The Fear of Being Seen and the Strange Way Out

0:00 You go into a meeting, you're oh,

0:02 there's the person who hadn't said anything and somehow

0:04 or another they're like right there at the table,

0:06 but nobody can even remember they were in the meeting.

0:08 It's like this amazing magic trick almost, right?

0:11 There is a fear that is if I get seen, I'm going to be seen as inherently bad.

0:16 All of the fear of being seen is

0:19 a belief that there's something inherently wrong with you.

0:22 If they see me, they will find out that I am broken, right?

0:25 And so one of the ways to work on it

0:27 is to actually open your heart to yourself and say,

0:31 "What is it that I need?" Because that flies exactly

0:34 in the face of me worried about what you think.

0:40 We've been getting a lot of questions from people about the fear of being seen.

0:43 Why they want it so much, but they're also so scared of it.

0:46 And right when they're about to be seen,

0:49 about to be known, they they turn away and run from it.

0:53 So, let's do an episode where we dive

0:55 into that and then talk about what people can do about it.

0:58 Great.

0:58 Perfect.

0:59 Yeah.

0:59 Awesome.

0:59 So, let's just start with like what is this?

1:01 There's there's a lot of different ways that this can show up for folks.

1:04 Yeah.

1:05 So, the fear of being seen, it can be split into two categories.

1:08 There's the category that people who are just like acute in this feel,

1:13 which is, oh, I am scared.

1:17 I have social anxiety.

1:18 I can figure out how to be completely like invisible.

1:23 You go into a meeting, you're oh,

1:25 there's the person who hadn't said anything and somehow

1:27 or another they're like right there at the table,

1:29 but nobody can even remember they were in the meeting.

1:31 It's like this amazing this magic trick almost, right?

1:35 For those folks, it's very much about like, oh,

1:39 this isn't safe and so my job is to avoid.

1:43 And so there's often times there's a strong avoidance pattern.

1:46 And often times what happened was somebody in their childhood taught

1:51 them that like to be seen was going to be not good.

1:57 One of my clients who had this a lot,

1:59 he doesn't have it anymore luckily, but had had this a lot.

2:04 He lived in a Eastern European country and it was before

2:09 the wall came down and his parents were like tall poppy no good.

2:14 Particularly his mom, his dad had gone.

2:16 So his mom and so his mom was constantly don't be seen,

2:19 don't be seen, don't play the music,

2:21 don't be too macho, you're going to get cut down, you're going to be taken out.

2:26 And so he was at once dominated by somebody who was

2:29 some somebody's fear and he was told like do not be big.

2:34 And so and that might have been true in that culture.

2:38 Absolutely.

2:38 Absolutely.

2:39 And so he like I remember he disappeared

2:42 from the first time he did Ground Breakers.

2:44 Just just was wasn't even in the room.

2:48 Um and so that's not physically he was physically in the room.

2:51 He was physically in the room but nobody could remember him.

2:53 No like he it was literally as if he was

2:56 doing a magician's trick of of being unseen while being seen.

3:01 It was amazing to watch him.

3:03 And we've now seen that pattern lots of times.

3:06 The other form of not being seen is something that we all have.

3:10 I don't think anybody has ever showed up

3:13 at a rapid fire coaching and been completely not nervous, right?

3:17 And so the there's a core way in which we

3:20 all are scared of being seen and that's some shame,

3:24 some way that we're scared that we're actually not good.

3:27 We're not inherently good, that we're inherently broken in some way.

3:31 And so to be fully seen in that is is a whole

3:36 another thing that just kind of hits all people on some level.

3:40 And so both of them are are ways of it that happen.

3:44 One is this very acute thing and one is something that happens for everybody.

3:47 How does this often play out to the point in someone's life where they start

3:50 to experience that this is holding them back

3:53 and what what typically happens at that inflection point?

3:57 Yeah.

3:58 Yeah.

3:58 It's an interesting thing.

3:59 I think on some level depending on how hardcore it is, right?

4:04 So if somebody's got deep social anxiety,

4:06 they immediately know this is holding me back.

4:09 There's this fear in that somehow or another they want to be liked.

4:13 Like there's this desire, oh,

4:15 I want to be liked and there is a fear that is

4:18 if I get seen I'm going to be seen as inherently bad.

4:23 So there's there's two different and so they

4:26 have kind of two choices at that point.

4:28 I'm going to just seclude myself in which they become more

4:31 and more and more lonely or I'm going to go out

4:34 into the world and interact in the world and maybe I get

4:39 more lonely depending on how real I am or I just stay

4:43 really quiet in a crowd and then I feel even more

4:45 lonely cuz people don't see me and so the loneliness builds

4:50 and this idea that something is wrong with me builds over time

4:55 and they're not even able to see how people actually see them.

5:02 Right?

5:02 So, I've seen people who have like either

5:04 the social anxiety or scared to say the thing

5:06 in the meeting and everybody thinks they're really

5:08 really smart and they really want the feedback, but they can't actually see it.

5:14 Yeah.

5:13 And so, career-wise, this totally stifles people.

5:16 It's going to limit you in like any kind of executive or leadership role.

5:20 And so, they start to see that.

5:21 They start to recognize that that's what's going on.

5:24 Um and then for most of us like for the for the folks who are

5:30 scared of being seen in the existential way

5:33 which is you know most everybody what they

5:37 start doing what what starts happening is

5:39 they just feel unsatisfied like the this sense

5:42 of connection in their life they know it

5:44 can be stronger and it's just never particularly there

5:49 and it doesn't really go there until they start really seeing themselves.

5:54 To some degree, all of the fear of being seen is a belief that there's something

5:58 inherently wrong with you and if and you

6:03 or somebody else is going to find it out.

6:05 How does this show up in say romantic relationships and in family?

6:08 We've talked a lot about going out into the world

6:11 and you know in work meetings, but what about what about in love relationships?

6:18 Devastating.

6:18 like it's it's super devastating because basically

6:21 what it means is I'm not going

6:22 to tell you what I need and what I want and who I am.

6:26 And so if it there and what's interesting is

6:29 some people they can be in this very safe

6:31 environment and they can share that and and then

6:35 some some people can't even share it in that environment.

6:38 Some people can go out into work and be like this is what I think

6:40 blah blah blah blah but when they

6:41 come home they can't share what's really there.

6:44 They can't share whether it's like that kinky sexual thing that they

6:47 want or they can't share the fact that they really want

6:50 to be rich or they can't share the fact that they really

6:53 think your mom sucks and I don't want to be with her.

6:57 They can't share all the like little things that happen in life

7:01 and so they start walking on eggshells and start being different people.

7:05 And so it just starts to erode any relationship

7:09 because eventually you're going to get resentful over the fact

7:11 that the person across from you isn't actually considering you

7:16 or understanding you because we can't read each other's minds.

7:19 Right.

7:20 Right.

7:20 So they can't possibly consider you if you're not showing yourself.

7:23 So then you start to collect evidence over time that you're not being considered

7:26 and that you're bad.

7:27 Yeah.

7:27 That's the golden algorithm which we go into you know obviously

7:30 in other podcasts and stuff which is oh the more that I am

7:34 scared to be seen the more evidence that I can collect that shows

7:40 that oh if somebody sees me there's going to be a problem.

7:44 Yeah

7:43 right because I show up incredibly scared.

7:46 People are not people are not as receptive to fear as as confidence.

7:52 you know that that I'm hesitant in the way that I talk about something.

7:56 I'm viewing other people's responses that might just be

7:59 curious and full of wonder as they don't believe me.

8:03 They're they're challenging me and see I I said something that was bad.

8:08 And so that's so it's one of those things

8:10 that it does accumulate on itself because the emotion

8:15 that we are scared to have we are avoiding

8:19 the exact way that we are actually inviting it in.

8:23 So I'm scared to be seen and therefore like when people see me

8:28 they see this scared thing and I don't get the love that I want.

8:32 See I've proven that I'm no good.

8:35 Yeah.

8:35 So, we've talked about this belief,

8:37 the the belief that I'm I'm unworthy, I'm bad, I'm wrong, I'm unlovable.

8:43 Yeah.

8:43 So, how does this show up on the different

8:44 levels like the head, the heart, the gut?

8:46 Like, cuz a lot of times when somebody freezes,

8:48 they intellectually know I'm not bad.

8:50 I have something valuable to share right now.

8:52 What is making my entire body seize up?

8:54 Why is my throat clenching?

8:56 Why?

8:56 That's a great question.

8:57 Why am I sweating?

8:58 Why did that entire meeting happen

9:00 without me even recognizing what was occurring?

9:02 Yeah, it's an interesting one because that's exactly what you see when you're

9:07 when rapid coaching is happening.

9:09 People are like and they know Yeah.

9:12 but their head knows on some level that they they've raised their hand.

9:15 They want this thing and then when the spotlight's on them, they're like

9:19 each one of these things, whether it's the head or the the human side,

9:22 the emotional side or the mamleian side or the nervous system side,

9:26 each one of these things can be on or off.

9:29 But if they're on the head is basically saying, "These people don't like me.

9:34 They they if they see me, they're going to think that I'm bad.

9:37 I'm bad." That's what the head is doing.

9:39 And it's constantly self-correcting.

9:42 You said that wrong.

9:43 You should have said it this way.

9:44 Why didn't you say it that way?

9:46 Like all that stuff.

9:47 I can solve this by intellectually figuring out the way

9:49 to be to get my needs met and love it.

9:52 Yeah.

9:53 As if like people need you to be perfect to to like you, you know?

9:56 And so that's what the the head is doing.

9:59 If the head isn't doing that and it's just happening

10:01 in the in the emotional center and the nervous system,

10:04 then the head is like, why am I why don't just just speak?

10:08 Why aren't you just speaking?

10:10 You know, which is which is the criticism of of the parent

10:15 or the teacher or whatever saying just do the thing.

10:18 So it's like you've actually turned the eye of Siren on yourself, right?

10:22 Like what?

10:23 Like and so you're under attack.

10:26 Yeah.

10:25 Right.

10:25 And so, and the more you're under attack, why aren't you doing this thing?

10:29 Why why isn't this going right?

10:31 The more the the rest of your system starts freezing up

10:34 and it ultimately can become a panic attack, a full-blown literal panic attack.

10:38 Well, right.

10:39 So, it's amazing when you think about it.

10:40 It's like to some degree there's that external eye of Siren like,

10:45 okay, the the world is now paying attention to me.

10:48 Somebody's going to criticize me.

10:51 And the truth is like there's no time you're going to be

10:54 in public where somebody's not having a judgmental thought about you.

10:58 Whether you're confident or non-confident, whether you're scared or not scared,

11:01 whether you have social anxiety or don't have social anxiety,

11:04 we're all facing that same reality.

11:08 And and then there's the internal siren.

11:12 And when that clicks on then that can really rev

11:15 up the emotional or the nervous system side of it.

11:20 So the emotional side of it is typically fear,

11:23 some version of fear and shame combined.

11:26 And so there's fear of the being seen,

11:28 but there's also the shame of like if they see me,

11:31 they will find out that I am broken, right?

11:34 And so the I'm broken and the fear together

11:37 is pretty much what's going on in those moments.

11:40 Then the nervous system side is just like fight, flight, or freeze.

11:46 That's what's happening.

11:47 Often times folks when they when they are being

11:51 seen in a meeting or something like that, they'll just

11:54 they'll just freeze, right?

11:56 Or some of them will please, oh,

11:58 I'm going to I'm going to I'll say the thing

12:00 that makes everybody happy and then and then they're like, okay, great.

12:03 Yeah, just blend in.

12:05 Blend in.

12:05 And so it's one of those two things

12:07 is going to happen on the nervous system level.

12:09 And so

12:11 and it's going to be very activated.

12:12 They're going to feel hot.

12:13 they're going to feel, you know,

12:15 like a lot of charge in the system from the from the nervous system.

12:19 Yeah.

12:19 Okay.

12:19 So, you you've got you've got all these layers of a stack here.

12:22 You've got the the thoughts, the emotions,

12:24 the the nervous system, and sometimes they're just

12:28 fighting each other like intellectually somebody knows

12:30 I have something valuable to share here.

12:32 I showed up to this coaching session because I want to see through my patterns.

12:36 Yes.

12:35 And the nervous systems locked up, right?

12:38 Maybe even vice versa sometimes.

12:40 So, I I'd love to talk about now

12:42 where where can somebody start working on this first?

12:45 What's of all these different ways that this shows up?

12:48 What's a what's a good entry point

12:50 for somebody to start investigating to change the pattern?

12:54 Yeah.

12:54 So, like I I'll tell you a story.

12:56 I had dinner the other night with this husband and wife team.

13:00 They're like really super powerful, doing great stuff in the world.

13:05 And the wife, every time she saw that I saw her, she would,

13:12 you know, now she is like amazing on all fronts.

13:17 She's a beautiful person.

13:19 She's a beautiful woman, physically beautiful.

13:21 She's done crazy cool stuff in the world,

13:24 achieved stuff that most people would dream about achieving.

13:29 And as a mom and loving and sweet, like just like wow, right?

13:34 And every time I saw her, she would look up, look down,

13:38 like and it's one point in the meeting,

13:41 her husband got up, went to the bathroom,

13:46 and I started talking to her about and she

13:49 was basically saying some some version of like,

13:51 "My kids, I'm worried about my kids not getting their needs met.

13:54 I'm not worried about me

13:57 not getting my needs met." I'm like, "Oh." And she's like, "Yeah,

13:59 basically my needs are met." And I just

14:01 went through like really emotional being needs being met.

14:04 No seen.

14:05 And she just like shut down.

14:07 Her husband came back and he's like, "Well, did you open up more?

14:11 Like what did you say now that I was gone?" She goes, "No, no, no.

14:13 I just shut down even more."

14:15 And then they laughed about it.

14:16 She said it.

14:17 And then, yeah, it was great.

14:18 It was self-aware, too.

14:19 Right.

14:20 Amazing woman.

14:21 And then and then and then they both laugh together.

14:25 But that's like the quintessential thing of like, okay, well,

14:31 what is it that makes her like this amazing person,

14:35 but not being able to admit her own needs is very much

14:42 exactly the same thing as being seen and what made her scared,

14:46 which is this shame of like, oh, it's not okay for me to have needs or the needs

14:52 that I have aren't okay or who I am generally isn't okay.

14:56 And so I'm going to just evacuate all of my own things

15:02 that I need that I that I want because they must be bad.

15:07 And so those two things are part and parcel of the of the pattern.

15:12 And so if you're if you're working on the pattern,

15:15 there's lots and lots of ways to work on it.

15:18 Um, but one of the ways to work on it

15:20 is to actually open your heart to yourself and say,

15:24 "What is it that I need?" Because that flies exactly

15:29 in the face of somebody me worried about what you think

15:35 you worried about what you're you're right because I'm now worried.

15:38 I'm all about you.

15:39 I'm worried about you.

15:40 Which is another way of trying to take care of your needs.

15:42 So if if my needs in if my needs directly aren't safe, aren't welcome, aren't

15:49 good, then if I take care of yours,

15:51 then by proxy my needs might get taken care of, right?

15:54 Except for it never works, right?

15:57 Or eventually it doesn't work.

15:58 Which is why just going, oh, what do I need?

16:02 Can totally start changing this pattern at a core level.

16:05 So that's one of the ways that you can really work on how do you you know

16:09 how do you change that core un how do you change that basic fear of being seen?

16:17 Yeah.

16:17 So that's one.

16:18 The other one is to actually deeply see yourself, right?

16:22 Like what's actually true,

16:23 right?

16:23 How how does how does somebody do that?

16:25 Well, the dilemma is that most of us have like soul dysmorphia, right?

16:29 like like we see ourselves differently just the way that an anorexic

16:33 person looks in the mirror and sees themselves as fat.

16:35 Most of us sees our see ourselves like not very clearly.

16:40 And so if you want to have a clean lens of seeing yourself,

16:44 connection course view is like one of the best

16:46 ways because if you're vulnerable with yourself,

16:49 if you're impartial with yourself, if you have empathy with yourself,

16:52 if you have wonder about yourself,

16:54 that's where you start to see yourself more clearly.

16:57 And that ties together with the recognizing your own needs because you're

17:00 not going to be seeing yourself if you're just seeing everyone around you,

17:04 reading their minds, trying to fix them,

17:06 trying to get everything okay for them in order to be safe.

17:09 Yeah.

17:09 Exactly.

17:09 And so the weird part is like the vulnerable with yourself.

17:12 That's the like that's the tricky part here

17:14 because what most people think are is going

17:16 to be vulnerable is like okay vulnerably I

17:20 and I had a client that did exactly this.

17:22 I was like they had this fear of being seen.

17:25 I'm like like let's be vulnerable with yourself.

17:27 He's like, "The vulnerable thing is that everybody

17:30 doesn't like me." You know what I mean?

17:33 And I'm like, that's still about everybody else.

17:34 It's still the dysmorphia.

17:36 It's the same pattern.

17:37 And it's also you're not being vulnerable because

17:40 you've told yourself that story a hundred times.

17:43 So, what's the actual story that actually makes

17:45 you like go uh like what is that?

17:49 And like can you see someplace where somebody actually really

17:53 liked you and you couldn't acknowledge it or let it in

17:57 that and he immediately he felt how much more vulnerable that was

18:04 than to say people don't like me that wasn't vulnerable at all

18:08 and so so the only thing I'd say

18:10 the impartiality the empathy and the wonder that all clicks

18:12 with this pattern the vulnerability with yourself in this particular

18:16 pattern doesn't mean I'm admitting that I'm bad.

18:23 Yeah.

18:22 It means I'm admitting a truth about myself that I don't want to see.

18:28 Right.

18:28 And so that's that's like part of like switching that around.

18:32 Yeah.

18:32 So I mean that example brings up a really

18:34 interesting nuance which is that if you if you say,

18:36 "Okay, I want to be vulnerable with myself.

18:38 I'm going to look at myself and see

18:39 myself clearly." The first thing that's likely

18:41 to happen is you're going to see yourself

18:42 exactly the way you've been seeing yourself already.

18:45 Correct?

18:45 and you're gonna hide from yourself exactly

18:47 the things you've been hiding from yourself already.

18:50 Yeah.

18:49 So there's it seems like in that case in that coaching moment.

18:54 Yeah.

18:54 Something very specific that happened was actually directing the person's

18:58 attention to counter evidence for what they actually currently thought.

19:03 So if you're if you're going internally and you're

19:04 like what's what's vulnerable with myself right now?

19:07 Nobody likes me.

19:08 Okay.

19:09 If I just assume that that is actually the story

19:11 I've been telling myself already and I haven't seen anything new,

19:15 how do I completely invert what I think I'm seeing?

19:20 Yeah.

19:19 And look for the truth in the other side of it.

19:22 Yeah.

19:22 So the nervous system is what's going to tell you that or the like

19:26 the pucker is what's going to tell you that quicker, right?

19:28 So intellectually you can do it by just saying, "Okay,

19:32 let's look at counter evidence and what's

19:33 the counter evidence I don't want to admit to?"

19:36 Yeah.

19:35 Like that's the easy question intellectually,

19:37 right?

19:38 And that can surface the pucker like oh wait I have

19:40 actually been seen and loved before and then the pucker shows up.

19:43 Yeah.

19:43 Exactly.

19:44 And like right and then you're when when

19:46 you feel that pucker then you know you're actually

19:48 in that vulnerable place rather than in the place

19:51 that you're normally telling yourself or normally beating yourself up with.

19:55 So that's another one.

19:56 The other thing that you can do if you're scared

19:58 of being seen is to open your heart to the other person.

20:03 Because what you've done is you've stopped love

20:05 and connection from flowing between you and the other person.

20:09 You're worried about what they're going to think,

20:12 which means you've disconnected.

20:14 Yeah.

20:14 You've objectified them in a way.

20:16 There there's a way that they are now

20:18 an object in your game of self-regulating and feeling safe.

20:21 Al Also, you're rejecting them.

20:24 Yeah.

20:24 Like there's a way in which you're going to hurt me.

20:26 Basically, what you're going to what you're saying is you are going to hurt me,

20:29 which is a form of rejection.

20:31 Yeah.

20:31 And so you've already dismissed them.

20:34 And so a counteraction is to actually open your heart to them and say, "Oh,

20:39 how like how open and loving can I be

20:41 to this person?" No matter what they think or feel about me,

20:45 that doesn't mean that I'm not going to draw boundaries.

20:46 It doesn't mean I'm going to take abuse.

20:47 It doesn't mean that I'm going to be like a punching bag for somebody,

20:52 but it does mean, oh, right, I'm going to actually stay connected with you.

20:57 So it what's amazing is that if I choose to be connected with you,

21:01 it doesn't really matter if you're connected to me for my experience, right?

21:07 If I'm connected to you and you can like anybody

21:10 who's listening to this right now can just do it.

21:12 You can just say, "Okay, like deeply connect with Brett.

21:16 Brett is like not connecting with you right now.

21:19 Brett's connecting with me, but like connect with Brett and notice how

21:24 much less you give a what Brett thinks.

21:27 about you because there's and how

21:29 much that connection doesn't really require Brett.

21:34 So that's the amazing thing is like oh I can open my heart I can connect

21:37 with somebody and that dissipates my concern with what

21:41 they think about me which is like mindbogling

21:45 and like it just so reverse of the way that you think things

21:48 and it as it dissipates the concern for what they think about you

21:51 it increases the wonder for what they're

21:54 experiencing which might be thoughts about you

21:58 right

21:57 but the wonder replacing the concern is an interesting shift and opens

22:01 up the nervous system opens the sense of safety and the receptivity

22:07 to new data, new information.

22:09 Yeah.

22:09 And then wonder is another great one.

22:11 So, let's just say somebody is you you're showing up,

22:16 somebody sees you, you're like, this is going horribly wrong.

22:22 Mhm.

22:21 Like use wonder.

22:23 Oh, what are you seeing right now that's that that's got you upset?

22:29 Or how upset are you at me right now?

22:32 How are you how are you feeling about this relationship?

22:34 There's like a thousand questions that will teach you that a lot

22:38 of what you think is just not true at all about the other person.

22:42 What if the other person has been running the same pattern?

22:45 And so you ask them those questions and then they finally have

22:47 the opportunity to dismiss you and do all the stuff that you've been doing.

22:51 Yeah.

22:52 Great.

22:53 And so you take that personally.

22:54 You're like, I knew it.

22:55 I knew it.

22:56 They don't like me.

22:58 Yeah.

22:58 So let let's just assume that for a second.

23:00 Let's assume that you are not being liked by somebody.

23:07 Well, the first question is it you that showed up or is this frozen scared like

23:13 Right.

23:13 So, I'm bad cuz I get frozen and scared.

23:15 That's just me and people don't like the frozen

23:17 and scared and I don't know how to change it.

23:19 What do I do?

23:20 Right.

23:20 Exactly.

23:20 So, so the first question is like is that you?

23:24 That's the first question you have to ask yourself.

23:25 Is that frozen scared thing you?

23:28 Like what's you?

23:29 What do you have to do to show up to be you?

23:31 And the second question that's really good to ask yourself,

23:33 are you happy with you?

23:35 Is this how you want to be?

23:37 One of the things that I notice is that when

23:39 somebody's being the way that they want to be,

23:41 they care a lot less about what other people think, right?

23:46 Because they're not in their own shame.

23:48 This is actually I'm really proud of this.

23:50 So often times if someone's like preparing

23:52 for a meeting or preparing for like the first date,

23:55 they're thinking about what the other person's going to think

23:58 about them and they're trying to manage that situation.

24:01 But if they go in and say, "What's the way that I can behave that will

24:06 make me super proud no matter what happens, everything starts changing, right?"

24:13 Yeah.

24:13 So because you're loving yourself, you're opening your heart to yourself.

24:17 And the opening the heart works whether

24:19 towards the other person or towards yourself.

24:21 You're also moving from a orientation to outcomes

24:24 and more towards an orientation to something that's

24:26 a more direct feedback in yourself in the moment of how do I want to be right?

24:30 Am I the way I want to be right now?

24:32 Am I showing up how I want to show up?

24:33 And then everything else that happens,

24:34 I don't need to be tracking, predicting, futuring, taking personally.

24:40 All those things get to fall away if my direct feedback for my behavior

24:45 is if I'm showing up in a way that feels great to me.

24:49 Right.

24:50 Which is another version of what is it that I need?

24:54 Yeah.

24:54 Right.

24:54 It's another version of that which is oh if

24:58 I'm going to be proud of myself in this moment, how do I want to behave?

25:02 And but so so none of these things are going to work absolutely

25:07 except for if you have the access to be able to open your heart.

25:10 That one's like a very quick absolute thing.

25:13 So what happens for other folks is they're like, I want to behave this way,

25:16 but then they get in there and they're in that nervous

25:18 system fight or flight or freeze because oh my gosh,

25:22 I'm, you know, like this it's like this deep trauma of it.

25:25 And so there's another way of working with it which is just exposure.

25:30 M

25:31 so you see this happen a lot when people do our work all of our courses there's

25:35 a lot of being seen and as they are

25:39 seen they become more and more comfortable with themselves

25:42 I mean it's this amazing thing so you know

25:46 how many people have we seen go through the connection

25:48 course and they get deeply seen by five different people

25:51 over the series of the course and then they're they're

25:54 just like so much more comfortable in who they

25:56 are and so it's the same thing that you see

25:59 in like 12step programs or group therapy where the more

26:04 I speak about the thing and I'm seen in it,

26:07 the less I care what people think, you know?

26:11 So, I remember there was a time when I was in my 20s and I'm like,

26:14 "My dad's an alcoholic and everybody's going to judge me." Now, I'm like,

26:16 "Yeah, my dad's an alcoholic." I'll say it on like public everywhere.

26:20 It doesn't like, "Yeah, my dad was an alcoholic." I don't see

26:23 that at because I have no shame around it anymore.

26:26 Yeah.

26:26 And the places that I am I'm not where

26:30 I'm scared to be seen are the places where I

26:33 have the shame and which gives tells me this is

26:36 the place where I have the freedom and shame.

26:39 One of the best ways to to just address

26:42 the shame is to share it with people and notice, oh, they're not ashamed.

26:47 They don't think there's something broken with me.

26:50 Or to notice, wow, we all have that.

26:52 Like every like everybody has a parent, not everybody.

26:56 Most people have a parent that was addicted to something somehow,

26:58 emotion, television,

27:00 something like most people have shame, most people have fear,

27:05 most people like these are all human experiences.

27:08 Yeah.

27:08 Yeah.

27:08 So, it's interesting.

27:09 It's like both of the ways out are either recognizing I'm

27:12 not alone in thinking this or I was alone in thinking this.

27:15 Like this was only a thought in my own

27:16 head like I'm the only one I invented this.

27:19 Exactly.

27:19 It's kind of funny how that's like both of those seem to be a way out.

27:23 Both.

27:23 Yeah.

27:23 And and and and the exposure just oh I

27:28 am going to little ways be seen every day.

27:32 Yeah.

27:33 And the thing that that does is that most of the people who

27:35 who feel or are scared of being seen but want to be seen,

27:39 another experience that they have a lot of is that they're lonely.

27:42 And so this stops the loneliness.

27:45 So like recently I was talking to my daughter and she was just noticing

27:50 like she's got friends in college and everything like that and she's she's like,

27:53 "Oh, I'm starting to feel lonely." And my question to her was like,

27:57 "What are the ways that you're not being yourself?

28:00 What are the ways that you're not showing up asking for what you want,

28:02 saying what's wrong, having the hard conversations?

28:06 Because if you aren't doing that, you're not actually with anybody.

28:10 You're all you're by yourself in this reality.

28:14 And so, literally, I think it was like 3 days later,

28:17 cuz you know, Esme is amazing.

28:19 She she called me up and she was like,

28:23 "I've had three hard conversations in two days.

28:26 I feel so much better.

28:28 I've like had these like I just looked everywhere that I

28:32 wasn't saying the thing or being the person that I

28:34 wanted to be and I just did it and I feel

28:36 so much better and it's and it happens just like that.

28:39 It's amazing how quickly loneliness can be cured if you actually show up

28:44 in a way that you're proud of saying the things that are important to you.

28:47 Yeah.

28:47 And I also want to talk about another aspect of the shame and in this pattern

28:50 which is often people will show up with I I really want to be seen.

28:56 I should be seen.

28:57 I should be doing a thing.

28:58 I should go have the hard conversations.

28:59 And so that exact uh set of behaviors

29:02 you just described could be somebody something that somebody

29:05 tries to force themselves into or beat themselves

29:07 up into as a part of this pattern.

29:10 What would you say to to that to somebody who's like

29:13 I should really show up more.

29:14 I should really be seen.

29:15 I should really be vulnerable.

29:17 What I would say is I would point back to the beginning

29:21 which is what do you need to take care of yourself?

29:24 What what do you need to open to your heart to yourself and to other people?

29:27 Because that framing prevents it from being I should do this, I should do that.

29:31 I should do this other thing because there's a like a self-care,

29:35 there's a love, there's an expansion in that feeling.

29:39 There's an opening up to yourself and to the other person.

29:43 Yeah.

29:43 And so that can't coexist with you should do this.

29:45 What's wrong with you?

29:46 D.

29:47 Yeah.

29:47 Your question is a great pointer because it

29:50 is emotionally going from what what what to oh

29:59 I can actually just love this moment you myself

30:03 and that's really what's changing on the emotional level

30:06 is you're going from a contraction to an openness

30:09 whether it's through wonder or whether it's through love

30:12 or whether it's through admitting and owning your needs

30:15 or what would I be proud out of there.

30:18 All these things are emotionally opening you

30:20 up to the experience of what's going on.

30:23 And when you are closed down and contracted emotionally,

30:26 you're not actually experiencing reality.

30:30 Yeah.

30:29 You're experiencing your thought of what reality is.

30:32 But what about also the need for safety?

30:35 If if my if I see myself as bad or wrong for hiding,

30:38 for all the hiding I've done in my life,

30:40 what about acknowledging the need to feel comfort, the need to feel safe,

30:45 that that pattern provided for me even while it limited me in many ways.

30:50 Awesome.

30:51 Yeah, I think that's a great thing to do.

30:54 Yeah.

30:53 Right.

30:53 That's another version of loving yourself.

30:55 That's another version of like honoring who you are.

30:58 So addressing this pattern isn't about, oh,

31:01 I've been doing it wrong all this time.

31:03 I've been hiding and I should be getting out there and getting seen.

31:07 Correct.

31:08 Yeah.

31:07 Yeah.

31:08 Correct.

31:08 Yeah.

31:08 Yeah.

31:09 Like if you beat yourself up then you are

31:12 like we talked about this earlier in the episode.

31:14 If you're beating yourself up then you are

31:17 now the eye of siren turned on yourself.

31:23 Yeah.

31:21 So any way in which you are like putting that same criticism

31:26 on yourself to undo that is going to be incredibly useful for this pattern.

31:32 Right?

31:32 Because that self-criticism is the shame, right?

31:35 And so any way that you can really look at that shame and there's

31:41 lots of ways to look at the shame and and start to unwind it,

31:44 one is with people that we talked about,

31:47 but another way to really look at that shame

31:49 and unwind the shame is to just ask yourself,

31:53 would you criticize somebody else for it?

31:57 And that for some people that's going to get rid of like 80% of it.

32:00 Oh, so somebody else was like scared as a kid and they learned to hide.

32:04 Do you think especially if it's somebody they care a lot about?

32:06 Exactly.

32:07 Did you are they an Are they bad?

32:10 Do they need to be fixed?

32:13 Right.

32:13 And so that's another way to just really quickly say, "Oh, wait.

32:17 If it wasn't me, would I treat myself this way?" Yeah.

32:20 So, I want to leave people with one

32:22 like specific concrete thing that they can do.

32:24 Yeah.

32:24 next time they show up to say a meeting

32:27 or a tense conversation with their partner and they're freezing up,

32:31 they're hiding, they recognize this patterns alive,

32:34 this podcast is ringing in their head

32:37 and that little tiny part of the lyic system that's still active.

32:42 Yeah.

32:41 Is like, what do I do?

32:42 What what's a thing?

32:44 Open your heart to that person.

32:47 Mhm.

32:47 So, stop objectifying them.

32:49 Recognize that you've already cut yourself off from them.

32:52 You're judging them.

32:53 You're basically saying in that moment, you're going to attack me.

32:58 You're a bad person.

33:00 You only care about yourself.

33:02 You can't see me.

33:05 And you're totally self-obsessed and focused on you.

33:11 That's what you're saying about the other person.

33:12 So, you've already like fully disconnected and and you're

33:15 worried about what they're thinking about you,

33:17 but you're basically thinking all those things about them.

33:21 you're like and you right like and that's the hard thing for people

33:27 to like really just grock is like oh if I'm scared about what

33:30 you're going to say about me I have judged you I have I

33:33 have categorized you I've boxed you I I've made you into an enemy

33:40 like which is everything you're scared that they're going to do to you've

33:42 already done to them and look they don't seem to give a

33:46 yeah which I I and I think that's where like A lot of the fear

33:51 when people come to a coaching session about this comes from is, oh,

33:55 if I actually see how I've been treating myself

33:57 and I see the way that I've been treating others,

34:00 then I have to feel a ton of grief.

34:02 That's right.

34:03 And possibly in front of these 300 people on this call.

34:06 Right.

34:06 Yep.

34:07 But in front of myself.

34:09 Yeah.

34:10 Especially.

34:09 Exactly.

34:10 Because that's what shame's job is is

34:12 to is to stagnate an emotional experience, right?

34:17 And so when that shame relieves,

34:20 there's going to be grief and other emotions that need

34:23 to be felt that are are going to be scary.

34:26 Yeah.

34:26 Like you might find yourself on a podcast and be like,

34:28 I'm Joe Hudson and I just realized that I've

34:31 been pronouncing I have Sauron wrong this entire episode.

34:34 I knew I was doing that.

34:36 What is is it Sauron or Siren?

34:38 S I've still got it wrong.

34:39 Siren.

34:40 I'm going to call it Siren.

34:41 What?

34:41 Yeah, Siren.

34:42 Go for it.

34:43 Sauron.

34:44 Yeah, exactly.

34:45 It's horrible.

34:46 Everybody's gonna judge me.

34:48 Everybody who judges Joe for that, please.

34:50 They're already commenting.

34:51 It's already been there.

34:53 It's been happening.

34:55 What a pleasure.

34:56 Pleasure to be with you.

34:57 Yeah, you too, Joe.