NEW 'BLACKLIST': Actor Indya Moore Reveals Truth About Ellison Hollywood Merger
Breaking Points
0:00 Why don't we uh take a look at another industry in America
0:05 known as Hollywood with a special guest that we have this morning.
0:10 Uh we have to talk about the Hollywood merger.
0:16 We have uh actor India Moore here with us this morning.
0:21 Uh they are the star of FX's Pose
0:26 uh and one of these signatures over 4,000 signatures
0:30 on a petition to uh prevent or demand the stopping
0:35 of the merger between Warner Brothers and Paramount India.
0:39 Welcome to the show.
0:40 How are you this morning?
0:41 Thank you.
0:41 I'm okay.
0:42 How are you?
0:44 Okay, good.
0:44 Thanks for asking.
0:45 Um okay is understandable and considering the news.
0:49 I'm grateful.
0:50 I'm grateful.
0:52 I'm so grateful.
0:54 We're We're grateful to have you.
0:55 Maybe not grateful for this merger,
0:56 but uh we wanted you to react to the news yesterday that the Warner
1:02 Brothers shareholders have approved this $81 billion
1:06 merger uh to combine Paramount and Warner Brothers.
1:11 Uh what is your reaction to that and why
1:13 did you uh sign your name on this petition?
1:18 Um I think uh well my reaction is that I
1:21 was really disappointed and heart sunk but also not surprised.
1:26 I think that shareholders are prioritizing and um
1:30 are centering you know their financial interests
1:34 and not really the interests of the people
1:37 who ultimately we're serving through our art.
1:40 I think that it's a it's a difficult sort of dissonance between the artists,
1:46 the creatives, and the people who have money, you know, the business people.
1:52 I don't think that they're their values are not always
1:54 in alignment with the motivations of the artists of today.
1:59 And I think that's what makes this merger so difficult.
2:04 And what are some of the Oh, go ahead, Crystal.
2:05 I was just going to ask, what are some of the the industry impacts that you're
2:10 most concerned about here from an artist's creative perspective?
2:15 Well, I think that I what it seems is that Paramount,
2:20 the creatives, the the not the creatives,
2:23 excuse me, but the executives behind Paramount seem
2:27 to be in political solidarity with the current administration.
2:31 And you know, I I think the the political
2:37 agenda of the current administration is really scary.
2:42 You know, they're prioritizing a sort of homogeneous monolith of values
2:50 and principles that don't fit everyone and that don't include everyone.
2:55 And I think that you know based on what
2:57 we've seen so much of this um the political landscape
3:01 that the administration has created is one where they are um
3:06 deciding ultimately who deserves to live and who deserves to die.
3:12 And I think that it's really really unfortunate.
3:16 I don't think that um I think our job
3:20 as an art as artists is to reflect the times.
3:25 is to reflect people.
3:27 It's to reflect the truths that people are
3:29 living and experiencing and also to innovate, right?
3:32 It's also to to be really creative in what we imagine um for our future,
3:38 what we imagine for ourselves, for each other.
3:41 And I think so much of that could be
3:44 so beautiful and it can include so many people.
3:48 Um and it should, right?
3:49 But I think that the current administration
3:52 feels like a betrayal of the American
3:54 dream because I think the American dream is ultimately what everybody deserves.
4:00 It's to live.
4:02 It's to have a family.
4:03 It's to be safe.
4:05 It's to um you know have h have to have you know your country respect you.
4:10 And um they're picking and choosing who gets to be a part of that.
4:14 And I think that this is what this merger is going to amplify in our works.
4:19 You know, I think they're going to continue to amplify the sort
4:22 of messaging of who gets to be represented and and who doesn't.
4:26 And that should never be up to people who are
4:30 whose values are not people whose values are money, you know.
4:34 And um I think that it it's um I think that it's really unfortunate,
4:40 but it's not a done deal.
4:42 The fight is not over.
4:44 And I think that there's a lot, you know, that people could remain hopeful for.
4:48 I think we we have to continue to um sustain pressure,
4:51 but I think it's also really important to look at what that pressure is.
4:55 Is that pressure us screaming, you know, and saying no, no, this is wrong,
5:01 or is it actually bringing context to why this is a devastating decision, right?
5:06 And I think that context um that I would
5:10 hope people um are able to amplify and deliver
5:15 is that the reason why we reflect the experiences
5:18 of different people is because we live with different people.
5:22 We share the earth with different people.
5:25 You know, we share our cities with different people,
5:28 the land, you know, supermarkets, you know, businesses.
5:34 And I think that if if if we're not able to rationalize why it's
5:39 important to include everybody on a planet
5:42 that we're all from that includes everybody,
5:45 I think we're going to have a lot of difficulty
5:47 not just in in understanding why a merger is bad,
5:51 but also in understanding why it's important to love.
5:55 I think ultimately for me the political question hits a wall at some point.
6:03 You know, the pol the political question is it
6:06 hits a wall when at some point people are like,
6:09 well, why should I care about issues that I'm not affected by?
6:13 And that's hard to explain if you don't have love.
6:17 You know, if if love is not something that is a value and something
6:21 that we're not we're not actually sharing
6:24 a definition around and exploring what that is.
6:27 And it's okay that a lot of us
6:29 struggle with understanding what that means for each
6:32 other and what the responsibility love holds us
6:36 to with one another on a shared planet.
6:39 But I think that art would not exist without love.
6:45 And for you as on a like a concrete level as an artist,
6:48 if let's say this merger does go through
6:51 and basically all of the entities within this new
6:55 company become basically political u vehicles that are
7:00 off limits to a huge swath of artists.
7:04 Like what does that take off the table for you as you're thinking about
7:07 like what projects are possible and like
7:10 where where where where are the spaces where
7:12 at in a world where this is approved and goes through where are the spaces where
7:16 freedom of expression can still flourish like Netflix
7:21 like are they still decent like what's the I hope so
7:24 as artists are thinking like okay this would be
7:25 a cool show let's pitch it to XYZ like
7:30 what are what are the places left where if
7:32 you have something that's a little I'm not sure.
7:35 I'm not sure what a safe where the safe spaces are.
7:38 Um I think we were still on a journey to creating safe spaces for people
7:43 who have historically been marginalized for who
7:46 they are before this administration came in.
7:49 You know, we were already still in that journey.
7:52 Um and so I think uh the bar has been set a lot lower.
7:58 Um, and I think, you know, if what it means for me is that, you know,
8:05 it's going to be a lot more difficult for me to work.
8:08 You know, um, I've been really vocal about the importance of, um,
8:14 not not fighting with other not hurting innocent civilians and people,
8:20 not not engaging in irrational wars.
8:23 um and also the the the lack the lack of need that there's no need
8:28 for for this uh the kind of uh war and conflicts that we're seeing right now.
8:33 And so I think that if if people who are also if
8:39 people are benefiting from the war and those same people who are benefiting
8:44 from the war are also behind the media landscape and who gets to work
8:49 then people who are anti-war are going to have a difficult time working.
8:53 Um, and I think also, um, you know,
8:57 I I am a woman of trans experience and I know that a lot
9:02 of people have different ex different different
9:06 opinions or or beliefs or projections about whether,
9:10 you know, my expression of the sincerity of my inner
9:13 witness of myself is true or not um, as a woman.
9:17 And I don't think that I think people deserve to work out for themselves
9:21 how they are trying to figure out what it means to to understand people, right?
9:28 Everybody deserves to have that journey.
9:30 But I think um there's so much more at stake for people who are who are seen
9:36 as um less important or less valuable or just
9:41 weird because of the way that they exist.
9:44 And um I think that that's becoming such a political issue and it shouldn't be.
9:50 Um I think that it's a devastating
9:54 it's a devastating direction that we've gone in.
9:57 My hope is that I think my hope is that you know we will still be able to have
10:05 the resources and motivation and love to continue to build
10:11 and create our own foundations for media for media and storytelling.
10:17 Um I think that that's a really important thing but I
10:20 also think it's important for everyone to value everyone's story.
10:24 I think it's incredibly important for every single
10:26 person who carries a different experience to also
10:30 think about other people who carry a different
10:32 experience in their pursuit to creating spaces for storytelling.
10:37 Because ultimately, you know,
10:38 what we want to fight against is this idea that stories
10:45 get to be told one way and for one kind of people.
10:49 And um I think that when we do take on the responsibility
10:55 of creating spaces for people um
10:58 to reflect reality that it's respected, you know,
11:03 and um I think like it's really interesting
11:11 because you can take a snapshot of someone's
11:15 life and make a movie out of it and then someone will call it political.
11:19 But for that person that the snapshot is made of, they're just existing, right?
11:25 And so I think that even the language political is really confusing.
11:32 It's really scary.
11:32 And I think it's been weaponized in a way
11:34 that has manufactured consent to erase people.
11:38 You know, you see a black person on TV, oh that's political.
11:41 You know, it's like we don't want politics.
11:44 And so politics has become a a word to codify um like trouble or discomfort or
11:54 chaos.
11:54 And it's really unfair to I think to create
11:59 a broad I think landscape out of that when
12:06 that landscape is made out of just regular people trying
12:10 to live their life who just exist who are human.
12:14 So I think we have a lot to do in depoliticizing Sorry.
12:19 Oh, no.
12:19 No.
12:20 I was just going to say I was just going to say
12:21 we have a lot of depoliticizing what it means to be alive.
12:25 And um I think that you know we have
12:29 to we have to be careful not to define politics
12:33 by this notion of who gets to live and who deserves
12:37 not to live because ultimately that's what we're seeing right now.
12:41 And it's it's not it's not good
12:44 for the future of our humanity for anyone's humanity.
12:47 And I think the people who are who are unaffected the most should care the most.
12:53 You know, the people who are affected the most are very angry,
12:57 are very hurt, are traumatized, are scared,
13:01 especially when those people don't have resources.
13:03 So, I think that we need more voices.
13:06 We need more people who can articulate why this is wrong without having,
13:11 you know, people who don't who don't who wouldn't be affected.
13:14 I think are are really are really
13:16 are really important figures to rationalize why
13:19 it's important for us to include as many
13:22 people and everything that is about people.
13:27 Yeah.
13:27 And I wanted to ask about artificial intelligence because my own
13:30 perspective on this is that there was already the industry
13:32 was already overly consolidated and that was already creating some
13:36 real ideological weaponization might be the right way to put it.
13:40 But with artificial intelligence,
13:42 I mean everything that's getting fed into the AI.
13:44 The new season of the comeback is actually really interesting on this.
13:47 Um I was curious in what you're you're seeing
13:50 around you like what is the mood of the industry?
13:53 The letter has so many signitories.
13:56 you're starting to see this uh problems with AI
13:59 consolidation be expressed in some of the art itself.
14:02 Like I just mentioned the season of the comeback,
14:05 there's a real uh it seems to me from the outside,
14:09 you really do sense that there's some life left
14:12 in the artists and the creatives who are pushing back
14:14 right now that splashy Hollywood Reporter profile of the writer
14:17 who had been uh he's now working as a contractor.
14:20 He couldn't find work uh that was published
14:22 this week and he's now working as a contractor.
14:25 It seems like people are really really really
14:27 starting to push back and uh raise the alarm.
14:30 Is that your sense?
14:30 Like what are you seeing around you uh on the ground in the LA area?
14:36 I'm not in LA um in the industry or I guess good for you.
14:41 Yeah, I'm not good choice.
14:42 Sorry.
14:46 Yeah.
14:45 Um I think people are I think there's two things that are happening.
14:50 I think that there are people who just really want to work and who
14:53 are um who are trying to protect themselves by maybe not being too vocal.
14:58 And I think that there are people who um are
15:02 also who are who are worried about other people's experience.
15:05 A lot of people who are worried about
15:06 other people's experiences um who are being vocal,
15:10 you know, and who are fighting back, you know.
15:12 So, I think that that's really important.
15:14 artificial intelligence is just another way I think um
15:19 I think it's another way that people are being erased.
15:22 You know, a lot of a lot of you know the heart
15:24 of what of what it means to interface with a person that really exists.
15:29 you know, where uh an artist is is drawing from something
15:36 that comes from the force that makes them alive when they're,
15:41 you know, either writing on paper or performing on screen.
15:45 And that it's really scary.
15:49 We don't know what the invisible connections are
15:51 between a person that is interfacing with art is,
15:55 you know, like we don't know what the metaphysical
15:58 relationship is to the way that we receive art.
16:01 But I think that if we replace I'm I mean
16:04 like I'm I don't mean to get woo woo, but like No, please.
16:08 I have like a we're not afraid.
16:10 Yeah.
16:12 But like I think that you know it is it's it
16:16 it is it feels spiritually disrespectful
16:19 to replace art with artificial intelligence.
16:23 I think that um I think a lot of people feel that.
16:26 Yeah.
16:26 There's something that feels um like it's between what makes us alive,
16:30 what makes us live and the stories that come from that.
16:34 And so I think that it's it's really it I feel um
16:38 really sad and emotional about anything that is taking away from life.
16:43 Um I I don't know.
16:45 I I think that life or money life money.
16:50 But those things shouldn't it shouldn't be life or money.
16:53 It should it should be life and money sort of.
16:57 Oh yeah.
16:57 Yeah.
16:58 Well, I am very sympathetic to the woowoo case.
17:02 Uh, but for people who maybe just treat movies and TV shows as entertainment,
17:07 I do think there's a ton for anyone to be worried about with this merger because
17:12 not only is it going to potentially silence
17:15 uh interesting stories like the ones that you've mentioned,
17:17 but there's just going to be less a lot less movies, TV shows, and jobs.
17:23 Now, I know a lot of people that work at Paramount,
17:26 and they talk about how everyone at Paramount is walking
17:28 around kind of like The Walking Dead, like a zombie.
17:31 they all kind of know when these mergers
17:33 hit that there's going to be mass layoffs.
17:36 Um, and for anyone that's uh used Netflix over the last 5 years,
17:42 you can see sort of the sloppification of content.
17:46 There's just a million shows that look thinner and feel thinner and don't
17:50 feel like the the the movies and TV shows that we used to watch.
17:55 And and that comes from sort of a industry consolidation.
17:59 Um, and of course this one is a major one.
18:01 I just wanted to list off some of the consolidation that Larry Ellison
18:05 and David Ellison um would be now owning if this merger goes through.
18:09 Tik Tok, Warner Brothers, Paramount, DC Studios,
18:13 Discovery Channel, CNN, CBS, HBO, Fandango, Run Tomatoes, Nickelodeon,
18:19 MTV, Cartoon Network, Food Network, Travel Channel,
18:22 Animal Planet, Comedy Central, Showtime, TBS, HGTV, among others.
18:29 So, it does seem like there is going to be a lot
18:32 less for you to watch and what it will be will be worse.
18:36 Is there is there a fear in Hollywood right now being less jobs?
18:42 I I can't I think yes.
18:44 I think um there's a fear for less
18:47 jobs for everyone outside of Hollywood as well.
18:50 But I just want to say it's extremely frustrating
18:53 for you know the Ellison's you know and I
18:56 I wish I you know I think that I wish I wish them well in life honestly.
19:00 I I really want them to be able
19:02 to have fruitful lives without destroying other people's.
19:06 But I think that it's really frustrating.
19:08 I think um I heard um the elder Ellison say something to the degree
19:12 of um um I there was like a speech or something that he
19:19 gave to the beat of um creating a system of surveillance or some
19:26 kind of system that ensures that people are well behaved or something like that.
19:29 I don't know if you remember that.
19:31 It'll be on their best behavior.
19:33 Yeah, that it's really it's really patronizing.
19:36 It's really condescending.
19:38 And I think it's really stupid because these are
19:40 some of the most um unbehaved people on the planet.
19:45 You know, I think that they're supporting people who behave horribly,
19:49 you know, toward other people.
19:50 So, we don't really, you know,
19:51 when I look down at when I look at what it means to be well behaved to them,
19:55 it's really to be submissive.
19:57 you know, they're calling our good behavior submission.
20:00 And um you know, I I think that that's really really um it's terrible.
20:06 You know, they're they're turning people into into slaves, right?
20:10 They want to they want to create um they want
20:12 to create a a new sort a neo forgive me for I
20:16 don't know if I can uh find a better language
20:18 for this but you know when if you can't if you can't
20:22 tell the truth about what your experience is about what you're
20:26 about what you're seeing if you can't complain about the experience
20:29 you're having if you can't if you can't protest um oppression
20:34 and hurt you know like or neglect that's that's not good behavior.
20:41 That is that's oppression.
20:44 That's slavery.
20:45 Right?
20:45 So, I think that that's an issue
20:47 and I don't have faith in whatever they're doing.
20:50 I think that whatever they're doing, it's it's very dark and and it's scary.
20:55 I also want to say that everyone should
21:01 be concerned with the advent of AI especially
21:05 in TV and film but especially most of the people
21:09 who would be audiences to what we make.
21:12 Most of the people who are audiences to TV
21:14 and film are not are not like business owners.
21:19 They're not entrepreneurs.
21:20 A lot of them are people who work under business owners.
21:24 They work under they work under entrepreneurs.
21:27 These are people who do mo a lot of manual labor.
21:30 These are people who um you know um who who work very hard
21:35 to bag our groceries to scan our groceries
21:38 when we're checking out in a supermarket.
21:40 These are people who um work in in in different areas of service, right?
21:46 And I think that if those people don't speak up,
21:50 those people are also manufacturing consent for their jobs to be replaced by AI.
21:55 So this is a this is a a really if we look at TV and film and um the consumer
22:02 base that we have um the people who are
22:06 made up of the consumer base of media are people
22:09 who are are working you know hard labor that is
22:16 being threat that and that hard labor is being threatened
22:19 to be replaced with the same sorts of computer systems
22:23 that we're seeing um generating uh TV and film content.
22:27 So there the the connections are overwhelming
22:32 and and and and they they are um it's just there's so
22:38 there's just so many reasons why everybody should have an issue with this.
22:42 And I think a lot of us are tired.
22:45 I'm tired.
22:46 You know, my I'm tired.
22:47 I am so we're all tired and for so many different reasons, you know,
22:51 like I'm trying to heal from my own, you know, background in history,
22:56 what I've gone through and it's exhausting and like the the constant
23:03 um there's so much fight that we have to do,
23:06 but I think that we have to evolve the way that we're fighting.
23:09 We have to speak of the way that we're fighting so that so
23:12 that the the way that we're fighting doesn't just take away from us,
23:15 but it also gives to us.
23:17 And I think that we're not going to win what we're doing if we don't send love.
23:21 I really believe that.
23:23 Speaking of the fight, it it now the shareholders have approved it.
23:26 Um some people are calling on California
23:29 attorney general to still block the merger.
23:32 I guess my final question um if I could get from you India
23:35 and thank you so much for coming on the show is do you do you
23:39 fear a career reprisal from signing this list because this list of people is
23:44 big but obviously this could easily turn into a blacklist um if you sign this
23:49 oh for sure it already is I mean I'm already on a blacklist
23:54 I I guess I I would hope not you know but I think
24:00 Like I think I think we need we need someone to represent people
24:13 who care about people who have who has a lot of power who
24:18 was behind um you know I wish Mark Ruffalo and um you know um
24:28 there's a ton of names on the Robert Daenerys has just joined.
24:31 Poly Hunter, Sophia Kofa.
24:34 Yeah.
24:34 Like, but I think a lot of some of these people are still working, right?
24:38 A lot of these people are still working.
24:39 A lot of these people have been vocal
24:41 about the most controversial things and they're still working.
24:43 And I think that if they are not in solidarity
24:46 with artists who share and who who share the same values,
24:51 who've given up their visibility,
24:53 their platforms, their careers to sounding the alarm,
24:59 you know, to in what's happening to humanity,
25:02 not just in these silos that we're referring to industries, you know,
25:07 that we're referring to as industries like but like I think
25:10 that everybody everybody has to Like I think all of these people
25:14 have to I mean I would encourage them um you know Pedro
25:18 Pascal like you know these are like I I I would love
25:22 for them to advocate more for artists to not be black balled
25:28 you know for valuing other people you know um the I I
25:33 I I think that it's just we're we're advocating in silos and I
25:40 think that if we're not creating more um more solidarity across artistry,
25:47 across talent, across industry,
25:49 then it's going to be a lot more difficult to fight to fight back,
25:53 I think, to push back against this.
25:55 So, I mean, that's my message.
25:57 I think it's intersectional um advocacy and solidarity and um I think um
26:04 I hope that people are willing to take up the challenge to do that.
26:08 Okay, fantastic.
26:09 Well, India, thank you so much for joining us today.
26:11 We hope uh that this merger um has a different
26:14 outcome than what it seems is coming on the horizon.
26:17 Uh we'll of course link uh to you in our video description.
26:21 Thank you so much for joining us today.
26:23 Great to meet you and thank you so much
26:24 for your work and for amplifying um you know what's going on.
26:27 I really appreciate it.
26:28 Nice to meet you all.
26:29 I hope
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