Gregg Scruggs on answering call to coach, how the NFL Legends community helped launch his second act

0:00 I wanted to go to an H.B.CU and be a drum major.

0:02 That was like my ultimate goal was like, I'm going to be a drum major.

0:05 Jackson State, there's a YouTube video of Jackson State,

0:09 uh, drum majors that I used to watch on repeat.

0:12 I showed my band director, I learned the routine.

0:14 I'm like, dude, we going to turn this thing out, right?

0:17 So, that's why I didn't play football till late.

0:19 Fast forward to your question.

0:21 We're we're playing like I don't know, whatever school we're playing.

0:24 and they said their drum line stood at the at our gate

0:28 to entrance to the stadium and stood there and played.

0:31 Now, I knew what that meant because that local

0:33 band that I played in, we did that.

0:35 I mean, we had Cleveland Shaw come down and we played

0:38 against Cleveland Shaw in the middle of the Black Family Reunion.

0:41 We battled against them.

0:42 I did battle competitions.

0:44 I'll show y'all YouTube videos when we're done.

0:45 My brother just sent them to me.

0:46 We did battle competitions in the city and stuff like that.

0:49 So when we got done and we of course we get in formation two

0:53 by two we go marching out and then as we're their buses were where

0:58 we entered back into the high school I stopped right in front of their bus

1:01 and I just stood at the edge of their bus and started playing.

1:05 Uh-huh.

1:04 They knew what that meant.

1:05 So whoever it was, he came off the bus, got his drums.

1:08 So here it is, me and this guy battling out the back of St.

1:12 X High School, right?

1:13 Battling out.

1:14 Once the once the last person folds up his drums, it's over.

1:18 Yeah.

1:18 He ain't know I was armed, right?

1:19 I've been doing this, right?

1:21 So, he folded up his drums, got back on the bus.

1:23 There was a picture that we hung in the music

1:26 wing for the longest time of that battle.

1:28 And I was a living legend at that school, man.

1:30 And uh what how can you play football, you know, when when that's your story?

1:35 What a story.

1:42 What's up everybody?

1:43 I'm Peanut Tilman and this is the NFL Players Second Act podcast.

1:48 And with me as always as my trusty co-host Roman.

1:52 I have great posture, Harper.

1:54 Not all the time, but most of I do.

1:56 Uh really looking forward to this next our next guest, man.

2:00 Uh very interesting career.

2:02 Yeah.

2:02 And now in his coaching career as well.

2:04 I mean, more coaches, more great NFL players, more great NFL stories.

2:09 I can't wait to hear.

2:10 He is a two-time Super Bowl champion,

2:13 drafted by the Seattle Seahawks uh in 2012,

2:17 and he's currently a Dline coach with the San Francisco 49ers.

2:21 Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to the pot, Greg Scroll.

2:30 I appreciate it, man.

2:31 I just It's posture.

2:32 That's because my posture is I feel right.

2:34 I I'm boisterous.

2:36 I'm very voicerous right now.

2:37 So your diaphragm your diaphragm is not closed off.

2:41 You know what I'm saying?

2:41 So you get to you breathe a lot easier.

2:43 I made Thomas happy.

2:44 He's smiling.

2:44 He normally all mad.

2:46 For those that listening watching, Thomas is our angry uh producer.

2:50 He we can never do anything right.

2:52 So we just always like to give him Yeah.

2:54 So Greg, how how's life, man?

2:56 How how are you feeling?

2:57 Life's good, man.

2:58 I can't complain.

2:59 I'm uh Man, look at it outside.

3:01 I get to live in this, man.

3:02 It's it's good, man.

3:03 I I I I wish I could give you something that was

3:06 a thorn in my side right now, but it's not, man.

3:09 I'm I'm enjoying life, enjoying what I do.

3:11 I'm I'm really uh really grateful to be here with y'all.

3:15 I know that's like a cliche saying, but man,

3:17 I I didn't get involved until I until late in life.

3:21 How late?

3:21 Stop right there.

3:22 Here we go.

3:23 I got you.

3:24 How late did he get into ball?

3:26 So, he did not start playing football till his senior year.

3:29 Now, before that, he was actually a quad drummer.

3:32 That's right.

3:32 in the marching band.

3:33 So quad drummer meaning four.

3:36 So you you you doing that thing.

3:37 That's right.

3:38 So you probably did you grow up in the church?

3:40 Yeah.

3:40 Yeah.

3:40 My my favorite movie as a kid was Drum Line.

3:42 So when that came out Mhm.

3:44 Did you and your friends like, "All right,

3:46 let's like trying to walk back and forth.

3:48 Did y'all ever try to to see who could who could drop the stick?" No, but I did.

3:52 Uh so I went to a um I went to a private school

3:55 in Cincinnati and they were they were unfamiliar unfamiliar with any of that.

4:00 So I I know this school.

4:02 The school's name is St.

4:03 Xavier.

4:03 It's in Cincinnati.

4:04 They call it aka St.

4:06 X.

4:06 That's right.

4:07 Uh the sister school is St.

4:08 Ursiliz.

4:08 That's right.

4:09 That's right.

4:09 And so, you know, knowing these things, you know, I just put it on too, right?

4:14 What's that?

4:15 You said you live you lived on campus, too, right?

4:16 I did.

4:17 Yeah.

4:17 A program I was in called Hope Ignites.

4:19 It's formerly known as Boys Hope Girls Hope.

4:21 We had a house.

4:22 It's a it's a program that took me out of the inner city

4:25 and then they were the ones who provided me the opportunity to go to St.

4:28 X High School.

4:29 And I I wanted nothing to do with sports.

4:31 Like I I genuinely wanted I wanted to play basketball and that was it.

4:34 And so growing up, the way that my mother took care

4:38 of my my older brother and I to keep us from doing things,

4:41 she couldn't we had I was my mom was a single mom of four kids, right?

4:45 So she couldn't provide or she couldn't provide

4:47 the transportation to get all of us to different sports.

4:51 So the way that she kept us out of stuff was a little local band.

4:55 It was just a local band.

4:56 Didn't cost us anything.

4:58 We tw practiced twice a week either under a bridge

5:00 or at a rec center and that was that.

5:03 When I got to high school, I said, "Hey, y'all got a band?

5:06 I don't know anything about it,

5:07 but I want to join the band." And um met my music director.

5:11 To this day, this why drum line was so like pertinent to me.

5:14 To this day, I can't read music.

5:15 I was just going to say, can you read music?

5:17 I can't.

5:17 So, there was a guy, God bless his soul, man.

5:20 His name's Christopher Ray.

5:21 I don't know where Chris is, but if this ever finds him, Chris, what up, man?

5:24 Um, Chris Ray, I wouldn't make him meet me at lunchtime.

5:28 We had two soundproof rooms.

5:29 Go figure.

5:31 Private school.

5:31 We had two soundproof rooms in the music wing.

5:36 Uh-huh.

5:35 He would play, you know, let's say four measures.

5:38 I'd memorize it.

5:40 I'd play it back and then once we got together with the brass

5:44 and the woodwinds and the other other sections of the band,

5:47 growing up in church and being around music,

5:50 I I could put I could piece it together.

5:52 So I would just I learn it measure by measure,

5:54 you know, learn the first eight measures once I heard the horns.

5:57 Okay, that makes sense.

5:58 Got it.

5:59 And then he do me the next eight measures, you know, whatever.

6:02 And that's that.

6:03 So um so uh doing doing music for me that was something that was a separator.

6:10 I felt like everybody wanted to do sports.

6:12 So when I got to St.

6:13 X, as you know, like parochial private school,

6:16 like if you if you don't know Saint X,

6:17 like to paint the picture of my school when I was there, it's changed.

6:21 Okay.

6:22 But we had 1500 students, roughly 1500 students.

6:25 We had 36 total minorities in the entire school, right?

6:29 Like that was my school.

6:31 So I went to my my band director and I said, "We need to change this up.

6:35 We need to do formations.

6:36 We got to make this thing cool, man.

6:37 This halftime show with doing these corny formations and competing

6:41 like that's weird." So we did and from that point

6:43 on the first thing we did we made an X and then we made a low rider.

6:47 We played low rider and then we made a low

6:49 rider out of the formation and we did kind of

6:52 you got you got him to do these things.

6:54 Yes, I I did.

6:55 I did cuz what I wanted to do going back to how I got uh why I

6:58 didn't play football until late was I wanted

7:00 to go to an H.B.CU and be a drum major.

7:02 That was like my ultimate goal was like I'm going to be a drum major.

7:05 Jackson State.

7:06 There's a YouTube video of Jackson State uh

7:09 drum majors that I used to watch on repeat.

7:12 I showed my band director.

7:13 I learned the routine.

7:14 I'm like, "Dude, we going to turn this thing out." Right?

7:16 So, that's why I didn't play football till late.

7:19 But I was from like the inner city.

7:21 I was from the hood.

7:23 So, I was confident in my own skin.

7:26 So, all the band members kind of felt like they were in with me.

7:31 I felt like I was a cool guy.

7:32 Yeah.

7:33 So, all this fast forward to your question,

7:36 we're we're playing like I don't know whatever

7:38 school we're playing and they said their drum

7:40 line stood at the at our gate to entrance

7:44 to the stadium and stood there and played.

7:46 Now, I knew what that meant because that local

7:48 band that I played in, we did that.

7:50 I mean, we had Cleveland Shaw come down and we played

7:53 against Cleveland Shaw in the middle of the Black Family Reunion.

7:56 We battled against them.

7:57 I did battle competitions.

7:58 I'll show you YouTube videos when we're done.

8:00 My brother just sent them to me.

8:01 We did battle competitions in the city and stuff like that.

8:04 I knew what that meant.

8:05 So when we got done and we of course we get in formation two by two we

8:10 go marching out and then as we're their buses

8:13 were where we entered back into the high school.

8:16 I stopped right in front of their bus and I

8:17 just stood at the edge of their bus and started playing.

8:21 Uhhuh.

8:20 They knew what that meant.

8:21 So whoever it was, he came off the bus, got his drums.

8:24 So here it is.

8:25 Me and this guy battling out the back of St.

8:28 X High School, right?

8:29 battling out.

8:30 Once the once the last person folds up his drums, it's over.

8:35 Yeah.

8:34 He folded up his drums, had nothing else.

8:36 He ain't know I was armed, right?

8:38 I've been doing this, right?

8:39 So, he folded up his drums, got back on the bus.

8:42 There was a picture that we hung in the music wing for the longest

8:45 time of that battle and I was a living legend at that school, man.

8:48 And uh what how can you play football, you know, when when that's your story?

8:54 Story.

8:55 Now, my high school coach, man, he would always say like,

8:57 "If you played football your freshman year,

8:59 you'd have been the greatest football player

9:00 to walk these hallways." And I never

9:02 I just you couldn't sell me on that because I thought the football players,

9:05 I thought they thought they were cool, but they weren't in my mind.

9:08 Again, this young immaturity,

9:10 like not really growing in understanding like I

9:12 just I was going to be who I was, but maintain the quote unquote cool factor.

9:17 So, at what year did you come into high school or to Saint X?

9:21 Uh 04 was my freshman year.

9:23 Okay.

9:23 Okay.

9:23 So, you got there freshman year

9:25 and you go straight to band cuz you cuz that's what you're used to doing.

9:27 Yeah.

9:27 Band and basketball.

9:28 And you just stayed away from football.

9:31 My high school coach see me in the hallway every week.

9:33 Hey man, you need to come Steve Spec who's

9:35 one of the greatest coaches ever, by the way.

9:36 But uh Were you just that much taller than everybody?

9:39 Yeah, I was gifted if you will.

9:41 Like I I was gifted.

9:42 Now, St.

9:42 X, we had some really good athletes.

9:44 I spent a lot of time just trying to get good

9:47 at basketball and I didn't want to be associated with football.

9:51 It had nothing to do with soft scared or whatever.

9:53 Like I tried to play football when I was 6 years old,

9:55 but my mom couldn't take me to practices.

9:57 So that was the end of my football career.

9:59 I always felt like I wanted to what if the football players came around me.

10:04 My kind of arrogance was like, "Look, man, I go to a private school.

10:06 I'm from the hood.

10:07 I just want to let y'all know I ain't got

10:09 to be I ain't got to play football to be tough.

10:10 Like I'll be any of y'all ass at any second.

10:13 I ain't thinking twice about it.

10:14 Don't let these sticks fool you.

10:15 Don't let anything about this fool you." Right?

10:17 It was a little arrogance, right?

10:19 And immaturity.

10:20 And then my junior year I went out for football

10:23 and we did we were doing a workout.

10:24 What made you go?

10:26 I don't know.

10:27 My best friends played.

10:28 So I'm like, "All right, let's go." Man,

10:30 junior year I went out and I was laying in bed.

10:33 I think I did like two weeks of workouts.

10:35 I'm laying in bed.

10:36 It was a day like today.

10:37 It was 75 degrees.

10:38 Looked outside, clouds in the sky, and I'm like, "Man,

10:41 they about to go yell at me in the gym." Not doing that.

10:44 So that was the end of my football career my junior year.

10:46 I went to go play basketball instead.

10:48 How long was that?

10:49 the the your football career, junior year, how long was it?

10:52 Was it

10:52 uh two weeks?

10:53 Just them two weeks.

10:54 Yeah.

10:54 Then I went back to marching band

10:56 and then senior year um something came over me.

11:00 Two things.

11:00 I promised my best friend best friends that I would come out

11:03 and then I told him um if I do get an opportunity,

11:06 man, to play like I'll chase after it.

11:10 And then there was something that came over me that said,

11:13 I don't want to look back 20 years from now and wonder what would have happened,

11:16 especially considering everything that my high school coach had told me, right?

11:20 Um so I just stuck with it.

11:22 Workouts weren't I was killing that.

11:23 And fortunately going to the school that I was going to

11:26 um scouts scouts but uh college coaches were rolling through consistently.

11:31 So all of them would get their eyes on me and say, "Who is that dude?" Right?

11:35 The dude that's 6'3 and a half, 6'4, can run like a gazelle.

11:38 Cuz at the time I was only 210 lbs.

11:41 I could jump out the gym.

11:42 I was a basketball player.

11:43 Who's that dude?

11:44 They like he doesn't play football yet.

11:46 But if he does, he does.

11:48 But for me it was um it was that I wanted to play for my high school coach.

11:52 And man, if uh if it didn't happen, I was going to the military,

11:55 but the only thing I knew was that uh my mother wasn't

11:58 my mother wasn't going to pay for me to go to college.

12:00 That's the only thing I could guarantee was that my mom wouldn't pay a dime.

12:03 I was a similar similar plan B.

12:05 I was fighting to get a scholarship.

12:07 I was definitely joining the military.

12:08 That was

12:09 my my spot all day.

12:11 Uh question I do want to ask you.

12:13 How natural was football for you since you didn't really play it?

12:19 It wasn't, man.

12:20 It it wasn't.

12:20 Uh because when I played, coach had one rule for me.

12:24 He held up a Y5 that just told me get in the Y5 and just burn the edge.

12:29 Like my linebackers had to tell me where I was going in the pressures.

12:33 I didn't really know how to hit people.

12:34 So, my neck was always hurting, you know, like I wasn't in the right angles.

12:38 You know, I had a good D line coach.

12:39 My he played college ball.

12:40 He coached in college.

12:41 So, my high school Dline coach, Coach Wilds, he was really good.

12:44 But it wasn't natural.

12:45 The only thing that was natural to me was rushing the passer.

12:48 Like, because basketball, I had a natural spin move.

12:51 Um, and then trying to turn or bend a corner, bend an edge.

12:54 Like, these are all angles that we got to use

12:56 in basketball to be able to make something shake.

12:59 So, it wasn't very natural,

13:00 but uh as I would come to learn, become a good college coach,

13:04 like understanding how um you just you're recruiting

13:07 the potential and which what coach would say to me,

13:09 man, it's a meat market, dude.

13:11 It's a meat market.

13:12 Like, they just love I'm telling you, they going to look at you and love it.

13:14 And even that rubbed me wrong.

13:16 So, I still almost didn't play because he told me it was a meat market.

13:18 Like, I still almost was like, "Nah, I'm cool, man.

13:21 I'm going to go play basketball.

13:22 Like, I'm good.

13:23 They can have that.

13:23 They can go recruit somebody else." But, um yeah, it was it wasn't very natural.

13:28 The only thing that came I I feel naturally was rushing the passer

13:31 because you can put me on an edge and it's me one-on-one

13:34 using what God has given me and using the same traits that were

13:37 transferable from basketball to be able to go try to get the quarterback.

13:41 So your senior year you play basketball and football?

13:44 That's right.

13:45 Did you get recruited to play basketball?

13:48 I did.

13:48 I small time D1, big time D2.

13:51 Um big time D2, but it it is what it was to me.

13:55 Um, my offers in basketball were Miami of Ohio,

13:59 Western Michigan, and then Brown University.

14:01 Those are my only three D1 offers.

14:04 And the school that I really wanted to go

14:05 to was a school called Rollins College in Florida.

14:08 It's a beautiful, beautiful campus, beautiful place.

14:10 My high school basketball coach went there.

14:12 Um, so we had a connection, a good end,

14:14 so I I was going to pass on football to go play basketball in in Florida.

14:19 Um, but I did have opportunities.

14:21 You know, the AAU circuit helped that out a little bit.

14:24 The way we play ball at St.

14:25 X was like, you know, motion offense, pass, screen.

14:29 You don't really get to utilize your skills.

14:30 Now, we went to uh three state championships

14:33 in the final four while I was there.

14:34 So, it worked.

14:36 I don't think I really maximized my opportunity as a ball player,

14:39 but I did get some opportunities.

14:41 So, it wasn't like I was chasing a ghost.

14:42 Like, I still was going to be able to fulfill

14:44 that dream of not having my mom pay for school.

14:46 And eventually, you got that at Louisville.

14:48 I did.

14:49 And so, how does that go?

14:51 I mean, how like how exciting is you and your family?

14:53 Like I mean, you went from quad band

14:56 to quad drummer to football player at Louisville.

14:59 Yeah.

14:59 Yeah.

15:00 And did you tell your teammates when you got to Louisville that you were

15:03 Everybody knew Everybody knew me as like the Yeah.

15:06 Everybody knew me as a drummer boy.

15:07 That that followed me all the way through college.

15:09 That was your name.

15:10 Little drummer boy.

15:11 They Nobody really called me that, but like when I

15:13 came out for like 30 visits for the draft Yeah.

15:16 I went on a I went on a visit with Chandler Jones.

15:19 And as soon as I got on the bus,

15:20 I'm like, "Chandler, what up, man?" Greg Scrugs.

15:22 Oh, drummer boy.

15:24 Oh, my man.

15:24 What's up?

15:25 Yeah.

15:25 You know what I mean?

15:26 Like that's how they knew me.

15:27 But um the way that that happens, the short of it is,

15:31 um I went to a camp in Miami of Ohio and I stood in the defensive end line.

15:36 Them dudes was too big, so I moved over to the tight end line.

15:39 This is more me.

15:40 And uh worked out.

15:42 Got talked to by an Ohio State scout.

15:44 Who are you?

15:44 We need to know who you are.

15:45 Blah blah.

15:46 Didn't work out.

15:47 Nothing happened there.

15:48 go to a University of Louisville camp.

15:50 Yep.

15:50 There's three people in line.

15:52 First guy in line is a guy named Nate Nord.

15:54 His uncle was a tight end coach at Louisville.

15:56 Third guy in line was me, Greg Scrugs.

16:00 Second guy in line who was most inquisitive about what I was doing

16:03 and how am I going to do it was a dude named Travis Kelce.

16:06 Right.

16:06 So that's how he and I became friends was through that camp.

16:10 After that, uh we we saw each other at like UC camp or something.

16:13 My first game of Ohio offered me a scholarship.

16:16 Man, I said done.

16:17 shut it down.

16:18 I said I wanted to go to school for free.

16:20 I got a scholarship.

16:21 If I get offered, if if anything happens to me and they pull this off,

16:24 I'm going to be pissed.

16:25 Like, I don't care.

16:26 My high school coach says, "Hey, man, just wait.

16:28 There's plenty more where that came from.

16:29 Just hang tight." No, coach.

16:31 I had one goal.

16:33 I want to go to school for free.

16:34 It's 45 minutes up the road.

16:35 Great education.

16:36 I can play football.

16:37 Let's do it.

16:38 No, just wait.

16:39 Third game, Coach Fulmer at Tennessee called me,

16:42 offered me a scholarship, and then it was all downhill from there.

16:46 Michigan State, Michigan, uh, Illinois, Wake Forest,

16:50 Purdue, Virginia, man was all downhill.

16:53 And what made me choose Louisville, man, was was somebody like myself,

16:57 I couldn't have told you about the Big 10, the SEC, ACC.

17:00 I knew nothing about that.

17:01 Like, I wasn't familiar with.

17:02 I play NCAA, but the conferences didn't mean anything to me.

17:05 Like, whatever.

17:06 They play ball, they big, I'm big, whatever.

17:08 It doesn't matter.

17:08 Um, but when I got to Louisville, there was a guy named Trent Guy.

17:11 God bless him.

17:12 I walked into a house party as you do on visits and Trent said,

17:15 "Welcome home." Boom.

17:17 That was it.

17:18 That's the first time I felt like I was at home.

17:20 I wanted to go to a place where I felt like home.

17:22 Tennessee was great, but Coach Cutcliffe left a week after bringing all this.

17:27 He brought five, six staff members up to see me.

17:30 And we're not going anywhere.

17:31 Been together 16 years, and the next week he left.

17:33 I'm like, no disrespect, but cool.

17:36 I don't know who's going to be there.

17:37 Wake Forest, I wanted to go to Wake.

17:39 I told him, "I'll commit on the spot.

17:40 If you guarantee me a spot in MyAngelo's class,

17:42 God rest her soul." She was still teaching a a course there.

17:45 If you guarantee me a spot in MyAngelo's class, I'll commit.

17:50 Couldn't guarantee me a spot.

17:51 Well, I didn't commit.

17:52 I love that you drive a hard bargain.

17:54 You know exactly.

17:55 You know what?

17:56 Amazing.

17:56 Since a young man, you've known what you've wanted since day

17:59 one is you kind of just like this is what I do.

18:02 Yeah.

18:02 Very confident.

18:04 Maybe ignorance is bliss, right?

18:06 took the words out of my mouth.

18:08 Like you you kind of don't know any better.

18:10 That's right.

18:10 But you you say it with a you're a big guy.

18:13 You say it with a deep voice.

18:15 You speak it and you just go make it happen.

18:17 I I've thoroughly enjoyed listening to you tell us about your life story.

18:21 I appreciate it, man.

18:22 No doubt.

18:23 How good does that make you feel as far as you getting

18:25 all these schools and you got the one game you was just like,

18:27 "No, I want it." No, no, no.

18:28 Wait a minute.

18:29 Just give it time.

18:30 They Hey, they will come.

18:32 You know, it felt good.

18:33 you know, all my friends are being recruited.

18:35 Like, of the 22 guys who started on my state championship team,

18:38 like at the time, we were the number one team in the country.

18:41 So, of the 22 guys who started on that team,

18:44 I can't I'm not going to waste time trying to get it,

18:46 but I want to say 19 or 20 of them played college ball some way,

18:50 shape, or form, Ivy League, um D1, D2, like all of them.

18:56 The guy played opposite of me went to Wisconsin.

18:58 My linebacker was Luke Keequley.

19:01 like um my two corners played Ivy League,

19:03 my running back came to Louisville with me,

19:05 tight end came to Louisville with me,

19:06 quarterback could have went to Northwestern,

19:08 but instead runs a hedge fund around here

19:10 somewhere or runs a AI company around here somewhere.

19:13 Like my center went to UC, my wide receiver went to UC, fullback went to UC.

19:18 Like we my backup quarterback went to Notre Dame,

19:21 the starting left tackle went to Notre Dame,

19:23 you know, like so I see all these dudes getting recruited and it was cool.

19:26 But for me, the main thing was the main thing.

19:29 Like that's cool.

19:30 That's great.

19:31 I don't really care about any of that.

19:32 Like they tried to I'll give you one

19:34 example and maybe you know players out there, former players can relate to this.

19:38 Like we went on a visit and the ignor ignorance is bliss part.

19:41 This is where it resonates.

19:42 I went on a visit Peanut and this dude um I won't say where,

19:46 but he he started trying to tell my mom about how

19:49 they just did a $70 million renovation on the stadium at school.

19:53 He started trying to tell her, you know, we just signed new contracts.

19:56 Again, being on this side of it now, I understand what he was trying to present,

20:00 but my mother and I, I'm the only athlete in my family, like family, family.

20:05 I'm talking aunts, uncles, whatever.

20:07 Like, I'm the only one.

20:08 So, we don't know anything about this.

20:11 And he's saying, "Oh, well, we got a new contract.

20:13 We're going to be here.

20:14 I can take my wife to the to the Macy's now,

20:17 or you know, we can get her a Lexus." And here we are,

20:19 my mother and I, like we wait on the food

20:22 truck on Saturday mornings sometimes to go get food.

20:26 Yeah.

20:25 My mom don't care about any of that, right?

20:28 Um, and so, you know, I didn't really care about the offers.

20:32 It was cool because all my friends, it's nice to say it,

20:35 you know, but like for the most part,

20:38 all I wanted to do was make sure I was going the best opportunity because

20:41 I I never thought I was going to be good enough to play in the NFL.

20:43 I just want to go where I can get the best opportunity

20:45 to enjoy college football and get a degree and go get a job.

20:49 So, it was cool, but I didn't really care, you know, and that kind of mindset.

20:54 I think growing up late in sports is kind of um it's kind

20:57 of stuck with me because I'm not ooed and awed by a lot of things.

21:00 Like, I rever a lot of things and a lot of people.

21:03 I rever both of you guys like respectfully.

21:06 I watch you guys play ball, you know?

21:08 Like, I I respect the hell out of that and I rever it, you know.

21:11 Um, but if any of y'all walked in and just put

21:14 your chest out like like I'm I'm supposed to know who you are,

21:17 even though I do, like I wouldn't think twice about you.

21:20 I wouldn't shun you.

21:20 I wouldn't try to talk bad to you, but it's just how I grew up in sports.

21:24 Like, you respect people and you rever them, but you don't you don't oo and ah

21:29 over things because when you strip it all down, we're all just the same people.

21:32 So, it's the same thing getting recruited.

21:34 You know, it's a school with football.

21:36 Cool.

21:36 I'll make the most of it.

21:37 Let's roll, you know.

21:38 Yeah.

21:38 I like that.

21:39 At what point did you realize because you said you didn't you

21:42 didn't think you were good enough to play in the NFL, right?

21:44 So, at what point in college did you realize like, no, I I got a shot at this.

21:49 I'm I'm I'm decent.

21:51 I'm I'm pretty good.

21:52 Yeah.

21:52 There's two two people, three people really.

21:54 Um my my first coaches I always like

21:56 to respect all my coaches who gave me opportunities.

21:58 Ken Delgado, wherever he is, he he recruited me.

22:01 Coach English, Coach Crack Thorp, God rest his soul, they recruited me.

22:04 I still didn't think I was good enough.

22:06 I thought I was good to go to go to college.

22:08 But when Charlie Strong got there and he brought

22:10 this maniac of a Dline coach named Clint Hurt, right?

22:14 Big Hurt Big Hurt.

22:16 He was came to Chicago.

22:17 That's right.

22:18 That's right.

22:18 Yeah.

22:19 So when Big Hurt got there uh and a linebacker

22:23 coach named Coach Brian Jean Marie beat coach BJ,

22:26 they both were the ones who said like, "Man,

22:29 you you have all the things that it takes to play on Sunday." And basically,

22:35 we going to push you to get there,

22:37 but you got to believe it and you got

22:38 to do the right things and you got to buy in.

22:41 That's when I went from when they got there, I think I was 252.

22:45 They were like, "Hey, they got there in the spring.

22:47 Hey, by the end of spring ball, you need to be 275." All right.

22:51 Don't know how to do it.

22:51 No supplements, no nothing, man.

22:53 Straight like Coach Moore, man.

22:55 It was straight.

22:56 Eat three meals a day.

22:57 Take these Gatorade shakes in the silver cans.

23:00 Take these Gatorade shakes.

23:01 Drink them.

23:02 That's it.

23:02 Okay, cool.

23:03 All right.

23:03 This is what you got to do.

23:04 You got to be uh you got to have keen attention to detail.

23:08 That was coach her, man.

23:10 Everything I did, rushing the passer, playing run, man,

23:12 it was about the little fundamental details of everything I did.

23:15 And if you do that, you can play on Sunday.

23:18 And you know, it worked out.

23:20 I I still never believed it until I actually got drafted.

23:23 And even when I got drafted, I'm like, man,

23:26 I don't I don't know what they see in me or what they think.

23:29 Again, not having the wherewithal that these people do this for a living.

23:32 They've done this for years.

23:33 For me, I'm like, I don't know what they see or what they think, but

23:36 all right, I'm going just go out and do what I know,

23:38 do what I was coached to do, and see how it works.

23:40 So,

23:41 when them got there, 2010, when Clint hurt,

23:44 Charlie Strong, and Coach BJ got there,

23:46 and it's it just it speaks to how people can speak life into people.

23:51 Yeah.

23:50 Like Coach Hurt, man, he I I'm a firm believer in that.

23:53 I was that same type of guy where I always had this quiet sense of confidence.

23:59 But um for me, I didn't always know or think I belonged.

24:04 And when when somebody else told me that I did,

24:06 then it like gave me the confidence like, okay, I can do that.

24:09 So, you're not the only one.

24:11 And I totally get that.

24:12 And I want to talk about the position change when you came to Chicago.

24:16 Yeah, sure.

24:18 2016.

24:18 Talk about that.

24:19 Where did that come from?

24:20 How did that happen?

24:22 Where what what was that about?

24:24 Man, that was for my half year, nine months, 10 months in Chicago.

24:27 Man, that was some of my most enjoyable time in football because

24:30 of what I got to learn like just from people and dynamics like so was Fox.

24:34 Yeah, it was Foxy's last year.

24:36 Yeah.

24:36 So, it um what happened was I came in at the end of 15,

24:42 played, had a sack and a half or something like that, felt good about it.

24:46 Cool.

24:46 Let's go to the next season.

24:48 And then a little birdie told me that, "Hey man,

24:51 it might be tough sledding for you to make it as one of the eight or nine,

24:54 however many we dress.

24:56 Like nothing you did.

24:56 You're killing it." Which I I felt like I was.

24:59 But there's just certain people that other people like,

25:02 "Cool." But we we didn't we weren't able to draft

25:04 a tight end and we didn't sign one in free agency.

25:07 As it was told to me, it's not me to my own horn.

25:10 Like you're probably the only guy that's athletic

25:12 enough to be able to move over there.

25:14 Would you have any interest?

25:16 And I'm like, whatever helps the team, dude.

25:18 Like, if y'all feel like that's what help us win, I just want to help us win.

25:21 So, I was in there studying the playbook one morning,

25:25 went upstairs, met with Frank Smith, Dow, said, "Hey,

25:28 we heard you this might be a thing for you." I said,

25:30 "Yeah, it'll be a thing for me.

25:31 Let's make a shake." Cool.

25:32 And I turned in my defensive playbook, picked up an offensive playbook,

25:36 went back downstairs to the tight end room and just started studying.

25:40 And, uh, same thing, you can speak life into people.

25:42 Frank Smith, DA, both of those guys.

25:45 I don't know.

25:46 I feel like two OTAAS.

25:47 They're like, man, you could be one of the best blocking tight ends

25:50 that this league has ever seen if you really stick your mind to it.

25:52 Cuz I'm not scared to hit people.

25:54 I play Dline, you know?

25:55 I'm not scared to put my face on somebody.

25:57 And I'm I don't care about trying to conserve energy or any of that.

26:02 And I don't have an ego that says I need to catch passes.

26:05 I just want to play and I just want to help us win.

26:06 What do we got to do?

26:08 Did you wear gloves?

26:09 I did wear gloves.

26:10 Okay.

26:10 Okay.

26:10 I was just wondering cuz he's a big swag guy and he's

26:14 if a Titan come out there with no gloves I'm like this is definitely run.

26:18 Yeah.

26:18 No, I wore gloves.

26:19 You know what what what was interesting in my switch

26:22 was what I learned about defensive lineman and defenders,

26:24 outside linebackers.

26:25 You know, like I wanted to hit like I want to, you know,

26:29 I'm I just got done taking on double teams.

26:31 You know what I mean?

26:32 Like I I want to go hit you.

26:33 I want to put my face on you and see what you're about.

26:35 And what I learned about DNS, you know,

26:39 and and outside linebackers, I'm like, "Okay, a lot of us, like,

26:43 you know, Coach Hurt wouldn't allow me to not go put

26:46 my face on somebody." That was his biggest gripe with me.

26:49 I didn't know what I was doing.

26:50 Like, I'm trying, coach.

26:51 Like, I ain't I didn't grow up.

26:52 Like, I'm doing what's technically supposed to happen.

26:55 I don't have a natural instinct to say, "Forget it.

26:57 Run through his face." Right?

26:59 My technique says, "Put my hands here,

27:01 put my eyes there, da da da da da." Right?

27:03 And sometimes it doesn't look as physical, but that's what my technique said.

27:07 So when I got to tight end, I kind of developed into that like,

27:10 man, I'm going to put my face on somebody.

27:11 What I learned from D lineman was, man,

27:13 like a lot of dudes will put their face on you for a play for two plays,

27:18 for a series or two series.

27:19 But if you keep hitting a dude, a lot of D linemen, they don't like it.

27:23 They get uncomfortable with it because the notion of tight ends that we soft,

27:26 we all want to catch passes.

27:27 But when you get a dude that's 278 lbs that's playing tight end that can run,

27:32 you know, I was a 468 dude.

27:34 Like I that can run.

27:35 Hey man, I'll put my face on you.

27:36 That's a little difficult.

27:38 So I had thoroughly enjoyed it, man.

27:40 I did.

27:40 That's how it happened.

27:41 But once it happened, like I only knew one way to play the game cuz

27:44 I came in until that was hard with everything I got.

27:47 So if I finish through the whistle, I promise you,

27:49 bro, I ain't trying to show you up.

27:51 It's the only way I know how to do stuff.

27:53 Hey, and it just showed up on defense.

27:54 It showed up as me running to the ball.

27:56 I didn't get to I didn't get to make every play,

27:58 but on offense, if I have if I was on contact with you,

28:01 man, that showed the way that showed itself was,

28:03 man, me just trying to finish through the play.

28:05 So, I enjoyed it.

28:06 You know, I I really did enjoy it.

28:08 Um, when I say I learned a lot, like um,

28:13 what I didn't understand or what I didn't uh,

28:16 quite get because I was on successful teams, if you I mean,

28:19 you know, Seattle, we had successful teams,

28:21 was how much people appreciated dudes who didn't have egos

28:23 and just wanted to go do whatever it took to win.

28:27 Yeah.

28:26 My proud moment was when we did captain's voting.

28:29 That meant I was there for 8 months or whatever it was,

28:31 7 months, 8 months, whatever the case may be.

28:33 I didn't win it, but the amount of people

28:35 that came up to me and said, "Hey, man.

28:36 I just want to let you know I voted you captain

28:38 because of the way that you do stuff, man.

28:40 And the way that you play the game, it's not an ego.

28:42 You're a great teammate, but you play hard.

28:45 You're trying to do whatever it takes to win." Like,

28:48 that was that was that was a proud moment for me.

28:51 But it also taught me like, man, you can

28:53 you don't you can show up in this locker room,

28:55 not have an ego, show up and do work.

28:57 You don't have to be the rah guy.

28:59 You don't have to be the guy that that catches every pass.

29:02 You don't have to be,

29:03 but the way that you do stuff will speak

29:05 volumes to how people in this locker room respect you.

29:07 And you just keep being you, bro.

29:09 And that kind of stayed with me, you know,

29:12 and carries with me now in the coaching.

29:14 Yeah, I like that.

29:14 I like that.

29:16 We all have a day where we got to retire, resign, however you want to call it.

29:20 Mine was when I tore my ACL my last year.

29:23 So, I just kind of

29:24 knew this was going to or that would be my last my last season.

29:28 a 34 year old corner with a torn ACL

29:31 coming off in in his going into his 14th season.

29:35 At what point did you know it was time to stop playing football?

29:39 It was November of uh I think it was 17.

29:43 I tore my like you, I tore my ACL.

29:46 Um I'm a big man of faith and I was really leaning

29:49 to my faith through some things that happened in life at that time.

29:51 Like I was really leaning into my faith

29:53 and whatever God's purpose was for my life.

29:55 The way I talk about ACL, man,

29:56 I was on I got signed by the Pats and I was given a look or there

30:01 was a look that needed to be given and I thoroughly enjoy being on look team.

30:05 Like if there needed to be a look given, got no ego to go do it, you know?

30:09 And I'm on active so I don't really care, man.

30:11 Like let's go do it.

30:13 And it was a look that needed to be given, I jumped in.

30:16 Like I just I wasn't even supposed to be out on that rep,

30:18 but I jumped in like, "Hey, let's go.

30:19 I got it.

30:20 Let's go do it." And that route to my ACL, man.

30:24 Um, I knew it was too I knew the red flag

30:27 that was going to come with me now going to different places.

30:30 Um, and after I I was going to rehab back from it, kill it.

30:36 And I just said, you know what?

30:38 What What week was this?

30:40 Yeah.

30:40 When when I tore my ACL, that was October of 16.

30:44 Late last week of the season, October 16.

30:47 And then I set my sights on September 1st, 2017.

30:52 If I'm not signed, I'm retiring.

30:54 Got it.

30:55 We came into July and uh I had to spend three days with the Jets like,

31:01 "Hey, we think we're going to sign you.

31:03 We don't think we are.

31:04 We think we're going to sign you.

31:05 Stay here another night.

31:06 We think we're going to sign you.

31:08 We don't know if we are.

31:09 Stay here another day." That gave me hope that like, "Okay,

31:12 maybe September 1st is too early." Like, let's just keep pushing it back.

31:16 I didn't end up signing.

31:17 I had to get another surgery.

31:19 Okay, cool.

31:20 Once the first once the wave of cuts went through,

31:22 I know nobody's going to get signed the first three weeks.

31:24 Teams are set.

31:26 Like weeks four or five roll around, let me get myself a window.

31:28 And finally, uh I called actually I called Troy

31:31 Vincent and I called TV and said, "Hey man, look,

31:34 I spoke at the um the symposium and he said,

31:38 "Hey man, whenever you're done playing,

31:39 you need to come work for the PA." He was at the PA.

31:41 You need to come work for the PA.

31:43 Like you got an opportunity at the PA.

31:45 Cool.

31:46 Well, I called him.

31:46 He was over at the league office and said,

31:48 "I think I got an opportunity for you." this is when this thing will start.

31:50 It was a legends development program which was spectacular.

31:54 Shout out Tracy Pearlman like in the team.

31:56 So I set that day um I set that day as the day I retired

32:01 and if I didn't anything didn't happen before then man I said I'm out of here.

32:05 So that's what happened.

32:07 But I had to give myself a runway.

32:08 I didn't want to do it abruptly.

32:09 I had to give myself a runway.

32:11 And when that uh that I trained up until the morning

32:13 that I retired and nobody knew, not even my agent.

32:16 I didn't tell him.

32:17 That morning I went in, trained for three hours.

32:20 That night, didn't get a phone call.

32:21 I packed up my car and I drove to New York City.

32:24 Called my agent on the way, said, "Hey man,

32:26 I just want to let you know I'm hanging them up." Called my mom,

32:28 said, "Hey, just want to let you know I'm hanging them up.

32:30 I'm taking a job at the league office and this legends

32:33 development program and player marketing." And that's going to be that.

32:37 So that's the day that I knew for sure.

32:39 And I set that hard deadline for myself so I did so I

32:42 wouldn't chase the dream for another

32:43 year spending all your cash reserves, right?

32:46 like training out of pocket and hoping to hang on doing workouts here and there.

32:51 Like I didn't I did get an opportunity once I took my job at the league office.

32:56 Uh a team called and wanted to bring me in for a workout.

32:59 I told them I would only come if I would be guaranteed my contract.

33:04 They wanted to check on me, whatever, what have you.

33:07 And um thankful to TP and the whole team there.

33:10 They're like, "Look, you can go do it.

33:12 You'll have a job when you come back." Cuz for me,

33:14 again, the NFL, that was a that was icing on the cake.

33:18 I never thought I could make it.

33:19 So, I got this opportunity to work at a building

33:21 that there's a line down 51st Street to get into.

33:25 Like, I got this job.

33:26 I can't pass it up, man.

33:27 I got a career.

33:28 This is what I want.

33:29 They were gracious to say, "Man, you'll have a job.

33:31 No, nobody in this building has an opportunity to go play on Sunday.

33:34 Like, so go take it." Yeah.

33:36 And uh I just couldn't pass on it.

33:38 And the arrogance in me said I wanted to walk away from the game.

33:41 So, I called him back.

33:42 So, so text me.

33:43 I keep the text message.

33:44 I'll show y'all.

33:44 So and so text me and said I'll be picking

33:46 you up from the airport at so and so time.

33:48 I said there seems to be misunderstanding, misunderstanding.

33:51 I won't be getting on the plane.

33:52 And I he said, "All right,

33:53 best of luck with everything." I knew that's when it was going to be over.

33:56 And uh that's when it was it, man.

33:58 I kept working with TP and that was great.

34:01 So you've kind of been the same guy since high

34:03 school when you told the high school coach like, "No, bro.

34:05 I'm good." And it's just you say it, you have this sense of confidence.

34:11 You know what you're going to do.

34:12 you know what you want and you just go do it.

34:14 Yeah.

34:14 Yeah.

34:14 Yeah.

34:15 It's It's been kind of beautiful to hear.

34:18 How do you assess your own NFL career looking back on it?

34:22 Cuz you're a coach now, so you get all kinds of different angles at it.

34:26 Yeah.

34:26 If I were a coach talking about um myself as a player,

34:32 if we had meetings or evaluation meetings,

34:36 um it would just be man uber talented dude.

34:41 just unfortunate that he got bit by the injury bug.

34:45 And that's the coach.

34:48 My self-reflecting on my career says that my career

34:52 for all I expected to get out of it was successful.

34:55 Like I cried every time I made a team.

34:57 You Yeah, cuz you had zero expectations, too.

35:00 Like I I never I never thought I could be here.

35:02 And every time and I work my butt off and I try

35:04 and I there's one game in my entire NFL career that I

35:08 knew for a fact that I was bagging it in because I

35:10 thought the se I thought the Seahawks were going to cut me.

35:13 So I didn't want to get injured.

35:15 So I'm like I'm just going to I just got to make sure I don't get injured.

35:18 That's the only game in my career that I can recall and it's it's it stings me

35:22 that much that I remember it that um where

35:25 I didn't play with everything I had in my body.

35:28 Cuz you weren't going to get cut.

35:29 She like, "Bro, as long as I don't get hurt, I'm good." That's right.

35:32 I'm like, as long as I

35:32 You only had that feeling one time.

35:34 That's it.

35:34 One time.

35:34 Other than that, um, what I'm most proud of, uh,

35:38 you know, I I wanted to make the money.

35:41 I was 3 weeks away from getting a second deal in New England.

35:43 Whether that's true or not, that's what my agent told me.

35:45 So, like, he was like, "Hey, man.

35:46 Look, Bill's going to They love you.

35:48 They love the way you do things.

35:49 We're not going to go into free agency, do this thing.

35:51 It's not going to be a lot of money, but it'll be a deal.

35:54 Cool.

35:54 I'm from Cincinnati, bro.

35:55 I don't need a lot of money to make stuff shake, you know?" Um,

35:58 and so I was I was close to getting that in the riches.

36:01 Um, but I played in the National Football League, man.

36:04 I touched that grass and it wasn't it

36:06 wasn't like somebody just gave me a chance like,

36:09 "Hey man, you know, so and so was hurt." Like, I made the 53.

36:12 I made the team.

36:13 I went out there with the greatest one

36:15 of the greatest defenses to ever touch the grass, right?

36:18 With some of the best players to ever

36:21 play the game at their respective positions, at least in my eyes.

36:24 Like, I earned that.

36:25 I worked hard for that.

36:26 At one point in time,

36:28 just like you all and some people and many people listening to this, there

36:31 was one point in time where there were only it's grown now,

36:34 but at the time it was like 1562.

36:36 There are only 1,500 people that can say that they are the best

36:39 players on planet earth and I was one of them, you know,

36:43 like I was on that 50 like I was one

36:44 of the best football players on planet earth and that is undeniable,

36:49 you know, like so that was success.

36:50 So I I say that from the football perspective.

36:52 I don't want people to think I don't love ball.

36:54 I love ball.

36:55 passionate about it.

36:56 But my most thing that I'm proud of, man, was the teammate that I was.

37:00 And it took reflection to realize that, you know,

37:02 um that I could still have relationships with every team

37:05 that I played on, with every teammate that I had, man.

37:08 I I had good relationships.

37:09 I built friendships.

37:10 And I realized God's purpose in my life sometimes, man,

37:14 maybe it wasn't to make maybe it wasn't to be the first rounder that I thought

37:18 I was going to be or that my coaches thought I could be or second rounder.

37:21 Maybe it wasn't to go make all the money and make all the plays,

37:25 but it was the fact that uh when I'm in LA,

37:27 I can call Brandon Mi Bang and go over to his house and hang out with him.

37:31 That when we had our Super Bowl reunion, um they passed the phone around.

37:35 I wasn't able to make it.

37:36 I was coaching, but they pass the phone

37:37 around and I get chills and everybody's just as happy to see me despite the fact

37:41 that I wasn't I wasn't a superstar on the team.

37:45 like that I can go to Chicago or you know and I can get voted to be

37:49 a captain despite the fact that they knew I

37:51 wasn't going to catch uh I was I wasn't

37:53 catching a dig a deep ball p I wasn't doing any of that but I was going

37:56 to block my butt off and I was going to play any team that you asked me to play

37:59 on and in New England like that I had

38:01 some very intimate conversations you know with Grank when

38:06 he was going through some injuries that he probably

38:09 wouldn't share with other people but at least I was

38:10 there he he had somebody to talk to cuz

38:12 we was going through at the same time That's

38:14 why I think it was a success because I

38:17 think most people make out trying to be the superstar,

38:19 but Seattle taught me on that team that it was

38:23 just about the the sum of the of the parts, not just one individual piece, man.

38:27 So, that's why I say it was a success as a player.

38:30 The coaches say bit by the uh bit by the bug.

38:33 Talented dude, bit by the bug, but myself, man,

38:37 there's no way I can look on her and say it was a failure.

38:39 That was a great coach's answer as well.

38:41 what that's kind of a little bit of insight of what they look at players when

38:45 cuz you're part of the evaluation process now.

38:47 So you you spit it right out.

38:50 I like the both sides how you do that though as a player.

38:52 I say this as a coach.

38:54 I think that's like it's it's good insight

38:56 to look at it through two different lenses.

38:58 Would you two say the same thing about you?

39:00 Like how would you all assess your career and not giving a long winded answer?

39:04 Good teammate.

39:04 I think all my teammates,

39:06 the two teams that I played on, they would say the same thing.

39:09 Yeah.

39:10 great teammate and just comedic relief.

39:14 Yeah.

39:15 Um for me, um as a player, I was never the best player on any team I think I've

39:21 ever been on, even going back to high school in my opinion.

39:24 Um but I am a person that's I thrive in the gray.

39:30 Not a black and white guy.

39:31 So it's like the gray, the unknown, like I can make anything happen.

39:36 Very smart guy.

39:37 And talking about you said you was in a gray.

39:39 I thrive literally thrive in the gray.

39:45 Just wanted to That one's for you, Thomas.

39:47 That one's for you.

39:48 Don't edit that out.

39:49 Thrive in the gray.

39:50 And so I think the best compliment I ever got as a player was that I'm a pro.

39:56 And so that means I did it the right way.

39:58 I was on time.

40:00 I'm reliable.

40:01 And ultimately, like it's the same thing that you talk about on the evaluations.

40:05 Can you trust him?

40:06 Mhm.

40:06 Damn right, coach.

40:08 Throw him in anything.

40:09 He'll get us out of it.

40:10 And that's the type of players that you really want

40:13 at the especially on the back end of your defense.

40:15 So, let's let's transition.

40:17 You you're out of the league.

40:18 You're you're starting to work at the the league

40:20 office and the uh NFL Legends development program.

40:25 Yeah.

40:24 Communications and marketing.

40:26 That's right.

40:27 How was that from playing to now you're behind a desk

40:32 on a phone computer and encourage more guys to do that?

40:35 Cuz I don't think many people know a lot of guys are just lost in transition.

40:40 Yeah.

40:40 Uh I think it started off with the um with the foresight

40:44 to be able to call TV and say and utilize the league, right?

40:48 He made that promise to me four years prior and I I

40:51 took him up on it and sure enough he answered the phone.

40:53 Now I'm not saying everybody can call TV, right?

40:56 But like there's there there is an opportunity

40:59 for you and there are resources available to you.

41:01 So like for me I just I took advantage of it

41:04 and they they rolled out the red carpet for us.

41:06 It was actually three of us in my my rotation.

41:09 Uh myself, Usama Young and um Derel Young and D is now the director

41:15 of player development with the Steelers and Us

41:17 is with the with the Giants, right?

41:19 It was a phenomenal experience.

41:22 It's like for whatever reason, man,

41:23 I had the awareness that when I walked in the building that they that most

41:26 people were going to assume that I walked in the building with my chest out

41:28 because I was a former player that most of the,000 or 1100 employees at 345

41:34 Park were like the reason that you're here is because of the Miis of the world.

41:39 Like it's just and nobody knew it about me.

41:41 Like that's not the approach that I was going to take, man.

41:43 I was going to hang up.

41:45 I was going to come in.

41:45 I was going to sit down at my desk in my cubicle like everybody else.

41:48 I was going to try to be a good teammate to everybody.

41:51 Um I had some people had played college athletics

41:54 on our team but for me nobody had been as at least

41:57 on the team had been in at least in my opinion

42:01 some of the highressured environments that we had been in.

42:04 So I would you know pressure in these situations and all our tent pole

42:08 events and things that we had to do that wasn't going to bother me much.

42:10 You know what I was going to do?

42:11 I was going to get the job done and I was going to encourage my team

42:14 to do the same and we going to have some hard days but we going to enjoy it.

42:16 We going to love it up a little bit.

42:18 So that was my approach to it was just to be humble about it.

42:21 just to take in everything I could.

42:22 Again, like this is where I thought my life was going

42:25 to be was from in a in a corporate route, if you will.

42:27 Um, but what I got to learn there and what I

42:31 wanted to take from the building was not just show up.

42:35 Hey, I got a former player.

42:36 I got an opportunity here, man.

42:38 Let me, you know, let me just kind of soak

42:40 this thing in and see what h what happens.

42:42 No, no, no, no.

42:43 Like, I want to be involved in the meetings.

42:46 I want to come up.

42:46 I showed up on Sunday at the operations command center.

42:50 Um, I did a volunteer to Sunday at the Art McN Replay Center just to go sit

42:54 in and see how kind of the behind

42:55 the scenes worked and the operations worked of it.

42:58 Um, I traveled to different sites with Don,

43:01 you know, I traveled to game sites with Don.

43:03 I wanted to understand the purple hat, the red hat,

43:05 the yellow hat and and how that worked

43:07 and and the the backside of the game and that perspective.

43:10 I met with different departments, you know, I met with uh CP Consumer Product.

43:15 I wanted to know what it took to be able to license a thing.

43:18 So, if a player came to me with licensing, instead of saying, "Hey, TP,

43:22 this player wants to license these uh

43:25 these these these uh gowns for a barberh shop,

43:29 I want to know who is it that we go to and what is it that they do?" And I got

43:33 to see the manual that you have to fill out

43:36 to in order to be an official licency of an NFL product.

43:39 Like, so it was super cool to understand the behind the scenes and really

43:42 kind of figure out exactly where I wanted to go in the building.

43:45 And then being able to work with the team that I worked with, man.

43:48 Tracy, I I can't sing her praises enough.

43:51 Like Tracy, Laura, April, Melissa, KB, John, Chris.

43:57 I wanted to give out my team a shout

43:59 out because they were phenomenal to work with, man.

44:02 They embraced me.

44:03 We loved one another.

44:04 Like at one point in time it was the most fun like

44:08 outside of playing football it was the most fun job I'd had because

44:12 I think of the team that I got to work

44:13 with but the the the the things that we got to do man and I

44:17 encourage all of the former players or players that are in transition

44:21 like the resources are available like

44:23 we helped oversee the legends community myself

44:26 and a guy named Patrick and TP we helped oversee the legends community

44:30 and my direct responsibility in the legends community was I wanted to we

44:35 had a spreadsheet of all our legends and I was slowly turnurning

44:38 and burning just calling all everyone like name by name by name hey

44:43 this Greg Scrugs former player just want to make sure you know

44:46 these resources are available to you some people the old school guys like

44:51 where you at the league office click it's like no I'm going

44:54 to call you back bro here no you need to hear this like

44:58 I'm here I'm telling you there are a lot of resources available

45:01 to you if you are willing to reach out and take advantage of them.

45:04 And if you haven't signed up for Players Community,

45:06 if you haven't gotten in touch with your regional rep as a legend,

45:09 if you haven't done the things like there are people there to help

45:12 you maximize your transition out of the league and into, you know,

45:18 in Peanut's terms, civilian life, right?

45:20 How can we help you?

45:21 That was what was fun to me because I got to talk

45:24 to so many guys who just wanted somebody to talk some guy like,

45:28 "Look, I don't need anything, but can you send me a hat?" for sure.

45:32 Like I'm gonna go down.

45:34 I'm gonna find a hat for you.

45:35 And I took pride in running around that building

45:36 trying to find one hat to send this dude because

45:39 at least I knew it was going to bridge

45:40 the connection between the league office and the former players, man.

45:44 So, as you could tell, man,

45:46 I I glow about that job because I felt like it was important work,

45:49 you know, being responsible.

45:51 Lynn Swan at the Super Bowl,

45:52 he was one of the guys I had to, you know, um, manage, if you will.

45:57 I was his I was his contact at the Super Bowl.

46:02 Lazison.

46:02 Yeah, liaison.

46:02 There you go.

46:03 I was his liaison at the Super Bowl in 17.

46:06 Well, after they did kind of like the handwaving

46:10 um at the beginning of the pregame show,

46:14 Lince Swan needed to catch a flight to get back to California and I

46:17 had no idea where to go and he had no idea where to go.

46:20 And me and Lince Swan are running up the back

46:21 stairwell of Minnesota of the Vikings Stadium like together.

46:25 And I'm like, "Hey, we'll get you there.

46:28 I don't know how we going to get you there,

46:29 but let's just keep running up these stairs

46:30 and whatever." And I did get him there, but I took great pride in that.

46:34 Yeah.

46:34 Because a former player, a dude that's respect, a Hall of Famer, man, that dude,

46:38 he was taken care of by the league, man.

46:40 I took great pride in that.

46:41 And I got to be in a position to be

46:43 in front of guys to to help them in whatever way possible.

46:46 So, I encourage our our former players, man.

46:48 Like, I'm not a one-off, man.

46:50 We are here to want to help you guys.

46:52 And if you are in trouble or struggling with transition,

46:55 like reach out reach out to the league or reach out to a contact.

46:58 All you got to do is just look it up, man.

46:59 Former players, NFL, just Google something, right?

47:02 And you'll be directed to where we are, you know?

47:05 You know, um that that's what's important to me, man.

47:08 That so that's why it was a lot of fun.

47:09 And that experience was second to none.

47:12 You know, TP, like if they want to fire me,

47:15 like just keep a just keep a spot on your team for your boy, man.

47:17 I I come back.

47:18 I call them when they come to City say, "You need a deck hand.

47:21 I'm I'm available.

47:22 Yeah, I I'll do whatever.

47:24 I'll do the drive.

47:25 I I love that about you.

47:26 Um look, dude, you kind of

47:29 you you've been doing your own thing for a long time and it's worked.

47:33 Don't ever stop.

47:35 Um you have this sense of confidence and belief

47:37 in yourself and you kind of just do your own thing.

47:39 I love it.

47:39 You became the player development guy at Cincinnati.

47:43 That's right.

47:43 Yep.

47:44 And I I assume you got the connections

47:45 because once you started working at the NFL.

47:48 No, co No, that was cold call, man.

47:50 I was I was looking for jobs and I I was unsure

47:53 if I was going to be able to stay at the league office.

47:55 TP didn't have a didn't have a room on our team at the time,

47:58 but they were going to put me somewhere else in the league office.

48:00 Um, and I really wanted operations.

48:02 Like I felt I came second uh to being

48:06 a manager of operations at the league office,

48:08 which would have been phenomenal for me cuz ops is kind of where I wanted to go.

48:12 I saw this opportunity at the University of Cincinnati and just

48:15 like anybody in this building or in the world would.

48:18 I went on the website, found the listing,

48:21 put in my resume, filled out the application, applied, click send.

48:25 The only thing I did was I called my high school coach and said,

48:28 "Hey, do you know anything about this dude named Luke Fickle?

48:31 Like I just applied for a job there and I

48:33 just want to know who I'm going to work for.

48:35 I'm sure he's been through recruiting.

48:36 Can you tell me anything about him?

48:38 Like I just want to know who he is." And he said, "Yeah, man.

48:41 this guy, you know, whatever, you know, um, here.

48:44 Why don't I just call him and tell him that you applied?

48:46 Like, I said, "All good, coach." Like, I'm not that's not what I'm asking.

48:49 Like, I'll do it the hard way.

48:50 I just want to kind of know what it is.

48:52 He got in touch with Coach Fick.

48:53 Coach Fit called me and I was actually,

48:56 we're doing a Legend Summit in Scottsdale.

48:59 Uhhuh.

48:59 I left the Legend Summit.

49:00 I caught a redeye from Scottsdale to Cincinnati because I asked,

49:04 "Coach, I wanted to come see practice.

49:05 Like I just want to see how you operate before

49:08 I sign up to try to influ like I want

49:12 to be able to carry the message but I don't

49:15 want to carry the message for a message I don't believe.

49:19 Yep.

49:18 So I went showed up at practice saw it loved

49:20 the way he did stuff spoke to me and we called talked

49:24 about it and I took the job and I and I

49:27 got offered an opportunity um shout out Art sorry man and TV.

49:31 I got offered an opportunity to stay at the league office but I got to go home.

49:34 Yeah.

49:35 You do player development for a year.

49:38 Two two years.

49:39 And then how did you get transition to coaching?

49:42 Man, it was uh it was it was God thing, man.

49:45 It it was a God thing.

49:46 Okay.

49:46 I love when God pushes us.

49:48 That was uh that's where I felt like I I had a purpose.

49:51 Uh when I took the job at UC,

49:52 part of like the parameters of me taking that job was telling Coach Fic,

49:56 I want nothing to do with coaching.

49:57 Just so you're on the same page.

49:58 This is not a foot in the door for me to be a coach.

50:00 I only want to take care of these kids.

50:02 I was working um I was on senior leadership in two years.

50:06 I became senior leadership at the athletic department.

50:08 Um I was sitting in coaches meetings for our head coach, you know, taking notes.

50:12 Um I was trying to build relationships across campus.

50:15 I want I've only given the context.

50:16 I wanted nothing to do with coaching.

50:18 I only wanted to take care of the kids.

50:20 Shout out Mo Kelly who's actually director

50:21 of player development for um for the Seattle Seahawks.

50:25 He was my inspiration behind wanting to do that.

50:27 Okay.

50:28 because he took great care and still does the best in the business at his job.

50:32 He inspired me through through my injury.

50:35 I spent a lot of time with him and he

50:37 inspired me to want to be that I want to be

50:39 that for players like a a dude that's just I'm just

50:42 a resource to you to help you take advantage of whatever.

50:45 I mean, he's the reason I went to grad school when I was playing.

50:47 Like it was it was Mo who encouraged me to do that, man.

50:51 I wanted to be that for the guys.

50:52 Sitting at a mental health summit in you

50:56 at UCLA um trying to get better at my job.

51:00 I was the only non-licensed clinician at this summit,

51:03 but I felt like I was oftent times the first

51:06 point of contact when our student athletes were having issues,

51:10 traumatic issues, relationship issues,

51:12 um conflict within the locker room, right?

51:15 So, I had I was always I got to be better prepared.

51:18 I'm not a licensed clinician, but people do come to me with trauma, man.

51:22 So, I got to figure out It was at that summit

51:25 um the third day that our Dline coach left Cincinnati,

51:29 and I I read it on the ticker like everybody else,

51:32 and I had chills come over my body like, "You need to go do that, bro." So,

51:38 I sat on it two hours later, called my wife and said, "Hey, man.

51:42 I I think I'm I think I might go into coaching." To what?

51:46 So, I called somebody else.

51:48 Um, best advice they gave her.

51:50 Call somebody else who's already in coaching

51:52 to find out what you signing up for.

51:54 So, did that, called back.

51:55 How do you feel?

51:56 Feel good.

51:56 Great.

51:57 I called Fick and Marcus Freeman.

51:59 Shout out to them.

51:59 Like, hey, I know I said I would never coach,

52:03 but I think it's in the best interest of our program.

52:05 And I just feel something come over me that if you need me, call me.

52:08 Two weeks later, I walked down from my office

52:10 in a suit jacket and a tie with a resume

52:14 and had to go in the meeting room that I

52:16 walked in every day and had to interview with the staff.

52:19 Get up on the board, see what you know, see if this is good enough.

52:22 And they hired me.

52:24 And that's how I got into coaching.

52:25 And I met with a couple people.

52:27 I I dove head first.

52:29 I I took a bunch of notes and tried to write down everything I believed or what

52:33 I was taught as a what I thought

52:34 was um paramount or t thought about my experiences.

52:38 Wrote that down, studied, tried to put what I knew in my head on paper

52:43 in a way that could be explained to young people,

52:45 you know, explained to these young players

52:48 and um fortunately we hit the ground running.

52:51 And uh that's that's how it happened.

52:53 Literally just one day sitting at UCLA,

52:55 our D line coach had left our guys that will

52:58 be their fourth Dline coach in this many years.

53:01 I I already know the relationships.

53:02 I met with all their parents, got all their parents' numbers.

53:04 I know every kid on the team.

53:06 Like, I'm already here.

53:07 Let's do it.

53:08 And he he went through the process.

53:10 I mean, they did they interviewed other people and he interviewed me, too.

53:13 Like, it wasn't like, "Okay, you got it.

53:14 Move your stuff down." Like I said, I showed up in a suit jacket and a tie.

53:18 I waited in the lobby until they were ready.

53:20 And this is a place I work already.

53:21 Already got a key code.

53:22 Yeah.

53:22 Like I could just walk back there.

53:24 Hey Miss Sherry, like what you doing?

53:26 But I did.

53:26 I sat, waited, and then it happened.

53:28 I love it.

53:30 Influence.

53:30 I've had a lot of people have a lot of influence on my life.

53:34 Same with Rome.

53:35 I am here today because many people have poured into me.

53:42 Mhm.

53:42 If you had to pick four people that just had positive influence,

53:47 they poured into you, loved you, helped you get you to where you are today,

53:51 who would those four people be that's your own personal Mount Rushmore?

53:56 My great-grandfather, James Felton, Senior, Reverend James Felton,

54:00 Senior, got restless, passed away, man.

54:02 But, uh, I don't remember a lot of things he said to me,

54:04 but that's the man that he was.

54:06 World War II veteran, city worker, had his own church.

54:10 He was the epitome of um what I grew up to know pastors to be.

54:14 My family's from the south.

54:15 They're from Alabama.

54:17 And my grandfather like he he took from his own

54:21 pocket without having much to take care of his church.

54:25 Yeah.

54:24 Like he he would do he would give the shirt off his back for anybody.

54:27 And that's it.

54:28 Like my grandfather passed away.

54:29 We found out he was paying insurance for like three people, you know?

54:32 Like he give the shirt off his back to help somebody.

54:35 He worked in the city for 30 years.

54:37 because of Jim Crow, he weren't allowed to go to college

54:39 on a on a track scholarship despite being one

54:41 of the best track athletes in the city of Cincinnati and in the state of Ohio.

54:45 His numbers would say so, but didn't let it discourage him.

54:48 Uh was married to my great my great-grandmother for 50 years.

54:53 Um took care of our family patriarch.

54:56 I admire that dude.

54:57 So that's number one.

54:59 That'd be number one.

55:00 Obviously my mother.

55:01 Um and I can't say obviously cuz some people don't have that relationship,

55:04 but for me it's my mother.

55:06 hard worker, single working mom made it happen.

55:08 I tell everybody I was poor and never knew it.

55:10 I might have been poor in riches,

55:11 but I was rich in love and that was a direct result of my mother.

55:14 So, um, my mother, Steve Spec, my high school football coach,

55:19 the great, one of the greatest, if not the greatest orator I know.

55:22 I mean, he can tell you a message and he can tell you a message direct.

55:25 He won't say um, uh, nothing.

55:27 He's very direct.

55:28 He provides a lot of belief.

55:30 I still talk to him to this day.

55:31 I call him when I need advice.

55:33 So, he had a big impact on me.

55:35 The fourth, it seems like I leave out so many people,

55:38 but um it's just it's it's football and what football has done.

55:42 Like there's a couple people that are still influencing to this day.

55:45 Paul Thompson, he's he's somebody not a lot of people know.

55:48 Mary Beth Hogan, Kamice, the Lies, they're great.

55:50 Like they're my family though.

55:52 But you talk about impact and influence.

55:54 Clint Hurt Dline coach.

55:56 My Dline coach, man.

55:57 I I love that dude, man.

55:59 And the the more that I become a coach,

56:02 the more I realize what he saw and how he was trying to push me.

56:07 Yeah.

56:05 Like it's not I guess normal like we're in a competitive business.

56:10 He's got a job.

56:11 He's one of 32.

56:12 He's got a job that I want, right?

56:13 Like and and and so he ain't he knows he ain't compete with me,

56:17 but like so it may not be normal,

56:19 but I got no problem giving flowers or flowers need to be given.

56:22 And man, and Clint hurt, the way that dude pushed me,

56:25 the way he challenged me, the way that he loved on me,

56:28 like to make sure that I was going to make

56:32 the most of my career whether I wanted to or not.

56:35 Like, this is the type of guy that coach Herk was and it it influenced me.

56:38 We had a falling out at the end of my senior year.

56:40 I got in trouble and we had a falling out my senior year.

56:44 Like, straight up, I was injured, falling out straight up.

56:47 I'm like, I'm going to never talk to this dude again ever.

56:50 I get a call while I'm training for the combine and uh he said

56:56 the first thing he says when he answered the phone was hey mfer hey

57:01 man look I you we just don't talk now we just d right so

57:06 I'm like ah coach we good now don't give me that BS da da

57:09 da like this is what it is like sure I was frustrated I wanted

57:12 you to be better I was frustrated cuz you was injured I missed seven

57:14 games my senior year I was we wanted you to be better we wanted

57:18 it for you so it's frustrating that you

57:19 can't play like Of course, I'm frustrated.

57:21 You got in trouble.

57:21 I want that to happen.

57:22 Yada yada yada.

57:23 But you understand something like, dude, I love you.

57:26 I'm going to take care of you.

57:27 Like, you're good.

57:28 So, don't ever let that let that fall in the way

57:30 that it taught me something about relationships that there may be conflict,

57:33 but don't let that come in the way

57:34 with people who pour into you, care about you.

57:36 And um and again, do I believe I have the confidence that I do

57:41 as a player to play in the NFL if it weren't for that dude?

57:45 No, not at all.

57:46 So, my grandpa, my mom, um Steve Spec, my high school football coach,

57:51 and then uh Clint Hurt, because uh without that dude, I I mean,

57:55 the NFL gave me the platform to be able to coach, give me the credibility,

57:59 right, uh to substantiate my career as a coach, if you will.

58:02 But, um but without him and the way he pushed me,

58:06 I don't even sit here with y'all cuz I don't know if I ever have the confidence

58:09 or belief in myself or even get put

58:10 in a position to play in the National Football League.

58:13 And that dude again just what he believed in me

58:17 when I didn't really see it or believe it

58:19 in myself is is is what played into me being

58:21 to where I am today um from a career perspective.

58:25 So those four people kind of hit the corners of my life.

58:28 Human being coach um my mother just who she is.

58:32 Everything you hear about me that's my mama.

58:34 You drive past my mama in a flashy

58:35 car she look straight ahead like you don't exist.

58:38 She don't care about that.

58:38 But she'll be the first person to give

58:40 her last dollar to somebody on the street.

58:42 You know, that doesn't that doesn't mean anything

58:44 to her for for you to have flashes.

58:45 She don't care about big houses, none of that crazy stuff.

58:48 No, I mean, we rooted in what matters, right?

58:50 What's a person's heart like, you know, my my family is a family of service.

58:55 Yeah.

58:54 So, that's where my mother comes from.

58:56 You know, I told you about my grandfather, you know,

58:58 which means that my grandmother is the first lady of the church.

59:01 My great great grandmother, who I had until she was 103,

59:04 she was the mother of the church.

59:06 She sat on a prayer line from 6:00 p.m.

59:07 to 10:00 p.m.

59:08 until she could take her last breath praying for people.

59:11 Like we come from a family of service.

59:12 So that's the root of my mother.

59:14 And then who you are as a person, what you care about,

59:16 your belief in yourself and what you need to go attack and how to be something.

59:19 That's Steve Spec.

59:20 And then and then belief in you from from outside in.

59:23 Not that my family didn't, but they didn't care.

59:25 My mother wanted me to graduate high school.

59:27 But the family um you know from from a football family, a football perspective,

59:32 the belief in you, belief in yourself, that dog,

59:35 that grit like hurt wanted me to be angry

59:38 like, "Hey man, just go go." He would piss me off at practice intentionally

59:41 because he know he know then I would uncoil everything I had in my body, right?

59:46 Like not in a bad way on somebody.

59:47 That's what I would go.

59:48 And and he would never congratulate me for it.

59:51 No, I want to keep it.

59:52 That's exactly what you what you want.

59:54 You know, I was I would look at him for for you know my approval

59:56 for his approval and he say that's exactly what I expect you to do.

1:00:00 Little harsh, but I get it.

1:00:03 I understand what he's trying to uncor.

1:00:04 though man those those four people and there's a lot

1:00:07 of people I left out but they they know

1:00:09 the thing about me man like I they know where

1:00:11 I stand with them you know like I don't have to

1:00:13 it's all good you ain't got to apologize your for your

1:00:17 that's right those are my four man all I

1:00:20 can tell you is I thoroughly enjoyed your conversations

1:00:23 and your stories and just you literally walk

1:00:27 to your own beat like you just now I'm I'm quadrum quadrum all day like I'm Yep.

1:00:35 I'm not doing that.

1:00:36 Even as such a a young kid to to now.

1:00:38 And I I love who you are as a person.

1:00:40 I appreciate that.

1:00:41 And it's it's done you well.

1:00:43 And hey, not that you going to listen to this, but I hope you do.

1:00:46 Don't change.

1:00:47 Just keep doing you.

1:00:48 Keep doing you, man.

1:00:49 It's it's worked out well for you.

1:00:51 It really has.

1:00:52 For sure.

1:00:52 Uh you're you're highly blessed and favored.

1:00:56 uh you know from growing up with a single mom,

1:00:59 but you've had a lot of great male influence in your life and you can tell.

1:01:04 Appreciate you guys.

1:01:04 No, thank y'all, man.

1:01:05 Much respect to y'all.

1:01:06 Like like I said, the reverence and respect that I have

1:01:09 for the game and the way that y'all played the game, you know what I mean?

1:01:11 Like it's it's just uh it doesn't it doesn't go

1:01:14 unnoticed whether people want to notice it or not, you know?

1:01:17 Like the the the way that you played is how I was raised in football.

1:01:22 It people getting away from that a little bit, I think.

1:01:24 Um, but it's how I'm raising my kids to play.

1:01:27 You know, I'm just raising I'm raising my my children how to play the game, man.

1:01:30 You go play in between the lines.

1:01:31 You be respectful.

1:01:32 You work as hard as you can.

1:01:34 And it's guys like y'all,

1:01:35 and I'm not saying this cuz I'm sitting in front of y'all.

1:01:37 It's because I know who y'all are.

1:01:38 Before they told me who I was doing the podcast with, right?

1:01:41 Um, so I want to make sure I get the flowers to y'all, man.

1:01:44 Like, I I respect the hell out of, especially as a coach now.

1:01:47 Like, I'm trying to influence guys.

1:01:48 I'm trying to coach guys to move the way that y'all

1:01:51 set the standard for me to come in and play.

1:01:54 feel like some people getting away from it,

1:01:55 but I'm trying to make sure our game stays true to that, which is man,

1:01:59 you man, be a good teammate.

1:02:00 Make people laugh, man.

1:02:01 Do your job.

1:02:02 You ain't got to be the smartest, hardest, fastest hitting, whatever.

1:02:05 But like, pour into you and I promise you it'll work out.

1:02:07 And if it doesn't work out, hey, man, dude, look, man.

1:02:09 You made to National Football League, dude.

1:02:11 We here.

1:02:11 Let's go make something else shake.

1:02:13 Whatever that second career, whatever that second chance may be,

1:02:16 whatever that second act may be, let's go do it, man.

1:02:19 And uh so I appreciate you guys for the foundation that you laid.

1:02:22 And I think more guys and more players, younger players, um,

1:02:28 they'd be better off if they just took a second to listen, listen to you,

1:02:31 listen to to your stories and what you shared and how y'all

1:02:34 done it or watch the tape and how y'all played the game, man.

1:02:37 I think we'd be better off.

1:02:38 But that's why I'm here.

1:02:38 That's why I'm coaching.

1:02:39 That's what I'm trying to do.

1:02:40 But want to make sure I told you guys while I got you guys to your face, man.

1:02:43 That I respect you guys.

1:02:44 I really do respect the way you guys played the game prepared cuz I

1:02:47 was a fan of it and it's how I learned how to do it.

1:02:50 So, appreciate y'all, man.

1:02:51 Good job taking the compliment, Peanut.

1:02:52 He's gotten really good at that.

1:02:54 Um, all right.

1:02:55 Well, thank you for all of our viewers and listeners out there.

1:02:57 Wherever you pick up your podcast, whether it's Apple Podcast,

1:03:00 iHeart Radio app, make sure you continue to tune in.

1:03:02 Tell a friend to tell a friend to do what, Peanut?

1:03:04 Tell a friend.

1:03:05 There we go, man.

1:03:05 Hit that like, subscribe, follow.

1:03:07 Make sure you leave a couple comments.

1:03:08 Thomas loves to answer them.

1:03:10 And so, uh, you can also check us out on the NFL pages YouTube channel.

1:03:14 We're getting our views up every single day and week.

1:03:17 Peanut, get us up out of here, my man.

1:03:19 I'm Peanut.

1:03:20 That's Roman.

1:03:21 That's Greg.

1:03:22 Hey, and this is the NFL Players Second Act podcast.

1:03:25 So we out.