We asked Hollywood Editors

0:00 Today I'm talking to the editor of Frankenstein,

0:02 the co-editors of Predator: Badlands, and the editor of Conjuring:

0:05 The Last Right to pick their brains on their editing process.

0:08 I'm constantly trying to level up as a director and editor,

0:11 and these guys have some insane knowledge about the craft of storytelling.

0:15 And one of the biggest perks to Film Riot is that it gives me

0:17 an excuse to reach out to talented friends and talk to them about these topics,

0:21 both to share with you and for my own selfish gain.

0:24 So, let's jump right in with some editing tips.

0:26 The first thing I asked all of them was,

0:28 "What is the first thing that you do when starting to cut any scene?"

0:32 If I have time to watch all of the dailies before I start cutting,

0:35 then then I'll do that.

0:36 And then it becomes sort of a little bit

0:38 of of like winnowing down what I actually do have time for.

0:40 So, if I don't have time for the full dailies, then I'll watch just the selects.

0:43 And if I don't have time for the full selects, then I will pick one, you know,

0:47 probably usually the last full take of any setup and I'll

0:50 watch that just so I get a sense of like,

0:52 okay, this these are all of the angles and all

0:55 of the the movements of the camera that I have access to.

0:58 And then that helps me start thinking in my head about like,

1:00 okay, this is an in for the scene I need.

1:02 This is a great shot in the middle of the scene and this is how I want to end.

1:05 I watch all the dailies first and really just kind of hone in.

1:08 Usually it'll be like, oh my god, that was great.

1:10 You know, that thing was great.

1:11 that moment was great and that becomes sort of the foundation for the scene.

1:16 It's like I know I want to use that.

1:18 I got to use that now.

1:19 If I'm going to use that, how am I going to build to it?

1:21 Or, you know, if it's not the beginning

1:23 of the scene and or it's the end of the scene,

1:25 how am I going to get to it or how am I going to come off of it?

1:28 I will revisit the script.

1:29 Um, I'll quickly reread the scene.

1:32 I'll also look at script supervisor notes just to get any idea

1:35 if there was any preferred takes or anything that the came from set.

1:39 Then after my assistants organize my dailies,

1:42 I have them usually quickly put together all the takes in one sequence laid

1:48 out in shot order from take 1 to 10 or whatever in a camera,

1:52 B camera, back to back.

1:54 And um I'll watch it all.

1:55 I'm looking at like, oh,

1:56 this is an amazing keystone shot that I know that we're going

1:59 to use or the most perfect performance that's going to be like I'm going

2:03 to build it out from there and try to get to a quick

2:07 assembly that I can then start even hunting and pecking for better pieces.

2:12 And that idea of a keystone moment when

2:15 starting in on a scene came up with everyone.

2:17 Many of them mentioning how they would start

2:19 with a standout moment from the dailies and work from there.

2:22 I don't work completely backwards, but like yeah,

2:25 you you find like a really compelling piece of dialogue

2:28 or like performed like strong and you're like, you know what,

2:31 I'm going to go to the mat for this shot, this piece, and then yeah,

2:34 you you kind of build on either side and work your way out.

2:37 But I do find that how you start a scene really does dictate how it becomes.

2:42 The first shot you pick,

2:43 I actually think has way more importance than

2:46 people realize because it becomes this weird keystone

2:50 foundation brick that you've laid down that like

2:52 I've just picked because I'm by myself editing,

2:55 directors out usually shooting during that time.

2:57 You're hoping that you've picked correctly and that your foundation

3:00 is strong and then you just build off of that.

3:03 I don't think I've ever done this building from a standout shot or moment,

3:06 but it makes complete sense and is

3:08 something that I will be trying going forward.

3:10 And when I was talking with Stfan about getting a scene together,

3:14 he really emphasized the importance of sound, even in the early cut stages.

3:18 See this guys?

3:20 $20.

3:22 Ryan just sent me this.

3:23 That's why I'm here.

3:24 I think sound is a super important thing for presentation.

3:27 was certainly less important in the past,

3:29 but now when we're doing playbacks or, you know,

3:32 when I'm trying to pitch an idea, the closest I can get it to sound finished,

3:38 picture is never going to look finished.

3:41 But sound, you can you can, you know,

3:43 you want to cut off these avenues to it feeling wrong.

3:46 You want to say like, okay, well, the sound's not messed up and the music is

3:50 doing what it needs to do and stuff like that.

3:52 Or it's the mistake, I'm sure, that you encounter.

3:53 We were talking about this earlier.

3:55 You encounter where people do a short film and it

3:57 looks great and it's like the sound is messed up.

4:00 You're like, "Well, you don't know that that's

4:02 like just as important, if not more." So,

4:05 I look for ways to just like what what whatever you're working

4:08 on, finding ways to push it as close to finished as possible.

4:12 And I found that that is sound and music and mixing.

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5:36 Let's ask a question or answer one.

5:41 I'm so sorry.

5:42 But even with your sound in place to smooth out the cut as much as possible,

5:46 you're inevitably going to have problems to solve.

5:48 Be it with the scene as a whole or performance issues.

5:51 You know, often there's there's problems around it.

5:54 Usually, like sometimes it's the scene itself is not working

5:57 because it's not fitting into the puzzle right, you know, yet.

6:00 It uh, you know, there's something that happened

6:02 before that isn't reflected in this scene

6:04 or there's something that's coming after that this scene isn't setting up right.

6:07 And that's sort of, you know, how you're you're kind of molding the scenes

6:11 within the bigger framework of the movie.

6:13 So, I don't know that there's like a trick or anything,

6:16 but it's sort of like going through all the footage again and finding out why

6:20 those moments aren't landing the way you

6:22 thought they were when you were initially assembling.

6:25 And usually the answer is because, well,

6:26 it didn't it it wasn't set up right earlier and or it didn't pay off later.

6:31 And how do we change that?

6:32 or how do we change the the tone of a character because that tone

6:36 in that scene doesn't fit what he was

6:39 or she was doing earlier or later, you know,

6:42 if it's not working for like a character reason,

6:44 then I start diving into like alternate takes to see like maybe if I

6:48 if it's like an unlikable character

6:51 or that something about the performance isn't jelling,

6:53 you know, then you have to go reassess

6:55 those decisions you made when you first did the assembly.

6:57 And often you can find, you know,

6:59 variation in an actor's performance and pick something new or pick a, you know,

7:04 either one new take that you sprinkle throughout the whole scene or a variety

7:07 of takes that support changing the feeling of that scene for that character.

7:10 But yeah, it's often sort of diving in and seeing like what do I have

7:14 in my dailies that is different than what is

7:16 currently in the cut and can I use that?

7:21 If I can, I like to just stick with one take.

7:24 And I think having talked to some actors that didn't exactly

7:27 like realize how much their performances can get chopped up in editorial,

7:30 I know the actors prefer that also because then

7:32 at least like there is a continuity that you

7:34 can feel in that where if you can pick

7:37 like one base take that's like this I love,

7:39 you know, if it's not 100% I love 90% of the performance in this take

7:43 and maybe there's a couple of moments where you steal from a different take.

7:46 But I think you can feel if every time you

7:48 cut back to an actor you're on a different take.

7:50 I think you can you can feel that.

7:52 And so I try to just stick with, you know,

7:54 the fewest number of an actor's takes as possible.

7:57 Second to that, you can decide, you know,

7:59 when you're going to be on an actor and when you're going to be off an actor.

8:02 And sometimes, you know, the the looks,

8:04 an actor's looks responding to somebody else's line can be

8:08 just as powerful as like seeing that line on camera.

8:10 And so those are, you know,

8:11 your really kind of your big choices to make is like when am I

8:14 watching a character speak and when am

8:16 I watching somebody listen to a character speak?

8:18 hunt for and cherish amazing reaction shots.

8:21 Don't ever underestimate just somebody listening to what's happening or they

8:26 give them a line read and then stay on them

8:29 and let them like feel the response of what they

8:31 put out into that scene or into the universe that they're, you know, living in.

8:35 I think staying on actors faces, their eyes,

8:39 letting people listen and take in information.

8:42 Not only do they let you tighten scenes up

8:44 and trim because you can cut away to them, but they have so much more weight

8:48 when it comes to performance from my experience.

8:51 And all this made me think about production

8:53 as a director when I'm getting my coverage.

8:55 What are some things that I'm not thinking about

8:57 that would help fix some of those problems in post?

9:00 And Stefan had some amazing tips on exactly that.

9:07 When I walk in, I exist in quiet.

9:10 [music] in no less than 45 minutes.

9:15 Yeah.

9:15 Like what the what were you asking about?

9:20 Give me entries and exits.

9:22 I don't care what the scene plan is.

9:23 Like give me a character entering or exiting.

9:26 You never know when it's going to be helpful.

9:28 I also always ask when we're doing a dialogue

9:30 scene for coverage that's not tied to the character's faces.

9:35 I find this is the most helpful material because actors

9:39 act with their whole bodies and I mean it's trickier obviously

9:42 with L since she was half a body but you never

9:45 know what actually be doing with their hands or their feet.

9:47 It's good to have that kind of insurance so

9:49 that we can cover the scene off of the actor's faces.

9:52 I would say uh knowing things are

9:54 going to change in post-production in editorial.

9:57 One great thing to do is once you've locked down a scene,

10:01 the dialogue scene specifically, once you've got what you need and you feel like

10:06 you can move on, shoot the scene again with no dialogue,

10:09 and have your actors act out the scene.

10:11 You know, you're tracking emotion, but there's just no dialogue.

10:14 And I've found that to be so helpful.

10:16 It's like glue.

10:17 It's all of a sudden you have this kind of Elmer's

10:19 glue to work with where if anything goes wrong in the scene,

10:22 you got to lose a line of dialogue or rewrite a line

10:24 of dialogue or maybe you realize in doing this you don't need dialogue,

10:28 but you have the kind of emotional material that you need.

10:31 I mean, just do it.

10:32 It's great.

10:33 Useful in ways you can not predict.

10:36 The no dialogue tip might be my favorite of the entire episode.

10:40 Maybe it's not something I would do every time,

10:42 but picking up for the scenes that could use it is just genius.

10:46 And I could see how that would

10:47 really help with something like building tension inside

10:49 of a scene since for me a lot

10:51 of tension is found in those prolonged moments or silences.

10:57 Sure.

10:57 I mean, you know, there's tension and then there's jump scares.

11:00 And um, you know, I guess that's sort of like the tension just like any comedy.

11:04 It's like the setup and the punchline, you know.

11:07 This is like tension's just like the buildup

11:09 and then the jump scare, so to speak.

11:10 To me, it's just remembering that what you don't see,

11:14 what the audience doesn't see, what the audience is withheld from is the most

11:18 important piece of information that creates the tension.

11:22 You know, if it's something down the hall and you kind of tease

11:26 that there's something down there and then you're hanging on the person's face,

11:29 the longer you stay on that person's face and don't reveal what

11:32 they're looking at, the more you're imagining what's going on back there,

11:36 the audience, the more the tension builds.

11:38 So to me that's the number one thing.

11:41 I mean it's the same thing in a dialogue scene.

11:43 You know if two people are having a conversation

11:46 but like you knew that like under the table somebody

11:50 had a gun pulled that whole conversation is tense

11:54 and it could be just them talking about ordering scrambled eggs.

11:57 You know what I mean?

11:57 But like you you know and so like you set

12:00 up something and now you've withhold what's going to happen.

12:03 to me.

12:04 Like I think hiding the thing the most and staying with the perspective

12:08 of the character that you're invested in is usually my number one tip.

12:13 And all of this revolves around pacing.

12:16 And I would say along with sound, pacing is what I always have the most

12:20 notes on whenever newer filmmakers send me their work.

12:23 It is something tough to get right.

12:25 So I asked Evan not only how he finds the right tempo for a scene,

12:28 but how he sticks to it.

12:32 you know, my assemblies are are also very airy, you know,

12:36 and you know that because it's easier to cut time

12:38 out than it is to add it back later on.

12:39 I usually start with just sort of, you know,

12:42 how it feels in a very dry assembly state

12:45 and then as you get the rest of the film,

12:47 you know, around it, you inevitably feel like, okay,

12:49 this is now too slow and I need to start pacing it up.

12:51 I liken it to like a ratchet, you know,

12:53 where like you just like you tighten that scene and it's okay for a second

12:56 and you tighten it again and you tighten it again and you keep going,

12:58 you know, until you lock you.

13:00 You can definitely get to a point where you've cut too much air out.

13:02 For me, it's a very physical reaction where like I'm watching something

13:06 and I can feel my body tense up if like it's too cuddy,

13:09 you know, it's too fast, the characters lines are all on top of each other,

13:12 you know, I've like I've overcorrected in that case

13:15 and then then it's going back and, [music] you know,

13:17 adding some some moments back in and some error and some,

13:20 you know, meaningful pauses and things like that.

13:23 Your judgment has to change [music] as the film changes.

13:26 And so, you know, a scene could have exactly

13:29 could be exactly the same as when you did

13:30 the assembly and [music] feel too slow in the assembly

13:33 and too fast later on or vice versa,

13:35 you know, and it just really depends on what's, you know,

13:38 what you're looking at and how the film has evolved.

13:40 I love what he said about tensing up.

13:42 I can totally relate to that.

13:43 But eventually, you've seen this thing that you're

13:45 cutting over and over and over again,

13:47 and I find it incredibly hard to maintain an objective lens on the project.

13:52 Everyone here had the same great tip of making sure you're showing

13:55 your work and getting feedback

13:57 from fellow filmmakers and general audience viewings.

14:00 But Stefan said something extra that I hadn't thought of before.

14:05 I mean, this is the thing I ask every

14:07 day and kind of the biggest challenge I think daily.

14:10 So, how do you retain perspective?

14:12 For me, having a partner is a great way cuz I

14:15 constantly have Dave's ears to play against his ears and eyes.

14:19 And then you have your extended team,

14:21 which is this other kind of circle of objectivity where

14:25 uh I can have a sequence and I hand it off

14:27 to our incredible sound effects team and they bring it

14:31 to life in a way that I wasn't counting on or imagining.

14:34 So it's going to feel totally different.

14:36 That's how I retain objectivity is like the people around you.

14:40 Letting the people around you do their jobs and letting you, you know,

14:45 watch effectively a different version of the movie

14:48 through the work of other people.

14:49 That's the benefit to having a big team like we did on on this film.

14:54 And to finish it off, David and Stefan shared one little trick that they do

14:57 in their timelines that I will absolutely be stealing from here on out.

15:03 Something that I learned on this film

15:05 on Predator um from uh the other editor Stefan,

15:09 you can put an effect on a track, an audio track, uh of reverb,

15:15 and rather than it you putting the effect on the clip,

15:17 you can put it on the whole track.

15:19 Tanya Swirling is an editor I met years ago.

15:21 She cut Clooney's last two movies.

15:23 She's incredible editor.

15:24 I love her.

15:25 She taught me this great trick that now I use all the time,

15:29 which is I have dedicated sound effects tracks that are treatment tracks.

15:33 So, I'll have dialogue effects like built into the sequence.

15:37 So, I have a reverb track for sound effects and a reverb track for music.

15:43 And it allows you to quickly have things ring out,

15:46 a a piece of music that didn't end properly.

15:48 You can make it ring out over the next scene or or whatever.

15:51 It was some convoluted way.

15:53 I used to do these reverb bringouts that was like subcliffing and do

15:57 doing all these technical things and now just in the track it's just

15:59 like oh there it is you know there I want that to reverb

16:02 I just bring it down to that track and and it'll reverb out

16:04 you know it softens everything cleans up any bad audio and that was from Tanya

16:09 swirling man those are handy little tidbits handy little tidbits for all of us

16:16 but that's it we do have some extra nuggets of wisdom from the guys that we're

16:20 going to be posting to our Instagram and other socials over the next 2 weeks.

16:23 So, check the links below and follow us there for that.

16:25 And a massive thank you to Evan, Elliot, David,

16:28 and Stefan for taking the time out

16:30 of their schedules to share their hard-earned knowledge with us.

16:32 And check below for links for all of them there as well.

16:35 And I'll be leaving you with one more thought from Stfan.

16:37 So, until next time, don't forget to write, shoot, edit, repeat.

16:40 If the people you're working with every day,

16:42 [music] if you do not enjoy those people, that is the most important check box.

16:47 Not everybody checks that box.

16:48 Not everybody can check that box, but I check that box.

16:51 It's more important than anything else for me cuz the box that should

16:54 be automatically checked is like are we trying to make a great thing.

16:57 If you if you don't feel confident about the answer to that question,

17:01 you're [music] certainly working with the wrong people.

17:04 Right?

17:04 So that's just a given.

17:05 We're all trying.

17:06 We won't always do it, but we will always try to make something great.

17:10 But the most important box are like, man,

17:12 I'm going to be with these people all the time.

17:15 So [music] are my days worth it?

17:18 And um certainly that is the case with this team

17:21 like we had the best time working together and we

17:25 have consistently you know but that's unusual but it should

17:28 be the thing that we all seek out you know see you later talk