The Video That AIPAC Spent $10 Million to Suppress

0:00 The last time you were on this show was almost exactly 2 years ago.

0:04 It was a little later in May, I think.

0:05 You had just won your primary.

0:07 75%

0:08 Yes.

0:08 In the middle of that conversation,

0:09 you said, "Yeah, there's this group called AIPAC,

0:13 and here's how they go about corralling support in the Congress,

0:16 and they have minders that follow you around, and I just don't hate Israel.

0:19 I don't support foreign aid to anybody,

0:21 and I don't have an AIPAC minder." And I remember thinking, "Boy,

0:26 I've never heard anybody explain how this works in the way

0:30 that you did." I felt like that conversation was a pivot point.

0:34 They've called you a bigot, and they call you an anti-Semite,

0:39 and say you're a hater, and try to destroy your character.

0:41 That seems like a very different level of response to me.

0:45 Right.

0:45 They There's no need to do that.

0:47 I'm not anti-Semitic.

0:48 I don't have an anti-Semitic hair in my head, okay?

0:52 It's I I mean, I don't like AIPAC anymore.

0:56 Like, I used to be neutral toward AIPAC, right?

0:59 But I I have no antagonistic feelings toward Jewish people.

1:05 I I am the last thing I think

1:07 I'm probably the least xenophobic person in Congress.

1:10 I mean, these are the guys that My colleagues want to sanction everybody,

1:14 you know, declare them terrorist states, you know,

1:16 come up with these strongly worded resolutions.

1:18 I don't vote for any of that crap, right?

1:20 I'll Unless somebody does harm to me, I'm not going to call them anything.

1:25 So, I get called names just for staying out of all of this political posture.

1:30 disgusting, though, isn't it?

1:32 You know, I guess I Attack on character.

1:34 They can They can disagree with your views,

1:35 but but to call you like the worst thing you can be in America,

1:38 like that's disgusting.

1:41 Uh you know, I got I have a thick skin.

1:43 Uh and [laughter] And here's the good news, Tucker.

1:46 My My constituents aren't falling for it.

1:49 2 weeks ago, I just had a primary and got 76% of the vote.

1:53 With AIPAC running hundreds of thousands dollars ads.

1:57 So, it's it's not working against me.

1:59 I I think it's short-sided uh on their, you know, on their side to do this.

2:05 They're just burning money.

2:06 But, they're trying to make an example of me.

2:08 But, they're also exposing their weakness.

2:11 I think they are.

2:11 I think they've exposed a real weakness here.

2:14 And, you know, it used to be just me voting against some of these resolutions,

2:18 but recently where they tried to ban passages in the New Testament,

2:22 I think we got like almost two dozen Republicans who said, "Wait,

2:25 hold on there." Let me ask you a question though, just a fundamental question.

2:28 So, the Biden administration has put a bunch

2:30 of people in jail for violating something called FARA,

2:32 the Foreign Agent Registration Act 1936-ish.

2:35 It's been on the books for, you know, 90 years.

2:38 Um and it's never been enforced ever until recently,

2:42 until really the Trump era and Biden era.

2:46 So, but the law requires people who

2:48 lobby on behalf of foreign governments to register.

2:51 It's that simple.

2:52 And this is the largest lobby in the United most effective

2:55 lobby in the United States on behalf of a foreign government.

2:57 Are they registered with FARA?

2:58 They are not, but they should be.

3:00 Well, how how can that how can that be?

3:01 How can they put Paul Manafort in jail, which they did,

3:05 on a FARA violation and a bunch of other people in jail on FARA violations,

3:09 but the largest and most effective and most feared foreign lobby

3:12 working for a foreign government doesn't have to register under the law?

3:15 That's insane.

3:17 Oh, man, don't make me take their side,

3:19 but I'll explain as best as I can what their argument I mean maybe I'm wrong.

3:23 Maybe we should take their side.

3:25 I don't Well, I I'm going to agree with you in a second,

3:28 but let me at least offer what I think is their argument.

3:30 They they would say, "We are Americans.

3:33 You know, the members of AIPAC are Americans,

3:37 and that they have the right to free speech." Paul Manafort's an American.

3:41 Right.

3:41 Right.

3:42 [laughter] Yeah, that's So, there's the good rebuttal.

3:44 It FARA applies not to foreigners, to foreign agents, Right.

3:48 It's of foreign principals, agents of foreign principals.

3:52 lobbying on behalf of foreign government.

3:54 Correct.

3:54 So this is APAC is exactly what far is meant for.

3:57 Now they would say and we have a first amendment right.

4:00 Okay, well I I agree with you there, but we also have election laws.

4:04 And to the it's disclosure, right?

4:08 We're they're not far it doesn't say you can't say Thomas Massie's,

4:12 you know, an ignorant hillbilly.

4:14 You're allowed to say that if you want to, but we

4:16 just want to check where your money's coming from.

4:18 Tell us where it's coming from, what you're spending it

4:20 on and if you are lobbying on behalf of a foreign country.

4:25 So they should be now to your point, they should be registered with FARA.

4:30 This is what FARA is is where there's gray area,

4:33 where it's an American representing a foreign country.

4:36 Let's let's look and see if you're getting any money from that foreign country.

4:40 Are you a dual citizen with that foreign country?

4:43 Are you being directed by for instance is Netanyahu

4:47 speaking to your group advising you on your next move?

4:50 Those Are you getting money from the military industrial complex?

4:54 Like because to understand APAC,

4:57 I think it's easiest to model them as a military industrial lobby.

5:03 Like their biggest thing is they want more equipment,

5:08 more military equipment from the United States going to Israel.

5:13 In fact when they used to be allowed in my office,

5:16 the thing they argument they would make is oh we're just stimulating the US

5:20 military industrial complex because every single penny

5:25 of the 3.8 billion that they nominally get,

5:28 now they're getting way more than that, but that Israel

5:30 nominally gets goes to US military contractors.

5:35 Now that didn't make me warm and fuzzy, okay,

5:38 but that is their argument and if you notice what they advocate

5:41 for, I think sometimes they advocate

5:44 for things that even Israelis wouldn't advocate for.

5:47 that.

5:47 Like they would I think be okay with a war with Iran.

5:51 Like a all out, you know, apocalyptic war with Iran.

5:54 Whereas there are people in Israel say, "Whoa, hold on a second.

5:57 We'd We'd rather not have a war with Iran."

5:59 But AIPAC does things that lead us in that direction.

6:02 And so they're kind of like what the NRA is to gun owners, AIPAC is to Israel.

6:09 Or what the Farm Bureau is to farmers, AIPAC is to Israel.

6:13 In other words Represents a faction.

6:15 Right, they [clears throat] represent a faction,

6:16 but usually a corporate faction.

6:19 That uh and they're using the imprimatur of grassroots

6:23 that they've diluted or confused into bullying congressmen.

6:28 And the NRA does that and Farm Bureau does that.

6:30 I'm I'm picking on some, you know, other right-wing groups here.

6:34 Well, for for sure.

6:35 And by the way, I'm I think there probably a lot of things

6:37 that AIPAC is for that I'm for and Farm Bureau, NRA, same thing.

6:41 It's

6:42 I just the idea of a foreign

6:44 government playing in our political campaigns openly.

6:49 Openly in that uh they're showing you they're doing it,

6:53 but opaquely in that you can't track it because they're not registered.

6:59 Is Is there any other Republican who has your views on this?

7:03 Well, I have Republicans who come to me on the floor and say,

7:07 "I wish I could vote with you today.

7:09 Yours is the right vote, but I would just take too much flak back home."

7:15 And I have Republicans who come to me and say,

7:18 "That's wrong what AIPAC is doing to you.

7:20 Let me talk to my AIPAC person." By the way,

7:24 everybody but me has an AIPAC person.

7:26 Like What's that mean, an AIPAC person?

7:28 It's like your babysitter, your AIPAC babysitter,

7:30 who uh is always talking to you for AIPAC.

7:34 They're probably a constituent in your district,

7:37 but they are, you know, firmly embedded in AIPAC.

7:42 And every member has something like this?

7:45 Every I don't know how it works on the Democrat side.

7:48 Um but that's how it works on the Republican side.

7:51 And when they and when they come to DC, you go have lunch with them.

7:55 And they've got your cell number.

7:57 And you have conversations with them.

7:59 So I've had like That's absolutely crazy.

8:02 I've had four members of Congress say,

8:04 "I'll talk to my AIPAC person." And it's

8:07 literally what we call them, my AIPAC guy.

8:10 I'll talk to my AIPAC guy and see if I can get him to you know,

8:14 dial those ads back.

8:15 Why have I never heard this before?

8:17 It doesn't benefit anybody.

8:19 What Why would they want to tell their constituents that they've

8:22 basically got a buddy system with somebody who's representing a foreign country?

8:29 It doesn't benefit the congressman for people to know

8:32 that, so they're not going to tell you that.

8:34 It's It's in Have you seen any other country do anything like this?

8:37 Like Russia Russia obviously determines the outcome of our elections.

8:41 We keep hearing that.

8:42 Does anyone have a Putin guy that they talk to?

8:45 Not only do they not have a Putin guy.

8:49 [laughter] Look, they don't they they don't have a Britain guy.

8:52 They don't have an Australian guy.

8:54 They you know, they don't have a Germany dude.

8:57 Like It's the only country that does this.

9:01 That has somebody that like uniformly I guarantee you there's

9:05 some spreadsheet at AIPAC where where you know the the AIPAC

9:11 dude is who's matched up with the congressman is

9:13 there and then all the congressman's votes on the issue.

9:16 Oh, has the congressman been to Israel?

9:19 They they pay for trips for congressmen and their spouses to go to Israel.

9:23 I may be I mean I don't I'm not

9:26 the only Republican who hasn't taken the AIPAC trip to Israel.

9:30 But I'm probably one of a dozen that hasn't taken that trip.

9:33 The other ones just haven't got around to it.

9:36 What's the trip like, do you know?

9:38 Um it's kind of like I think vacation-y.

9:41 You go see the wall, you go see the you know the sites, um things like that.

9:47 It's such a great I must say it's such a great country.

9:50 Jerusalem especially is just such a wonderful place

9:53 that that's got to have a big effect.

9:55 You go like swim in the Dead Sea.

9:57 I've done that.

9:58 Yeah.

9:58 Not on an AIPAC trip, but I would recommend it to anyone.

10:01 sure it wasn't an [laughter] AIPAC trip?

10:02 Positive.

10:03 PAID FOR IT MYSELF.

10:04 NO, I mean it's It's just funny.

10:06 I mean I am like like a legit lover of Israel of the place Israel.

10:10 I like the people and I love the food and like the whole thing is so great.

10:13 Look, they have they've But that's distinct from the government

10:16 of Israel which is just a foreign government.

10:17 My my sense is the people are are very entrepreneurial.

10:21 Yeah.

10:22 That Totally.

10:23 They're publicly minded, you know, they care about their country.

10:28 Um that that they're generally good people, right?

10:31 That's certainly been my experience in trips there for sure.

10:34 It's great.

10:35 It's just that's I mean I think it's probably one of my favorite

10:37 maybe my all-time favorite place to go um with my family.

10:41 [clears throat] But that's just a completely

10:43 different thing from taking orders from its government.

10:47 Right.

10:47 Right I mean right?

10:48 Now they'll again they'll say it's these are

10:50 American citizens who are you know coordinating all

10:53 Here's just again this is almost a rhetorical question,

10:55 but in your whatever 12 14 years in Congress 12 years um have you

11:02 ever seen any indication that Russia is

11:04 influencing election outcomes or candidates or members?

11:07 Not not in a quiet way.

11:11 Like um you know they'll put out statements.

11:14 Russia obviously has with Russia today RT.

11:18 Yeah, I think it's been banned, but yeah.

11:20 I like they you know Kentucky Fried Chicken

11:22 of which I'm a big fan being from Kentucky, right?

11:25 They realized that fried was became sort of a pejorative

11:28 and people didn't want to eat fried food, so they changed the name to KFC.

11:32 So, you don't have to say fried, okay?

11:34 Russia today changed their name to RT, so you don't have to say Russia.

11:39 [laughter] But, there's a strong analogy there.

11:40 But, I mean, there are efforts.

11:43 You'd be uh a fool to think that they're not

11:46 trying to influence things here just like we are there.

11:49 We, you know, we have uh what is it?

11:52 Radio Free Europe and Voice of America.

11:55 We we have I mean, we spend a billion dollars over well over a billion

11:59 dollars on the foreign propaganda that's out

12:01 in the open that we know about, right?

12:03 So, there are foreigners spending money on propaganda over here as well.

12:07 I don't want to say they're not involved, but people don't say, "Oh,

12:10 I need to go talk to my Russia guy." But, you've

12:12 never like in the cloakroom or on the floor at dinner,

12:15 you've never heard another Republican member say,

12:17 "I'd love to vote for this, but Putin

12:19 doesn't want me to." I have never heard that.

12:21 You haven't?

12:22 [laughter] Okay.

12:23 What about China?

12:24 No.

12:25 There's I mean, unless it's a a spy sleeping with a Democrat.

12:29 [laughter] I'm sure there's some of that going on.

12:32 Yeah, but that's not that's not in public.

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