26 Good to see you.

0:27 I'm afraid that MM is going to die and I do not want to see that happen.

0:33 I I love that show.

0:35 Mm.

0:35 Mother's Milk.

0:36 I No, I know.

0:37 I'm I'm very very well aware.

0:39 You are not fingering like Mark Maguire.

0:40 I understand that.

0:41 I get it.

0:42 I understand.

0:43 But yeah, me too.

0:44 I can't get enough of that program, Jeff.

0:46 I love it.

0:47 It It is It is such a gnarly show in like multiple ways.

0:52 Like gnarly like in 1980s.

0:54 like, yo, that's that like that's gnarly.

0:57 But also like it is the grossest show and it's

1:00 hilarious and it's fantastic and it tells good stories.

1:04 I adore that show.

1:05 So, please tell Alonzo thank you for me.

1:07 I will do that and I will do my best to try and get

1:10 uh him to tell me what it's like to how do I put this?

1:14 Um be an actor in a fight scene like um he

1:18 was at the beginning of this season against a certain superpower.

1:22 Um, let's just leave it at that, I guess.

1:25 Well, he was fighting a corkked bat, I think, to use the analogy.

1:31 Wow.

1:31 I'm just just trying to keep it baseball, man.

1:33 All right, that's uh Jeff Passen, the story of the first

1:37 month of the Major League Baseball season is what?

1:41 Uh, who's going to challenge the Dodgers?

1:43 And it's not like a ton of teams stepped up to the plate,

1:47 but I think we can look at the Atlanta Braves now, and say that this is a team,

1:52 especially considering all the pitching injuries that they've had,

1:56 that they've gone out there and done what they've done.

1:57 They've got the best record in MLB right now.

1:59 The offense looks like we expected it to, frankly,

2:03 for the last couple years when they sort of floundered about.

2:06 Um, and the New York Yankees, their pitching is awesome.

2:10 And it's without Garrett Cole and it's without Carlos Veron as well.

2:15 So, uh, the fact that the Yankees have

2:17 that and that they have essentially replaced Juan Sodto with Ben Rice.

2:23 Now, I'm not saying that Ben Rice is going to have a Juan Sodto-like career,

2:27 but he's sure playing like him this season.

2:30 Taking walks, hitting home runs has been a lynch pin in that lineup.

2:34 And whether he's in front of or behind Aaron Judge,

2:38 uh it's that comfort that he brings knowing that Judge

2:42 doesn't have to carry the load entirely by himself.

2:45 I did mention that to my uh youngest son.

2:47 We were watching the Yankee game this weekend, Jeff.

2:49 Ben Rice's numbers popped up.

2:51 I'm like, those look just like Sodto's numbers.

2:53 And I understand it's just one month of the season.

2:56 And I don't I don't know.

2:56 Brian Cashman, the uh the grocery shopper and roster builder,

3:00 if you will, in New York,

3:01 seems to have a different way about him now to essentially tell Anthony Vulpi,

3:07 "You're done with your rehab, but you're staying down in the miners

3:09 because Cabayerro is playing too well." And I'm

3:11 just wondering if there's a different way

3:14 that the Yankees are running their business right now.

3:17 Do you think, Jeff?

3:19 I I think the Yankees understand that when you are the New York Yankees, Rich,

3:23 and you haven't had a World Series championship since 2009,

3:28 you have to act with urgency.

3:30 You have to act with seriousness.

3:32 You have to take advantage of the year

3:34 that Cam Schlitler looks like he's going to give you,

3:37 the year that Max Freed looks like he's going to give you,

3:39 the starting pitching,

3:40 which you know from the injuries that have occurred already,

3:45 can disappear at any time.

3:47 And I I'd be remiss if I didn't mention Will Warren, too, and Ryan Weathers.

3:51 That's the thing about the Yankees.

3:53 They are coming at you with arms, with power stuff, and with command as well.

3:59 And that's the scary part in this era where there are more walks this year,

4:03 Rich, than we've seen in generations.

4:07 Yankees pitchers are throwing strikes.

4:09 And is there stuff that they Yeah,

4:11 they they need Trent Gisham to hit a little bit.

4:14 And you know, third base uh is still an open question for them.

4:18 But when you look at the landscape

4:20 of the American League right now, oh my goodness.

4:23 Uh the only teams that are over 500 at this point,

4:27 two in the Central and Detroit and Cleveland that are one game over.

4:31 Uh the A's at top the American League West two games over and then

4:35 the Tampa Bay Rays at 21 and 12 who have far exceeded expectations.

4:40 And I imagine there's going to be some regression considering

4:43 they only have a positive seven run differential at this point.

4:46 So it looks like the Yankees league to win.

4:49 Now Detroit's going to get better.

4:51 Uh you know I I still believe in Seattle even though

4:55 you know they got embarrassed by Kansas City over the weekend.

4:58 Like there are teams that could be in the mix but uh

5:02 the Yankees are the distinct AL favorites

5:05 right now and they've earned that position.

5:06 Well, the Yankees and the Rays are the only teams in Major

5:10 League Baseball in the American League that are three games over 500.

5:14 And as of right now, every team in the NL Central is three games over 500.

5:19 That seems to be a vastly improved division.

5:22 Uh but you still think it's the Dodgers

5:26 league to take at this point in time, Jeff?

5:29 Yeah, because the D the Dodgers are

5:31 not the whole version of themselves right now.

5:34 missing Mookie Betts, missing Edwin Diaz, missing Blake Snell.

5:38 So, you've got a Hall of Famer,

5:41 a top five closer in baseball, and a two-time SI Young Award winner.

5:44 I mean, that's a lot to have on the shelf,

5:46 but th this is this is how the Dodgers operate.

5:50 They know that they are going to make the playoffs.

5:53 They know that they have enough talent

5:55 and that they have enough depth that come October, they're going to be there.

5:59 So, they almost plan for October at this point.

6:03 Edwin Diaz needs to sit down for a few months and and heal

6:06 up from the the chips that were taken from his elbow.

6:09 Take all the time you need.

6:11 And it's a luxury that that more than

6:14 anything is the luxury that the Dodgers have.

6:18 Their payroll gives them the ability to make mistakes and to to hoard depth.

6:24 And they know that injuries are going to happen.

6:27 So, okay, you know, we we lose Blake Snell out of the rotation.

6:31 let's just throw in Justin Rebleski and he's going to put up a sub two erra.

6:35 Like that's that's the world that the Dodgers live in.

6:38 So yeah, I do think they are the team to beat still,

6:42 but uh with Atlanta and New York particularly in uh

6:46 the Chicago Cubs have been playing inspired baseball as well.

6:50 Those seem like the teams that are likeliest to challenge them.

6:54 Why did the Red Sox can Kora, Jeff?

6:58 And obviously we saw the Phillies follow suit and the Mets

7:01 are still hanging on with their manager right now.

7:04 But let's let's just start with that with the Red Sox.

7:07 Why did that happen, Jeff?

7:09 I I think it was a couple of things.

7:10 I think number one, there were philosophical differences between Alex Core,

7:15 the manager, and Craig Brelo, the chief baseball officer.

7:18 And uh similar philosophical differences existed when Haim

7:22 Bloom was there with the Red Sox as well.

7:25 And when it came to the power struggle, Alex Kora won that one.

7:28 This time around, uh I think that, you know,

7:32 Alex Cora was very protective of his coaching staff and the Red Sox front office

7:36 did not like the way that hitting philosophies

7:39 were being implemented at the big league level.

7:42 uh they had wanted change even in the off season potentially,

7:46 but uh the the bad start that Boston had I

7:50 think was the pretext that was needed to make these changes.

7:53 And you can make an argument, and I think it's a it's a very fair argument,

7:58 Rich, that the way that baseball teams are run these days,

8:01 you need to have a straight line from the manager's office up

8:07 to the front office and from the front office down to the manager's office.

8:11 And the lines of communication need to be

8:13 clear and the philosophies need to be aligned.

8:16 And you know, we saw this a decade ago plus now when AJ Hinch

8:21 got hired by Josh Burns without any

8:24 managerial experience to to manage the Arizona Diamondbacks.

8:27 And they used a phrase that got laughed at at the time, organizational advocacy.

8:32 But the principles of it actually make sense

8:35 that if you have all these plans in place,

8:38 you need management to be aligned on the implementation

8:41 of them and in the goals that they're going after.

8:44 And in Boston that simply wasn't there.

8:48 Okay.

8:48 So, what what's the Mets plan here?

8:50 What do you think?

8:53 Um, oh boy.

8:54 I I mean, it hurts with Francisco Lindor on the shelf.

9:00 It hurts with uh Jorge Palano not uh playing to what his contract

9:06 is and with Bob Bashette not playing to what his contract is.

9:09 And we can go on and on about the overhaul of the Mets

9:13 and what it was intended to do versus what actually has come to fruition.

9:18 And this seems like a team right now, Rich, without an identity.

9:22 And I understand identities develop over time and they tend

9:28 to develop a lot more quickly when you're actually winning baseball games.

9:31 And so I I do think this Mets team is still talented,

9:35 but between the injuries and the bad start and and just the vibes there,

9:41 uh it's it's not a team that seems like

9:44 it's on track to be able to turn things around.

9:47 And uh it's a shame because it's been a long time

9:51 since the New York Mets have won a World Series, 40 years.

9:55 When Steve Cohen came in as owner right after CO,

9:58 he said the plan is to win a World Series within 5 years.

10:01 that the dot happened.

10:02 What direction are the New York Mets going in and what does it look like?

10:06 Because they almost feel as if they're stuck between

10:08 two positions right now in baseball, you tend to commit.

10:12 Either you commit to the rebuild or you commit to going allin

10:15 and trying to facilitate those two together can be a tricky thing.

10:21 There are some teams that integrate players really well.

10:24 The the Dodgers do a good job with their young players.

10:26 You see it with Dalton rushing this year.

10:28 The Brewers do a great job of both building and winning at the same time,

10:34 but that's not something that the Mets uh

10:36 have been very adept at and something that is

10:39 going to be imperative if they want to get

10:41 out of this morass that they're stuck in.

10:43 Well, their nine-game road swing just started

10:45 decently just down the road from here,

10:47 Jeff Passen, with a uh two out of three series win over the Angels.

10:51 They now go to Colorado,

10:52 which swept them uh in their house just a week ago before visiting Arizona.

10:58 And then six big ones at home, three against Detroit,

11:01 and then the motherload that could potentially tip a scale here,

11:04 the the beginning of the the Subway series with the Yankees coming in.

11:09 And if the Yankees play in that three-game

11:11 series anything similar to what they've done right now,

11:15 uh and the Mets haven't turned it around, what are you hearing?

11:19 What do you think?

11:20 Well, David Sterns came out and gave a public

11:23 vote of confidence to Carlos Mendoza, the manager.

11:26 But just because you're getting a vote of confidence

11:28 now doesn't immunize you from losing your job.

11:31 If the Mets continue to lose, Carlos Mendoza will be fired like that.

11:35 That's just the reality of the situation.

11:38 And it's nothing against Carlos Mendoza or the job he's doing.

11:42 It's just the expectation in New York.

11:44 And fans have grown tired of this team already, understandably so.

11:49 But it's not just this year.

11:52 This goes back to last season when in June, Rich, the Mets were 45 and 24.

11:58 They had the best record in all of Major League Baseball at that point.

12:02 And so to see them collapse the way that they have over the last I mean,

12:06 we're going on almost 5 months at this point of bad baseball by this team.

12:11 And I know there, you know, guys who are gone.

12:13 Pete Lonzo's gone, Jeff McNeel's gone.

12:15 There are others who are gone.

12:16 Brandon NMO and some are succeeding elsewhere, some not so much.

12:21 But, uh, this new incarnation of the Mets has not found its stride yet.

12:26 And, uh, I don't think that Steve Cohen ultimately

12:29 is going to be the sort of owner who's

12:31 going to sit around and be patient while investing

12:34 $400 million into a team that can't win baseball games.

12:38 All right, Jeff Pass, before I let you go, let's talk ABS.

12:41 One month in, um, success.

12:44 What do you think?

12:46 I love it.

12:46 I do too.

12:47 And and I I don't think I'm the only one.

12:50 Um it it's it's just

12:54 it does two things.

12:55 Number one, it solves the issue of bad calls from umpires.

13:00 And number two, it does so in a way that actually is kind of entertaining.

13:05 and and to I I mean to to integrate those two together like that and get both

13:11 tangible value and entertainment value on top

13:15 of that it's a neat trick by Major League Baseball.

13:19 And listen, there are a lot of people

13:20 and I understand why they think this, Rich.

13:23 There are a lot of people who think that this is

13:25 just the first version of it and ultimately we're

13:28 going to end up with ABS on all pitches and it's

13:31 going to be a standardized strike zone and that's that.

13:33 No miss calls, no blown calls, nothing.

13:36 Here's the thing.

13:37 When you do that, you end up taking away

13:41 exactly what you're seeing on the screen right now,

13:43 which is that little moment, and it doesn't take very long,

13:47 of watching that ball and the trail behind

13:50 it and hoping that it's going to end up in a spot where you see a little sliver

13:55 of pink on the screen there indicating a strike.

13:58 Hey man, you're bringing up the perfect point, Jeff.

14:00 Like again, you're the entertainment aspect of it.

14:02 They could immediately just show it on the screen of of a static dot, right?

14:07 Instead, it's like, let's turn to see if they're right.

14:10 You know, what's behind door number two?

14:12 Is it a strike or is it a ball?

14:14 There is an entertainment value of it.

14:16 And I'm wondering, are the umpires like that?

14:18 Do they like the entertainment value of it where some

14:20 players are now taking off their gear after tapping the helmet?

14:24 Some of at some point you're going to see

14:25 somebody just make some sort of, you know, sort of like bat flip type move,

14:31 you know, with it with with with their with their helmet

14:34 tap and I'm just waiting for an umpire just go screw

14:37 going to like roll it up and tap.

14:38 Yeah.

14:38 You seriously like like Enrico Palazzo, you know,

14:41 like maybe spin around and tap your head, you know, like that's coming, Jeff.

14:45 It's going to happen.

14:46 You know, someone doing the splits and popping up into a tap.

14:50 I like that.

14:51 Yeah, but uh why not?

14:52 You know what I mean?

14:53 feel I I mean not great, you know,

14:57 essentially like when any of us makes a mistake,

15:00 me, you, anyone who's watching right now, when we make a mistake,

15:04 we want to go and hide and their mistakes

15:07 are on something that is literally called a jumbotron.

15:12 They're there for entire stadiums to go and see.

15:16 So, yeah, it doesn't feel good.

15:17 But I will say this, MLB, I think,

15:19 has done a decent job of giving umpires the ability to get in-game feedback.

15:24 I don't know if you knew this, but umpires have the two-way microphone

15:27 and they can talk to the ABS operator and and be told that, hey,

15:33 uh, you're calling strikes a little bit off the plate today.

15:35 Bring it in a little bit.

15:36 And that real time feedback, I think, has helped.

15:39 And it it's great.

15:41 Like I understand that hitters want a consistent zone,

15:44 but I think more than anything, they just want the correct calls because they

15:48 have their idea of what a strike is to and as close as umpires can come

15:52 to replicating that, I think the better the game is.

15:55 Well, I mean, we've seen it all so far, I think.

15:57 Uh, but you can correct me on it.

15:59 Like, what what what hasn't happened with ABS yet?

16:02 I mean, we saw Rob Refder get called out on strike three, wait a minute,

16:05 tap the helmet, he's not struck out, and then he hits a go, right?

16:10 We've seen that.

16:11 And then yesterday, we saw Jonah with a runner on first,

16:15 have a ball get away from him that was called a ball,

16:18 even though it was a strike, but he had to retrieve the baseball first

16:22 to make sure the runner doesn't advance from first.

16:25 And then the umpire says, "No,

16:27 you may not challenge that yet cuz it's too far away

16:29 from the actual pitch landing at home plate." Even and and you know,

16:34 he had a right to say, "What do what am I supposed to do?

16:37 Tap the helmet?

16:38 Let the guy go to second?" You know, like,

16:40 so we've seen we've seen some, you know,

16:43 bonehead calls and we've seen some writed calls.

16:46 Um, what what have we missed?

16:49 What hasn't happened yet with ABS, do you think, that you're expecting to see?

16:53 You know there there's a question of uh when a runner is

16:58 going for example like does he get put back at first base

17:03 if let's say uh there are three balls and he's running

17:08 and the you know a pitch is called a ball and it gets challenged.

17:14 Well he was running to steal.

17:16 So if he had second base swipe should he be on there?

17:19 And generally the way that they're handling it is

17:22 that they're going to send the runner back to first base.

17:24 Uh I imagine there are plenty of other scenarios.

17:27 It's baseball, Rich.

17:28 Like you know there there there is always something uh

17:32 if you watch a game that you probably haven't seen before.

17:35 And with a system that's new like this that's bound to come up.

17:38 Uh I I can only hope it doesn't come up in the postseason and uh you

17:44 know change the course of the game because

17:45 that that's the whole point of this system.

17:47 It's the idea that the game is played by players,

17:51 so let's let the player's action and not

17:53 the adjudicator's action really influence what the outcome is.

17:57 Yeah.

17:57 What about a check swing um and it's

18:00 called a ball and now you're tapping your helmet,

18:02 it's a strike, you know, something like that.

18:04 We haven't I I do like it though.

18:08 I I do like it.

18:09 And and certainly too the reverse happens also where a you know

18:14 a batter taps the helmet and the ball's right in the strike zone.

18:17 So an umpire could basically say like what's your malfunction?

18:21 Right.

18:22 I think you know we also saw Laz Diaz emote ball too and somebody

18:26 thought it was strike two and they they they challenged an actual strike.

18:30 You know what I mean?

18:31 Like it's or or a ball that was way out of the strike zone.

18:34 I do dig it Jeff.

18:35 I I I I do like it a lot.

18:38 Um, thanks for the call.

18:39 Thanks for the Zoom as always, buddy.

18:41 Appreciate it.

18:42 Rich, being on here is a pleasure and getting to wear the

18:46 Emberkill baseball gear on national television.

18:49 What are you not What is this?

18:50 What What am I seeing?

18:51 What is it?

18:52 This is my uh this is my son's uh baseball team.

18:54 Um, and uh he Yeah.

18:57 set the uh program record for uh career RBI's over the weekend.

19:01 So, good work, Jack.

19:02 Passing on a grand slam, no less.

19:05 Okay.

19:05 Okay.

19:06 I I like it.

19:07 uh lefty, righty.

19:08 What What is Jack?

19:09 What what's his uh right right-handed uh hitting center fielder and and even uh

19:15 like made a diving catch and not just like a dove

19:20 to look good like actually laid out and as he's

19:24 in the air I'm thinking to myself that's not my son.

19:28 There is no way.

19:30 None whatsoever.

19:31 Come on.

19:32 Pass can come up with web gems just like anybody else, man.

19:36 Thanks for the time, Jeff.

19:37 You're the best.

19:38 Pleasure is always mine, Rich.

19:40 Gentlemen, Jeff Pass here on the Rich Eisen Show, rocking Jack Pass's gear.

19:44 That's the way to work it.

19:45 Hey, you made it all the way to the end.

19:47 Thanks for that.

19:47 Check us out every single day streaming live on Disney

19:50 Plus and the ESPN app 12 to 3 Eastern.