Kirby Smart Joins Josh Pate - Pate State Speaker Series

0:00 You and I are sitting right here this time last year

0:02 and we were talking about all the changes happening and you were like

0:04 the one thing I would love to just know is I would

0:06 love to know who's going to be on my team in spring.

0:09 So now we're at the place where we don't have the whole postspring portal.

0:13 Uh how has that changed the dynamic around your program?

0:16 It's interesting you you say individually to to our program.

0:19 I think it's changed very little because we didn't lose many guys

0:22 in the second portal and we did not take many guys in the second portal.

0:26 We have not been a big second portal team.

0:28 I think it changed a lot in college football because some

0:32 teams uh tried to revamp their roster at that point in time.

0:35 So, um I think going into January from the point

0:39 I don't know the exact date that the portal closed.

0:41 Let's call it January 10th or 15th, whenever it actually closed.

0:44 From that point on, man, you could dig deep.

0:47 You could actually have uh connection meetings.

0:50 You could do all these things to build your team

0:52 because you knew that your team was your team.

0:54 Now, you didn't know about injuries.

0:55 You didn't know about this and that.

0:56 We had some new guys on our roster.

0:58 We had 26 new freshman.

0:59 We had eight new portals.

1:01 So, like with all that going on, we had new people,

1:03 but at least we knew they were ours.

1:04 And going through spring practice to me was much more enjoyable cuz you didn't

1:09 have this uh big dark cloud brewing of was he going to be here?

1:14 Is his agent going to is he is agent going to shop him around?

1:18 Is he going to leave?

1:19 Is he going to lose transfer hours and not graduate?

1:21 Like, it scares me to death dealing with that second one.

1:24 And I do have some deficiencies in my roster

1:26 that we would have gone out and gotten other people.

1:28 So, we gave up something to to gain a little continuity.

1:32 And I think the players have better relationship with each

1:34 other because they know they don't have the the worry,

1:36 Josh, of man, should I go?

1:38 Should I call mom and dad?

1:39 Like, coach, where am I going to be at on the depth chart?

1:41 Like, quit worrying about that and just get better because running

1:44 to another school is not going to just save you by doing that.

1:47 Well, that's what I was going to ask you.

1:48 I mean, there are a lot of places, Georgia,

1:50 but pretty much every place probably just went through

1:53 spring and at some point on the roster said,

1:56 "Man, I wish we were a lot better here."

1:57 And I know if we had a post spring portal, we could get a little better there.

2:01 But, you know, you're sitting here telling me, "Yeah,

2:03 I know all that, but then I got to remind myself, hey,

2:05 the alternative sucks a whole lot more than me

2:08 maybe not quite having the depth at outside linebacker,

2:10 left tackle that I want." Exactly what I'm telling you.

2:12 And I'm also telling you the sanity of knowing that now

2:16 it's you coaching against me and me coaching against you.

2:20 Who makes their players better?

2:22 That's what the word coach is.

2:24 Like it's it derived from stage coach where

2:26 you took somebody from one place to the other.

2:28 So like where are you taking your players

2:32 instead of shipping them off and importing them?

2:36 And to be honest, we did a big study on a lot

2:38 of the portal exchanges in the second

2:39 portal and there was very little effective movement.

2:43 Meaning, I call it swap and spit.

2:46 You you just took somebody else's two or three and they took your two

2:49 or three and then you you traded and all you got was a new person.

2:52 You didn't necessarily get somebody that now

2:54 there's guys that maybe made an impact.

2:56 People can go out and say, "Well, he's wrong.

2:57 They had two or three people that made these huge

2:59 impacts and look at the totality of who moved." Okay,

3:03 I'm going to tell you now in our study, over 80% of the people had no impact.

3:08 So, all they were doing is moving to move.

3:10 They were just moving to move.

3:11 And we're like, let's let's make our players better.

3:13 And let's say the ones we lifted and practiced all last winter

3:18 that they're ours now and they're better now because they stayed here.

3:21 You know what I have a lot of trouble with is

3:22 you got the whole piece of what should and shouldn't be.

3:25 And that's what people waste most of their time arguing about.

3:28 But if you take that and set it off to the side,

3:30 just what is is what is right now.

3:31 now.

3:31 So, you got a lot of movement, you got a lot of churn in the sport.

3:34 I wonder if we hit fast forward 15 years.

3:36 It's 2040.

3:38 I'm pretty sure we're going to have a large group of players

3:42 who were 15 years removed from their career who never really

3:45 planted developmental roots anywhere and they moved around a lot and they

3:48 probably made a little bit of money relative to your lifespan.

3:51 A little bit of money,

3:51 a few hundred,000 that's long since been burned by that point.

3:54 And you're going to have documentary after documentary of guys doing

3:58 what we're doing right now saying to whoever's talking to him, "Man,

4:01 I wish that I would have had 40-year-old me's perspective and I could

4:06 have just stuck it out a little bit." But at the same time,

4:09 it's really hard to have that conversation with a 19-year-old person who

4:11 has at that time life-changing money being put in front of them.

4:15 Everything you said is true and I wrestle with it all the time because

4:18 I am not a person that believes kids should not be able to transfer.

4:23 The kids should not be able to move.

4:25 They're more transient than ever.

4:27 They can up and go.

4:28 They have uh they have a vehicle to so many schools through social media.

4:32 They have friendships with all these kids at all these places.

4:34 So, it's a completely different world we're in now.

4:37 But I promise you in 15 years there's going to be if

4:40 you just take the body of of I'm not talking about student athletes.

4:43 You just take the body of the the highest

4:46 NIL guys and they had an earning power.

4:49 Whatever that earning power was of x amount of money for a short amount of time,

4:53 they need to maximize that was what people will say.

4:55 That's their earning power.

4:57 You shouldn't apologize for what they make.

4:59 The mental health issues that will come out of this 15 to 20 years from now.

5:03 That that doesn't mean it's right or wrong.

5:05 Doesn't mean that they should be capped or they should not have this or that.

5:09 I'm just telling you, I'll watch it.

5:10 We have more kids now living by themselves.

5:12 We have kids who, you know,

5:14 live in a dorm or an apartment their first year on campus.

5:16 That's what most schools do.

5:17 90% colleges start you off, you know,

5:19 on campus and you have friends, you have roommates.

5:22 They go out and buy apartments because they can.

5:25 Number one, that's very wasteful.

5:26 Number two, it's not good for your mental

5:29 state of mind to not live with someone.

5:31 I mean, your hardest years of college will be your first two or three

5:34 when you're out there struggling to play and now you're dealing with self-doubt,

5:38 living by yourself, questioning things.

5:40 I have watched it go through all these kids and I'm just I I worry.

5:44 So I don't worry about the money the money they make.

5:46 Most of them have financial managers.

5:47 Most of them will have people put that money away.

5:49 I worry about when they get in the real world and they don't make that.

5:53 And the argument against it is well that's good.

5:55 That's their earning power.

5:56 They had that opportunity.

5:57 It makes you feel like a failure when you go out and you're you made more

6:01 in your first three years of college than you do the next 20 years of your life.

6:05 Yeah.

6:05 And the other thing is if you're older than like 30,

6:10 you've kind of grown up if you're a college football

6:11 fan and your perception of the head coach of a major

6:14 program is like this general who uh you know

6:18 gives a command and everyone in the building follows it.

6:21 There's some realities to that.

6:23 But then what you're talking about is you could probably, you know,

6:26 disseminate messaging and wisdom all you want

6:29 to, but then there's the reality if guys have money,

6:31 they're going to do what they want to do outside this building.

6:34 And at the same time,

6:35 you're not even sitting here talking about the morality of it,

6:37 the right and wrong, the legal ease of it.

6:39 You're just talking about things that you technically can

6:43 do that maybe it's not the wisest thing to do.

6:46 And I got to imagine that's a tough message.

6:47 It's a tough message to get across to full grown adults,

6:50 much less 18, 19, 20 year old kids.

6:52 Really hard to because I don't think they have the foresight

6:56 to know that income is probably not going to be sustainable.

7:00 Like it's it's just not.

7:01 He's like, "Well, they're going to make the NFL." Even if they make the NFL,

7:04 it's two or three years, right?

7:05 And there are players taking pay cuts to go to the NFL.

7:08 You know, we know what league minimum is in the National Football League.

7:11 So, it's like, okay, they might make that for four years of college.

7:14 They might make that for three years in the NFL, but long term, they're not.

7:17 So, we're trying to teach financial wisdom.

7:19 Sometimes it goes in one ear and out the other.

7:21 I have I have convinced myself we have got

7:24 to show them uh realistic ways to invest and make money.

7:28 And we bring speakers in to do that.

7:30 I mean, we all talk about tax education, financial education.

7:32 We're all like, we're so invested in that now

7:35 than we ever were before because we see the pitfalls.

7:38 We see what they're some of these kids are spending that money on.

7:41 And that's the part I feel like, man,

7:43 I'm failing these guys if they don't invest

7:46 in real estate with that money they make.

7:48 They don't go in with maybe an alumni and say,

7:50 "Hey, this guy's building a apartment.

7:52 He wants you to be part of this.

7:53 You know, you graduate.

7:54 You should jump in with him and and and and make

7:57 your money make money." Then I feel like we did a good thing.

8:00 But so many of the kids move so quickly

8:02 that they don't have an attachment to a university.

8:04 I mean, what's going to be home 10 years from now?

8:07 Where are you going back to when you went to three different schools?

8:10 Well, that's the other thing.

8:10 If I played right guard for you for four years,

8:14 hopefully I made it to the league.

8:15 But even if I didn't,

8:16 I know there there are some folks that I've known from the time

8:19 I was a sophomore in high school to the time I was

8:20 in school to the time I was out of school in that alumni

8:22 network that I could probably call for the rest of my life.

8:25 And that that that who you know over what you know is way more important.

8:30 Okay.

8:30 Now people say, "Well, no,

8:31 you could never you could never make that kind of the people you meet

8:34 in alumni and you go out and use those resources at any school you're at." Huge.

8:38 Oh my god.

8:39 They they put you in one deal.

8:40 They give you one opportunity and that opportunity makes money far

8:43 greater than we're talking about on the the average median NIL guy.

8:47 Now, there's kids that are making generational money in college football now.

8:50 More power to them.

8:51 and those make hard decisions,

8:53 but for the most part that all the kids aren't making that kind of money.

8:56 Yeah.

8:57 How have you seen the relationship,

8:58 the concept of the relationship change over let's say your last 20 years?

9:02 Um, you're at VA, what 07, something like that.

9:06 So, so we're coming up on 20 years of just

9:08 that kind of run where you've been at two

9:10 programs and it was back in the day

9:12 in recruiting all about relationships and you know the kid

9:15 and you know the kid's entire extended family and I

9:18 know there's still a version of that but also

9:20 the other version is sometimes it just comes

9:23 down to a bottom line conversation a transactionalbased conversation.

9:26 Well, where does the balance of the concept

9:28 of the relationship fall in all that?

9:30 Yeah, it used to be I mean let's be honest it was all relationship.

9:33 If I would have said 90% relationship,

9:35 like 10% development all those years at Bama

9:38 and then the early years at Georgia,

9:40 my role was different cuz now I was head coach, not defensive coordinator,

9:42 but it still was relationship based and NIL definitely changed

9:47 that, but it didn't change it to a 9010 flip the other way.

9:50 You know, it's still interesting to me when you start recruiting someone

9:54 and some of our coaches that have been with me for four,

9:57 five, six years, they figured out I can figure out within the first

10:00 two months of recruiting a junior sophomore if they're a relationship family.

10:04 Now, everybody's a financial family.

10:06 Everybody, I mean, it doesn't matter what kind of money

10:08 where you come from and come that does matter, but maybe it's 50/50.

10:12 And I tell our coaches all the time,

10:14 get me at least 50% relationship and then 50%

10:17 the other because once it teeters on the other side,

10:20 uh, it doesn't end well because they're also the first to look for raises.

10:23 They're also the first to look in the portal.

10:25 They're also the first to leverage to leave

10:27 with a with an agent and leverage you to get more money.

10:29 So like if we can get it to 50% relationship starting off and stay there,

10:33 then that's pretty good.

10:34 But it has changed definitely.

10:36 But it's not like people think where it's like it's only the bottom line number.

10:39 There are families, there are people out there that want the development.

10:43 They want the relationship.

10:44 I mean, I got a nephew going through recruiting right now and the first thing,

10:48 my sister said to me was like, "Well, I don't want it to be just a number.

10:51 I want it to be a relationship, you know,

10:53 and and that matters to people." I watched

10:57 Indiana do what they did last year and I

10:59 watched in amazement and I it's similar like

11:01 in my world when a when a show blows up.

11:04 I can't help but view it through the lens of what

11:06 I do and view it a little bit comparatively not

11:09 in a sense of I'm measuring myself against them but I'm

11:11 wondering are they doing things that I need to be doing?

11:14 Are are they with some advanced practices maybe or whatnot?

11:18 How do you watch something like Indiana happen last year?

11:22 Like how do you view that?

11:24 Yeah, I think it's I didn't I couldn't really view it in the season.

11:26 You're so engulfed.

11:27 I'm worried about, you know, Alabama.

11:29 I'm worried about everybody we're playing and uh I don't get to really

11:33 watch it and then you step back and kind of in the playoff run,

11:37 you start looking back going, "Wait,

11:38 they're doing something different here." Like, woo, woo!

11:41 Everybody doubted and doubted and doubted

11:42 and they didn't doubt, they never doubted.

11:44 They had complete confidence and they played really well.

11:46 I think what you're seeing in college football right now,

11:48 at least among the people I talked to, everybody's like,

11:50 "Well, well, what did they do?

11:52 What are their practice faces?" I mean,

11:54 coach Signetti is very open about being short fast,

11:57 not being on the field long, being really sharp.

11:59 That's interesting to me because um we try to be short,

12:02 but we try to be really high energy and go really fast,

12:06 not be on the field more than two hours.

12:07 They were less than that sometimes.

12:09 Yes, they were an old team.

12:10 Everybody's like, "Well,

12:11 they're an old team." It's going to be a great study to see how that how

12:15 that how that moves forward because a lot

12:17 of people are going to copy that model.

12:18 Do they have Fernando Mendoza?

12:20 Do they have uh some of the players?

12:22 They have great scheme, too.

12:23 I mean, you talk to the coaches they play against,

12:25 defensive coordinator, offense coordinator, do an incredible job.

12:27 Kurt is a incredible game manager.

12:30 I mean, he worked for Nick like I did.

12:32 He knows the ins and outs.

12:33 So, it's very interesting to see is that going to continue?

12:37 Was it the was it the magic formula or was it a really good group of players?

12:42 Because I mean, they did things defensively, they did things offensively.

12:46 They they didn't just like win close games, they beat people.

12:50 Yeah.

12:50 I think what stood out to me the most is they got a guy that wins

12:53 the Heisman Trophy and then probably plays

12:54 his best ball after winning the Heisman Trophy,

12:57 which is pretty synonymous with whoever's winning these days.

13:00 They're peing at the right time.

13:01 And so there's a weird way to ask

13:05 this question cuz it almost sounds like I'm saying, "Well,

13:08 man, do you back off a little bit

13:09 to start the season and then hit the gas late?"

13:12 There's this fine line of wanting to enter the season full speed,

13:14 but also understanding the ones who are playing their best at the right

13:17 time are the ones who are going to win national championships.

13:21 Back in the day, you couldn't afford to lose a game, right?

13:23 Now you can afford to.

13:24 There's a little bit more safety net under you.

13:25 How does that change the way you as a coach prepare

13:29 and and how you like structure organizationally how you approach a season?

13:34 Yeah, I think it's starting to take more and more shape.

13:36 We're figuring this thing out, right?

13:37 We're at 12, expecting to maybe go up in years in the future,

13:40 but we're still trying to figure the 12 out.

13:42 And I can tell you when you start looking at the 12 and you're like,

13:46 "Okay, um, two times we've gone and lost the first game.

13:50 Both times after winning uh the the SEC championship,

13:54 you have to start saying, are you peing too early?

13:57 Are you uh complacent?" Like you look in intrinsically to say,

14:01 "What are we doing wrong?

14:02 What could we do better?" Then you look at everybody else and you're like,

14:04 "Who's the hottest team?

14:05 Who's playing well?

14:06 Who's got this and that?" The common denominators me are crazy.

14:09 I mean, it's a lot of portal quarterbacks um

14:11 that have won or been in the final four.

14:14 Um it's a lot of peing is playing well.

14:16 Um I don't know in our conference that you can take

14:19 the approach of let's grow into it cuz there there's a you

14:24 know there's there's game one sometimes game three in our league game

14:27 four that if you missed out you can be out of the

14:30 you're Texas last year.

14:31 Yeah.

14:31 I mean you can't do it.

14:32 You get to the point where you can't lose

14:33 anymore because of the way the committee bases things.

14:36 They're going to base it on to just losses.

14:38 They're not looking at the total body of work.

14:39 They're going to look at the loss column.

14:41 And when you get near that number, you have to win.

14:43 You better be peeking in or you're not going to have a chance to.

14:46 Where basketball, baseball, th those those those tournaments in the NCA

14:49 have played out differently than ours has.

14:51 Now, it's not what it was because when it was four, it was over for sure.

14:56 Like you mentioned, we've been a part of that where we

14:58 got bumped two or three times because of the SEC championship game.

15:01 But now it's like, well,

15:02 you really just need to save up and be hot when you need to be hot.

15:05 And uh I don't know, we've been a better team in our weekly rhythm

15:09 of having to play on the I say short

15:11 weeks on a regular week than we have

15:13 on the buildup for the last couple last couple times.

15:16 And I do think there's a totality of playing that SEC, you know,

15:20 eight game schedule and going on the road and playing

15:23 that you are you can become physically beat up.

15:26 I mean, we lost the center.

15:27 It was a really good player in the uh

15:31 actually in the Georgia Tech game leading up

15:33 to the SEC championship and that was after

15:35 a five six week SEC run that was really tough.

15:38 You were I'm going to get back to the playoff thing in a second.

15:40 You were talking about um the whole the whole concept of adding a ninth game.

15:45 I remember being at the SEC Championship game

15:47 last year knowing both teams are beat to death

15:51 and you're watching the game and it it does not feel like a game that's being

15:54 played at the speed the SEC championship game

15:57 is normally played at and afterwards you won it.

16:00 You stepped to the podium and you kind of said,

16:02 "Guys, this is the entire SEC next year.

16:05 Everyone's playing the ninth game next year." Now,

16:08 people outside the gate will look at that and say,

16:10 "He's baking in an excuse." people inside the gate

16:13 will say I I agree with anything Kirby Smart says.

16:16 I happen to think like there's a lot of reality to it because it's one thing if

16:20 you know you're going to be favored by double digits in 10 out of your 12 games,

16:23 you can afford to kind of ramp up, but if you take that approach maybe

16:28 against teams you're still probably better than, but the gap's a lot smaller,

16:32 you just end up a three loss team in November and you

16:35 know full well you could win that tournament if you get into it,

16:37 but the committee ranks 15th and you're out.

16:39 That's exactly the way it goes.

16:40 And and I I I will forever be an enthusiast

16:43 and people can criticize all they want about other conferences.

16:46 I welcome them.

16:47 If they thank you, let them come join.

16:49 Just come on in and join and water ours down a little bit

16:51 and give us some some games that maybe you can win with a breather.

16:54 But it doesn't happen in our league.

16:56 I mean, look at the the best people to ask.

16:58 I always say this is don't ask me.

17:00 Don't ask somebody in the Big 10.

17:01 Don't ask somebody in any other conference.

17:03 Just go to the NFL scouts.

17:04 Don't go to the NFL coaches.

17:05 A lot of the coaches have a bias.

17:07 A lot of the coaches only watch a player, but the scouts go watch the practices.

17:12 They go all across the country.

17:13 Go poll the national scouts for each NFL team and and you you tell

17:18 them where the best competition is and you ask them where the best competition,

17:21 not necessarily always the best team, but the best competition as a whole,

17:26 best players, and the wear and tear right now in our league.

17:29 And with us playing that extra SEC championship game,

17:32 that was like the ninth game.

17:33 I'm glad we're in that game.

17:34 I love playing that game.

17:35 But now that we're going to go to nine and then have an SEC championship,

17:39 I saw last year because even coming out of the Georgia Tech game,

17:42 we were beat up, banged up.

17:43 Alabama comes out of the Auburn game, beat up, banged up,

17:45 and the injury reports going to the game, I was like, "Oh my gosh,

17:48 this is a shell of itself." Well,

17:49 if we took our rosters from 2012 and 2015 and done those, we'd have been fine.

17:55 It's the combination of everybody's leaving.

17:58 Your sophomores are your freshman actually or your twos in a lot of places.

18:02 I mean, we started two freshman linemen.

18:04 I've never done that.

18:05 Was it because they were that much more talented or we were that less depth?

18:10 And when you take the depth away and look, we practice different now.

18:13 People are like, "Well,

18:13 you can't practice as hard." We don't practice as hard as we ever did now.

18:17 We cut back.

18:18 It's the volume games and the number of uh quality players we have is less.

18:23 And so those two end up with more injuries and you get probably a little less.

18:27 You know, we're not as good as we've been in years past,

18:29 but I don't think anybody else is either.

18:31 Yeah.

18:31 Here's the rough part to me is you've

18:34 never probably played more young players than you do,

18:36 more inexperienced players than you do.

18:38 We were just talking a second ago about peing at the right time.

18:40 To me, the hallmark of a lot of those teams

18:42 is they're continuing to get better during the season.

18:46 Well, if you're talking about shaving or maybe scaling back

18:49 what you do in practice now relative to what you used

18:52 to, it makes it a lot tougher to improve as much

18:55 as you would have over the course of a season.

18:57 And so, you add all that in with the schedule

18:59 you're playing and you make a lot of money.

19:01 So no one feels bad for you.

19:03 But I mean, is that is that not something that I'm looking at?

19:05 I'm saying, well, we'll just get better over the course of a season.

19:07 That's a lot harder said than done.

19:09 Yeah, a lot harder because you don't you don't

19:11 actually get the work that you used to get qualitywise.

19:13 You do a lot more walkthroughs, you scale back things,

19:16 but you're trying to get a younger

19:17 player that you're paying more money ready faster.

19:21 So, at the end of the day,

19:22 there's this dilemma among coaches of do I pay uh the bottom part of my roster,

19:27 let's call it the new guys, a lot of money,

19:29 and I got really good young players, but they they they can make mistakes,

19:33 or do you go with this old model,

19:34 which has been the three last national champions now.

19:36 They've almost been the oldest team in college football each year,

19:40 the Michigan, Ohio State, and and and Indian.

19:42 I'm not going to say they're the oldest, but they're close to it.

19:44 All right?

19:45 And you can take that model and say, I'm going to get older players.

19:48 I'm going to age and I'm going to beat

19:49 your younger players with my veterans who are stronger, probably more reliable,

19:53 maybe not as talented, but at the end of the day,

19:56 you're having to make a decision as a coach.

19:58 Are we paying the bottom part of our roster?

19:59 Are we trying to get somewhere in the middle?

20:01 I mean, some people have taken through, they're only going to pay 60 players

20:04 because in the in the college football playoff,

20:05 they did a bunch of studies and, you know, 54 to 55 guys played in each game.

20:09 Yeah.

20:10 And so if that's the case, let's just pay them a lot of money and and save

20:14 the rest to sprinkle in some money for the rest.

20:16 Almost like walkons and I'm going to have more quality play,

20:19 not more quality players,

20:20 I'm going have less quality players, but the quality I have is really good.

20:23 But you have no depth, you know, and when you lose somebody,

20:25 you can't go pick them up like you can in the NFL.

20:28 Do you find that you have a quote unquote portal philosophy,

20:31 a quote unquote revenue share philosophy, or do things change so quick

20:36 that the thing evolves like 30 or 40% year-over-year?

20:38 Yeah, I think it evolves quick.

20:40 I don't think we could say we have a true philosophy.

20:41 I mean, obviously what we need, we needed some wide outs a year ago when we went

20:45 and got Zack Branch and some of the guys we picked up.

20:48 That was a need, but every year it's different.

20:50 And it changes so fast cuz it's changing so fast in the in the money department,

20:54 you know, the revenue share department.

20:56 How you chop up your rev share,

20:57 how you get outside money, how other people get outside money.

21:01 Um, a lot of schools have just taken the approach,

21:03 I'm going to go pay whatever I got to pay for a great player.

21:05 There's only so many five stars, right?

21:07 and whether they're fivestar or not is debatable,

21:09 but there's only so many of them and they're right most of the time.

21:12 So, if you go buy enough of those and then

21:14 weed out the ones that don't work out,

21:16 meaning by year two or three, I get them off the books,

21:18 they're gone somewhere else, they're not playing,

21:20 they're pissed off, they're disgruntled,

21:22 that's the model that gets you the best player at the end of the day,

21:25 where we've been a much more developmental.

21:27 we've been a much more, hey,

21:28 we think this guy's a really good player and we feel comfortable paying him,

21:33 but we don't have to pay him the most money and then

21:36 he's just going to get better by being in our program.

21:38 And that's that's a developmental route versus a purchase route,

21:41 but it changes fast.

21:42 Like you mentioned, you've also got,

21:44 and I don't know to what degree this is true,

21:46 but I've always viewed you and maybe a few others out there as having

21:51 a little bit of a hometown discount baked in because you've proven yourself.

21:55 And guys know even if I take a little bit less to stay here,

21:58 the exchange rate is what I'm getting while I'm here.

22:00 Ohio State could pitch that.

22:02 Like a few places could pitch that.

22:03 How true is that?

22:04 How true is it where you said you said

22:06 a number and say I'm not going beyond this.

22:07 I know you could get twice this somewhere else.

22:10 Make your decision.

22:11 And the decision is Georgia.

22:14 I would like to believe that.

22:15 And I hear people say that and it used to like our coaches

22:18 after the first two national championships and NI was just in its infancy.

22:22 I would say there was this hometown discount or this, you know,

22:26 UG uh I'm going to get um NFL status discount.

22:30 I don't I think people take offense to that when

22:33 you're talking to the to the agent or the recruiting world.

22:36 They they they they want a value for their son.

22:39 They want a value for their representative.

22:41 The agent represents the player and they're not looking for that.

22:44 Well, we we spend money.

22:46 People people come all the time and say we're

22:48 probably fourth or fifth in the SEC in spending money.

22:52 We just want to find like we want

22:54 to find the best value along with the best kid.

22:57 And sometimes in our state,

22:58 there's a player that's X and this player over here is demanding X.

23:02 And the players aren't that far apart,

23:04 but they're that far apart in money that we choose to say,

23:07 you know what, he knows who he is.

23:09 He knows what he wants and he's going to develop well.

23:11 And we think he's an undervalued player

23:13 because he's been on our campus four times.

23:15 He's from Atlanta, Georgia, and we're going to bring him over here.

23:17 And I'm not going to go out and pay some crazy

23:19 premium on a risk because at the end of the day,

23:22 every player we bring in here is a risk.

23:25 Okay?

23:25 It's an investment.

23:26 We're putting a lot of money, a lot of universities money into these kids.

23:29 I want a more solid investment.

23:31 And it's hard to say the difference in these kids is 200,000, 400,000.

23:36 But if you ask mom, dad, an agent, it's how do you value my son?

23:40 It's not about value for me for your son.

23:42 It's about we're going to pour into them.

23:45 We're going to put so much into them.

23:46 So much effort, energy, toughness, practice,

23:48 development, all the things they want.

23:50 Off the- field education, for life education,

23:52 like that's what I want you to see you're getting a value on.

23:55 And I don't want you to have to take a discount.

23:56 Okay?

23:57 A discount might be a little less than year one or two.

24:00 We have tra we have traditionally paid our players junior

24:04 and senior year as much as anybody at those positions.

24:07 We don't on the start because I want you to earn it and work your way up.

24:10 And you know that that's been a people hear that all the time in recruiting.

24:13 They want to use it as a negative to us.

24:15 And I just let it go.

24:16 I say, "Look, we're going to find the right people.

24:17 We only need to find 25.

24:19 We only need to find 22.

24:21 And there's thousands of them good enough out

24:22 there." Like the difference in the top thousand players,

24:25 I just need to find 22 that want to be here.

24:28 I was just in here thinking, you've been here like 11 years now.

24:30 If I were to frame the last two and a half minutes of your answer

24:33 and put it on a screen and play it for you in 2016,

24:36 this is how you're going to be talking in 10 years.

24:39 Just imagine the last answer you gave.

24:41 You're talking about a full payroll scale.

24:43 Payroll scale.

24:43 Yeah.

24:43 And just openly talking about it.

24:45 It's crazy.

24:45 It is crazy.

24:46 And it to think where it's going is is is scary for me.

24:49 I I just I want I want these kids to to I mean, they work hard.

24:54 They they earn a lot of money for the university.

24:56 They get great TV deals.

24:57 I want them to have the opportunities they want to have.

24:59 I want them to be compensated for it.

25:01 I just want to protect their mental health and protect

25:03 their ability to graduate and protect like their investment strategies.

25:08 And if we put more checks and balances in for that, I'm great with it.

25:12 I have no problem with what these kids make and what they do.

25:15 I just want them to make good decisions with it.

25:17 And we don't have control over that.

25:19 I'm going to switch gears a little bit.

25:21 You don't say this much, but I've heard you say a few times over the years,

25:25 usually in a loss, you'll step to a podium post,

25:28 you'll say, "Look, we got out coached today." Normally,

25:31 a fan or someone in media just says that when you lost.

25:35 They don't ever we don't have to back it up.

25:36 They just say it.

25:37 When you say so and so out coached us today,

25:41 what specifically other than the final score are

25:43 you seeing that indicates they out coached us today?

25:46 Well, use of their personnel, how they did things defensively.

25:49 I mean um I'm thinking about last year, you know,

25:52 we we we we lost to Alabama uh you know,

25:55 at home and uh they they they played better than us.

25:58 They just played better than us.

26:00 Um they had a good plan.

26:01 Um, they really executed well on third down,

26:04 meaning we brought pressure at times, didn't get home in time,

26:07 the quarterback executed at a high level, made some big time throws.

26:10 Um, and you know, if you turn the ball over,

26:13 I don't think that you got out, coach.

26:16 That's just not true.

26:16 I mean, if you you do certain things

26:18 that you don't do in your characteristic of your team,

26:21 that's just a circumstance.

26:22 They they beat us.

26:23 Sometimes you physically get beat, but sometimes I do think you get out coached.

26:27 And I don't think that all our losses at Georgia since I've been here,

26:29 we've been out coached.

26:30 I I don't think that at all.

26:31 But I do think that's happened some people do a good job.

26:34 They they have answers for what you do.

26:36 Um they respond to something you do well

26:38 and maybe you don't have an answer for that.

26:40 It's just chess and somebody's one step ahead of you and you

26:43 feel like you're always right just behind in what you do.

26:46 How would you describe the playoff game against Old Miss?

26:49 Is it the former or the l?

26:51 How' you feel when you were leaving that venue

26:53 about the job your staff did getting ready for that?

26:56 Good and bad.

26:57 I mean, they look there were there were two

26:59 or three calls we made defensively that were the perfect call.

27:02 When you bring a a corner cat and they don't pick it up

27:04 and the quarterback runs 20 yards back

27:06 and runs around and then then finds a completion, that's not out coached.

27:11 That's either out recruited um or just outplayed um by the kids.

27:16 They they made tremendous play.

27:18 They they played with tremendous passion in the second half, tremendous belief.

27:22 Um, so, you know, that's not that's one play that there's two plays there

27:26 in a row that kind of defined

27:27 our our game where their quarterback made elite plays.

27:30 I mean, he just played unbelievable.

27:32 Um, but, you know, there's things we did well offensively.

27:34 You scored on defense.

27:36 When you score on defense, scoop and score, you're not supposed to lose games.

27:38 You know, you fake a punt and you're not supposed to lose games.

27:41 Um, but they did a great job.

27:43 I, you know, I think Pete and his staff did a tremendous job in that game.

27:46 I wouldn't say it was necessarily out coaching.

27:48 I would say that they definitely outplayed us when it mattered most.

27:51 They won critical moments.

27:52 The red area in that game was critical.

27:55 What is it like when you're watching a guy

27:56 like Trinidad Chamblas who I don't even know

27:59 that he's on your radar when the season

28:00 starts and you may end up playing that team.

28:03 You know Austin Simmons, you know who their starter is.

28:06 I mean, as far as you know, as far as I knew,

28:08 most people were paying attention to the fact

28:09 that Lane went and got a kid from from D2.

28:11 Yeah.

28:12 to maybe be a depth provider and then he's pressed

28:15 into action and then you watch what he does and I

28:17 I thought he was the most dangerous player in the entire

28:20 tournament by the time the tournament started last year.

28:23 What is that like to watch and then what does it say

28:25 in your mind about I wonder if any of those are out there right now.

28:29 I wonder if there's some more of them out there.

28:30 Everybody in the country is trying to find one of those.

28:32 I mean, it was a great job by them and their staff.

28:35 I don't know who to give the credit to cuz I'm not really involved in it,

28:38 but to say I even knew who he was at the start of the season, hell no.

28:41 I didn't know who he was at the start of the season.

28:42 How would he was the backup quarterback Austin Simmons had come in against

28:45 us the previous year and had an unbelievable drive down the field.

28:48 All we were talking about was him, you know,

28:50 and then when when we were getting ready to play them,

28:52 we still were watching tape on them the first game where also was playing.

28:56 He played in the Kentucky game and and he got injured.

28:59 And uh you know, sometimes as coaches,

29:01 you learn a lot that it's very similar for us with Stson

29:03 Bennett because we did everything we could to not start Stson Bennett.

29:06 He was on the bench for a lot of games and he

29:08 was probably the best quarterback when he was on the bench.

29:11 And had things not happened like they did, maybe we don't ever start him.

29:15 Maybe when Carson Beck was getting ready to start

29:17 before Stson Bennett and then he got a little injured,

29:19 Stson got to go out there and play and he took off and went.

29:22 That's really the story what Trinidad

29:24 did and everybody's looking for that story.

29:26 Yeah.

29:26 But it's funny because I go to our guys all

29:28 the time like can we not find a guy that's like athletic,

29:31 got another year left and you know bring him in here to compete and you know pay

29:34 him some money and it's like everybody's looking

29:36 for I mean everybody's looking for that that magic story.

29:40 You uh so you you've talked a whole

29:41 lot about future of the playoff size recently.

29:44 I always hate anytime someone talks 2014 playoff.

29:47 However, if I were probably an SEC head coach, I'd probably advocate for it.

29:51 So like I get the stance.

29:53 What do I have to do to talk you off of that?

29:55 basically is what I want to know.

29:57 What's your what's your I'm not I'm not pro 16 or 24.

30:00 I'm I'm pro more than 12, but what what is your stance against the 24?

30:05 Well, watering it down.

30:06 It is season it basically.

30:08 Last year we had multiple teams.

30:10 Miami is an example.

30:12 I watch them lose against Louis or Louisville.

30:15 Yeah.

30:15 Watch them lose against SMU.

30:18 I'm okay with a tournament that's just big enough where

30:21 that can be allowed and you still got a shot.

30:23 Anything more And I'm watching early season

30:26 games and they're they're more television products

30:29 than they are something that I have to be tuned into, something with urgency,

30:33 something that puckers you a little bit in the fourth quarter.

30:36 I I think expanding frankly beyond 12, but especially way past 16 does that.

30:41 Now, the I know the counterpoint to that.

30:44 The counterpoint is well, I mean, if if the currency is playoff access

30:47 now and we're trying to sell playoff access,

30:49 then the bigger the playoff the better.

30:51 The more fan bases are invested.

30:53 I know we're a little ways down that road.

30:55 I don't think we're so far down that road is my is my whole point

30:58 that you have to just forever expand the thing

31:01 because essentially you are ignoring value and scarcity.

31:04 I still think there's some value and some scarcity.

31:07 I agree with all those.

31:08 I just don't know where that line

31:09 of demarcation is cuz you're saying okay we got

31:11 four now we're 12 and now you're saying okay is it 16 24 is too many?

31:17 I don't know where the line is drawn on that because for Miami who

31:23 legitimately now I won't say should have

31:25 won but could have won the national championship.

31:27 They could have won it.

31:28 They had two losses to teams that are really competitive.

31:31 I mean they're competitive to them in their conference

31:33 but maybe they're better than they shouldn't lose those games.

31:35 They had two games they shouldn't lose.

31:36 And I feel like for 10 years I've been

31:38 here if you lost two games you shouldn't lose.

31:41 You're gone.

31:41 You're out.

31:42 But they were good enough to win it.

31:44 Why does that not stand for basketball and baseball?

31:46 because they lose games they shouldn't lose all the time.

31:49 It's a different sport.

31:50 They play way more often.

31:51 Their games are less meaningful than our games.

31:56 And I don't think that we're I do think that we're

31:58 going to make our or some of our games maybe less meaningful,

32:01 less impactful, but they will still matter in the grand scheme of things,

32:05 especially towards the end of the season.

32:07 Um, so I I'm a I'm a I'm a fan of 16 to 24 because of what you said,

32:12 the currency and what we're measured by as coaches.

32:14 I want to get my team in there.

32:15 embarrassing opportunity.

32:16 I want my fan base to be engaged.

32:18 And it's gotten to the point now that if you're not in there,

32:20 there's no value in a good old bowl game.

32:22 Let's go play over in this bowl game and let's

32:24 send out the seniors and let's give them a, you know,

32:26 whatever the name of the bowl is and nobody cares about that anymore.

32:29 We've made it that way.

32:31 So, if we're going to make it that way,

32:32 we might as well put more in it and get everybody in and let them go play.

32:35 And then, you know, does anybody even play a game outside the playoffs?

32:39 Because the kids are disinterested past the playoffs.

32:42 the fans are disinterested past the playoffs.

32:45 Now, the value for you is you got a lot more meaningful games during

32:48 the year when that thing's 12 or 16

32:51 because somebody's getting bumped at the end.

32:53 Yeah.

32:53 I just always looked at it like some

32:55 people's philosophy is we should have the bubble

32:57 big enough where any team that's capable of winning it if they get in is in.

33:03 I've always looked at it and said, I don't really view it that way.

33:06 If you're good enough to win it and you earned your way in the bubble,

33:09 then I'm fine with it.

33:10 Otherwise, you're just reinforcing my point that man,

33:13 they lost some regular season games they shouldn't have lost.

33:15 That's why there was maximum urgency on that.

33:17 But see, the difference with me is I I

33:19 don't view the playoff as the nucleus of the sport.

33:21 I'm a regular season guy and whatever the playoff

33:23 is is more the cherry on top for me.

33:26 But I I I agree with that.

33:27 And I think in our model, our program, I mean,

33:30 I don't want to say this cuz you say this and it'll come back to haunt you,

33:33 but we we've had a model of consistency.

33:36 Okay, we we lose games,

33:38 but we haven't lost a lot of games we're not supposed to.

33:41 And so, if you're that kind of program, you want that thing nice and tight.

33:45 You don't want these outsiders getting in that could get hot.

33:47 I've always told people like some of these teams,

33:49 they can play with anybody on any given Saturday,

33:51 but they might not get up for every Saturday.

33:54 And that that to me is like that that that airs

33:58 on the side of well you wanted to be 12.

34:00 You wanted to be less than 12,

34:01 you wanted to be four because you're not letting somebody in that could

34:04 go in there and just win the thing and take off and get hot.

34:06 But I I am a fan of of of a little more access.

34:11 You just wrapped up spring a few weeks ago.

34:13 I look from the outside.

34:14 I say, man, I think tight end's like the deepest position on that team.

34:17 So I'm not going to really ask you about tight end,

34:19 but outside of tight end, I know there were a couple of injuries, guys out.

34:23 Feels like most of them may be back by summer or fall camp.

34:27 What was your feeling coming out of spring ball?

34:29 Very pleased.

34:29 Uh was happy to get the the the amount of work we got.

34:33 We did some things different this spring than we've ever done in our practices.

34:36 We uh we tried some different drills competitively to try to grow our depth.

34:41 We gave more reps to our threes,

34:43 which you know, people like, I don't have threes.

34:45 Well, our threes are like freshman um sophomores.

34:49 uh some freshman moved up during that process,

34:51 but like we dedicated more time to them and if

34:55 you were a two-year starter or had played over,

34:58 you know, 3 400 snaps in games, SEC games,

35:01 then we we we had a little lighter load on those guys.

35:03 And uh I was very pleased with the work we got.

35:06 There are some positions that I wish we could go out and say,

35:09 "Oh man, I wish I get a veteran here,

35:10 a better leader in the room here." But we have uh we have good

35:14 players and I think it's all relative to who we're going to play, right?

35:17 But I feel good coming out of the spring about the injuries and things.

35:20 Well, what's wild is if I'm sitting in Georgia, if I'm you,

35:23 I've got 2021 me to compare my modern-day self against.

35:27 So, you you're probably coming out of spring.

35:28 I know cuz I've talked to you the past few springs and you're like,

35:31 we got deficiencies here, here, here.

35:33 And then you end up winning the SEC and you're like,

35:35 I guess we didn't really have to compete against ourselves 5 years ago.

35:38 We just had to play the teams we line up against.

35:40 That's the key.

35:40 You got to play the teams you line up

35:41 against and you got to be able to beat them.

35:43 And you get you get worried that, oh man, well, they beat us on this kid.

35:46 that beat us on that kid and you're going

35:47 to play somebody that beat you on these kids.

35:49 At the end of the day, concern yourself with what you have, not what you don't.

35:53 And we try to really focus hard like we're going

35:56 to develop our players better than they develop their players.

36:00 We're going to be tougher with our players than their players.

36:03 And in the fourth quarter, when you have to stop the run to win the game

36:07 or you have to run the ball to win the game, that's how we're going to beat you.

36:11 And we've been good at doing that, but in really tight margins lately.

36:15 All right, last question here.

36:16 Uh, we got like 3 months, I guess, or so until the season starts.

36:20 How many days will you spend completely detached from this place?

36:25 And when you're when you're somewhere, maybe you spend 5 minutes on a beach,

36:28 are you a throw the cell phone in the water kind

36:31 of guy or are you checking it every 5 minutes kind of guy?

36:33 Oh yeah, I'm on my phone.

36:35 I have my phone all the time.

36:36 I won't say I'm on it all the time, but I'm accessed to my phone.

36:38 There's never a time.

36:39 And I'll step away.

36:40 We'll have three weeks uh in July where I'll get reports of like,

36:45 okay, this is what's going on.

36:46 You know, coaches will be in the office, but I'm not physically here.

36:50 I'm not mentally like checked out a little bit other than I'm recruiting.

36:54 Got to be on my phone, right?

36:56 Updates of what's going on with our players and how

36:58 they're doing conditioning wise and what's going on with those guys.

37:00 That's important to me.

37:01 But outside of that, get some time with the family,

37:04 enjoy time, but I'm never without a phone.

37:07 And I'm not throwing that phone away just because of uh

37:09 how fast things happen and how much information gets digested quickly.

37:13 Are you a believer that the more sunburn the coach is at media days,

37:17 the better the season's going to be.

37:19 I don't know if I could say that cuz uh I don't I don't enjoy being sunburnt.

37:23 So uh there probably some of those guys that get it from golf

37:25 or on the beach and uh sometimes they fake and they get the fake spray.

37:29 We got a few of those guys in our league, too.

37:31 You probably know who they are.

37:32 Um but I I don't uh I don't care for that.

37:35 I think it's measured on um how good your players are

37:38 and less about how much time you spend in the sun.

37:40 Got to be smart.

37:40 We appreciate it.

37:41 Thank you, Josh.

37:41 Thank you.

37:41 Appreciate it.