Hoping for More

0:01 This is the plaintiff, William Ortiz.

0:04 He says the defendant, a friend of 10 years,

0:07 is stiffening him on money he's owed for a car he co-signed for.

0:11 The car was stolen.

0:12 She received all the insurance money.

0:14 And now the bill collectors are after him to pay off the car.

0:18 Some people.

0:20 He's suing for $1,367.34.

0:23 The money he's due.

0:30 This is the defendant, Leslie Hernandez.

0:33 She says she has to admit she was a little

0:35 taken aback when she received notice she'd been sued.

0:39 The plaintiff wrote a check out to collections,

0:41 mailed it in, and she thought that was that.

0:43 He never told her it was a loan, and can't just turn around on a dime,

0:47 and now say she has to pay him back all because his wife is mad at him.

0:51 She's accused of letting a good friend down.

0:59 Okay.

0:59 William Ortiz, you are suing Lesie Hernandez, your friend, former friend,

1:04 I guess, because litigation has a way of getting between people.

1:07 Yes.

1:07 For $1,367.34 that you say you loaned her, and she has refused to repay.

1:13 What happened here?

1:15 Well, some time ago, I had known Leslie over 10 years,

1:18 and she needed a co-sign for a car.

1:21 Were you boyfriend and girlfriend or just

1:22 No, no, just friends.

1:23 Okay.

1:24 because of her I got to meet my wife, my lovely wife at that.

1:27 So I have to thank for that at least sometimes.

1:31 Right.

1:32 So sometimes

1:34 sometimes

1:35 um so um in April of 06 I cosigned for the car.

1:39 She was uh fulfilling her obligation,

1:41 paying the note until one day she called me and the car was

1:44 Why have you ever cosigned for somebody else?

1:46 No.

1:46 No.

1:47 Why would you How much what kind of car did she buy?

1:50 I guess it was 06 Honda.

1:52 I believe it was a brand new car.

1:54 Okay.

1:54 Why would you cosign for somebody who's a friend

1:56 of yours to buy a brand new car?

1:58 I asked myself that.

1:59 You do know what cosign means, right?

2:00 Yeah.

2:00 Believe me.

2:01 Okay.

2:01 And if I didn't know, I learned it.

2:03 Why did you do Why did you Did you good friends?

2:06 I'm good.

2:06 Listen, I got a lot of good friends.

2:08 AND NOT A ONE OF THEM is trying to rain money on me.

2:12 So, I either got to get a better class of friends

2:13 or I got to understand what's going through your head.

2:16 I mean, you realize THAT THAT COULD JEOPARDIZE YOUR

2:18 CREDIT.

2:18 YES.

2:18 We've had a transaction prior to that.

2:20 and she fulfilled her obligation.

2:22 So, I figured she

2:23 How big was that transaction?

2:25 Uh, well, I took out an apartment for her under my name.

2:28 Oh my god, that was enormous.

2:29 How How for How long did you take?

2:32 Probably a year.

2:32 I can't remember exactly, but about a year.

2:34 How did you do that?

2:35 You'd be help at the time.

2:38 I think this is what friends are for.

2:40 I think you took out an apartment in his name for a year.

2:45 Are you sure nothing went on between you two?

2:47 No.

2:48 Nothing.

2:48 She would have lived with me instead.

2:49 Why did you ask him to put an apartment in his name for you for a year?

2:53 Because the person I was married to, I left

2:56 his sister in my apartment in good faith and she left.

3:00 So, she ruined my um rental history.

3:02 So, I couldn't get an apartment.

3:04 So, I called Mr.

3:05 Ortiz.

3:06 He went that How can someone else ruin your rental history unless you let them?

3:11 Why did you pretend that you were still living there?

3:13 Because you needed somebody to assume the rent payments.

3:16 Yes.

3:16 And why didn't you just tell the landlord, you know,

3:18 here's what's going on and try to come up to some agreement?

3:21 Cuz I wanted to keep my apartment here just in case.

3:24 Was it a rent control?

3:25 Stop.

3:25 Stop.

3:25 Stop.

3:25 Stop.

3:26 Was it a rent control department?

3:29 Yeah.

3:31 Ah, I see.

3:31 Okay.

3:32 So, um, that doesn't work out so well.

3:34 So, now you can't rent an apartment.

3:36 So, you go to him.

3:37 Why?

3:37 Cuz you figured he'd do it.

3:39 Because I've known him more than not 10 years, but maybe 20 years.

3:44 Okay.

3:44 And he's always been there for me when I needed something.

3:49 Okay.

3:50 And I asked him, he was the only person that came to mind.

3:53 Yeah.

3:53 Cuz he's a guy who'll do it.

3:55 Okay.

3:55 Your other friends aren't going to do it, right?

3:57 You have family.

4:00 Yeah.

3:59 Yeah.

3:59 Your family's not going to do it.

4:02 No.

4:02 Heck no.

4:02 So, you go to him because you know he'll do it.

4:04 Did Did I'm sorry I keep asking this, but did you think he liked you?

4:11 Yeah.

4:10 Yeah.

4:10 Right.

4:10 like like you like you cuz that's when we

4:14 think we can take advantage of somebody is if they

4:17 have like one of these really generous personalities which

4:19 he does and if they're hoping for something more maybe.

4:23 Do you have a friend good enough that you'd cosign a car for?

4:27 No.

4:27 Good enough friend?

4:28 Oh yeah, I definitely do.

4:30 Really?

4:30 Yes, I do actually.

4:31 And you think that friend would not stiff you?

4:33 Uh not at the not right now.

4:34 No.

4:35 Yeah, we'll talk later.

4:35 Going inside the courtroom.

4:37 So now now you you rent the apartment for a year in his name.

4:40 That's over with.

4:41 And you um now you want to buy a brand spanking new whatever and you

4:46 don't have the money to do that apparently or the credit to do that.

4:48 So you use him as a co-signer.

4:50 And and again he's the one who came to mind.

4:52 Okay.

4:53 Nobody in your family was going to co-sign a loan for you.

4:55 No none of your other friends were going to cosign a loan for you.

4:58 So let's call William Ortiz because he'll do it for you.

5:03 Yeah.

5:03 But I won't say I used him.

5:06 No.

5:06 Really?

5:06 Cuz it sounds like that.

5:07 When I say it, it sounds bad.

5:09 Right.

5:09 No.

5:09 Well, yeah.

5:12 Right.

5:12 When I say it sounds bad and all I've done is say what you did.

5:15 I've never used them because every time I ask

5:17 him for a favor or whatever the case may be,

5:21 I always pay him back.

5:24 Okay.

5:24 So, now you have him cosign except for this time, right?

5:28 Exactly.

5:27 Right.

5:28 So, now you have him cosign and as it turns out, the car gets stolen.

5:32 Okay.

5:33 And you have insurance on the car.

5:36 Yes.

5:35 Okay.

5:35 So, why didn't that cover this?

5:37 Why was there a deficit of $1367.34?

5:41 No, there was a deficit of $6,000.

5:44 Of $6,000?

5:46 Yes.

5:46 Because I had a path I was living upstate.

5:49 I had a Pathfinder and I the payments that were

5:52 due on the Pathfinder rolled over to THE HONDA.

5:55 OH, WAIT A MINUTE.

5:55 SO, HE'S NOT JUST CO-SIGNING.

5:57 Oh my god.

5:58 What is wrong with you, Mr.

5:59 Ortiz?

6:00 So, he's not just co-signing on the new purchase

6:02 that you can't afford and don't have CREDIT TO BUY.

6:04 HE'S also co-signing on the OLD PAYMENTS THAT YOU STILL HAVEN'T FINISHED PAYING.

6:09 How do you know that?

6:11 I don't know either.

6:12 Okay.

6:12 Well, you people have to seriously you guys need to open up your eyes

6:15 and and make because I'm worried some things going to run you over.

6:19 No.

6:19 Okay.

6:19 You guys need to pay attention to what you're doing.

6:22 So, when you find out that that's you found that out then,

6:24 right, after the car got stolen,

6:28 right?

6:27 Because you start getting phone calls.

6:29 Where's our money?

6:30 We'd like our money now.

6:31 Where's our money?

6:32 And then you tell them what?

6:34 Call her.

6:35 Really?

6:35 And they tell you, "No,

6:37 cuz she doesn't answer our calls and her credit

6:39 stinks and we got you on the hook, right?"

6:42 I told you keep calling her cuz I'm not going to answer.

6:44 MY CREDIT'S ALREADY THEY CAN sue you.

6:46 You know that.

6:46 And they can ruin your credit.

6:48 It was already.

6:48 SO YOU TELL HER TO GO DO WHAT?

6:51 To take care of it.

6:52 Then what do you do to try to take care of it?

6:54 I called the collection company and I came to a settlement.

6:58 Okay.

6:59 of $3,946 for 96.

7:04 Okay.

7:05 So, you work it out with them to come

7:06 to a settlement so that you don't have to pay 6,000.

7:08 You're paying 3,000 something.

7:10 All right.

7:10 You make a first payment of $2,500 towards that.

7:14 Yeah.

7:14 Okay.

7:14 So, you were short.

7:16 Yeah.

7:17 Okay.

7:17 So, we're in the car and he goes, "Okay, you put the $2,500 and I got the rest."

7:22 Okay.

7:22 And why haven't you paid him back?

7:25 Because when he said,

7:26 "I got the rest." I didn't think he was saying I'm lending you.

7:32 Because he didn't say lend.

7:34 Oh, you think that he meant that he would pay?

7:39 Not only have you gotten his credit messed up,

7:41 not only has he been on the on the with his head

7:44 on a chopping block for you for years,

7:46 but you believe that when he said that that that meant he was

7:50 going to eat $1,300 of your debt on the second to last car?

7:56 That's what you thought.

7:58 God, it sounds awful when I say it, right?

8:02 Yeah,

8:04 it does.

8:04 It Sounds aua is exactly but I'm not.

8:09 No, I'm not.

8:10 Really?

8:10 I think you need to give it a fresh look.

8:13 Because I think you are.

8:15 By the way, you have loan papers, right?

8:18 Yes.

8:18 Let me see the loan papers.

8:19 Just to clarify.

8:21 Do you think something needs clarifying, baby?

8:25 No.

8:23 No.

8:23 Okay.

8:24 The papers.

8:27 What's this?

8:30 I don't know.

8:31 Okay.

8:31 Is this your signature on it?

8:33 Can I see it?

8:34 Yeah.

8:34 Well, I don't know.

8:35 Me, when I signed a $1,300 loan agreement,

8:37 I sort of remember that kind of thing.

8:41 Yep.

8:41 That's your signature where you say you're gonna pay him back.

8:45 Okay.

8:45 I don't recall signing it, though.

8:47 NO, YOU I'M ALWAYS FORGETTING STUFF LIKE THAT.

8:49 You know, when I when I have a $6,000 rollover of my payments on my last car.

8:54 I forget that all the time when I sign a promisory note.

8:57 That kind of stuff.

8:57 I can't be expected to keep that in my head.

8:59 It's a lot of stuff.

9:00 No, it's a lot of stuff.

9:01 AND YOU KNOW, I GOT I GOT TO TELL YOU,

9:03 I I apparently I got to get a better class of friends

9:05 cuz not once have you tried to rein $1,300 on me, Douglas.

9:09 That's true.

9:09 What kind of friend are you?

9:10 I know.

9:10 I I got to rethink that.

9:12 Okay, Miss Hernandez.

9:13 Seriously,

9:14 there's more to the situation, but I But just forget about it.

9:19 What?

9:20 Just forget about it.

9:21 I'm not going to forget about it.

9:23 I'm going to rule against you because you have

9:25 absolutely no grounds to defend yourself on this one.

9:29 And the worst part about it is the person that you did it to is the one

9:33 person who is always there for you at every

9:38 turn in every one of your many problems,

9:43 which let me explain something to you, are not problems.

9:47 Trying to scam and keep a rent control apartment

9:49 in New York City is not a person in need.

9:52 Wanting to buy a car that's brand spanking new, that is not a friend in need.

9:57 Okay?

9:58 You need to redefine what a friend in need is.

10:01 Okay?

10:01 Because when you need her to pay you back, what's she saying?

10:04 Oh, that's just cuz he's got a wife now and his wife is putting him up to it.

10:08 She thinks she should just be able to continue

10:10 to not just rely on you, but scam you.

10:13 Okay?

10:14 And you have a responsibility now to your wife,

10:17 but mostly to yourself to open up your big brown beautiful eyes and realize

10:24 that in fact this was a one-way street because when it came time to it,

10:29 she didn't just look at you and say, "I'm so sorry.

10:30 I don't have the money.

10:31 Let me pay you $5 a week." She just nailed

10:35 you and was leaving you out to dry and didn't care.

10:39 That's a one-way street.

10:41 Verdict in this case is for the plaintiff.

10:43 Thank you.

10:47 Let's see what the defendant has to say.

10:49 I mean, you you know, you didn't look very good in there.

10:53 The case looks like you totally use that man.

10:55 What do you have to say in your own defense here?

10:57 I didn't use him.

10:58 Um, he's been a friend for many years.

11:02 There was a misconception in there and I didn't

11:04 get to say exactly what I wanted to say.

11:07 Now's your chance.

11:07 What's the misconception?

11:08 misconception is that we when we were in the car and I asked him,

11:17 "What happens if I can't pay this?" He told me, "Don't worry about it.

11:23 We'll talk about it." But I see him now after so many years.

11:27 All right.

11:28 Okay.

11:29 All right.

11:29 Sign your documents on our way out of courtroom.

11:31 And here he is.

11:33 How How tough is it for you to realize now

11:35 that um it was a one-way street all this time?

11:37 Well, the just talking about it made me realize it.

11:40 You know, she is a friend.

11:41 She was a friend.

11:42 How hard does this hit you?

11:43 Yeah.

11:44 Harder than before, honestly.

11:45 It's a It's like a wakeup call.

11:47 Mhm.

11:48 We're buddies now, right?

11:50 You got 100?

11:51 Yeah.

11:51 No, I'm short.

11:52 Oh, yeah.

11:53 Over to Harvey.

11:55 Okay.

11:55 The fact is when you cosign, you are basically telling the car company they can

11:59 choose to go after you or the person you're helping.

12:01 And let me just guarantee they're going to go after you.