He Can't Code but His AI Agents Make Him $5K/Month

0:00 In the last 30 days, I made $5,000.

0:03 How technical is your background?

0:04 Do you know how to code?

0:06 I don't know anything about coding, nothing about tech, nothing at all.

0:09 Like, I still could not write you a single line of code.

0:11 And I was able to quit my normal job

0:13 and I already made 5 grand in my first month.

0:15 My life fully has changed.

0:17 This is easily like a 50, 60K, 70K a year job.

0:19 And I have agents doing this for me.

0:21 I just tell them what to do.

0:23 Man, my mind is blown right now cuz I'm thinking

0:25 of just like all these venture capitalists in Silicon Valley.

0:27 They're not going to have projects to give money to.

0:30 No.

0:30 Because what you're doing is something that a similar startup in Silicon

0:34 Valley would need to raise 1 to 7 million bucks for.

0:37 You would not be profitable today.

0:38 Period.

0:39 End of story.

0:40 If it weren't for these agents, right?

0:42 100%.

0:42 I could quit along the way, but I'm like, "No, I'm going to put my head down.

0:46 I'm going to make this work.

0:47 I'm going to take the bet on myself and be

0:49 a self motivator to actually be successful." Dude, it's inspiring.

0:52 I'm inspired, man.

0:53 I'm 20 years older than you and like I didn't know half of these tools existed.

0:57 My gosh, that's a huge find.

0:59 What other tools are in your tool belt that people have to use like yesterday?

1:06 Lots of talk lately about OpenClaw, the new AI agent that can,

1:09 you know, run your life or whatever.

1:11 But what if OpenClaw is already outdated?

1:13 Today, I'm talking to an 18-year-old that just viodated an app.

1:17 He has no technical experience whatsoever.

1:19 This app made $5,000 in the last 30 days.

1:22 He just viodated it a couple months ago.

1:24 And it's a pretty complex app.

1:26 It competes with a company that just raised $50 million.

1:28 So, we talked a little bit about how he built his app,

1:31 you know, how to vibe code apps,

1:33 but we also talked a lot at the end about AI agents,

1:35 what type of agent is better than OpenClaw,

1:38 few agentic tools out there that are changing the game.

1:41 He talks about what prompts we should use to vibe code better apps,

1:45 what tools we should use, and just super inspiring.

1:47 I mean, 18 years old, doesn't know how to code.

1:50 Please enjoy.

1:50 Veim, well, why don't you tell us who you are and what you do?

1:53 Hey, I'm Vadim and I'm the founder of Vugola,

1:55 which is a clipping starter for clippers and marketers and I'm scaling

1:58 that to be the number one clipping tool by the end of 2026.

2:01 Okay, so talk to people about clipping like

2:03 it's been around for a few years now.

2:05 Why is clipping important and what does it do?

2:07 So for example, all the streamers you see all the podcasters

2:10 see clipping is only become more relevant in the future.

2:13 That's why I started building my startup primarily

2:15 for clipping because like if you think about clipping,

2:18 it's purely organic marketing and it's a win-win

2:20 for both your client and the Clippers.

2:22 If the Clippers get paid a dollar per thousand views

2:24 and then the client gets like 100 million views, it's a win-win.

2:27 And in the future, I firmly believe the the future is short form content.

2:31 there only be more reels,

2:32 more like posts and clipping is going to be another like branch

2:36 of this marketing where it's going to like completely take over and especially

2:39 like content rewards w like the things that they're doing and like

2:43 changing the industry in itself like that's going to be just the future.

2:46 So that's why how I got into clipping.

2:48 And clipping essentially just in broken down terms is if you're at a podcast,

2:51 live stream, whatever you are,

2:53 if you so like if you post your own YouTube channel

2:55 and then you post your own shorts to your own YouTube channel,

2:58 that's only five channels of reach you have.

3:00 But if you have Clippers, they make up like 50 sub accounts in your name,

3:04 repurpose all the like they clip like they

3:07 bunch of clips to show content on all 50.

3:10 Now you have like 50 channels of eyeballs going all to you.

3:13 So that's basically what clipping is.

3:15 So, I think like the big elephant in the room,

3:17 the big question mark with clipping is how effective actually is

3:21 it at bringing short form viewers to long form viewers or listeners.

3:25 I've done quite a bit of clipping.

3:27 I've had an agency.

3:28 I've done on[ __] I've done it off.

3:30 I've got a bunch of accounts.

3:32 I've got my verdict.

3:33 I'm curious what what you've seen.

3:35 I know I know you're biased.

3:36 I know you're in the business of clipping,

3:38 but have you seen any sort of like a a correlation or a conversion rate?

3:43 like how many short form views equal one long form view or what whatever.

3:47 Yeah.

3:48 So I can't really tell you the exact metrics of clipping,

3:51 but it all comes down to how you package clipping.

3:53 Obviously like if you're a streamer,

3:55 you just want more people to know who you are.

3:57 For example, Clvicular says he has like a thousand plus clippers.

3:59 So his primarily like all of his clips are going

4:01 to be like him like quote unquote the mogging like

4:04 trend or him like looks maxing whatever it is

4:06 and that's the kind of clips like that the streamer has.

4:09 But I think clipping, if you want to tailor,

4:11 like you want to get eyeballs from your short form content to your long form,

4:14 it's really good for podcasters because if they see

4:16 your clip and they get value from the clip, like the clip is good quality,

4:20 they take something out of it on Instagram, on Tik Tok, on YouTube,

4:23 on like YouTube shorts, they will go find your channel,

4:25 subscribe because they're going to want to see more of that content.

4:29 So clipping like for podcasters is like pretty good.

4:31 Let's say for a streamer and like I

4:33 just want like you for entertainment, not for value.

4:35 That's like where the difference is because like it's it all comes down to like

4:38 are your clips like for entertainment or they

4:40 like actually value driven and for conversions.

4:42 So that's like you have the streamers of the world

4:44 and you have the podcasters of the world and I would

4:46 argue the podcasters have a higher conversion rate of people going

4:49 and viewing their podcast and just think a streamer probably would.

4:52 Yeah.

4:52 Okay.

4:52 Now I want to get into this app that you built.

4:55 Tell me tell me what you built and what inspired you to build it.

4:59 Yeah.

4:59 So it's a clipping scheduling captioning to allin-one.

5:02 And why I built this was before I started building any startups at all,

5:05 I wanted for us to take back like a step back and be like,

5:08 okay, wasn't we relevant in the next like six to like two years,

5:11 like six months to two years because the one

5:13 thing I see in the startup community is people

5:16 build 10 apps and they just like quote unquote

5:18 throw crap on the wall and just see whatever sticks.

5:20 They don't like actually take time to diagnose, research, and actually see like,

5:23 hey, let me build one legit complex software that can just go scale.

5:27 So I I'm like, okay, Clip is going to be the future of marketing.

5:30 Everybody's gonna be clippers.

5:32 And the one thing I I noticed that other clipping companies

5:35 don't do is tailoring for agents because the future is agentic systems,

5:39 pipelines, workflows.

5:40 So I'm like, okay, what if I just build out like

5:43 a prototype MVP stage of like just a normal clipping tool,

5:46 see if people actually want it, and then based based on what people say,

5:50 then I I'll start building out the agentic tool, the scheduling, the captioning.

5:52 So that's how I got into it.

5:54 And now we have a couple hundred paying users now.

5:58 We've generated I think over like 10,000 plus clips

6:01 and like so far the growth has been pretty steady.

6:05 So what is your MR?

6:06 What is your lifetime revenue?

6:08 Let's talk numbers but both like how long ago

6:11 did you found it and what are your numbers today?

6:14 Yeah, so in the last 30 days I made $5,000.

6:17 So in the last 30 days I made 5K as like no coding experience, nothing at all.

6:22 I started building in October.

6:24 I got into lovable.

6:25 I don't know what I was doing.

6:26 I was like cursing at the AI.

6:27 I was telling it you're not building me the right page.

6:29 You're not doing this.

6:30 And like only then I realized if AI gives you something bad,

6:32 it's a skill issue cuz AI can only

6:35 act on the minor context and prompt engineering again.

6:37 It's a skill issue with the user yourself.

6:39 Yeah.

6:40 So like Exactly.

6:40 Like I was like I was the most nubious vibe coder you probably like ever see.

6:45 Like I like asked Lovable to build me something.

6:47 Love like did not build what I wanted cuz obviously I

6:50 didn't tell it enough details and I would get mad at lovable.

6:52 So like that's how I started my vlog coding journey.

6:54 It was unlovable.

6:55 Then I moved to cloud code.

6:57 It was like it's a pretty complex software like taking clips, framing, cropping,

7:01 sort like it was like complex software and I like

7:04 had so much times to quit but I started like

7:06 so I when I got into cloud code everything started

7:08 working out like started picking it up and the last

7:11 probably like two months I actually started marketing it organically

7:14 on Twitter and it's purely off Twitter so far which

7:17 is also like a bad market for clipping like

7:19 in my opinion like I could scale way better on Instagram,

7:22 YouTube shorts, Tik Tok which I started posting now

7:25 but yeah purely on X in the last two

7:28 months when I actually started marketing it in like

7:30 the like the free like uh the public beta stage,

7:33 we made $5,000 in the last like 30 days.

7:36 Now, is that 5,000 from like monthly subscriptions or lifetime subscription?

7:40 What do you charge?

7:41 Yeah.

7:41 So, I have three three paid tiers.

7:43 So, first is like a $9 plan and then it's a $39 plan and it's a $99 plan.

7:48 So, for each monthly Yeah.

7:49 monthly monthly recurring revenue.

7:51 I also figured out that the way I can

7:53 like upsell like because like for if you're having

7:56 a a software business like if ideally your churn

7:59 rate like a user will go to your software and like if if you liked it or not

8:02 they're going to leave probably within the like the first

8:05 two to three months probably one to three months

8:07 they're going to cancel the subscription leave your software.

8:09 Believe it or not just because you're watching

8:11 this doesn't mean you're subscribed to my channel.

8:13 YouTube's going to show you stuff even if you're not subscribed to it.

8:16 Over half of people that watch my videos are not subscribed.

8:19 It would mean the world to me if you just hit subscribe.

8:22 Thank you so much.

8:23 So the way I even maximize my revenue even more is when for example when

8:27 I add like a monthly and yearly plan and then on top of that let's

8:31 say they have a month they chose a monthly plan and when they click

8:34 on the like get monthly plan a popup appears and sells them a quarterly plan.

8:38 So you want to keep upselling them like

8:41 better better deals maximizing how much revenue you can

8:43 take from your us from the like from the user because it from like one to three

8:47 months they're going to leave you and then

8:49 after like they s they pick their plan then you take them to a custom checkout

8:53 page where you upsell them additional free credits now.

8:56 So like it's like a onetime purchase for like a bunch of more credits.

9:00 It's like a really good value deal for the user.

9:02 When I did that I like saw like my revenue

9:04 kind of like just like like spike up on one day.

9:07 I think like one day I made like a like like 900 bucks just like in one day

9:11 after I made like the upselling perks and features

9:14 and now and you're just pro promoting this on Twitter.

9:17 You you're starting to do short form video but mostly just Twitter, right?

9:21 Yeah, purely Twitter.

9:22 Okay.

9:23 And how technical is your background?

9:25 Like did you know how to code

9:27 or is like vibe coding your first coding experience?

9:30 I don't know anything about coding, nothing about tech, nothing at all.

9:33 Like I kind of just learned along the way.

9:35 I'm like basically like your grandma.

9:37 I'm not even joking.

9:38 I don't know anything about like coding.

9:40 I'm basically your grandma that got into like tech and I

9:42 just over time I just like learned like and now

9:45 I know like the the basics of it probably but I

9:47 still could not write you a single line of code.

9:49 Why did you start with lovable and would

9:51 you recommend that people start with it?

9:52 I know you have a more complex app.

9:54 Most people are probably doing more

9:55 simple things but what's your recommendation there?

9:57 Honestly like looking back now I would not recommend Lovable at all.

10:01 First of like in my opinion it's too like too expensive and also

10:05 the designs and UI gives you is like it it looks like vi coded slop.

10:09 So like in the AI space like there's thing called like they

10:12 can tell if your website is vi coded or if it's not.

10:14 It's called AI slop which just means like your website

10:16 is like garbage and it's obviously made by AI.

10:19 And did like a horrible job on the designs.

10:21 Way too expensive.

10:22 Like I said like I spent like $500 of the monthly credits in the span of 4 days.

10:27 Maybe that's just a me problem, but I just burned through so much credits.

10:31 So like if you're if you're just beginning into VIP coding,

10:35 I would like the terminal looks very complex,

10:38 but basically all you need to know is like you need you need a backend server.

10:41 So like super base to like store all your data.

10:43 You need Versel to like for example you have a domain,

10:46 you need to host the domain on the server.

10:48 So you need Versel for that.

10:50 And then for your front end, that's like your front-end code.

10:52 So you just like open up cloud code in the terminal and you talk cloud code.

10:56 It makes the local files for you.

10:58 You push it onto GitHub.

10:59 GitHub is literally like a Google drive for your code and it's

11:02 basically all you need to like build like build a startup a software.

11:05 It just like those four things and it's like it seems complex at first

11:09 but like it's not really like it's pretty easy if you get into it.

11:12 So like you can skip all like the replets of the world, lovables of the world.

11:15 You can kind of like skip all that and go straight into cloud code.

11:19 Okay.

11:19 So superbase for the database,

11:22 Verscell for the hosting, GitHub for hosting your code,

11:25 the terminal app on your computer for actually making the code.

11:29 What is the AI tool that you're using to actually like vibe code it?

11:33 Is it cloud code?

11:34 Yeah, I'm using cloud code and also

11:36 for example like I'm using cloud code max subscription.

11:39 So I'm paying 200 bucks a month.

11:40 And also for you guys that do not know, I just realized this.

11:43 So when I first got cloud uh cloud code,

11:45 if you buy it on the mobile app, it's 250 bucks.

11:48 I don't know why, but then if you buy it in the web app, it's 200 bucks.

11:51 So, make sure to buy it on the web app.

11:54 So, yeah, I use cloud pro and also whenever my cloud code subscription runs out,

11:58 I have a second codeex plan.

12:00 Codeex is basically open AI's coding.

12:02 Like how there's claude, there's cloud code for coding and then there's

12:07 open GBT and then there's codeex for coding.

12:09 Yeah, it's 250 on mobile app because they have to give like 20% to Apple.

12:13 Yeah.

12:14 Yeah.

12:14 Yeah.

12:14 I forgot about that.

12:15 Apple Apple takes a chunk out of that.

12:17 Have you been a clipper in the past?

12:19 Like what got you into this world?

12:21 Yeah.

12:21 So, basically when I started doing this, like a bunch

12:24 of people started reaching out to me from like the clipping space,

12:26 like well-known names, like like do you have clipping experience?

12:29 Like I never clipped.

12:30 I was never a clipper.

12:31 I never did I never did anything

12:33 of that before I started building software at all.

12:35 I literally just like like researched.

12:36 I'm like, "Okay, I want like I want to build the actual legit

12:40 software that is going to be viable and can actually scale in the future.

12:43 The future is going to be short from concept.

12:44 Future going to be clipping.

12:45 Everybody's going to need like that." So why not

12:47 why not me instead of building a simple like walking

12:50 app or calorie tracking app or like some simple IO

12:53 iOS apps what if I just build a legit complex

12:55 like almost like it's not an enterprise like software

12:58 but like a legit software web application that like I

13:01 can just scale and will actually be like viable

13:03 and like it's going to be like relevant in the future.

13:06 So you saw clipping as a tidal wave and you

13:08 said I'm going to hop on this tidal wave.

13:10 I'll have an easier chance of success.

13:12 Yeah.

13:12 Right.

13:12 This is here to stay.

13:14 Now what about opus?

13:15 Right.

13:15 Like is that the biggest clipping app in the space?

13:18 Mhm.

13:18 Do you even like look at them or are you just

13:21 thinking like this market's so big not everyone's going to use it?

13:23 There's room for everyone.

13:24 How do you look at at them?

13:25 Yeah.

13:26 So the way I look at it obviously so I like I tested out

13:28 all my competitors first of all like before I started building my software I

13:31 tested all my competitors and I started like deep analyzing with myself and AI

13:35 cuz like if you don't know your AI can actually go and like do things.

13:39 For example, I use a tool called Hermes agent.

13:42 Essentially, it's open claw but on steroids.

13:45 And there's a thing called Chrome Dev Tools MCP

13:48 where it can literally go and open tabs for you, take screenshots and analyze.

13:53 So my Hermes agent, my my like you say Jarvis.

13:57 So my Hermes agent would go analyze, take screenshots,

14:00 click through buttons while on my MacBook Pro,

14:02 I would also be researching and analyzing uh these competitors.

14:05 And one thing I realized is first of all like they're

14:08 like I re I also I went through like the customer reviews.

14:11 So like one thing is they're it's too expensive.

14:14 The clipping process takes too long.

14:15 Opus clip also it clips the same clips at the same time.

14:19 Like if you post a podcast opus clip since

14:21 they have a a good it's like a clipping logic.

14:24 Like for example if you clip a minute and 5 seconds of a video in one

14:28 clip it can have that clip and then in clip two it can have the same clip.

14:31 It can be like a minute five and it jumps to a minute 10 and a minute 20.

14:35 I don't make it separate like it reuses the same clip moments in multiple clips.

14:39 So you're spending credits basically getting the same exact clip.

14:42 You're not going to repurpose that same clip over time because all

14:44 these algos look at your content and see if it's the same content.

14:47 They're not going to at all.

14:49 So I like I deep analyze all

14:51 my competitors seeing like okay they're not a genensic

14:54 all like the user is saying XYZ I can improve in this this this way.

14:58 So let me start building and if I can make

15:00 my product 10% better than theirs and heck like the market

15:03 share is so big why can why can't I not

15:05 just take a piece of it as well you know?

15:07 So I had that mindset as well like you said.

15:10 So how long did it take you to go from, you know,

15:13 your first prompt in lovable when you first had this idea

15:16 and you started building it to your first dollar in the bank account?

15:19 First dollar in my bank account.

15:21 I think it was in the beginning of February.

15:24 I think it was like February 2.

15:26 I got like my first like Stripe notification.

15:28 And by the way, like my product I did not market it anywhere.

15:31 I was just building in public on on Twitter and I saw like

15:34 I saw someone bought like the creator plan and mind you my product probably

15:38 sucked back then like it probably was horrible but someone still paid for it

15:42 and used it you know so like I remember so yeah February 2nd I

15:45 think that's when I got my first like notification and first sale and when

15:49 did you first start prompting it in lovable first start prompting in lovable

15:53 it was October November so you spent like a few months kind of tinkering

15:57 with it learning the hard way and then first dollar in on February 2nd.

16:02 Yeah.

16:02 And then March, your first full month, you did 5,000 in revenue.

16:07 Yep.

16:08 5,000 in revenue.

16:09 And how much of that was profit?

16:12 85 80% profit margins.

16:13 That's amazing.

16:14 Are you using AI credits on the on the back end when they generate videos?

16:18 Is that part of your cost or no?

16:20 Yeah.

16:21 So, there's a whole system with like the face analyzing,

16:23 transcript analyzing, looking at the emotion of the speakers, where they're at.

16:27 like everything's basically on API credits and yeah I'm basically outsourcing

16:31 and like when I'm pricing my packages I'm making sure hey like if

16:35 I package it in this amount of price this amount of credits

16:37 like ideally you want 70 to 80% profit margins in the SAS world.

16:42 Yeah.

16:43 And are you using claude API on the back end like for generating these videos?

16:48 No, I'm not using cloud.

16:49 I'm using Gemini API.

16:50 That's like that's the most effective because like Gemini does a good

16:54 job at reasoning and also Gemini also has a VLM which

16:58 is is basically so you have LLM it's a like a language

17:01 learning model then you have VLMs which is a visual learning model.

17:04 So not only can the AI like look at the transcription and analyze

17:08 which parts of parts of the clips which part of the video will

17:12 be good clips but can also look at the video itself and dissect

17:15 okay who's the speaker where they at like what are they talking about?

17:19 Oh, it's a podcast.

17:19 Oh, this is a Oh, this is like a stream.

17:21 This is like a gaming thing and stuff like that.

17:24 Okay.

17:24 Now, how have you used OpenClaw throughout

17:27 the process of building andor marketing this business?

17:29 So, I started using OpalClaw, I think a few months.

17:32 Yeah, I think like two months ago, three months ago,

17:35 I started using Oplaw when it became viral.

17:36 And the way I got my first like 400 like before I had like a free plan,

17:39 which like as a boost company, I was getting burned through credits

17:42 cuz people were making multiple free accounts.

17:44 But the way I got like my first 450 plus users,

17:46 even though like a bunch of them were free,

17:48 but I got so much feedback from them was through Reddit marketing.

17:51 So essentially back when I used OpenClaw,

17:54 I switched from it, but we'll get back into that later.

17:56 My OpenClaw, I made like a a marketing agent.

17:58 Essentially, it would go on subreddits, it would go on LinkedIn,

18:01 it would go on X on Twitter,

18:03 it would see where people were talking about what's the best clipping tool,

18:06 what's the best AI video tool,

18:07 and I gave it a bunch of these specific uh keywords tailored to my SAS.

18:11 So hey, look for like users complaining about clipping.

18:13 look for users complaining about Opus Clip

18:15 because even Opus Clip back in the day

18:18 they had like a 48 hour outage and in that moment I told my market

18:21 hey go like give me a list like bullet bullet bullet their usernames the post

18:25 where they're complaining so I can go and shoot them a DM hey I'm building

18:29 a clipping tool I would love for you to try for free so that's how

18:32 I got my first 450 like free users on my software and got a bunch

18:36 of feedback on things to improve on to remove

18:39 simplify and stuff like that with open

18:41 claw so how many total users do you they have today both free and paid.

18:45 I switched from there's no free plan anymore.

18:47 So just a paid plan.

18:49 Okay.

18:49 And right now we have like 267 paying users right now.

18:52 So you got you had a pretty easy time getting unpaid

18:56 users with your OpenClaw agent just by posting or commenting on Reddit,

19:00 but then your paid users mostly came from X.

19:02 Is that right?

19:03 Yeah.

19:03 Cuz one thing I noticed is like I was

19:05 giving way too much free value on the free plan.

19:08 Like I was cuz not only is it's not clipping, it's also scheduling.

19:11 Like you can like schedule, it's like a whole social media scheduler as well.

19:15 Unlike these like clipping tools, they focus on clipping and stuff.

19:18 Like you can clip and schedule natively all in one ecosystem.

19:21 So like these people will lally make free accounts

19:24 clip schedule and then they make another free account,

19:26 another free account, another free account.

19:27 I'd get burned through a bunch of credits and like I'm like, okay,

19:30 the way the way I can filter this is let me

19:33 just make a simple $9 a month instead of the free plan.

19:36 I'll do a $9 a month plan and that will filter just the people just to test

19:40 it out and the actual real users

19:42 that actually want the product and want the software

19:44 and and mind you when I had the free plan my revenue like I was not

19:49 seeing any revenue at all like maybe just like one sale in like like a couple

19:53 weeks or something and then in March in March I think like the end of February

19:56 that's when I like I made okay I made the decision I'm not going to have

19:59 any free plans I'm going to make like the $9 plan like minimum and that's going

20:02 to filter people and I'm actually going to see

20:04 if people actually want to use my software.

20:06 And right when I did the $9 month plan, people just started buying it.

20:09 I'm like, "Oh, wow." So, like, it was a good filter.

20:12 Like, it was a good move in the end of my day.

20:14 Did you know you can build a six-figure

20:16 business with only a 10,000 person email list?

20:18 I just talked to the founder of Beehive,

20:21 and he told me that there are people with 10 to 15,000

20:25 subscribers making more than newsletters that are 10 times that size.

20:29 Here's how.

20:30 Well, this one designed newsletter with around

20:32 15,000 subs doesn't just sell ads.

20:35 They run two-week online cohorts four times a year that generate six figures.

20:39 And on top of that, they're charging companies 20

20:42 to $30,000 to get in front of their audience.

20:45 And that's on one small focus list.

20:47 This is not about going viral anymore.

20:49 It's about owning a niche and monetizing it correctly.

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21:31 That's behiv.com/chris.

21:32 Do you have any numbers as to what percentage

21:35 of people upgraded from freeto paid versus just bounced?

21:38 That's the one thing I had a mistake on.

21:40 So there's thing called post hog which is it can look

21:44 at your whole entire website and like your analytics and stuff.

21:46 I did not have proper conversion and data set up from the beginning.

21:50 So I I can't really tell you like I can probably go

21:53 in my Stripe and have my AI analyze all like the Stripe IDs

21:56 and the users and see which users upgrade from the starter plan

21:59 to the creator plan and then from maybe from the creator to the agency plan.

22:02 I could probably look at that right now.

22:04 From the beginning I didn't have that set up but I have it set up now.

22:08 Now I set it up yesterday with post like analytics

22:10 but I didn't have proper like data like I didn't have

22:13 onboarding I didn't have offboarding like I didn't have any

22:15 of that which like looking at this now from like a marketer's

22:18 perspective like what like what what was I doing you

22:21 know I mean it's like that's the alternative to not starting

22:25 oftentimes people check all those boxes and then they all

22:27 that friction causes them to never launch in the first place.

22:30 So that's usually how I do it too.

22:31 Like I'm so anxious to get revenue in the door,

22:33 I don't set up all the necessary tracking things.

22:35 But in the end, it doesn't really make that big of a difference.

22:38 You know, like a year from now, you're not going to care about that.

22:41 Sure.

22:41 It's all about learning process.

22:42 Yeah.

22:43 But would you say that you were surprised

22:45 by what percentage of people actually upgraded to paid?

22:48 Yeah, I was actually really surprised because like my competitor skill,

22:51 they're they have a free plan.

22:53 I'm like, why not just like why not me make a free plan?

22:56 I'll see if if like people are going to go

22:58 to me and like no one was buying at all.

23:00 Like what the heck?

23:00 So I'm like, "Okay, let me just make

23:02 a free plan and let's see if there's a demand,

23:04 if like people actually want the tool, started marketing it more,

23:07 started talking about it more on Twitter, and people started funneling in.

23:10 And then I started getting more emails, more feedback,

23:12 things that they like and didn't like, what to improve on, what to add,

23:15 and stuff like that." Sorry,

23:16 did you say that Opus did or didn't have a free plan?

23:19 They have a free plan.

23:20 Yeah, that's interesting.

23:21 I would have thought that they that they didn't cuz

23:23 clearly your data has showed that it's not a good idea.

23:26 Yeah.

23:27 The thing with Opus, they raised $50 million.

23:29 By the way, and like if you look at their ads, their marketing,

23:32 it just they're just burning money just to get big names like Mr.

23:35 Beast or I Shall Speed just to use their products.

23:37 If you look at their pages,

23:38 it's just like well-known podcasters around the world.

23:40 So, I'm like, why not like I can

23:42 like literally niche down and go after smaller podcasters,

23:46 entrepreneurs, affiliate marketers, whoever it might be that need clipping.

23:49 I can niche down and take a big like

23:51 big chunk of the market share as well that way.

23:54 Have you thought of building an OpenClaw agent that will go to[ __]

23:57 and start DMing Clippers just like spamming them links to your thing,

24:01 giving them free credits or whatnot?

24:03 No, I didn't think of that.

24:04 But what I did think is so uh Daniel Bit Bitsson,

24:07 he's a founder of Content Rewards.

24:09 He was like a clipper back in the day,

24:11 YouTube shorts guy, pretty successful young lad.

24:13 And he's like, "Yeah, Daniel Bitsen, Bi T- O,

24:16 and he's the founder of Con Rewards." And I have

24:20 an idea and I messaged them on uh Twitter and on messages.

24:24 Essentially, I want to build out a genic clipper where like

24:26 the future of clipping is not going to be like human clippers.

24:29 It's literally going to be agent clippers clipping for you.

24:32 Okay?

24:33 Like think about it.

24:34 They can go take your video so they can go analyze on WO what campaign it is,

24:38 find that video on YouTube, copy the link, paste it into Vola, clip it,

24:42 they download the clips,

24:44 they add the trending sounds that the B-rolls, everything.

24:46 And then they submit it on their like

24:48 social media platforms because they can schedule as well.

24:50 And then the way clipping works, you take whatever you schedule on social media.

24:54 You take that like Instagram link,

24:56 Tik Tok post link and then you just submit it on content rewards.

24:59 You submit it on W.

25:00 And that's how they start tracking you for your views and giving

25:03 you like a CPM which they pay you like 10 cents,

25:06 30 cents or whatever, like a dollar per thousand views.

25:08 And like I thought about hey like why not like Conwords build out like a API

25:12 key or like why build out like a API key and just build it for agents.

25:15 So like I'm I'm in the talks with them.

25:17 So like we'll see where the future leads.

25:19 But that's where I think where clipping will be like fully agentic.

25:22 Yeah.

25:22 I'm thinking of these patterns like 20 years ago in the early to mid 2000s,

25:26 you know, the smart thing to do

25:28 was to build your business internet first, right?

25:30 Like if you're starting a business,

25:32 it doesn't necessarily have to be an internet business,

25:35 but it needs to be optimized for the internet.

25:37 And then 5 years later, mobile became everything, right?

25:40 Facebook launched in' 04 and then Instagram a few

25:44 years later and then the iPhone in' 07.

25:46 And so everyone was saying like your business has to be mobile

25:50 first and Instagram was really unique cuz it was the first social

25:53 media app to be mobile first whereas Facebook was web first and then

25:57 they made an app later because there weren't even apps in' 04.

26:00 So it was mobile first for a while and now like

26:03 3 years ago it's like your business has to be AI first.

26:06 Like AI like it can be a normal business but you have to lead with AI.

26:10 And now it feels like today in the next 5 years it needs to be agentic first.

26:14 And it seems like that's what you're doing.

26:16 Like you're building the framework for your business to be agentic

26:19 first because eventually like agents are going to be buying these apps

26:23 and a human will record a podcast and then an agent

26:26 will just pick it up and take it from there, right?

26:28 Agents will be doing all kinds of tasks.

26:29 They're going to have our credit card info.

26:31 They're going to go buy things for us because they know we need it.

26:33 Like that's what the future looks like and that's how

26:36 businesses need to build their foundation to be agentic first.

26:39 100%.

26:39 And like and if like if you're a viewer watching this podcast

26:43 right now like if you're building your startup or software whatever

26:46 it might be start tailoring it and thinking okay how can

26:49 I build it out for agents cuz literally the future is agentic

26:52 workflows and like enterprise companies literally like your agent is going

26:56 to go download my agent skill like for example people are saying

27:00 a software is going to be dead because like cloud code

27:03 can build you anything and you don't need to buy any subscription.

27:05 Well, no.

27:06 If if I have an agent that knows clipping,

27:08 but then it sucks at scheduling, instead of building my own scheduling tool,

27:11 why not like I just outsource and grab a API key

27:14 and get like this scheduling skill and hook it up to my agent.

27:18 So now my agent can clip and then schedule.

27:20 I love it.

27:21 What are you building or playing around with on OpenClaw

27:25 today that people can learn from and and copy?

27:28 Yeah.

27:28 So I actually switched from OpenClaw, spoiler alert.

27:32 So I switched from openclaw to Hermes agent essentially.

27:35 So open claw is like the one thing about openclaw I had a big

27:39 problem with I don't know if you experienced this as well but the memory

27:42 and like the self-learning loop on openclaw it was just not like I found myself

27:47 repeating to openclaw time and time again

27:49 that like hey you're forgetting this you're not

27:51 doing this it had contradicting memory and then a thing called hermes agent came

27:55 out essentially it's like opencloud it's a genensic

27:57 tool where you plug in like cloud

27:59 code or you plug in open like codeex your subscription to it and it can

28:03 do things with it and Hermes agent has like 40 like 40 plus built-in skills.

28:07 They have a built-in self-memory system.

28:09 So on Opal Cloud, you have to build out

28:11 this memory system by yourself, which I had to do.

28:14 But Hermes agent has everything built in natively

28:16 already within like within when you install it, it's already built in.

28:20 So I switched from open call to Hermes agent and so far it's been incredible.

28:23 So like I have like a a Hermes like CEO agent, I have a brain rot agent,

28:28 I have a marketing agent, a growth agent,

28:30 and a specific coding agent all tailored for VGOLA.

28:33 So that's like basically the whole entire

28:34 company and team you could say behind Vola.

28:36 Wow.

28:37 If you were to hire a human to replace

28:39 everything that your agent is doing for you.

28:42 Mhm.

28:42 Would that be a full-time job?

28:44 Would that be two humans?

28:45 Three part-time job?

28:45 What do you think it would take?

28:47 Oh my goodness.

28:48 I don't even know.

28:49 I'm spending about like I don't know how much tokens worth of like

28:53 cloud code tokens and codex tokens I'm spending just on coding itself.

28:56 And then like I have a customer support agent literally setting up post hawk

29:00 like post hawk analytics viewing a bunch

29:02 of metrics having chron jobs in real time.

29:05 Like this is easily like a 50 60k 70k a year

29:08 job just for like one department of bugola like moderating fulltime.

29:12 And I have agents doing this for me all for like 200

29:15 bucks a month 400 bucks a month like everything for my own behalf.

29:19 And like I'm the CEO and I just tell them

29:21 what to do and they do it for me you know.

29:24 Man, my mind is blown right now cuz I'm thinking

29:26 of just like all these venture capitalists in Silicon Valley.

29:29 Like they're not going to have projects to give money to.

29:32 No.

29:32 Because what you're doing is something that like a similar startup in Silicon

29:36 Valley would need to raise 1 to 7 million bucks for, right?

29:40 And hire that 50 to 100k person over and over.

29:43 Like two marketing people, an admin person,

29:45 like you're spending hundreds of dollars a month on agents doing the same thing.

29:50 Like you would not be profitable today.

29:52 Period.

29:52 end of story if it weren't for these agents, right?

29:55 Because five grand a month ain't going to pay all those bills 100%.

29:59 And the thing also like so if if you don't

30:01 understand how Cloud Code works for if you're a user,

30:04 so essentially when you buy the $200 a month plan,

30:07 they're giving you like $15,000 worth of actual credits and tokens.

30:10 And if I'm spending that all the time and then

30:14 I go to Codeex and another Codeex $200 plan,

30:16 that's another like $15,000 worth of coding and like token usage and credits.

30:21 So essentially these like these companies because not everybody

30:24 hits their usage limits and weekly limits every single week.

30:26 Only for me I'm maxing that thing out every day.

30:29 Like I kind of have this like anxiety almost that if I don't

30:32 maximize my my token usage every week every day I'm losing money you know.

30:37 So like if you're like if you're on cloud co if you're on CEX maximize

30:42 your output like you're supposed to be like

30:44 hitting your limits every single week you know.

30:47 So, cuz like you're literally spending like 30 45 $50,000

30:50 worth of credits for like 400 600 bucks a month.

30:54 Oh my gosh.

30:55 All right.

30:56 Hermes agent, that's a huge find.

30:58 What other tools are in your tool belt that people have to use?

31:02 Like yesterday, I literally was researching with my Hermes

31:04 agent and like he literally like talked to me like,

31:07 "Hey, you don't have any like analytics set up, nothing.

31:09 So like for your software, you want to set up like not sponsored,

31:12 nothing like it's called Post Hog.

31:13 It's actually really good.

31:14 Essentially, Post Hog can literally go on your software

31:17 and it can see where users are clicking,

31:19 how long they're on a page for, what they're going to, like

31:23 the whole entire user journey and then you can build out post hog called

31:27 events where essentially it's like your whole onboarding flow or for me like

31:30 the first user they sign up then it tracks for their first clip,

31:33 their first download, their first post, the first caption and literally tracks

31:37 every single user's journey seeing okay here

31:40 they cancelled their their subscription here they got more credits here they got

31:44 this that XYZ and it's basically like a whole entire like analytical tool

31:49 that you can like fully deep dive and have your agent just running for you.

31:53 So like I got post I'm on a free plan also by the way

31:56 I don't know how like I don't know why I would need a paid plan.

31:59 How are they making money?

32:00 That's what I'm saying.

32:01 Like maybe there's like a limit I'm going to reach or something.

32:03 I don't know.

32:04 I literally got a free plan.

32:05 Put the code like I just told my agent,

32:07 hey like put this code embed it in my software.

32:10 I grabbed the API key, gave it to him like, "Okay,

32:14 start setting all these analytic tracks." And the thing with like

32:16 if you don't know what to do for your software,

32:18 the beauty of AI, it's supposed to help you and brainstorm with you, you know?

32:23 So, like I couldn't come up with all like the post hog

32:26 events like it literally like went down like a step by step.

32:28 Hey, you need to track this, you need to track

32:30 that, you need to track this, boom, boom, boom.

32:31 And like I was brainstorming with Hermes and then I'm like, "Okay,

32:34 go go go build it out." And it started building it out for me.

32:37 And the thing with Hermes agent as well like I don't know if like I wish

32:40 I could like I could share my screen right now here but you can also see

32:43 in like Telegram what it's working on what

32:46 tools what MCP servers it's calling so you

32:49 can track it whole entire like analyt like

32:51 it whole journey and it's coding thing as well

32:53 in real time unlike for openclaw you would

32:55 tell it hey do like build me this thing and it would just like go quiet and then

33:00 just spit spit something back out to you

33:02 couldn't really know what it was doing what it was working on maybe like it took

33:05 the prompt the wrong way or It's funny

33:07 because it reminds me of like my hiring process.

33:09 The the key question that I ask all my potential

33:12 employees is how well do you work in ambiguity?

33:14 And it sounds like OpenCloud does not work great in ambiguity, right?

33:19 It needs more handholding,

33:20 whereas Hermes Hermes agent like it's just accountable.

33:23 It's it has autonomy.

33:25 It just goes and does things.

33:27 Mhm.

33:27 Guys, I hate to break it to you,

33:29 but you're not very likely to actually start a business

33:31 based on something you see or hear on this podcast,

33:34 unless you spend a little more time with me

33:36 and with other people that are doing just that.

33:39 So, come check out TK Owners.

33:41 That's tkowners.com where hundreds of people are launching, starting, testing,

33:45 experimenting with business ideas that they heard from this podcast.

33:48 If you want to go fast, go alone.

33:50 If you want to go far, go together.

33:52 Check out tkowners.com.

33:53 We'd love to have you.

33:54 And also another thing, so uh do you know what paperclipip is?

33:57 Have you heard of the paperclipip?

33:59 It's like a new AI, uh Google that built out.

34:02 It's basically I can't keep up, man.

34:04 Twitter is something new every single day,

34:06 but essentially there's a thing I know there's a thing called paperclipip.

34:09 It's a open- source GitHub project and essentially

34:12 it's a whole like AI orchestration structure for you.

34:15 So essentially it's like you have a CEO agent

34:18 and then it can break down into like your CMO,

34:22 your CTO and then those agents can have agent agents

34:26 and essentially like it's it's literally a a gentic AI company.

34:30 So like you can literally hire a CEO, tell it, hey, hire me this kind of agent.

34:35 You tell it your goals, you tell it your to-do list,

34:37 you make issues and essentially it literally

34:39 works for you around the clock 24/7.

34:41 And the thing with uh paperclipip uh so

34:43 the founder of paperclipip went on a podcast

34:46 and talked about a maximizer skill and in my Hermes agent you want to tell

34:50 your agents if you're using Hermes open call whatever it might be is you want

34:53 to build it build it out so like hey if I give you a task

34:57 make sure you go and fix it and do it no matter what cuz

35:00 like if agents they have access to like click on your web they can like

35:04 with Chrome dev tools MCP servers they

35:06 can go click on tools they take screenshots

35:08 they can like if you give it like your login password make like a dummy account.

35:12 So, it can log into Instagram, it can log into Tik Tok, it can log into Google,

35:16 and like I built out a native like custom skill where like, hey,

35:19 if I give you a task, you work on it no matter what,

35:21 you do not bug me at all until

35:23 you like figure it out and you literally self-improve.

35:26 If you run into any work blocks,

35:28 if you if you work if you go into like a unknown arrow page,

35:31 you yourself figure it out and only like tag me and like

35:35 message me back if you only need my help like 100%.

35:38 And the thing with armies, it literally figures out and clicks on stuff.

35:42 It sends me screenshots proactively now because like I give it

35:45 a task and it runs for me until it literally finishes it.

35:47 So if you have like agents,

35:49 I would I would like advise you guys set that up as well that like give them

35:53 the access they need and just let them run

35:55 and only ping you when that task is actually done.

35:57 I call it the let let them cook prompt.

35:59 Keep cooking.

36:00 What other like killer prompts like that would you suggest or or hacks

36:05 or tools to get your agent and or LLM to run better or more efficiently?

36:09 So another good thing is like the term is called reverse prompting.

36:12 Essentially as like when you're setting up your open claw or for example

36:16 now my Hermes agent you want it to ask you questions back.

36:20 So, for example, like you long as you talk with it like you want to tell

36:25 your goals and also like be super specific with AI like if you're a vibe coder,

36:29 you know coding expense like me like like once I learn

36:32 this like quote and like embed it into your whole entire workflow.

36:35 If AI gives you a wrong prompt, a wrong build, a wrong UI design, whatever,

36:39 if the AI gives you something that's not your expectation,

36:41 it's a skill issue on you.

36:43 It's a you problem.

36:44 Like whether you like it or not, the AI can only do so much on what you tell it.

36:50 like on context and prompt engineering like think

36:52 about AI like we like we might have

36:54 a like I had a wrong impression of AI that AI is so grand it knows

36:57 everything about me like it doesn't know everything

36:59 about me if I didn't tell it stuff it's not going to go on the web

37:02 and like search everything and like know my personal

37:04 goals my ambitious even if it did go on the web it it doesn't know

37:08 your insecurities your thoughts your mind your history

37:10 background a conversation you had offline like it doesn't

37:12 know any of that yeah and that's what I'm saying so like once I found this out

37:16 like hey like be super specific about

37:18 the context for prompt engineering like for example if

37:21 you look at like one like this is a good like side note like if like

37:23 if you go on a website and you like a designed website and you want to implement

37:27 it for your startup literally pull up

37:29 a notes tab on the sidebar of your computer

37:31 and start writing like in description not

37:33 your AI but like for yourself and a dog

37:35 like I like this navbar I like this header I like this prompt and you want

37:38 to take screenshots of it cuz your AI

37:40 can also like look at screenshots don't forget that like you want to make a huge

37:44 note prompt of like things you like take screenshots

37:47 of the website give it to your agent

37:49 and now has so much more context rather saying,

37:51 "Hey, I like the website of xyz.com.

37:53 Copy it." Like, you have to be so much

37:56 more specific in how you prompt engineer your your AI.

37:59 Any other prompts or hacks that you can think of like that?

38:03 Ask your agent, hey, what tools and what API keys, what kind of MCP servers,

38:07 what do you what do you need so you can be fully autonomous?

38:11 Because like for example, like the I didn't know like ChromeDev tools

38:15 MCP essentially like I'll I'll talk about this again.

38:17 I did not know anything about it and like every time I was asking

38:21 my agent to go take screenshots of XYZ web or this website whatever it couldn't

38:25 and then I told okay how can we make you like do it how what

38:28 like what skills do you need what like go look on open says GitHub repos

38:32 look on Twitter go do whatever and then it told me okay there's a thing

38:37 called Chrome Chrome dev tools MCP where I can where you can allow it

38:41 on your Mac mini your MacBook and I can go open tabs for you I

38:44 can go do this for you so tell your agent Like to make it fully autonomous,

38:48 tell your agent, hey, what skills do you need?

38:51 What API keys do you need so I can help you so

38:54 we can improve our work like work relationship and like our workflow?

38:58 Yeah, I love that.

38:59 Any other tools that you would recommend?

39:01 We've got Hermes Agent, we've got Post Hog, we've got Paperclip.

39:04 Anything else that is just blowing your mind lately?

39:07 Honestly, as of the moment, that's about it.

39:10 Like I don't want to like over like complicate everything.

39:12 That's literally all you need to like build

39:14 like a good like startup business in today's world.

39:17 And literally like I have no coding experience.

39:19 I have nothing at all.

39:20 And I was able to quit like my like normal like high paying

39:23 like a marketing job and like build like a decent income for like

39:27 just the first month of me building like fully marketing my software and I

39:31 already made five grand in my first month just like that, you know?

39:34 So like it's like it's super like simple.

39:37 It's simple work but it's not easy work if that makes sense.

39:40 Like the time to build a business it's still like it's simple but obviously

39:44 success if success was easy everybody

39:46 would be successful obviously like there's like

39:49 to be entrepreneur it's still hard and you just have to go over

39:52 these roadblocks like when I was building

39:53 my software one little like last thing like

39:55 when I was building my software like I was running to Roblox like

39:59 the the face tracking the cropping like everything was like super off cuz like

40:02 a clipping software open raised 50 million to build theirs and who am I

40:07 to put my own you know and like I could have quit along the way,

40:10 but I'm like, "No, I'm going to put my head down.

40:12 I'm going to make this work.

40:13 I'm going to take the bet on myself and be a self motivator to actually be

40:16 successful." And now looking back now having like

40:18 a legit like startup company under my belt, it's like a fully Tom's AI agents.

40:23 Like my life like fully has changed in the span of like four or five months.

40:27 Dude, that's inspiring.

40:28 I'm inspired, man.

40:29 I'm 20 years older than you and like I didn't know half of these tools existed.

40:34 You're inspiring a lot of people.

40:36 Last question I'll ask you.

40:37 You obviously did a bunch of research in finding this clipping opportunity.

40:42 What tools or what methodologies, frameworks,

40:45 whatever can people use to find profitable, uncovered, undiscovered niches?

40:49 Mhm.

40:50 So, essentially, you want to like take a step

40:54 back and like really like for this like part, I didn't use any AI.

40:58 I didn't use like any uh like I literally

41:00 just like I came up with this D by myself.

41:02 Like like like you want to take

41:04 a step back and actually look into the marketplace.

41:06 Like I don't care if it takes you like a week or maybe like two weeks.

41:10 Like you actually want to do deep research by yourself.

41:13 Like you want to understand the market that you're going to go into.

41:16 You want to understand what your competitors are doing.

41:18 You want to understand where the future is headed.

41:20 Like in this podcast we're talking about how the future is agentic software

41:24 agentic workflows building skills and and and endpoints

41:28 web hosts for other agents.

41:29 And like now having that kind of info, you can start thinking, okay,

41:34 what can I build that every other company or every

41:36 like or maybe like one niche market will need.

41:39 So like maybe like automate like automated leads,

41:41 but like take it like take that automated leads.

41:44 How can I make automated leads agentic?

41:47 Okay, I can build a agent that literally goes and has like a cron job.

41:51 So itely runs every single day and it can go find me leads on my own behalf.

41:55 And then I take another step further.

41:57 It can go message those leads.

41:58 and go follow up with those leads.

42:00 So like you can think about a whole like a genic

42:02 workflow like you you connect one dot you think about it.

42:05 Oh, mind mapping.

42:05 This is a huge.

42:06 You want to go and using mind mapping tools and like build one point.

42:10 Okay, where does this lead to?

42:11 Goes here.

42:12 Okay, it goes into here.

42:13 And you want to mind map your whole entire research like

42:16 your entire research thing about whatever niche you want to go into.

42:19 And that's basically all I I'll say like it sounds cliche,

42:23 but literally like you want to you want to be the expert in your own field.

42:27 Like I know everything about clipping.

42:29 I know where what my competitors doing,

42:30 where they're lacking, what what they're not doing.

42:33 And like that's how I'm gonna take the edge

42:35 on all these like multi-million dollar companies and competitors on Vugola.

42:38 So whatever you're building,

42:39 you want to be the expert in it and literally use your own

42:42 creativity and mind mapping so you fully understand your whole entire market.

42:46 This is the original Disney like master plan from like 60 70 years ago.

42:51 Was this a mind map essentially?

42:54 Yeah, essentially that that's like like the thing about this mind map

42:56 like I bet you when Walt Disney was doing this, he probably first

43:00 started with just like the maybe just the music or maybe just

43:03 the TV like sector and he kept building on to it over time.

43:06 Yeah.

43:06 And he just like started building and strategizing those mind.

43:09 Okay, I should like this connects here,

43:11 this connects here and like you strategize on your own

43:13 and research on your own behalf, you know?

43:16 Yeah.

43:16 Are there any mind mapping tools that you would recommend?

43:19 I think Miro Miro is a good one.

43:22 That's probably the best one I would use.

43:25 Oh, I've heard of this one.

43:26 Yes, this looks familiar.

43:28 Where can we find you?

43:29 Where can we find your app or you?

43:30 Yeah.

43:31 So, if you guys want to test my app,

43:32 it's still in beta stage right now and we're

43:34 like I'm obviously like making and polishing it out, like working on non-stop.

43:38 You can find bugai.com.

43:40 Basically, vuggai.com.

43:41 And then where you can find me on on social media.

43:46 So, I have I'm mainly on Twitter.

43:47 I built up my personal brand on Twitter to like

43:50 27,000 followers and then I started posting on Instagram.

43:53 So you can find me at Vadem and then uh under underscore and then stru.

43:59 So s t r i z h e s.

44:02 Okay, gotcha.

44:02 We will link to you there.

44:04 Well, Vim, this is amazing, inspiring.

44:07 Thank you for all your tools.

44:09 Speaking of mind map, my mind is blown right now.

44:12 Um, thanks for coming on, man.

44:13 Thank you, Chris, for having me.

44:15 All right, what' you think?

44:16 Please share it with a friend and we'll see you next time on the Kerner