Spider-Man Writer Breaks Down the Game's Opening

0:00 so yeah this sort of cold open mission was really meant to set

0:04 up the mr negative character and and the rest of the game

0:08 um he's a tough enemy isn't he why [Music] hi i'm michael

0:18 and welcome to story mode the channel where we explore the storytelling

0:21 power of video games today we are talking about the opening of marvel's

0:26 spider-man the 2018 game developed by insomniac games i'm joined by part

0:32 of the story mode team brian bittner hello and on the controller

0:36 is wyatt strain hi and we're excited to have john paquette here

0:42 with us today john is the narrative director at insomniac games

0:46 and was the story lead on spider-man as well as miles morales john

0:50 thank you for joining us it's great to be here good

0:52 to see y'all yeah so before we get started uh if you want

0:56 to see us play through the finale of spider-man we also did

1:00 that with jon and we discussed some of the unique challenges that come

1:03 with writing for video games so check out that video just click

1:06 the link that pops up in the top of the screen or head

1:09 to the link in the description below but so the opening

1:12 of spider-man so it's this game is super fun and i love it

1:15 i was thinking about actually how i first heard about it

1:18 and i happened to get coffee with a fellow youtuber uh charlie mcdonnell

1:24 and he was amongst other things saying like oh by the way

1:27 have you played the new spider-man game it's super fun but it's

1:31 also one of the best spider-man stories i've ever played really that's

1:35 cool yeah um and i was like okay that's a that's a high

1:40 high praise uh and so i went and i played it

1:42 and he was absolutely right it's it's so great and it's cool because

1:47 it's a it's a new spider-man you know it's not the peter

1:51 parker from the mcu films it's not a peter parker from spiderverse you

1:55 guys got to create a new peter parker story so i'm excited

2:00 to talk with you about all of that and what when it

2:04 went into it and the challenges and all that stuff so as we

2:08 start the game here um i'm thinking why don't you just start

2:11 with like this this first shot what did you want to signal

2:15 two players about what they were about to get into right well

2:18 i mean what we started with was the discussion of um hey

2:23 what kind of spider-man do we want to have right and pretty early

2:27 on we we decided we didn't want to do another origin story

2:31 uh we felt like um spider-man is a pretty well-known character we've

2:35 seen that that story a lot so we wanted to to start

2:38 with um spider-man after he's been spider-man for about eight years right um

2:44 so with this opening shot um which for anyone who's seen back

2:48 to the future um you you know uh what what this does

2:52 um we just wanted to get a lot of exposition across uh

2:55 very quickly um you know one of the the old writing rules is

2:58 show don't tell uh so we're showing a lot here um i

3:03 don't know if you noticed that his uh his laptop uh fund

3:07 was empty or no sorry his vacation fund was empty but his laptop

3:10 fund had a few coins in it so that kind of shows

3:12 you his uh his priorities there um right but uh you know

3:16 this is this is a peter parker who um you know he's

3:19 got a lot going on he's he's been uh doing

3:22 this for for a while um and in this first scene here he hears

3:27 about wilson fisk um potentially uh about to to leave town um

3:33 and so he wants to make sure that um he gets him

3:36 um before he does yeah and i also love that it starts

3:41 off with like a character choice happening of like you know he's about

3:45 to he's on his way out and then a notice comes that's

3:48 like you're gonna be evicted and you see him have this moment

3:51 of like do i choose spider-man or do i choose peter parker

3:54 right now and like starting it off with that choice is just gives

3:58 such a great signal yeah and you know it's it's super important

4:03 um you know that's one of the things that we we learned early

4:05 on um bill roseman who works at marvel he he told us

4:10 uh right from the get-go that the best spider-man stories are when um

4:14 peter's world and spider-man's world collide um and anyway anytime you

4:18 can get those those two worlds to come together um is great

4:23 um but the other thing i like about the opening is is

4:25 that um we start with peter right um like everybody's fantasy is

4:31 to to be spider-man to to have the superhero abilities and do

4:35 all the cool stuff um but we show him asleep in bed just

4:39 like us right we show him uh uh get get woken up

4:43 and and uh you know he's got to put on his old suit

4:46 which stinks so he sweats and he's got to do laundry just

4:50 like us um and and he's got to eat right just like

4:53 us and i think that's that's something that we we recognized as we're

4:57 making this story is that um the more we can make uh

5:00 peter like us i think the the the more um connected um

5:06 our audience and players will be to um spider-man right and i

5:12 think that also helps for for you know old people like me

5:16 who are like their spider-man traditionally is like the high school guy right

5:20 so but then it's like this is a guy who who had

5:22 like you said he's been doing this for a while he and mary

5:25 jane have had a relationship no longer do and that just makes

5:30 it interesting and it makes it feel a little more um you

5:33 know a little i don't know if ground is the right word

5:34 but just a little more maybe universal to to a wider variety

5:38 of players yeah and and me and um brian enter the creative

5:41 director um we talked a lot early on um about what we were

5:45 like when we were that age um when we had just finished

5:49 college and and we had all these plans for um how we

5:52 wanted to to you know have great careers and and uh um

5:57 how the world hadn't slapped us in the face yet um right um

6:03 so so there's still uh a lot of that sort of um

6:06 giddiness that that peter has um but it's not the the naivete

6:12 i guess that that young peter um typically has in in high

6:16 school right right he's a little bit more experienced yeah yeah i remember

6:23 being just really struck by that immediately of like oh like

6:27 an older spider-man is something that i have not seen before and like

6:31 you're saying brenda i was able to like connect with in a more

6:34 interesting not a more interesting way but just in a different way

6:37 as as a more of an adult person were there any um

6:41 specific like comics or anything that you drew from for this uh

6:44 for that version of peter or was it mostly just internal well

6:49 here's here's what we actually did um we tried to read as much

6:54 as we could we tried to watch as much as we could

6:57 and and we tried to um like devour anything spider-man right um

7:03 so that we could become experts and and what a good spider-man

7:07 story is um and then we tried to forget all that um because

7:11 our goal which and it was great because marvel said hey you

7:16 know we want insomniac's version of spider-man right um so we didn't

7:20 want to be too inspired by any of the great stories that had

7:23 that had come before so our goal was to to really get

7:27 a sense for okay what are the key ingredients to making it

7:30 a good spider-man experience um a good spider-man story um so so

7:36 we tried to distill that down from from reading all those comics

7:40 and and you know watching the movies and the tv shows and every

7:45 every like i said everything spider-man um and you know we we

7:49 got down to um there's there's i don't know probably about five

7:53 or so um key ingredients and the first one is what i

7:57 was saying earlier which is that um you know uh there's always

8:02 a conflict between peter and and spider-man right um and actually

8:08 the same holds true for miles right uh you know when when peter

8:14 and and like like you said michael we opened it open the game

8:17 with that choice that he had to make okay if i don't

8:20 pay my bills i'm probably gonna get evicted um but wilson fisk

8:25 is about to escape i gotta hurry up and go get him which

8:27 one am i gonna choose right um and it wasn't until working

8:31 on the game for a while that that we recognized that um there's

8:35 there's kind of a a rule uh that that happens whenever

8:39 a dilemma comes up uh for spider-man is if spider-man's gonna win something

8:44 peter has to lose and if peter's gonna win at something then

8:48 spider-man's gotta lose some some sacrifice has to take place there um

8:52 for the other character um and i i think that makes spider-man

8:58 a really compelling uh character for a lot of us um so

9:02 uh that was that was kind of like the the number one

9:04 rule um they're constantly at odds those those two identities um uh another

9:12 one was was something that bill roseman said early on um which

9:15 is a theme in a lot of great spider-man stories which is

9:18 science gone wrong um so in in this game um we we

9:24 spend a lot of time in otto octavius's lab um you know we

9:28 spend a lot of time actually with norman osborne learning about you

9:31 know devil's breath and and genetics and spoilers for those of you

9:35 who haven't gotten too far in the game um but uh

9:39 that that sort of theme and that world of of being a scientist um

9:44 is something that's core to peter's identity um and he's sort

9:48 of a a geek about it um but in a great way um

9:52 so we had to become geeks about it too like like um

9:56 we we hired some uh scientific experts uh to come in and help

10:01 us learn about brain machine interfaces and advanced prosthetics um you know

10:07 we we definitely did our research and made sure that all the science

10:10 in the game was was authentic um and and it made sense

10:14 in the real world um so so yeah science gone wrong is

10:18 is another big one um something you'll see here as he's uh

10:23 you know fighting a lot of these um enemies here he's he's

10:27 always got these quips right uh spider-man is is very quippy talky

10:31 sometimes too much um and but but it's a core part of who

10:37 he is and the way that i uh took that is

10:41 that he uses humor as a defense mechanism right like that's that's what

10:45 happens when he gets nervous um stressed uh you know he he

10:50 likes to make a joke um and i think there's actually a scene

10:53 a little bit later on in in the game where um you

10:56 know something goes wrong with with uh doc ock um with with you

11:01 know otto um one of the the experiments goes wrong and otto

11:04 gets really angry and he like throws something and curses norman uh

11:09 and and pete makes a joke and and otto like turns

11:13 and gives him a look and he's like uh i have a habit

11:15 of uh making jokes intense situations right um and and it's i

11:20 think it's something that um makes him endearing as a character at least

11:25 to me um because i think i'm i'm a little bit like

11:29 that as well um for anybody who knows me um i i try

11:34 not to get uh too serious in in what we do uh

11:38 so um yeah that's a that's a big one i'm trying to think

11:42 what what the other ones are i just also like that that gives

11:46 the the comedy and the quips a narrative purpose a narrative

11:48 function too right rather than just being like we got to make

11:51 it funny it's like no the character's actually doing that for a reason

11:53 exactly exactly and and the thing with the quips i mean it's

11:57 really hard um especially in in situations like this when when you're

12:01 in combat um because the player can play at whatever pace they

12:06 need to right um and it really can get annoying pretty quickly

12:11 if he's making too many jokes right um so one of the one

12:15 of the things we we recognize that the jokes that tend

12:19 to work best are the ones that are situational right so he's

12:23 not just quipping for the sense of throwing out a quip right he's

12:27 he's commenting on something that is happening to the player at that moment

12:32 so that the player is is immersed in the experience with them

12:37 um or with with pete um and they can they can get

12:40 the the sense of the joke at the same time um so

12:46 yeah and well and it's so great because it like you're saying

12:48 it brings the the spider-man-ness of the story into the gameplay also

12:54 like it's not just we're watching spider-man and pete be them

12:58 and the cut scenes it's while you're

13:00 fighting while you're controlling spider-man and doing

13:02 all these cool dodges that make you feel like you have spidey

13:05 sense and all that stuff the comedy is there too and so

13:08 just the tonal range that the story covers is great and i

13:12 love that you feel that in the combat also not just

13:16 in the cinematics or whatever yeah that's a that's a great um

13:20 phrase you just use tonal range because um it's something we learned

13:24 from the mcu movies is the the way that they um they'll have

13:30 these these fantastic uh sequences full of action um full of drama um

13:36 but then they'll work hard to make sure that that one you

13:39 know robert downey jr line happens at the right time to sort

13:43 of deflate the tension um get get the audience uh you know

13:47 back on track with the characters um and and so we we tried

13:51 to take the cue um from the marvel movies with pacing um

13:56 of of the humor and the drama um and make sure that we

14:01 don't make you tired you know it's easy to get tired especially

14:05 in an action game when when there's so much going on we want

14:08 to make sure that we have these peaks and valleys of uh

14:11 action drama um and and a little bit of downtime um

14:16 and so we kind of used uh otto's lab uh for that um

14:21 as as a way for the player to kind of take stock

14:24 and walk around as peter for a while and that was another

14:27 big aspect of um bringing this to a video game um that was

14:34 that was frankly a little challenging and and scary is that we

14:39 wanted to make sure that you had time as pete where you're not

14:43 doing the all the the gameplay right um and anytime you say

14:47 that to any game designer um or or even any game writer

14:51 uh game maker um they're gonna be like yeah but what are

14:54 you doing when you're walking around just pete and and so that we

15:00 we did a lot of um you know early prototypes and and talked

15:04 a lot about what the the player could be doing as pete

15:06 um and you know i'm i'm really proud of the work

15:09 that the team did to um make otto's lab and the feast center

15:15 feel like areas where the player could go uh and and get

15:19 a sense of what it's like to to be peter parker not

15:22 just spider-man you know and even the minigames and stuff being you

15:26 know science and photography and things like that or just like talking

15:31 with mj on the you know the phone while he's web swinging

15:35 from place to place like you you're always remembering that this is peter

15:38 parker and not just this like masked video game character running around

15:43 fighting people yeah yep yeah because when you know who the the person

15:48 is under the mask um it it adds meaning to every

15:51 punch and kick that you throw you know um and and that's

15:55 what we want to do we want to make sure that um

15:57 this this person that you're controlling you really feel like spider-man um

16:02 and and that's hard and it takes takes a lot of iteration

16:06 frankly yeah well and so what's really cool is how you know you're

16:11 mentioning uh doc ock's lab um and we'll try to you know

16:15 not spell too much but there are these kind of like different locations

16:19 that kind of set up these different uh subplots almost that are

16:23 going through the story and it is nice to be able to go

16:28 from crime fighting in the streets to spending time with this character

16:32 in this location or that character in that location and without spoiling

16:36 too much it's great how eventually all these threads like come together

16:39 but but yeah i'm curious for you guys like how did you

16:43 uh kind of arrive at what the the right balance was

16:46 of those different subplots or which which

16:49 characters are going to be included because

16:51 there's so many characters to draw from some were familiar with some

16:54 were not so what was that kind of decision making process like

16:58 um well we we did a lot of uh meetings and and we

17:05 talked about a lot of different story lines i'll give a lot

17:07 of credit to christos gage and and ben arfman um the other

17:11 two writers on the project um you know we wrote a lot

17:14 of stuff that that never made it into the game but but i

17:18 think the the way that we arrived at the the final product if

17:23 you will um is just by by trying a lot of things

17:26 out um seeing what worked um seeing what didn't work there's you

17:30 know there's one uh mission where um ben ben wrote this one

17:36 mission that i think he must have rewritten it like probably 10

17:40 15 times um just because the the game mechanics kept changing right

17:44 um and and that's to be expected but like that's how you

17:47 make a a great game is you put something in there you

17:49 try it um if it doesn't work you you try it again um

17:53 and uh and ben did an amazing job of of uh eventually

17:57 finding um uh the right thematic uh uh tone to hit that um

18:03 mission with um and uh you know we we just kind

18:07 of did that for for every mission throughout the game we we built

18:10 the mission we played it um we made changes we rewrote it

18:14 um and uh and yeah uh it's kind of like you know when

18:20 on a film you get to a rough cut uh and and then

18:24 you you realize that we've got all this stuff in here some

18:27 of this stuff works really well some of this stuff over here

18:30 doesn't work as well it feels like we're missing some stuff how

18:34 do we how do we kind of you know put all

18:36 this together into a more cohesive package um that's what alpha is like

18:43 on most games like when you when you get to alpha if

18:45 you're not familiar with game terminology like um alpha is is like

18:49 at least that insomniac it's like

18:51 coding content complete right like everything is

18:53 that we're gonna make is in the game there might be a lot

18:56 of bugs in there it might not be completely polished but you

18:59 can play through the game from beginning to end and get

19:01 a sense for how things are um similar to a rough cut

19:04 in a film and and so that's when films often times go going

19:09 for reshoots right um rewrites uh and i think i think marvel

19:15 studios they actually schedule in reshoots and rewrites for every film that they

19:20 do because they know that that this is gonna happen um when

19:23 you have these stories with so many characters um and and so many

19:28 arcs to to keep keep track of um that sometimes you're just

19:32 gonna end up with with things that i don't know don't don't

19:35 fit in the end right yeah any kind of creation process is

19:40 an iterative process and being able to have that time and put resources

19:46 into revision is so important i wish more movies did that because

19:50 clearly it pays off that's also the difference between movies and games

19:54 or movies you have to schedule a reshoot like if you didn't

19:57 get the shot you have to go get the shot and games you

19:59 can you know obviously it varies but you can just go

20:02 in and change the coding or change the you know whatever so get

20:06 a little more leeway there there's a little more leeway but but we're

20:08 learning i mean games as an art form is is still pretty

20:12 young we're we're learning how much time to give ourselves at the end

20:17 uh to to make sure that we have enough time to go

20:20 in and make the changes that we need to um you know

20:22 if we haven't always been successful in in planning that that time

20:26 and i think um you know what we did on this game

20:30 um depending on who you ask uh felt like we could used

20:33 a little bit more time but um it felt like we were

20:36 able to do a lot of the big things that we wanted

20:38 to do when we saw the game at alpha um and uh

20:43 we felt like it came together pretty well yeah no absolutely yeah well

20:48 and so another big part of like what you know a spider-man

20:52 story is at least the way i think about it is you know

20:56 peter's home like new york city like the place is such

20:59 a big part of the character and as we saw at the beginning

21:03 uh you know there's the brief cinematic but then peter jumps out

21:06 the window and you do a couple swings and then the player has

21:10 control and i remember that being like oh we're just going

21:13 for it okay game like that's pretty cool that just like a blends

21:16 of that smoothly and now it's like here is new york like

21:20 go forth um so yeah how much of the design of the city

21:26 you know played a part in how it connects to the narrative

21:29 and how did you guys kind of conceptualize all of that well

21:32 i think i think you're right that it is a big part

21:34 of the experience um and it's a big part of the fantasy

21:37 too right like when when you think spider-man you think new york

21:40 um and then most of us when we think about oh what

21:44 would i do if i was spider-man like one of the first

21:47 images that comes into our heads

21:48 is swinging between skyscrapers in manhattan right

21:51 like that's that's just that's what we think of and that's what

21:55 we think uh spider-man uh experience should be so um we wanted

22:00 to go a little bit further than that because we're going to be

22:03 spending so much time in in the city in this game we

22:06 wanted i i said early on it's got to be its own

22:09 character right like it's got to be a character that has an arc

22:12 throughout the course of the game um so just like any character

22:16 um it's it's got to have a a visual and and sort

22:20 of thematic change um from from beginning to the end of it

22:24 um so we actually structured uh the the narrative um so

22:29 that the city underwent like three big kind of changes visually um

22:35 and gameplay-wise um so that when you're swinging through the city it looks

22:39 and feels and sounds different than it did earlier in the game

22:42 or or later in the game um and and that was something

22:46 that it was really hard to do because essentially you're taking all

22:51 this work that that our tremendously talented our team uh does to to create

22:56 the city um and we're having to pile more work on top

22:59 of it to to make different versions of it so that um

23:02 it looks and feels different throughout the game but it's awesome it's

23:08 like so effective it's also such a you know most open world games

23:13 are learning that lesson now but 10 plus years ago it was

23:16 like oh you the world's ending you got to get to the other

23:18 side of town it's like okay and you go out and everything's

23:21 exactly the same as it was at the beginning of the game

23:22 and it doesn't feel like the world's ending until you get

23:24 to the next checkpoint and then suddenly it's like nighttime and it's thunder

23:28 you're like wait a minute but it wasn't you know yeah so

23:30 it's always nice when the open world feels like cohesive to the rest

23:35 of the story well yeah and and we wanted to make sure

23:37 that especially here at the beginning um that we had some time

23:41 to to relax and see the the city at peace right um

23:46 because we know we you know we want the story to escalate

23:50 um we want we want there to be higher stakes near

23:53 the end of the story but we also want the player to be

23:57 able to feel what it's like to be spider-man in a peaceful

24:00 manhattan for a little while sure um and and it's funny like after

24:05 we released the game i remember hearing from some fans how um

24:09 they didn't really even care much about the story they just kind

24:12 of wanted to swing through the streets you know and that was

24:15 like when after they had a long hard day at work they would

24:18 come home and and just swing around manhattan and it would be

24:20 nice and relaxing um you know a lot of props to uh

24:25 our our animation and engineering team um who who made swinging just

24:31 feels so good and that's not an easy thing to do um

24:36 but but they they worked really hard um through iteration to to make

24:41 that happen i feel like this is one of the few games

24:45 where like even though fast travel like can be an option i

24:48 would always be like oh i have to get to the other side

24:50 of the city that's fine i will swing the entire way over

24:54 and have fun the whole trip that's good because because we we

24:58 uh we throw in a lot of exposition on that swing so

25:01 uh if you fast traveled you might miss out on some context

25:04 and you might get to where you're going and be like wait

25:06 what am i doing here again uh yeah yeah that's not the problem

25:10 other games happen to have where you're if you're on the ground

25:12 level you gotta like get up to a building and then you can

25:14 have fun it's like you're just able to swing from everywhere

25:16 and run up buildings so it just it always feels just satisfying yeah

25:21 yeah and he moves really fast too like out in the city

25:25 um so there were a lot of times when we had to rewrite

25:28 conversations because the player would be able to get to the the start

25:32 of the next mission really quickly um and and we'd have

25:36 to just throw out whole conversations and and just like bam bam

25:39 bam quick get to the point um the player knew what was

25:43 what was happening right what's wrong i wanted to ask since where

25:46 since we're at fisk now what the choice was to have him

25:50 as as the first sort of big bad villain um because i

25:54 think the casual fans would know him more from daredevil or not

25:56 at all possibly uh yeah yeah um well that really started out

26:03 um because we wanted to um introduce a new villain martin lee mr

26:07 negative that not a lot of fans had had heard of um

26:11 but in order to kind of set the stage for that um what

26:15 we wanted to do was we wanted to have the first mission

26:17 be okay spider-man takes down his long-time nemesis um and now there's

26:22 a power vacuum in in the city right and that's something where

26:26 um a young uh uh upcoming criminal can can fill that power

26:31 vacuum um and it gives martin lee um an opportunity to to get

26:35 a foothold in the city um and his inner demons to kind

26:38 of become the the main uh villain and faction that you fight

26:43 uh throughout most of the game uh so so yeah this sort

26:48 of cold open mission um it was really meant to set up

26:53 uh the the mr negative character and and the rest of the game

26:57 um he's a tough enemy isn't he why oh i just went

27:00 down yeah wyatt explained yourself and credits it's a good way to introduce

27:07 people to yeah potential difficulty yeah um but yeah and and uh

27:14 and so we had we had a lot of fun um

27:16 on this mission travis willingham uh plays uh wilson fisk he's he's great

27:21 at voice actor um and you're longval of course uh being spider-man um

27:27 you know the working with with great actors um both

27:32 on the on the performance capture set and and in in uh the vo booth

27:37 um man they make everything so much better you know i think

27:41 that's something that um folks who who are as familiar with with making

27:46 games might not appreciate as much um as how the talents

27:51 of the voice actors and um the the the whatever magic it they

27:58 have when they bring that to the character it makes it come

28:01 alive uh so much more and it's a skill too like like

28:05 not all actors have the skill to to sit in a booth

28:10 and make you feel like that character is present um and yuri

28:16 is is one of the best um as a matter of fact

28:20 we would often write lines um and just say yuri make something up

28:25 and he would like make something up in the booth and that's

28:28 awesome and it would be better than than what we had written

28:30 um so uh it's it's a real privilege to be able to work

28:35 with him on this game i think it's one of those thankless

28:38 things where you notice when it doesn't sound right but you don't

28:42 notice when it does sound right because it just sounds so flawless

28:45 and and seamless that you're just like oh this this voice just

28:49 existed always just it just showed up when the game showed up yeah

28:53 and it's it's funny how you know we we will often like

28:58 just jump into a video session with yuri and it'll be so

29:02 easy and we'll we'll just kind of look at each other and be

29:04 like how did how does he do that like it makes everything

29:07 you know look he makes it look easy and it's not right

29:12 right well yeah and it i mean it there's so many things

29:15 that kind of elevate the the narrative but i feel like the performances

29:18 do you know help this story stand like on equal footing next

29:24 to the other spider-man stories in terms of just like production quality

29:28 even because it's you know a bad performance from a peter you

29:33 know even if it's a video game that's going to feel different

29:36 but this it has the dramatic weight of any spider-man story and obviously

29:42 a lot of that is because of the performances yeah

29:45 and and a lot of credit goes to chris zimmerman our our voice director

29:49 and to bobby connington our animation director um you know they worked

29:52 really hard with the actors on stage and on set to um

29:56 you know really get the the great performances um out of them

30:00 and and uh um yeah and if you talk to the actors

30:04 they have a great time uh playing these characters um it's fun

30:08 to to be spider-man and villains and so on and so forth right

30:15 i'm sure i was really worried for you therefore did you do

30:23 it holding any punches i think like the other thing that's great

30:29 about fisk is like you were saying he's he's positioned as spider-man's

30:36 like big nemesis that he's been going after this whole time and so

30:39 to start off the story with him getting captured also reinforces what

30:45 you were saying earlier about this is a new spider-man that's been

30:48 doing it for so long so rather than you know introducing a new

30:53 person that's going to be the the you know the main antagonist

30:56 this whole time we're going to start off with capturing the main

31:00 antagonist and it it creates that you know the satisfaction of you've

31:05 just completed something as spider-man but it also then for me

31:09 as a player left me with lots of questions about the narrative of like

31:13 okay well then where are we going here and so in in the best

31:16 possible way so i feel like it it just dovetails so

31:19 nicely with all the other things you set up like this is

31:22 a familiar spider-man at an unfamiliar age you're gonna you have your bearings

31:28 but you also don't know what's gonna happen next yeah and that goes

31:31 back to what i was saying earlier about how we wanted

31:33 to capture this moment at people's lives when they're just out of college

31:38 and and they feel like they can take on the world they

31:41 haven't been slapped in the face by life yet um and right

31:45 now at this moment where where um pete's sitting on that perch

31:49 he's just taking down fisk he's like i think i got

31:52 this this life covered like all my big nemesis are behind bars um i've

31:58 got this job with with dr octavius that oh[ __] i'm

32:01 late for but but gosh uh you know it's it's gonna be

32:05 a great thing that i can do to change the world as pete

32:08 right um and and he's he's got so much enthusiasm about um

32:14 this this next chapter in his life and i think that's

32:17 a great that we we tried to to start off the story

32:21 with with like a surge of positive energy um in his life

32:25 and uh um and then of course it just goes downhill from there right

32:30 but i also think that helps that sort of feeling of like

32:32 it's relaxing to to just swing around manhattan you give the player permission

32:37 to say like not everything the world is not always ending sometimes

32:42 you can just kind of hang out for a bit and and go

32:45 do some tasks and that feels very feels very comforting and and satisfying

32:49 to do and then you're ready when the next big thing

32:52 happens right yeah yeah and then like we had talked about it

32:56 it sets up that the total range that the story will explore where

33:00 you get to start with this like light-hearted you get to be

33:04 happy spider-man and as you said things things change from there yeah

33:09 well and and you know going back to the the dna

33:12 of a of a great spider-man story tragedy is also one of those big

33:16 pieces um you know he does use humor as a defense mechanism

33:20 but he's also you know at least in in the best stories

33:25 he's confronted by tragedy um where he's got to make these heart-wrenching

33:30 choices um and and we recognized that early on um and we wanted

33:35 to make sure that that was a part of our narrative yeah

33:39 well yeah speaking of heart-wrenching stay tuned yeah i think we should

33:43 go talk about the the finale of spider-man um but yeah thank

33:48 you john so much for joining us again viewer if you want

33:50 to hear the rest of our conversation and see us play through

33:54 the dramatic ending of spider-man click the link in the description uh yeah

33:59 john thank you so much for your time thanks for joining us

34:02 and we will see you in the next video let's do it [Music]