If Patel doesn't want reports on him, he should start acting like a professional: Fmr. FBI official

0:01 Joining us on MSNOW Justice and intelligence reporter Ken Deney,

0:03 and he co-authored the story.

0:04 Former senior executive in the counterterrorism division of the FBI

0:08 and MSNOW National Security and intelligence

0:11 analyst Christopher O'Leary and Lisa Rubin, who is still with us.

0:15 Ken, give us more on your reporting.

0:19 Katie, what our sources are saying is

0:20 so extraordinary about this is, number one, they've never heard of a leaks

0:24 investigation based on disclosures that weren't classified.

0:27 And there is nothing obvious in that story,

0:29 which was really about Kash Patel's work habits and his alleged drinking.

0:33 Nothing that we seem remotely classified.

0:36 And then the other thing is that our sources

0:37 are telling us that the investigation appears to be focusing,

0:40 at least in part, on on the journalist, Sarah Fitzpatrick,

0:43 who authored the article as a way of ferreting out her sources.

0:47 And that is contrary to decades of precedent

0:49 inside the Department of Justice and the FBI,

0:52 where, yes, there are leaks investigations

0:54 and when classified material has been disclosed.

0:57 But the journalist is the last place they try to go.

0:59 And in fact, there have been guidelines in previous administrations.

1:03 Essentially, in the Biden administration, they made it impossible to subpoena

1:06 the phone records of a journalist, for example.

1:09 And in other administrations, it was supposed to be a last resort.

1:12 You had to exhaust every other option.

1:13 What we're told is that they're starting with Sarah Fitzpatrick and that there

1:18 is the potential that they will seize her phone records through a subpoena

1:21 that they will run her name through FBI databases and take other intrusive

1:25 steps that the Atlantic Magazine is saying is an attack on press freedom.

1:29 Now, I should add that the FBI is denying that Sarah

1:32 Fitzpatrick is under investigation INVESTIGATION

1:33 OR THE SUBJECT OF AN INVESTIGATION.

1:35 THEY'RE NOT DENYING THAT THERE IS AN INVESTIGATION INTO THE DISCLOSURES,

1:38 BUT OUR SOURCES ARE ADAMANT THAT, IN FACT, THE INSIDER THREATS UNIT BASED down

1:43 in Huntsville is focusing on Sarah Fitzpatrick, the journalist, Katie.

1:47 Ken, they denied that the reporting was accurate.

1:50 So if they're investigating the leak, are they confirming the reporting is

1:57 THAT IS AN EXCELLENT AND INSIGHTFUL QUESTION,

1:59 ACTUALLY, THAT SOURCES HAVE RAISED TO ME ALL DAY.

2:02 WHY DO THEY CARE ABOUT THIS STORY SO

2:04 MUCH IF THEY ARE SAYING THAT IT'S INACCURATE?

2:08 THAT IS AN I'M NOT CONCERNED THAT FBI OFFICIALS ARE VIOLATING THE MEDIA

2:13 POLICY AND MAKING THINGS UP TO REPORTERS

2:15 TO IMPUG THE REPUTATION OF THE DIRECTOR.

2:17 BUT THAT'S THE RUB HERE IS THAT IS

2:19 THIS JUST KASH PATEL using FBI resources to pursue

2:23 leaks that essentially harmed his reputation that have

2:26 nothing to do with national security or policy.

2:28 That's the question that people are raising, and it's a troubling one, Katie.

2:31 Yeah, here's the thing, and Chris, I and I don't need to point this out to you,

2:34 Kash Patel's been on camera chugging beers.

2:36 We all saw him chugging a beer in the locker

2:39 room of the men's hockey team after the Olympics.

2:41 So reputational I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT TO ASK ON THIS.

2:49 WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE INVESTIGATION?

2:51 LISTEN, IT'S BASELESS.

2:52 IT'S A CLEAR ABUSIVE POSITION.

2:55 YOU KNOW, LISTEN, And every FBI agent and FBI employee swears

2:59 an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.

3:03 I did that both as a United States Marine and an FBI agent.

3:06 And to a person in the FBI,

3:08 my teammates to the left and the right of me saw that as, you know,

3:13 something that was their priority, you know,

3:15 a belief in duty, honor and country.

3:17 And unfortunately, the director of the FBI right now doesn't believe in that.

3:23 He believes in loyalty to the MAGA movement and to, to POTUS.

3:28 And, you know, going after the press is a flagrant

3:32 attack on one of our founding principles AS AN FBI AGENT,

3:37 YOU CANNOT OPEN UP INVESTIGATIONS BASED ON SOMEBODY'S SPEECH,

3:43 THEIR FIRST AMENDMENT OF PROTECTED RIGHTS.

3:45 YOU CAN'T GO AFTER THE PRESS.

3:47 BUT NONE OF THOSE standards seem to matter anymore.

3:51 And, you know, Kash Patel and other false patriots very conveniently shred

3:57 the Constitution as quickly as they can when it is inconvenient for them when,

4:02 you know, such granular reporting comes out about

4:06 things that we're already seeing with our own eyes.

4:09 If he doesn't want critics to continue to report on him,

4:12 he should start acting like a grown UP LIKE A PROFESSIONAL

4:16 AND LIKE YOU WOULD EXPECT THE DIRECTOR OF THE FBI TO BE.

4:19 LET'S TALK ABOUT THE PATTERN.

4:21 IN APRIL, THE NEW YORK TIMES REPORTED THE FBI

4:23 BEGAN INVESTIGATING ONE OF ITS REPORTERS FOR VIOLATING STOCKING LAWS.

4:27 WE COVERED THIS HERE ON A STORY THAT WAS

4:30 ABOUT KASH PATEL'S GIRLFRIEND USING FBI SECURITY RESOURCES.

4:35 IN JANUARY, THE FBI CONDUCTED A COURT-AUTHORIZED AND UNPRECEDENTED SEARCH

4:39 OF THE HOME OF A WASHINGTON POST REPORTER HANNAH NATENSEN SEIZING TWO COMPUTERS,

4:44 A RECORDER, A GARMIN WATCH, A PHONE AND A PORTABLE HARD DRIVE.

4:49 I BELIEVE SHE JUST WON A HIGH-PROFILE, PRESTIGIOUS JOURNALISM AWARD.

4:52 AND THE FBI ALSO LAUNCHED AND internal inquiry

4:55 after former NBC News contributor, our friend here,

4:59 Frank Fagluzzi, made comments about Patel's alleged socializing

5:02 and work habits last year on Morning Joe.

5:04 A judge tossed Patel's defamation lawsuit by the way.

5:08 What about the pattern?

5:10 I mean, that's three pretty specific examples

5:13 of stories that were not flattering for Kash Patel.

5:17 And then suddenly these reporters are find themselves in the hot seat.

5:24 Yeah, I think the issue is, I mean, this most recent example, you know,

5:28 that Ken and Carol have reported on is just another data

5:32 point of why he should not be the director of the FBI.

5:36 He lacks the experience, the character, the maturity, the disposition,

5:40 the judgment to hold such an important position and the country is

5:46 less safe every day that he's allowed to remain in that position.

5:50 And I'll make one final point, and Lisa can amplify it, I'm sure.

5:53 But as an FBI agent,

5:54 I could not conduct investigations into what were clearly hate groups,

6:02 because hate speech is not against the law.

6:06 So the most vile and objectively kind

6:10 of violent speech is still protected by, you know,

6:14 our Constitution or our Bill of Rights.

6:16 We're not allowed to conduct investigations based solely on that.

6:20 You cannot conduct investigations on the press based solely on their reporting.

6:24 And we're seeing the abuse of power and the weaponization

6:28 of the FBI play out in front of us, and it should alarm every American.

6:32 And let me just be clear, Hannah Nattinson had reported on the Trump

6:36 administration's downsizing of the federal workforce.

6:38 The FBI search was part of an investigation into a government

6:42 contractor who the Justice Department

6:43 said had leaked her classified information.

6:46 By the way, she just won a Pulitzer.

6:48 That's the award I was referring to.

6:50 Lisa, let's talk about the legal avenues a little

6:52 bit more because the Atlantic says they'll fight this.

6:55 How far can the FBI go with a journalist, with Sarah Fitzpatrick?

7:00 Can they really just seize all of her materials and be

7:04 as intrusive as they can potentially or Ken was laying out legally speaking?

7:09 Or can the Atlantic get involved early and get a judge to stop this?

7:15 You can't do it in a preventative way,

7:17 but you can do, for example, what the of property.

7:33 But Katie, I want to point out something to you that is,

7:36 I think, reflective or at least emblematic

7:38 of the pattern that you were discussing.

7:40 And that's an April 2025 memo by the now

7:43 acting attorney general Todd Blanche that rescinded a Garland era

7:47 or Biden era policy about when you could subpoena

7:50 the news media and involve them in these leak investigations.

7:54 Ken was noting before that it didn't used to be the case

7:57 that you would have a leak investigation about something that's non-classified.

8:00 But under this new Todd Blanche memo from April of last year,

8:04 you certainly can do that.

8:06 And they say that the government will not tolerate and I'm

8:09 reading from the memo unauthorized

8:11 disclosures that undermine President Trump's policies,

8:14 victimize government agencies and cause harm

8:16 to the American people where a government employee

8:19 improperly discloses sensitive information for the purposes

8:23 of personal enrichment and undermining our foreign policy,

8:26 national security and government effectiveness.

8:28 They will go after that person.

8:31 That is basically saying, A, the information can only be sensitive,

8:34 doesn't need to rise to the level of classified and it

8:37 doesn't have to implicate our national security or defence in any way.

8:41 It can just be compromising government effectiveness.

8:44 Under this sort of memo,

8:44 you can see how someone might justify to themselves the kind

8:49 of investigation that Ken and Carroll so ably reported on earlier today.