Tested: Steam Controller Review + Valve Interview!

0:00 Hey everybody, it's Norm from Tested, and today we're going to be reviewing

0:02 and diving deep into Valve's Steam Controller,

0:05 not to confuse with the Steam Controller they released 10 years ago now.

0:10 And now we have more details.

0:11 We've been testing this for the past 2 weeks, and we now know it's $99 $100 US,

0:17 and it will be available this coming Monday, May 4th at 10:00 a.m.

0:21 Pacific.

0:22 Your time zones and the pricing may vary

0:23 based on the region you live in, of course,

0:25 and that can all be bought via Steam.

0:27 So, it comes in this box.

0:28 What comes in the box is a 5-ft long USB-A to C charging and syncing cable.

0:33 This gets connected to a charging dongle.

0:37 Charging dongle, dongle, we'll call it a charging puck.

0:40 Charging puck magnetically connects to the back of the Steam Controller.

0:43 This theoretically sits on the table and allows you to pair up to four

0:47 Steam Controllers to one charging puck over

0:49 a dedicated to low-latency 2.4 GHz wireless connection.

0:55 Uh that then all fits in this very descript brown box,

1:00 but thankfully this gets shipped in a far more non-descript brown enclosing box,

1:05 so your delivery person hopefully won't steal it from you.

1:08 That's not a Norm promise or guarantee or anything.

1:11 In terms of buttons and controls,

1:13 if you have a Steam Deck, it's almost exactly the same.

1:16 You'll be very, very familiar with all

1:18 the ABXY and all the buttons and thumbsticks, but there are some differences.

1:22 So, the thumbsticks now are TMR tunnel magnetic resonance thumbsticks.

1:28 These are an evolution over the Hall effect thumbsticks we

1:30 find in high-end gamepads these days and are far more durable,

1:35 reliable, and low power consuming than the potentiometer-based

1:38 thumbsticks we found in even the original Steam Decks.

1:42 Uh in addition to that, you have these analog trigger buttons,

1:45 and if you were fan of the original Steam Controller,

1:48 unfortunately, this had a two-stage trigger,

1:52 and this only has a single action analog trigger.

1:56 So, that is a little bit of a regression.

1:58 On the back though, there are four buttons.

2:00 We'll call these two grip buttons and on the bottom, these are paddles.

2:04 Uh before buttons for all sorts of customization

2:07 and everything of course can be customized via Steam input.

2:10 What's new and different though with the Steam Controller is that there are

2:15 touch sensors underneath the thumb sticks

2:17 as well as touch sensors on either side.

2:19 Valve calls this grip sense.

2:21 The system knows whether you're gripping the left, the right,

2:23 or both sides which can then be used

2:25 to activate a high-fidelity gyroscope for gyroscopic aiming.

2:29 Much more practical to do that here than with a giant Steam Deck.

2:34 There are of course the two touchpads on the bottom.

2:37 By default, this activates a scroll wheel

2:40 and this on the right activates a mouse cursor.

2:42 But again, this can all be customized so it can be a radio dial.

2:45 It can be all sorts of different ways to play

2:47 PC games on a big screen or on a console-like environment.

2:52 It connects over that 2.4 GHz wireless connection,

2:55 but it also can connect to accessories and systems via a Bluetooth connection.

2:59 So, we did test this with VR headsets

3:01 like the Apple Vision Pro running Steam Link,

3:04 but it cannot connect to game consoles, Xbox, PlayStation, Switch.

3:07 Unfortunately, this is made for Steam and PC gaming.

3:11 But before we get into our impressions and our subjective experience

3:15 using the Steam Controller cuz that word no longer has any meaning.

3:18 I've said it so many times now.

3:19 Let's jump to a conversation I had with Valve designers

3:21 and engineers about the making of this gamepad and uh

3:25 in which they included some insights we did not

3:27 know about that may be new to you as well.

3:29 Let's take a listen.

3:30 Steven Lawrence, thank you so much uh for your time here uh for making time.

3:34 Uh the first thing that jumped out to me was, you know, the the pricing.

3:36 It's a $100 controller, $99 controller.

3:40 Um is this something that you guys when going into it kind of knew that was,

3:44 you know, a premium controller was the kind of the thesis for this?

3:48 Like how did how did you talk me through, you know,

3:51 the the choice between choosing what's put

3:54 in this controller and also matching the pricing.

3:56 Yeah, so I mean, primarily when when deciding for this controller,

4:00 it was about how much value we can provide in this controller in terms

4:05 of advanced inputs and just like a generic

4:08 full-featured gamepad when deciding the price point.

4:11 And you know, our perspective is more about how much

4:14 value can we provide in a in a competitive price.

4:18 Um and and we think with the price that we

4:20 landed that if you if you value those advanced inputs,

4:23 it is a competitive price point when you compare it to what's out there,

4:26 but you know, if it's not something that you necessarily value,

4:29 then you know, maybe it's not the the controller for you in that case.

4:32 I mean, it's always a balance, right?

4:33 So like not only are there the advanced inputs,

4:35 but we felt it was really important

4:36 that people had an easy plug-and-play unboxing experience,

4:40 that the wireless connection would always be rock solid,

4:43 and because of that we made the puck, which is, you know, an additional piece

4:46 of a controller that not everyone always provides.

4:48 So we think that there's a lot of you know,

4:51 a lot of extra functionality and just really

4:54 good quality of life features to the point where

4:57 we think that the price is is accurate

4:59 for what what we're providing in terms of value.

5:02 Do you guys consider internally is this kind of like a loss leader?

5:05 Is this, you know, is there's there's all

5:07 this hardware you can put in, but you know,

5:09 you're primarily getting people to install Steam and buy games via Steam.

5:13 Yeah, I mean, we don't we don't really look at hardware as as loss leaders.

5:16 Like even with with Steam Deck or or other things

5:18 like we don't we don't look at our products that way.

5:20 We want them to be able to stand on their own.

5:23 So we do think that Steam Controller

5:25 is a a really competitively priced accessory

5:29 for your for your Windows PC or your Steam Deck or the upcoming products.

5:33 Um like you said, it is a Steam focused controller.

5:36 It is a Steam controller.

5:37 So you're going to have your best

5:38 experience if it is running games through Steam.

5:42 Steam is basically a driver for all

5:43 the advanced functionalities of the controller,

5:46 which is why it's required for the most part.

5:48 You know, in addition to this, the number

5:50 of inputs and and buttons and you know, the touchpads you've put in here,

5:53 the quality of materials seems to be at least even

5:56 a step up from what you guys put in the Steam Deck.

5:58 You guys have the TMR thumb sticks now.

6:01 Can you talk to me?

6:01 I I understand the difference between, you know,

6:04 Hall effect and potentiometer based thumb sticks

6:08 and not having drift, but you know,

6:09 why go with TMR versus Hall effect,

6:11 which theoretically also has long longevity

6:14 and presumably a little bit cheaper, too.

6:16 In terms of any kind of magnetic sensing thumb stick and resistive, you know,

6:22 I think generally gamers are more and more aware now

6:24 that the reason that they are more resistant to drift

6:27 is because there's magnets in in the sensing interaction between

6:31 like the actual component and the the stick itself versus wipers.

6:36 And the wipers can wear out over time is what the old school thumb sticks did.

6:40 And and that wear out causes drift that people experience.

6:44 With the magnets, you don't have as many contacting surfaces, so in general,

6:48 the thumb stick lands closer to center than um

6:52 than other sticks do over the course of its life.

6:54 So, you get that performance benefit just from using magnets.

6:57 In terms of Hall effect versus TMR,

7:00 um TMR has all the same benefits as Hall effect.

7:02 It is still magnetic sensing.

7:04 However, it's lower power.

7:05 So, we're able to, you know,

7:07 not impact battery life negatively by adding this new sensor to our controller.

7:12 Do you see just in the supply chain

7:15 and in manufacturing that that's something that is

7:18 going to the industry is trending toward or it just makes sense to invest in now

7:22 because maybe in the future the cost will go down or replacement parts will be

7:26 or is it always going to be

7:27 that extra tier of extra complexity and in manufacturing?

7:32 I mean, yeah, I think a lot of the big players

7:36 were kind of waiting for the technology to mature and to prove

7:40 out the reliability over time and that it really is uh

7:44 a actual material performance improvement and not just a perceived one.

7:49 And I think if Valve were convinced and I think Yeah.

7:51 most likely I think the industry will generally follow from

7:54 We're starting to see more more folks have it.

7:56 Like I believe the Lenovo Legion Go S Yeah.

7:58 um started edit edit either TMR.

8:01 Yeah.

8:01 Um so when we start to see the industry moving this direction uh

8:05 and with corroborated by our own testing like our own mechanical testing Yeah.

8:09 and then also we work with the manufacturer to make sure that they're making it

8:13 to our spec uh then we feel much

8:15 more comfortable shipping it in our own products.

8:17 Yeah.

8:18 And we've been looking at this tech for a while too.

8:20 Like this is you know just the first

8:21 time we've been comfortable with implementing it ourselves.

8:23 Did choosing this tech and this manufacturer that have

8:26 any effect on the design of the gamepad

8:29 and the placement and you know even going

8:31 from uh locking into a symmetrical you know

8:34 thumbstick design versus asymmetrical you know how

8:37 how much do the choosing of these parts

8:39 and the inputs affect the actual decisions for you

8:42 know how big this is and and the placement?

8:44 Um not a lot believe it or not like at least in our experience vendors that are

8:47 making these are are trying really hard to make

8:49 them almost a plug and play with existing resistive

8:52 technology so that vendors can just kind of swap them in and out and you can see

8:55 that just based on people who are selling replacement

8:57 modules and you could do it yourself at home.

9:00 So there really isn't really a ton of like size impact or like layout impact.

9:05 The one thing that um we did have

9:06 to consider is like it's magnetic sensing thumbsticks we

9:09 have other magnets in the products and we have

9:11 this puck which has really strong magnets in it.

9:13 Uh and that's something that we have to make sure that we consider

9:16 when designing um so that we don't have any negative experiences around that.

9:20 Um it didn't really have an impact on most of the system but the actual

9:23 uh puck itself actually did show some interference

9:26 and we we put something in the firmware

9:29 uh and tested it extensively so that when the puck is on the controller there's

9:31 a little handshake and we offset the thumbstick

9:33 values just to compensate for the field impact.

9:36 Um and seems like one of the reasons

9:38 for this design is to really have that, you know, Steam Deck parity, right?

9:41 Like the people are comfortable and used to Steam Deck.

9:44 You know, you you can I've been using it as the, you know,

9:47 the game pad for the Steam Deck and obviously when as you guys are

9:50 going to be releasing Steam Machine

9:51 and and Steam Frame to to have that familiarity,

9:54 you know, um how do you think about

9:57 and did you experiment with different more advanced features,

10:01 you know, more resistance and or customization even in things like triggers?

10:06 Um, it's slightly different than Steam Deck.

10:08 So, how do you think about, you know,

10:09 the goals of parity versus the goals of maybe looking forward?

10:13 Yeah, so the in actuality parity was one

10:16 of the main driving goals for this controller.

10:18 One of the main reasons we started working

10:20 on this There's a there's a number of reasons,

10:21 but one of the reasons was um, we noticed that the Steam Deck uh one,

10:27 we had a decent attach rate with our own dock and then we

10:29 know there's third-party docks and people dock their Steam Deck and then they go

10:32 sit on their couch and they're

10:33 using a different controller with different inputs

10:35 and it it's just kind of a jarring experience especially for us too who,

10:38 you know, at Valve who who play the same way.

10:41 Um, and so we knew we wanted to fill that gap.

10:43 And to fill that gap, you have to kind of stay focused on parity and to make

10:48 it feel comfortable and familiar when you go back and forth.

10:50 Otherwise, you know, it's just not a great experience.

10:53 So, we had that to keep us um from going too crazy.

10:56 Obviously, like anything that you can imagine our own

10:59 controllers out there we we have probably at least discussed.

11:02 But we had that driving principle to help keep us on track

11:05 on on how we wanted to lay out this controller and what features to improve.

11:08 On top of that, you know,

11:10 coming back to the price conversation, um the more we add,

11:14 the more you know, parts that go in, components,

11:17 sensors that go in and that drives up the price even more.

11:19 So, we really wanted to focus on providing uh different input modalities

11:25 prioritizing over um like input modulation call it, I guess, you know.

11:31 Um, so that was one of the you know,

11:33 one of our other focuses is is giving people more ways to play.

11:35 It's just like a nice outcome of that though is

11:37 that because we have these millions of Steam Decks out

11:39 there and people are creating community configs for them

11:42 with that input parity now with Steam Controller on day one,

11:45 you have thousands of controller configurations for thousands

11:48 of games out there that are made for these inputs and and we think that's just

11:52 a really nice thing to have on day one.

11:53 We're not starting from zero.

11:55 Yeah.

11:55 Um, and then one other thing is that while we um,

11:59 while we did stay within the input parity,

12:01 we did take the opportunity to improve as much

12:03 as we could of those inputs while we're working on it.

12:07 Oh yeah, the other thing obviously grip sense is something that's new.

12:10 Um, that wasn't in the Steam Deck.

12:12 Uh, so it's worth mentioning that was like the one

12:14 thing that made it in that we were like, okay, this is justifiable.

12:17 We understand why we would add this and you know,

12:20 similar to how the first controller set out

12:22 to prove that trackpads are a way to play

12:24 mouse and keyboard games and you can get

12:26 good experience and get really competitive with that.

12:29 Gyro has this incredibly passionate community that's been doing

12:31 that right now and and it's like in a lot

12:34 of ways it's more intuitive to play with a gyro

12:36 cuz you're kind of like pointing and clicking.

12:39 So obviously not works like that.

12:40 It's a lot more complicated.

12:41 Um, but to support that community we wanted to get that other

12:44 feature in there to help them with um, with their gaming.

12:48 Yeah, it's way you can way more twitchy.

12:49 The acceleration curves are, you know, you have to be really tuned to that.

12:53 Do you Are you guys sharing the polling rate

12:54 for the gyro and and how sensitive that is?

12:57 Well, our polling rate for the puck

12:58 to communicate to the actual PC is 250 hertz.

13:01 That's 4 milliseconds.

13:04 There is some like internal differences like the sensors

13:07 collect data at different rates than we report.

13:09 We just typically right now are reporting

13:11 that between like in-game action or sorry,

13:14 like a button press in-game action is 8 milliseconds of of latency and that's

13:19 what we feel like most people will help most people make a purchasing decision.

13:23 Um, I can We actually were just discussing this like

13:26 what are the differences in all the internal sensor polling rates?

13:29 And generally for now it's like it's reporting it for.

13:31 Right.

13:32 But it might be doing some processing or or aggregating

13:34 of data and abstracting and creating more accurate feedback.

13:37 Internal calculations before reporting out the data.

13:39 Yeah, just kind of like VR headsets, you know,

13:40 and then I'm sure that the IMUs or and gyros are calculating that.

13:44 Um, you know, going going back to parity,

13:46 you know, as you're launching this kind of, you know,

13:48 couple years after Steam Deck now and even Steam Deck OLED,

13:50 and you guys have talked about developing Steam Deck 2.

13:53 So, that parity thing go forward and people who

13:55 buy Steam Controller now can expect that it's going

13:58 to be fully compatible with the features that you're thinking

14:01 of or planning and also kind of reverse as well.

14:04 All the advancements and refinements that you put in Steam Controller,

14:06 that's a thing that you're also thinking of paying forward?

14:10 Yeah, I mean, while we're we're not

14:11 talking about future hardware much right now,

14:13 but like you could imagine that we would continue to carry things forward,

14:16 like, for instance, TMR thumb sticks are things that we're pretty happy with.

14:20 Like, we put them into the Steam Frame Controller,

14:22 so I could see us using them in the future as well.

14:24 I want to switch over to a little bit

14:25 about one of the surprises with Steam Controller when

14:28 I chatted with you guys last was that it

14:30 also is going to be recognizable by Steam Frame, right?

14:33 It's going to be not just you don't you

14:34 don't just have three degrees of freedom with the gyro,

14:37 you can actually have six degrees of freedom.

14:39 Is that my understanding that it's just one

14:40 IR light on top that allows for that?

14:43 Or is that a whole an array of of lights?

14:46 Right now, yeah, there's one IR LED in the light pipe

14:48 that it shares the same light pipe as the status LED.

14:51 Mhm.

14:52 Yeah.

14:53 Yeah.

14:54 I think we'll we'll have more information

14:55 soon about the controller and frame integration.

14:58 Yeah.

14:59 Is that something that feature that third parties can adopt or, you know,

15:02 is is third party controller support will

15:05 be in these devices and machine in frame?

15:08 Uh, I don't actually know the answer to that question.

15:10 don't know.

15:11 This is a good question for the Frame team.

15:12 Yeah, yeah.

15:13 We'll talk to the Frame team and get back to you.

15:15 Um, all right.

15:16 And you know, having more I'm in the scenario same scenario you guys

15:19 were I have the Steam Deck docked and use it on, you know,

15:22 a a big TV and, you know, until the Steam Machine comes, of course.

15:26 Um and right now, I you guys sent us

15:29 some Steam Controllers to use, but I want more.

15:31 Like, what's the limit of how many uh pucks and Steam Controllers,

15:35 at least over that 2.4 GHz connection,

15:37 that you can connect to a Deck and and Machine?

15:40 That's a good question.

15:41 Uh so, each puck can connect to up to four Steam Controllers at a time.

15:46 Um and actually that 250 Hz um it it's solid for all four of those.

15:50 So, that's part of part of a lot of the work that we did around

15:53 wireless is to not only make sure that it was good and solid and stable,

15:57 but also that it wouldn't be uh it

15:59 wouldn't deteriorate as more devices connect to it.

16:02 Um and then yeah, it depends on how many USB ports you have.

16:06 I think we've successfully done up to three or four pucks.

16:10 Yeah.

16:10 We hooked up We hooked up 16 controllers over

16:13 four pucks to what we did internal company testing.

16:18 Um yeah, but at this point, like, four pucks with one controller will be uh

16:24 very consistent experience to or as one puck.

16:28 Oh, yeah.

16:29 Four controllers with one puck will be

16:31 the same experience as one controller with one puck.

16:33 So, you don't get any kind of additional input

16:35 latency as you add more controllers to a puck, up to the four that we allow.

16:39 Was there ever a thought of releasing for people

16:40 who wanted add-on a version SKU without the puck?

16:44 To be more affordable or then you can leverage,

16:47 you know, the one that's bundled in?

16:49 Not uh not right now.

16:51 I think that right now,

16:52 just to make sure that the out-of-box experience is good,

16:55 it's just one puck per controller.

16:57 Because even if you're not going to be

16:58 using the puck for the wireless connection,

17:00 it's still a really handy way to charge it.

17:02 So, what we've done a lot of times,

17:03 especially um when we're testing Steam Machine or if

17:06 we have two controllers working off one puck,

17:08 we just plug the puck in by the, you know,

17:11 by the coffee table or somewhere else, and then it just serves as a uh

17:14 a charging station that doesn't have any wireless connectivity.

17:17 There's no data over those pins, right?

17:18 It's just charging over those pins.

17:20 Well, there's so a little bit of nuance because as I mentioned before,

17:26 like we know when the puck is attached because of one,

17:29 the the offsets for the thumb sticks.

17:31 There's some handshaking that happens to help with our pairing.

17:34 Um when you put the the controller on the puck,

17:38 if it's not paired with it, it will ask you,

17:40 "Do you want to pair with this puck?" And that was

17:42 for people who buy two or they have a Steam Machine or whatever.

17:46 Um it really just helps that experience be

17:48 a lot more smooth than having to navigate

17:49 through the UI to figure out how do I get paired this with a new thing.

17:52 Um so there is some low-level communication.

17:54 It's not sending controller data like,

17:56 you know, full-speed uh gaming-level data.

18:00 Yeah.

18:00 And just like a controller,

18:01 Steam Controller can switch between the the puck mode, wireless connection mode,

18:06 and and Bluetooth, it can recognize up to is it two pucks that you can have?

18:10 Is that right?

18:11 Yeah.

18:11 Okay.

18:12 Yeah, there's two pairing slots with the puck connection.

18:14 Yeah, and that's That's largely that is largely due to like

18:18 if you get a Steam Machine and a controller with it,

18:21 you get a puck with the controller and you

18:22 have your internal puck with the Steam Machine.

18:25 Uh you can pair with your Steam Machine and then

18:26 if you want to leave your puck upstairs by your PC,

18:28 you can go back and forth between the two and not have to repair every time.

18:31 Are you guys planning on releasing I know

18:34 the first Steam Controller you encouraged user modifications and even,

18:37 you know, with Steam Deck I've seen people swap

18:39 out their thumb sticks to Hall effect thumb sticks.

18:41 Like, you know, how open are you guys going to be

18:43 sharing the the CAD or just documentations for people to design,

18:48 make, and share their own mods?

18:51 Yeah, so we have we'll have a tight partnership with iFixit in terms

18:54 of like uh replacement parts and all that so that people can source their own.

18:59 Um and then on top of that, we're going to provide

19:00 the external geometry so people can make their own accessories.

19:03 We provided them to a few places already,

19:05 but we plan on sharing it out publicly like we did with the Steam Deck,

19:08 both the puck and the controller.

19:09 Especially from the puck side,

19:11 one of the reasons we kept it small is because like,

19:13 you know, big controller docks do exist,

19:16 but we wanted to respect desk real estate.

19:19 And plus, we like the experience of having it kind of snap up

19:21 and and charge and not have to kind of get it to align properly yourself.

19:25 But, with it being small,

19:26 third parties can kind of design whatever they want around it.

19:28 If they want to make a dock that holds it up or, you know,

19:31 a cool statue of a of Atlas putting it on his shoulders,

19:33 whatever they want to do, right?

19:35 Um they can do that because it's small and and easy to kind of design around.

19:39 Is there going to be a certification verification

19:40 program for people want you to to put

19:43 a compatible badge or to do things more than just a passive uh modification?

19:48 For the um for this kind of stuff,

19:50 like we didn't really have that for Steam Deck.

19:52 Um I don't think that will really be necessary for this product, either.

19:56 We do have a Steam compatible program for controllers,

19:59 um and we we will work and we have been working with manufacturers

20:03 to create other uh controllers that are made to work with Steam.

20:06 Um but that's kind of separate from from these this this kind of accessory.

20:10 Thank you guys so much uh again for making

20:12 the time for being so open about it as always.

20:15 Um yeah, and congrats on the uh

20:16 the announcement of the pricing and the launch date,

20:18 and we're looking forward to to May 4th.

20:20 Yeah.

20:20 Thank you much.

20:22 Yeah.

20:22 So, I wanted to welcome into the conversation our senior producer, Josh Self.

20:26 This is Josh.

20:27 Uh Josh, you play a lot of PC games,

20:30 many games that are different than the ones I play.

20:32 Right.

20:33 And because of Valve sent us two Steam Controllers,

20:36 I asked you to help me with this testing for this review.

20:39 Uh to kick things off,

20:40 let's talk about the Steam Controller just as a controller

20:44 compared to the other first-party offerings out there.

20:48 Uh for me, previous to this, I'd been very

20:50 happy using like the Xbox Controller as my primary gamepad.

20:55 Um how do you think this compares to your favorite gamepad previously?

20:59 I would say yeah, so I'm in the same boat.

21:00 I use the Xbox Controller mostly on my PC.

21:04 Um but what I found ever since I got the Steam Deck is that if

21:07 I'm using a gamepad or if I'm playing a game that needs a gamepad,

21:11 I play it on the Steam Deck.

21:12 Right.

21:12 And I usually play handheld mode.

21:13 I don't have it docked or anything.

21:15 So, uh I actually haven't been using the Xbox

21:18 controller that much since I got the Steam Deck,

21:21 but that was my go-to PC gamepad for years and you know,

21:25 bought a few of them and as they broke down and deteriorated or whatever,

21:29 but I I feel like Microsoft and Xbox

21:32 with the asymmetrical design and their buttons here,

21:35 like their D-pad is to me superior than what I found on the Steam Controller.

21:41 Okay.

21:41 Like, it's a matter of preference.

21:43 This is a little clickier.

21:44 You can even hear it.

21:45 It's a clickier D-pad.

21:46 Steam Controller, it's a little mushier, yeah, right?

21:50 The The thumb sticks are basically equal.

21:52 It's fewer features here, but they've really,

21:56 to me, almost perfected the form factor.

21:59 It weighs about the same.

22:00 I I like the contours and maybe the texture more and it's

22:04 a thing I miss when I was using the Steam Controller.

22:07 Yeah, I think this is where we split a little

22:09 bit because I actually do prefer this kind of layout.

22:12 Mhm.

22:12 Um It's symmetrical.

22:13 Yeah, I don't like it being offset.

22:16 Um you know, if I'm playing a gamepad game,

22:18 I'm playing stuff like Super Meat Boy or Celeste or VVVVVV,

22:22 like those kind of platformers.

22:24 And so, I just like having it be symmetrical.

22:26 And that was like when I started playing with an Xbox pad,

22:29 I was sort of like, "Oh, I got to get used to this." And then,

22:31 you know, they moved it down and things like that, so

22:33 And I guess that's why the uh touchpad exists, right?

22:36 So, a lot of games that you're playing asymmetrically,

22:38 the D-pad for me becomes like a a menu option.

22:41 You're using this for shortcuts, activating a menu, a quick actions,

22:44 and they have the equivalent of that that you can

22:47 then customize with Steam Input with that touchpad down here.

22:51 Um do you make use of things like

22:54 the the grip buttons or, you know, the or the gyro?

22:59 Um yeah, I was using the gyro a lot during the testing.

23:01 Um and I think I in large a lot of the stuff that I was testing,

23:05 I was just doing it to try it.

23:07 And it wasn't even really like I was just kind of like, "Okay, this is here.

23:10 I'm going to set it up and make use of it." Um but yeah,

23:14 so I was playing a bunch of Doom 2016.

23:17 And and that felt really good actually.

23:20 And that game doesn't have native gyro support.

23:22 So I mapped the gyro to the mouse button,

23:25 but you can still use the right thumbstick Right.

23:28 and look around.

23:29 And then the gyro becomes like a fine-tune, you know,

23:32 kind of finesse, get a headshot kind of thing.

23:34 And and I think setup is the operative word here,

23:36 because in the Steam menu, you know,

23:38 even if before you had the Steam controller,

23:40 you can use Steam input as a software layer to download templates,

23:45 download predefined mappings that the whole community has made.

23:50 And that level of granularity extends to something even like the gyro.

23:54 That was one of those things I was really curious about.

23:56 You know, the pitch of can you use the gyro

23:58 as like a precision aiming device when you're scoped in, right?

24:02 When you theoretically when you're like

24:03 looking down the barrel like iron sights.

24:06 Uh and for me, the default for the gyro,

24:09 which you can have it as a toggle, right?

24:11 So you map it to the mouse cursor.

24:14 Uh you can you can set your dead zones.

24:16 You can set all sorts of offsets.

24:18 You can set sorts of like how many degrees per turn are you actually moving.

24:23 Um but you can for me, it's like playing Doom with Arc Ages,

24:27 I had the gyro mapped to um when my thumb was on Right.

24:32 the thumbstick, because there's a capacitive sensor underneath here.

24:35 And you can map it even to like the grip sense.

24:37 So I think one of the ways that people use it is,

24:39 you know, when you have both hands, the gyro is activated,

24:42 but because the gyro is only this high

24:45 degree of a three degree of freedom sensor,

24:48 and you can kind of lose your center, right?

24:51 You want to recenter it.

24:52 Then you maybe let go of the grip and then

24:55 recenter your controller and then get the gyro back centered.

24:59 Yeah, and that's something that happened to me during Forza.

25:01 I decided that I would use the gyro as like the steering wheel.

25:04 Oh, okay.

25:05 And I set it so that yeah, when I was gripping it, the gyro was active,

25:09 but I found that if I was moving my fingers

25:11 around to hit the accelerator and the brakes and everything,

25:13 I would it would you know, lose where my hands were.

25:17 Oh, you would actually lose the grip sense.

25:20 They would yeah, I'd lose the grip sense, it would turn the gyro off,

25:22 and I'd be turning the wheel,

25:24 and then when I gripped it again, this became center.

25:26 Oh, wow.

25:27 And so I would have to like let go and then like get it back.

25:31 Yeah, yeah.

25:31 Just because of the way you're holding it.

25:33 Right, yeah.

25:34 Right.

25:34 We did a teardown of the Steam controller, and we could see along the inside

25:39 of the grip here where that capacitive sense is.

25:44 It's not a pressure sensitive,

25:45 so the name grip sense I think is a little bit of a misnomer.

25:49 It's more of like a passive am I holding it's a hold sense of whether

25:53 you're actually holding it because uh when you

25:56 you play like a VR game for example,

25:57 you want to grip like the old Valve Index controllers,

26:00 you actually had a force sensitivity of how strong you gripped.

26:04 Right.

26:04 The equivalent of that for like a like a touch

26:07 controller or something for for for VR is the button, right?

26:11 So that's why I called this the the grip button.

26:13 If you're going to toggle if you play a game like Half-Life Alyx, like Mhm.

26:16 I'm pressing this, now I'm holding an object, you know,

26:18 I wouldn't let go of the controller to to let go of an object in that sense.

26:24 Um Okay.

26:25 find that that sensitive that area could be maybe bigger, right?

26:29 It was like one strip.

26:31 Mhm.

26:31 Um and the thing that I had an issue with and I'm

26:33 curious about for your driving games is the paddle button here.

26:37 Yeah.

26:37 Did you find that paddle button useful on the bottom, this lower back button?

26:42 Um not really for driving, but for shooters.

26:47 Yeah, so I would map that to like a jump in Doom.

26:52 And and then that way it let my thumbs just kind of stay on movement.

26:56 So getting that that jump button off my thumb was was pretty useful.

27:00 Um I found that if you look at the valves array of controllers,

27:05 the way they've implemented just the back buttons is has been different.

27:08 Like this in the original 2015 Steam controller, that's a paddle.

27:13 Like it's a singular on each side.

27:14 You only get two on the back, but that is clearly a wide paddle.

27:18 So you think of the analog to like a steering wheel,

27:20 you can like use this to shift gears, right?

27:23 Very easily.

27:23 Makes sense.

27:24 It's wide.

27:24 It clicks.

27:25 On the Steam Deck, it's a pretty big.

27:29 It's a curve.

27:29 And I would still call these like I like using

27:31 these paddles cuz I can get two fingers on them.

27:34 When I think of a paddle,

27:35 I kind of want to have two fingers my like my my ring and pinky finger.

27:38 And that was that worked well.

27:40 I found on this Steam controller,

27:42 the circle it being a little smaller, I wish that it was taller.

27:46 Like I'm just hitting it with my my ring finger.

27:50 And I'm not it doesn't feel as good.

27:52 And I feel like they could have had the circle for this top

27:56 what I call grip button and then a taller paddle button.

28:00 And again, looking on the inside during the disassembly, there was space for it.

28:03 They could have just wired around that capacitive sense

28:06 back to the motherboard around a little taller button.

28:09 And that's that's what I wish they could they changed.

28:11 I was actually yeah,

28:12 I was I thought it was kind of weird that they were circles.

28:14 Yeah.

28:15 Like on the Steam Deck, you get those big squares that you can hit.

28:18 And I think maybe it's so that you don't hit them as easily.

28:22 When you're holding on to it?

28:23 Yeah.

28:24 Yeah.

28:24 Although compared to the Steam Deck, it's more contoured.

28:29 Like this is ergonomically not only is it lighter and your stance is,

28:32 you know, maybe more comfortable and and tucked in.

28:35 But this this contour here is curvaceous which which theoretically is,

28:40 you know, more comfortable to hold.

28:42 I still think it's not as comfortable.

28:43 I like the ergonomics of this.

28:46 Kind of kind of bows up.

28:47 And I know it was made for your thumbs to articulate around those touch pads,

28:50 but I still think like it's the Xbox is kind of my favorite in terms

28:55 of just the the shape and the the feel of the material for this.

28:59 Yeah, I mean it was kind of funny cuz

29:00 you did the teardown and we were looking at it

29:02 and I could say it was like I could see a hundred bucks worth of stuff in there.

29:05 There's a surprising amount of electronics, right?

29:07 Yeah.

29:07 It's like am I looking at a hundred dollars

29:09 and am I getting a hundred dollar experience from it?

29:11 Like uh you know, remains to be seen, but Yeah,

29:15 it it seems like in the conversation with Valve,

29:17 you know, they fully acknowledge like their robustness

29:20 for this controller is is in the software layer.

29:24 Right.

29:24 They've created almost like a platform of a controller

29:28 for enthusiasts to be able to competently

29:32 play your keyboard mouse games on a big

29:35 screen TV to customize everything about these touch pads,

29:39 about the gyros, to map out all sorts of macros,

29:43 which is very different than like this is the PlayStation the Edge controller,

29:47 their high-end like hundred fifty dollar controller.

29:50 And all the customization here is on in the hardware.

29:53 Right?

29:53 They actually have literal physical toggles for resistance for the triggers

29:57 and you can swap out the touch pads and and add,

30:01 you know, different types of of paddles in the back

30:04 and I really like like this paddle design.

30:06 I really like those.

30:07 Those are super nice.

30:08 Much heavier controller, but it's it's in the hardware and this looks

30:12 and feels like a premium hardware device.

30:15 Well, this maybe the experience is more premium because of what you

30:19 can do if you are willing to spend the time to customize it.

30:22 This feels like an eighty dollar controller to me and maybe it's because I don't

30:26 make use of the touch pads nearly as much as maybe some other people do.

30:30 Sure.

30:30 And I kind of wish there was a version of this without the touch pads.

30:35 Yeah.

30:35 Is that crazy?

30:37 Should I try to justify this?

30:38 when you look at it and you look at like

30:39 the real estate on the face plate and everything,

30:41 there's so much they have to like devote to those touchpads.

30:45 And you know, it's not as crazy as the original Steam Controller where

30:50 this was like a hardware solution

30:52 trying to solve a software problem essentially.

30:55 They're backing away from that a little bit but not taking it away totally.

31:00 Um you know, I'm I'm not using the touchpads to play you know,

31:05 something like Crusader Kings or you know,

31:08 like Diablo II or something like Um it's still it's not there.

31:11 I don't want that experience on a couch still.

31:13 You know, the keyboard and mouse is still

31:15 superior for those games that were designed for basically.

31:18 And I think we've kind of moved like 10 years down the line now, right?

31:21 Like for shooters, you know, there was a case to be made that you know,

31:25 if you wanted to have a great shooter experience,

31:28 you had to go on keyboard and mouse.

31:30 Yeah.

31:30 Um and there are a lot of cross-platform games now.

31:33 Uh and a touchpad gives you maybe better precision.

31:35 I think the gyro does a great job of giving me a lot of that precision.

31:39 Definitely.

31:39 So, I like the gyro a lot.

31:41 I think I feel like the touchpad is like it's it's a it's it's a crutch.

31:44 It's solving a a game design problem

31:47 that maybe doesn't exist anymore because so many

31:50 AAA games now are cross-platform and have been

31:53 designed and optimized for a gamepad in mind.

31:56 It's also solving a fundamental interface problem.

31:59 I mean, SteamOS being a Linux system and it having

32:02 to do the proton translation layer to get PC games working,

32:06 Windows games working on Steam means that you

32:08 run into having sometimes to go into a desktop.

32:11 Having to see, you know, a login screen.

32:14 You having to navigate small UI.

32:17 Like this is a a UI problem that hardware is trying to address and solve.

32:22 But in an ideal world, like maybe just even the Steam store, right?

32:26 Navigating big picture mode, yes, that's nice and I can see my library and home.

32:30 But once I get to a store page and getting

32:32 into the community tabs and in the store page,

32:34 it's it feels like it's a desktop experience still.

32:37 Yeah, it goes right back to it.

32:38 Right.

32:38 And And this is like maybe a philosophical

32:40 thing that Valve has has decided to make, right?

32:43 Like they could make the Steam interface just more gamepad friendly,

32:47 more thumbstick and button friendly, so you don't need the the trackpad.

32:50 But maybe that's a just That could be like a It could be crazy.

32:55 Yeah.

32:56 Um Are you going to switch to this?

32:59 Honestly, yeah.

33:00 I think this is going to become my new uh PC gamepad.

33:03 And uh you know, I'll I'll keep the Xbox One around, but uh you know,

33:08 when I when I One last thing is like when I was thinking about the price,

33:11 you know, I've gone through probably a few Xbox pads,

33:13 and they're not that easy to repair.

33:16 And it's almost kind of worth it to just like buy a new one eventually,

33:20 or even like sourcing the shoulder buttons and things like that.

33:23 So, you know, if they can commit to uh this being easily repairable,

33:26 then maybe like $100 over the course of 3 years or so um justifies itself.

33:31 Uh and and this is one something that we kind of wanted to get

33:34 out of them during the interview was uh what is the longevity of this?

33:39 Are they Is it how future-proof is this gamepad?

33:41 Because presumably they're working on We know they're working on Steam Deck 2.

33:45 And it sounds like Steam Deck 2, the impression I got,

33:48 would not have extra features that then the Steam

33:51 Controller would not be able to have parity with.

33:54 Like it's not going to have

33:56 fundamentally different triggers or a different interface.

33:59 Um the fact that this can get tracked by a IR light with the Steam Frame,

34:04 that's really exciting cuz I really love the idea

34:06 of having visualization of this while wearing a VR headset.

34:10 Uh and that point um over Bluetooth connection,

34:13 I was able to connect this to the Vision Pro, go play over Steam Link,

34:16 so you have that low-latency connection directly to the headset.

34:19 And the Vision Pro immediately recognized this both as a gamepad,

34:22 but also the trackpads as a cursor, as a scroll wheel.

34:26 And even over that Bluetooth and then Steam Link connection,

34:29 Steam recognized that it was the Steam Controller.

34:32 It wasn't a generic gamepad.

34:33 So, you don't have to be directly connected to the charging puck.

34:37 You can be you know, piggybacking off of a VR headset

34:40 and still have full functionality on Steam Controller.

34:44 Um the range was great.

34:44 That 2.4 wireless connection.

34:46 Obviously, we only had these units.

34:47 We didn't have the the 16 that they said you can plug up,

34:51 you know, for a Steam Machine.

34:52 Um and the Steam Machine will have a dedicated receiver.

34:57 So, you don't need that charging puck.

35:00 Okay, that makes sense.

35:01 Yeah.

35:01 And and that's also another place that they

35:02 could cut down on the pricing, you know,

35:04 if in the future for people buying their second or third Steam Controllers,

35:08 charge much less than $100 if you don't need that the puck with it.

35:12 Right.

35:12 Yeah, I foresee most people that own these in the future probably

35:16 got them in a bundle with a Steam Machine or a Steam Frame.

35:19 Right.

35:20 Um I don't see a ton of people buying

35:22 this just as a replacement Xbox Controller or, you know,

35:26 maybe you have one of these as the daddy controller and then

35:28 you have your little brother controller always with a team button.

35:31 We're hungry for Valve hardware, right?

35:32 You know, it's it's been a couple months since they announced all the hardware.

35:35 Steam Machine, who knows when that's going to come out,

35:37 when Steam Frame's going to come out.

35:38 So, I think people are just like, we want what's new, we want them.

35:41 And this is the new thing right now.

35:43 It's been, you know, the the manufacturing date is September 2025.

35:45 So, these have been sitting in a warehouse

35:48 and it's hardware awaiting more hardware.

35:52 It really is, yeah.

35:53 I mean, like a few months ago,

35:54 the future seemed so bright for Valve hardware and it's

35:57 almost like we got like the the little morsel.

36:00 Waiting for the main course.

36:02 So, yeah.

36:02 Yeah.

36:02 So, hopefully that'll be sometime soon.

36:05 Um but thanks so much for watching and we'll see you next time.