Yahya Abdul Mateen II on WONDER MAN, MAN ON FIRE, WATCHMEN, leaving FURIOSA, CLIFF BOOTH, & more!

0:00 This is what I said.

0:00 I said, "This sounds like a great opportunity,

0:05 but I only get one Marvel dollar to spend." That's what I said.

0:10 I I told him.

0:10 I said, "I only get one dollar to spend,

0:12 and I want to make sure that I spend it well." So

0:16 that was really the question that I was I was asking him and I

0:19 wanted to have that conversation with him to say me saying yes is

0:24 a huge gamble because I really really really like what you all do.

0:31 So if this isn't the time for me to say yes,

0:35 let me know because I will sit to the side and wait until it makes sense.

0:41 Prepare your ears, humans.

0:42 Happy, sad, confused begins now.

0:48 Hey guys, it's Josh.

0:49 Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused.

0:51 Today on the show, it's Yaya Abdul Matin II with a look back at Wonderman,

0:56 a look forward with Man on Fire, and much, much more.

1:00 Hey guys, thanks as always for checking out the podcast.

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1:47 And we do have a bunch of live events, I should say, coming up,

1:50 including May 3rd in New York City with Charlie Cox,

1:54 May 5th in New York City with Stanley Tucci,

1:57 May 13th in Los Angeles with the Duffer brothers,

2:01 May 17th in New York City with Billy Iikner,

2:05 and we have one more I think we haven't announced yet.

2:07 I'm not going to say it just yet, but that's enough.

2:09 That's a lot and more to come.

2:11 Um, okay.

2:12 Let's talk about the main event.

2:13 It is Yaya Abdul Matin the second his second visit to the podcast.

2:16 The last time we chatted was 2019 and he had it

2:20 all happening then and he still does in a different way.

2:23 Back then it was a conversation about his role in Watchmen,

2:27 one of my favorite series of all time probably certainly in the last 10 years.

2:33 Uh, and no spoilers but Yaya has a very pivotal role in that series.

2:37 We talked about that in the last conversation.

2:39 He was on the eve of doing the second Aquaman movie, of doing the Matrix.

2:43 He had it all happening.

2:45 He ended up winning an Emmy for that role in Watchmen.

2:49 And this is a really cool conversation today because it's fun to kind of come

2:52 full circle and look back at where he was and where he is now.

2:55 Um, some really eyeopening insights into where he

2:57 was coming off of that Emmy win and questioning

3:00 himself and questioning whether what to chase and how

3:05 to chase it and whether he needed a break.

3:08 really a a candid conversation here about pulling

3:11 out of a major role in Furio Furiosa,

3:14 the Mad Max sequel, prequel, however you want to call it.

3:17 Um, but thankfully Yaya is in a great place now.

3:21 He's had an amazing run on Broadway and Top

3:23 Dog Underdog and now in television, two major shows.

3:28 So, you all know and love probably like me Wonderman.

3:32 One of the best Marvel shows I think probably

3:34 the best Marvel show I would say since W division.

3:37 Um, he killed it in that as did Sir Ben Kingsley.

3:40 He also has a new Netflix series out.

3:43 Man on Fire.

3:45 Yes, it is another adaptation of that story.

3:48 The iconic film starring Denzel Washington.

3:50 Big shoes to fill.

3:51 But Yaya is the man for the job.

3:54 Smart, confident, leading man, great actor, really fun conversation.

4:00 I'm so thrilled he came back back to the podcast for this chat.

4:04 Um, so yeah, without any further ado, here it is.

4:06 This is me and Yaya Abdul Matin II.

4:10 Enjoy.

4:12 Yaya, welcome back to the podcast, man.

4:14 It's been a it's been a long time.

4:16 Uh thankfully, you've been very busy making it easy

4:18 for me to have a chat with you today.

4:19 There's a lot to catch up on.

4:20 It's good to see catch up on, man.

4:21 It's good to be back with you.

4:23 I'm I'm sorry that we're not connecting in person in New York.

4:26 Um but honestly, for me,

4:28 it it's it's good cuz it reminds me

4:29 of my personal inadequacies as as a as a adult male.

4:33 I don't feel like a real functional human man next to you.

4:36 So

4:37 Oh, get out of here, man.

4:38 I don't want to hear I don't want to hear it.

4:39 Get out of here.

4:41 Uh yeah, I'm flattered.

4:43 How how how long have you been How long have you been in New York?

4:46 We talked in 2019.

4:47 Were you living in this?

4:48 I know you were shooting in the city then, but were you living here then?

4:51 Yeah, I've been in New York since um I came

4:53 to New York in 20 in the summer of 2015.

4:56 Uh yeah, summer summer 2015.

5:00 Okay.

5:00 So, why is why is New York the place for you versus LA?

5:03 You don't have to sell me on it.

5:04 I'm a lifelong New Yorker, but tell me why it's for you.

5:06 This is where my stuff is and uh it's kind of been that way.

5:10 You know what I mean?

5:10 Um I came here for the get down back in 2015

5:14 and um I remember my teacher said uh don't buy furniture.

5:21 That was her her her piece of advice for for for everyone,

5:24 you know, don't buy furniture because if you're working

5:27 meaning you might be itinerant, you might be moving,

5:29 you might be exactly that, you know,

5:31 like the couple years out of school, don't buy furniture.

5:34 And I didn't um and uh New York and

5:38 and it sort of worked that way.

5:40 It was it was great advice because I was bouncing all around

5:43 um all around the globe really.

5:44 I was really fortunate, you know, to come out,

5:47 hit the ground running, and then eventually I got some furniture

5:50 and uh and now I'm here because this is where my stuff is,

5:55 you know, relationships and things like that.

5:57 all, you know, as well.

5:58 A lot of great things happened over the last 10 years.

6:00 So, uh, for right now, I'm I'm uh still in New York.

6:04 Good.

6:04 Okay.

6:04 You earned earned not that you needed more points with me,

6:06 but that earns you special points with me.

6:09 All right.

6:10 So, we're going to cover a lot today cuz you've got two one recent show,

6:13 one like brand new show, both of which I've been watching.

6:16 I I watched all of Wonderman.

6:17 I've watched the first few of Man on Fire.

6:18 So, we're going to catch up on that and a lot of things.

6:21 Um, so like when you're out and about lately in Starbucks or whatever,

6:24 are you getting more Hey, Wonderman.

6:26 Hey, Black Manta.

6:26 What are you What are you getting lately for people that recognize you?

6:29 Yeah, people really really like Wonder Woman, man.

6:31 And and um you know, that was that's the most recent thing and um

6:36 it's just been a great conversation out there.

6:39 There's so many people who um you know gravitate

6:42 toward that project for all different types of reasons.

6:46 you know, I have um actors, musicians, um directors, writers,

6:52 um these people even outside of the business who

6:56 just relate to just having dreams and relate to being counted out and you know,

7:03 um being on that edge of figuring out whether or not they're going

7:06 to go for it or whether or not they're going to make a left turn.

7:09 And um it's really nice.

7:12 It's it's a really good energy out there right now.

7:14 It's It's uh you know, I'm not just saying this.

7:16 It's my best It's my favorite Marvel

7:18 series since the first one, since Wanda Vision.

7:20 You guys killed it.

7:21 It's like And I think I think it shares some DNA

7:23 in that in that like they both like if you look at it, you know,

7:27 they're like, sure, they're superhero shows,

7:28 but they're they're there they're there's so much I mean,

7:30 Wision was all about grief and and mental illness to a degree.

7:34 And this show is is just a it's like, you know,

7:37 it's a it's a relationship buddy bromance

7:42 Hollywood satire disguised as a superhero show.

7:44 And I think that's why it it is it is working.

7:46 And I and I have to say I'm so relieved

7:48 because I don't know how like it in it you were,

7:50 but like for those of us that cover this,

7:53 you know, it was kind of sitting there for a while.

7:54 We were like, when is it coming out?

7:56 Like and you start to worry.

7:58 You're like, what's what's did something happen with Wonderman?

8:00 And like I mean, were you aware of that, too?

8:02 Were you like I I thought we nailed it, but why are they not pushing it out?

8:06 Like, how were you kind of that?

8:08 I mean, uh uh really that stuff was uh above my pay

8:13 grade and it really wasn't my job to think about that.

8:15 That's the that's the honest truth about that.

8:17 But the second thing in that it was just a little bit

8:19 of a lesson is just um and this is actually came from Patrick Wilson.

8:25 um Patrick Wilson when I was doing the first Aquaman,

8:28 it was after I did Baywatch and he was asking me uh how

8:32 I felt about the movie and the movie had already come out and it

8:38 was like my recollection was it was like moderately wellreceived and it was

8:44 like sort of in the middle sort of like right down the middle,

8:47 you know what I mean?

8:48 And uh I remember telling him saying something like uh it was all right.

8:54 Like is is the answer that I gave him had more

8:58 to do with the reception of the film as opposed to my experience.

9:04 And he and he saw that and you know did now I'm two years out of school.

9:09 I'm two may maybe I'm I'm two years into the business.

9:12 and he's like, "Hey, don't make it a habit of of like

9:17 assessing your experience based on how something performs." Um,

9:22 and I um I latched on to that and I

9:26 had to go back and reflect and and I was like,

9:28 "Oh yeah, I actually had a really good time making that." So that's how it was.

9:32 Uh and it was the same thing for one man in this case.

9:35 Um, I didn't really think much about, you know,

9:39 when are they going to put it out uh or like why what's taking so long.

9:42 I had known that we had uh some some stops and starts due to the strike.

9:47 You know, the first time around it was the actor strike.

9:49 I think the second time around it was the writer strike if I'm not mistaken.

9:54 Uh so we dealt with those things.

9:55 So I um so I knew that it was going to be a while.

9:58 But um I also knew that um that the thing that I was

10:04 a part of uh I was excited to you know to give that away.

10:09 It's funny.

10:09 I mean first of all I love Patrick.

10:11 He's one of the good guys out there.

10:12 Like I I adore that guy and um that doesn't surprise

10:15 me that it has that kind of lesson to to impart.

10:18 But it also strikes me because like I was listening back to our conversation way

10:21 back when and then I was listening

10:23 to some recent conversations you've had and and I

10:25 find it so fascinating and I love how honest you've been about this kind

10:28 of the journey you've been on through your career

10:30 since cuz I talked to you in 2019

10:32 and it's all happening like you you got you're about to do Matrix,

10:36 you've got Watchmen like you're about to do 2 like you are high as a as a kite.

10:42 You're so thrilled.

10:43 You win the Emmy.

10:44 You win the Emmy for Watchmen as you should.

10:47 I won the Emmy before the conversation.

10:49 No, you hadn't won the Emmy yet,

10:50 but like you were back, but you were on the way, right?

10:52 So, you're so you're there

10:54 and then I hear these conversations with you like that you've recently had and I

10:59 find this so refreshing because I don't

11:01 think most actors would say what you've said.

11:03 You win the Emmy and what does it do for you?

11:05 Yaya.

11:06 Oh, I mean, what have I said in my in my in my in my interviews?

11:09 I probably

11:11 You're saying it it didn't didn't fulfill you.

11:13 It didn't do anything.

11:15 Yeah.

11:15 Yeah.

11:16 That's yeah that's that's consistent.

11:17 Um be and it's because look at what the world was at that time man.

11:22 I mean it was it was it was tough times in the world

11:25 even aside from the pandemic you know just there there were

11:29 some things going on in the world around the time where watchman

11:32 came out and you know um uh it was it was it

11:37 was the world was changing and and um it was just

11:42 challenging un is an understatement but it was challenging times and then

11:48 at that time at the height of the pandemic you know uh

11:51 I win this award I don't get to go to the, you know,

11:54 to the uh to the uh ceremony.

11:57 So, it's not like I was getting my pictures

11:59 taken and meeting people and things like that.

12:01 So, I never really got the high uh of it.

12:05 Um so the truth is that while I'm

12:10 deeply deeply appreciative of um that uh that award

12:16 that award which is right here by the way

12:19 actually just coincidentally it's just right here.

12:22 Just dropped that there.

12:24 No, but it's just right here on the like on the desk.

12:27 Uh like right there.

12:28 You have it tethered to you.

12:29 You walk around the treads right behind you.

12:32 It just happened to be right there.

12:33 Um but but that was such an important lesson,

12:36 you know, for me to to have that um beautiful experience,

12:40 but that humbling experience very very early on because

12:43 it did not feel me on the inside.

12:45 And I said, okay, um great to know.

12:48 And I wasn't expecting it to, but the way that it happened,

12:52 it was like, okay, great to know.

12:54 That's really great to know.

12:56 And so now I don't have to think about chasing any type of external validation.

13:03 always, you know, to be able to,

13:06 uh, be humble enough and gracious enough

13:07 to receive with real thanks, which I do.

13:11 Um, and and and I'm extremely proud of the work

13:13 and extremely proud of that accomplishment because that, you know,

13:16 that that's that's no that's no small feat.

13:19 Uh, but I but I'm able to understand it all in in context.

13:23 Um, and then keep on going.

13:25 But I als I also so respect the fact that like

13:28 around I don't know if I have quite the chronology right,

13:30 but like you also do something that most actors would not do.

13:34 You you take a break.

13:35 You say like I'm burnt I'm burnt out.

13:37 Like I I'm getting all these great opportunities.

13:40 I'm cast in Furiosa, George Miller's next film,

13:43 George Miller, the best like ultimate.

13:46 And you're and you know yourself enough to say

13:49 I'm not going to be able to deliver what I need to deliver.

13:51 I need for the long for the long run.

13:53 I need to take a break.

13:54 Yeah.

13:54 Absolutely.

13:55 That was um I I was I was honest, man.

13:58 You know, I like I said,

13:59 I I graduated from I graduated in 2015 and I had already been making

14:04 my trips from New Haven to uh New York to rehearse for The Get Down.

14:09 You know, my first big scene was uh 10 days after I graduated.

14:13 I'm shooting this big scene, this big disco scene in in Les Inferno.

14:17 So, I had the whole thing.

14:19 Yeah.

14:20 Yeah, man.

14:20 So, I started working.

14:22 Yeah.

14:22 And then from from The Get Down, I do um a movie called First Match.

14:28 And then First Match, I go do

14:33 um uh I go do uh another movie with uh Logan Lurman.

14:36 Uh uh uh Oh, City Hall.

14:39 I go do I go do uh Sydney Hall.

14:41 Thank you.

14:42 And then from there, I saw that at Sundance.

14:43 I remember that.

14:44 I go do Baywatch.

14:45 And then from Baywatch, I'm I'm all the way I'm doing Greatest Showman.

14:48 And I'm then I'm in Australia.

14:51 And then from Australia, I go to Canada to go do Handmaid's Tail.

14:55 And then from there, I go to Atlanta to go and do Watchmen.

14:58 Then I go to LA for a bit.

15:00 And then I go to Chicago.

15:02 Then I'm then I look up and I'm in New

15:04 York for a spell doing uh doing Trial of Chicago 7.

15:08 And then boom, pandemic.

15:09 And then I'm off to uh Berlin to San Francisco.

15:12 And then Berlin, right from Berlin, I come back,

15:16 I touch down a little bit and I forget what I do after that.

15:18 But then I'm back in London doing Aquaman 2.

15:21 And now it's 2021 by now and I'm tired, you know, tired listening to it.

15:28 And I'm I'm tired.

15:30 That was the journey.

15:30 And I know I left stuff.

15:31 I left out Brazil, you know, even in that I left out.

15:34 I would go to Brazil to do Black Mirror.

15:36 Now, all of these are uh um uh not sh I won't call them champagne problems,

15:42 but these are these are gifts.

15:44 These are these are blessings.

15:46 The you know, the entire way.

15:48 Um, but it it did come with something else which was

15:52 me just being very very tired and the world was changing.

15:56 The world was responding to me differently, you know,

15:59 just as a as this as a all of a sudden I'm

16:02 sort of some type of commodity and people are looking at me differently.

16:07 I'm just adjusting to this new reality at the same time as the world is

16:10 changing and then whatever else it was I had going on in my own personal life.

16:14 um and still having to persevere and perform.

16:18 And yeah, I'm I'm in I'm in uh I'm

16:22 in London and George Miller is he's on top of it.

16:28 He's already we're already on the phone and on Zooms one year

16:33 before the before the movie is going to is going to shoot.

16:36 Oh, I I know his process.

16:37 I know.

16:37 Yeah, it's deep.

16:38 And that was a and that was it wasn't overwhelming.

16:42 It was so cool.

16:47 Yeah, it was actually so cool because he loved it

16:49 and it was like the only thing that he

16:51 cared about and he made the time in his life to do that and he had his actors,

16:56 you know, involved in the process a year

17:00 ahead just having creative conversations and imaginative conversations.

17:05 And I knew deep down inside that uh it was too much and that I needed to rest.

17:12 So, you know, I'm so glad that I handled that um honestly, you know,

17:19 that that that that that I was honest about the, you know,

17:22 the way that I handled that.

17:24 Um because then I could separate myself

17:27 from that with integrity and let you know

17:29 another actor step in to do a fantastic job and bring everything that they had.

17:33 And also it allowed me to rest and rejuvenate and recalibrate and then wait,

17:38 keep continue saying no until the right thing showed up.

17:42 And that's when Top Dog underdog uh you know showed up.

17:46 So which which I know was a very meaningful very important experience.

17:49 Very meaningful for me to do that.

17:51 Yeah, it was a it was a dream role.

17:53 It was my dream role.

17:54 My first time coming back to uh going

17:56 back to theater and my first time on Broadway.

17:59 Um, and uh, and I needed that because one, I just loved it.

18:04 It felt like it was written for me

18:06 and it was a challenge to remind me that like,

18:09 hey, you're, you know, you're pretty good at this thing.

18:12 Don't forget, you know, now go and go and work and go and earn it.

18:16 And boy, did we ever go after that forund and something plus shows.

18:21 Um,

18:21 that was that was a hot ticket.

18:22 I missed you, buddy.

18:23 You need to get back on the stage.

18:24 That was that was that was you and Cory, right?

18:26 Cory, myself and Cory Hawkins.

18:27 Yeah.

18:28 And then but lastly, just to bring that home, yeah,

18:31 that warmed me up for Wonderman.

18:35 That got me that got me conditioned and in shape.

18:37 When I had the first conversation with Sir Ben Kingsley, I was on stage.

18:41 It was it was in between shows, you know,

18:43 when I had my first meeting with Sir Ben Kingsley and we talked,

18:46 you know, a little bit about the show and, you know,

18:48 my appreciation for theater and his appreciation

18:50 for theater and things like that.

18:52 So, I walked off the stage to Wonderman,

18:54 had a little uh about a few weeks to like get myself together,

18:59 and then I went to work on uh on uh

19:02 I mean uh off the stage for Top Dog Underdog,

19:07 and had a couple weeks to get myself uh you know,

19:10 together, went to work to Wonderman.

19:12 And all of that is is starting to happen when I when I'm honest and when I say,

19:17 you know, thank you, but no thank you

19:21 to uh Mad Max.

19:22 And look how it's all played out.

19:24 Lot lots of lessons there.

19:25 And I'm sure you earned some credit with Sir Ben saying,

19:27 "I'm I'm walking off the stage of this prestigious show.

19:30 Like, I'm not just a Marvel superhero guy, man.

19:32 I'm I got the I got the goods."

19:34 Yeah, for sure.

19:36 We'll be right back with more Happy, Sad, Confused.

19:45 All right, guys.

19:45 Spring is here and before you know it, it's going to be summer.

19:47 And I don't know about you, but time is absolutely flying by.

19:49 My daily schedule is totally out of control,

19:52 even as I want to prioritize my health.

19:53 And honestly, Hule has been a lifesaver for me.

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21:24 So, talk to me a little bit.

21:25 I know I know Destin was also like a huge

21:27 factor if not the factor in working on this one.

21:30 He's an exceptional filmmaker.

21:32 Um, talk to me a little bit cuz I know we talked way back when you had

21:36 I know you'd at least like been in the Marvel

21:38 sphere like you you went up for Ibaku,

21:39 your buddy Winston ended up getting that one and Black Panther.

21:42 Was that the one only Marvel role you had ever kind of seriously discussed?

21:46 Yeah, that was Yeah, that was the only one cuz after that

21:50 um Black Manta was was there uh very very shortly after that.

21:55 Got it.

21:56 So, when this one comes around,

21:58 like is it an easy like what's the pitch from Destin?

22:02 Like, I mean, it sounds like it was you didn't

22:04 really I don't want to put words in your mouth,

22:06 but it wasn't like you didn't care that this wasn't

22:08 let it be like a full-on superhero role.

22:09 You just wanted that experience of working with him,

22:12 someone like that, that's that that's not exactly true.

22:15 Um, uh, I forget what the pitch was.

22:19 Uh, let me try to remember.

22:22 Uh, but the pitch was it was something like, you know,

22:25 this this, you know, they're going to do it kind of differently.

22:28 You know, Destin is going to shoot it like he shoots his indies.

22:31 It's going to feel, you know, kind of different.

22:33 We're not kind of go after the big superhero thing.

22:36 And this guy cares about acting.

22:38 He cares about the craft.

22:39 And, you know, he may be, you know, he's a little strange.

22:43 And, you know, uh, uh, but, you know, we think that he's relatable.

22:46 we would love to have someone who cares about who's passionate

22:50 about acting and maybe even the theater and the craft and XYZ.

22:54 Those were the sort of the the details.

22:56 And I'm listening, I'm like, "This sounds good.

22:58 This sounds good.

22:59 This sounds good.

23:00 Uh, and I would love to work with Destin because Dustin has a has a great vibe.

23:04 Um, but I need to speak to Kevin."

23:07 And it was like, "Well, maybe, you know, maybe, you know,

23:10 Kevin's busy." And I'm like, "I need to speak to Kevin

23:15 cuz you want the big picture.

23:16 you want.

23:17 I wanted I wanted to have a conversation with him to say like

23:21 not necessarily where is this going to go.

23:23 I didn't flat out ask that question,

23:26 but um I wanted to know like I said, hey man, this is what I said.

23:32 I said, "This sounds like a great opportunity,

23:37 but I only get one Marvel dollar to spend." That's what I said.

23:41 I I told him I said I only get $1 to spend

23:44 and I want to make sure that I spend it well.

23:47 So that was really the question that I was I

23:50 was asking him and I wanted to have that conversation

23:52 with him to say me saying yes is a huge

23:57 gamble because I really really really like what you all do.

24:02 Right.

24:03 So, if this isn't the time for me to say yes,

24:06 let me know because I will sit to the side and wait until it makes sense.

24:12 And

24:13 2029, next Iron Man, I'm ready for you.

24:15 I'll wait.

24:16 I'll wait because I really really dig what they do.

24:19 So, I didn't want to play myself small, you know.

24:22 Um, so I I I I remember that.

24:27 Uh, you know, my guys were like, you know, maybe he's,

24:30 you know, maybe he's busy or or not necessarily he's busy,

24:32 but they were just saying like, you know,

24:34 that's a like, bro, you know, this is a big deal.

24:38 And I'm like, I need to speak to Kevin.

24:41 And Kevin, so what did he say?

24:42 He he let me know that uh that it'll be a dollar well spent, you know.

24:47 Okay.

24:47 And we talked and I told him some of the things that I wanted to do.

24:50 And I said and said, and you know,

24:51 Kevin, I said, people don't know that I'm funny.

24:54 And when I did that, I remember I remember he said he did like that.

24:57 He said yes.

24:59 I don't know what he saw that let him know that I

25:01 was funny that that had some had some comedy out there,

25:03 but I said people don't know that I'm funny.

25:06 He says yes.

25:06 And that's what I wanted to let people know

25:08 and show some colors and then every it was just fantastic.

25:11 It was just it was just really really fantastic.

25:14 But I did it was very important for me to make it count.

25:19 It and you made it count.

25:19 I mean, you and Sir Ben have gotten amazing reviews on this and it's like,

25:23 look, it's gonna it's going to get a justifiable awards run.

25:26 I hope you guys both receive it.

25:27 Not that it's all as we know from the Emmy, so it's not what it's about,

25:30 but it's it's nice it's nice to be like in that conversation.

25:33 Um, and now like it's been it's been green lit for season 2,

25:37 which isn't happening a lot in the Marvel TV universe, as you know.

25:41 So, like, are you in Destiny like talking already?

25:44 Do you know what the the plan is?

25:45 Roughly, we haven't had we haven't had conversations yet.

25:47 He's probably in Spider-Man World and I and I'm in, you know,

25:51 I'm in uh I'm working on a film that I'm about to uh

25:55 start in in a couple weeks and uh Man on Fire is coming out,

25:59 you know, in a couple weeks.

26:01 So, I'm I'm sort of working on what I'm working on.

26:03 Um but yeah, the band is the band is getting back together as they say,

26:07 and I trust that they're going to, you know,

26:09 that they're going to do what they have to do.

26:11 I have my ideas and my the things that I would love to, you know,

26:14 to do and the places I would love to see Simon Williams go.

26:18 Um, but I'm going to see what they offer first and and then

26:21 Okay.

26:22 Any anything you want to soft launch here today?

26:24 Anything you want to secret out into the universe today with me in terms of what

26:28 what you want to see for Simon going forward?

26:30 Yeah, I want to see um Yeah, I I I'll say it.

26:35 You know what's what's so interesting about Simon is

26:38 that we get to see Simon before he's a star.

26:42 You know, we get to see him while he's uh dreaming for everything that he wants.

26:50 What's interesting to me is to see what happens when he finally gets

26:54 it because we haven't really we haven't really we haven't really seen that.

26:58 you know, the first thing that he does is he says,

27:00 "Okay, I'm gonna go and get my and, you know,

27:02 break and use this to sort of break my friend out." But like

27:05 what happens when he really gets a little bit of, you know,

27:09 fame and notoriety and attention and when he can,

27:12 you know, make changes on the on the script

27:15 and when he gets a little bit of power.

27:17 That's that's actually what I'm saying.

27:19 That's that's that's listen to him.

27:22 Yes.

27:22 Like what is he going to become?

27:25 Have we created a monster?

27:27 And I'm like, yeah, I think like I think I think so a little bit.

27:34 I think I think it's cool to watch somebody want something

27:37 and they become a star and then you got to let him

27:40 rise rise as high as he can go and and and and let

27:44 him let him get burnt by the sun a little bit.

27:46 Uh, but his ascent is is uh is is pretty exciting for me,

27:52 you know, when I think about I don't want to put you on the couch,

27:54 but you might be talking about your own story here.

27:57 What happens when Yaya actually gets the success,

28:00 gets the accolades, gets the Emmy?

28:03 How do you deal with that?

28:04 I'm talking about I think I'm I think I'm doing well, man.

28:07 I'm I'm u I'm pretty chill.

28:09 Um, I'm pretty chill,

28:11 but that's it's my job to play chill and not to add any theatrics to to my life.

28:18 Um, I get to I get to do the crazy stuff through Simon, you know.

28:24 I get to like, you know, yeah, run from the paparazzi and I get to like

28:30 wear my dark shades indoors and, you know,

28:33 because I don't want people to see me and, you know,

28:36 be worried about the fame and want more f I get

28:39 to do all of that through Simon and uh and you know,

28:43 sometimes I think that's what people sort of want to see.

28:46 You know, I go to the grocery store and people say,

28:49 "Why are you here?" I'm like, "Yo, I'm just I'm just shopping." like I'm

28:54 just I'm just getting some eggs just like you.

28:57 But sometimes I feel like people would prefer if I just put my shades on and you

29:02 know drive around in my fast car and uh

29:05 you know create a little bit of distance.

29:08 I'll I'll let Simon do that.

29:11 That sounds healthier if in the long run for you.

29:13 Yeah.

29:13 In the long run, right?

29:15 Yeah.

29:15 Let's let's give some love to Man on Fire, man.

29:17 You you don't always have to just inherit

29:19 the roles of icons like Lawrence Fishburn and Denzel Washington.

29:23 Dude, you're making you're setting the bar high for yourself.

29:27 I could make my life a whole lot easier if Right.

29:30 Right.

29:30 Could this is what I'm saying.

29:33 Um, man, you know, that's that's it's a couple things.

29:35 One, that's that that's what's out there right now.

29:37 There's the, you know, that's

29:39 I still got to work, you know, just like everybody else, you know.

29:42 So, there's a there's a that's a part of the business

29:45 model and some of the things that are working right now.

29:47 Um, but I also don't mind, you know,

29:50 if it's good enough stepping into it and seeing seeing what I could do.

29:53 These are iconic uh characters and iconic roles played by uh iconic actors.

30:00 And so, um, I look at this no different than I look at Hamlet.

30:05 You know, he's a Shakespearean character

30:07 and several people have, you know, uh, uh,

30:10 walked the boards playing that character and now I get

30:13 to go and give my interpretation of the Creasy character.

30:17 um I would do myself a huge disservice to try to put

30:20 myself in competition or in comparison to any of those other actors.

30:24 So I don't make that a part of my process.

30:27 Um that's a lose it's it's a losing

30:29 game because they've already set the bar high.

30:32 Uh so I like to approach it with with a with a respect

30:36 for the past but also with a sort of optimism

30:40 in terms of what it is that I could you know

30:42 bring to the bring to the cannon of those of those characters.

30:45 And that's been serving that's been serving me well.

30:48 What really impressed me in what I've seen so far of Man on Fire, um

30:52 the scale of this is pretty epic.

30:55 I mean, the action is probably the most

30:57 physically taxing I would imagine that you've done.

31:00 And we're talking TV, but it the scale is huge.

31:02 Episode two, there is a sequence.

31:05 I don't even know if I can describe it.

31:07 It's kind of a car chase turn,

31:09 plane chase turns fight that would be a setpiece in any summer Yeah.

31:15 blockbuster.

31:16 Yeah.

31:16 Yeah.

31:16 We won.

31:17 What's that like for you?

31:17 I mean, you're you're in pretty good shape to say the least,

31:19 but that seems like a

31:20 It hurt.

31:21 It Yeah, it hurt.

31:22 I I paid for it, you know.

31:24 Uh

31:25 yeah, this one was physically This one was physically taxing, stretching, icing.

31:28 This is the I got one of those um

31:30 TIMS machines where you put the stickers on and you

31:33 give yourself like the electro stimulation and all

31:36 of that stuff like yeah I I definitely paid for this.

31:39 It's more physical.

31:40 Plus I'm getting I'm getting older.

31:42 I'm 39 now.

31:43 I remember when when we when we did the first Aquaman

31:46 I think Jason was 39 and he told me he said um

31:52 he said use your uh he said you're doing everything

31:55 on your own now cuz he saw me just doing all my stuff.

31:58 He says, he says, "You're doing everything on your own now,

32:01 but uh use your stunt man." He said, "Use your stunt man so that in 10 years,

32:05 you know, your body's not wrecked." You know what I mean?

32:08 And so from then, I have no qualms about using my, you know,

32:11 about using my stunt guys.

32:12 And I let them, you know, go to work cuz they're the experts.

32:15 Um, but man, this this show, you talk about the scale of it.

32:19 We, Stephen and I, we talked about trying to like

32:23 trying to make a movie while we were shooting.

32:25 Yes.

32:26 So, you know, while we were shooting his episodes for sure, we said, "Look, man,

32:29 let's let's try to do this like a movie um and we tried and we,

32:34 you know, had so much support from uh from uh Netflix and um and yeah, yeah.

32:39 Yeah.

32:39 This this the the scale of it is the scale of it is huge,

32:42 but that's necessary in order to let

32:44 everyone understand the stakes and then we can

32:46 sort of zoom in as we move forward and get a little bit more intimate.

32:50 You've got um as always, just like our last conversation,

32:53 you got a lot going on.

32:54 I could I could I could dig in for about

32:56 an hour on The Adventures of Cliff Booth.

32:58 I there's no movie I'm more excited about than than this.

33:01 For those that don't know,

33:02 and everybody listening or watching probably knows, this is

33:05 Fincher, Tarantino script, Brad Pitt reprising the Cliff Booth role.

33:10 Just pour it into my eyeballs.

33:12 I'm ready for this.

33:13 Um, tell me what was the process of getting it?

33:17 Are you auditioning for Finchure?

33:18 Was it hard to get?

33:19 Like what was what was that about?

33:20 Oh man, you asked you asked the right you asked the right question.

33:24 You didn't ask a question about like the story about uh

33:29 I could I'll go there if you want me to.

33:31 No, no, no.

33:31 You you asked like probably the one question that I can talk about.

33:36 Um but since it's since I don't know if I can then

33:41 I then I kind of can't I kind of can't go there.

33:44 But that's a but that but that's a that's a good point.

33:47 You can't talk about the audition process.

33:49 Well, look, man.

33:50 I'm I'm I have to be safe these I I I

33:53 I got to play it safe these days because uh yeah,

33:56 I got to be I got to play it safe these days.

33:59 You've been in a Matrix movie.

34:00 You've been in Aquaman and I've never heard you clam

34:03 up more than talking about what does Finger have on you?

34:06 He Yeah.

34:07 Yeah.

34:08 Yeah.

34:08 Uh he's got the goods, man.

34:10 He's got the goods.

34:12 But broadly speaking, that's got to be a bucket list moment.

34:15 I mean, for all those reasons, did it live up to the expectations,

34:19 the the lore of working for someone like Fenture?

34:24 You know, the trailer was dope.

34:26 The trailer was dope and and I am in the movie.

34:31 That's what I That's what I can say because you saw me in the trailer, you know.

34:34 Okay.

34:35 Well, we'll have another chat.

34:36 We'll have another chat at some point.

34:37 Fair enough.

34:38 I respect you.

34:40 Um, we talked a little bit at the outset of of Watchmen.

34:43 Uh, I'm just curious like are you happy that it was obviously a oneanddone?

34:48 It's the singular wonderful experience.

34:51 I love the way it ended with you seemingly passing off the powers to Regina.

34:56 Did you like the ending?

34:57 Do you like that it stands kind of on its own as this singular thing?

35:01 I do.

35:01 I really do.

35:02 Um, I wanted to come back because even

35:07 though it's I'm like what happened to him?

35:08 But I'm like, nah, you know,

35:10 they can figure it out and now, you know, I'll be back.

35:11 I really really wanted to come back um because it it there

35:16 was so much good will toward that show and the writing was good.

35:20 I read those episodes like I was like I was watching it.

35:24 I mean that was it was so boys that was

35:30 the first time that I had had worked on television.

35:33 Well, no I've been really fortunate in television but I remember that one

35:36 stood out in a way where I was just excited just to read them.

35:40 not even looking for for for what I would do,

35:42 but just to read um as it unfolded, you know.

35:46 Um and I was excited about the idea of it coming back,

35:50 especially to see what Regina would do with, you know,

35:52 those powers and and and things like that, the powers that were sort of implied.

35:57 But I also really really respect the heck out

35:59 of Damon uh for how he um apparently respectfully

36:05 declined uh because it took a lot it takes a lot of integrity to go out to tell

36:10 the story that you want to tell uh to understand

36:13 that there's a huge demand for more and then

36:16 to say hey I've already I understand that but I've

36:19 already told the story that I wanted to tell.

36:22 So uh I really really respect that and I think that that allows the performance

36:29 of myself and my colleagues uh uh to really

36:32 stand out there and really hold up over, you know, over time.

36:36 So, it sort of keeps it as a sort of an iconic piece of art, you know.

36:41 Yeah.

36:41 You'll be happy to know it's it's come up

36:42 a lot on this podcast with folks I I talked to.

36:45 I sometimes I'll ask Yeah.

36:46 Sometimes I'll ask folks like their favorite like comic book project, etc.,

36:50 and you think they're going to go Batman or something,

36:51 but like Jennifer Lawrence is like, "You know what was great?

36:54 Watchmen.

36:54 That's the best comic book thing I've ever seen.

36:56 Like that's Yeah, I should go back and watch that some.

36:59 I haven't watched that in years and I think I've only watched it once.

37:03 Um but I should go and and check it

37:05 out now that I've gotten some distance away from it.

37:08 There there was some talk, speaking of Damon,

37:10 I love love me some Damon Lindelof.

37:12 There was some talk.

37:12 Come on.

37:13 There was some talk of the Damon Lindelof Star

37:15 Wars project that you were going to be involved.

37:18 Yeah.

37:18 I never got a whiff.

37:21 No.

37:21 I I I I never got a whiff of that ever.

37:24 Not not even once.

37:25 Never got a never had a conversation.

37:27 Never had a phone call.

37:29 Okay.

37:28 I just saw that one day.

37:30 I was like, "Oh, that was pro.

37:32 I probably probably saw that during the time

37:33 when I was saying no to everything." So,

37:35 I was probably saying, "Man, that would be a nice job." You know what I mean?

37:38 But no, never even got a whip.

37:41 You didn't text and be like, "Uh, anything there, boss?

37:43 Got something for me?" I know better than that, man.

37:46 I know better than that.

37:49 Yeah, man.

37:50 More happy sad confused coming up.

37:59 All right, guys.

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39:41 quint.com/happysad.

39:44 So coming full circle a bit.

39:47 It's been about you said you shot get down in 2015.

39:50 I was going to say it's been about 10 years of the career.

39:52 I mean 10 11 years now.

39:54 Yeah 10 years.

39:54 little little self assessment like you've you've learned some

39:58 lessons through folks like Patrick Wilson and knowing yourself

40:01 but like you've you hit the ground running man

40:04 you look look at the body of the work the first 10 years you got to be proud

40:07 are you goal oriented at this point if not

40:09 awards at this point how are you challenging yourself

40:12 the next decade what are you looking to accomplish

40:14 that's a great question I think the uh the first decade it took a decade

40:18 to just to just get the to really just get the lay of the land.

40:28 Yeah.

40:27 You know, uh it is there's a lot going out

40:30 there going on out there in the business and you know,

40:32 uh a lot of people have sort of uh

40:37 there's been es and flows in the last 10 years,

40:40 you know, for uh several uh artists, myself included.

40:44 And I'm really fortunate to still, you know,

40:46 be working in a way where there's a demand for my work.

40:48 Uh, but moving forward, what I'm excited about doing is beginning to take

40:52 all of that experience and to tell my own stories.

40:56 You know, I have a production company now.

40:58 I've had it for the last 5 years.

41:00 We've been quietly uh quietly running and developing

41:03 and it takes takes a long time to develop things,

41:06 but we've been putting together some,

41:08 you know, some really uh classy projects um that I'm

41:12 really excited to tell and excited to advocate for.

41:15 Um, so I think then the next iteration is really about um telling my telling

41:22 my own stories uh whether I'm writing

41:24 or whether I'm developing them up from the ground

41:26 as a as a producer and really you know making sure that I'm a part of the vision

41:30 from from the beginning and then as I

41:32 do that to create opportunities for other actors,

41:35 other writers, other storytellers, you know, to uh to come, you know,

41:39 into our uh sandbox so to speak and uh you know,

41:42 play in our play in our playground.

41:44 There's a there's so many talented artists out there.

41:47 So many uh talented people who um who just just need a shot, you know,

41:52 who really just need a push and who

41:54 really just need someone to advocate, you know.

41:56 So things like uh the Emmy, things like,

41:59 you know, being surrounded in the awards conversations,

42:02 you know, for Watchmen and I mean for uh for Wonderman,

42:05 excuse me, and what have you.

42:06 All of those things.

42:08 Um there's there's a lot of value in that because I

42:10 get to then you know use that to you know elevate

42:13 the work that I'm doing but also to then vouch for other

42:16 artists and things like that to put them in a position also.

42:18 So um this this next phase is about sort of saying what I want to say

42:23 taking up space in that way and um

42:25 and growing with other you know likewise artists and there must be so many folks

42:30 on that list of folks you want to collaborate with.

42:32 I know there was producing there was something you

42:34 going to produce with Michael B at some point.

42:35 to see you guys mix it up.

42:37 You obviously auditioned for Cougler way back when.

42:40 I'd love to see you and your Bay Area, you know,

42:42 friend Ryan Cougler collaborate like those guys on the list,

42:45 others on the list that you're itching to mix it up with.

42:48 Sure.

42:48 I'd love to uh I'd love to work with them.

42:50 I'd love to get back with uh Nia D Costa

42:52 and you know to find find something to, you know, to uh work on with Nia.

42:56 Um Winston Duke is extremely talented.

43:00 I know he's like he's uh I think he's doing a little bit of television,

43:02 but he's also got Embaku uh you know, still going on.

43:06 But he's another one of the those actors

43:07 out there who um everybody knows that he's talented.

43:11 People don't know how talented he is.

43:14 Yeah.

43:13 Uh and so I'm always like rooting for him and secretly

43:17 and he's good at moving furniture, too.

43:18 He's good at moving uh folks out of their places.

43:22 Yeah.

43:22 Didn't he help you with that way back when?

43:23 Yeah.

43:23 But he's al No, but he he's also he's also got home.

43:26 He's also set um set roots I think somewhere and uh

43:31 I'm not gonna say where but he's he's uh set roots.

43:33 He's in the vicinity.

43:34 He's around.

43:35 He's got a beautiful home.

43:36 Uh but yeah, I think that was was that just a call back from like the earlier

43:40 days at earlier days at Yale when I

43:42 was helping him move into into his apartment.

43:45 Yeah.

43:45 Yes.

43:45 Yeah.

43:45 Yeah.

43:45 Yeah.

43:46 That's good stuff.

43:46 That's good stuff.

43:47 That's good stuff.

43:48 But yeah, man, there's tons of uh tons of actors and you know,

43:51 writers out there who I want to, you know, work with.

43:53 There's a cat.

43:54 Um Tom Paca who I wor who uh who's done some Broadway stuff.

43:59 Uh he was nominated for Tony I think a couple years back.

44:02 Uh we we we uh went to school together.

44:05 Um he's like one of my favorite actors out there.

44:07 So there's there's so many people out there uh working actors, writers,

44:13 uh artists who are just looking for a push um

44:18 and who who I know they're just on their way,

44:21 you know, and I want to make sure that I'm a part of, you know,

44:23 what they'll have going, you know, going on.

44:26 And um I think it's really it's it's a great way

44:28 to to to collaborate in this in this industry is to it, you know,

44:32 we're so nomadic that it it's nice to work with people who, you know,

44:36 who feel like friends and who feel like family,

44:38 you know, and there's a couple good models out there.

44:41 Mike and Cougler are doing it.

44:42 You got um Matt uh and uh Ben, you know, they do it with their company.

44:48 Um and you know, you know,

44:49 they're I'd love to be able to do it, you know, for myself as well.

44:54 All right, we're gonna end with this.

44:55 the happy, sick, confused, profoundly random questions.

44:58 Ready for this, Yaya?

44:59 Yeah.

44:59 Let's go.

45:00 I'm not I'm not ready, but you know, I'm ready.

45:02 You're ready.

45:02 You got this.

45:03 This is the first time I've seen you uneasy the whole time since I know.

45:06 I'm like shoulders are going up.

45:08 I'm like, "Okay, what's going on?" Uh, dogs or cats?

45:13 Dogs, man.

45:13 I got a giant schnowzer in the next next room.

45:16 His name's Buddy.

45:17 He's amazing.

45:18 Dogs.

45:18 Although I come from a family that had cats, too.

45:23 Uh, but today for the sake of my guy, dogs.

45:27 I I say this to everybody that's a dog lover like myself.

45:29 You have you're cordially invited to my other show.

45:31 Yay.

45:32 I do a show now with with actors

45:34 and their dogs where we just hang out with our dogs.

45:37 Do you really?

45:38 I do.

45:38 I swear to God.

45:39 It's called Who's a Good Guest?

45:40 Patrick Wilson's been on it.

45:42 What kind of dog Patrick's got?

45:44 Patrick's got a bunch.

45:45 He's got rescues.

45:46 He's got mixes.

45:47 He's got the whole thing.

45:48 He brought one of them.

45:49 All right.

45:50 We got to make it happen.

45:51 We got to make it happen.

45:52 Look, my guy is a star.

45:53 He's a star.

45:55 I've heard this before.

45:56 I've heard this from all my guys.

46:01 But in your case, Yeah.

46:02 I'm sure it's true.

46:03 I'm sure it's true.

46:05 I can vouch for my guy.

46:07 He's a star.

46:08 He's a star.

46:09 Like, he's a star.

46:09 I can't wait to meet him.

46:10 I can't wait.

46:11 Yeah.

46:12 Uh, what do you collect, if anything?

46:14 What do I collect?

46:16 Uh, I I I don't know.

46:25 I don't know if I collect any.

46:26 I don't know if I if I seriously collect uh anything.

46:32 You know what I just got?

46:33 I just uh it's it's I I would have to get up to go uh away, but I won't do that.

46:38 I'll stay in frame.

46:39 I just purchased a compass.

46:41 It's uh from 1918.

46:44 Um and it is my um one of my newest fascinations.

46:49 Uh it's from uh uh world world war I uh

46:54 and um it is um my way of check this out.

47:04 It's my way of uh connecting to my family and the people

47:08 that I love because I naturally have a tendency to place them here, right?

47:16 like in my mind when I think about them like oh think about my mom

47:20 think my sisters you know um my family people that I

47:25 love and I put them here but my compass is my reminder

47:28 that they're not here they're out there somewhere so as long

47:31 as I know where I'm at in the world then I can

47:33 say oh you know this person that I really love somewhere

47:38 out there and I can send my love out into the world

47:41 instead of sort of you know having that having them sort

47:45 of in my mind so it's sort my reminder that we're all here

47:49 on this planet together.

47:51 Uh and and uh and that makes me feel not so

47:54 alone sometimes in this world where I'm incredibly nomadic in you know.

47:58 So uh I've got a compass and I think that compasses are

48:01 going to be are going to be are going to be a thing.

48:05 That's a beautiful answer.

48:06 I love that.

48:07 Now I need some maps.

48:08 So now I've got a compass and now I've got to collect some maps, right?

48:11 I'm going to see you wandering around New York.

48:12 Not not on an iPhone, Google Maps with a compass.

48:14 Like where where am I?

48:16 Yeah, I'll take it real extreme, man.

48:18 I'll take it real extreme.

48:20 Yeah.

48:21 Do you have a favorite video game of all time?

48:25 Uh, I think Blitz.

48:26 NFL Blitz is uh I don't know if it's called NFL Blitz,

48:30 but we just call it Blitz.

48:31 It's so nostalgic.

48:33 I used to play that with my cousins and with my uncle.

48:37 Um, I would say Blitz, NFL Blitz.

48:39 Okay.

48:40 Okay.

48:40 Forgive me.

48:41 This is the Dakota Johnson memorial question.

48:42 She asked me this.

48:43 I am I have to ask everybody this.

48:45 Would you rather have a mouth full of bees or one bee in your butt?

48:50 I take the mouth full of bees.

48:55 Okay, we'll leave it there.

48:56 Leave it there.

48:57 Um, what's the wallpaper on your phone?

49:04 Ah, it's a Bible verse.

49:06 It's Romans 12 and2 and it says, "Be ye not conformed to this world,

49:11 but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind." uh that you

49:15 may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

49:24 Lovely.

49:25 Yeah.

49:25 Lovely.

49:25 And uh what's the worst note a director has ever given you?

49:33 Uh I can't give you that note.

49:35 I can't I can't tell you that cuz if I tell you, you're going to know who it is.

49:39 Uh, yeah.

49:41 I can't tell you that unfortunately because if I tell you,

49:45 you're going to know who it is.

49:47 Is does it end with and it's because I'm Michael[ __] Bay.

49:50 That's why.

49:53 No.

49:53 Michael Michael says uh Michael Michael he says I got a guy for that.

49:58 That's what he says.

49:59 Like I got a guy for that.

50:00 No matter what the problem is, just do it.

50:02 Just do it.

50:03 I got a guy for that.

50:04 And doing post.

50:07 That's his thing.

50:07 Well, just do it.

50:08 Just go.

50:09 Go, go.

50:09 We'll do it in post.

50:13 One of my proudest achievements, I was on set of one of his movies and he yelled

50:16 at me through a megaphone and I was like, I made it.

50:18 Michael Bay just Mike is a star, man.

50:21 He was He's a He's a He's a star.

50:24 I work with Mike again in a heartbeat any day of the week.

50:26 Yeah.

50:27 Yeah.

50:27 He knows what he's doing.

50:28 He's one of one.

50:30 Um, buddy, it's been too long.

50:31 Congratulations on everything.

50:33 Wonderman, Man on Fire, and so much more.

50:36 Um, I appreciate you always.

50:38 Hopefully I'll see you out and about in New

50:39 York and perhaps with our dogs next time.

50:41 We'll see.

50:41 I'll take you I will take you up on that.

50:43 I I'll I will find the time for that.

50:46 I appreciate Appreciate you.

50:48 Thank you.

50:48 No doubt.

50:48 All right.

50:49 Thanks, man.

50:52 Peace.

50:52 And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused.

50:56 Remember to review, rate,

50:57 and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts.

51:01 I'm a big podcast person.

51:02 I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't doed this by Josh.