Martin Sheen & Dule Hill reunite to talk THE WEST WING, favorite episodes, & more!

0:00 We didn't know if we could do a political

0:03 show with a Democratic uh president with a liberal

0:08 agenda and sell cars and prescription drugs

0:13 and insurance and all the things that advertise shows.

0:17 We just were not sure that that would happen.

0:20 And that was the greatest surprise and the greatest satisfaction is

0:23 that it had a an appeal across the board to Republicans,

0:28 Democrats, old, young, rich, and poor.

0:30 It didn't matter.

0:31 People were intrigued by the the show.

0:34 And I think what it basically taught people is that we're all in this together.

0:39 Prepare your ears, humans.

0:40 Happy, sad, confused begins now.

0:46 Hey guys, it's Josh.

0:47 Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused.

0:48 Today, a very special episode.

0:50 We are celebrating one of the great shows of all time,

0:53 The West Wing with the legend that is Martin Sheen and Dule Hill.

0:58 Uh, thanks guys, as always,

0:59 for checking out the podcast and joining us on YouTube, on Spotify.

1:02 Remember to hit that subscribe button if you haven't already.

1:05 Uh, this is a really cool one.

1:06 A live event we taped in Chicago just the other day at C2E2,

1:10 reuniting two of the key cast members of one of the all-time great shows,

1:14 as I said, Aaron Sorcin, The West Wing.

1:17 We'll get to that in just a second.

1:18 Before this West Wing celebration, I do want to mention, as always,

1:23 we have a lot of exciting things coming up on Happy,

1:25 Sad, Confused, including live events uh just in a few days.

1:30 Actually, as I tape this, if you're watching this on April

1:34 9th and you happen to be in Miami tomorrow,

1:37 there might still be some tickets available for April

1:39 10th's event with Matt Bmer at the Miami Film Festival.

1:42 So, if you happen to be watching, you're in Miami.

1:44 Couple tickets still available.

1:46 Check it out.

1:47 Then next week, I'm back in New York, uh, talking to the cast of Beef.

1:50 That's Oscar Isaac, Carrie Mulligan, Charles Melton.

1:53 April 16th at 92nd Street.

1:54 Why, we are screening some episodes of the series,

1:57 the new the new season of Beef, which is fantastic.

2:01 Love it.

2:02 Obsessed already.

2:03 You will be obsessed with this one.

2:04 May 5th, Stanley Tucci, 92nd Street Y,

2:08 and some other really cool events coming up.

2:10 All the link all the links are in the show notes.

2:12 And as always, really the place for all

2:14 one-stop shopping happy sack infused is our Patreon.

2:17 patreon.com/happy say infused.

2:20 You get early access.

2:21 You get discount codes to our live events.

2:24 Uh merch.

2:25 You can ask a question to our guests.

2:27 All sorts of fun stuff.

2:28 patreon.com/happy sad confused.

2:31 If you really want to dive into all things Josh Horowitz and Happy Sadfused,

2:36 that's the place for you.

2:38 Okay, a little more context on this conversation today.

2:41 This is a live event.

2:43 This is an event uh taped at C2E2.

2:45 If you don't know what C2E2 is,

2:47 it is essentially the ComicCon of Chicago that happens every spring.

2:51 I've gone the last few years and um this was

2:55 a real treat because I was a Westwing fan.

2:57 uh was obsessed with that show way back when and we were able

3:00 to bring together uh Dule Hill who was just a young actor starting

3:04 out way back when and of course Martin Sheen who was a legend

3:08 then and is a legend now playing the president Jed Bartlett in the show.

3:13 Um and to see them together on stage was such a treat.

3:17 They have such a sweet energy together.

3:21 Um, clearly a strong bond that has been forged through the making

3:25 of that show and in the years that have come since.

3:28 And what a what an amazing show that has stood the test of time.

3:31 Aaron Sorcin's writing, um, that amazing ensemble,

3:34 Brad Witford and Allison Janney,

3:37 top to bottom, Richard Schiff, the late John Spence Spencer.

3:41 Um, and anchored of course by Martin Sheen.

3:43 So, and Martin is so eloquent.

3:45 If you haven't checked out his podcast episode with me a few months back,

3:49 we did a one-on-one promoting his podcast,

3:52 the Marin Sheen podcast, which I highly recommend, by the way.

3:55 Um, he's he's a legend for a reason.

3:58 Not only a great actor,

3:58 but just a great human being, a humanitarian, an activist.

4:02 Um, and someone who just always speaks truth to power and especially

4:07 in these times is is just someone I value listening to always.

4:11 So, it was a real honor to have Martin Sheet on the stage

4:13 and Dule Hill to talk about one of the all-time great shows.

4:16 So, I take you now to Chicago.

4:19 This is me, Martin Sheen, and Dway Hill.

4:21 Some fan questions towards the end.

4:22 Great energy in Chicago.

4:24 Thanks for having me.

4:24 Thanks for having us.

4:26 Uh, and if you couldn't be there in person, here it is.

4:28 Me, Dway, and Martin the West Wing for your ears and eyes right now.

4:34 Hello again, Chicago.

4:35 How you guys doing?

4:36 How's the day treating you?

4:37 You good?

4:38 You good?

4:40 Uh, yes.

4:40 My name is Josh Horowitz and welcome to this uh celebration

4:44 of one of the iconic shows of all time, The West Wing.

4:47 Guys, come on.

4:49 The West Wing.

4:51 It has been, can you imagine?

4:52 It's been 20 years since The West Wing left the airwaves,

4:55 but it is still so resonant.

4:57 Maybe it's more resonant than ever.

4:59 Uh it stands the test of time for so many reasons.

5:02 the Aaron Sorcin dialogue, the walk and talks, the amazing ensemble,

5:07 including two amazing actors that are about to join us.

5:10 Shall we fill up some seats and have a chat?

5:15 Okay, please give it up for Dlay Hill.

5:18 Dway, come on out.

5:23 How's everybody doing?

5:25 All right.

5:25 All right.

5:29 All right.

5:33 And keep it going guys cuz we have the one and only the legendary.

5:36 It's Martin Sheen.

5:38 Everybody please.

5:58 Uh thank you so much.

6:01 Thank you.

6:14 Uh, thank you so much.

6:16 You don't start every C2e2 panel like that, do you guys?

6:19 Come on.

6:21 We're already off to a great start.

6:23 Uh, welcome guys.

6:24 Welcome to Chicago.

6:25 Welcome to C2E2.

6:26 Thank you.

6:27 Uh, I said it before, 20 years since the West Wing left the air.

6:33 Does that Does that seem right?

6:35 Does it feel like 20 years or 26?

6:37 But who's counting?

6:41 Does it feel like a long time ago in in your estimation?

6:44 I mean, when you look back at that period of your life,

6:47 where does the West Wing what what power does

6:49 the West Wing have in your lives and careers?

6:52 Uh for myself it was an absolute gamecher.

6:55 Before I booked the West Wing, I was an unemployed actor looking for work.

7:00 And I always tell so was I.

7:06 You know, I always tell the story how I was over, you know, Freddy Prince Jr.

7:10 and I are good friends and I was over

7:11 by Freddy's house playing video games and I said,

7:14 "Freddy, if I don't get a job soon,

7:16 I'm either coming to live with you or I'm going back to New Jersey

7:18 because I do not have any more money." And about maybe three weeks later,

7:24 I got the audition for the West Wing.

7:25 I went back in for a call back and then next thing I knew I was on the set

7:29 with Martin Sheen and Roblo and the talented

7:32 cast and it it was a complete game changer

7:35 for me and I'm very grateful for it because

7:38 that was my first television series and to be I

7:41 guess brought up under the toutelage of Martin and Allison

7:44 and John Spencer and Aaron Sorcin and John Wells.

7:47 It really taught me how to handle myself in the business.

7:51 Martin especially taught me how to stay

7:53 connected to my humanity and to just connect

7:56 with people along the journey and that is

7:58 something that I've taken with me throughout my career.

7:59 So I'm very grateful for it.

8:01 Quite a way to start out a TV series.

8:02 Yeah.

8:05 For for you Martin I mean were you you had obviously worked on the American

8:10 President that great Aaron Sorcin script rest

8:13 in peace the great Rob Reiner and amazing film.

8:16 Did that lead directly into the West Wing?

8:19 There has to be a connection there, it would seem.

8:21 Uh, it did.

8:21 But I just want to back up for just a minute.

8:23 I I went to uh an interview about the job,

8:27 the American president, and I was sitting in the office of the director,

8:32 and I noticed a a movie poster on the wall,

8:35 and it was one of my favorite movies, The Princess Bride.

8:39 And so, and this guy comes out and I said,

8:44 "You you you directed that?" And that's all we talked about.

8:46 I left the office.

8:48 two weeks later, Rob Reiner called me and asked me to do the American President.

8:52 So I that's all I talked to him about.

8:56 But uh I just want to remember him uh so very fondly.

9:01 Uh he dule and I uh toured several times uh in campaigns.

9:09 He was a dear dear friend and mentor

9:13 and uh an extraordinary human being besides being a brilliant

9:17 director and uh we uh we're still not able

9:21 to truly uh get our head around what happened.

9:26 But he lives here and anyone that ever met him,

9:30 anyone that's ever uh worked with him especially uh

9:34 he was the dearest dearest man and the most disarming.

9:38 He was always the same, treated everybody equally.

9:42 And so, uh, I just whenever I speak publicly,

9:45 I I want to remember him and and very lovingly.

9:49 It's it's a huge loss.

9:50 Yeah.

9:56 So, the circumstances of you joining this show

9:59 for the many might know this or many might not.

10:02 At first it was unclear like whether you were kind of a small role like

10:06 was the president going to be like a major part of this series or not.

10:09 How was it presented to you?

10:11 Was Bartlett always going to be front and center as the contrary?

10:15 No.

10:15 Uh in the pilot I agreed to do a pilot and you know when you

10:19 do a a pilot you have to sign on for the uh required seven-year contract.

10:26 Uh it's true.

10:28 Um they got some very good lawyers in these uh

10:32 places and uh so um as long as you agree

10:35 to that along the way you can maybe uh you

10:40 know make some adjustments in your contract which we occasionally did.

10:43 Uh uh but I was asked to just appear in the pilot and um as far

10:50 as the you know the rest of the season went I would be a reoccurring character.

10:55 There was no first family, certainly no first lady.

10:59 And uh the show was basically about the staff and the focus was the staff.

11:04 And uh so uh when uh when I saw the pilot,

11:11 I knew that uh the network was going to ask who worked in the Oval Office.

11:17 And so uh I I was absolutely certain they were going to come back and say,

11:21 "Uh would you consider being a regular?" and I did and very happy about it.

11:27 Uh but um I think it was the pilot that sold people on the fact that you

11:33 had to include the not just the president but the first family and uh so yeah

11:39 it was the one of the most uh fortunate things that happened to me in my life

11:45 and my career and I'm still um I

11:49 still find it unbelievable that it actually happened.

11:52 You too.

11:53 Oh yeah.

11:53 I'm I'm still in awe of the effect that the show has had over the years.

11:59 You know, you you get a job, you you do a show.

12:01 I had but at the time I had no idea that it would last a lifetime.

12:06 26 years since we premiered.

12:08 People still seem to be affected by the show.

12:10 People still seem to be encouraged by the show.

12:12 And it really warms my heart that one I was able to be a part of it.

12:16 And then that that work has, you know, standed the test of time.

12:20 There's so many reasons for that.

12:21 Obviously, I mean, I I alluded to before.

12:23 Um, I mean, the dialogue is famously just so impeccable.

12:28 Aaron Sorcin is one of one.

12:30 Um, can you talk to me a little bit

12:32 about like how did you get scripts far in advance?

12:34 I mean, there's some meaty meaty monologues.

12:37 I think sometimes we would get scripts after the show was aired.

12:40 I'm I'm just playing.

12:40 I'm just So, what's that like for either of you?

12:46 like you get a script page script pages put under

12:48 your door the day before the day of and it's a mouthful.

12:54 Uh well the first four years Aaron was the chief uh writer and he had if

13:02 he didn't write the script totally himself he

13:04 certainly had a hand in all of them.

13:06 Uh and it was one of the reasons he couldn't

13:09 continue because it was just uh overwhelming, wouldn't you say?

13:13 I mean he just couldn't keep up and uh who could you know but when

13:19 we started initially I think we all knew that we had something very very

13:24 special and that it was uh it was a long time coming and it would

13:30 probably be a long time before anything

13:32 else like the West Wing would happen again.

13:35 So, we took it very serious, but we didn't know if it was possible

13:40 for the series to go uh in one even one year.

13:44 Would you agree?

13:45 Because we would do 22 episodes a year back then.

13:48 And the reason was we didn't know if we

13:51 could do a political show with a Democratic uh president

13:57 with a liberal agenda and sell cars and prescription

14:02 drugs and insurance and all the things that advertise shows.

14:07 We just were not sure that that would happen.

14:09 And that was the greatest surprise and the greatest satisfaction is

14:13 that it had a an appeal across the board of Republicans,

14:17 Democrats, old, young, rich, and poor.

14:20 It didn't matter.

14:21 People were intrigued by the the show.

14:24 And I think what it basically taught people is that we're all in this together.

14:28 Yeah.

14:36 We'll be right back with more Happy, Sad, Confused.

14:45 All right, guys.

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18:09 I would imagine both of you have interacted with politicians

18:13 that are fans of the show over the years.

18:16 What have they said to you?

18:16 Have you had any memorable reactions?

18:19 Bill Clinton still refers to me, you're my favorite president, Martin.

18:27 He loved the show.

18:28 He was a mind you was in his last year when we

18:32 were in our first year and he was just enamored of the show.

18:36 He loved it.

18:36 He would occasionally make suggestions about some scripts maybe.

18:41 But uh he invited us uh to his depart.

18:45 What do you call the thing with the press?

18:47 Remember when

18:48 the correspondence

18:49 correspondent dinner?

18:50 We were all invited and we all went.

18:51 It was the only time I ever went.

18:53 Have you gone since then with anyone?

18:55 I went once for once for President Obama as well.

18:58 Okay, good.

18:59 Yeah.

18:59 See, there you go.

19:02 But I will say during that moment that you're talking

19:04 about where President Clinton invited us to the correspondence dinner,

19:08 he wanted to meet the cast before he

19:10 went out I guess to do his presidential thing.

19:13 So he we were in this back like this back room

19:16 I remember like behind these curtains and the cast is all there.

19:19 waiting for the president to come in and finally President

19:22 Clinton comes in and then Martin sees President Clinton and he

19:25 does this he does this like grand gesture like this and then

19:29 and then President Clinton did the same thing to him.

19:32 It it like it it seared in my mind cuz

19:34 I was like what is happening with my life right now?

19:37 like like this I was just looking for a job

19:40 a few months ago and this is crazy, you know,

19:43 but he had that much uh affinity for the show

19:46 and for Martin and I'll never forget that President Clinton always said

19:49 that this was the closest that you could get to reality without

19:53 doing a documentary in terms of how the West Wing really works.

19:57 So, it was a truly truly an honor.

19:59 It's uh his uh press secretary was our first adviser.

20:02 Yeah.

20:03 DD Meers.

20:04 DD.

20:04 Sure enough.

20:05 And I got to give a shout out to Chris Enskow because Chris Enskow was

20:08 the personal aid to the president at the time and he's the one I I first

20:12 DD connected us and we got a chance to sit down and talk and he

20:15 really let me know how integral that position

20:18 is to the movements of the West Wing.

20:20 It's also great that we I'm so happy we have you two because that relationship

20:24 in particular was a really special one to see in the show and how it developed.

20:27 Can you talk about I mean I don't know

20:30 how the the Charlie Bartlett relationship was special to you

20:33 working with Martin and Vice Versa and how and how

20:36 it progressed over the the course of the years.

20:39 I mean I can say when I first came to this set I joined the show in the third

20:43 episode and I mean I'm I'm coming

20:46 to this set it's on Warner Brothers this historic lot.

20:50 There's Martin Sheen, there's Rob Low,

20:52 there's Richard Schiff, there's Alison Janney, there's John Spencer.

20:55 Oh, there's the guy who wrote You Can't Handle the Truth.

20:58 Like, this is I'm like, "Oh, and that's the guy who produced ER.

21:01 This is crazy," you know?

21:03 So, I'm just like, "Oh my gosh." And then I come on to the set,

21:06 which is a magnificent set, you know.

21:09 Side note, I'm going to do a little side note.

21:10 I never walked into the Oval Office until we

21:13 rehearsed the scene of Charlie coming into the Oval Office.

21:17 So, by the time we filmed it, that was really the second time I rehearsed it,

21:20 came back in and filmed it, and that's when I really started to take it in.

21:23 So that really was my reaction to seeing

21:25 the Oval Office because I'd never seen it before.

21:27 But early in the week was when I first met Martin.

21:30 I see.

21:31 Okay, here comes here comes Martin Sheen.

21:33 This is crazy.

21:34 And he came up to me and he says, you know, how you doing?

21:36 Oh, nice to meet you.

21:36 He said, uh, do you know uh, you know, Larry Fishburn?

21:40 Well, he goes by Lawrence now.

21:41 Do you know him?

21:42 I said, "Yeah, of course." He said, "Well,

21:43 I did a movie with him called Apocalypse Now." And you know,

21:46 he taught me this handshake and I'm going to teach it to you.

21:51 And this is the handshake.

22:00 And to this day, we still do it whenever we see each other.

22:04 But it allowed me to realize how personable he was.

22:07 It allowed me to get beyond the, you know,

22:09 I guess the what's the word I'm looking for?

22:12 Like the Martin Sheen of it all and be like, "Oh, wow.

22:14 This is this is a this is a cool guy." Okay.

22:18 So, so from there like really helped I think

22:20 build the relationship and then we used to play

22:22 basketball and I really don't want to say it

22:25 but Martin used to beat me on the basketball court.

22:28 We'll play oneonone right there on Warner Brothers and I'm

22:30 still very angry cuz I don't think I've ever beaten Martin.

22:33 You know what I mean?

22:34 So there you go.

22:35 But things like that would help the power.

22:37 We're going to finish this outside today.

22:39 We're gonna I think we should bring a basketball hoop in right now.

22:42 You know, um, incidentally, go Ali tonight.

22:51 I would imagine it's hard to pinpoint specific episodes or scenes,

22:54 but there are some very memorable ones that people often cite.

22:57 Um, the two cathedrals episode for you, Martin.

23:02 I mean, that kind of monologue rant to God,

23:05 it's a pretty powerful powerful moment for you.

23:09 Does that does that jump out at you

23:10 as a special especially memorable scene and episode?

23:14 Uh it was you know I um I was astonished at he had half of it uh this is

23:20 Erin Sorcin wrote that episode and and in that monologue

23:24 he put almost half of it in Latin.

23:28 And uh I I asked I said why are you putting this in Latin?

23:36 And he said, "Well, I thought I would put it in the language of God." I thought,

23:43 "Where did you hear that?" But I was an alter boy when

23:49 I was a child and I remembered a lot of the Latin,

23:52 but mostly the prayers, you know, of the mass.

23:55 And so I went to my local uh parish priest um Manior

24:02 Sheridan and I asked him to uh go over it with me.

24:05 So he and I and I realized how far off I was until I started studying with him.

24:10 But it took me about a week and I finally got it and uh so u yeah

24:16 that that scene was uh was kind of touchy

24:20 because it was a it was in the National Cathedral.

24:23 You're not even allowed to smoke within a block of that place and and I

24:27 was smoking in the sanctuary and then stamping it out on the floor.

24:32 I mean there no ashtrays there of course but uh and some

24:37 of the um acolytes the men and the women who who

24:42 are there all the time you know they were not pleased

24:46 with that at all and and I saw how uncomfortable they were

24:51 but they weren't talking about it but just their facial expressions because

24:54 when we shot them after then you have to come in closer

24:57 and do the coverage and during that period which sometimes takes 20

25:02 minutes or even a half hour to relight, you know, a scene.

25:07 And I was kind of waiting around and I I

25:11 started talking to a few of these guys and I said,

25:13 "Um, you seem uncomfortable with what I'm

25:16 doing in this scene." They said, "Well, yeah,

25:18 we we don't normally talk to God like that, but uh

25:24 but it's the smoking that really we find offensive." And I said, "Oh,

25:29 well, okay." I said, "But um" I said, "Well,

25:32 why did you okay us doing it in here?" And they said, "It wasn't our idea.

25:40 Some I guess some some agency in the government allowed us in there." And I

25:46 it's the last last time that anyone filmed in there in a show, you know.

25:52 Uh but at any rate uh they were very uncomfortable

25:56 and I was trying to make them feel oh you

25:59 know that we weren't desecrating the place or the faith

26:04 and and just then I looked up at the top window.

26:08 You know how you looked like I'm doing

26:09 right now trying to think of something to say.

26:12 I'm still trying to think of something to say.

26:14 And uh there was a stained glass window at the top uh part

26:20 of the cathedral and it was Job of all things of all guys.

26:25 And so I said, "Do you know what this scene is about?" And they said,

26:28 "What do you think?" I said, "That guy,

26:31 he's crying out to God, how could you do this to me?

26:36 On the other hand, you know, uh,

26:39 thanks for for keeping me here kind of, you know,

26:42 the way we rage and and then we give thanks and praise,

26:45 but we rage again and we give thanks.

26:48 It's very human.

26:49 And they kind of got it, you know,

26:50 that we were not being uh, sacriiggious in by any stretch of the imagination.

26:57 We were just trying to be really human.

26:59 And the fact that the president of the United

27:01 States was showing the depth of his humanity,

27:05 his brokenness and he was having it out with the creator,

27:09 you know, uh had a very profound effect on a lot of folks

27:13 when they saw that scene and not the least of which was me.

27:17 Uh but yeah, that's a very memorable scene.

27:19 And we forget that it was Mrs.

27:22 Landingham's funeral.

27:23 That's where it started.

27:25 And uh I I just wonder if we could stop and just Speaking of Mrs.

27:30 Landingham, he Dule had a Dulay had a very special relationship with Mrs.

27:37 Landingham.

27:38 Every time he got into the Delay is a one

27:41 of the top professional dancers in the United States, if not the world.

27:46 If any of you have seen him dance and he used

27:49 to come in to work and he would dance when he's waiting,

27:52 you know, for a scene or waiting or just waiting around,

27:55 he dances anywhere he can.

27:57 He just starts dancing.

27:59 Mrs.

27:59 Landingham did not approve.

28:03 Please take it from there.

28:04 No dancing in the Oval Office.

28:06 That's not allowed.

28:07 Right outside the Oval Office was the one place

28:09 on the set of the West Wing where I could not dance.

28:12 I would come in and Catherine would be like, "Dolay.

28:18 I would just walk on out." It's funny, speaking of uh Mrs.

28:21 Landingham's funeral at the at the cathedral.

28:24 It brought back to my memory that in between takes I would go

28:27 up to the uh you know the pull pit and I would I

28:31 think I had like I may had like one line or something to say

28:33 but I was up there and I would go you did this Mr.

28:37 President you did this just to you know lighten the mood

28:42 a little bit you know it was a heavy scene so oh my god I know you did this Mr.

28:49 president.

28:50 He came into the church and said, "Who's in the box?" Oh, God.

28:59 Virtually.

28:59 No, I will say I used to always say about the West Wing is that

29:02 it was a drama, but I used to say, you know,

29:04 we could go back and do this show as a halfhour comedy

29:08 because there are so many personalities on the set

29:10 that we would laugh so much off camera.

29:12 It would be a real comedy show.

29:14 Where are you guys at?

29:15 I know you get this question probably virtually every day.

29:18 it's been brought up a reboot, a continuation, etc.

29:22 Um, it seems like I don't know, it seems like that's not happening.

29:25 I mean, have you been have you wanted it to happen over the years?

29:28 Like, where is your heads at at right now in terms of continuing the West Wing?

29:32 And what what would it look like in 2026?

29:34 We're in a different environment, aren't we?

29:36 I mean, uh, I'll let you answer as well, but I'm like,

29:38 for myself, I I think some things are better left alone.

29:42 Uh, I just think it's it's really it's told a story.

29:44 The second part of it I will say is when

29:48 you watch the West Wing now it doesn't seem archaic.

29:52 So many things are are still so current which is

29:54 a testament to the brilliance of Aaron Sorcin and all

29:57 the creative forces behind the show but also a conviction

30:01 to our society because we've not moved further enough along the road.

30:05 So, I really don't know how you take that and make it

30:08 like make it new when that still is so relevant today, you know.

30:13 But I at the bottom of it, I will say if Aaron Sen came up with an idea,

30:16 then I think we would all would be there.

30:19 Simple as that.

30:20 Charlie for president.

30:21 Hey, there you go.

30:22 Here.

30:22 Here.

30:23 He went to law school.

30:24 Yeah.

30:24 What What happened to Charlie in the last 20 years?

30:26 What do you think?

30:27 How's he doing?

30:28 How's he doing?

30:28 I think he's doing quite all right for himself.

30:31 I think I would guess that he's working

30:33 either in government or right outside of government.

30:36 You know, I would say he's probably going the lane of uh Melissa Fitzgerald,

30:39 who is plays Carol on our show.

30:42 She actually is involved in in real work outside of like in government now.

30:47 She works with a a nonprofit.

30:50 Yeah.

30:50 The um called All Rise.

30:52 Yeah.

30:52 All Rise, which is the drug court basically,

30:55 you know, the National Association of Drug Court Professionals.

30:58 It's under a different name now.

31:00 under the present administration.

31:02 Nevertheless, uh people are still being served uh in drug court.

31:08 I assume most of you know what that is.

31:11 Yes or no?

31:13 Okay, good.

31:14 Uh but as as far as uh doing are you talking about like a rehash of Yeah.

31:20 What would you What's your attitude about returning to the character,

31:23 seeing West Wing come back in some form?

31:25 Well, even before it went off the air, I was already retired.

31:28 This is true.

31:30 I'm not getting any closer to getting back there.

31:32 You know, somebody told me one day not too long ago,

31:35 uh, you ought to run for president.

31:37 I I couldn't even walk for president these days.

31:41 But I think that Aaron Sorcin has has kept a a focus

31:45 and if he ever went back or decided to do a West Wing,

31:48 I don't know if it could be any better than the one he did.

31:51 I honestly don't know because it was so brilliant.

31:53 He was so absolutely magnificent.

31:56 It's, you know, hard to imagine it any better.

32:01 And you know, it's like, okay, what would be the the the purpose of doing a new

32:05 one when you can still see the old one that's really

32:10 still as as as as Dulay was just saying it's it's

32:13 as relevant today as it was then, if not more so.

32:17 And you still get called Mr.

32:18 President to this day, I would imagine.

32:20 Do people say that?

32:21 I I'm I'm often referred to as the former acting president of the United States.

32:27 Have I It's very strange that whenever I go to see Martin,

32:29 he always tells me when the president stands.

32:32 No, you know, so he likes to like walk around just standing

32:36 up all the time so that none of us get to sit down.

32:38 I'm just I'm just playing.

32:40 You know, you're maybe referring to that scene.

32:41 I don't know if some of you remember that episode where the lady wouldn't Okay.

32:45 Yeah.

32:46 And I said that to her at the after I just bashed her to, you know,

32:50 to to this horrible level of uh of of what what would you say?

32:56 Uh what did I do?

32:58 I humiliated her after she tried to humiliate me.

33:01 Of course, but uh I won in the end.

33:03 She deserved to heard somebody say I Yes.

33:07 But when she I said, you know,

33:08 when the president everybody stands, she stood up and I said,

33:13 "Thank you." They cut it and I do Do you know that that I was every cake I said,

33:18 "Thank you." And they they said, "No, don't say thank you." And I'm say, "No,

33:22 this president says thank you." So when I saw the show, the thank you was cut.

33:28 And I asked I said, "Why did you cut the thank you?" He said,

33:32 "Because that was Martin.

33:33 That was not Bartlett." I said,

33:35 "Okay." Did Did either of you enjoy or dread the the long walk and talks?

33:44 Because that's a challenge for an actor.

33:46 That's a lot of dialogue and there's a lot of choreography involved, too.

33:49 Maybe your dance background helped with that.

33:51 I don't know.

33:52 The only time I really dreaded it when it was when I was at the end

33:56 of the walk and talk and had to come and say, "Here you go, Mr.

33:58 President." You know, cuz if if I come back and I say,

34:00 "Uh uh uh uh here." Oh my gosh.

34:04 You don't want to do that because they have to do

34:06 the whole thing all over again and you had one line to say.

34:08 So that's the hardest part.

34:10 But beyond that, uh I actually I I actually enjoyed

34:14 it because it kind of made it even more like theater.

34:17 Yeah.

34:17 You had to do it like you have to get it all in this one take.

34:21 and I knew how beautiful those shots would turn out.

34:24 So I I was actually excited to be a part to be a part of those those moments.

34:28 That became like a tra a a trademark of our show.

34:31 But it was also a a very uh interesting

34:34 technique because if you shoot a walk and talk, you you don't cover it.

34:38 You don't have to if everybody hits their mark and remembers their lines.

34:42 Uh which was rare enough, but if we did, uh that was it.

34:47 And sometimes it took, we'd do six, eight, nine, 10 takes sometimes,

34:52 but you didn't have to cover it, which usually took hours and hours to cover.

34:56 And I just want to mention uh my favorite walk and talk scene was

35:00 with Delay where we had a scene where

35:04 we left the oval and we're going somewhere.

35:06 I can't remember where, but you remember the scene where I was saying, "Oh,

35:09 good to see you, Joe." And I give Harry, "Oh, Mike, all the best.

35:12 Say hello to Sally.

35:13 Hey, how are you doing, Ben?" "All the best." Yeah, good.

35:15 And at the end of it after this we five

35:18 minute walk I said I asked Dule and let's play it.

35:22 Uh Charlie did I get any of them right?

35:27 I don't know what my line would be.

35:29 Uh no no sir but no sir you got close on a couple.

35:36 I think that probably might have been a reflective of us on set a lot of times.

35:41 You know, my favorite walk I'll talk about.

35:43 My favorite one is the one we were at the hotel.

35:47 I think we filmed it at the Builtmore in Los Angeles and we had

35:50 to come all the way downstairs and all the way out to the car.

35:53 That one for me, I enjoyed it like seeing it,

35:57 but it was pretty nerve-wracking for me because I didn't have

35:59 much to say and it's like it's so much movement and choreography.

36:02 It's like don't mess it up.

36:04 Do not mess it up.

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38:18 I mean, the ensemble is amazing from top to bottom.

38:20 Like, I mean, like having someone like Elizabeth Moss who who is like,

38:23 you know, your contemporary obviously.

38:25 Did that help?

38:25 I mean, you kind of like she had been acting since she was a kid, too.

38:28 But like having someone as a as a contemporary to kind

38:32 of go through it with, was that helpful for you, Dway?

38:34 I mean, honestly, it was help like I just enjoyed being around everybody.

38:37 I loved working with Elizabeth,

38:39 but the everyone was so warm and welcoming to me that from the beginning,

38:43 it truly felt like a family.

38:45 I felt safe and it really was about sitting back and learning.

38:48 I'll take a little pivot.

38:49 I know there was a scene with Martin and John

38:52 Spencer in the Oval Office and I believe Laura

38:55 Inis was directing and that might have been uh

39:00 that it might have been what's the title of the show?

39:02 Let Bartlett be Bartlett or something like that or Bartlett

39:04 for America and they were you you were going at it.

39:07 Something had happened and you and John came

39:09 in and they were really going at it.

39:11 I'm like, man, these are two heavyweights.

39:13 These guys are really good.

39:14 and and Lord just kept working with you all

39:16 and peeling the layers back and eventually got to just

39:19 a a conversation that was so grounded and it

39:22 touched me so much because I was in the scene.

39:24 I didn't say anything in the scene but I was

39:26 in the scene and it was really one of the most valuable

39:28 moments for me on the set of the west with me

39:30 because I just sat there and got a chance to learn.

39:32 But that happened to me so often on the show

39:35 just being around Martin and Allison and all these, you know,

39:37 all these guest actors coming in.

39:40 It really was a a gift that has that has been a gift of a lifetime.

39:43 So yeah, but imagine you bring that to something

39:45 like psych when you know you've learned from Thank you.

39:48 Thank you.

39:50 from seeing the number one and number two

39:51 on the call sheet and then you you become that guy.

39:55 So much of what I brought to psych in terms of how I dealt with myself

39:58 on the set came from what I learned from Martin

40:01 and John and everybody else on on the show.

40:04 Uh a little side note, Mrs.

40:07 Landingham.

40:07 They did a flashback episode I think I think

40:10 in the two cathedrals I think where they show Mrs.

40:13 Landingham a younger version of Mrs.

40:14 Landingham and that is uh Kristen Nelson who plays Chief Vic

40:18 on site all connected.

40:20 There it is.

40:21 Yeah.

40:23 Yep.

40:22 You know speaking of Elizabeth Moss when she first

40:26 arrived she was a little nervous her first episode

40:29 and John Spencer went up to her and he

40:31 said you will be our daughter and that was it.

40:36 She's done all right for herself.

40:38 She's done quite all right for herself.

40:41 Um, taking a step back for a second from the West Wing,

40:44 you guys both have like ComicCon cred, C2E2 cred.

40:47 I mean, we mentioned you've been to like

40:49 Comic-Cons over the years for for Psych, of course.

40:51 Talk to me a little bit about like

40:53 I don't know, did you grow up into genre, comics, any of this world,

40:58 or did you kind of discover it along the way or or what?

41:00 Do I?

41:01 I more discovered it along the way.

41:02 You know, uh, you know, uh, I was, my family's from Jamaica.

41:06 I was, I know about Bob Marley.

41:10 Bob Marley, soccer, and Rum Punch.

41:13 Not that I was drinking Rum Punch.

41:14 I'm just saying.

41:15 But, uh, I I came up into it along the way,

41:17 especially during the psyche because James O was such a, you know,

41:20 he's so much into all of the genre stuff.

41:24 That's where I I start to really find a connection to it with.

41:27 And for you, Martin, I mean,

41:28 all you have to say is with great power comes great responsibility.

41:32 and this crowd will worship you.

41:37 Um, I mean, playing Uncle Ben in Spider-Man,

41:40 did you realize how I mean, everybody knows Spider-Man.

41:42 Everybody, I think knows Uncle Ben,

41:44 but did you know like how powerful a figure that was

41:47 in the comic book world when you took on that role?

41:49 Uh, clearly I did not.

41:51 I had never seen a Spider-Man before or since.

41:55 Uh, but I'll tell you what,

41:57 I was um I was a speaking uh at the uh Lyola University graduation and I

42:07 was being introduced and and the fellow

42:10 that was introducing me named all these credits,

42:13 the West Wing, Apocalypse Now, Bad Lands, endless credits.

42:18 And they just sat there and then he said he

42:20 played Uncle Ben in the Spider-Man and they almost stood up.

42:27 So, what am I missing?

42:30 I mean, to be fair, you've also got one

42:32 of the great Stephen King adaptations on your resume, too.

42:35 The Dead Zone's a pretty great a different kind of politician than Jed Bartlett.

42:41 A little bit.

42:41 Well, not anymore.

42:44 Yeah.

42:48 Yeah.

42:48 We're just going to let that hang there.

42:52 Upset.

42:52 uh that it was great fun playing that lunatic,

42:56 but you you you don't really conceive that it could happen.

43:02 Duh.

43:05 So, uh any questions from the crowd?

43:08 Um we do actually have an audience that I'm sure has some questions.

43:11 I think we have some microphones out there.

43:13 Are people wind up?

43:15 Yeah, let's go ahead.

43:17 Let's start over here.

43:19 Hi, my name is Christine.

43:21 I'm from Oaklan and I became a new mom

43:25 the same time that the West Wing was starting.

43:28 So, I was very surprised that I got so

43:31 much parenting advice from your show, watching um Mrs.

43:36 Landingham helped develop Jed to become the man that he became and then

43:40 watching Jed develop Charlie Young to become

43:43 the man and then your own daughters.

43:46 So what was the most surprising thing of the West

43:50 Wing that brought to your own lives personally?

43:57 I mean really it allowed me at that time to realize that people

44:03 in government are people just like you and me that they are just people.

44:08 And that's something I didn't realize leading

44:10 up to that point because they seem like,

44:11 oh, these that's senator so and so and president so and so.

44:14 All of these pillars, these buildings,

44:18 they're all inhabited by people who are just like you and me.

44:20 And that's something that I really start to connect with me

44:23 that if I want to be a part of the solution, I have to be engage myself.

44:26 I have to take steps because if I that's how I become a part of the process.

44:30 And I didn't understand that and didn't really truly

44:33 connect with me until I did the West Wing.

44:36 I I would have to confirm that from my part as well.

44:39 I didn't realize that the our government is basically run by people and that you

44:48 know all the uh the cabinet posts

44:51 and the president himself uh change every four years.

44:54 But basically these are the people that serve us and all those agencies.

44:59 And that's what's so heartbreaking now as I speak,

45:03 that they're being diminished and that the people in them are being dismissed.

45:08 And uh that's why today is such an important

45:12 day in the life of our country's future

45:15 because the you know the people the people have

45:21 to remind the government that they're there for us.

45:25 We are not there to serve them.

45:31 So I think that that I think that the I think

45:33 that the West Wing really act accentuated that how important those people were.

45:39 And here's another thing which you may not know is

45:42 that most of the story lines in the West Wing came

45:46 from actual stories that were given to us by administrations

45:50 going all the way back to to Eisenhower to Harry Truman.

45:53 And one of them was one of my favorite episodes when Charlie found

45:56 a letter from a little boy in uh Brooklyn, I guess it was.

46:00 Do you remember the episode?

46:01 And and it and it fell in those days.

46:03 We used to call it the dead letter box.

46:05 Remember?

46:06 Did you get my letter?

46:06 No.

46:08 It was in the dead letter box for some reason or other.

46:10 A little boy in Brooklyn, New York,

46:13 back in the 1930s wrote a letter to President uh uh

46:18 Franklin Roosevelt asking him to please help his father find a job.

46:23 that letter finally reached the White House in Jimmy Carter's administration.

46:28 So, it was a real story.

46:29 And then he found the guy and they brought the the little boy who's

46:33 now an elderly fellow and and Charlie in that episode uh finds the guy.

46:39 You want to just mention about that how

46:40 I remember I think it was uh was that the one where Bill

46:43 Cobb I believe played played the person but uh I do remember that.

46:47 Yeah.

46:47 Yeah, I remember that episode.

46:48 So that was a that was a real story

46:50 and and I love that about the West Wing that so

46:52 many of the stories were taken from real life

46:57 and and brought up to date kind of, you know.

46:59 Yeah.

47:00 Thank you.

47:02 Do you have a followup or Yeah.

47:04 I I just think um the series helped inspire activism for an entire generation.

47:10 So thank you.

47:11 Thank you so much.

47:13 You want to go here?

47:15 Over here.

47:15 Yep.

47:16 as if it were written by Aaron Sorcin.

47:18 That was a perfect segue to my question.

47:20 Um, but before I ask it, I wanted to say sitting here,

47:22 I can't help but think of the episode Arctic Radar and how Josh admonished

47:26 the intern for and described the difference between

47:28 being a fan and there being a fetish.

47:31 And I I feel like he would call this a fetish, right?

47:33 And like comparing episodes, comparing people as he said, I'm fine with that.

47:37 So, we'll be fine with that.

47:38 Anyway, um I was a senior in high school when the show started and um

47:45 there was a companion website NBC like it

47:48 was the beginning of this kind of thing.

47:50 they were kind of innovative in the way they use digital media.

47:52 And I wonder if you have any recollection

47:54 of the fact that like you're talking about,

47:56 each episode would have um information on the NBC website where

48:00 you could go and learn about the real life things that happened.

48:03 And for me, it informed much of what I know about politics currently.

48:09 And so in in college, I wrote a paper and accidentally used

48:12 a Westwing characters foreign leader name repeatedly.

48:17 Interestingly, the professor was like, "I love the show.

48:19 was fine.

48:19 Um, but but it was such a huge impact for me and I

48:23 wonder if you guys remember that at all or developing that or whether ever,

48:26 you know, made it to the actors.

48:29 I wasn't I mean I've heard about the the it was called a website,

48:34 wasn't it, at that time?

48:34 Yeah, I I'd heard about it, but I I still don't if I had a computer,

48:38 I would not know how to turn it on.

48:40 I I heard you say that recently.

48:42 Yeah, it's absolutely true.

48:43 So, I'm going to let my friend respond

48:45 and I wasn't I was not aware of it at the time.

48:47 I do know that they had a curriculum that used to go into the schools,

48:50 but I was not aware of of the of the website.

48:54 Yeah.

48:54 It's funny.

48:54 It's amazing to me sometimes though how you you do something,

48:57 you don't realize the domino effect that you have.

49:00 And we're telling these stories and I'm very thankful for it,

49:03 but you don't realize that, wow, it inspires people along the way,

49:05 which is why I love coming to events like this just

49:07 to see the fruits of the work over over time.

49:10 You know, I think if each of us always do our part in our existence,

49:15 then we can make the world a better place.

49:17 And I I often say, if I can get a billion people to move a billion stones,

49:20 then we can move a mountain.

49:23 Absolutely.

49:22 And the fact that, you know, uh it it has us being on set

49:27 for all those hours informed how you look at government

49:30 and politics and then that will inform how you

49:32 move throughout the world and so many other people.

49:34 That's how we all stay connected.

49:36 We all do our part to hopefully move the ball forward.

49:39 Yeah.

49:39 Thanks.

49:40 I would Yeah, I would imagine both of you have

49:42 encountered people that have said to you, "I'm in politics.

49:45 I'm in this field partially because I watch the West Wing."

49:49 A tremendous amount of people have responded and today

49:53 even a lot of people are coming when we're

49:55 signing things and things from the West Wing and they're

49:59 telling us the effect that it had on them.

50:01 Yeah.

50:01 Amazing.

50:02 Let's go over here.

50:02 Yeah.

50:04 Yeah.

50:04 Hi.

50:05 Uh yeah, you had such a big effect I moved to DC.

50:08 So, that's one thing.

50:09 Uh, but hi, my name is Zoe.

50:11 I'm dressed as Zoe Bartlett.

50:13 Amazing.

50:13 Amazing.

50:14 So, wanted to give a shout out, of course.

50:16 Um, I love Have you been on my life, Zoe?

50:18 It's been so long.

50:18 I know.

50:19 I haven't called you in so long.

50:20 I'm sorry.

50:21 I still don't like that French dude you were with, man.

50:23 I mean, come on.

50:24 Good call.

50:24 Good call.

50:25 Yes.

50:27 Don't make it weird, man.

50:28 Come on.

50:30 He's right.

50:31 So, um, no, I just have a question for my big sister.

50:35 She introduced me to Westwing and to Psych.

50:37 Uh, so for her, I wanted to ask, Mr.

50:40 Doule Hill, do you think Charlie and Gus

50:42 would be friends or how would they get along?

50:47 Oh, I think Gus would annoy Charlie.

50:52 I think at first they might be like, "Oh, wow.

50:53 You're a brilliant young man.

50:54 Oh, you're a brilliant young man." But the more that they talked,

50:57 I think Charlie would be like,

50:58 "I got to get away from this dude because And have you seen his friend,

51:02 too?" No, that's that's that's not a good combination.

51:06 Thank you.

51:08 Let's go over here.

51:09 Hello.

51:10 Uh CJ was always one of my favorite characters.

51:13 I was a journalism major and wanted to know

51:15 what it was like working with Allison Janney.

51:17 If you have any favorite scenes or any favorite stories of her, I can answer it.

51:22 I mean, I love Allison Janney to this day.

51:23 I just love her so dearly.

51:25 She is such a beautiful soul, a shining light.

51:28 As talented as she is, she is so humble and just engaging with people.

51:32 I just I love her to the ends of the earth.

51:34 I really really do.

51:36 Uh there's a scene that she did and she had you know we got scripts late often

51:41 times and there was a scene that was

51:42 being rewritten and it was her and Anna Deve

51:45 Smith and she it was a long walk and talk with her and Anna Deve Smith and she

51:50 received the this this the scene and she

51:53 said okay give me give me a few minutes.

51:54 and she went to her trail and she worked on it

51:57 and she came back and she delivered this performance and I

52:01 was like how do you do that you know and it

52:05 was from the woman of Kamar if I'm not mistaken and it's

52:08 the one where they do the walk-in talk and at the end

52:10 she turns to Anna de Smith and she goes they're beating

52:13 their women they're beating their women and then she walks out

52:17 into the press briefing room and she becomes the the press secretary

52:21 when I saw that I just it.

52:24 Well, I say that scene,

52:26 the uh two cathedrals scene and a Richard Schiff in in Excelsia Sedo.

52:34 Those were the scenes that really let me know like wow like

52:36 the bar of what you can do with this art form of acting,

52:39 how you can really embody something and be

52:42 so powerful with what with with your vessel.

52:44 So, she's a great inspiration for me and I love her dearly.

52:50 Oh, God.

52:51 Uh I I don't know if Doulay knows this, but uh there

52:57 was a poll taken uh uh by an organization that uh wanted

53:04 to know what the audience who who who in the show the audience

53:10 were most uh u impressed by and hands down it was Allison.

53:17 Did you know about this?

53:17 I tried to keep it from you.

53:20 I mean, yeah, I'm I'm very disappointed.

53:22 I'm like, "Wow, really?" No, I mean, that's not surprising to me at all.

53:26 She uh Yeah, she we all adored her and we we loved having scenes with her.

53:33 She had this image of being so straight and bright,

53:36 but she was the funniest person bar none among us,

53:42 with the possible exception of Brad Witford,

53:45 who looked at you and you started laughing.

53:48 But she was we adore and somebody told us a story.

53:53 She was doing an interview about the show and the reporter uh

53:58 commented well you know there's no love interest really in the West.

54:01 Oh yes there is.

54:02 She said and the reporter said between who?

54:05 And she said between John and Martin of course.

54:11 Thank you.

54:12 Thank you.

54:13 Let's go over here.

54:14 Yeah.

54:14 Hi.

54:16 Hi.

54:16 I just want to take a second to shout out what I imagine

54:20 for most of us was government teachers because that's how I got introduced

54:25 to you and government teachers have a very difficult job but you actually

54:30 made that job easier I think so shout out to the government teachers for

54:34 most definitely most definitely thank you very much

54:39 um my question is as we know Erin Sorcin's dialogue is topnotch

54:44 and we know you all got it very of 20 26 years later,

54:49 which of those scenes really stands out to you that you can, you know,

54:54 do with a drop of a dime or what has stuck with you?

55:00 Uh, one of my favorite episodes,

55:06 and because I didn't get a uh many opportunities for comedy,

55:12 one of my favorite episodes was the uh turkey.

55:17 Yes.

55:19 But the way it was written and how

55:21 and how I'm trying to pretend I'm somebody else

55:23 and I'm getting the information as Dule and Richard

55:26 are are scribbing it on, handing it to me.

55:29 uh that and watching that I I was actually laughing at myself.

55:33 I thought, "Wow, I should do more comedy.

55:37 I'm too dramatic." You should do I've got to lighten up.

55:42 Uh but I love that episode.

55:43 Uh my favorite episode uh as I think you

55:46 know was in exch This day of the Christmas show,

55:50 the first Christmas show and it led towards u the uh funeral at uh

55:57 Arlington with the uh former uh Marine

56:01 who died homeless on the streets of Washington.

56:04 Do do you remember that show?

56:06 Oh yeah.

56:06 Okay, good.

56:07 Yeah.

56:07 Yeah.

56:08 the it was the most moving show I it's hard to watch

56:11 without just just weeping uh because it's still happening today of course

56:17 but um the fact that he was a Korean war veteran um

56:23 my brother was in Korea as a as a Marine and he

56:27 was never the same after his time there but I just

56:31 I just I just felt his presence and and his his gratitude

56:36 that we were celebrating uh this man's life uh even though it

56:41 was too late really and we have a tendency to do that unfortunately.

56:47 So that that's one of my favorite episodes is that we

56:50 honored uh a veteran uh who is otherwise going to be discarded.

56:55 You know, do any any um Yes.

56:59 Hey, I I don't really have much to add

57:00 to that because that is one of my favorite episodes as well.

57:03 I mean, Richard's performance in that in the entire cast was phenomenal.

57:07 But I that that episode really touched me.

57:10 And of course, I have to go back to Tooth Cathedrals

57:13 because it was just brilliant work.

57:14 It was absolutely brilliant work.

57:16 I always say I can't believe that Martin didn't get

57:19 an Emmy award for that season alone and that episode alone.

57:22 You know, uh, as you always say, it was Passover.

57:26 Every time we would go to the award shows, Martin would say, "Oh, is it?

57:29 This is Passover.

57:30 This is when they pass over to me and give it to the other guy."

57:36 Are those other guys here today?

57:37 I don't think so.

57:40 Michael Chickas is here.

57:41 Yeah, Michael Chickas is here.

57:42 Yes.

57:43 Damn it.

57:44 Actually, all right.

57:46 That was a good show, too.

57:47 The shield.

57:48 Okay.

57:50 Real quick, though about the the government teachers,

57:53 my daughter in university, she goes TO NORTHWESTERN OUT HERE.

57:58 GO.

57:58 YEAH.

57:58 And she uh she was in her constitutional law class and next thing you know,

58:03 they're showing an episode of the West Wing and she's like,

58:05 "THAT'S MY DAD." SO, IT'S STILL BEING USED TODAY,

58:11 WHICH IS PRETTY, you know, pretty wild for the mind.

58:15 Uh, let's go over here.

58:16 Yeah, please.

58:17 First of all, go Cats.

58:20 HEY, thank you so much for being here.

58:23 I want to um I'm thinking a lot about the state of the world

58:28 and I'm really just I want to ask people who have a lifelong

58:33 career of activism how you keep your fires lit and how you stop

58:38 yourself from burning out in this I mean there's a quote was it Dr.

58:48 King says the moral arc of the universe is long but it bends towards justice.

58:52 That does truly inspire me.

58:54 It does inspire me because it's not always what is right in front of me.

58:57 It's where we are going.

58:59 Uh as I look at the nation today, we are in a terrible place.

59:02 But if we look back at the totality of our nation,

59:04 this is not the worst we have ever been.

59:06 We've done a lot of terrible things within this country.

59:09 We've done a lot of magnificent things.

59:11 But I mean, the fact that I'm sitting here is showing

59:13 you that we've come a long way from where we are.

59:17 And I trust that the goodness of people

59:22 within our nation will will eventually break on through.

59:26 Another thing I always say is just beyond the storm clouds,

59:29 the sun is always shining.

59:31 As a matter of fact,

59:32 it goes back to the time we were out there with Rob and it was me,

59:35 you, and a few of us.

59:36 We had taken off I think out of Nashville

59:38 and the or Memphis and the storm was like raging and eventually we

59:42 got in the air and we got into the clouds

59:44 and the clouds you know whenever you're in the the clouds you

59:46 don't know which way is up which way is down

59:48 but eventually we kept on flying and we kept going a little

59:50 bit higher and it saw a peaking of a ray

59:52 of light at first and then when we got above the clouds

59:55 it was so peaceful so beautiful up there that I said

59:58 I said look at this when we were on the tarmac

1:00:00 we couldn't imagine in our mind's eye that just beyond

1:00:03 the storm clouds the sun was always shining I said if we

1:00:06 could hold on to this as we are going through our personal

1:00:08 struggles in life then maybe we can find encouragement to make

1:00:11 one more step to go a little bit further along

1:00:13 the way and my grandmother would always say later we'll be greater.

1:00:17 So I truly believe that even now in the midst of the storm clouds that are

1:00:20 rising above our nation that we the people if we hold on to each other,

1:00:24 if we see the humanity of each other, if we stay connected to each other,

1:00:27 we keep putting one foot in front of the other and we each pick up our stone,

1:00:30 then collectively we can move the mountain and get

1:00:32 to the point where the sunshine brights again.

1:00:36 That's that's how I stay encouraged along the way.

1:00:39 We're going to we're almost out of time, but but Martin,

1:00:43 I feel like I'd love to hear you weigh in on that.

1:00:45 give us let's let's end this panel with a little bit of hope.

1:00:48 Dule did a great job, but what do you got for us, Martin?

1:00:50 Well, I I I couldn't do it any better than that, honestly.

1:00:54 Uh it's about our humanity and we really particularly in times like

1:01:02 these which we can't have never really had to relate to before,

1:01:08 we realize how valuable our relationships with each other are.

1:01:14 Are we looking in on our neighbor?

1:01:16 Are we concerned about somebody who's been taken away?

1:01:20 Are we concerned about the level of cruelty and violence and chaos?

1:01:27 That's coming from a very very dark place.

1:01:30 I think that when they assemble in that I I used to call it that sacred chamber,

1:01:36 the the um cabinet room because in that room there's a fellow sitting

1:01:44 in that room whose father and uncle

1:01:47 helped pull the world away from nuclear destruction.

1:01:51 in that room during the Cuban missile crisis in 1962,

1:01:55 Bobby and John Kennedy literally pulled

1:01:58 the the world away from nuclear disaster.

1:02:02 So, it's possible that we could have people serving us that are conscious

1:02:08 of being in touch with the best part of their humanity and that is compassion.

1:02:15 to reach out to somebody say you we've

1:02:19 got to understand that everything has a consequence.

1:02:25 You can't mistreat people.

1:02:27 You can't mistreat a country.

1:02:29 You can't destroy a government without consequences.

1:02:32 We're seeing a response to that just today nonviolently with people who

1:02:37 care enough to risk calling our country to its best its best part.

1:02:48 That this group in Washington is not a reflection of who we are.

1:02:53 They sit across the table and see

1:02:54 the worst part of themselves on the other side.

1:02:56 There's no one in that cabinet that they want to be.

1:03:00 And I promise you that secretly they despise

1:03:03 one another because there's no heroes among them.

1:03:05 There's no one that they see across.

1:03:07 I want to be like him.

1:03:08 I want to be like her.

1:03:10 They don't exist.

1:03:11 And so they look to us.

1:03:13 I promise you today,

1:03:15 every one of those cabinet officials plus the old man and all his staff are

1:03:19 looking what's happening in the street because that's

1:03:21 the voice of the people for the people.

1:03:25 and they're they're going to get a a very uh uh

1:03:30 loud and clear message about what it means to be human.

1:03:33 Means to care for one another.

1:03:34 Bottom line, just care for one another.

1:03:38 Well, I do want to say very quickly too, I can't let this time go away.

1:03:47 Have you heard of the Martin Sheen podcast?

1:03:52 Yes.

1:03:52 If you have not, please check it out because really

1:03:54 and truly that you look for little things of inspiration.

1:03:58 The stories that Barton shares, the poetry that he reads,

1:04:02 the uh consider this these oneline things that he puts

1:04:06 out there are so they are they talk about the past,

1:04:09 but they're so relevant for where we are today.

1:04:11 And you just got to find little things

1:04:12 that you can do to encourage yourself along the way.

1:04:14 And sometimes I'll just be in my car

1:04:16 and I'll play an episode and somehow when I'm

1:04:18 finished with the episode I do feel better about

1:04:21 the world than what I see on the news.

1:04:22 So things like that I think is what

1:04:24 we could do to find encouragement along the way.

1:04:26 Thank you.

1:04:26 Thank you.

1:04:27 Thank you both for speaking so eloquently.

1:04:29 Yes, Martin.

1:04:30 Do you mind if I do that?

1:04:31 We could we ready to end this?

1:04:33 We we got to end it, but the final word.

1:04:36 Uh Delay just mentioned our podcast.

1:04:39 We end our podcast every show with a a prayer from Toor for our nation.

1:04:46 Do you want to do it here?

1:04:50 Yes.

1:04:49 Okay.

1:04:49 We are called to lift up this nation and all its people

1:04:53 to that place where the heart is without fear and the head is held high.

1:04:58 Where knowledge is free.

1:05:00 Where the world has not been broken up into fragments by narrow domestic walls.

1:05:05 Where words come out from the depths of truth

1:05:08 and tireless striving stretches its arms towards perfection.

1:05:12 Where the clear stream of reason has not lost

1:05:16 its way into the dreary desert sands of dead habit.

1:05:20 Where the mind is led forward by thee into ever

1:05:23 widening thought and action into that heaven of freedom.

1:05:29 Dear father, let our country awake.

1:05:33 Amen.

1:05:35 to a Hill Martin scene.

1:05:38 Thank you, Chicago.

1:05:46 And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused.

1:05:50 Remember to review, rate,

1:05:52 and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts.

1:05:55 I'm a big podcast person.

1:05:57 I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh.