Laurie Gallardo | (SPF 1000) Vampire Sunscreen | Alex Maas

0:01 [screaming] I don't know.

0:12 We usually just begin just by talking.

0:15 My gosh, you and I were talking up a storm.

0:18 Yeah, continue.

0:18 I mean, we should.

0:20 But before before we do that,

0:23 uh need to ask a tiny favor.

0:25 Um, I want you to tell everybody who you are and what it is you do.

0:31 Okay.

0:31 Uh, my name is Alex Moss and I am a musician

0:37 and I play in a band called the Black Angels and um,

0:41 I've been in Austin for 25 years now, which is kind of crazy.

0:46 We we met um, probably around that time, 20 years ago plus.

0:52 Um, so yeah, I I'm a musician.

0:55 That's what I do.

0:57 I remember.

1:01 And you told me this.

1:02 You had to remind me because I forgot.

1:04 Hey, remember when my band opened for yours?

1:06 Yeah, the platforms.

1:08 I totally remember.

1:10 Was that at Red Seven?

1:12 It was at Flamingo.

1:14 Flamingo.

1:14 Okay.

1:14 But do we Okay.

1:17 I thought we did something at Red Seven or something like that.

1:19 I thought so, too.

1:20 I don't know.

1:21 May

1:23 maybe

1:23 there might have been a couple shows in there.

1:25 I think so.

1:27 Yeah.

1:27 I'm like, what are you talking about?

1:28 Your band doesn't open for anyone.

1:30 And [laughter] then

1:31 I remember I it was so funny because um I remember

1:35 wearing a wig that I didn't want to have on.

1:38 We're still We were still We were really excited then

1:40 and we're still excited that we opened up for you still.

1:45 There's a there's a lot there because uh

1:49 I was sharing some memories with a friend recently

1:53 and I said not only that but this is

1:56 the band that throws back Don't Behave at me.

2:01 Oh yeah.

2:01 You know on the regular and and as you should.

2:04 As you should which is how I close my show in the afternoon.

2:11 Yes.

2:10 And and it's a rally and cry now.

2:13 Yes.

2:13 And oh shoot, I was that's what I was going

2:18 to talk about before we really go on a roll.

2:24 Yeah.

2:22 The time that you and Christian and Jennifer

2:27 when Jennifer was in the Black Angels,

2:29 all three of you scared the crap out of us one Halloween time.

2:35 We had just played Beerland or something

2:39 and these very creepy scientists came up to us

2:46 at Egos

2:47 at I think it was Egos and I was like I don't know who they are.

2:51 And of course June uh June Higgins the person who created our band

2:58 she just fell over laughing because it dawned on her who it was.

3:02 You all were so disguised.

3:05 It was unnerving and my skin was

3:07 crawling and June just thought it was hilarious.

3:10 Yeah, you you know it would

3:12 it blew my mind because you did it so well.

3:15 I think there's photos out there.

3:17 I I don't remember [laughter] and uh and well played well.

3:23 Quite the memory there.

3:25 [laughter] So, now that I have the the brain rolling,

3:29 um I always say uh now that I have you here and now in the music library.

3:34 Yes,

3:35 it's pretty cool.

3:36 Nice.

3:36 Told you a little darker.

3:39 Yeah.

3:38 So fitting for this podcast.

3:40 Um Alex, now that I have you here,

3:42 I'm going to ask you the question of questions.

3:46 Alex, what is the darkness to you?

3:49 What is dark to you?

3:52 Well, I uh yeah, that's a really good question.

3:55 Um because without all the good things, you don't have the darkness, right?

4:01 So, I guess the darkness is all the good stuff gone, right?

4:08 [laughter] That's that's the easy answer to that one.

4:13 True.

4:12 Um yeah, I you know, darkness is is is in music.

4:18 It's a beautiful thing for for me like

4:21 personally it's what I kind of fly towards um

4:26 the kind of the dark brooding sound of music

4:29 with a sweet melody or vice versa you know something

4:32 just that combination is um interesting again but you know

4:38 yeah just darkness is good darkness it's [laughter] like it's a good thing um

4:45 I seem to think so because it it's been I I really

4:51 am kind of disappointed when when people think it's such a negative space.

4:57 I think plenty of areas you need that darkness to reflect.

5:04 Absolutely.

5:03 To study your conscience.

5:06 I don't know.

5:06 I mean listening to the way you write

5:13 even if I don't know specifically the story behind

5:16 a particular song whether it's with the black

5:20 angels whether it's your solo work anything with mean

5:25 um but there there are those dark undertones I I I'm you know I was um wondering

5:33 what brought me to the black angels and I

5:35 was like it is definitely this dark sensibility.

5:40 Um, and you do have subject matter, everything from the horrible uh, you know,

5:50 the horrible things resulting from Vietnam to something as so

5:57 close to home as living in a haunted house.

6:01 So, I don't know, to be selfish, it's got Lori written all over it.

6:05 [laughter] Yeah.

6:06 I mean, it's something that you fly towards the darkness.

6:09 I mean, it's I guess you're a bat.

6:13 I am.

6:14 I figured that you all If you're a bat, I'm a bat.

6:16 [laughter] We We all got the colony.

6:19 Yeah, that's true.

6:21 Colony of bats.

6:21 The only colony I like.

6:23 Um I don't know.

6:25 I just maybe I kind of wanted to pick your brain about your inspirations,

6:33 your influences because and I I mean I think I'm just kind

6:37 of um branching off of Rocky Ericson obviously that's near and dear

6:44 and to look at Rocky's life.

6:47 Yeah, that's kind of unbelievable kind of what happened,

6:51 you know, to him and his whole whole story.

6:55 Um, yeah, that's pretty dark.

6:58 Pretty dark scenario.

7:00 Yeah.

7:01 Um, so what was the question?

7:03 [laughter] Sorry.

7:04 It's okay.

7:05 Um, I was just on a I think to get on a tangent,

7:08 your influences, and I know that's a broad spectrum.

7:11 I mean, I think early on my influences, you know,

7:15 kind of flowery kind of Beatlesy kind of things.

7:17 And you know, when I first heard Mazy Star,

7:21 Velvet Underground, that whole other world,

7:24 it just made the the Beatles just seemed

7:26 like like powdered sugar or something, you know?

7:30 It just like So, I don't know.

7:33 When I I remember the first time I heard

7:35 Venus and Furs by Bell Underground, I was like, "Wow,

7:37 this is that song kind of changed my whole perspective on what music would

7:43 be for the rest of my life." I was I'm still stuck in that dungeon.

7:47 Like I can't get out of it.

7:48 I don't know why.

7:50 But um it's a nice place to be.

7:52 Like I Yeah, I think as an artist you want to just

7:57 go towards things that you that make you feel a certain way, right?

8:01 So not that really pretty songs don't make me feel something great.

8:06 No.

8:06 No.

8:06 I Yeah.

8:07 It's like that's it's it's just that

8:09 and and I love, you know, as as an artist being able to have

8:12 the liberty to jump back and forth between really dark,

8:16 brooding music and something that's, you know, makes me feel a different way.

8:21 Um, but at the end of the day, they both make me feel period.

8:26 And then, you know, whatever direction after the period is,

8:29 it's it doesn't really matter.

8:30 So, it's the fact that it makes you feel in general,

8:33 that's just like the only thing that matters.

8:36 Um, to me, I'm beginning to think that darkness is that absence of feeling.

8:47 Yeah,

8:47 maybe I'm [clears throat] making it a little person.

8:49 No, no, no, [laughter] no, no, no.

8:50 I mean, uh, that's that's that's probably

8:54 that's what my therapist probably says, too.

8:57 But you're right.

8:58 It is [snorts] maybe the ab absence, but within that, you know,

9:01 there's there's definitely some kind of electrifying thing within the darkness.

9:05 [clears throat] I remember being really young and um I don't know,

9:09 five or six and not understanding the darkness.

9:11 This is something I'm just kind of thinking about right now.

9:14 Walking past a door in my grandparents house

9:17 that the lights were off like and just,

9:19 you know, just this creepy house or whatever.

9:22 Yeah.

9:22 Um or it was creepy cuz I was five and the lights were

9:24 and I remember this just electrifying feeling coming out of the the room

9:28 just it was just like just kind of like shocking.

9:31 I was just like gh I get like chills thinking about it.

9:34 But

9:34 that that that feel that feeling of what whatever was existing in that room

9:40 is kind of what I'm trying to understand as an artist maybe.

9:43 I don't know.

9:44 I'm just kind of putting that together.

9:45 So thank you.

9:46 That's incredible.

9:47 Yeah.

9:48 There there's something about that moment that really was

9:51 sticking with me when we were talking about it.

9:54 Um yeah, that's weird.

9:57 I mean, something like that obviously is going to be so

10:00 impressionable on a 5-year-old mind when you take it with you

10:05 for the rest of your life so far.

10:07 Yeah.

10:07 And understanding it, unpeeling, you know,

10:10 peeling back layers of it and realizing it just gets darker the more you go.

10:14 It never get it.

10:15 Never.

10:15 There's not like, oh, there's hot pink behind that one.

10:17 No.

10:18 [laughter]

10:20 Right.

10:19 Darker.

10:19 Darker.

10:20 [snorts]

10:23 That Oh, things like that are so freaky.

10:27 I have dreams that I remember from when I was really little.

10:31 And apparently um my parents had been talking about this and my mom's like,

10:36 "You actually have memories that go back that far?" And I was like,

10:40 "Yeah." And my dad said, "Well, I'm the same.

10:42 I remember things from when I was three and a lot of people uh don't but I

10:47 I very vividly remember certain dreams um growing up Catholic.

10:54 My mom has a a statue of Jesus.

10:56 It's you know it's not huge.

10:57 It's a it's a little one.

11:00 But um in this particular dream,

11:04 I just remember going through our old house in central El Paso and I think I

11:12 was in my bed and I sat up and I looked and coming around the door,

11:17 it was the statue, but it had been made into a windup doll.

11:23 Oh gosh.

11:23 And it was walking around the corner.

11:26 Whoa.

11:26 That's That's brutal.

11:29 Yeah, that one would stick with me.

11:31 Yeah,

11:32 100%.

11:32 It stayed with me.

11:33 Feeling this the same feeling I'm talking about of that dark room.

11:36 It's just like and like you kind of can't

11:39 look away from it and just like something that

11:41 you know

11:42 I've had dreams where I've like can't look away

11:44 from the scary thing like I can't move my head.

11:47 What's up with that?

11:48 [laughter]

11:49 You can't like Shouldn't there be like a button that you

11:52 can push and you can look away from the darkness?

11:53 But well maybe that's when we learn early on.

11:57 Yeah, not really.

11:58 There's no button.

11:58 No, there's no button.

12:00 Um, that's a good point that you cannot turn away.

12:04 You're just kind of frozen.

12:07 Yeah, but I mean people do like may maybe it was just certain,

12:10 you know, because people definitely,

12:12 you know, don't always look on at the the dark stuff, you know, all the time.

12:18 Um,

12:19 yeah, as is not my friends.

12:21 Well, [laughter]

12:23 I mean, [snorts] that's there are obviously feelings I have about Yeah,

12:31 you shouldn't always turn away.

12:34 You need to look and it's going to be as painful as all hell.

12:39 Yeah,

12:38 I've done that in my personal life several times.

12:41 I did that recently.

12:42 It was pretty powerful.

12:43 You were saying earlier the good but not to, you know,

12:47 the good things that are happening in life,

12:48 but not totally focusing on them all the time, right?

12:51 focusing on the bad things but not turning your head away from it,

12:55 not turning the cheek or whatever.

12:57 Yeah.

12:57 You don't you don't have to turn away.

12:59 Yeah.

12:59 And and [snorts] it can be done.

13:01 And

13:02 ultimately for me, it's it's empathy.

13:05 Empathy goes such a long way

13:08 and I don't see a lot of it lately.

13:12 I could get very dark right now.

13:14 No, I mean, yeah, you're I just think

13:16 of like a thousand examples of what you just said.

13:19 Yeah.

13:19 And like a lot of the um one big

13:25 example right now is like the the Democratic Party.

13:28 It feels like if we want to go right there,

13:31 it seems like they could be a lot louder.

13:34 Not that it's like all up to the Democratic party to change the world,

13:38 but it seems like if what happened to them just happened to them.

13:43 It seems like they would have been I don't know a little bit more loud about

13:49 uh and a little bit more I don't know more strength there in the in the voice.

13:56 I don't know.

13:56 Maybe I'm just like,

13:57 no, you said the key words, strength and using your voice.

14:04 Those are powerful things.

14:06 Your voice is a powerful thing,

14:09 which I mean, obviously I can attest to because when I get to see you perform,

14:16 that just carries through an entire room with or an entire

14:20 space with thousands of people and they're focused on you.

14:26 That is an incredible feeling.

14:30 You know, it's it's really lucky for me.

14:32 I get to hear your voice every single day because I you know,

14:35 that's what I when I turn my car on, it's KTX.

14:38 But no matter if it's what station it is, either one of them,

14:42 the uh I always get to hear your voice, so it's it's nice.

14:47 Thank you.

14:48 I I'm invading everyone's ear space.

14:50 Great.

14:51 Um that's kind of a trip because I never hear it that way.

14:57 I never It's me doing my thing.

15:00 Yeah.

14:59 And then I have to walk away to a certain extent.

15:03 But there are people whether they're listening to KUTX or KUT.

15:08 They're like, "You're never far behind.

15:11 You're always here." Yeah.

15:14 Um

15:14 Well, you shouldn't be thinking about it.

15:15 I mean, no.

15:17 Yeah.

15:17 No.

15:17 That would be weird.

15:19 That would be weird.

15:19 [laughter] too [snorts] late, Lori.

15:22 Um,

15:24 but yeah, it it's um again, you know, going back to these early memories,

15:32 I really think that does mold the the type

15:34 of um perspective that you might carry with you.

15:39 Yeah, I think you're totally Yeah,

15:40 the impressionable impressions that are that happen when you're little.

15:44 I mean, I think you're 100% right.

15:47 those all those core memories,

15:50 they just stay with you and and they make you who you are and

15:55 and some of those can be,

15:57 you know, depending on what what what those memories are,

16:00 they can be overcome if you wanted to, you know, or if you even want to do that.

16:06 Like I don't feel like I want

16:07 to overcome looking at the darkness really necessarily.

16:10 Um,

16:11 I think knowing how to uh how to saying how to deal is not what I mean either.

16:18 Like maybe like a like a like a volume control.

16:22 Volume control.

16:23 Yeah.

16:23 Goes back to the button like

16:25 the button you can push and be like boom.

16:27 Be being in charge of what it is you're experiencing.

16:29 It's okay to feel the feels.

16:32 Oh my gosh, I can go on forever.

16:33 Yeah, that's that's Yeah,

16:34 I think giving people that liberty to what you just said,

16:39 giving people the the liberty to feel what they want to do,

16:41 feel how they want to feel.

16:44 It's it's the endless feels.

16:48 Yeah.

16:47 I've had I've had the um suppressed feels.

16:50 Oh, no.

16:52 Yeah.

16:51 Be be very careful with those.

16:53 Uh they um

16:55 resurface in ways you [laughter] never imagined.

17:00 Uh and I've been there.

17:01 I've been

17:04 Yeah.

17:03 We all have everybody, I guess.

17:06 So, um I have to I have to mention this because I

17:11 keep I mean talking about memories going to the Black Angel's haunted house.

17:20 Which one?

17:20 The 1300 McKinley.

17:22 1300 McKinley.

17:26 Yeah.

17:25 And I am not making this up.

17:28 I had not heard anything.

17:30 The first time I went to the house,

17:32 it was for a feature that I did a long time ago before the break.

17:37 And [snorts] the Black Angels one of the first

17:38 features that I did for that and I still

17:40 have that recording somewhere and I didn't experience anything

17:44 then and we were mostly outside in the back porch.

17:49 Second time was for a party and Eric Wford

17:51 was there too and it was one of those parties.

17:54 Woo!

17:55 It was great.

17:56 And I would see each one of you in like ships passing.

17:59 I was like, "Hey, hey." Uh, but there was the stairway and I remember it trying

18:09 my best for a podcast to to describe this physically,

18:12 but I remember it went down and then it turned also.

18:17 There was that little and I was standing on that little landing

18:21 right there looking down at a friend and he was talking to me.

18:27 We were talking to each other and we both

18:29 kind of stopped and he goes, "I'm not crazy,

18:32 am I?" And I answered him without thinking, "No,

18:36 it was right behind me and it went down the stairs." Oh, whoa.

18:41 Wow.

18:42 Was not drunk.

18:45 Yeah.

18:45 Nothing else going on.

18:47 And he was holding a beer like And just for him to go, I'm not crazy.

18:52 You're just automatically knew what he was talking about.

18:55 Who was it?

18:56 TJ, I I don't even recall the specifics, but yeah.

19:01 And I didn't even turn around.

19:03 I was like, "Okay, I think I'm going to come downstairs now really fast."

19:06 Yeah, that Yeah, that house.

19:08 Yeah.

19:08 Christian and Stephanie, you know, Stephanie lived by herself.

19:12 Everybody else lived upstairs.

19:13 Stephanie lived like downstairs by herself,

19:15 so she had like kind of the worst of it.

19:18 Oh, no.

19:18 Yeah.

19:18 We all kind of could like run into another room if we got scared, you know.

19:23 And uh you know Jennifer had that big great Dne.

19:26 Yeah.

19:26 The horse.

19:27 Emily.

19:27 Yeah.

19:28 Emily the horse.

19:30 Um but yeah, I remember her saying that and I I remember like she had this cat

19:36 Moresy like the cats and the cat and the dog

19:39 reacted in a strange way to the house.

19:42 Yeah.

19:42 And I don't remember exact specifics, but

19:47 No, let your mind take that take that one.

19:49 I mean, did you have any experience?

19:51 I I felt that it was like a weird house

19:54 and I never like I never like was like, "Oh,

19:57 that's I never had like I just knew that it was like one

20:02 of those houses." Like we we all right when when we moved in, we were like,

20:06 "We should check the records to see like if someone like passed

20:09 away in the house." That's what we all first said like together.

20:13 So that's kind of like after that I was just kind of like, you know, [laughter]

20:17 well, we're here.

20:17 We're here.

20:18 Yeah.

20:18 I mean, we were It's like we found that place.

20:20 This is like we each paid like 200 bucks a month.

20:23 There's five of us living there or whatever.

20:24 Like and I mean you just can't find that kind of living situation anymore.

20:30 Like think about that.

20:31 Like you're living with a band.

20:32 You're like, you know, touring, you don't have,

20:36 you know, we didn't have other jobs,

20:40 you know, so 200 bucks for the month for rent.

20:43 I mean, that's like incredible.

20:46 Um Yeah.

20:47 Yeah.

20:47 I think eventually we we moved out in part

20:51 because the of the way the house felt.

20:55 It just felt super I

20:59 dark.

21:00 [laughter] I I Yeah, which means we should have stayed there, right?

21:04 I No, I think you're following your instinct.

21:09 Yeah.

21:09 Um and it was incredible because again it was, you know,

21:13 when this thing happened to me, it was in the middle of a party.

21:16 It was a gathering.

21:17 People were hey laughing or just being really ridiculous and doing their thing.

21:22 And for someone to look at you and say I'm not crazy, am I?

21:29 Bizarre.

21:29 That really that that's why I'm saying no,

21:32 you should not [snorts] have stayed at that.

21:33 No.

21:33 No.

21:33 You know, Jennifer was raised in a funeral home

21:36 essentially like her her parents owned a funeral home.

21:40 So she like when she joined the band there was

21:42 instantly this like it was interesting how everybody's collective darkness

21:46 was like incorporated in the creativity of the band

21:49 in that house and everything else that was going on.

21:52 But yeah that's just another you know piece of the piece of the puzzle.

21:59 I love that collective darkness.

22:01 I really like the sound of that.

22:02 Um my people Yeah.

22:05 Um it's just I think also having shared experiences like that.

22:13 Yeah.

22:14 Um

22:16 my thing and I I I just do not understand myself

22:20 and I've always been like this since I was a kid.

22:24 Yeah.

22:25 Something spooky, something scary, right?

22:27 I'm like hated it when I was a kid, but I would go back.

22:31 Yeah.

22:31 Oh, 100%.

22:32 I mean, why do we go see scary movies?

22:35 You know, I I think that there I mean there was there was an instance

22:39 where we all believed there was like a little girl that lived in the house

22:43 and I can't remember how much I was involved in that kind of thought

22:47 process but we ended up writing a song about it haunting at 1300 McKinley.

22:51 Um but yeah, I mean why do we go see scary movies?

22:55 Why do we, you know, love Halloween?

22:57 Why do we why are we wearing black?

23:00 But you know that's like I think that that's Yeah.

23:04 Yeah, something attractive about it.

23:06 Obviously,

23:08 I think because I I did have this conversation

23:11 before with another guest with um Dusty from Vision

23:15 Video and one of the things [snorts] that that came

23:19 to my mind was well there is that fascination.

23:23 I've always had a morbid fascination,

23:26 but I think I don't know does it stem from having control over this situation?

23:33 Like if you're seeing a a particularly scary or gory film,

23:38 somewhere in the back of the brain, you're like,

23:41 "Well, these amazing special effects, good job you.

23:44 You're making me sick to my stomach.

23:46 Well done.

23:46 Well done." Um, and I also see it again as a privilege

23:53 because I've never lived with violence in my life.

23:57 Thank goodness.

23:59 Um, but then again, I've met some other wonderful artists and Alex,

24:06 they were like, "Hey, I don't want you to feel guilt about that.

24:10 I've had life where I've had to deal with with things

24:13 like that." And they're still uh horror fans and and, you know,

24:18 fascinated by the Macob as well.

24:21 And I just wonder, is it this thing where we can control that?

24:25 You know, this is like the controlled stuff

24:27 or why people get obsessed with uh crime cases.

24:34 I hate saying true crime because all I talk more about the control thing cuz

24:39 like I mean we we have the ability to turn turn it off and on.

24:42 Is that maybe we do we maybe it goes back to what we were saying earlier.

24:46 We have the Yeah, there is a control there's like a a volume knob.

24:50 The volume or even the onoff?

24:53 Yeah, onoff switch.

24:54 Yeah.

24:55 Yeah.

24:55 Um, yeah.

24:57 I mean, we pay massive amounts of money

24:59 to be like scared out of our minds, right?

25:02 I mean, we don't have to do much.

25:04 We're already, you know,

25:05 I'm already scared out of my mind just being living in America pretty much.

25:09 So, it's like not it's not that,

25:10 you know, if your eyes are open, then you should be pretty frightened.

25:14 Should be pretty terrified.

25:16 Um, I I just I really do think it's this control thing.

25:20 And

25:23 it it's I think it's also picking

25:26 and choosing what you're going to scare yourself with.

25:29 Could be a roller coaster.

25:32 Yeah.

25:31 Haunted attraction.

25:32 Uh or you

25:33 not immigration.

25:35 Yeah.

25:35 Not immigration.

25:36 Yeah.

25:36 Yeah.

25:37 Yeah.

25:37 I Yeah.

25:38 Having the control.

25:38 Yeah.

25:38 That goes back to the control again.

25:41 Yeah.

25:41 It's I I really but but I I just I have memories from when I

25:46 was a little girl and it was

25:48 things like like for example like Cassandra Peterson.

25:52 Okay.

25:52 Alvara.

25:55 Mhm.

25:54 My my my inspiration.

25:57 Um she even talked about when she was a kid she would see things on TV

26:02 like uh Natasha and Rocky and Bullwinkle

26:06 or you know even um the Adams family, Morticia.

26:10 Mhm.

26:11 She'd be like, "Mom,

26:12 I want to be like that." And her mom would be like, "All right, kid.

26:14 Whatever." Yeah.

26:15 [snorts]

26:17 Um

26:17 I just It just goes so far back.

26:19 I love to hear Cassandra talk about stuff like that, too.

26:24 And some of the trauma that she's experienced.

26:26 Um by the way, you should check out her autobiography.

26:32 Okay.

26:31 Great stuff.

26:32 Um can't recommend it enough.

26:33 And

26:36 I'm I I keep thinking, wow, I wonder if I even made that connection then.

26:39 And I grew up watching Alvara.

26:41 You know, we thought we were badasses because we had cable and cable back

26:45 in the day meant here's some stations

26:46 from LA and one from Georgia, one from Atlanta.

26:50 And the LA station, KHJ, had had my girl.

26:58 And my parents thought nothing of it.

27:00 They're like, "Yeah, that's Lor's thing." You know, was it Scooby-Doo?

27:04 Did it start with that?

27:05 Did it start with Bewitched?

27:06 I used to watch that all the time.

27:09 Um, and I want the biggest chicken.

27:13 Yeah.

27:13 You could ever meet.

27:14 See the word morbid, mortician, they all start with more.

27:18 So you want more of it.

27:20 [laughter]

27:22 Moss in Spanish means more.

27:25 Hey, no, that's a stretch there.

27:28 Okay.

27:27 Um, but yeah, there's something on the first part of the um, yeah.

27:31 Yeah, it's interesting to think about where everything kind of got started.

27:35 You know, where you got this fascination with the darkness, the dark side,

27:40 you know, there's I think there's, you know,

27:42 I I can't like look away from the Star Wars the movie,

27:48 the dark side, and like that was like they talk about that and you know,

27:52 let's just like make a connection there.

27:55 You know, they couldn't look away from the dark side and they were drawn to it.

27:57 I mean, it's the same.

27:59 Maybe the story is already Maybe that's our answer is in Star Wars, you know,

28:04 perhaps,

28:04 you know, it's not it's not as like, you know, spooky,

28:08 but it's still like shockingly vibrant like that looking at the dark side,

28:12 being drawn to the dark side,

28:14 resisting that temptation to go too far, you know, and

28:19 and um

28:20 everything started with Star Wars.

28:21 There was no darkness before that.

28:23 [laughter] Oh, were that so.

28:26 I mean, yeah, you know,

28:28 you could you could definitely use that as an example

28:31 because there was this whole thing where we didn't know it,

28:35 but you know, Luke's father, holy crap.

28:38 Oh, spoiler alert.

28:39 Oh, spoiler.

28:40 Yeah, sorry everybody.

28:42 Now that I've ruined your Yeah.

28:44 total experience, I'm not sure I have, but [laughter]

28:47 but the the thing the I had a specific thing

28:50 coming into my mind like a nice nerd that I am.

28:54 uh when uh Luke is staying with Yoda and he's training, you know,

28:59 Yoda's training him and he goes into that area

29:03 and he's he's faced with Darth Vader and he's fighting,

29:06 but when he cuts off the head, I mean, whose head is it?

29:11 Yeah.

29:11 Th this whole thing.

29:12 Um interesting.

29:14 When um and I know I'm going to get

29:18 a load of grief for this, but when people talk about,

29:21 oh, the devil, Satan, I'm all, do you want to know who Satan is?

29:24 Look in the mirror.

29:28 Look in the mirror.

29:30 The fact that humans could not bear the thought of mankind being responsible

29:38 for such heinous, horrendous things, created something to put the blame on.

29:47 Yep.

29:47 And I know I'm I'm gonna hear from people about that one, but

29:51 that's just as anyone does who has an opinion about anything.

29:56 Oh, yeah.

29:56 If you have an opinion about anything, you're going to hear it from from

29:59 half the other half the gallery.

30:01 Yeah.

30:01 It doesn't even matter what it is.

30:02 Like if you like donuts, if you don't like donuts or whatever,

30:06 you hate Homer Simpson, don't you?

30:09 Yeah, I know.

30:08 I know.

30:09 And and and I don't I don't hate Homer.

30:12 I think a lot about a lot of the darkness to speak in Texas terms

30:16 like it has a lot to do with this kind of religious guilt that hangs over.

30:20 I mean whether you know the fire and brimstone.

30:22 I mean this sounds super cliche but I

30:25 mean that definitely plays into my understanding

30:28 of of what darkness is or the idea of darkness from that standpoint,

30:34 a secular kind of standpoint.

30:36 Um

30:39 yeah.

30:38 Do you feel that way living in Texas?

30:40 I mean I I definitely I you know you know when I was

30:44 younger espec es especially not now you know but that was definitely a thing

30:50 I have heard experiences from friends who grew up

30:53 in fundamental houses I used to call them um

30:59 that sounds spooky it's

31:02 because they were um we even had some neighbors back in the day

31:07 where their dad was something else And um he wasn't very nice.

31:12 He wasn't friendly, which was interesting because

31:14 his wife was and the kids were sweet.

31:17 Um the oldest brother had some stupid ideas, but whatever.

31:25 You know, we were all kids,

31:27 so I saw it growing up.

31:28 I didn't grow up in a strict Catholic household because both of my parents,

31:33 I think they must have had their own experiences.

31:36 They refused to send us to a Catholic school.

31:39 They were like, "No, no, no, no, no." So,

31:41 we didn't grow up with the with the strictness.

31:44 However, there was that sense of guilt.

31:50 Absolutely.

31:50 Um, especially essentially being a girl.

31:55 Um, the girls get it worse.

31:57 Uh, but I think so.

32:00 I think, you know, again, what I would respond to was was empathy, compassion.

32:11 That was more my inspiration.

32:14 Um, being looked down upon didn't really help.

32:19 It didn't get the creative juices flowing.

32:22 It it not only did not get those it did not only,

32:26 you know, not get the creative juices flowing, but it also turned me away.

32:32 It turned me off.

32:33 I would shut down.

32:36 Yeah.

32:35 And and I think that's also a dangerous thing, shutting down.

32:38 It is.

32:38 And I would I would just clamp up and

32:42 and not even respond.

32:45 Yeah.

32:44 I did that in grade school.

32:48 Yeah.

32:47 Thankfully, not to anyone's detriment.

32:49 I just think uh I have memories of that, you know,

32:53 like anyone doing like pointing their finger

32:56 at you and and shaking their finger at you.

32:59 Um I never talk to kids that way.

33:01 And I also don't talk down.

33:05 Yeah.

33:04 Um sometimes I'm speaking to them like little adults, but I feel

33:09 it's important.

33:09 I never liked being talked down to.

33:12 Yeah.

33:12 No.

33:12 And there's there's a certain Yeah.

33:14 Yeah.

33:14 And I have I have, you know, [snorts] a three-year-old now.

33:17 So, like even if I'm just asking her to do something else than what she's doing,

33:24 it might feel like that I'm talking down to her.

33:26 And I'm not saying that what we experienced was but like there's a certain

33:30 way that what you're talking about the fundamental kind of talking down to

33:34 they're already going to take it like you're

33:37 you know the worst person in the world

33:38 if you tell [laughter] them you know have

33:39 a seat while they're sitting instead of like

33:42 getting up every time they I mean I sound like such a parent

33:44 because my parents told me that but like you know it's every time

33:48 your kid takes a bite they stand up and do the river dance

33:50 and they sit down they do another

33:52 bite and river dance back river [laughter] dance.

33:54 So it's like man you seeing the same thing.

33:55 So if you ask them not to do it, you're just like the worst human in the world.

34:00 And and and so so therefore, if you're doing this talking down,

34:05 so it's going to be amplified, right?

34:08 Some amplified heat [laughter] coming down on the kid.

34:13 So yeah,

34:14 I just I don't know.

34:16 I never liked anybody doing that.

34:19 So I

34:19 I still don't I mean Yeah.

34:21 Yeah, even though I probably do it, I still don't like it.

34:23 [laughter] You know, hopefully I don't.

34:26 I mean, you know, again, and I mean now for you that is a whole new universe.

34:32 It is.

34:33 It's Yeah.

34:34 And having having, you know,

34:35 something I guess we haven't talked about having kids during,

34:38 you know, having Luca during, you know,

34:41 right before COVID going through that crazy question

34:44 mark of a two or three year period,

34:46 whatever that was that we're still recovering from.

34:49 You know, that was a dark spot.

34:51 We, you know, we could have all just like got, you know,

34:54 taken over by some weird fungus like in the television

34:57 shows and just like end up something else, you know.

35:01 Um, we didn't know what was going to happen to the world.

35:05 That's a crazy time to having a kid and like

35:08 you're wearing having to put a mask on your kid.

35:11 Like think about like being a kid and only seeing

35:13 people's eyes for the first three years of their life.

35:16 That's all you see.

35:17 I wanted to do this drawn this like um these paintings where it's just kids

35:22 perspective of co eyes from that era and I don't I probably call it something

35:27 like that but like that's all the kids see are just like these faces without

35:31 a mouth or a nose and it's just eyes and just nothing else below it.

35:36 It's kind of[ __] up kind of scary.

35:38 Um but that would be like that'd be a interesting series for visual art.

35:45 You should follow that.

35:47 Yeah.

35:47 And it' be like really tall people because you know it's a kid

35:49 so it just be really tall people with eyes and you know that

35:54 eyes without a face.

35:55 Somebody did

35:56 took the words right out of my mouth.

35:59 Yeah.

35:59 Not only a Billy Idol song, but I'm thinking of the film.

36:03 Yeah.

36:03 The most disturbing film.

36:04 Well, I thought it was brilliant but it really crawls under your skin.

36:07 This whole thing about identity and beauty.

36:13 Yeah.

36:13 It it's infuriating and creepy and heartbreaking too.

36:20 Yeah.

36:21 But

36:21 yeah, you can see it, right?

36:23 So, yeah, going back to that, like, you know, just having kids in general,

36:27 even now when it seems darker than it was during co that when I it's

36:31 my dad and my mom always say like right now are the good old days.

36:36 Like tomorrow, yesterday is going to look amazing.

36:40 Today is like these are the good old days.

36:42 like right the second tomorrow is going to look like

36:45 you know it's it's there's something about that that's so

36:49 coming out of co you you start looking at co

36:51 you're like wow we actually had our family unit got tighter

36:55 we spend all this time with Luca you know if we

36:58 had other kids we' be you know we you know we

37:01 got closer to the rest of our family we all just

37:03 kind of got really tight it tightened everything slowed things down

37:08 slowed life down so now you look at co

37:10 you're like wow that wasn't so Can I go back

37:13 without the co

37:14 Yeah.

37:14 Without the without the mask and the eyes without a face.

37:17 Can I go back to that moment where,

37:19 you know, we're just getting like stipens from the government and just like

37:25 we're like at least having the ability to possibly get like, you know, money.

37:30 Um, and having that close family unit.

37:33 There's something about that like that's just like, wow, that was, you know,

37:37 that's powerful.

37:38 Yeah, it it is.

37:38 Having kids now, going back to what I was saying, having kids now

37:42 it seems darker than it was than I mean it kind of to me it seems seems

37:49 there's some other dark or there's something

37:51 maybe dark scarier there's a more frightening

37:54 element maybe maybe we got to separate darkness

37:56 and the word fear because like there you know beauty is within that right so

38:04 good

38:03 it was just more frightening

38:05 which which is

38:06 which is worse Um, I was going to ask you,

38:09 [snorts] do you think what your parents said, you know,

38:13 this is going to be the good old days,

38:15 do you think that that's necessarily a dark thing to say?

38:20 I don't know.

38:21 May maybe it is.

38:22 Uh, you know, that means tomorrow is going to be worse than today.

38:25 Like, is that [laughter] what I think some people would look at it that way, but

38:29 or or is tomorrow better than today?

38:31 Like, these are the good old days.

38:33 And then I don't know.

38:34 It just depends on what side of the half glass.

38:37 Yeah.

38:37 H half half full, half empty.

38:39 But I because I was looking at it both ways.

38:42 There are those that would perceive, oh my god,

38:44 that means tomorrow's going to be a nightmare.

38:48 Or appreciate the here and now.

38:50 Living in the moment like, yeah, these are

38:53 the good old days.

38:54 The good old days.

38:56 I can I can hear the song.

38:58 That should be a song right now.

38:58 Anticip [laughter] anticipation.

39:00 It's a total song.

39:01 These are the good old days.

39:02 Tell me about the good old days.

39:05 A Oh, that's another one.

39:08 Yeah,

39:09 grandpa.

39:09 Yeah.

39:09 Yeah, grandpa.

39:10 [laughter] Tell me about the good old days.

39:11 That's another one.

39:12 I was thinking of anticipation making me wait.

39:17 Yeah.

39:19 Um, [snorts] man.

39:20 Man, we have traveled.

39:22 Yeah.

39:23 Um,

39:23 as we do.

39:23 As we do.

39:25 Yeah.

39:25 [clears throat] Isn't it a habit?

39:26 I think so.

39:28 Yeah.

39:29 Yeah.

39:29 [laughter] I could make it worse.

39:31 um please do [laughter]

39:35 uh this this whole obsession of mine and turning it into a podcast.

39:40 I just I I think um in terms of you know knowing that these are

39:48 the good old days in terms of you know the closeness and things like that.

39:55 I really think along the way uh I've come to embrace this love

40:01 I have for this particular love or fascination however you want to see it.

40:08 I obviously don't want people to be unhappy.

40:10 That's not you know I make jokes like that.

40:13 Those are only jokes.

40:15 Yeah.

40:15 I'm not I don't delight in your misery.

40:18 No.

40:18 I think there's something about separating any kind of adjective

40:22 to the the idea of dark what darkness like you

40:25 know like it's only it means whatever it means to you

40:28 like fear is that's attached to somebody else's identity you

40:34 know yours is like not that or maybe maybe in moments

40:39 it is like [laughter] sure but like yeah I'm just

40:41 like wait um but like if it can't be one

40:44 thing it can't be like just one thing it's You know,

40:49 my therapist talks about part system and everything's

40:52 made up of all these different parts.

40:53 It's not just one thing.

40:54 It's like part of it is frightening, part of it beautiful,

40:58 part of it is got a question mark over it.

41:00 Part of it's going to be better tomorrow.

41:02 It's a part system, right?

41:05 So many working parts that make all of us complex, so many situations complex.

41:14 Some things are not that complex to me.

41:17 But I I really do think in terms of, you know,

41:21 when I say darkness, which we've said a lot.

41:26 Yeah.

41:26 Um there is so much music and so much art,

41:35 so many uh beautiful things in written form.

41:38 I have too many books that I'm probably never going

41:41 to get to within this month, let alone the year.

41:46 Um, it seems like a lot of brilliance, interesting that I use brilliance,

41:53 a lot of brilliance has come out of that.

41:56 That was an interesting word choice.

41:59 Yeah, there is so much and um, you know, not this is,

42:02 but my dad and I wrote a song that ended up on Indigo Meadow.

42:07 It's a song called Black Isn't Black anymore.

42:10 And so about demystifying the idea of what black is.

42:12 And that's just the whole I mean,

42:14 we should have started the conversation with that.

42:17 But he and I, so every once in a while like I'll be like,

42:19 "Dad, I need help with some song." And you know, and we'll get down.

42:25 It's been a minute, but we'll get down and like work shut it out.

42:27 But yeah, that's we wrote a song about

42:30 that specific demystification of the idea of black.

42:34 And so, you know, black isn't black.

42:38 That's the name of the song.

42:39 [laughter] Um, but yeah, in terms of in terms of just musical output,

42:45 there's been so much musical output that that flies towards that idea.

42:53 And I think it's great, wonderful.

42:57 It goes to everything.

42:59 Yeah.

43:00 Well, there just it's a part of everything.

43:02 Like you can't have light without dark.

43:04 So, I mean, how philosophical do we want to get here, you know?

43:08 But that's that's, you know, that's super cliche, but so true.

43:13 [laughter] Like, when I see your face,

43:14 this part's lit up and the other part's not.

43:16 It's like, oh, what's going on over here?

43:19 Oh, yeah.

43:19 [clears throat] As I lay back lay back in my coffin crossing my arms.

43:25 Wh.

43:26 Um, no, it's true.

43:29 And And like I say, there's a beauty.

43:32 There's such a beauty to it.

43:34 Yeah, I'm sorry if people are unable to see that.

43:38 Um I think

43:38 that's their problem.

43:39 That's their problem.

43:40 And the ones who cannot, that is their problem.

43:43 I'm surprised by those who can.

43:45 Sometimes people catch me off guard.

43:48 Um especially out here in Austin,

43:52 where I think, "Oh no,

43:53 whatever I'm talking about is really going

43:55 to make people back away from me." And instead,

43:58 the opposite happens from people I never would have expected it.

44:02 And it's wonderful to see that.

44:04 Like I want to know more.

44:06 Yeah.

44:06 No, wait.

44:07 Where did you get that idea?

44:10 I love that.

44:13 Yeah.

44:12 I think it's wonderful.

44:13 And and it also shows up in little ways, you know.

44:18 I I made one year um I was working um Carrie Rodriguez's event, Laboratorio.

44:26 It was really great, really awesome.

44:27 And I was making jokes when I was walking up to the theater.

44:32 I had just left my my favorite spot, the glass coffin, RIP.

44:38 And um we were celebrating two things.

44:41 World Dracula Day and World Goth Day with a wonderful event.

44:45 I mean, I'm not kidding.

44:46 Families were there.

44:47 It's like a whole thing.

44:49 So I was walking up to the Paramount.

44:51 Well, really to stateside.

44:54 I love that you're there.

44:55 I just that makes so much sense.

44:56 World like I didn't know there was world world goth

44:59 day but I mean there has to be then you would absolutely be there.

45:02 It's a thing that started uh I think with BBC radio one year

45:05 and they were just celebrating the music.

45:07 So why wouldn't there be?

45:08 Of course.

45:09 Leave it to Leave it to them.

45:11 Yeah.

45:11 Uh I was walking up to the theater because I'm the MC

45:14 for Car's event and this jerk and I mean classic jerk.

45:19 Tall boozery guy.

45:22 Hey Dracula.

45:22 What's up?

45:24 you know, where's your B?

45:25 Something really dumb.

45:27 Yeah.

45:26 And he was with a group of people.

45:29 O.

45:29 And I'm like, that makes it even worse.

45:30 I I don't even think there Yeah.

45:33 This is like right horrible.

45:37 God.

45:35 And I I just actually said it out loud.

45:38 I'm sir, it is so funny that you said that because it is World Goth.

45:43 So, happy World Goth to you.

45:45 One of them was at least giggling while they Well,

45:47 you know, he just stood there like,

45:49 "She's going to start a fight." I'm no obviously you're bigger than I am.

45:53 and a loser at that.

45:55 But I came out with that.

45:56 So I shared it with Carrie's [snorts] audience and afterwards there was a

46:01 He had to have been late 60s,

46:03 early 70s and he's like, "Lori, Lori, happy World Goth Day." Oh, that's awesome.

46:09 I mean, most goth most goth people I know are like,

46:13 is that a word thing you can say?

46:14 Goth people are really friendly.

46:17 I mean, and you know, like they're just really sweet like people.

46:22 Like I don't know.

46:23 I don't think I've ever met like a really like aggro.

46:28 No, when you meet person Yeah.

46:29 When you meet an aggro person, they're just aggro.

46:32 Yeah.

46:32 Yeah.

46:33 Um and believe me, in any type of scene you're

46:36 in, you're going to have like I'm sure they exist.

46:40 But I, you know, someone asked me, "How did you know this was you?" And I said,

46:44 I pretty much knew when I was a kid, but in terms of expressing it.

46:51 Yeah.

46:50 Um I really like it's not that my parents would have been all,

46:54 no, you're not allowed to do XYZ.

46:57 Um I felt that I didn't have the skills.

47:01 Maybe my mom would have put a stop to some makeup habits.

47:05 Society definitely would have that goes back to the Texas thing.

47:09 Society absolutely would have been like, you're you know, you're outcasted.

47:15 I I think out here in Austin, I was given more of the freedom.

47:19 Yeah.

47:19 Whereas growing up in El Paso,

47:22 um there were very few places where I could go or show up, you know, and if I,

47:29 you know, made myself all decked out

47:31 and and even going to like college and stuff,

47:33 I I was still just trying to find my way.

47:38 Yeah.

47:37 And still thinking, well, how can I fit in without fitting in?

47:40 I was so paranoid about that.

47:42 I was like really, you know, there's an insecurity there.

47:47 Mhm.

47:46 So I not till I got here and then it took some years.

47:50 Where'd you go to college?

47:52 I went to uh University of Texas at El Paso.

47:56 Okay.

47:57 UTEP.

47:59 UTP.

47:58 I was a minor.

47:59 I'm making a pick sign with my hand.

48:02 [laughter] That's what they do now.

48:04 Okay.

48:04 I was like, okay, we didn't do that, but I All right.

48:07 I mean, yay pics.

48:08 Yeah.

48:09 Um, [snorts] but even then, like they would always turn my head like punks.

48:17 Mhm.

48:17 Now, I would shave my head.

48:19 Not all of it, but the sides.

48:22 Yeah.

48:21 And I had a big old Yeah.

48:22 And bangs and, you know, the whole nine yards.

48:24 And, you know, the homemade t-shirts and Yeah.

48:28 My mom was like, "That shirt has holes." Well, that's the point.

48:31 Yeah.

48:31 That's the [laughter] point.

48:32 Yeah.

48:33 See, that's what those scissors were for right there.

48:37 Exactly.

48:36 Yeah.

48:36 But I really did not come into my own until gosh, I I don't I don't know.

48:46 I've always loved the music that Well, look look at the Cure.

48:50 Like let's I mean like talk about like one of our favorite bands.

48:54 I'm just assuming that you like The Cure.

48:56 I I do have such an admiration.

48:58 I they kind of gave people permission to I I think to an extent

49:02 I mean there's other people that did too, but Right.

49:04 Sure.

49:04 I I think to an extent, yes.

49:06 Or or even Suzie and the Banshees.

49:10 Yeah.

49:09 Um and then I like to kid around and say us old-timers, you know,

49:13 um when uh my boyfriend at the time

49:16 introduced me to Bow House, I lost my marbles.

49:20 I one of my favorite albums period [snorts] is The Skies Gone Out.

49:25 And I know it front to back.

49:26 And they do a cover of Brian Eno's Third Uncle to start out the album.

49:31 Like, holy crap, is this for me?

49:33 And it was just, oh, it's very dark.

49:35 And I'm like, give me more.

49:37 Okay, here's 45 grave.

49:38 Hooray.

49:39 You know, uh, shout out to John Briggs.

49:42 I give credit where credit is due.

49:45 It did start with the music and then maybe some black hair dye,

49:48 but, you know, not until now am I feeling fully comfortable in my

49:56 wardrobe, which, you know,

49:58 keeps me hidden in the shadows and out of the sunlight.

50:02 Yeah.

50:02 [snorts] Yes, vampire sense.

50:05 Yes, that was I saw fangs coming out from behind the mic.

50:08 I didn't know if you anybody else saw that on the camera, but

50:10 you know, it's a good thing we have cameras, but I will say this.

50:12 I come from a family that taught us never to bear our fangs.

50:16 It was vulgar.

50:17 It was vulgar.

50:19 Yeah, [snorts] proper it.

50:21 Yeah, you have to be, you know, we we were kind of ostracized for that.

50:27 Yeah.

50:26 And now with his vampire talk.

50:28 Um, first I have to let you know, Alex, I'm so grateful for your insight.

50:33 I really appreciate you coming in.

50:36 We finally got together to do [laughter] this.

50:39 I know.

50:39 Well, thank thank you for asking me and and sticking with me and absolutely

50:43 and thinking that I have any kind of input at all that's like,

50:47 you know, worth anything worth a damn.

50:50 I say absolutely.

50:51 Plenty of input.

50:52 All worth a damn.

50:54 But now before we wrap up, before we wrap up, the tables are turned.

50:59 They've turned and it's your turn.

51:03 You get to ask me a question, but make it count.

51:07 It can't be what's your favorite color.

51:10 Okay.

51:09 What's your favorite food?

51:11 Okay.

51:11 Well, I mean, I would kind of let's see without throwing

51:16 it back at the first question that you asked to me,

51:19 I would give you the same question like, so that was what does darkness

51:24 what is the darkness?

51:25 What is the darkness to me to you?

51:27 Yeah.

51:28 What is the darkness to you now that you've you've

51:31 had all this all these all these people you've interviewed?

51:36 Like where where are you right now?

51:38 Because you know tomorrow it's going to be better than it was or worse.

51:43 Whatever.

51:44 [laughter] Whatever I saying.

51:46 Yeah.

51:46 What is darkness?

51:46 What is darkness to you?

51:48 What are you saying?

51:50 You are for the record the first person to throw that back at me.

51:53 Well, you turn the table and I was like, well, I'm a card player.

51:55 I play poker, [laughter] so I'll put you in check here.

52:00 Oh, okay.

52:01 You're winning.

52:02 Um, it's so funny because Yeah, I've had all kinds of questions,

52:07 but I guess what inspired the podcast was h,

52:13 you know, putting that out and hearing what people

52:17 were thinking and, you know, I was on a roll.

52:19 Um, my definition varies, not because it's always different,

52:27 but because different things come to my mind.

52:31 And I think for me, the darkness would mean uh No awareness outside the self.

52:42 That to me has been something that I I not only witness, but growing up,

52:51 and believe me, I did some serious growing up in my 30s and my 40s.

52:57 You've got to be aware of what's around you.

53:01 The the souls around you, the people around you far away, and the people here,

53:07 whether it's family or your chosen family, your best friends,

53:12 even people that you create with.

53:14 And that's not always easy.

53:15 I know I don't have to lecture you about

53:17 being in a band because that's a family right there.

53:20 Marriage.

53:20 Yeah.

53:21 But I think for me, part of that can be very dark.

53:26 Um, and I see a lot of uh

53:31 incredible light when people feel comfortable enough to share.

53:36 I also appreciate people not wanting to share with me.

53:41 That sounds odd, but I can kind of relate to that.

53:45 Oftentimes I hold my cards close.

53:48 I mean, even on social media, I don't really talk too much about anything,

53:53 but um yeah, I think it's a lack of of that awareness.

53:58 Yeah.

53:58 Whether you're driving [laughter] or or just doing anything really.

54:02 Um that that's devastating.

54:07 Yeah, that is dark.

54:09 I and um I was hoping that I was the only

54:11 person that asked you that question because I was hoping

54:14 that you didn't give the a different question for the person

54:17 that asked you that, [laughter] you know, every single time.

54:20 Well, this is what you this is what you need to hear,

54:22 [laughter] but it's lack of self-awareness.

54:24 I mean, that's that's that's good, you know.

54:28 Yeah, that's dark.

54:29 It's twisted.

54:31 Yeah.

54:31 Leave it to me.

54:32 Yeah.

54:32 I'm fun at parties.

54:34 Yeah, you are.

54:36 [laughter] You are.

54:37 You still are.

54:38 Hey, thanks, man.

54:39 You know, I was going to say you and about 50 other

54:42 of my best buddies all have plenty of blackmail material on me, so that's great.

54:49 I love it.

54:50 I'm all I got nothing on you.

54:53 I got nothing.

54:55 Like, I promise I got nothing.

54:57 [laughter] Well, Alex, thank you so much.

55:01 I'm glad you were able to come in today.

55:03 Thank you.

55:04 Thank you for having me.

55:05 Thanks.

55:05 Absolutely.

55:06 We'll do it again sometime.

55:07 Let's do it again.

55:08 We'll wear something similar.

55:10 [laughter] Sounds good.

55:12 That sounds perfect.

55:14 Okay.