Dr. Orna’s Best Mic-Drop Moments 🤯 Couples Therapy

0:00 I want to be honest, but I also don't know.

0:03 So then I'm as honest as I can be, and then you're hurt.

0:07 But it is hurtful.

0:09 I know, but, like, I don't— like, I don't know.

0:11 So, like, if anything, I'm going to— That is the truth.

0:13 Yeah, like, literally, I don't know.

0:16 It is hurtful.

0:17 And listen.

0:19 So that's what's going on.

0:21 You want to be honest, which is brave.

0:24 Yeah, but it always fucks me over.

0:27 It doesn't fuck you over.

0:28 It means you have to bear the consequences.

0:31 I know.

0:33 It's like you want to be honest, but you can't stand what's coming back at you.

0:37 [AMBIENT MUSIC] How much of this kind of "maybe it's

0:45 time to separate," how much of that is true for you?

0:49 Do you feel like you're 100% behind that?

0:52 Yes.

0:53 Yes.

0:55 Yes.

0:57 And you?

1:00 Yeah.

1:03 I don't know what else to do.

1:07 Like, I don't know if there's any cure for it,

1:14 because I just feel like there's an—- It's not a disease.

1:16 Huh?

1:16 It's not a disease.

1:17 Wanting to separate or reaching an end of a relationship is not a disease.

1:21 But how do you know?

1:24 Like, are there telltale things that it's it?

1:27 Is it based on every couple?

1:29 Every couple's different?

1:30 How do you know if this is an end that needs

1:33 to happen as opposed to just running away from something?

1:37 Is that what you're asking?

1:38 I think he's asking, how do you know this— like,

1:41 whether these are signs of it being the end, kind of thing.

1:44 Is there any, like, textbook signs that we're showing, like,

1:48 yeah, maybe they should probably, like, throw in the towel?

1:50 You're asking me, do you look like a couple that's reached an end?

1:53 Or from what we've communicated to you, like, or do you just feel like we just

1:57 stopped trying and we're not even trying anymore?

1:59 I'd have to spend a lot more time with you to really answer that fully.

2:04 But it takes, first of all, a lot of love and want to change.

2:13 And you also have to want it enough

2:16 that you'd be willing to change something in yourself, something fundamental.

2:21 And that's a very difficult thing to do.

2:23 You have to really want the relationship and love

2:26 your partner in a way that moves you to transcend yourself.

2:35 You can't punch somebody in the face and then tell them you love them.

2:39 Who do I believe?

2:40 What's the punch?

2:40 The punch in the face?

2:42 Like, literally, you can't punch somebody in the face.

2:44 But what is the analogy?

2:45 The analogy is you can't do two different— But what was the punch?

2:49 The punch is you doing exactly what you're sorry about.

2:54 Meaning going to the funeral?

2:55 Or making those kinds of decisions.

2:58 Wait, Elaine.

3:00 Making me feel that way.

3:02 He's not making you feel this way.

3:05 He's not making you feel this way.

3:08 He's deciding to do something that he thinks is important.

3:12 Yeah.

3:14 That is not— that is not the equivalent of punching you in the face.

3:22 Perhaps the analogy is a little rough, but— It's not only a little rough.

3:26 It gives you a direct clue as to where these feelings come from.

3:35 That's interesting.

3:36 [AMBIENT MUSIC] I'm not pregnant.

3:49 And how are we feeling about that?

3:52 Pretty shitty.

3:54 There's a lot going on.

3:55 I think we're both, like, pretty raw today.

4:04 Yeah, it's been a hard couple days.

4:08 Yeah, it's not all, like, the pregnancy stuff.

4:11 It's, like, the news and, like, Trump memo.

4:15 Yes, I was thinking about you two.

4:21 I think that's really weighing heavy on both of us.

4:29 It's just all these things, like, compounding.

4:32 Even, like, this baby thing is, like, not anybody's fault.

4:38 Like, I chose this life, but it's so hard.

4:43 And I feel like I'm being punished all the time.

4:48 Like, most of the time,

4:50 I really don't let the news into my world because this is what happens,

4:56 because I don't understand, like, what that could look like.

4:59 I don't— Concretely in terms of your life.

5:03 But you do understand something,

5:04 which is that if you take it in, it poisons you.

5:10 It shifts things inside.

5:12 Well, I think just like with everything else,

5:14 you have to be quite intentional about how you're taking this in.

5:18 Johnny was talking about how we had a really good week.

5:20 Tell me.

5:24 I don't know.

5:25 It was great.

5:26 Lots of surprises.

5:28 I mean, what surprises?

5:29 Like?

5:30 Like, you know, like, what are the plans without letting me know and, like,

5:34 all of these little things that made me happy.

5:36 [LAUGHS] And then he wanted— oh, he wanted— Wait.

5:39 Slow down.

5:40 Sorry.

5:41 I'm like, ah.

5:42 [LAUGHS] Say it again.

5:44 He wanted?

5:45 He just did the little small things— Tell me.

5:48 --that made me smile.

5:49 We live in the small things.

5:50 Tell me.

5:50 I know.

5:51 He really is living in it.

5:53 I actually forgot it was Monday.

5:55 And I usually, Monday, water the plants.

5:57 And it was like, of course, I did it because it's Monday.

5:59 I was like, oh my God, that's sweet.

6:01 And then we went to the park and it was,

6:05 like, you know, I want to be more spontaneous.

6:07 So let's do what you want to do.

6:09 So he followed me.

6:10 You know, I made suggestions, and we did it, and it's been really nice.

6:20 Well, you made that clear that I need to step up and make it worth your while.

6:25 What's happening?

6:27 [LAUGHING] I don't understand how you guys do this, but like,

6:31 you manage to turn something really sweet

6:34 into something slightly— it's like hidden thorns.

6:38 Like, what's happening?

6:40 Yeah.

6:43 I mean, because it's a little comical to listen to him say,

6:47 you know, it's just these little things.

6:50 Yeah, we live in those little things.

6:52 But these little things—- Yeah.

6:54 --are so little.

6:55 They're not really so little.

6:57 The little gestures are— they have deep roots.

7:01 And the only way that those deep roots show,

7:04 they don't show in the form of, you know, love letters.

7:07 They show in the little things.

7:10 Yeah.

7:12 How are you feeling, Tashira?

7:15 I'm angry.

7:16 I'm confused, disappointed.

7:20 My father, you know, he's never put his hands on me,

7:23 but just seeing him in that space is very scary.

7:30 It's hard to have your wife telling you all these things,

7:35 and then you go to the house,

7:37 and it's like, you have to just do like it— like it never happened.

7:41 No, not like it never happened.

7:43 What if you do like it did happen and you stay in contact?

7:48 It's just a different feeling, I guess.

7:49 I don't know how to explain it because I don't even really— It

7:51 is a different feeling because you're letting in information that is not pretty.

7:58 When people kind of disavow what happened, it leaves you with resentments.

8:05 In a way, that ultimately comes back into your relationship.

8:10 Oh, 100%.

8:13 But you don't see yourself as one piece in the whole dynamic.

8:19 What do you mean exactly?

8:21 Your difficulty opening that door is part of what's going on.

8:27 It's more of a like, it wasn't done to me type of thing.

8:32 So you can keep it over there.

8:36 Not— I guess.

8:38 But it's also it wasn't done to you, but things were done to you.

8:46 Maybe you also have your own reasons

8:49 to protect yourself from the knowledge of violence,

8:51 because you've had actually a lot of violence in your life, too.

8:54 Uh-huh.

8:56 This might be a way that you've protected yourself over your life.

9:00 I mean, maybe, yeah.

9:06 I don't see what my parents did as a violent thing.

9:11 You know, if somebody was to say, you know, did your parents, you know,

9:17 hurt you physically, my first thing wouldn't say, oh, yeah, I got spanked.

9:22 You'd say no?

9:23 Yeah, I would say no.

9:25 I mean, I would say, I got spanked if I did something bad or something,

9:29 but— But they didn't hurt me physically.

9:31 [LAUGHS]- I mean, that's—- I know.

9:34 I know.

9:35 I understand this mechanism, but it's— The registration is just— Yes,

9:39 the registration is like you don't give it the full meaning of what's going on.

9:42 Yeah.

9:43 To protect your connection with them, to keep loving them.

9:48 And I guess because it only happened when we did something wrong.

9:53 It didn't happen just to happen.

9:55 My dad didn't drink and do it, you know,

9:57 like— So at least it had some lawfulness to it.

10:00 Exactly.

10:01 It was a correction.

10:02 You know, I would feel bad calling it violence.

10:05 I wouldn't feel right.

10:06 So we can call it organized violence.

10:09 Lawful, organized violence.

10:11 I don't know.

10:12 It's hard for me to take it in as that.

10:16 Does that help you understand something about Drew's difficulty?

10:22 Yeah, I mean— Fully empathizing with you?

10:24 I understand, and I understand everything that he's saying.

10:27 He's not letting in the hurt of what happened to him.

10:35 And now things are OK,

10:37 so it's kind of like it didn't really happen, or it's not important anymore.

10:43 I mean, it's a little hurtful to me.

10:46 Like, he's just living the fun life.

10:49 He's just watching and— And leaving you alone.

10:52 --and leaving me to deal with it by myself.

10:56 Yeah, I mean— Yeah.

10:58 I guess it has to do with my wife is talking to me

11:02 about somebody who hurt her or who's affected her a certain way.

11:06 And— And that person is right in front of you.

11:10 Yeah, I don't know.

11:12 But if you tried to be present to what

11:16 that brings up in you when you're interacting with him, it could be interesting.

11:20 Not that you have to do anything, but just witness it in yourself.

11:26 Yeah, and then what?

11:27 Feel?

11:29 Feel whatever comes up.

11:31 Bad things?

11:32 Yeah, feel bad things.

11:33 But then that's not being comfortable.

11:36 So what?

11:38 So why would I put myself in an uncomfortable situation?

11:42 Because you want to know reality,

11:46 and because it's getting in the way of you connecting with Tashira.

11:52 When we came here, I felt like he just didn't do anything.

11:56 Like, you know, I complained about every aspect of our marriage.

11:59 I said, he doesn't do.

12:00 And now, it's like in so many different aspects of our life, that has changed.

12:05 You know, it's changed with, like, intimacy in our relationship.

12:08 It's changed with what he actually physically does like up around the house.

12:11 It's changed with chores.

12:12 It's changed with the kids.

12:13 It's all changed.

12:14 But you know what?

12:15 There's always, like,

12:16 this underlying fear in me that I have to, like, keep this going.

12:20 Because if I don't and I let my guard down,

12:22 he's just going to slip back and slide.

12:24 Why are you even, like, appointing yourself as taskmaster?

12:27 I don't— the thing is,

12:28 maybe that's what's driving me crazy is I don't want to be this person anymore.

12:31 I don't want to feel like I have to, like,

12:33 stand over you with the whip to be an adult.

12:35 You definitely don't have to.

12:36 So then what's going to happen?

12:37 But can I ask you then to follow this idea of, like,

12:41 getting curious about yourself?

12:43 OK.

12:45 So let's say you're anxiety about nothing ever

12:50 happening is not only about the two of you.

12:53 Like, who taught you to be anxious like this?

12:57 Probably my mother.

12:58 My father and my mother tried to go to Israel, and, like,

13:01 it didn't work out for them, and they lost a lot of money in the transition.

13:05 So she was extremely, extremely nervous and, like, anxious, like, all the time.

13:11 I know that my parents had some very hard times,

13:14 and they are where they are right now because they both,

13:18 like, bared down, and worked,

13:21 and did as much as they possibly could, and weren't lazy.

13:24 You know, the thing is, like— What I'm trying to invite you to do

13:29 is not take it as only as a concrete reality,

13:32 but to understand that these are also anxieties,

13:36 that when they get instilled in a young person,

13:39 they take on this kind of mythical quality.

13:45 What I'm trying to somehow find a way to encourage

13:48 curiosity in you is to read your own anxiety that way,

13:53 to understand it as, like, a memory or something that was handed down to you,

13:59 like an errand that was handed down to you by your family.

14:05 How does the bickering go?

14:07 I mean, I get like— It sounds like you're saying something, Josh.

14:13 Oh.

14:16 I don't bicker.

14:17 I'm not a bickerer.

14:18 I can't believe I'm using this word, bicker.

14:21 We never use this word bickering.

14:23 OK, I'm going to use an example.

14:25 I like to go to bed with the kitchen completely clean.

14:27 I don't like dishes in the sink.

14:29 I like— To wake up in the morning.

14:31 I want to wake up in the morning and have it be clean.

14:33 And this morning, there were dishes in the sink,

14:36 and I yell about, you know, why are the dishes here?

14:41 And we have to clean this up.

14:42 And I have told you, I don't want the dishes in the sink.

14:44 And then Josh will say, OK, I'll take care of it.

14:48 But that to me is still not, like— every single time it happens,

14:51 I don't want to hear, I'll take care of it.

14:53 I just— I don't want it to happen.

14:56 Can I just ask you what your thoughts are on this?

15:01 When she gets upset about the fact that I didn't do them last night.

15:04 I think, yeah, but I did them the night before

15:07 and the night before that, and for the last 20 years.

15:11 You know, I've been doing the dishes.

15:12 So yeah, what I want to say is, like, lay off.

15:19 But what you then say is?

15:23 Honey, I'll take care of it.

15:24 I'll take care of that.

15:25 I'll take care of it.

15:26 I'll do that.

15:27 But then I think to myself, like, this is about something else.

15:32 I would love if he would stop me in that moment and say,

15:37 honey, it seems like something else is going on.

15:40 Do you want to talk about it?

15:42 Because that right there makes me feel like he's interested in me.

15:47 Does that make sense?

15:49 Yeah, I mean, it made me think that you were identified with the dishes,

15:53 that you feel neglected.

15:55 The dishes are like you.

15:57 I'm torn between addressing this kind of surface level communication.

16:01 But it sounds like you're also sitting on the betrayal you've

16:06 felt and need to work something out further about what happened.

16:14 I'll be honest, Laura.

16:15 Like, I don't know what else can be said or explained.

16:21 She's explained it in so many different ways.

16:24 And are there some things that she has said that I wish I had not heard?

16:30 Yes.

16:31 What do you mean?

16:32 Like, there was one time where I asked, like,

16:36 if things had gone well with him, would you still be with him?

16:42 And you said, probably, yeah.

16:47 You're, like— I don't know what to do.

16:51 Brock, here's the thing.

16:52 What's happening right now?

16:56 I feel like you put me between a rock and a hard place sometimes,

16:59 because you are always asking me these hypotheticals.

17:02 What if this had happened?

17:03 What if that had happened?

17:04 What if this had happened?

17:05 And I don't want to patronize you.

17:07 I want to be honest, but I also don't know.

17:10 So then I'm as honest as I can be, and then you're hurt.

17:14 But it is hurtful.

17:16 I know, but, like, I don't— like, I don't know.

17:18 So, like, if anything, I'm going to— That is the truth.

17:20 Yeah.

17:21 Like, literally, I don't know.

17:23 It is hurtful.

17:24 And listen.

17:26 So that's what's going on.

17:28 You want to be honest, which is brave.

17:32 Yeah, but it always fucks me over.

17:34 It doesn't fuck you over.

17:35 It means you have to bear the consequences.

17:38 I know.

17:40 It's like you want to be honest, but you can't stand what's coming back at you.

17:45 Can you spend a couple of weeks without seeing each other?

17:50 Sad.

17:51 And focus on the fact that you are breaking up as partners,

17:56 and see what that actually feels like?

18:02 Two weeks apart?

18:03 Two weeks apart.

18:05 And let's meet after that, see how you're feeling.

18:09 Can you just send me pictures of the cats every now?

18:12 100%.

18:12 The animals?

18:12 OK, thanks.

18:13 I just want to know their life.

18:15 Maybe you don't even need that.

18:18 The cats are alive.

18:19 They look the same.

18:20 [LAUGHING] OK.

18:24 She's coming for you.

18:25 Yes.

18:26 OK, OK, OK, OK, OK.

18:29 He wasn't in the most control of his emotions,

18:33 and they were just kind of, you know,

18:35 whatever he was saying, he was just saying it.

18:38 There was no filter.

18:39 Well, I dissociated.

18:41 What?

18:42 During the conversation.

18:44 During that conversation, you dissociated?

18:46 Yeah.

18:48 Where did you go?

18:49 And what were you seeing?

18:51 I don't know, but— There was a part of the night that, like, I was just scared.

18:55 What happened?

18:56 I hear him coming down the stairs, so I run to the bathroom.

19:00 And he's, like, talking at me while I'm sitting,

19:06 saying, like, I will never get it.

19:09 Like, I'm selfish.

19:10 This is why your sister doesn't tell you stuff.

19:13 This is why, like, your relationship with your mom is so messed up.

19:16 Like, the meanest things.

19:20 Because at this point, I'm in the corner.

19:23 I'm sitting in the bathroom cowering, and I'm like, I just want to be here.

19:29 Just walk away, please.

19:33 So he must have had my glasses somewhere and broke my glasses and then leaves.

19:37 And I'm like, how much more understanding am I supposed to be?

19:44 When does this cross the line of, like,

19:47 you're being a survivor and this being a traumatic episode,

19:52 and this just being abusive?

19:57 Can I ask you, Alexis, what what do you remember of all of this?

20:09 I remember, like, when we were sitting on the table.

20:16 And I feel like I remember hail or, like, rain or something.

20:24 But for example, the scene in the bathroom?

20:29 Nothing?

20:33 Do you know who you're switching into?

20:37 I just say, like, my dissociative self.

20:40 Like, a part, like, towards the end of my abuse,

20:47 where I would kind of stop my mom from the physical abuse.

20:55 And it was probably just like one year, but that year was when I left the house.

21:00 Yeah.

21:03 You know, in those moments, it's not just like him,

21:06 the adult who's gone through it and processed some parts.

21:11 At this point, now it's like little Alexis who needs to speak.

21:18 So he's very vocal.

21:21 And if you say anything that is— that feels like opposition,

21:28 he's going to speak.

21:31 So that important self in your development,

21:38 someone that managed to change things.

21:40 Yeah, I mean— And pull you out of something.

21:44 The only time that I—- Yeah.

21:45 Yeah.

21:48 And do you have contact with that part of you?

21:53 No.

21:55 I don't mean I don't— what do you mean by contact?

21:59 Contact, like, can you speak to that part of you,

22:02 make some agreements with that part?

22:05 Can you— I mean, I don't have the ability,

22:09 really, but I think I have successfully on, like,

22:13 one or two occasions kind of, like, tricked that part, you know.

22:19 Do you know if Kazimar says anything in particular,

22:22 can that part calm down, or can he bring back other sides of you?

22:28 I mean, there was one time, like, you told me that kept switching.

22:33 Yeah.

22:34 Because he's like anger, you know.

22:37 And then there's like the sad.

22:39 That's the little one.

22:41 Yeah, it's almost like stages of grief that is like, it's just anger.

22:46 Then it's this sadness and this, like, burst of joy, then back to sad.

22:52 One of the ways that trauma operates is that there's, like,

22:56 some kind of sense of danger that has to be put somewhere.

23:01 Right?

23:02 And part of what happens between intimate partners

23:04 is your closest person becomes the dangerous object.

23:09 I feel like the last week or two, you've been kind of avoiding me.

23:13 I have.

23:14 There we go.

23:15 OK, was that easy?

23:16 I mean, it's— Yeah, I have.

23:17 When you live in a two bedroom apartment in Manhattan,

23:20 and your wife disappears for a three hour dog walk,

23:22 you know, for a few days consecutively, you know there's definitely an issue.

23:26 We've not addressed it until now.

23:27 So tell me how it affects you.

23:34 Well, it upsetting.

23:35 You know, my mom's in town from overseas.

23:37 I was conscientious of how I was behaving around my mom,

23:41 because I felt like Allison thought I was babysitting.

23:44 You got upset with me, like, you know, making her a cup of tea,

23:46 and can't she do it herself, and stuff like that.

23:48 I can make my mom a cup of tea.

23:50 Don't—- OK.

23:51 Don't.

23:52 The timing felt a bit curious that my mom's here,

23:53 and then she disappears for, you know,

23:55 three hours, two days in a row or whatever the case was.

23:57 And Alison keeps on telling me, communicate,

24:00 communicate, talk, talk, which is like a mantra.

24:03 And yet she's done some disappearing acts the last week or so.

24:07 So I'm not quite sure.

24:08 But obviously, she's nodding her head, so there's— No,

24:09 no, no, no, no, I'm just listening.

24:10 OK.

24:11 But you're not just listening.

24:12 You're making notes.

24:13 Yeah, absolutely.

24:15 What do you mean absolutely?

24:16 No, absolutely, I'm making notes and I'm processing what he's saying.

24:19 But you're shaking your head, so you're— in your body language,

24:22 you're conveying disapproval, despite trying to keep it in, so— Sure.

24:29 Listen without voicing an opinion.

24:31 OK.

24:32 I'm feeling like let's talk about us and the other side of the coin.

24:40 Like, there's all the things that Boris feels he needs to be doing,

24:43 and then there's the stuff that I need, need,

24:46 need to be doing for us to live right now.

24:52 I have to make money.

24:54 And I was more stable at one point,

24:58 and I'm getting less, and less, and less stable.

25:02 Because what is happening?

25:03 --is now is happening here.

25:05 How?

25:06 I've been not physically well for a while.

25:09 I've had a persistent cough for, like, nearly a year.

25:15 I've lost weight that I wasn't trying to lose.

25:20 Sometimes my hands will shake.

25:24 Like, just my immune system is just shot.

25:26 Like, if I get something, I don't get over it.

25:29 It just stays.

25:32 That, plus the emotional part of it.

25:36 I just see that I'm heading towards a place where

25:39 I will probably not be able to work at all.

25:42 And I said to you, I think that I need to be— I need you to go away for a while.

25:52 I need you to move out in order to calm this situation down.

25:59 What would you prefer?

26:03 I would prefer to stay there.

26:06 It does not— it's not a life that works for me, but it's even worse to move out.

26:12 Can the two of you imagine what would be

26:15 a better idea to just either take a break or separate?

26:20 What can you live with?

26:22 One very easy thing, one very clear but not easy thing for both of us,

26:27 Boris figures out ways of not being

26:29 so upfront with everything that's making him upset.

26:32 Jessica continues tolerating and acknowledging Boris's

26:36 difficult moments by engaging with them

26:38 in a way that makes him feel like this is her burden, too.

26:42 But I want to ask whether the solution you're looking for, trying

26:47 to recruit Jessica to the task is the way to go.

26:52 I just want to tell you that sometimes that is a fantasy that is not realistic.

26:57 Recognition, and acknowledgment and shared purpose cannot be a fantasy.

27:02 I don't know.

27:04 I don't know.

27:06 Recognition sometimes is code name for something

27:09 that is beyond another person's capacity to give.

27:14 But then it's not a good dynamic for me.

27:16 Trust me, from clinical experience, sometimes the ask from another person,

27:23 they can't give it to you.

27:25 It might be that Jessica is saying to you,

27:27 I cannot be the person helping you here.

27:30 I understand.

27:31 The thing that I'm seeking, the other person can't give.

27:34 All I've ever wanted was unconditional love, right?

27:37 Whereas Kyle turns around and gives it to me the way I only know it,

27:42 which is conditional.

27:43 While you were talking about your experience,

27:46 I was thinking about when we went to The Eagle.

27:49 The Eagle is one of the well-known leather gay bars in Hell's Kitchen.

27:55 I know The Eagle.

27:56 Who doesn't know The Eagle.

27:57 [LAUGHING] There, and there's a guy that started to hang out with us.

28:02 And— Started hanging out with you.

28:05 It was you.

28:06 And in the beginning he was hanging out with us.

28:08 And later on, I started to notice how he would pay more attention towards me.

28:15 And yes, we made out.

28:16 And it wasn't coming from a place of, oh, he's not here anymore.

28:20 Great.

28:20 No.

28:22 You were at the bar over there, and OK, you're over there.

28:27 You're going to be back.

28:28 There is no hiding from me.

28:32 OK.

28:34 Yeah.

28:35 And so I felt safe.

28:36 Yeah.

28:38 I completely disagree with everything he's saying, by the way.

28:40 I just, I have to say that.

28:41 I'm sorry.

28:42 That's not how it played out for you?

28:44 Not for me.

28:45 No way.

28:45 Interesting.

28:46 It was not that at all.

28:48 And, like, this is going to get really dense,

28:51 but I'm sorry that I have to say this.

28:52 But there was also a racial element that I was also

28:54 kind of looking at, because it was a perfect example where finally,

28:59 I could bring it up to Kyle and say, by the way,

29:02 have you ever noticed that we're in a biracial relationship?

29:06 And then I said, have you ever noticed how you've been

29:09 primarily focused on as a White man to another White man?

29:12 And he doesn't notice it because he's

29:15 in the moment of being validated by another man.

29:20 He doesn't notice it also because of whiteness.

29:22 Could be whiteness.

29:24 Could be whiteness, as well.

29:25 Part of being White.

29:26 You don't notice.

29:28 [POP MUSIC]