Fleetwood Mac changed my world - Susan Calman's emotional look at her life’s defining songs

0:00 Well, if your wife wants more Saturday, Susan.

0:02 I TRY REALLY HARD.

0:05 [laughter] [screaming]

0:06 YES!

0:07 THIS IS WHAT TRACKS OF MY YEARS IS all about.

0:09 Thank you.

0:09 I've only cried twice, so it's better [laughter] than I thought.

0:12 Right, my guest this week on Tracks of My Years is a Scottish comedian,

0:17 an intrepid traveler, and also a Strictly superstar.

0:21 Please welcome Susan Calman.

0:22 Susan, welcome.

0:23 Hello, Vernon.

0:24 How are you?

0:24 I'm fine.

0:25 I I enjoy spending time in your company, Vernon.

0:28 Thank you.

0:28 I always feel there's a slight edge of mischief

0:32 [laughter] that I'm not entirely sure.

0:33 I like it, though.

0:34 I like it.

0:34 There's that you know,

0:37 we're taking this very seriously, but something may happen.

0:40 Good.

0:41 So, I enjoy it.

0:42 Good.

0:42 That's nice.

0:42 I enjoy it.

0:43 That's refreshing.

0:43 Yeah.

0:44 Tracks of My Years with Vernon Kay.

0:53 [music] [music] Um the first track we've just heard was Jeff Wayne

1:04 and The Eve of the War from War of the Worlds.

1:08 Why have you picked this?

1:09 So, this is probably, I would say, my first musical memory.

1:13 When I was uh really quite young, we used to go on holiday to France.

1:20 So, uh mom, dad, I was the youngest three children in a camper van.

1:25 Now, when you say camper van, nowadays, people think of luxurious kind of thing.

1:32 This was, I think, a converted Transit van.

1:36 That's what I [laughter] was thinking.

1:37 Right?

1:38 And we would drive from Glasgow to the north of France.

1:44 Wow.

1:45 And to accompany us for entertainment.

1:49 Now, my mother denies this story.

1:50 She denies all my childhood stories.

1:54 [laughter]

1:54 Do you know my mother told me when

1:55 I was younger it was illegal to feed squirrels.

1:58 And when I studied law at Glasgow University, say, I remember saying to people,

2:01 "You know it's illegal to feed squirrels?" And they're like,

2:03 "No, it's not." I went, "My mom told me." [laughter]

2:06 And she just didn't want us going near squirrels.

2:07 It's not illegal to feed squirrels.

2:10 Right?

2:10 I spent ages looking for the relevant

2:12 squirrel statute when I became a law student.

2:16 Anyway, so, we had one tape, which I suspect, back in the days,

2:22 you used to get free tapes in like the Sunday supplements.

2:27 And it was War of the Worlds.

2:29 So, for 7 years, the only accompaniment to the holidays in France,

2:36 the drive, was War of the Worlds.

2:38 Wow.

2:41 it.

2:40 And I Every time I hear that, the start of that, ba ba ba ba,

2:46 just reminds me of long car drives.

2:49 And I Oh, through the years, I've made up dance routines to it.

2:53 I I can still tell you exactly where I was and what I was doing.

2:58 And it's an odd start to your musical journey, because it's quite operatic.

3:03 It's quite big.

3:03 It's quite bold.

3:05 Um and maybe that's where my love of drama comes from musically.

3:09 What is it?

3:10 5 6 hours?

3:12 Oh, at least.

3:12 a little bit more, right?

3:14 I There's a pic There's a picture of that van,

3:16 and it doesn't look to me like it goes above 40.

3:19 Basically, most of the holiday was driving.

3:21 Yeah.

3:22 All of that is tied up in in that track.

3:25 That track is the track of the first time of being

3:28 somewhere warm and different and lovely and being on holiday.

3:33 And my dad worked so hard.

3:35 We We only really saw him at the holidays.

3:37 What did he do?

3:38 He was a doctor.

3:39 He was a transplant surgeon and oncologist.

3:41 And I always remember by the end of the holiday, one really brown arm.

3:47 Trucker's elbow.

3:48 Yeah, I mean, one really brown arm from driving around uh France.

3:53 So, I love listening to that track, and I still listen to it quite a lot,

3:57 cuz it just reminds me of that that first holidays.

4:00 Mhm.

4:01 Um the question is still there, though, Vernon.

4:04 They could have bought another tape.

4:05 Yeah.

4:06 They didn't, though.

4:06 They could have, but like you say,

4:08 it's that It's the fact that it's embedded in you,

4:11 and it brings back the traveling memories.

4:29 Liza Minnelli and Cabaret, come on.

4:32 So, there are two instances in my life then?

4:37 Because I just love I love Liza Minnelli.

4:39 Right.

4:39 There are two instances in my life where I have slightly lost my mind.

4:43 The second one, laterally, was when I was a corporate lawyer,

4:47 and I walked into my boss's office and said, "I'm resigning to be a a star."

4:52 [laughter] Did you say that?

4:52 Basically, Did you really say that?

4:54 I'm basically I'm GOING TO BE I'M going to the Edinburgh Fringe Festival.

4:56 I'm going to become a star.

4:57 And then, 15 years later, I got on Strictly, and I finally made some money.

5:01 So, unfortunately, I mean, I did the whole dramatic thing,

5:04 and then it didn't work out very well.

5:05 Anyway, I am an absolute rule follower.

5:11 However, when I was at school, I was terrible at maths.

5:17 Not only terrible at maths, I have no interest in maths.

5:20 Hated it, in fact.

5:21 And I was meant to sit my higher maths exam.

5:24 So, I knew it wasn't going to go well.

5:27 And I don't know what happened.

5:31 I don't know what happened, cuz I'm not this person.

5:34 I thought, "I don't want to do this." And so, I walked out of school,

5:41 and I walked up the Grosvenor Cinema in the West End of Glasgow.

5:44 So, I just walked in in school uniform.

5:46 Just I mean, in some form of hypnotic state,

5:50 and sat down, and it was Cabaret that was showing.

5:54 And it changed my life.

5:56 Liza Minnelli and Cabaret changed my Is it Is it 16?

6:02 15 16.

6:03 15 or 16.

6:04 Wow.

6:04 Changed my absolute life.

6:06 I'd never seen a film like it.

6:07 I'd never heard music like it, cuz my family um music isn't something I

6:12 remember from my childhood being in the house.

6:16 And so, finding Cabaret and Liza Minnelli absolutely changed everything for me.

6:24 Her performance, her style, her confidence, everything about it.

6:29 I was young.

6:30 I didn't know what I was going to do with my life.

6:32 I was gay.

6:34 I I I wasn't really out.

6:36 Cabaret is the right film to see [laughter]

6:40 when you're a little bit closeted and a little bit confused about things.

6:44 When you walked out of that cinema, how did you feel?

6:48 How did you react to the rest of the world then?

6:51 It felt [snorts] It's odd.

6:52 It's odd, because the world has gone

6:53 around whilst you've had a life-changing moment.

6:57 The thing about the story is that I then had to lie.

7:03 So, when I got my exam results in an envelope,

7:06 cuz there was no internet at that point,

7:08 I said to my parents I'd got my higher maths.

7:12 And then, I had to sit a secret higher in sixth year of modern

7:17 studies to get the five highers I needed to get into law school.

7:20 And my mother only found out when I told this story on QI.

7:26 She didn't know for 20 years Wow.

7:28 that I hadn't I'd done that.

7:30 Tell me the phone call.

7:32 Well, the thing is, after everything I've done, Vernon, this really was not the

7:36 [laughter]

7:36 picture.

7:36 I mean, um I always remember when I told my mom Oh, she's a lovely woman.

7:41 I said, "Remember, you're not meant to tell anyone you're doing Strictly." Yeah.

7:44 Yeah.

7:45 I remember we were all at a family lunch,

7:47 and I thought, "I have to tell them, cuz they'll be angry.

7:49 I have to tell them I'm doing Strictly,

7:51 otherwise they'll be angry." And I remember I said,

7:54 "Hey, guys, I've got something to tell you.

7:55 I'm doing Strictly.

7:55 I'm dancing." My mom just went, "Oh, no." [laughter] [laughter and gasps] So,

8:04 Yeah.

8:05 Cheers.

8:05 Cheers for the confidence.

8:06 This is what I'm So, yeah.

8:08 So, um [snorts] Cabaret is a song of freedom and rebellion.

8:14 I love that.

8:15 And did it allow you to be and have that once you'd watched it?

8:19 Yeah.

8:19 Yeah, you felt more confident in yourself.

8:21 Oh, but you can't not.

8:23 When you see Liza Minnelli, you can't not feel What's so remarkable about

8:29 her performance is she really wasn't very experienced,

8:32 and the vulnerability and the emotion and the confidence,

8:35 all of that kind of stuff just shines through in everything that she did.

8:39 Mhm.

8:39 A wonderful, wonderful track.

8:48 [music] [singing]

9:04 We've just heard it's Strawberry Switchblade and Since Yesterday.

9:09 Stone cold classic.

9:10 No?

9:11 Yeah.

9:11 Yeah.

9:11 Yeah.

9:12 I used to get um Smash Hits,

9:15 and I would cut out the lyrics from Smash Hits and put them in a photo album.

9:21 [laughter] And sing um This will sound archaic for anyone.

9:25 Um Barbara Dickson and Elaine Paige, I Know Him So Well.

9:29 My friend would be one, and I'd be the other.

9:30 I was always Barbara Dickson.

9:31 I'm fine with that.

9:33 Um Now, my brother was really into music,

9:37 and I could hear it coming from his room.

9:39 So, Blondie and Adam and the Ants and things like that.

9:41 But Strawberry Switchblade felt like the first song I found myself.

9:47 Mhm.

9:47 And I think I probably seen them on the front cover of Smash Hits.

9:50 And cuz their image was incredibly distinctive.

9:53 Polka dots.

9:55 They were amazing looking.

9:58 And then I think I saved up to buy the 12-in from Woolworths of this track.

10:04 And then I found out they were from Glasgow.

10:08 And you know that way when you're younger you

10:09 don't think anyone famous could come from where you're from.

10:14 I couldn't believe it.

10:15 Mhm.

10:16 Even Glasgow?

10:17 Well, but remember at that point all you have

10:19 at that point is the information you have access to.

10:21 So, I've we didn't play music.

10:23 We had Smash Hits and we listened to the top 10 on Radio 1.

10:27 You listened to the top 40 on Radio 1 and you did the you know,

10:30 taping off thing, but if it wasn't on that, you know,

10:32 I didn't find out about it.

10:35 And also if you think about it,

10:36 when you read the magazine or listen to uh the top 40, no one's speaking.

10:39 You don't hear them speak.

10:41 So, I didn't know they were from Glasgow until I think I probably

10:43 saw an advert on maybe a Saturday Superstore or a a something like that.

10:48 And Strawberry Switchblade.

10:52 Cuz they they weren't one-hit wonders, but they didn't have a lot of hits.

10:55 When you hear the opening bars of that, ah.

10:59 It was so different.

11:00 It was so fresh.

11:01 It was so interesting.

11:02 And for it to be two young women from Glasgow, from Scotland, was incredible.

11:07 And it's that way you suddenly think maybe I could be a pop star.

11:09 They did it.

11:10 Nice.

11:11 You know.

11:11 Yeah.

11:12 So, it was really it felt so fresh and so interesting.

11:16 You went to study law.

11:17 Was that always going to be your career path?

11:20 Were you always going to be an academic?

11:21 Were you always going to be a person

11:23 who was expressing themselves with what they've learned?

11:27 There was not really any other options.

11:28 Again, I don't have a problem with this before anyone thinks I'm having a moan.

11:32 Yeah.

11:32 Um I probably would have preferred to go

11:34 to the Royal Scottish Academy of Music and Drama.

11:36 Mhm.

11:37 But that was not an appropriate thing to do.

11:39 Who was it who pushed you into law?

11:41 No one pushed it.

11:42 It's just there was no other option.

11:43 Right.

11:44 Um I I I could have done medicine like my dad, but I'm rubbish at science.

11:49 Right.

11:48 So, law's the other option.

11:50 That's it.

11:51 Right.

11:51 If if you go to school, you get good exams, you do law or medicine or that.

11:55 That's it.

11:55 That was what That's how it used to be.

11:57 Mhm.

11:58 So, I'll I'll do law then.

12:00 Do you know what I mean?

12:01 I mean it really was it was a case of you have to do something to get you a job.

12:05 That's the That's the thing.

12:06 You have to get a job.

12:07 You have to do a You have to have a career.

12:08 You have to get a job.

12:11 Yeah.

12:10 So, I did law.

12:11 At university, were you openly gay then?

12:14 Oh, yes.

12:14 There's no problem.

12:15 Yeah.

12:15 There was no There was no problem at the at the actual university.

12:17 And I came out to my parents I think when I was probably 20 or 21.

12:20 I think it was.

12:21 Yeah.

12:21 To be fair, I think I think it's okay to say it wasn't a shock.

12:27 [laughter] Well, it never is for parents, is it?

12:29 But no, I've always been absolutely absolutely uh fine with it again.

12:33 But I'm I grew up in a generation where access to information was quite limited.

12:36 This is the thing.

12:37 There was Diva magazine perhaps that you would read,

12:39 but there wasn't anything on television.

12:41 There wasn't anything You You You You had to make mistakes and and and Susan,

12:46 remember the brouhaha Mhm.

12:48 with Brookside?

12:49 Of course.

12:50 Do I remember, Vernon?

12:51 Or Or could you rephrase that question to which is

12:54 the most formative of moments in your late 20s and late teens?

12:59 It was the That was the biggest thing.

13:02 Since the television was invented, it felt like.

13:06 Yes.

13:05 The first Two ladies are going to kiss on Brookside.

13:09 But believe you me, it was just as important for us.

13:12 Yeah.

13:12 No, I get it, but looking back, [snorts] you I'm looking back No, I know.

13:15 Looking back now these days I watch television and I think,

13:17 my goodness, it's all free and easy.

13:18 But I remember watching that kiss.

13:20 Student flat, Park Circus, Glasgow.

13:22 Small portable television on top of the fridge freezer.

13:26 Classic excuse for

13:27 I think someone had gone out and bought a 2-pound bottle of Hawk.

13:30 You know, one of the 3-liter [laughter] bottles of Hawk.

13:32 And we used to have to put Iron Brew in it

13:34 to make it palatable cuz it was like it was disgusting.

13:37 Sitting going, my goodness, what's about to happen?

13:41 It's great looking from where we are now Mhm.

13:45 to back then where it was quite It was terrible.

13:48 Quite it was it was it was It was terrible.

13:51 I grew up under Section 28 Clause 28.

13:54 It was It was It wasn't It It wasn't It wasn't

13:56 on recently and the stuff that poor Stephen went through.

13:59 Oh, it's I mean, it's disgusting.

14:00 Absolutely disgusting.

14:02 And the thing is what you what you mustn't you know,

14:05 ever think is that everything is absolutely okay.

14:07 And there you know, are young uh LGBTQ teens

14:12 or people listening to this who are desperately unhappy.

14:15 Um the thing is at some point I mean,

14:18 obviously it does get better and it does get better.

14:20 It does get better.

14:21 You You just have to I say this kids all the time.

14:24 Um I wasn't particularly happy at school.

14:28 You get through it and then you find your own weird people.

14:32 Finding your own weird people is the most important thing.

14:35 Yeah.

14:35 Do you know what I mean?

14:36 Yeah, I do.

14:37 Um and and that is the key to it.

14:41 But to to continue to try and just

14:43 keep the confidence in yourself to keep going,

14:46 which is tough, but you get there in the end.

14:48 You get there in the end.

14:49 Yeah.

14:49 Good.

14:50 Good advice.

14:53 [music] [music] [music]

15:11 Tracey Ullman, They Don't Know is your next choice.

15:15 Well, I really enjoyed when I was asked to come up [music] with these tracks.

15:18 And you really think you really think not about your favorite tracks,

15:22 but about the tracks that have been most important to you.

15:26 [clears throat] I have talked a lot about the influence of French and Saunders,

15:30 Victoria Wood, Jo Brand.

15:33 And I realized I'd never really talked about Tracey Ullman.

15:37 And she was just as important to me.

15:40 Um and she was in sketch shows Three of a Kind and things like that.

15:45 And then she brought out an album.

15:46 I couldn't believe it, Vernon.

15:49 I couldn't believe it.

15:50 I mean, it sounds really odd, but Tracey Ullman can sing.

15:54 And then she went, Vernon, to America.

15:58 She went to America.

15:59 Tracey Ullman show was huge.

16:01 And she became the star.

16:03 And again, massive.

16:05 this little 15-year-old girl thinking Do you think Do

16:11 you think one day I could maybe do that?

16:13 Do you think one day I could do that?

16:14 She's done that.

16:16 And Tracey Ullman has really weirdly,

16:19 and I often forget about it, been such an influence.

16:21 She was a character comedian.

16:22 She was an impressionist.

16:24 And then latterly, a few years ago, she did a show again here.

16:29 And I was asked to be in it.

16:32 A tiny part.

16:33 Blink and you'll miss me.

16:35 Oh, who is this?

16:37 My name is Romana.

16:38 I am from Hungary.

16:40 I was barista, but in 2014, my boyfriend strangled me outside that pub.

16:46 After he said I'd been sleeping with his mate,

16:48 although I hadn't, as the inquest proved.

16:52 I TURN TO THE SPIRIT WORLD, VERNON.

16:55 May you find peace there.

16:57 I was sitting in the makeup trailer and Tracey Ullman came in.

17:01 And she sat next to me.

17:03 And she was lovely and we had a conversation.

17:05 And I just remember going, AH.

17:09 15-year-old Susan, one day you're going to be

17:11 in a makeup trailer with Tracey Ullman.

17:13 And she says your name.

17:15 That's great, isn't it?

17:16 And it was just the most glorious thing.

17:19 I feel quite weepy talking about it.

17:21 Um of a quite unhappy teenage Susan finally meeting her idol.

17:26 Aw, that's amazing.

17:28 Yeah.

17:28 You are getting quite emotional.

17:30 No, listen.

17:30 I warn you, as we go through these tracks through the years,

17:32 this is going to happen a lot.

17:33 I get very emotional.

17:36 [music] [music and singing] [music] [music]

17:59 So, the irony is hate the book, love the track.

18:03 Had to study Wuthering Heights at school.

18:05 Honestly, Heathcliff's brooding, blah blah blah,

18:11 fall I just I couldn't be bothered with it.

18:13 I just I'm so sorry for for the lovers of Wuthering Heights out there,

18:16 but for me it didn't do anything.

18:18 Um but the track.

18:21 So, again, you have to think about it in context.

18:27 Uh teenager, the television's there.

18:31 Mom and dad are out of the room doing something.

18:33 So, you get control of the television.

18:35 There was one television.

18:36 That's it.

18:37 And you had to watch whatever the person So,

18:40 it would go uh Mom was always in charge.

18:42 Mom, dad if you're lucky, Andy, my brother, then my sister, then me.

18:45 So, I'm bottom of the pile.

18:48 I've got the telly.

18:50 Probably watching Top of the Pops.

18:52 What is happening on my screen?

18:55 There [snorts] is a woman in a red dress prowling across the moors.

19:01 You listen to the song and it is the most extraor- wailing.

19:05 Doesn't make any sense.

19:08 And it's captivating.

19:11 Uh routinely myself and my wife do the dance to this.

19:16 There is no greater dance than Let me in your window.

19:21 And you just Heathcliff, it's me, I'm Cathy, I'll come home.

19:26 And it is plaintive and odd and strange

19:29 and she is eccentric and wonderful and brilliant.

19:33 And when you are I am a very eccentric person.

19:37 Hugely eccentric person.

19:40 And I love finding another person like that.

19:43 And it I don't know her, but it

19:45 seems to me she's possibly a little bit eccentric.

19:48 Just a little bit.

19:49 Little bit.

19:49 Uh life is all about uh absorbing things and I think Kate

19:54 Bush from an early age I slightly absorbed more than her music.

20:00 Mhm.

20:01 She would disappear for years.

20:02 Yeah.

20:04 That's fine, isn't it?

20:05 Yeah.

20:05 Yeah.

20:06 You know, and so it was it was it was her character as well,

20:10 which I think had a big effect on me.

20:11 Yeah, amazing person, amazing artist.

20:15 Yeah.

20:16 [music] [music] [music]

20:38 The next track you've chosen is Erasure, A Little Respect.

20:41 I was trying to find a a track that spanned

20:45 most of my life rather than the first of my life.

20:50 Mhm.

20:49 And Erasure has been there.

20:52 They've been there the entire time.

20:53 Unquestionably hearing really gay music, you know, was important.

21:03 Right.

21:02 Um because they were really unabashedly uh queer, if I can use that word.

21:09 And I loved it.

21:12 And there's a carefree aspect to it,

21:14 but they were also saying something really

21:15 really important in a lot of their songs.

21:19 But A Little Respect,

21:21 what I love about it from being um really quite kind of uh LGBTQ

21:27 friendly and it was something we listened to when we were in gay clubs.

21:30 If you play that at a wedding now,

21:33 the entire dance floor is going to be dancing.

21:36 Yeah.

21:36 I remember standing out in somewhere in Yorkshire

21:39 with uh one of my best pal Jamie.

21:41 He's the sound man on my shows,

21:42 but he's one of my best pal, 6 ft 6, rides a motorbike.

21:46 Jamie.

21:47 Jamie.

21:47 Yeah.

21:48 And that came [clears throat] on and we both went I try to discover

21:51 Oh, it's a brilliant tune.

21:52 It's a beautiful It's a beautiful track

21:55 that runs through a lot of people's lives.

21:57 And I like to think of I remember going out the first

21:59 time I went out um uh to a club in Glasgow.

22:02 I was potentially Vernon and I'm I feel I can say this now,

22:06 I was potentially not of a legal drinking age.

22:08 Right.

22:08 I I potentially stated on a fake ID card that I'd got.

22:13 Um probably Bennets or [laughter]

22:16 one of those clubs, one of those absolutely banging gay clubs in Glasgow.

22:20 I love the [snorts] fact that you remember everything.

22:22 Oh.

22:23 Everything.

22:24 If you were a gay woman,

22:25 you would go to the uh Glasgow Women's Library discos What?

22:29 at the Clyde Hall uh halls of residence once a month.

22:31 The rumor was there was a there was

22:33 a uh a lesbian bar somewhere down at the Clyde

22:35 that you had to know a special knock

22:36 for, but I nobody ever told me the knock for it.

22:39 There weren't a lot of them.

22:42 Um but I remember the excitement then the first night I remember it so clearly,

22:46 the first night I was at Scottish Youth

22:47 Theatre cuz I went to the Scottish Youth Theatre.

22:51 And we all went, "Should we go out?

22:52 Should we go out?" And I was like, "Okay,

22:54 [laughter] no problem at all." "Should we go to a gay club?" And we went,

22:57 "Yeah, yeah, sure, no problem at all." You know that way when you're like,

22:58 "Yeah, yeah, I'm absolutely cool with this situation.

23:00 There's no problem at all.

23:01 I feel great." And we got into Bennets um and just going,

23:05 "Oh my god, this is what it's like.

23:07 This is what it's like." Oh, is this like the first one of the first times?

23:09 All right.

23:10 Wow.

23:11 First time.

23:11 And I'm sure I was

23:12 You must have felt good though because you No, you're terrified.

23:14 You're terrified.

23:15 Absolutely terrified.

23:16 Absolutely terrified.

23:18 The thing is for me,

23:19 I think it was just being confronted by the the the situation.

23:27 Your personal situation.

23:28 Y- Yeah, and and and would I ever find a girlfriend and and how

23:32 do you find a girlfriend and what am I going to do about the situation?

23:36 And there's just, you know, I don't know what's happening here and it was just

23:40 In Bennets?

23:40 In Bennets.

23:42 Music pumping, lights going, smoke machine on and suddenly you're like,

23:46 "Okay, this is so cuz because again,

23:49 back then the only place you could really meet someone was at a club or a bar.

23:53 Now it's different.

23:53 Now it's very different.

23:55 But at that point if you don't go out, you didn't meet anybody.

23:58 Yeah.

23:58 Um and uh I just remember that song playing and just feeling really happy.

24:07 You know?

24:07 Yeah.

24:07 It's a It's a It's a complicated song,

24:10 but it's one that makes me very very happy.

24:12 I can't get no sleep.

24:17 [music] [music]

24:30 I can't get no sleep.

24:32 We've just heard a massive tune and I know that the Radio 2 audience

24:36 will be going absolutely bonkers at the fact

24:37 that you picked Faithless and Insomnia.

24:40 Why?

24:40 Well, I needed to choose a dance track because again,

24:45 uh eclectic taste in music, like lots of different things.

24:47 One of the things I really love is dance music.

24:50 I adore it.

24:50 Now, I don't go out dancing.

24:54 [snorts] So I don't go to clubs, but I like listening to dance music.

24:57 Right.

24:57 When I was younger, occasionally I would go out

24:59 to the Sub Club in Glasgow, Talk to Me.

25:02 Uh there was a phase of my life when I was a clubber.

25:05 Right.

25:05 It didn't last long.

25:07 I can't stay up that late.

25:10 [laughter]

25:09 And I don't like having to wait for a taxi to get home.

25:13 But what I will do regularly is stick my headphones on in the kitchen

25:18 in the morning and listen to like really hardcore banging dance music.

25:22 I love it.

25:23 I I I the Do you use it as a motivator?

25:25 Yeah.

25:26 The emotion.

25:27 Mhm.

25:29 So before when I was filming um like cruising or something like

25:33 that and I had to go and do something that made me really nervous,

25:36 I would listen to dance music to get me to get the adrenaline going,

25:40 to get my blood pumping.

25:41 I love lots of dance music,

25:43 but I still think that moment where it it you cannot beat that, I don't think.

25:48 Yeah, it's perfect.

25:50 It really is perfect.

25:54 [music] [singing] [singing and music] [music] [singing] [music and singing]

26:16 Okay, I'm going to try not cry in this one.

26:18 All right.

26:19 Oh, I won't look you in the eye.

26:20 I'll just listen.

26:21 at me.

26:22 Fleetwood Mac are the only band I've seen more than once.

26:26 Seen them about four times.

26:29 Um I paid an extraordinary amount of money the last

26:34 time for a meet and greet with Mick Fleetwood.

26:36 We did look as ridiculous as you would imagine.

26:39 I was going to say that's a photograph.

26:40 Yeah.

26:41 It's a good photograph.

26:42 And the reason I wanted to do it was cuz I wanted to be Christine

26:46 McVie was there and Stevie Nicks was there

26:47 and they were the whole band were there.

26:49 And so I stood underneath Stevie Nicks as she was twirling.

26:53 And it was just the most extraordinary thing.

26:55 Um Fleetwood Mac are the one band whose albums I have bought through my life.

27:02 Um and I just find them extraordinary.

27:05 And all of their songs are brilliant.

27:07 Landslide makes me cry.

27:10 [laughter] It's the line um even children get older.

27:15 It um still I'm fine, Vernon.

27:18 I'm fine.

27:19 Um it's the passing of time.

27:23 It's it's the regrets I have of not enjoying my life.

27:31 Mhm.

27:32 Cuz there are times where I have not enjoyed my life.

27:36 And I should have.

27:38 Why didn't I?

27:41 [snorts]

27:41 Why didn't I enjoy that moment?

27:42 You know, traveling around the world, being in beautiful places and not in not

27:46 loving what I was doing because of something stupid.

27:49 You don't have to say it.

27:51 You really don't have to say it,

27:52 but do you know what that something stupid is now?

27:54 Yeah, I do.

27:55 And I've always known that the problem with my mental

27:57 health issues is I'm completely aware of them.

28:00 Right.

28:01 N- I don't feel like I became who I

28:03 am and comfortable with myself until I I passed 40.

28:08 That's a shock.

28:10 Was It was terrible before I was 40.

28:12 Wasn't it?

28:12 Yeah, yeah, I didn't know who I was and I was trying to be

28:14 someone else and I was trying And then I got to 40 and I thought,

28:16 "Well, okay, I think I'm getting to where I should be." And then when I hit 50,

28:22 last year, 2 years ago, oh no, I know who I am.

28:26 Yeah.

28:27 Only now I think am I truly comfortable with who I am at the age of 51.

28:31 Wow, that's that's knocked me off my feet.

28:35 I'm going to ask why.

28:36 Why?

28:36 Why?

28:37 What was the switch where you got, "Oh,

28:38 I'm all right now." I think there is a point where you stop trying,

28:47 genuinely trying cuz I'd always pretended I wasn't trying to impress people

28:53 [sighs] and get the validation of other people.

28:54 And you know, even in comedy, you start out in comedy and your agent tells

28:58 you you have to be on Mock the Week, you have to be on Have I Got News for You,

29:02 you've got to be on Live at the Apollo, you've got to do these things.

29:04 And I was never suited for them.

29:06 I don't tell jokes, I tell stories.

29:09 2011, right?

29:10 Disastrous year at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival.

29:13 My agent at the time um had said,

29:15 "You need to do 10-minute sections for Live

29:17 at the Apollo." That was the point of it.

29:18 Go on Live at the Apollo, do little jokes.

29:20 I can't do jokes.

29:21 Jokes don't work for me.

29:22 I tell a series of meandering stories that may or may not make you laugh.

29:26 That's it.

29:28 [snorts] It was awful.

29:28 It was terrible.

29:29 But it was really busy because it was on 8:00 at night in the Underbelly.

29:32 So loads of people came to it.

29:33 I remember I was queuing for the toilet after the show and a woman

29:36 who'd been in seen my show tapped me on the shoulder and said,

29:40 "Just to let you know, you've ruined our weekend."

29:43 [sighs]

29:43 It was a terrible show.

29:45 But I learned a lot from that and I took 2

29:46 years out and then I came back with an actual good show,

29:48 which is when I started realizing what comedy was for me,

29:52 which was um writing stories, telling stories, and things like that.

29:55 So, um I was always trying to uh impress people,

30:00 and I was never going to impress them cuz I'm not

30:02 the person they want to do the thing that they want.

30:06 And I think when you get to 50, you go, "All right." Yeah.

30:12 Do you know what I mean?

30:13 And I feel since I've turned 50 especially, this is what I do.

30:20 There you go.

30:21 Love it, Olli.

30:22 Yeah.

30:22 Love it or leave it.

30:23 And also becoming I think because uh I made the decision December 2023,

30:30 I've lost 4 stone, I've started lifting weights,

30:32 I've started playing golf, getting stronger.

30:35 I think physically I'm stronger than I've ever been

30:38 before and feeling better than I've ever felt before.

30:41 Um and it is a case of [snorts] I feel physically like I could take anyone on.

30:47 Do you know what I mean?

30:48 You know I feel strong.

30:49 And so, I think since turning 50, I've kind of gone Yeah, that's that then.

30:54 Wow, that's really surprised me though, Susan.

30:57 I must admit, yeah.

30:57 Yeah.

30:58 This song is about for me, a reminder to to live now.

31:06 Yeah.

31:07 Enjoy now.

31:08 Yeah.

31:08 Cuz I was thinking about it this morning.

31:10 I've been to so many places,

31:12 and I was thinking about something stupid wanting the um validation of somebody

31:20 who I was working with or I was instead of going, "I am here.

31:23 It's me."

31:25 Mhm.

31:25 And Landslide [snorts] is that song that makes you go, "Come on.

31:34 You're getting older.

31:36 You'll never I will never be the age I am now." Yeah.

31:41 I'm always going to be slightly old.

31:43 So, enjoy it now.

31:45 [snorts]

31:45 Are you content?

31:46 Um I am more content now than I've ever been.

31:50 Yeah.

31:50 Um and I'm getting to the point where I think I

31:54 probably am actually genuinely for the first time in my life.

31:59 Mhm.

31:59 Um because I think um Yeah.

32:06 I think my my dad died last year.

32:09 Mhm.

32:10 And it was a real wake-up call.

32:12 Mhm.

32:13 So, yeah, I think I am.

32:16 Was it a wake-up call because of the dad the way

32:19 dad led his life or because of your relationship with him?

32:22 Life's short.

32:23 Life's short.

32:24 Yeah.

32:25 Life is short and live it, do it, love it.

32:30 Yeah.

32:31 Be happy.

32:33 Yeah.

32:33 [snorts] [music] [music] [music]

32:58 No bananas Skilo and I wish.

33:00 Yes.

33:01 Um amongst my eclectic love of music,

33:04 I really love um R&B and hip-hop and rap, and I don't know why.

33:11 I really I don't I don't know what it is cuz I love

33:15 Sweet with Mack and I love Alicia It's quite quite diverse so far.

33:19 I mean, we kicked off with The Eve of War from War of the Worlds,

33:22 and we're now at Skilo I Wish with the declaration of your love of hip-hop.

33:26 around.

33:26 I've got a Mini.

33:27 I drive around Glasgow in my Mini, windows down, playing rap and hip-hop.

33:34 Brilliant.

33:33 This track speaks to me because I do wish I was a little bit taller,

33:37 but it's also a little bit of a drip homage to my love of which

33:41 my wife cannot understand at all how I can listen to so many different things,

33:48 why I love absolutely banging banging hip-hop and rap.

33:52 Let let me ask you a question.

33:53 Because of your eclectic taste in music, which we discovered this week,

33:57 um [snorts] and you've said that you like a little

34:00 bit of everything and not a lot of something.

34:04 Yeah.

34:03 Do you have a room, a garage, a shed,

34:05 something that has elements of everything that you are in it?

34:09 How does your home represent you both?

34:12 So, there's a slight conflict.

34:13 Um I think my wife's a sociopath because she does not enjoy any knickknacks.

34:19 Right?

34:19 She would have a bare house.

34:21 She's I don't know what's wrong with her.

34:22 Right.

34:23 So, the living room has nothing in it, basically.

34:26 And the other rooms are done.

34:27 So, the dining room, I would say possibly is the most me because in it,

34:32 it has what I would call a trophy cabinet.

34:35 Nice.

34:35 So, my Strictly Come Dancing balls are

34:37 my Richard Osman's House of Games trophies there,

34:39 my Crystal Maze trophies there, um my Dalek's there.

34:43 So, I've got a full Dalek I bought.

34:46 So, I've got a Dalek.

34:47 she loved that.

34:48 Oh, listen.

34:48 I've got a I've got a Dalek and a K9 and a Weeping Angel.

34:51 She's delighted.

34:53 I wanted to buy a Cyberman head.

34:57 And she said, "Well, why?" And I was like,

34:58 "Why are you even Why are you even Why are you even asking me that question?"

35:03 Yeah.

35:03 Why would you not Yeah.

35:05 want a Cyberman head?

35:08 And this is the problem.

35:09 I don't understand why would you not want that.

35:13 We were going to put it in the hall.

35:15 I went for dinner once dressed in my Luke Skywalker costume.

35:18 Yeah.

35:18 And uh that [snorts] that that was a difficult hour after that.

35:22 [laughter] Listen, I went to a museum once where they had a Fozzie Bear.

35:30 [laughter] And I A real one?

35:31 Oh, yeah, one of the originals.

35:32 Was it?

35:33 And I literally looked at the man,

35:35 and I was completely serious, and I don't know what happened.

35:36 I just went, "I'll give you 50 grand for it now."

35:38 And I like And I said to my Can I say wife?

35:42 And he went, "No." And I went,

35:43 "100?" Like I was going to pay 100,000 pounds for Fozzie Bear.

35:46 Like I would And then I said to my wife, I said,

35:48 "I wanted to buy Fozzie Bear." She said,

35:50 "Where would you put it?" And I said, "IN THE HALL!

35:52 WHY DO YOU KEEP asking me where we're going to put this thing?"

35:55 Everyone needs to see it.

35:56 Could you imagine walking to my house and what's there?

35:58 Fozzie Bear's there.

35:59 Oh, and then if you put the kettle on, we'd have tea sat opposite him.

36:02 Yeah.

36:03 Easy.

36:03 I would just look at it.

36:05 I would just look at it.

36:06 I'm not I would have GONE TO 250.

36:09 [laughter] [laughter] WE GET IT.

36:15 I'VE STILL GOT A MORTGAGE.

36:16 I'VE still got a mortgage with my dad.

36:19 But literally I would have I would have written the boy a check.

36:23 [laughter] And I would have arrived home with Fozzie Bear and no money.

36:28 I would have done it.

36:29 Yeah.

36:29 Um we've got to talk about the Tall Tales stand-up tour.

36:33 Yes.

36:33 It No, the first question is why is this your first big tour in 10 years?

36:38 So, uh 2016 I was out on tour.

36:40 Mhm.

36:40 I was offered a show called Strictly Come Dancing.

36:42 Mhm.

36:42 And then I started being offered offered for television presenting jobs.

36:46 Okay.

36:47 Um and when I stepped on stage for the first time last year,

36:49 end of last year, to do a preview gig for the first time,

36:52 first time on stage in 10 years, [clears throat] oh,

36:56 I thought I was going to be sick on myself.

36:57 Did you?

36:58 Oh, yeah.

36:59 How I write my stand-up is I don't write my stand-up.

37:01 So, I I have an idea.

37:03 Mhm.

37:03 I have to do it in front of an audience.

37:06 I don't write jokes.

37:09 I start off with the story, and I start it,

37:11 and if they laugh, I carry on, I carry on.

37:13 That's how I write.

37:14 I write in front of people with my brain There's

37:17 a part of me that when I stand on stage, part of my controlled brain unlocks.

37:23 And I find myself Fascinating.

37:25 in a different place, completely in the moment, Right.

37:29 and completely only thinking about what it is that I'm doing at that time.

37:34 And there is a freedom, and I remember when I first started doing stand-up,

37:37 the freedom that it gives me as someone who is always

37:40 I'm always concerned about what I'm saying and what I'm doing.

37:43 Stand-up is just It's like a portal to another dimension, stand-up.

37:48 Because when I'm doing stand-up, I'm a different person.

37:51 Right.

37:51 Um I I'm not a character at all, but I'm the Susan I wish I was.

37:56 This is amazing.

37:57 I'm uh flirtatious, and I'm confident, and I'm That's not me in real life.

38:02 To make it work, I have to be someone else.

38:06 Love that.

38:07 I'm the Susan It's the Susan my wife saw when I was on Strictly.

38:11 She called it Saturday Susan.

38:13 And she loved Saturday Susan.

38:15 Saturday Susan went out there.

38:18 Oh, hang on.

38:19 I was a confident woman.

38:19 Hang on.

38:20 Hang on.

38:20 Hang on.

38:20 Now I feel like Clare Balding.

38:24 [laughter] Right.

38:24 So, what if your wife wants more Saturday Susan?

38:29 [gasps] Um I TRY REALLY HARD.

38:31 [laughter] [screaming] YES!

38:33 THIS IS WHAT TRACKS OF MY YEARS is all about.

38:35 This is what it's all about.

38:36 See, all we ask you is to choose 10 tracks.

38:38 I know, and suddenly we're talking about the fact my wife is unhappy with me.

38:42 [laughter] Yeah.

38:42 No, it's cuz SHE WAS DANCING.

38:44 I WANT DANCING SUSAN.

38:46 WHAT SHE DIDN'T understand was how And it was the combination

38:48 of the performance and Kevin and the music and everything else.

38:52 When I walked out on stage and she saw a confident woman,

38:55 that's who I am when I do stand-up.

38:58 I love it.

38:59 Don't come for me when I do stand-up.

39:00 I'll take you down.

39:02 In real life, Yeah.

39:03 I hide in a cupboard.

39:05 Yeah.

39:05 [snorts] One of the things though about how I

39:07 am as well is I'm always watching other people.

39:09 I'm always observing other people.

39:11 I have a habit of analyzing people.

39:16 Mhm.

39:17 Um and so, I'm often just thinking about who you are.

39:23 And I don't know whether it's a stand-up thing because when you do stand-up,

39:26 the greatest stand-up Victoria Wood was a brilliant stand-up.

39:29 And Victoria Wood would always say, "When you describe,

39:31 you know, someone got out of a car, don't say that.

39:33 Don't say a blue car.

39:34 Say they got out of a blue Vauxhall Astra.

39:36 That will tell you who that person is.

39:38 Describe people." And so,

39:39 I'm always looking at people um so that when I'm writing I can describe people

39:44 in a way that makes you in the audience go I know exactly who that person is.

39:48 So I talk in my show about the fact that I play [clears throat] golf now.

39:52 Yeah.

39:52 And the women at my golf club are

39:53 the type of women who can wear dresses with belts.

39:58 I can't.

39:59 The belt ends up around my um top half within 30 seconds.

40:06 [laughter] But they can wear a dress with a belt.

40:08 And they move about and it never moves.

40:10 And they're the women I aspire to be.

40:11 I can't do [laughter] that.

40:14 But if you watch people and you look at people,

40:15 you're always thinking of ways that you can

40:17 The greatest comedy is is is a use of language.

40:21 This is what fascinates me about about life,

40:23 the use of language to make people laugh.

40:27 Mhm.

40:29 [music] [singing] [music] [music] We will end with a great track.

41:00 It is literally going to bring so many people so much sunshine.

41:03 Morecambe and Wise, Bring Me Sunshine.

41:05 It combines almost every part of my life.

41:08 Uh I grew up watching Morecambe and Wise.

41:11 Love them.

41:12 Not going to sell many ice creams going at that rate.

41:16 [laughter] I do the glasses thing.

41:16 I do Morecambe and Wise absolutely extraordinary, the two of them.

41:21 And it was kind and it was empathetic and they as people you want to love them.

41:29 They were their own bit of their own, yeah.

41:31 That's the key.

41:33 Every bit of humor in my show is self-deprecating towards me.

41:36 No one is going to come to that show feeling bad about themselves.

41:40 Cuz apart from MAYBE MY WIFE.

41:44 [laughter] [screaming] SHE DOES GET IT IN THE NECK QUITE A LOT.

41:48 SHE doesn't tell us to do it which filled in a pothole.

41:51 And honestly it makes me laugh so [laughter] Apart from me and her.

42:00 Yeah.

42:00 You know, because I'm the butt of the joke

42:02 and Morecambe and Wise right did that.

42:05 It was my favorite dance on Strictly Come Dancing.

42:08 The only time Craig Revel Horwood was vaguely nice about me.

42:12 We did a quickstep to this.

42:13 My mom and dad were in the audience which was very special.

42:17 And it was the first dance at my wedding.

42:19 Brilliant.

42:19 And I think the lyrics of this sum up my view on life.

42:24 Mhm.

42:25 They really do.

42:25 I think it's the most beautiful, tender,

42:28 gorgeous song and when you listen to it if you're of a certain age,

42:31 you can see Morecambe and Wise just dancing away there

42:34 and I just I absolutely adore it and it is a song

42:38 that that means a lot to me and I think

42:40 but I just just think it's so such a precious, beautiful thing.

42:44 Yeah, it's fab.

42:45 Susan Calman, thank you for your Tracks of My Years.

42:48 And it's been a joy and I know

42:49 so many people have appreciated you being so honest.

42:53 Thank you.

42:53 I've only cried twice so that's better [laughter] than I thought.

42:57 Thank you, Vernon.

42:57 Thank you.