"China is Just Watching": Ro Khanna on Why the Iran Conflict is a Gift to Beijing

0:00 Our next guest is the ranking member of the house select

0:02 committee on the strategic competition between

0:04 The US and Chinese Communist Party.

0:06 Congressman Rovzana joins us this morning from Maplewood, Ohio,

0:09 where he's leading a three day heartland tour visiting farms and factories.

0:13 We wanna get to that trip.

0:15 We also wanna get to the president's trip, to China.

0:17 But first, thank you for joining us, and I do wanna ask you,

0:22 about that testimony, on Wednesday, with Howard Lutnick.

0:24 You said regarding his connections to Epstein, he made a, quote,

0:29 farce of the English language and that Trump

0:31 would fire him if he heard what he said.

0:34 And I wanted to ask you, are are you sure about that?

0:37 Are you sure you think the president would fire him if he knew what he said?

0:42 I am because the president would see him sweating

0:45 and mumbling and struggling to answer very basic questions.

0:49 I mean, Howard Lutnick's testimony was that when he told

0:53 the nation that he would never visit Epstein after 2005,

0:58 that what he meant was that he himself would never visit Epstein,

1:03 but it was fine for him, his wife, and his kid to visit Epstein's island.

1:08 So that just makes no sense.

1:10 Anyone listening to it, would know he was lying, and he was not, honest.

1:16 That that's the real issue.

1:19 I wanna ask about the Epstein transparency act and where we are in this process.

1:22 So a signal moment having the commerce secretary

1:25 up on Capitol Hill testifying before the oversight committee.

1:28 There was a lot of commentary early on that the justice

1:31 department hadn't upheld its obligations to that act.

1:33 Have they since are you satisfied

1:34 with what you've gotten from the justice department?

1:37 And, indeed, where does this investigation in part,

1:39 helmed by the oversight committee go from here?

1:43 Well, it's been the largest release of documents over decades,

1:47 3,000,000 files released.

1:49 And they, have shown an Epstein class that feels

1:52 like they don't need to live by the rules,

1:54 that treats these, women, as dispensable.

1:57 But there's still 3,000,000 files that need to be released,

2:01 and the biggest thing that survivors tell

2:03 me is they wanna see investigations and prosecutions.

2:05 There are people who abuse them, rape them, or traffic them in these files,

2:10 and there haven't been any investigations or prosecutions.

2:12 So we need the release of the remaining files,

2:15 and we need investigations and prosecutions.

2:18 I was also wondering and stick with me here.

2:19 It is a bit of a as an odd question.

2:21 But I'm wondering if you have any insight into why

2:25 Melania Trump seemingly out of nowhere made that odd

2:28 and rare public appearance in April denying any connection with Epstein

2:32 and calling for congress to bring survivors forward to testify.

2:34 Do you know what prompted that?

2:38 I don't, but I actually welcomed it because

2:40 unlike her husband who's calling these survivors a hoax,

2:42 first lady Trump is saying that they deserve to be heard.

2:46 First lady Trump is saying

2:48 that, there should be investigations and prosecutions,

2:50 and the most important thing she said is Epstein was not alone.

2:55 She knows that there were other men involved in abusing,

2:59 trafficking, raping these young girls.

3:01 And, she is saying there needs to be an investigation.

3:04 There needs to be prosecution, and she's contradicting her own husband.

3:08 So what I would ask for the first lady is to say,

3:12 call on the justice department to release the remaining

3:15 files and call on them to begin investigations and prosecutions.

3:19 Congressman Connan, as we mentioned, this trip is coming up this week,

3:22 this postponed trip the president's taking to Beijing to meet with president Xi.

3:25 You're the ranking member of this committee on on China.

3:28 And I'm curious of how you see the importance of this visit

3:32 and indeed what you hope will come out of it.

3:34 What what is a good outcome in your estimation of of this trip

3:36 where the leaders of the two largest economies in the world are gonna meet?

3:41 Well, I've been in Pennsylvania and Ohio and Michigan talking to our farmers,

3:45 talking to our factory workers.

3:46 Let me offer four things we need to do.

3:49 First, we need to get a deal for China to buy more of our soybeans.

3:55 The farmers have been hurt.

3:57 They're buying now from Argentina.

3:59 They're buying from, South America.

4:01 They're not buying from our farmers.

4:03 Second, we need to make sure that they're not

4:06 sending their ships to our ports without a fee.

4:08 We suspended this fee, and China's,

4:11 using their ships to in in our ports that are hurting American shipbuilding.

4:16 Third, we need to find some way to lower the cost of fertilizer.

4:20 It's really hurting a lot of our, farmers.

4:24 It's hurting, a lot of, the food prices in The United States.

4:28 That means, getting them not to have export controls

4:31 on that, and that means figuring out how we open up, the Strait Of Formos.

4:36 And finally, we need to make sure

4:39 that they are not dumping into The United States.

4:43 They continue, to, have unfair trade practices,

4:45 and we need to clamp down on that.

4:49 Historically, the Chinese have been very adept and very tenacious negotiators,

4:53 especially when it comes to matters of the economy.

4:56 We've been talking this morning about how the treasury secretary has laid

4:59 the groundwork and and established

5:01 a relationship with his counterpart in Beijing.

5:03 But I'm wondering if you think this administration,

5:06 if you think president Trump is ready to go toe to toe with the Chinese if

5:11 he can get successfully the things you were

5:13 all just talking about out of these negotiations.

5:17 Well, he hasn't shown that ability so far.

5:20 Obviously, I'm rooting for him because he's the American president,

5:23 but we've lost 80,000 manufacturing jobs on his watch.

5:27 We've seen 316 firm bankruptcies on his watch compared

5:31 to 215 the year president Biden was in office.

5:35 We've seen the trade deficit for The United States actually increase.

5:39 We've seen the cost of inputs, increase because of blanket tariffs.

5:44 So he has a lot that he has to reverse,

5:47 and we've had China hold us hostage on rare earths and critical minerals.

5:51 I want a deal that actually helps American farmers, American shipbuilders,

5:55 American manufacturers, and I hope he will, work to to get that.

6:00 He hasn't so far.

6:01 Part of that committee's remit, as I understand,

6:03 is to look at this balance of power,

6:05 this level of competition between The US, and China.

6:07 And I'm curious how you see that dynamic at play, right now.

6:10 So we had just a few days ago,

6:12 Iran's foreign minister going to Beijing to meet with China's foreign minister.

6:16 It's clear that China,

6:17 by not getting actively involved in this conflict in The Middle East,

6:20 is positioned, shall we say, differently from from The US right now,

6:24 and and perhaps that's something I

6:25 think advantageous to the Chinese, leadership.

6:27 It's it's not a war that's draining resources from them.

6:29 Sure.

6:29 They'd like to have the the energy that's stalled in the the Strait Of Hormuz.

6:33 How do you see that competitive dynamic,

6:34 and how worried are you about, the degree to which The US,

6:38 the administration is paying attention

6:39 to to that, that that binary between The US and China?

6:44 Well, I'm concerned that we're draining our resources in a a war in Iran.

6:50 We haven't been able to get their enriched uranium out.

6:53 Iran's regime is more hardline with the IRGC having more control.

6:57 Iran has more control over the Strait Of Hormuz.

7:00 It's cost us, billions of dollars, and it's increased our food prices.

7:05 And China basically is just watching from the sideline.

7:08 They're not sinking that money, into the Middle East.

7:11 They're sinking that money into building their ships,

7:14 into building, alternative energy,

7:15 renewable energy, into building their economy.

7:18 So what I want is for The United States to be

7:21 putting our resources in investing in manufacturing here at home,

7:24 jobs here at home, research and innovation here at home,

7:28 and not getting sucked into the Middle East, that's a drain of our resources.

7:32 Congressman, I do wanna ask you a more armed services y question,

7:36 and that's there's this report in the Washington Post about

7:39 US Intelligence analyzing the data and saying that Iran is

7:43 is situated to last at least three or four more

7:47 months of this blockade before really feeling the economic pressure.

7:50 When it comes to a war of attrition,

7:52 if you're looking at Iran versus The US versus even China,

7:55 how long they're willing to sit this out,

7:58 do you think the American public and people real people who

8:00 you've been talking to in the Midwest are gonna give the president

8:03 the benefit of the doubt for this conflict for three to four

8:07 more months given what it's doing to prices of almost everything?

8:12 No.

8:12 It's because we're spending a billion to $2,000,000,000 a day,

8:16 but that's not just the cost.

8:18 I mean, when it has Pete Hegseth, what's the cost?

8:20 He said it's a gotcha question,

8:21 but Pete Hegseth may wanna go out to Ohio and Michigan

8:25 and Pennsylvania because the cost is the increased cost of gas.

8:28 The cost is the increased cost of diesel.

8:31 The cost is the increased cost of fertilizer.

8:34 All of that means increased cost for Americans when it comes to food,

8:38 when it comes to their rent,

8:40 when it comes to filling up their tanks this summer,

8:43 and that's not worth an Iran that is

8:47 more hardline and that still has enriched uranium.

8:50 So we haven't achieved anything,

8:52 and we've created enormous economic hardship on the American people.

8:57 We need to end this war.

8:59 We need negotiation that opens the Strait Of Hormuz,

9:02 allows gas, allows diesel, allows fertilizers prices to fall.

9:07 How blind are you other lawmakers flying right now?

9:09 I guess it's no small thing that the defense secretary

9:12 did make his way to Capitol Hill to answer some questions,

9:14 not all of them, but at least at least some of them.

9:17 You know, I think when we first heard

9:18 about the funding request the administration was making,

9:21 there was some speculation that lawmakers would welcome

9:23 that as an opportunity to kind of use that to get secretary Hager and others

9:27 on the hill to answer questions about this conflict,

9:30 about the trajectory, of this war.

9:32 How much confidence do you have in your understanding of what

9:35 the administration wants to do and where war is headed?

9:41 The administration doesn't have a clear strategic goal.

9:44 First, they said they wanted regime change.

9:46 Now they acknowledge that the regime that's

9:48 in place is actually more hardline than Komenei.

9:51 Then they said they wanted the the nuclear

9:54 energy out and for Iran to be denuclear.

9:57 Now they acknowledge that enriched uranium is still buried under Iran's soil.

10:01 Then they said, well, they want the Strait Of Hormuz to be open.

10:05 Well, the Strait Of Hormuz was open before this war.

10:08 And so now we have to figure out how do we get the Strait Of Hormuz open.

10:11 There is no strategic goal.

10:13 The strategic goal right now should be

10:15 the immediate opening of the Strait Of Hormuz, the end to these hostilities,

10:19 not shooting at each other so that the price

10:21 of food and the price of gas can drop,

10:24 and then negotiation with the international community to get

10:27 Iran to commit on, getting enriched uranium out and inspections,

10:32 something Obama had achieved that Trump tore up.

10:35 The president has been very frustrated with European allies

10:38 who have so far been unwilling to engage directly,

10:41 in either helping with the blockade or, helping American action in the region.

10:45 Part of the repercussions of that are he has now threatened

10:49 to take a significant number of troops out of Germany after,

10:52 the chancellor had some harsh words about Trump

10:55 and saying he was getting played by the Iranians.

10:58 Are you concerned that that will really happen?

11:00 And at what level do you worry it will impact American operational abilities?

11:05 Because those are big bases.

11:06 The US relies on them for a heck of a lot of stuff in that theater.

11:10 Why why is he doing this, and are

11:13 you concerned it's gonna impact military readiness?

11:16 Well, I'm concerned that he's doing it in a retaliatory way.

11:19 If he wants to look at lessening our footprint

11:22 on our 800 bases overseas to reduce cost, that's a separate conversation.

11:29 But he shouldn't be threatening the German chancellor with our true presidents

11:33 in Germany because the German chancellor doesn't wanna engage in a blockade,

11:37 that isn't being effective, in the Strait Of Hormuz.

11:40 What we need to do is bring all along our European allies,

11:44 like president Obama did, to put pressure on Iran,

11:48 to have a deal that, forces them to, submit

11:51 to inspection and give up their enriched uranium.

11:54 Obviously, the military option didn't work.

11:56 Yes.

11:56 The military destroyed, Iran's navy.

11:58 Yes.

11:58 It destroyed Iran's air force that may weaken them regionally,

12:03 but it did nothing in terms of getting them the the enriched uranium out.

12:08 And for that, we need our European allies, NATO, and diplomacy.

12:12 Let me pivot from the shooting war in the Middle shooting war in Europe,

12:16 to the political war here in The United States over congressional districts.

12:18 And as I said, you are uniquely positioned.

12:20 You're on armed services oversight, the China committee.

12:22 You're also from the great state of of California,

12:25 which is wrestling with with some

12:26 of these issues having to do with congressional districts.

12:28 I'm curious what your reaction is to what

12:30 we've seen in recent weeks out of Virginia,

12:32 the Virginia Supreme Court ruling that the the redrawn

12:35 districts that were passed by voters there,

12:37 is not does not comport with the state's constitution,

12:39 obviously, a setback for for Democrats.

12:41 We saw the the the ruling from the Supreme Court on the Voting Rights Act.

12:45 Where do you see this war, that political war heading,

12:48 as we see Republicans and Democrats going back

12:50 and forth on the way those congressional districts are drawn?

12:54 Well, the Virginia decision was overruling Virginia voters.

12:57 I mean, Virginia voters just voted on maps, and for the Virginia Supreme Court

13:03 to invalidate an election is deeply, antidemocratic.

13:06 And then for the US Supreme Court to gut, voting rights in the Deep South,

13:13 to not understand that there's racially polarized voting

13:17 in the Deep South is completely out of touch and undermining,

13:21 the efforts of the civil rights movement.

13:24 I mean, they're going after Jim Clyburn's district.

13:26 There was not a black member in congress in South

13:30 Carolina for a hundred years between Reconstruction and Jim Crow.

13:34 Jim Clyburn won that scene in 1992 because they drew a black majority district,

13:39 and they're trying to eliminate that.

13:41 They're trying to eliminate the work

13:42 of the voting rights and civil rights movement,

13:45 eliminating black majority districts in the South.

13:47 It's deeply concerning and not on a political level,

13:50 just on a level of anyone who cares about civil rights,

13:53 and black representation in America.

13:56 So what are you gonna do about this?

13:58 What are Democrats gonna do?

13:59 And at this point, is this a map Democrats can reasonably

14:02 win and hope to flip either of these bodies in November?

14:07 We're gonna win the house.

14:09 They will win despite all of these games.

14:12 My concern is what is this doing in terms of our civil rights representation?

14:16 I would encourage people to watch Jamie

14:19 Harrison's passionate defense of, black majority districts

14:22 in South Carolina and beyond when he

14:25 spoke at the South Carolina legislative session.

14:27 And I do believe that we can convince in some of these legislators not to do,

14:33 what they're thinking of doing, eliminating black districts.

14:36 It's not right for the country, and it may actually backfire on them,

14:42 creating more democratic districts, in the process.

14:45 So as they eliminate black districts,

14:46 they may actually be creating more democratic opportunities.

14:49 So we're gonna be fighting in each one of these states,

14:52 to make sure that, they don't eliminate these districts.

14:56 What do you say to the viewer of Bloomberg Television,

14:58 the listener to Bloomberg Radio who sees the gentleman from Fremont,

15:01 California in Maplewood, Ohio and wonders,

15:03 if this gentleman has higher aspirations than,

15:06 representing a congressional district in in California.

15:08 And if you demure on answering that directly,

15:11 what does the Democratic Party need to know from the places

15:13 that you've been spending the last three three days visiting?

15:17 I'm here on, in my capacity as the top Democrat on the China Select Committee,

15:21 and I'm here with colleagues, from Michigan, from Pennsylvania, from Ohio.

15:25 But what I would say is the Democratic Party

15:28 needs to spend more time in places in rural America,

15:32 on farms, in factory towns, and then understand that they're upset.

15:36 They're upset with both parties.

15:37 They've seen manufacturing job loss.

15:39 They've seen the prices increase.

15:41 They've seen wealth pile up in districts like mine in Silicon

15:44 Valley while the American dream seems farther out of reach here.

15:48 And we need to offer a vision.

15:50 I call it economic patriotism,

15:51 a new industrial bank that invests in communities, a thousand new trade schools,

15:56 a a new sense of tech institutes across America,

15:59 a a trade agenda that actually opens up foreign markets for our farmers.

16:04 So we need to offer an economic agenda for the future.

16:08 So you're exploring running for president?

16:12 Well, right now, I'm exploring what the agenda

16:14 for the China committee and house democrats should be,

16:17 but I do believe whoever runs to represent our party

16:21 and our nation should have a comprehensive economic agenda for the future.

16:24 I think that's the central issue.

16:26 How are we gonna improve the lives of Americans

16:29 in many of these places that were hollowed out after NAFTA,

16:32 hollowed out after China came into the World Trade Organization?

16:35 What is our vision for bringing them back,

16:38 for having economic security and economic independence?