Overtime with Bill Maher: Gillian Tett & Bret Stephens (HBO)

0:00 All right, he's a Pulitzer Prize-winning opinion

0:02 columnist for The New York Times, Bret Stephens.

0:04 (AUDIENCE CHEERS, APPLAUDS) And she is the head of King's College,

0:07 Cambridge, my old job, and a Financial Times columnist, Gillian Tett.

0:11 -Okay.

0:12 All right.

0:13 -(CHEERING, APPLAUSE CONTINUES) Bret, this is for you.

0:16 "How can Trump wrap up the Iran war and claim success?" Oh, what a question.

0:21 Um...

0:21 I think the blockade is a good idea.

0:25 I think if the Iranians don't come to terms— By the way,

0:28 I think they'll be under a great deal of economic pressure very soon as their...

0:32 inability to fund themselves becomes— becomes more severe.

0:37 I think he may have to stage operations to seize the enriched uranium.

0:42 It's difficult but doable.

0:44 That was the purpose of this mission.

0:46 Stopping Iran from getting a nuclear bomb is a very worthy objective.

0:52 -And if then that leads...

0:53 -(AUDIENCE APPLAUDS) ...not now or even in six months, but in a year's time,

0:57 that pressure leads to the end of this terrible regime,

1:00 the world will be much better off for it.

1:02 So right now, the war feels like...

1:05 (AUDIENCE APPLAUDS) ...stopping World War II in 1943.

1:09 You can say, "Well, it's a failure,"

1:10 but we should continue because the objective

1:12 of preventing this uniquely evil regime from getting

1:16 these uniquely devastating weapons is a good objective.

1:18 But you don't want to go back to bombing the country, do you?

1:20 I would— No, only to the— for the sake

1:23 of achieving the objectives that we need to achieve,

1:25 which is— -Well that, of course.

1:26 -BRET STEPHENS: Well— -Not for shit— -(AUDIENCE LAUGHS) I didn't

1:28 think we were gonna do it for shits and giggles.

1:30 My— Well, no, but my point— Let me just be clear.

1:34 What Trump says about setting Iran back to the Stone Age,

1:38 ending a civilization, is despicable.

1:40 Okay, that's despicable.

1:42 -All right, we want an Iran...

1:44 -(AUDIENCE APPLAUDS) ...which is the great nation that it is,

1:49 to rejoin the community of civilized countries and to overthrow

1:52 a regime which is opposed by 90 percent of Iranians.

1:55 We don't want to devastate the Iranian people.

1:57 What we want to make sure is that these thugs

2:00 who run the regime don't have access to weapons.

2:02 And if that requires us going into places like Isfahan

2:06 and other sites where we have to get this nuclear material,

2:10 then to the extent that requires bombing, military action, that's worthwhile.

2:15 Well, good luck on that one.

2:16 But I'd say, ironically, from the point of view of the markets,

2:18 the great battle right now is between the TACO acronym,

2:21 Trump Always Chickens Out, which is one reason why the markets are surging.

2:24 People think Trump wants an exit ramp.

2:27 And the new acronym, which is NACHO, No chance the Hormuz opens.

2:33 That's where— Nacho, think about it, N-A-C-H-O.

2:36 -Oh, I thought...

2:38 -"No chance Hormuz opens." -BILL MAHER: Well...

2:40 -Or "Not a chance Hormuz opens." And the reality is actually

2:43 reopening the Strait of Hormuz is going to be incredibly hard.

2:46 However you— you know, even if you send in troops and try and, you know,

2:49 take over the country, or do SWAT teams to try and get out the uranium.

2:52 But in that case, then it's something that we have to do.

2:54 I've spoken with military experts.

2:56 They say it's a difficult thing, but that we can do it.

2:58 And the principle— Excuse me, the principle— BILL: Do what?

3:01 Open the Straits of Hormuz if the Iranians won't—

3:04 if the Iranians won't yield to military and diplomatic pressure.

3:08 -But do you think— -Because the principle that Iran

3:10 can control an international waterway is outrageous and dangerous.

3:13 And by the way, I would add,

3:14 this is something where I know the Europeans have good reason to be extremely

3:18 upset with Trump for the threats to Greenland and all the rest of it.

3:21 But the Europeans also have an interest in contributing something

3:24 to making sure that this part of international law is respected.

3:28 I know, for instance,

3:29 the British and other NATO allies have mine— anti-mine capabilities.

3:33 They should contribute to that.

3:34 -(AUDIENCE APPLAUDS) -Yeah,

3:35 the British have already volunteered to help with the mine sweeping.

3:39 -The British have— They're— They're just going around the Cape of Good Hope.

3:41 The British— Yeah.

3:42 The British have volunteered already to go in.

3:44 Well, those are— the Iranians are going down south, but...

3:46 And the British have volunteered already.

3:48 But, of course, if Trump had actually, one,

3:50 spoken to the Europeans before he went in, and maybe even asked their advice,

3:53 two, not threatened to invade Greenland regularly,

3:57 it might have helped a bit in terms

3:58 of trying to get some coordination and collaboration.

4:00 I agree.

4:01 I couldn't agree more.

4:02 And the big problem right now is, it's also,

4:04 if the American SWAT teams do go in and do

4:07 this Rambo-esque type mission to get the uranium, what happens after that?

4:11 Because one problem is,

4:12 one tragedy about what's happening is that by bombing Iran in this way,

4:17 they've actually consolidated support for the regime,

4:20 and they've killed off many of the leaders who

4:22 were more moderate that they could've actually -spoken to.

4:23 -Hang on a second.

4:24 The leaders who were more moderate just murdered -30,000 Iranians.

4:27 -I agree.

4:28 Like, oh, you know, we could go back to the good

4:30 old days when they killed 30,000 people in the street.

4:33 Look, I don't know what's gonna happen.

4:34 What I know is that in June of last year, before we hit their sites,

4:38 the United States did,

4:41 Iran's nuclear program was weeks away from acquiring a nuclear capability.

4:47 We had— The world had the equivalent of stage four cancer.

4:49 Maybe now it has stage one or stage two cancer.

4:52 I don't know what comes next, but I think that's better.

4:54 I think it is better at a minimum to buy time against an adversary like that.

4:58 And if the result is you create a space where

5:01 the Iranian people do have an opportunity to rise up,

5:04 hopefully this time assisted by their friends overseas,

5:08 let's try to create that space.

5:09 There's no guarantee because we're not going to invade Iran and do it for them,

5:12 but let's at least try to make sure that we don't get

5:15 to the point when this regime can get so close to a nuclear war.

5:19 -But it'd be nice if...

5:20 -(AUDIENCE CHEERS, APPLAUDS) I agree with that.

5:25 It'd be nice if President Trump sometimes spoke more about the Iranian people,

5:28 rather than just the oil.

5:30 -Oh, I regret President Trump.

5:31 -Because, at the moment— But at least— at least he was willing to do something.

5:34 And I have to give him credit for that.

5:36 I just can't oppose him because he's a schmuck.

5:38 I agree.

5:39 I agree.

5:39 I mean, sometimes, schmucks help you out.

5:41 But then you have to start actually talking about the Iranian

5:43 people who have suffered so badly -under this current regime...

5:45 -I agree.

5:46 ...and pay more attention to them and try and support the opposition

5:49 group that are trying to push for change in their country.

5:52 -We haven't seen that.

5:52 -Let's do another question.

5:53 -BRET: All right.

5:54 -(GILLIAN, AUDIENCE LAUGHS) "How should policy--" This is for you.

5:57 ..."respond to reports— How should policymakers respond to reports

6:00 that AI can help generate instructions for biological weapons?" Yes,

6:05 of all the things we're talking about this week,

6:07 this is probably the one that's gonna be affecting our lives the most.

6:10 AI can help generate instructions for biological weapons.

6:15 -GILLIAN TETT: That is true.

6:16 -You think COVID was bad.

6:17 And the lab there and blah, blah, blah.

6:20 -This is just doomsday stuff.

6:21 -Yep, that is absolutely true.

6:23 It is doomsday stuff.

6:24 It's been true for a while.

6:26 It's terrifying.

6:27 You can't put the genie back in the bottle right now, unfortunately.

6:30 You can't just switch off all the AI in the world.

6:32 I suspect the only way to fight the risks of AI

6:35 is to use more AI to try and monitor what's going on.

6:38 -BILL: Really?

6:39 -Yeah.

6:40 Do you have an answer?

6:41 No, I think you're right.

6:42 Uh...

6:42 Unfortunately, it's too late.

6:44 I mean, if I could wave a magic wand and— and actually end AI,

6:50 I might— I might actually do it,

6:52 not least so that 17-year-olds won't have their papers written for them

6:56 by a machine and they could learn to think by learning to write.

6:59 The answer to doing that is basically getting to do handwritten essays.

7:02 -Yes.

7:02 -Or to have one-on-one supervisions.

7:04 Again, not to talk about Cambridge, but that's what we do there.

7:07 We actually have handwritten papers and exams.

7:09 Blue books can save human civilization.

7:11 -Exactly.

7:12 -(AUDIENCE LAUGHS) (AUDIENCE APPLAUDS) BILL: Okay.

7:19 You can say analogue is a new luxury good.

7:21 Yes, it is.

7:22 So your country is banning cigarettes...

7:26 after 2000— uh...

7:28 from anyone who was born after 2009.

7:31 -Banning cigarettes.

7:31 -Under 18, yes.

7:33 Right.

7:33 Well, I guess that's what is.

7:34 -If you're born after 2009...

7:35 -GILLIAN: Yeah, do the math.

7:37 ...you'll be— illegal to buy cigarettes.

7:41 Why?

7:41 I mean...

7:43 Don't people get to make their own mistake?

7:44 Don't we get to do what we wanna do?

7:46 I mean, you're an adult.

7:47 And you can't have a cigarette if you want?

7:50 -I mean, every time— -GILLIAN:

7:51 I'm not— Every time I think this country is too woke,

7:54 I look at what's going on in your country,

7:56 and I'm like, "Wow, these people are really fucked up." (GILLIAN,

7:59 AUDIENCE LAUGHS) Well, does that make you feel better?

8:01 It does not make me feel better, but it puts some perspective in this situation.

8:05 I mean— Okay, personally, I don't agree with a complete ban.

8:09 I do agree in not selling cigarettes to under-18s,

8:12 but I don't agree personally— But how did England get so...

8:15 so leftist?

8:15 I mean, I've read that the United Arab Emirates will not send

8:20 their students to the UK because they're afraid they're going to be radicalized.

8:26 I think that might be some of the fake news -that you're concerned about.

8:29 -BILL: No, no, no.

8:30 There are plenty of UAE students, students from the Gulf...

8:32 -Well, maybe now.

8:33 -...in the UK.

8:33 But that's something they did recently.

8:35 They said they're going to end scholarships to the UK.

8:38 And where did you read that?

8:39 Because, I mean, again, there's been an awful lot of stuff on social media.

8:43 Um, a lot of the fearmongering about the UK right now is whipped up.

8:47 This idea, somehow, London is a no-go zone.

8:49 It's full of people walking around with the Sharia

8:51 law and all that, on every street.

8:53 A lot of it's whipped up.

8:55 BRET: Well, but hang on a second.

8:56 Two Jews did get stabbed this week.

8:58 -Somebody went just Jew hunting.

8:58 -GILLIAN: They did.

8:59 They did.

9:00 And that is horrific and tragic and abhorrent.

9:03 BILL: Hmm.

9:04 Okay.

9:04 The UK is not the only place where we've had -attacks on Jews at all.

9:07 -BILL: Oh, yeah, of course not.

9:08 And all of that is abhorrent.

9:11 All right.

9:12 It's not— From everything I hear,

9:16 Jews in the UK feel less safe than they have since the days before Cromwell.

9:21 It is— It is— And I think that the British government

9:24 needs to sort of understand just how serious this is a threat,

9:28 not just to the Jewish community, but to, uh, British democracy itself.

9:33 Because attacks against Jews are always

9:35 the indication that there's something deeply rotten

9:38 in the value system of the— of the country where this is springing.

9:42 And I understand that there's the particular problem of attacks from, you know,

9:47 radicalized young people against Jews,

9:50 but they are swimming in a larger current where

9:53 Palestine Action goes and swings a hammer at a policeman,

9:58 and the person who swung the hammer gets— gets, uh...

10:02 gets acquitted by a jury, where the— I mean, I was just in London in April.

10:08 Obviously, you were there, but I was...

10:10 flabbergasted by the extent to which the city seems

10:15 to have mobilized on behalf of a particular cause.

10:18 So again, it's a little bit like our earlier discussion.

10:21 When you have a huge mass of people who think that Israel is a demonic state,

10:26 it's— and that that's okay, it's, at some point,

10:29 going to translate into people who think it's okay to target individual Jews,

10:34 it's okay to send a car bomb into a Manchester

10:37 synagogue because they're mad about what's happening -in the Middle East.

10:41 -Okay, listen, I agree with you.

10:42 -(AUDIENCE CHEERS, APPLAUDS) -Anti-Semitism is abhorrent.

10:43 However...

10:45 That is abhorrent.

10:47 However, Australia had a massive anti-Semitic attack in Bondi Beach.

10:52 America has also had a lot of anti-Semitic attacks.

10:55 So to single out the UK because two people were stabbed,

11:00 at least not shot, but stabbed, -I think it's unfair.

11:02 -Well, it's not the only thing that's happened in the UK.

11:04 Exactly.

11:04 There's been a lot of anti-Semitism right across the Western world,

11:08 including in America, so.

11:09 BILL: All right.

11:09 Final question.

11:10 "What's the impact of Spirit

11:12 Airlines shutting..." -(AUDIENCE LAUGHS) -"...shutting down?

11:16 Do you think Trump will end up bailing them out?" He said,

11:18 "We're just gonna buy it." It seems to be his answer for a lot of things.

11:22 "We're just gonna buy it." Yeah, the irony is you've got a supposedly

11:25 right-wing government that's turning more nationalist,

11:27 in terms of their attitude with the economy, than the left wing.

11:30 And the idea that the White House was criticizing Mamdani

11:34 in New York for daring to think about creating some state-owned grocery

11:38 stores and then rushed out and basically are investing in all

11:42 these mineral and natural resources groups

11:43 and talking about buying Spirit Airlines.

11:45 I mean, that is not capitalism as most people know it.

11:47 Well, I have a plan for it.

11:49 He can buy it, he can call it Trump Airlines,

11:51 it can go bankrupt like the first Trump Airlines...

11:53 (AUDIENCE LAUGHS) ...and it'll be a metaphor for his entire career.

11:56 -(AUDIENCE APPLAUDS) -We'll leave it there.

11:58 Thank you very much!