Why Grass-Fed Isn’t Enough — Food Labels Mislead You | Dr. Autumn Smith

0:00 Food is a photograph of the land and the system from which it came.

0:03 And these new advanced techniques are giving scientists

0:06 the ability to really zoom in on how they change.

0:09 And then the next step is how exactly does that impact human health?

0:13 We found even 30,000 compounds just in beef alone.

0:16 They change dramatically based on the production system.

0:20 There's this paper that came out in 2019,

0:22 they looked at the grass-fed beef available and the fatty-acid ratios,

0:27 and they found that up to 26:1 all

0:29 the way down to 2:1 in the same grass-fed category.

0:32 Grass-fed is not necessarily grass-finished.

0:35 I think that's what people need to understand.

0:37 And then when it comes to chickens,

0:39 there's that whole "Vital Farms" controversy.

0:41 Pasture-raised, there isn't really a super

0:44 clear definition about what that means.

0:45 When it comes to cage-free,

0:47 animals can be out of a cage and still in a warehouse.

0:50 And free-range it just kind of requires that there is a door to the outdoors,

0:53 not necessarily a pasture even.

0:55 You just have to be really careful.

0:57 There's this illusion of choice whenever you go into a grocery store.

1:01 The truth is, there's like four companies

1:03 in the meat industry that own 85% of the processing.

1:07 It's a highly, highly consolidated market.

1:10 "Autumn," what would you say is the biggest mistake

1:12 you see people making when they think they're eating healthy?

1:16 Ooh, not paying attention to food quality.

1:18 I think it's really a lot simpler than we've made it.

1:21 Rather than counting macros and obsessing over other smaller

1:25 details of the diet,— if you eat— high-quality animal products,

1:29 whole foods, one-ingredient foods,

1:31 foods your grandmother would recognize it can be

1:34 a lot simpler than people are making it.

1:37 Okay.

1:38 As you explain that to me, there's a couple different areas we could zoom in on.

1:43 One being the whole foods aspect from the ultra-processed foods, and then two,

1:48 even within that, going deeper into quality within the foods, say meat.

1:53 So try and parse those two apart and explain how you feel in each realm.

1:57 Yeah, so I do, I think there's something about these ultra-processed

2:01 foods that create that 58% of our American diet calories or approximately,

2:06 and-— 67% of our children's calories,

2:09 there's something about those foods that is not only nutrient-deficient,

2:13 obviously, but also makes us overeat.

2:16 And I think that's very dangerous because we're eating and eating

2:19 and eating and not getting the nutrients that we need.

2:22 And so we're feeling tired and potentially anxious, I was bloated.

2:26 And we're eating enough calories, we're just eating the wrong kinds of calories.

2:29 So whole foods brings us back to the right kinds of calories.

2:33 But, like you said, there's this other element of the quality

2:36 of those whole foods that is super important right now, too,

2:39 because we're at a point in history where the nutrient content of our foods

2:43 is lower than it's ever been at any other point in history.

2:46 It's been estimated we need two times the amount of meat,

2:50 three times the amount of fruit,

2:51 and four to five times the amount of vegetables to get

2:54 the same amount of nutrients that we would have in 1940.

2:58 And this is largely due to our industrial agricultural

3:01 practices that have essentially turned our soil into dirt.

3:04 So we've taken the life in the soil, which, in a tablespoon of soil,

3:08 there's more life than there are people on the planet.

3:11 But because of the chemicals,

3:13 the fertilizers, the pesticides, the extractive agriculture,

3:16 we've killed that life that acts as a bridge between the nutrients in the soil,

3:21 the plants that consume them, the animals that consume the plants,

3:25 and ultimately the humans who could benefit.

3:27 And so when I did my work with Doctor

3:29 "van Vliet," which I'm sure we'll talk about,

3:32 we found even 30,000 compounds just in beef alone,

3:35 and that they change dramatically based on the production system:

3:39 or did it come from a feedlot, did it come from an organic operation?

3:43 Did it come from a grass-fed operation?

3:45 And so yes, going to a whole foods diet is step one,

3:49 and I hope more people can just simply start there.

3:52 But then beyond that, once you've mastered that, paying

3:56 attention to the quality of those whole foods,

3:59 where did these whole foods come from?

4:02 What was the system that created those whole foods?

4:05 It is an amazing next step because ultimately, if we don't,

4:09 we won't ever restore that nutrient density of the food supply.

4:13 And some people estimate we only have 60 years of topsoil left.

4:17 And what happens then?

4:18 Then where do we get those whole foods,

4:20 and are they even as healing as they once were?

4:22 I think it's an important question.

4:25 You mentioned 30,000 different components of just meat.

4:29 Most people think of it as macros, maybe some vitamins, minerals...

4:34 what does that look like?

4:36 Yeah, it's crazy.

4:37 So we have the 13 nutrients on a food label, we track about 150 in databases,

4:42 but 30,000 different compounds in meat, in beef, in our particular study.

4:47 Now, this is Doctor "van Vliet" out of Utah State,

4:51 and they've developed more advanced techniques

4:53 to look at this vast array of nutrients, of compounds, of metabolites,

4:58 or just things kind of floating around in the food that we're eating,

5:03 nutrients and other things.

5:05 It's called metabolomics, and essentially it just widens the view.

5:11 You can all of a sudden see all the different tiny little changes that happen.

5:16 And so when they do this, they don't.

5:18 And honestly, Doctor "van Vliet" can't

5:21 necessarily categorize all of the different compounds.

5:23 We don't even know what they are.

5:25 They're just beginning to be studied.

5:28 But what we do know is that they're changing in very profound ways.

5:32 He did an analysis too, between a plant-based burger and a grass-fed burger,

5:36 and they found that 90% of the metabolites

5:39 in that, and there were thousands were different.

5:42 So the nutrition panels were the same,

5:44 and yet they were very, very, very different foods.

5:48 And these are plant compounds, these are omega-3 fatty acids,

5:51 these are vitamins, these are minerals.

5:54 And so it's a broad spectrum of different types of nutrients,

5:58 but they are changing, it's basically meat.

6:00 Food is a photograph of the land and the system from which it came.

6:05 And these new advanced techniques are giving scientists the ability

6:08 to really zoom in on how exactly they change.

6:11 And then the next step is— how exactly does that impact human health?

6:17 Well, let's zoom in on the meat aspect right now and the different types

6:22 of farming and talk about what science

6:24 has shown in that final product we're eating,

6:27 depending on how that animal was raised.

6:30 Yeah, so I got to do this really cool project called

6:33 the "Beef Nutrient Density Project." Are you familiar with "Dan Kittredge?" No.

6:38 Tell me about him.

6:39 Okay, you should have him on the show.

6:42 So "Dan Kittredge," he is the founder of the "Bionutrient

6:46 Food Association," and his parents basically wrote the organic standards.

6:51 And his goal is to reprioritize nutrient density to become the foundation

6:55 of the way we produce food and the way that consumers can choose their food.

7:01 And so what he's developing is this handheld meter,

7:04 kind of like "Star Trek" or "Star Wars" where you'd

7:06 go to the store and you scan a piece of produce,

7:09 and it would tell you what was the most nutrient dense.

7:12 What's the most nutrient-dense piece of meat or piece of produce?

7:15 And he thinks in doing so gives consumers the power

7:18 to then change the way that we're raising our food.

7:20 Because right now we're prioritizing for yield, how much can we make?

7:25 How big is what we're making?

7:27 But not the more important aspect is

7:30 what nutrients does the food actually contain.

7:32 And so he partnered up with Doctor "van

7:35 Vliet" because in order to create a handheld meter,

7:38 you first have to define nutrient density.

7:41 And what he's found in his testing is that it varies dramatically.

7:46 In terms of four times different amount of minerals,

7:50 10 times different amount of antioxidants from this carrot to that carrot,

7:55 and that it doesn't always correspond to organic or conventional.

8:00 The labels don't always accurately capture

8:02 the variation in these nutrient levels.

8:05 And so what they had to do was they started with beef.

8:08 We're going to define beef because it's

8:11 one of the most widely distributed food products.

8:14 And so Doctor "van Vliet's" team at Utah State came in and said,

8:18 we're going to look at all the different production

8:21 systems that are happening in beef in North America, when I was involved.

8:26 But it has gone beyond that.

8:28 It's going to be a worldwide,

8:30 there's people doing this in the UK too, in other areas.

8:33 But if we look at feedlots, if we look at what we call feedlot lites,

8:37 maybe like feedlots who are out on pasture more,

8:41 they're feeding for a shorter window of time at the end of life.

8:44 What about if we do a grass-fed operation?

8:47 Or what if we do something beyond grass-fed operation

8:50 where they're actually doing something

8:52 like regenerative grazing, rotational grazing?

8:55 And we looked at how many species were in the pasture.

8:59 And we got really nuanced with the practices.

9:01 And so there's over 300 different samples.

9:04 And we looked at ribeyes because you have

9:06 to be very specific about the type of meat.

9:09 This was a fattier cut so that we could actually capture the variation.

9:13 And what they found was pretty awesome.

9:15 So lots of different changes in the phytonutrients,

9:18 and these are more of like "van Vliet's" specialty.

9:21 He talks a lot about the plant compounds

9:24 that can actually end up in our meat phenols, terpenoids.

9:28 And they change, like you said, based on what the animal is eating.

9:32 We can have plant compounds in the final product.

9:35 Doctor "Fred Provenza" actually believes that these compounds

9:39 might be able to affect satiety.

9:40 This is maybe why you eat a grass-fed steak and you feel

9:43 a little more satiated than you do when you eat a grain-fed steak.

9:47 But these compounds on their own also have antioxidant,

9:50 anti-inflammatory, antidepressant, you name it.

9:52 They're called secondary compounds.

9:54 But what these researchers believe is that they have very primary roles

9:58 in our health that they just haven't been as emphasized as we maybe should.

10:02 And then what our paper looked at specifically,

10:05 and it just came out in the "Journal of Animal Science,"

10:08 which I was very excited about is the fatty acid profile.

10:12 And my favorite takeaway is that omega-3 fatty acids,

10:15 this is a topic I love because I think they're so important,

10:19 so underrated, and so many people

10:21 are suffering because they're not getting enough.

10:24 I think Harvard research suggested 84,000 deaths in America

10:27 every year are just due to this one deficiency.

10:30 And so we had three times more omega-3s

10:32 in a grass-fed steak than we did in a grain-fed steak.

10:36 And other research that we can talk about.

10:38 In fact, the people who I worked on this project with Doctor,

10:42 actually, going-to-be a doctor, "Joseph Baird" has looked at how eating

10:46 beef changes the omega-3 ratio in the blood, and its significant effects.

10:51 People have argued that, oh no,

10:53 the absolute amount in beef isn't large enough to be meaningful,

10:57 but that's not true, because it can make meaningful changes in the blood.

11:02 So the omega-3 fatty acid status was one thing,

11:04 the omega 6-to-3 ratio was another.

11:07 I'm sure you've talked about this ratio.

11:09 People are often aiming below 4:1 or 2:1.

11:13 Americans live 15:1.

11:15 Many people believe that rebalancing the foods that we

11:18 eat that ratio can help prevent inflammatory conditions.

11:23 And so we had 8:1 in the grain-fed beef, and around a 2:1 in the grass-fed beef.

11:29 And then we also saw higher levels of certain minerals,

11:32 six times the amount of selenium, three times the amount of calcium,

11:36 two times the amount of copper, 1.2 times the amount of iron.

11:39 There was also a different saturated fatty acid profile,

11:43 which I think is really interesting, because many people don't look at saturated

11:47 fats as this diverse category, but they are.

11:49 And certain saturated fats are neutral.

11:51 Certain longer-chain forms are actually associated

11:54 with a decreased risk of cardiovascular disease.

11:58 And so we had higher levels of pentadecanoic acid

12:01 which "C15" people are talking about and then behenic acid,

12:05 arachidic acid these longer-chain forms and a higher percentage of stearic acid,

12:10 "C18," which we know is a more neutral saturated fatty acid,

12:13 and more "CLA," conjugated linoleic acid.

12:16 And one of the other cool takeaways

12:18 is grass-fed is not grass-fed is not grass-fed,

12:21 grain-fed isn't always grain-fed.

12:24 The longer the animal was on pasture and the more diverse that pasture.

12:29 So if you had up to 10 different plants in that pasture,

12:32 it seemed to have a higher amount of "ALA" the plant form of omega-3s,

12:37 and a lower omega 6-to-3 fatty acid ratio.

12:40 But not all grass-fed samples had a better ratio than the grain-fed samples.

12:45 And so, basically our conclusion is that it really matters.

12:48 The production system matters.

12:50 For things that will be probably impactful for human health,

12:54 actually, I think definitely impactful for human health.

12:57 But that the current labeling system doesn't necessarily capture,

13:00 doesn't accurately capture, that variation.

13:04 Okay, well, as an end user, let's talk about that.

13:07 What do we want to look for in labels?

13:09 And then what are some of the deceptive things

13:12 that may be used that we want to ignore?

13:15 Yeah, that's a great question.

13:17 So I think in January 2016,

13:18 they took away that "USDA" regulation of the grass-fed label.

13:22 So you can actually have, and all cows begin their life on grass and then

13:26 it's what they eat in the last 90, 120 days.

13:29 That's the fat profile that often ends up on your plate.

13:33 And so there's this paper that came out in 2019, Bronkema.

13:37 They looked at the grass-fed beef available in America,

13:40 grass-fed and the fatty acid ratios, and they found that up to 26:1,

13:45 all the way down to 2:1 in the same grass-fed category.

13:48 So grass-fed is not necessarily grass-finished.

13:51 I think that's what people need to understand.

13:54 And so if you want to look for something like grass-fed and finished,

13:57 that might be another layer of certainty.

14:00 Also you can look for a third-party verification

14:02 like the "American Grassfed Association." They come in every

14:05 15 months and verify that the animal is

14:08 actually eating grass for the entirety of its life.

14:10 And unfortunately, a lot of these labeling claims are based on affidavits,

14:14 or they submit paperwork, the ranchers, the people raising the animals

14:18 rather than any sort of third-party verification.

14:21 So I would look for 100% grass-fed and finished, or inquire to the company,

14:25 are they eating grain at any point in their life?

14:28 That's my favorite question because it kind of just

14:30 gets to the heart of the matter rather than,

14:33 are they grass-fed because all animals are.

14:35 Or look for something like the "American Grassfed

14:38 Association." And then when it comes to chickens,

14:40 this is also really interesting because

14:42 there's that whole— "Vital Farms" controversy,

14:45 and a lot of people were really surprised.

14:47 So pasture-raised, there isn't really a super

14:50 clear definition yet about what that means.

14:53 I think they're moving in that direction,

14:55 looking like they're probably going to define it.

14:59 The life of the chicken, over 51% of their life has to be on pasture.

15:03 But right now, that isn't necessarily regulated.

15:06 And so you have to kind of, again,

15:08 get a little closer to the food supply and ask what's actually happening.

15:12 What percentage of their diet is coming from corn and soy?

15:16 How many days of their life,

15:18 how often are they out on pasture, and ask questions like that.

15:21 When it comes to cage-free,

15:23 animals can be out of a cage and still in a warehouse with thousands of animals.

15:28 When it comes to eggs and free-range,

15:30 it just kind of requires that there is a door that has access to the outdoors,

15:35 not necessarily a pasture even, sometimes it can be a cement or dirt plot.

15:40 So, yeah, you just have to be really careful.

15:42 Pasture-raised, is the way to go when it comes to chickens and pork.

15:47 But you still have to ask questions about.

15:50 And then they have— eggs.

15:52 I don't know if you've talked much about

15:54 the "Vital Farms" stuff on here or what was happening.

15:57 Did you see that?

15:58 No, but that was going to be my follow-up...

16:01 Explain that whole controversy and what panned out there.

16:04 Yeah, it's interesting, because I went to lunch the other day

16:07 with the "CEO" of "Vital Farms." I know he...

16:09 cares deeply about the humane welfare of animals.

16:11 I was very, very impressed.

16:13 And I think...

16:13 people were surprised by the amount of linoleic acid in the eggs.

16:18 And I'm sure you've talked about linoleic acid.

16:20 It's an omega-6 fatty acid.

16:21 And a lot of people believe that we're eating too much of the omega-6,

16:25 which is competing with the omega-3s.

16:27 And potentially leading to...

16:29 more inflammation.

16:30 And so what came out was that "Vital Farms" egg had a...

16:35 ratio, or an amount of linoleic acid,

16:38 that omega-6 fatty acid, that was similar to canola oil.

16:43 Though the absolute amounts were different, they were a little bit different...

16:47 So I think what surprised people is they saw "Vital Farms" eggs,

16:50 they believed they were just out on pasture.

16:52 And that is a misconception like chickens do eat grains.

16:55 They do.

16:56 And it just kind of...

16:57 depends upon the amount of grains they're eating

16:59 and the amount of time on pasture they're getting.

17:01 Those are kind of the two big levers.

17:03 If you're having a lot of grains and very little time on pasture,

17:06 you're going to have a higher percentage of those omega-6 fatty acids.

17:09 But if you're having...

17:10 more time on pasture, maybe a smaller percentage of the diet from grains,

17:14 and maybe even there's things like "DHA" rich

17:17 eggs where you're having kelp or linseed oil,

17:21 or they're actually supplementing with high omega-6 or omega-3-rich foods.

17:25 And then they have certain...

17:27 companies doing corn and soy-free eggs entirely,

17:29 which is really another interesting concept that goes...

17:33 beyond the omega-6 to 3 ratio.

17:34 I've heard a lot of people...

17:36 Now, I haven't seen a lot of good

17:38 evidence around this in the scientific community,

17:41 but I've had a lot of people say we need to study this better.

17:44 It's that certain people, especially when it comes to autoimmune conditions,

17:49 seem to react to the corn and soy-fed animals,

17:52 whether that be pork or chicken or beef,

17:55 in a way that they don't when the animal is strictly fed grass.

17:59 And obviously, chickens, that can't happen,

18:01 strictly feeding with grass, but with...

18:03 cows that can.

18:04 And so I think that's really interesting.

18:06 But for me, it's if I was eating something on a daily

18:10 basis because I'm very tuned into this omega-6 to 3 fatty acid ratio,

18:14 like our staples at our home, we're mindful of that.

18:17 But we're in the wellness space and this is our life and our livelihood.

18:21 But I do think it's unfair to say that having one

18:25 of those eggs as a one-off is going to be like eating canola oil.

18:30 Because eggs have so much else to offer...

18:32 than canola oil does, in...

18:35 my humble opinion.

18:36 And so I think some of it's unfair.

18:38 I don't think, by definition, linoleic acid is toxic or anything like that.

18:41 I think if you eat too much of it, it's definitely not a good thing.

18:45 But it's also an essential nutrient and it comes in an egg.

18:47 So that's kind of my really nuanced take...

18:50 I don't know how you feel, but I'd be curious.

18:53 Well, to me, from the reading I did on this topic, was the linoleic acid.

18:57 And I think the other piece that people felt that they

19:00 were deceived on was the yolks and the birds eating marigold.

19:04 And I think there may have been another type of...

19:08 molecule in their feed...

19:09 that was adding to the color of the yolks,

19:12 making it more of that yellowy-orange color.

19:15 Are you familiar with that being a piece of this?

19:18 Yeah, I didn't read a lot about that.

19:20 I was really clued in to just the omega-6 to 3, but I could see that.

19:24 I could see that.

19:25 And that does happen in the industry.

19:28 I'm very familiar with that because— whatever the consumers are clued

19:31 into, that's what the producers are going to be mindful of and...

19:35 trying to create in their product.

19:38 But I do understand, too, that those are not...

19:40 cheap eggs, and people...

19:41 are expecting, the best of the best and all of these boxes to be checked.

19:45 And...

19:46 I could see why that would be a surprise.

19:48 And to me, this...

19:49 is potentially a microcosm for a bigger issue.

19:52 We've zoned in on this one company in this one instance.

19:55 But for me, as somebody prioritizing these foods, spending that extra money,

20:00 when you have an erosion of that trust in one area or with one company,

20:05 you begin to doubt your investments in this area as a whole.

20:10 I know.

20:10 It's unfortunate, isn't it?

20:11 And then people just throw their hands in the air and they say,

20:14 well, it's all the same.

20:16 It doesn't really matter.

20:17 Yeah, it's a big problem.

20:19 I can see that.

20:20 So you mentioned going to lunch with...

20:22 I think it was the "CEO" the other day, talking to him...

20:26 the reading you did online.

20:28 Do you feel like there was deception...

20:30 in what this company was doing...

20:32 or it was just people interpreting...

20:34 what they were seeing online...

20:35 and on the cartons wrongly?

20:36 Mmhmm.

20:37 Yeah, I don't think that they were being deceptive.

20:41 That's not my opinion.

20:42 I think that...

20:43 many people don't understand that chickens do still eat

20:46 grains and that pasture isn't always this clearly defined term.

20:50 And so I don't necessarily think they are being deceptive.

20:53 I think people don't understand how gray this area can be, unfortunately.

20:59 So that's my opinion.

21:00 What do you think?

21:01 I didn't go too deep on it...

21:02 So, yeah, I don't have a lot of thoughts

21:06 other than they were eggs I was investing in...

21:08 Now I'm hitting the pause button,

21:09 kind of waiting for the dust to settle and just...

21:12 Yeah.

21:13 inquiring with people who are in the world and seeing what they're thinking.

21:15 Yeah.

21:16 Yeah.

21:16 But I'm just really excited that these conversations are happening.

21:20 Because I do think that people with soy and corn

21:24 who are reacting to that, it's important to know

21:26 that chickens are eating soy and corn and that if

21:29 you're really clued in to that omega-6 to 3 ratio,

21:31 which I think is a-— hugely important topic.

21:34 I think people are just learning about these issues through that, even though I

21:38 don't necessarily think that what "Vital Farms"

21:40 is doing is wrong or necessarily deceptive.

21:43 But I do think the conversations that are happening because of that are

21:47 important and are going to be

21:48 really helpful for certain— people and populations.

21:51 Let's zoom in on pork.

21:52 You mentioned quickly we want to look for pasture-raised there.

21:56 This is one I've been kind of confused on what to look for ideally,

21:59 you find a lot of organic pork.

22:02 But talk about the specifics there...

22:04 and how much good quality pork there actually is.

22:06 Oh, the pork industry, it's really hard.

22:09 And you almost never find pastured pork out there in stores or anywhere, really.

22:16 And the thing if you look at that ratio of omega- 6 to 3 again,

22:20 which a lot of my research has focused on, is it

22:23 can be like 30 to 1 in pork that is traditionally fed...

22:27 Now, we used to work with a pork farmer and he did

22:30 his own experiment on this to see how low he could get that ratio...

22:35 because chickens, pork or pigs will eat a little bit of grain.

22:40 But he took a very specific breed, the Berkshires,

22:43 and then he put them on grass, on 50% grass and some grain...

22:47 or on mostly grain.

22:49 And he took that 30 to 1 down to 15 to 1 and then eventually,

22:53 to 5 to 1 with the pork eating...

22:55 only grass.

22:56 And so yeah, again, they're a reflection of what they're eating

23:00 and if you put them on pasture it changes the nutritional profile...

23:05 So I think pastured pork, that's what you look for.

23:09 It's really hard to find.

23:10 But yeah, organic animals aren't necessarily eating grass...

23:14 When it comes to cows.

23:15 They have to be on grass 120 days of the year

23:18 and they can get organic corn and soy feed,

23:21 which is what happens in a lot of these more organic scenarios.

23:26 Now they do— restrict antibiotics...

23:28 It's going to be and there is third-party verification.

23:31 So there are really good things about organic certification.

23:34 But in terms of what the animals are eating, organic corn and soy and grains is

23:39 definitely in the equation and can definitely...

23:42 impact the nutritional profile.

23:44 For somebody who is eating some of these foods that are higher in linoleic acid,

23:49 whether it be organic eggs, organic pork, organic chicken, et cetera.

23:56 Do you feel that eating extra omega-3s to rebalance that equation,

24:01 omega-3, omega-6, is part of the solution?

24:05 Absolutely, I think it can be.

24:06 If you're somewhere and you cannot access any other type of animal product,

24:11 that is something that I would definitely do.

24:14 And I would also take out seed oils from my diet.

24:17 I would look at the other omega-6 rich

24:19 foods that you're consuming and definitely reduce them because...

24:23 that is— a balance.

24:25 And if you're eating a lot of omega-6s,

24:27 they essentially out-compete those omega-3s.

24:30 And...

24:31 it's really interesting is "van Vliet" did a study

24:34 on this too where he looked at the omega-3 content...

24:37 of the red blood cells and the plasma in people and then changed...

24:41 the animal products they were eating,

24:43 whether they were fully pastured or conventional.

24:47 And I think that they started with a 9 to 1 ratio

24:50 in the blood and it went all the way down below a 5 to 1,

24:53 when they were eating just...

24:55 pasture-raised products.

24:56 So that is one lever to reduce that ratio.

24:59 But it isn't the only one.

25:01 And he did not restrict seed oils in that study.

25:04 But I have a feeling if he did, I think they could see similar benefits.

25:08 And especially with supplementation with omega-3

25:10 and just regular fish consumption.

25:12 I've gotten a little bit obsessed with eating herring.

25:16 I'm telling you, if I eat herring, there's this.

25:18 Is it called "Harbor Bay?" Do you ever-— eat herring?

25:22 It's been a while, but it is something I remember finding decent in the past.

25:27 Yeah,— I think it's "Harbor Bay" or something like that.

25:30 They come in as— canned herring.

25:32 And herring is one of the most omega-3 fatty acid-rich foods.

25:35 And it's like a light turns on for me when I eat it.

25:38 It's got "B12." It's got— 2 to 3 grams,

25:40 in this 130-gram serving that I'm having.

25:43 But yeah, so having fish...

25:45 regularly, anchovies, sardines, mackerel, herring, salmon, these smaller fish,

25:50 regular is just another really great option if you have that availability...

25:54 But yeah, there's many levers...

25:56 that you can pull and it doesn't mean you have to eat

25:59 the perfect animal products every single time or— you can throw your hands up.

26:04 There's a lot of things you could do.

26:07 Before, when we were talking about beef, you mentioned...

26:10 the grain-fed versus grass-finished.

26:12 And when it comes to omega-3s, it's three times higher in the grass-finished.

26:18 Just to give an idea, very high level, compare that to fish in the omega-3s.

26:25 Oh, I love this.

26:26 I actually did this for my dissertation.

26:28 So let me think if I can recall the numbers.

26:31 So...

26:32 beef, I believe, had about 50 milligrams per serving.

26:36 So that's way, way lower than fish.

26:39 But then there's certain leaner fish like

26:42 haddock that if you're eating the liver,

26:45 then it would be beef liver would be more on par.

26:49 I think around 200 milligrams.

26:52 Yeah, 50 milligrams.

26:53 But the thing that's important is that we eat a lot more beef.

26:58 59 pounds per person per year and something

27:01 like— 16 pounds of fish per person per year.

27:05 And so I remember my research it was if

27:08 you eat grass-fed beef every time for those 59 pounds,

27:12 you're gonna have about 13 grams of omega-3s

27:15 and about 5 grams if you ate the grain-fed beef.

27:19 So-— almost 10 grams extra in omega-3s.

27:22 But eating fish is gonna move the needle far faster.

27:26 If you're able to eat fish and you have access to fish,

27:30 I highly encourage fish, the bigger lever, obviously.

27:34 But because we're eating a lot of beef more consistently,

27:38 I still think it's also an important addition because not everyone has access

27:43 and not everyone wants to eat herring out of a can like I do.

27:47 So I think they're both important.

27:49 "Haha." One of my favorite products you guys

27:51 have over at "Paleovalley" is the fish roe.

27:53 Talk about omega-3s in there.

27:55 And then I'm curious because normally fish oil's kept in the fridge, Oh.

28:00 and there's all this talk about oxidation.

28:02 Because it's a product that's dried, how well-preserved are they?

28:03 Oh yeah.

28:06 "Jesse," I'm so excited that you asked about this because literally on Tuesday,

28:11 we launch our newest edition of that product.

28:14 Now, I loved the fish roe because at "Paleovalley," we're all about whole foods.

28:18 And so many fish oils rancid.

28:20 They come from farm-raised fish.

28:22 They're— sometimes made from ethyl ester forms, triglyceride forms.

28:26 So there's a lot of— heavy metals, other contaminants.

28:31 The fish oil industry is such a Wild West.

28:34 And I think that's why the trials in fish oil are inconsistent.

28:39 But I think the benefits of fish are very consistent.

28:42 Nobody doubts that.

28:44 And so what we decided to use is fish roe because we're all about how do you

28:49 find the foods that no one can access

28:52 that have really unique healing properties and make them accessible?

28:56 And so it's just dried fish eggs, freeze-dried.

28:59 And so they're very well-preserved.

29:01 But what our second iteration is this herring fish oil.

29:05 Now, it comes again from fish eggs, and then it has also sardines and anchovies.

29:09 And why we upgraded was for a few reasons.

29:12 A, we can have a very predictable amount of omega-3s because, formerly,

29:16 if you have the fish roe and then you freeze-dry the whole egg,

29:19 you're going to get a lot of protein,

29:21 you're going to get "B12," you're going to get this vast array of nutrients,

29:26 but you're going to get a smaller absolute amount of omega-3s,

29:29 which I don't necessarily think is a bad thing because I love whole foods.

29:34 But a lot of people were looking for something a little

29:37 more consistent and a little something that could help raise their levels.

29:41 And so by doing the fish roe oil, the herring oil, we were able to do that.

29:46 The second reason is the phospholipid form.

29:48 So when you look at roe,

29:50 that's what's really interesting about roe and krill, this is true of...

29:55 when you look at fish.

29:56 Most of the time, you're going to get the omega-3s in the triglyceride form.

30:00 It's kind of nerdy, but three fatty acid, glycerol backbone.

30:04 But the phospholipid form is different.

30:06 It's like two fatty acids, phosphate group,

30:08 and then this choline or some other type of nutrient.

30:12 And these are membrane fatty acids.

30:14 And these— forms of omega-3s are actually very easy to get in the brain.

30:18 They become your cell membranes,

30:20 and they've been shown to have preferential access to the brain.

30:24 So the roe has those types,

30:25 those phospholipid forms of those omega-3s, which I think is really exciting.

30:30 And the other thing I loved about this is.

30:32 Have you ever heard of specialized pro-resolving mediators?

30:35 No...

30:36 Tell me about them.

30:37 Oh, "Jesse," I'm so excited.

30:39 So— I think this was in the 1990s,

30:42 "Charles Serhan," he's Harvard, and he discovered that.

30:46 So we have "EPA" and "DHA," the omega-3 fatty acids, the longer-chain forms.

30:50 But what they discovered is there's these other compounds,

30:55 what they called pro-resolving mediators.

30:58 Then, it's kind of like the grandchildren if you look

31:01 at this, of "EPA" and "DHA" are these specialized pro-resolving mediators.

31:06 Because it's things like resolvins, protectins, maresins,

31:09 and these compounds are the ones actually turning off the inflammatory response.

31:14 So it isn't the "EPA" and the "DHA,"

31:16 they found out it's the pro-resolving mediators.

31:19 So now, they don't turn it off like

31:22 an ibuprofen or a "COX" inhibitor would turn off.

31:25 They just help it to be resolved in a healthy, balanced way.

31:29 And so these pro-resolving mediators are found

31:34 in this omega-3 fish roe oil as well.

31:37 And the other thing I love about

31:39 it is— there's international standards for oxidation,

31:43 and you want it below five.

31:45 Now, when you look at a lot of fish oils on the market,

31:50 it's way higher than that usually in a lot of cases.

31:53 And so this company is very careful and keeps it below— a three,

31:58 well below international standards and below

32:01 even European standards for mercury content

32:04 because it's coming from fish eggs and small fish and fish in Norway.

32:09 So fish roe, is one of those untapped gold mines,

32:13 especially if you're concerned with "DHA,"

32:16 which is very important for the health

32:19 of your retina and also for the health of your brain and for neuroprotection.

32:24 And I have both genes for Alzheimer's,

32:27 and so I'm very clued-in and I know that certain people,

32:31 there's research to suggest that genotype where we have both "ApoE4"

32:36 gene alleles that we might need that "DHA" form in phospholipids,

32:40 specifically to get in there and protect the health of our brain.

32:45 But if you're going to eat fish you just have

32:48 access to fish roe and you want to eat it,

32:50 it is another one of those nature's multivitamins, just like organ meats.

32:54 And I think that more people would benefit from consuming it.

32:58 All right, so new product coming out, I wasn't aware.

33:01 Is this going to be a liquid kept in the fridge?

33:03 And then two, Yep.

33:05 is this replacing the product I was talking about?

33:06 Yeah.

33:07 It is because it's just more consistent,

33:10 it's a higher dose, it's more consistent.

33:13 And— like I said, it contains those pro-resolving mediators,

33:17 and we can just be more, when the batches vary, when it's a whole food,

33:22 it varies and people just liked a little bit more consistency.

33:26 And yes, you can keep it in the refrigerator,

33:29 you don't need to, but because it is in a bottle

33:32 and it is in a capsule that— it's carefully protected and processed,

33:36 and so that is not going to receive a lot of contact with oxygen and light.

33:41 But yes, if you want to keep it

33:43 in the refrigerator too,— that's never a bad way to go.

33:45 With the old product, as you talk about the regularity of the omega-3s,

33:50 I don't believe it said omega-3s on the nutrition label there.

33:54 And that's why I was curious.

33:55 I assumed I was getting them,

33:57 but I assume this new product will tell you the amount of omega-3s Yeah.

34:02 you're getting per serving.

34:03 Yeah.

34:04 Yeah, and that's the cool thing.

34:05 So we did do testing.

34:06 So the old fish roe had about 200 milligrams,

34:08 but people were like, what about this other fish oil?

34:11 It has 4 grams, you know what I mean?

34:12 Or it has a gram.

34:14 So why would I take this?

34:16 And it's because of the other nutrients that it also contained.

34:18 But people wanted something a little more specific.

34:21 So it's going to have about a— 1,000 milligrams, a little over one gram.

34:26 700 of those roughly,

34:27 are coming from "DHA." So it's a "DHA" dominant form because

34:31 we really wanted the brain to be our area of focus.

34:35 But then it also has "EPA." So "EPA" is that another cell

34:39 membrane that kind of leads

34:41 to the production of less-inflammatory signaling molecules.

34:45 And so that's going to have about,

34:47 180 milligrams of "EPA." And then also "DPA." This is

34:52 another omega-3 fatty acid that you don't often hear about.

34:56 50 milligrams of "DPA." A total of about a gram.

35:00 Cool.

35:01 All right, well, we've gone over the food labeling in good detail.

35:03 We know what to look for now.

35:06 Yeah.

35:06 100% grass-finished, or just grass-finished.

35:10 Grass-fed isn't enough.

35:11 Yeah.

35:12 Let's talk about American-made and the deception and what some

35:18 companies are doing importing different meats and then labeling them...

35:22 what we would consider incorrectly.

35:25 "Jesse," this is such an important issue.

35:27 So there's this illusion of choice whenever you go into a grocery store.

35:33 And the truth is there's four companies

35:35 in the meat industry that own 85% of the processing.

35:39 It's a highly, highly consolidated market.

35:43 And so two of them are coming from outside the United States.

35:49 So "JBS" is a Brazilian company.

35:52 "Marfrig," "National Beef" also has Brazilian influence.

35:56 And then we have the chicken industry...

35:59 or the pork industry.

36:01 "Smithfield" and China.

36:02 So anyway, we have these companies who could be

36:06 importing meat and— as of before January of 2026,

36:09 now this is changing it's called "COOL" labeling, Country of Origin Labeling.

36:15 So before this, you could bring...

36:17 a product into America and simply process it and at some

36:20 processing facility and then label it Product of the United States.

36:24 But thankfully, a lot of people...

36:26 changed that, worked really hard to get that changed.

36:30 Because what that does is undercuts American family farmers.

36:34 And it allows bigger corporations to import meat from wherever

36:36 they want and then prioritize it at their facilities...

36:40 and then label it as Product of America.

36:42 But the thing to remember about it is this is still voluntary labeling.

36:46 So companies do not have to tell you where their meat is coming from.

36:50 And so it's important if you have the bandwidth and the resources...

36:53 and it matters to you, which I think it should,

36:56 because we see how vulnerable we are, like during the pandemic.

36:59 And...

36:59 if we have four companies controlling the meat supply and then

37:02 one of them goes down or a processing facility goes down,

37:05 we're in a very vulnerable position.

37:07 So I really am a champion of this...

37:09 this concept of food sovereignty.

37:11 Have you heard of that?

37:12 Yeah.

37:12 Talk more about it.

37:14 Yeah.

37:14 Yeah.

37:15 So food sovereignty is just like

37:16 we need bio culturally appropriate and regionally

37:21 appropriate food systems that are in the control of the people in that region.

37:27 It's then...

37:27 that we can meet our needs within our community...

37:31 and have a very sustainable...

37:33 and reliable food supply.

37:35 And the people in other countries are not going

37:37 to care as much about what's happening to your soil...

37:40 and your water...

37:41 and your land as you would in your own community.

37:44 So we're outsourcing the control of our food supply to people,

37:48 "CEOs" in far-off countries.

37:49 And I think that's a really scary thing.

37:52 So if we can look at where is this coming from?

37:55 Is it...

37:55 coming from China?

37:56 Is it coming from -Mexico or Canada?

37:59 Not Mexico so much anymore, but Canada.

38:02 And prioritize the American family farmers.

38:04 I think we can build those little hubs,

38:07 those bioregional food hubs that we need in order to have this...

38:11 freedom of our food supply.

38:13 And that's essentially what food sovereignty is.

38:16 Early in the conversation, you quickly mentioned anxiety in your past.

38:20 I think now is a good time to jump into your story.

38:24 Let's talk about leading up to that, what your diet and lifestyle was like.

38:29 Mmhmm.

38:30 And I know "IBS" was also part of your story.

38:31 So let's start there.

38:32 Hmmm.

38:32 Yeah, I was a child...

38:36 who starting at about the age of 10, digestive issues and just bloating.

38:40 And I would wake up in the middle of the night in pain.

38:43 And one time I had my mom take me to the emergency room.

38:47 And then they told me, you have gas.

38:49 And I was like, but it just feels...

38:51 so much more severe than that.

38:53 And no doctor really knew what to do with me.

38:56 And so I just kind of continued on until high school.

38:59 And I took some "Beano" and tried to relax

39:02 because that's what they told me to do.

39:04 And then when I got into my teens,

39:06 I didn't realize it then but there's this profound gut-brain connection.

39:11 And so my unaddressed digestive issues started to manifest in other ways,

39:16 on my skin, as anxiety, sometimes even depression.

39:20 And...

39:20 eventually just in...

39:22 coping, in how I choose to cope with- both

39:25 the physical pain I was in and then the emotional...

39:28 what just felt like lack of control I had over my emotional self as well.

39:33 So then I got into substances and just tried to kind

39:37 of numb it all out and my life just kind of spiraled.

39:40 And eventually,— I didn't live with my parents when I graduated high school.

39:45 It just...

39:46 wasn't a good period of life for me.

39:48 But fortunately, I was able to go to college because I love learning, still do.

39:53 Learning and dance kind of carried me through.

39:55 And then I met my husband.

39:56 And that's when my story really changed because my husband's a problem solver.

40:00 That is his gift to the world.

40:02 And...

40:02 like, no, no, when he moved in, he's like, you're suffering.

40:06 You make it look pretty good because you have a good job.

40:09 I was working for "Tracy Anderson" as a celebrity fitness trainer.

40:13 Always fit.

40:14 But definitely not well.

40:15 Definitely really struggling.

40:16 And he said, we have digestive issues.

40:20 Let's check our food.

40:21 People on the internet in 2007 were looking

40:23 at food as a potential fix for digestive issues,

40:27 which sounded absurd to me because I'd been to all the doctors.

40:31 But we changed— my diet.

40:32 And all we did was take out processed foods.

40:34 We went to the Pasadena Farmers Market every week.

40:37 We got high-quality animal products.

40:39 We got fruits and vegetables.

40:41 At that time, I was even eating this sourdough bread from the farmers market.

40:45 But it was really just that shift to whole foods that my digestive

40:50 issues were gone in about two weeks and totally gone in about 30 days.

40:54 And then we got even more into it.

40:55 Started fermenting our own vegetables.

40:58 We brought in the bone broth.

40:59 And then we didn't have those crazy

41:02 weekends where we just ate whatever we wanted.

41:05 And we were good for days.

41:07 We really kind of took a period of healing and more in-depth discovery.

41:13 And that's when my mental health started to shift too, in really profound ways.

41:17 And when I finally realized my mental health was tied to— how much

41:22 carbohydrate was in my diet that was another really profound level of stability.

41:29 It was just kind of like this noise

41:31 and this kind of buzzing that I had always dealt with.

41:34 It just— turned off.

41:35 And I was just like, whoa.

41:38 This is a really different place to experience life from.

41:42 And I do think I don't do the keto diet necessarily,

41:45 because I'm always kind of doing the least I need to, because

41:49 I feel like maybe because I'm "ApoE4" for Alzheimer's maybe later there will

41:54 come a day when I'm going to have to test my ketones

41:57 and I'm going to have to get in that 1 to 3 millimolar range.

42:00 But right now, I live in a low

42:02 carbohydrate area and that really works well for me.

42:05 So gut issues improve quickly.

42:08 Mental health took a bit longer.

42:11 What was the timeline on the mental health improvement?

42:11 Yep.

42:14 Yeah, so I think it was probably about a year.

42:17 It was probably around a year before I realized, wow just wow.

42:24 I'm not having these crashes at night,

42:25 because I would go and I would work and I would come home and I would cry,

42:29 and I would have anxiety and-— it was just a real struggle.

42:33 The ups and downs of my day were just so laborious.

42:36 It took so much of my energy just to kind of bring myself out of that cycle.

42:41 And so, yeah, after a year, I started realizing, I don't need to nap anymore.

42:46 I'm not crashing at night anymore.

42:47 And then I have-— all this energy for should I go back to school?

42:51 I wasn't managing anymore.

42:53 I all of a sudden had this abundance of energy and this vitality.

42:56 But, yeah, that took about a year.

42:58 And that's kind of when I decided,

42:59 because I had gone on tour with "Jennifer Lopez."

43:02 It was one of my last assignments when I

43:04 worked for "Tracy Anderson." And I started to kind

43:07 of backslide a little bit because you're traveling so much.

43:10 And so I realized, I have to go back

43:12 and fully understand this mental health transformation that I just had.

43:16 And so that's why I went back to school and got my Master's initially.

43:20 So part of your journey was bringing carbs down.

43:23 It sounds like that was tied to the improvement in mental health.

43:24 Mmhmm.

43:27 You're not in ketosis right now, but over the years, Mmhmm.

43:32 have you experimented with ketosis at all for shorter periods?

43:35 Carnivore, vegan, Mmhmm.

43:37 any of the extremes?

43:38 Mmhmm.

43:38 Mmhmm.

43:38 I would say as a youngster, I kind of was living in a vegan-adjacent area.

43:44 I didn't avoid animal products because of moral,

43:47 ethical, or even nutritional reasons.

43:49 It was just something I wasn't drawn to.

43:51 I wanted to eat bread and cheese and candy.

43:54 And as a dancer, ballerina, who was taught you just have to eat

43:59 as few calories as possible and essentially take ginseng,

44:03 eat lettuce, and smoke cigarettes.

44:06 I did that.

44:07 Not in a good way.

44:09 That's not a healthy vegan diet.

44:11 I get that, but that didn't work for me.

44:14 But it was when I brought back my animal protein we just really

44:18 started focusing on that when my husband and I cleaned up our diet.

44:23 And I do think the carbs was one part

44:25 and the highly bioavailable nutrients in animal products was another.

44:30 Coming out of the dance world,

44:32 I was probably deficient in many, many nutrients that my body needed.

44:36 And especially adding organ meats in, that made

44:39 me feel like a totally different person.

44:41 And that's why that was another one of our products too.

44:45 Now I haven't gone fully carnivore.

44:47 I haven't because I feel really good.

44:48 And like I said, it's not that I don't think there might be

44:52 a season for me where that is possible or I might want to try that.

44:56 But right now, I'm pretty in tune with my body and if I go

45:00 on vacation and I'll do maybe a carnivore day or two where I eat meat,

45:05 eggs, and fermented veggies.

45:05 I'm always eating the fermented veggies.

45:07 Those do really well for me.

45:09 And the bone broth.

45:10 Sometimes I'll do a bone broth fast.

45:12 Two days just eating bone broth.

45:14 But I don't necessarily consider that like me being on carnivore.

45:18 They're just kind of a reset that I do.

45:20 But for me, my husband on the other hand does really well

45:23 with a lot of animal products— being the center of his diet.

45:27 He thrives that way.

45:28 Very little vegetables for him.

45:29 But for me, I am a person who could probably

45:33 do a healthy vegan or vegetarian diet and do pretty well.

45:37 I don't think I will, because I feel so good having both.

45:41 I think I'm more of that balanced phenotype.

45:44 I like 50% fruits and vegetables.

45:47 Actually, vegetables...

45:48 maybe 20% fruit, and then some animal products.

45:51 But...

45:53 yeah, I do think that as I get older, and I'm having my mom do this now

45:57 because I'll probably do more in-depth testing around ketones.

46:01 I have done it in the past.

46:03 I have done it in the past and experimented with it...

46:06 along with fasting.

46:08 And I like it a lot.

46:09 Once I got past 40, I started doing less of that, less of the more extreme

46:14 things for now because I can feel my hormones

46:17 are shifting and I'm just having to recalibrate.

46:20 And so I like to kind of just be a little more balanced at that time.

46:24 But yeah, I would definitely— move in that direction if

46:27 I start to notice a decline in my mental health...

46:31 or other indicators that maybe my body could use a different tool at this time.

46:36 As somebody who is still...

46:38 consuming...

46:38 a significant amount of plants,

46:40 how do you think about the whole plant toxin talk?

46:43 Things like phytates, oxalates, lectins, we could go on and on and on.

46:48 Is that something you're concerned about?

46:50 And if so, is there anything you do in preparation...

46:55 to tame those down?

46:57 You know what?

46:58 Luckily, I'm not a person, I honestly have almost zero digestive concerns now.

47:03 And I think that came from a lot of-— years.

47:06 This is my 13th year about really...

47:08 paying attention to the quality of my diet and what I'm consuming.

47:13 For me personally, it isn't a concern.

47:15 But I do eat a lot of fermented foods and I don't eat grains.

47:18 I still don't eat grains and I don't eat a lot of beans.

47:22 So those ones that have higher levels.

47:24 But I've never had to do nightshades or worry about specific vegetables.

47:28 That hasn't ever been a territory that I have had

47:31 to wade into, though I do think for some people,

47:34 definitely I think it matters for certain people, nightshades,

47:37 joint issues, people with a degree of gut dysfunction.

47:41 Yeah, sometimes cutting out vegetables maybe even all of them

47:45 for a period of time can be incredibly healing.

47:48 It's just not the path that I took.

47:50 But I'm obsessed with fermented foods.

47:53 And I think if you can at least

47:55 get some of those fermented foods into your diet,

47:57 if you're struggling with all vegetables that could be a really great

48:01 place to go if you're trying to get some fiber back in.

48:05 Also, there was a "Sonnenberg" trial.

48:07 Did you hear about the fermented food trial?

48:10 Tell me about it.

48:11 It sounds familiar.

48:12 I know "Sonnenberg." Yeah, yeah, yeah.

48:14 Not personally, but I know of his work.

48:17 Of his work, yeah, yeah.

48:18 I just read their book, and what they did was they took people and ramped

48:22 up either fiber in their diet or fermented foods.

48:24 And I think they eventually got to six servings

48:27 of fermented foods a day, which is a lot.

48:29 Which is something like one of my goals,

48:32 which I never achieve, but I can do three.

48:34 I try to do one per meal.

48:35 What they found was, in terms of both microbial diversity

48:40 and the reduction of 19 different inflammatory markers,

48:43 fermented foods was far more powerful than fiber alone.

48:48 So for me, my priorities are high-quality animal products,

48:51 fish and ferments, and then greens.

48:54 I do a lot of the greens too.

48:57 And I just really pay attention to my body.

48:59 If I noticed a problem with those vegetables, I would definitely pull them out.

49:04 I wouldn't be afraid to.

49:06 But it isn't something I think everybody needs to do.

49:09 But I also think some people could benefit, for sure.

49:12 Okay, so fermented foods are a priority.

49:13 You're trying to have them at every meal.

49:15 Mmhmm.

49:16 Mmhmm.

49:17 What about probiotics?

49:18 When it comes to gut health, is that something you consume...

49:21 or how do you feel about them?

49:23 Mmhmm.

49:24 "Jesse," that's a great question.

49:26 So I have in the pas.

49:27 I think, who is it?

49:29 "Just Thrive," I've used theirs, and I know they have really good quality

49:33 evidence behind them their ability to heal leaky gut,

49:35 at least in the trial that they conducted.

49:37 So I have in the past used that.

49:39 I've also used one called "Seed."

49:41 But fermented foods contain a lot more probiotics,

49:44 and I am always just this food-first person,

49:47 especially because of my research and realizing there's just

49:50 so much more to food than meets the eye.

49:52 And so if I can avoid supplements, I often do.

49:55 And so right now, no, I'm just on the fermented food bandwagon.

49:59 I don't take them.

50:00 My digestive system works very well.

50:02 But I do think that they can be helpful for certain people,

50:06 especially if you're not going to eat fermented foods.

50:09 If that's just not something you can do

50:12 and you seem to have some sort of dysbiosis, you've been taking antibiotics.

50:17 Bringing in probiotics could be very, very helpful for the health,

50:20 for your immune system, for digestive function.

50:23 There's something that we gave our son.

50:25 I remember as a youngster, I think he was starting to get rashes,

50:28 and so we brought in this little...

50:31 You could just dip your finger in it and give it to him.

50:34 So probiotics are something I've used throughout my life, just not right now.

50:38 I haven't been using them.

50:39 Okay.

50:40 As somebody who's not big into supplements,

50:42 "Paleovalley" has a group of products that are supplement-like,

50:46 but they're whole foods.

50:48 I'm not sure if you guys have, I can't think of any off the top

50:52 of my head that are just purely an extract supplement.

50:57 But what I'm getting to with all this, with the diet you've shared,

51:00 is there any supplements that complement that, that you're taking?

51:04 Ooh.

51:05 Outside of our "Paleovalley" ones?

51:07 Well, share those too.

51:08 Which again, things like organs and your vitamin C is even a whole food.

51:12 So again, it's kind of a gray area.

51:13 But share those and beyond, if there is any.

51:14 Yeah.

51:14 Yeah.

51:17 Yes.

51:17 So I love that question.

51:19 And yeah, like you said, I just think that whole foods are.

51:22 You can't really out-supplement a bad diet.

51:24 And so if we can get whole foods to be the first lever you pull

51:27 and then bring in the really nutrient-dense whole

51:29 foods that most people don't have access to.

51:31 That's what we've tried to do with our product line,

51:34 with our mushroom supplements,

51:35 our "Essential C" supplement, our "Organ Complex." So no,

51:38 that's what I take, and fish roe.

51:39 I don't take supplements on a daily basis now.

51:43 I will experiment.

51:44 We've been doing some fun podcasts with Doctor

51:48 "Joel Brind" on glycine and "GlyNAC." There's

51:51 been this whole thing about "GlyNAC." Have

51:52 you talked about "GlyNAC" on the show yet?

51:55 May have touched on it, but I want to go deep into glycine and "GlyNAC," so...

51:59 take it and run.

51:59 Yeah.

51:59 Yeah.

52:01 Well, yeah, those are things that I've experimented with.

52:04 And for short periods of time,

52:06 I'll bring something in because I notice things profoundly.

52:09 There's also herbs that I take, so I'll take that back.

52:12 Ashwagandha.

52:13 I'll bring in sometimes ginseng, I'll bring in sometimes bacopa.

52:17 I do have herbs for my brain sometimes.

52:21 And sometimes I'll even have— low-dose lithium, because my aunt was bipolar.

52:26 And I've just read a lot of good things about

52:30 lithium and the health of the brain and how that works.

52:33 So yeah, there are a few,

52:35 mostly herbs that I'll bring in every once in a while, but it's very rare.

52:40 I really try to.

52:41 I know I want my body to get the nutrients in the dose

52:44 and the kind of form with all the synergistic nutrients and otherwise.

52:48 I think sometimes if you take too many isolated synthetic supplements,

52:53 like "Robyn Openshaw" actually wrote a really fascinating book

52:56 about this called "Toxic Daily." Have you heard of this?

53:00 No...

53:00 I know her, but not the book.

53:02 Okay.

53:03 Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was really interesting.

53:04 So I just read it and it's about kind of like the ties between

53:08 many supplement companies and pharmaceuticals that we

53:10 always look at these isolated and synthetic multivitamins,

53:13 as the same or an insurance policy.

53:17 And I think for some people they could be,

53:19 but they're also not always made in a way that aligns with nature.

53:23 They come from petrochemicals.

53:24 There's this dose compression, so the doses can be really high.

53:28 They can have other things in them.

53:29 We get it.

53:30 But she wrote that fascinating book to say that it could potentially accumulate.

53:37 And become— a burden for our body and have

53:39 doses that are way out of range and which

53:41 could cause a massive disruption in the balance

53:44 of our minerals or the nutrients or the vitamins.

53:47 And so I think that's an interesting thing to consider.

53:51 What are we taking?

53:52 What are we really taking it for?

53:53 Are we noticing a health benefit?

53:54 And yeah, if you don't have access to high-quality food, a multivitamin...

53:58 there's been trials to suggest that that can be helpful,

54:00 especially as you age, maybe as you're older.

54:02 And you don't want to eat as much.

54:04 And your digestive capacity might be limited.

54:06 But I do, I hope that we all really question what are

54:09 we actually taking and what are we noticing from what we're taking,

54:13 and is this as close to nature as we can possibly get?

54:17 But if you want to go into glycine.

54:19 I want to just jump in before we leave supplements here.

54:22 Well, first, Like we did for labeling,

54:23 when it comes to food is there any guidance

54:26 in that realm for somebody that wants to take certain supplements?

54:28 Things to look for on the label, things that we want to avoid?

54:30 Yeah.

54:34 Yeah, I think when it comes to supplements, I'm a food-based girl.

54:39 There's many different ways these food-based vitamins can be made.

54:43 They can be a food-based powder.

54:46 You take a food and then you dry it down.

54:48 You freeze-dry or something.

54:49 That's essentially what we do.

54:51 There's also food-based supplements that can go...

54:53 like you have a food powder but then

54:55 you add synthetically derived nutrients from it.

54:58 You can get— petrochemicals is where B vitamins come from.

55:01 Vitamin D can come from the oil on lamb skin, whatever.

55:04 There's many different places these nutrients can be

55:07 derived from, some a lot more natural than others.

55:10 But then they can be added to these food

55:12 powders and then you can grow nutrients.

55:15 You can give these organisms certain food, yeast,

55:18 and then they kind of synthesize these vitamins,

55:20 and then the vitamins are separated from them or not.

55:23 So I think food-based is a great thing to look for, but there's many

55:27 different ways that they can be made and synthetic vitamins can still be added.

55:32 And so if that matters to you,

55:34 I would look for something that's a little bit closer to nature,

55:38 a food-based vitamin.

55:39 And I would stay away from vitamins that have just the cheapest forms,

55:44 like cyanocobalamin, when it comes to methylcobalamin might be a little

55:49 bit more absorbable and folate rather than folic acid.

55:53 And when you have the other ingredients,

55:55 you just want them to be as small a list as possible.

56:00 And so yeah, just food-based and...

56:04 not dyes and other additives that are completely unnecessary.

56:07 And then trying to get active forms whenever possible.

56:11 And calcium oxide sometimes is less bioavailable.

56:14 And so looking into just the more bioavailable forms,

56:16 that's what I would be concerned with.

56:19 And if you can, organic and...

56:21 all of that I think is a good way to go for the vitamins.

56:24 But for me I...

56:24 don't do a lot of that, like I said.

56:26 And so if you're going to do a whole food powder,

56:29 like an organ complex, grass-fed, grass-finished,

56:32 you don't want other additives in there.

56:34 Vitamin C, 90% is made from genetically modified corn.

56:38 And for me I'd rather get mine from whole foods.

56:40 And so organic amla berry, camu camu,

56:43 acerola cherry, and then when it comes to mushrooms,

56:46 I don't know if you've had this discussion at all.

56:50 About mycelium and the fruiting body and all of that.

56:54 It's been a while, actually.

56:55 So— let's talk about it.

56:56 Yeah so— a lot of mushrooms are actually mycelium, Yes.

57:00 which is the root structure rather than the fruiting body.

57:02 And a lot of the literature historically has

57:05 been done on the compounds in the fruiting body,

57:07 because that's the actual mushroom.

57:09 But it's really easy to grow mycelium on grain, a lot more profitable.

57:13 But the problem is you can't separate the...

57:16 root structure from the grain,

57:17 and so then it all becomes part of the final product...

57:20 And...

57:21 this guy named "Jeff Chilton" has done testing and found that up to 50%

57:25 of the final product in the mushroom product can actually just be grain.

57:29 And so you have those bioactive compounds which make a mushroom...

57:32 so powerful, but if they're watered down,

57:35 that's something you want to, want to be mindful of.

57:37 And so when it comes to mushroom supplements,

57:39 you want to make sure that it's coming

57:41 from the fruiting body rather than the mycelium.

57:44 Now there are compounds in the mycelium that can be beneficial.

57:47 I think the bigger problem is the grain,

57:49 that you don't necessarily know how much of that product is...

57:52 just grain rather than an actual fruiting body.

57:54 You mentioned organic there quickly for completeness when it comes to labeling,

58:00 whether it be a whole food supplement or foods.

58:03 How valid is that these days?

58:06 Hmmm.

58:06 I still think that's really important.

58:08 There's problems with the system, obviously.

58:11 And I just did this...

58:12 podcast with Doctor "Stephanie Seneff," and glyphosate,

58:15 it's kind of ubiquitous in our environment, unfortunately...

58:18 But I do think...

58:20 that it's still a really important...

58:22 label and there is that third-party verification...

58:24 And yes, there are some chemicals and pesticides that are approved...

58:28 when it comes to organic, but I still think it's something we need

58:32 to prioritize because we really have to get these chemicals...

58:35 out of our food...

58:36 And Doctor "Seneff "said, and I've heard many people say tha it's literally

58:41 an existential threat if we're killing the microorganisms in the soil...

58:45 that are connecting us to the plants that the animals get,

58:48 that we get if we destroy that, we're in for a very rude awakening.

58:52 And also I interviewed "Dewayne Lee Johnson." Do you know of his story?

58:57 No.

58:57 Tell me about it.

58:59 He was a.

59:00 He was a groundskeeper, and this happened many, many years ago.

59:03 But he was one of the first people

59:05 to sue "Monsanto" because he got non-Hodgkin's lymphoma.

59:08 And when he was trained,

59:09 he was basically taught that glyphosate's safe enough to drink and there...

59:15 was an accident where it did end up

59:17 getting all over his body like a hose burst...

59:20 And he did.

59:21 He developed non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, and he took them to court and he won.

59:25 And he was kind of like a precedent-setting case.

59:28 And so there's been billions of dollars...

59:31 settled for people exposed to these chemicals,

59:34 and also,— tens of thousands of our farm workers exposed...

59:37 to these chemicals.

59:39 So, no, I think organic is...

59:41 very important, more important than ever.

59:43 Is it perfect?

59:44 No...

59:45 But is it still something I think we should prioritize?

59:48 Absolutely.

59:48 And even beyond that going towards regenerative.

59:52 I don't think it's the end-all be-all, but I still think it's important.

59:56 Now that you share that case,

59:57 Doctor "Seneff" was on my show and she shared that as well.

1:00:00 So I know what you're talking about with the glyphosate.

1:00:02 Yeah.

1:00:02 Hmmm.

1:00:03 It's so sad.

1:00:04 And...

1:00:04 he's not the only one.

1:00:06 There's a lot of people waiting in the wings for their day in court.

1:00:09 But then I did hear that "Bayer" just got some sort of immunity,

1:00:14 which is really sad...

1:00:15 because "Monsanto" was acquired by "Bayer." And then

1:00:18 I think that it was just granted an immunity

1:00:20 so that people can no longer sue the makers

1:00:24 of these chemicals or at least "Roundup" for cancer,

1:00:28 which I think is very scary.

1:00:30 So I think this is-— one of those topics and the issues of our generation,

1:00:36 that we just have to find a way to get the chemicals out of our food for sure.

1:00:42 When it comes to glyphosate, what do you do to protect yourself and your family?

1:00:46 Yeah, it's interesting.

1:00:48 Obviously prioritizing organic as much as humanly possible.

1:00:52 It's in our water, it's in our air.

1:00:53 So water filtration, eating organic.

1:00:55 But then also Doctor "Seneff" believes and we did a podcast

1:00:59 about this have you talked to her about her glycine theory?

1:01:02 We did talk about it, but share it here.

1:01:04 Yeah.

1:01:05 Yeah, and it's theoretical.

1:01:06 I want to be clear about that.

1:01:08 This isn't something that you've tested in randomized controlled trials,

1:01:12 but she believes that glyphosate, the molecule,

1:01:14 and glycine, the amino acid that you could find in bone broth protein powder,

1:01:20 bones, collagen, skin...

1:01:21 that glyphosate can substitute for glycine,

1:01:24 and then thus negatively impact the way that our proteins in our body work,

1:01:28 and which can have an entire realm of manifestations.

1:01:32 Because proteins are the workhorses, they are the structural components,

1:01:37 and they do a lot of the work in our bodies.

1:01:39 And so she believes that by flooding our body with glycine,

1:01:43 we can actually displace glyphosate.

1:01:46 And so that's one of her theories.

1:01:48 And it's something I do regularly,

1:01:49 whether or not that's not the only reason I do it,

1:01:52 but that is something that she believes can help.

1:01:55 I've also heard that there's different homeopathic remedies

1:01:58 that I don't necessarily use on a regular basis.

1:02:02 And also, I think the biggest

1:02:04 thing is prioritizing organic and regenerative agriculture,

1:02:06 making sure that those are the things whenever you can,

1:02:10 making sure that you prioritize buying products

1:02:12 from people who are not using the chemicals,

1:02:14 because that's going to change the food system.

1:02:17 Well, we've been dancing around this glycine topic.

1:02:20 Let's dive right in, talk about what it is and why it's important.

1:02:23 Yeah, so I'd always kind of been drawn to glycine.

1:02:26 And you did a podcast with Doctor "Brind." But it's just an amino acid.

1:02:32 And it's a conditionally essential amino acid.

1:02:33 So many people there's this big

1:02:35 conversation about complete and incomplete proteins,

1:02:37 and I think it's very important.

1:02:38 Are these proteins going to build muscle?

1:02:41 Very important.

1:02:42 But what I think is missing is glycine is conditionally essential,

1:02:45 so our body can make it.

1:02:47 But there's a paper, "Meléndez-Hevia" is the author,

1:02:51 in 2009 wrote a paper and suggested that the amount of glycine that we make

1:02:56 is not necessarily tied to the amount

1:02:58 that we need if we're over 100 pounds roughly,

1:03:02 and that we're suffering from what they call a glycine

1:03:05 deficiency syndrome that is causing us to age more rapidly.

1:03:09 Because glycine is important for collagen, for our gut,

1:03:13 for our skin, for the health of our bones.

1:03:16 It also glycine has been shown to help,

1:03:19 and they're believing between 8 and 10 gram deficiency.

1:03:22 So this is not a small deficiency we're dealing with.

1:03:25 It's a massive, multiple gram deficiency potentially that is helping

1:03:29 us or that is causing us to age more rapidly.

1:03:32 So 3 grams of glycine before bed has been shown to help you sleep better.

1:03:37 I've seen this.

1:03:38 I've done a lot of podcasts with Doctor "Brind" about it,

1:03:41 and it is one of the comments I see over and over and over again.

1:03:44 People sleep like a baby.

1:03:46 And if you feel too tired when you sleep, you can take it earlier in the day,

1:03:50 that's just what I've seen from the comments.

1:03:52 And then also, it acts as a calming neurotransmitter in the brain.

1:03:55 So they've done research in schizophrenia very,

1:03:58 very large doses, around 60 gram doses.

1:04:00 So that always kind of piqued my interest

1:04:02 because I'm obviously very clued into mental health,

1:04:05 and my brain was always a little bit on the faster end side of things.

1:04:10 So I've noticed that it helps to calm my brain down.

1:04:12 Metabolic benefits.

1:04:13 I don't know if you've ever done a continuous glucose monitor?

1:04:16 I have, yeah.

1:04:17 And ketones.

1:04:18 Yeah.

1:04:18 Yeah, okay, ketones.

1:04:20 And what I've noticed so profoundly is that when I have bone broth or collagen,

1:04:24 it comes right back down.

1:04:25 No matter where my blood sugar is, it's just a profound dropping.

1:04:29 And they've actually done some trials where

1:04:32 they were able to reverse insulin resistance,

1:04:35 and I think it was five grams three times a day in this particular trial.

1:04:40 And they also reduced inflammation as well.

1:04:43 Well, metabolic benefits, skin health benefits.

1:04:46 But the thing that Doctor "Brind" talks about that I

1:04:49 think is the most fascinating is the potential immunological benefits.

1:04:52 He believes and there's research to suggest,— it wasn't his research initially.

1:04:57 He started in longevity and found out that eating glycine,

1:05:01 instead of restricting methionine, which is in muscle meats,

1:05:05 adding glycine could extend the lifespan of animals in the lab.

1:05:09 And so he thought, that's really interesting.

1:05:12 But what his main book is about is how glycine

1:05:15 can actually create this trigger lock on our immune cells,

1:05:18 specifically on macrophages.

1:05:20 And so where you might get injured,

1:05:23 or you might fall down like he did, hit his head, or get a sunburn.

1:05:29 You might not have that same

1:05:31 excessive inflammatory response because the glycine,

1:05:33 when it's in concentrations that you need that is

1:05:36 more than what you need to build a protein.

1:05:39 So we're talking about different amounts of this nutrient

1:05:43 necessary to keep those immune cells quiet.

1:05:46 What happens is there's these glycine-gated chloride channels,

1:05:50 and the glycine goes in or the chloride goes in and keeps the cell quiet.

1:05:55 It keeps it calm, like a little baby, giving it a pacifier.

1:05:59 And then it just kind of prevents the explosion of these immune molecules,

1:06:03 cytokines, that can create all of that collateral damage.

1:06:07 And so he thinks a lot of us— actually believes and he

1:06:10 has a lot of training in immunology that I don't have,

1:06:14 but this is his belief that inflammation is not a normal response to injury.

1:06:18 That we should have inflammation when we have an infection,

1:06:21 but that we're all becoming inflamed because of insults

1:06:24 that don't actually require the level of inflammatory response.

1:06:28 And he likens, or he believes, that much of that has to do with the fact

1:06:32 that we now throw the bones in the trash,

1:06:34 and we used to throw the bones in our soup.

1:06:37 And we're eating this predominantly muscle-meat,

1:06:39 methionine-rich diet without the counterpart

1:06:41 or it's kind of like sidekick glycine.

1:06:44 And so we're all dealing with this massive inflammation because of it.

1:06:48 And I just have to tell you,

1:06:49 and you did a podcast with him yourself, I don't know if you've seen this.

1:06:54 Hundreds, thousands of comments from people who've actually tried

1:06:57 adding glycine back into their diet and the most profound.

1:07:01 I've never released a podcast that has such

1:07:03 a profound response in terms of people sharing their testimonials.

1:07:08 It was actually pretty exciting to me.

1:07:10 I said this to Doctor "Brind" too, and you touched on it.

1:07:13 The fact that this just makes sense.

1:07:15 We're eating all this muscle meat and we're throwing the bones in the trash,

1:07:20 so we're not getting the proper balance.

1:07:22 As somebody who's consuming quite a bit of animal

1:07:24 products myself and it sounds like you are too.

1:07:27 Mmhmm.

1:07:28 So when I interviewed him, and preparing,

1:07:30 and we were emailing back and forth and discussing it really hit me,

1:07:34 the fact that this is a missing piece for me and I'm sure so many others.

1:07:39 Oh, my gosh.

1:07:40 I just think it's so profound because we're all

1:07:42 being told we need to eat the chicken breasts.

1:07:45 And we need to have all of these really

1:07:47 lean muscle meats that are very methionine-rich.

1:07:50 And there is this cultural conversation that we need these complete proteins.

1:07:56 But I think— that is important.

1:07:58 Building muscle is very important.

1:08:00 It's the key to longevity.

1:08:02 You can't understate its importance.

1:08:04 But inflammatory conditions, oh my god,

1:08:07 like 60% of deaths worldwide are tied to some level of inflammation?

1:08:12 I know statistics are different,

1:08:14 but do you know many people today who don't have some type of inflammation?

1:08:19 It's crazy how ubiquitous the experience of being inflamed is and how

1:08:23 profound that could potentially be for quality of life and the disease burden.

1:08:28 So, yeah, I do think that— I've become obsessed with glycine.

1:08:32 We release so much glycine content because,

1:08:34 like you said,--— the way we eat has changed so dramatically in so many ways,

1:08:39 but I think this is one of the major ones.

1:08:41 I think taking the soup away, taking the bones out, not eating the skin...

1:08:46 And also the way we're feeding animals.

1:08:48 Because when we feed them grain, when they're not grass-fed on pasture,

1:08:53 they lead to less collagen production,

1:08:55 so they're less collagenous meats as well.

1:08:58 So I think multiple factors, but at the end of the day,

1:09:01 if you could bring glycine back into your diet,

1:09:04 bones, oxtail, just these more collagenous cuts,

1:09:06 grass-fed meats, bone broth, collagen, gelatin.

1:09:09 Gelatin if you want a really simple,

1:09:12 cheap way that— you don't have to supplement, make some gelatin gummies.

1:09:16 You just mix with a little fruit juice

1:09:19 and some gelatin and a little bit of honey.

1:09:21 I think in a tablespoon you get 1.5 grams of glycine.

1:09:26 And so in order to meet that glycine gap, you'd need three cups of bone broth,

1:09:33 a few tablespoons of gelatin, collagen will do it.

1:09:36 And even magnesium glycinate,

1:09:37 we talked about that, I don't know if you talked about that in your podcast too.

1:09:41 But you could get it in that as well.

1:09:42 We didn't, but I know about it, yeah.

1:09:44 Yeah, yeah.

1:09:45 So there's lots of different ways,

1:09:46 but I think it's one of the most important things you can do.

1:09:49 And I don't think I really realized it, but back when I was healing my gut,

1:09:53 I did, I brought in a lot of broth.

1:09:54 We were always making broths, we were always making fermented foods.

1:09:57 And I think it's only recently that I started to realize, oh my gosh.

1:10:01 I think that's why I don't have digestive issues.

1:10:04 I think I did a lot of healing there and a lot of calming of this clearly very

1:10:09 inflamed body I was living in that I didn't

1:10:12 necessarily attribute to the glycine or the fermented foods.

1:10:15 But I think they were a huge piece of that puzzle for me.

1:10:18 So, really high level, we want to add in eight to ten grams a day.

1:10:22 And there are supplements we could take.

1:10:23 Yeah.

1:10:24 Yep.

1:10:25 We could make soups if we're going to simmer them for long periods,

1:10:30 bone broth or these foods that are supplement-like,

1:10:34 whether it be collagen, gelatin, bone broth powder.

1:10:36 Yep.

1:10:37 Mmhmm.

1:10:39 Exactly.

1:10:39 Am I missing anything else?

1:10:41 I don't think so.

1:10:42 I think slow cooking we've got to reclaim that art.

1:10:46 At least once a week, put some chuck roast or oxtail.

1:10:50 And plus, it's a very economical, budget-friendly way to eat anyway.

1:10:55 You put them in a crockpot and then you just cook them down, cook them slowly.

1:10:59 That's another really great way to just get that glycine back into your diet.

1:11:03 So, yeah I don't supplement like I said, I'll experiment.

1:11:07 I wanted to experiment with "GlyNAC" because I had heard the buzz about it.

1:11:10 But for the most part, I just try to get my glycine in.

1:11:13 And what I do is just drink it in between meals, rather than having a snack.

1:11:17 I have some bone broth,

1:11:18 and it makes me feel great and keeps my digestive system calm.

1:11:22 And so that's just kind of how I work it in.

1:11:25 And for me, what I do is,

1:11:27 ever since I've been tuned into this, which is relatively new,

1:11:30 I've been using your "Bone Broth Protein," "Paleovalley,"

1:11:34 and getting three scoops of that in per day.

1:11:37 And I feel good about that because it's still a food,

1:11:40 it's not as processed as gelatin, collagen, and it tastes delicious.

1:11:45 Oh, I know.

1:11:46 I'm obsessed.

1:11:46 I think we— started out as a beef stick company,

1:11:49 and we're morphing into this bone broth company because people are

1:11:53 just obsessed with our bone broth that doesn't taste like bone broth.

1:11:57 I think it makes it more accessible

1:11:59 for everybody and just something to look forward to.

1:12:02 One of the pushbacks when it comes to bone broth is contamination,

1:12:07 specifically with lead.

1:12:08 Hmmm.

1:12:09 Mmhmm.

1:12:10 So talk about your bone broth, the testing done there.

1:12:13 Yeah.

1:12:14 And the purity.

1:12:14 Yeah.

1:12:15 So we definitely test for all the heavy metals.

1:12:20 Bones can concentrate heavy metals.

1:12:22 It just— animals are this photograph of the land on which they're raised.

1:12:27 And so if you're not careful and you're not testing,

1:12:30 then you can end up with high levels

1:12:33 of lead and other contaminants— in bone broth.

1:12:35 The other one that's interesting that people don't recognize is pesticides.

1:12:40 So pesticides are often in pastures,

1:12:42 sometimes sprayed on the actual animal themselves.

1:12:46 And so again, pesticides can end up.

1:12:48 And so we test for 60 different pesticides

1:12:50 as well in our bone broth protein powder.

1:12:52 But yeah, you have to be very, very mindful.

1:12:55 All protein powders are kind of notorious for levels of heavy metals

1:12:59 and contaminants because you're taking something

1:13:01 and then you're concentrating it down.

1:13:03 So you want to be very, very,

1:13:05 very careful about where you're sourcing that from.

1:13:08 And they found actually, in one "ConsumerLab" report you probably

1:13:11 talked about it but the plant-based protein

1:13:14 powders are maybe even worse in terms

1:13:16 of heavy metals than the animal-based forms.

1:13:18 So just something to watch out for.

1:13:21 Bottom line, when it comes to "Paleovalley" no lead or very low,

1:13:25 below the limits that you have to worry about?

1:13:27 Yeah.

1:13:28 Very low.

1:13:29 Yeah, exactly, very low.

1:13:31 I don't think you can do no heavy metals.

1:13:34 It's just a natural function of food.

1:13:37 Because those metals are living in the soil,

1:13:39 and to some extent a plant, an animal eventually will take them up.

1:13:43 But yeah, it's about being mindful of the levels

1:13:45 that are present and making sure that they're below those levels.

1:13:48 And that is something we test for.

1:13:50 In tying this back to what you brought up

1:13:53 before with Doctor "Seneff," the idea with the glycine,

1:13:57 what I got from our conversation at least is to flood the body with it

1:14:01 to hopefully prevent the glyphosate from getting

1:14:04 in there and becoming part of our proteins.

1:14:07 Yeah, I think that is a fascinating idea.

1:14:09 I even talked to Doctor "Brind," and I was like,

1:14:12 Doctor "Brind," how would you do this study for Doctor

1:14:15 "Seneff?" And he came up with a really eloquent design,

1:14:18 and I shared it with Doctor "Seneff," and she's

1:14:20 going to try to get that actually tested.

1:14:22 But yeah, I think why not?

1:14:24 For bone broth, I just think it's one of those foods

1:14:27 that has so many benefits even outside of the potential glyphosate,

1:14:30 kind of like keeping glyphosate out of your proteins.

1:14:33 But definitely, if you're someone really tuned into trying

1:14:36 to prevent as much damage from glyphosate as possible, it's a great avenue.

1:14:40 And I do the same thing.

1:14:42 I have two to three servings of bone broth every single day,

1:14:45 and it's improved my sleep.

1:14:47 It makes me feel, like I said, my gut health,

1:14:49 all the things but just a simple thing you can do.

1:14:53 Game changer.

1:14:54 It just makes sense.

1:14:55 Yes, yes.

1:14:56 And people have been talking about it for so long.

1:15:00 I don't know, but sometimes I'm very intellectual,

1:15:04 my mind drives a lot of what I do.

1:15:06 And so now that I understand the research,

1:15:09 it's just become something I never don't do.

1:15:13 How do you feel about dairy for you, your family?

1:15:17 Raw, fermented.

1:15:19 Cheeses.

1:15:19 Bring it all in.

1:15:20 Mmhmm.

1:15:22 What a great question.

1:15:23 I think dairy is a very healing food.

1:15:25 I don't eat it myself.

1:15:27 I'll have cheese every once in a while.

1:15:29 It gives me a runny nose.

1:15:31 I don't think that my body loves it, but my husband and our son, they thrive.

1:15:35 We've got a dairy farm right down the street,

1:15:38 and they even invite him to come milk their cows.

1:15:41 It's raw, it's grass fed, it's grass finished.

1:15:44 We actually get fermented forms too.

1:15:47 Kefir, skyr, they're a staple.

1:15:49 We take yogurt and he puts blueberries in it and we eat it every day.

1:15:54 That's one of the fermented foods.

1:15:56 I think they've actually done trials in yogurt

1:15:58 for college students was able to help reduce social anxiety,

1:16:02 which I think is mind blowing.

1:16:04 So yeah, definitely fermented forms of dairy have a lot of benefits.

1:16:08 And when I do go that route,

1:16:09 I bring in fermented forms when I'm like, I'm going to do a little dairy.

1:16:14 That's what I usually go towards.

1:16:16 But we do a lot of milk in the house too.

1:16:18 We make actually bone broth ice cream.

1:16:21 So we take our bone broth, we take the raw milk and then they use this, I

1:16:25 think it's the "Ninja Creami." Do you have this in Canada?

1:16:28 Never heard of it.

1:16:29 And it makes this.

1:16:30 Okay.

1:16:30 Yeah, it's just this ice cream maker

1:16:32 and it makes this amazing little bone broth.

1:16:34 Also a big fan of cheese.

1:16:36 When I was pregnant I used to eat blocks of cheese.

1:16:38 It was just something my body craved.

1:16:41 And I think especially a grass fed, grass finished raw cheese...

1:16:45 Amazing.

1:16:46 And if you want a little I do goat cheese too.

1:16:50 For people who can't necessarily do the other types of cheese,

1:16:53 goat cheese seems to be easier.

1:16:55 And that's the one that I go towards

1:16:57 only because my body seems to prefer it better.

1:16:59 But again, even more so with the dairy and I

1:17:02 haven't been involved in a trial that looked at this necessarily,

1:17:06 but I've seen "Provenza's" work and Doctor "van Vliet's" work

1:17:09 that the compounds in dairy and cheese change maybe even

1:17:13 more dramatically in the meat itself in terms of these plant-based

1:17:16 compounds being able to be evident in the final product.

1:17:20 So I think that's really interesting too,

1:17:22 why it's really important to source from as much

1:17:25 grass fed and grass finished farms as possible

1:17:27 in order to get those, those plant-based compounds

1:17:30 with all of those different healing properties as possible.

1:17:35 So, yeah, big fan of dairy for other people.

1:17:37 I don't eat a lot of it myself, but I think it's a very important food.

1:17:41 And you see that in literature too.

1:17:43 See this is one of the reasons that we knew that saturated fat across the board

1:17:49 couldn't necessarily be bad because you're going to find

1:17:51 a lot of saturated fat in dairy foods.

1:17:54 And yet you'll see populations who consume a lot of dairy...

1:17:58 They tend to do pretty well, at least in certain trials.

1:18:01 But I also think the way that most dairy is made from a feedlot,

1:18:05 highly processed, homogenized,— heated.

1:18:08 I never did well with that type of dairy.

1:18:10 It wasn't until I really got mindful

1:18:11 of the quality of the dairy grass fed, grass finished,

1:18:14 and raw back in the early days that I was able to tolerate it at all.

1:18:18 And so if you're going to do dairy, be very, very mindful of the quality.

1:18:22 And if traditional dairy doesn't work for you,

1:18:25 that doesn't mean that all dairy won't work for you.

1:18:28 And fermented forms of dairy might be a different layer

1:18:31 that you could bring in if both of those didn't work.

1:18:35 One of the things that's come up a couple times,

1:18:37 and I want to go deeper into with you, is saturated fat.

1:18:41 And it's still being demonized, but most people are talking about it as a whole,

1:18:47 and you've already brought up the different types.

1:18:51 Mmhmm.

1:18:51 Go deeper into that and talk about different types,

1:18:53 different benefits, if there are problematic types.

1:18:54 Mmhmm.

1:18:58 Basically, the 101 on the different types of saturated fat.

1:19:03 Yeah.

1:19:04 So I think that we have all been talking a lot about saturated fats,

1:19:07 but I think the real distinction is— man-made and natural fats.

1:19:11 So we've actually decreased the amount

1:19:13 of saturated fatty acids that we're consuming,

1:19:16 and rates of heart disease haven't gone down.

1:19:19 So I think instead, whereas many of our fats

1:19:22 came from animals back in the early 1900s,

1:19:25 today most of them come from vegetable oils and more of these omega-6,

1:19:30 man-made, highly processed versions of fat.

1:19:33 So when it comes to saturated fat,

1:19:35 it's really interesting because that's a diverse category.

1:19:38 So there's saturated fats like behenic acid or stearic acid,

1:19:42 which are neutral they don't raise your cholesterol

1:19:44 to the same extent that other saturated fats do,

1:19:47 like palmitic acid or myristic acid.

1:19:49 And then there's these longer chain forms like behenic acid or arachidic acid.

1:19:54 They're associated with lower risks of cardiovascular disease.

1:19:57 These are associations.

1:19:58 It's still being explored,

1:20:00 but they're definitely not having the same impact as those other saturated fats.

1:20:04 And then you have pentadecanoic acid,

1:20:06 "C15," "Stephanie Venn-Watson," -which some

1:20:08 people believe because we're not eating

1:20:11 dairy which is the main source of pentadecanoic acid and heptadecanoic acid,

1:20:15 "C17" that we're maybe suffering from certain sort of deficiency syndrome.

1:20:20 Now, again, that's debated,

1:20:21 but it is looking like there's at least the potential

1:20:24 that this will be considered an essential fatty acid.

1:20:27 An essential saturated fatty acid.

1:20:29 So I just think that's really interesting.

1:20:31 And also what we have to consider is a lot of this associative evidence looking

1:20:36 at saturated fat is looking at saturated fatty

1:20:39 acids in the content of an ultra-processed diet.

1:20:43 So are we eating a hamburger with a "Coca-Cola" and a side of fries,

1:20:47 or are we eating a grass fed steak with some broccoli?

1:20:52 Because that is two very different metabolic outcomes.

1:20:54 But it's not because of the saturated fat.

1:20:57 And even back, a few years ago,

1:20:59 the "Journal of the American College of Cardiology" came out

1:21:02 and said saturated fatty acid-rich foods like chocolate and beef,

1:21:08 whole foods that contain saturated fatty acids

1:21:10 are not associated with the issues with disease

1:21:13 like other forms of saturated fatty acid-rich foods

1:21:16 in the context of a whole food diet.

1:21:18 So I think you have to look

1:21:20 at the type of saturated fatty acid you're talking about.

1:21:23 You have to look at the dietary context of those diets.

1:21:27 And also then you can get into man-made

1:21:29 or processed versions of those fatty acids.

1:21:32 I think that matters too.

1:21:33 Is it isolated?

1:21:34 Is it extracted?

1:21:35 Or is it part of a whole food matrix?

1:21:37 I think there's so much nuance in the saturated fatty acid conversation.

1:21:41 But I was just relistening to this podcast, I believe,

1:21:44 with "Nina Teicholz," whom you probably have spoken with her.

1:21:47 Yeah.

1:21:48 So back with the "Minnesota Coronary Experiment." When they actually

1:21:52 did take the saturated fatty acids out of the diet

1:21:55 and replace them with the more polyunsaturated fatty acids it was

1:21:59 corn oil and they didn't find what they wanted to find.

1:22:03 They found that it did reduce cholesterol,

1:22:05 but that the risk of death still went up.

1:22:08 And that particular trial they didn't publish for 17 years.

1:22:12 Because the lead researcher said that they were just very disappointed with what

1:22:17 happened when they actually reduced the saturated

1:22:19 fatty acid content of the diet.

1:22:21 And so I do think it's about traditional fats.

1:22:24 I think it's the delivery, it's the dietary context.

1:22:27 And we just have to be always very skeptical when

1:22:30 things seem too simple and when we're turning our backs

1:22:34 to traditional foods that have nourished us for millions

1:22:37 of years and then replacing them with something that's very,

1:22:41 very new to the diet,

1:22:42 like a polyunsaturated fatty acid-rich seed oil or something like that.

1:22:46 Riffing off of what you just said there, cholesterol came up a couple times.

1:22:52 Somebody that is getting saturated fat,

1:22:55 elevating cholesterol through whole foods, and they're metabolically healthy,

1:23:00 how much of a concern for you would elevated cholesterol be?

1:23:05 That's so interesting.

1:23:07 Yeah,— what is the researcher's name?

1:23:10 He— just did a trial on this.

1:23:13 And what they're looking at is this lean metabolic healthy phenotype,

1:23:18 who also has the lean-mass hyper-responder.

1:23:21 Have you heard about this trial?

1:23:24 Yes.

1:23:25 Yeah.

1:23:25 So.

1:23:25 Yes.

1:23:26 "Dave Feldman," "Nick Norwitz." That's who.

1:23:27 "Dave Feldman," that's who I was looking for.

1:23:30 So yeah, for me, I am not concerned with slightly elevated cholesterol,

1:23:34 especially as I age.

1:23:35 There is a little bit of research that for women,

1:23:38 elevated cholesterol might actually naturally be protective.

1:23:42 And so I'm not saying extremely elevated cholesterol,

1:23:45 because elevated cholesterol can be elevated for many different reasons,

1:23:49 inflammatory reasons.

1:23:50 But for me, I'm not concerned.

1:23:52 Mine is marginally elevated, but I'm also very metabolically healthy.

1:23:56 My insulin levels are where they should be,

1:23:58 my glucose is where it should be, I don't have elevated inflammatory markers.

1:24:02 And so for me, I'm not concerned.

1:24:05 I would be more concerned with metabolic dysfunction.

1:24:08 I think that would be a bigger problem that might lead to more issues.

1:24:14 But for me, just serum cholesterol alone,

1:24:16 I don't think it tells us as much as we believe that it does.

1:24:20 Not to say it can't be an issue for some people, I'm clearly not a cardiologist.

1:24:25 But for me, I'm not too worried about it.

1:24:28 Talk more to the seed oils.

1:24:30 And this ties into what we're talking about here with cholesterol.

1:24:34 Conventionally, people have said, take your seed oils in, Yeah.

1:24:39 lower your "LDL." So, let's talk about seed oils,

1:24:41 though, more as a whole and the problems there.

1:24:42 Mmhmm.

1:24:44 Yeah.

1:24:45 So seed oils, for me, I think-— these are one of those groups

1:24:49 that have been just lumped into one category.

1:24:51 And I do think seed oils,

1:24:53 high in linoleic acid, to a different extent for everyone.

1:24:56 What I think the main problem with them is ultra-processed.

1:25:00 A lot— to take those seeds into an oil,

1:25:04 that's an extensive process, lots of high heat,

1:25:07 lots of pressure, catalysts, solvents.

1:25:09 It's not simple, you're not freeze-drying something.

1:25:13 You're not simmering a bone.

1:25:15 It's an extensive process.

1:25:17 And I do think the linoleic acid is that they have a lot of double bonds.

1:25:21 Same thing with omega-3 fatty acids.

1:25:24 All fatty acids, the bonds that they have

1:25:26 determine how stable they are and how vulnerable they

1:25:30 are to oxidation and the creation of potentially

1:25:33 inflammatory compounds that can mess with your mitochondrial health,

1:25:37 potentially increase your risk for cancer.

1:25:39 And so that is my main concern with the highly processed

1:25:43 linoleic acids that could potentially contain trans fats or other byproducts

1:25:47 of linoleic acid when it breaks down or is exposed

1:25:51 to high heat and pressure and especially when people are frying them.

1:25:55 Oh my goodness.

1:25:56 I talked to "Tucker Goodrich," and he said,

1:25:59 and I've actually read this in other papers that there was

1:26:02 an increased risk of lung cancer in Chinese women who weren't smoking.

1:26:06 And they believed it was from this constant inhalation

1:26:09 of these more polyunsaturated fatty acid-rich

1:26:12 specifically the linoleic acid-rich seed oils.

1:26:15 So I just think never frying with them ever, should be a thing.

1:26:19 I also don't consume them myself at all

1:26:22 because I just think they're very, very new products.

1:26:26 And I think linoleic acid is an essential nutrient.

1:26:30 That omega-6 fatty acid.

1:26:31 But you need very small amounts that are met

1:26:34 with just normal food consumption outside of seed oils.

1:26:38 And because of the profound benefits of omega-3 fatty acids,

1:26:41 I think eating too many omega-6s,

1:26:43 again, it's going to compete with those omega-3s

1:26:46 for access to your cell membranes.

1:26:48 And we know that when you get more omega-6 fatty acids in those cell membranes,

1:26:53 you can potentially lead to the production

1:26:55 of more inflammatory eicosanoids, prostaglandins.

1:26:58 So, potentially make the level of inflammation

1:27:01 in your body worse simply because you're outcompeting it.

1:27:05 So, for me, I'm not eating seed oils.

1:27:08 Now, canola oil, soybean oil, they have more omega-3s.

1:27:11 There's corn, cotton, soy, canola.

1:27:13 These are-— more higher in the linoleic acid content type of seed oils.

1:27:18 But for me, I'm not consuming them primarily because

1:27:21 I don't like to have that much linoleic acid.

1:27:25 I think it's easy to have oxidized.

1:27:28 There's even shown some seed oils contain trans fats.

1:27:32 And so again, my basis is, are they man-made or are they traditional?

1:27:37 And that's, that's how I choose my fats.

1:27:39 All right.

1:27:40 Another area I wanted to make sure we came

1:27:42 back around to and this is an area you

1:27:45 have unique insight in, not a lot of other

1:27:48 people talking about it is these phytonutrients in animal products.

1:27:51 Yeah, and this is "van Vliet's" big area.

1:27:54 And Doctor "Fred Provenza," they wrote a review paper that I will

1:27:59 send it to you because it

1:28:00 was really fascinating about these secondary compounds,

1:28:03 these phytonutrients, the polyphenols, the terpenoids, the carotenoids.

1:28:08 So those are the main categories that end up in the meat and the milk.

1:28:13 Now, what happens is I can't give you an exact.

1:28:16 I don't know exactly how many, but if you think about it,

1:28:19 the animal is a reflection of what it's eating.

1:28:23 So corn and soy, and-— very few grains make

1:28:26 up the basis of a lot of animals' diets.

1:28:29 And then— you take it over here, you have a pasture.

1:28:32 And I remember speaking to a lot of these farmers,

1:28:36 and they couldn't even name how many different species of plants they had— 30,

1:28:41 50, who knows— when you have a pasture.

1:28:44 And so animals get to eat, if they can,

1:28:47 if they have access, these plants that we can't otherwise consume.

1:28:52 And then-— brings in new novelty and diversity into our diet, too.

1:28:56 So these polyphenols, anti-inflammatory.

1:29:00 Carotenoids, we know that they have benefits for the eyes.

1:29:04 Terpenoids, those are ones that "Provenza" has looked at in terms

1:29:08 of satiety and telling us when we should eat.

1:29:10 But they're antioxidant, anti-inflammatory, potentially anti-insulin effects.

1:29:15 So metabolic benefits, all these different kinds of benefits.

1:29:18 And so if you're not eating the plants that contain those plant

1:29:22 nutrients you're going to have a product that is significantly decreased.

1:29:26 So corn and soy-rich feed is going

1:29:29 to have significantly fewer than this botanically diverse pasture.

1:29:34 The other really important thing is that the compounds

1:29:36 and when I was on Doctor "Mark Hyman's" show,

1:29:39 someone said, they're not the same.

1:29:41 So the animals are going to take those plant compounds,

1:29:43 and then their microbiome is going to process them.

1:29:46 And then potentially their liver is going to come in and add a sulfate,

1:29:50 you know what I mean?

1:29:51 They're going to transform these plant compounds.

1:29:54 So they won't be exactly the same as they were when they were in the plant,

1:29:58 but yet they can still have profound impacts on our body.

1:30:02 And Doctor "van Vliet's" research he's done two, or he's done one trial.

1:30:06 And then I have a trial that I'd love

1:30:08 to share with you that I think kind of elucidate that.

1:30:12 One trial, this was in kangaroo,

1:30:14 just on native pasture versus beef from a feedlot.

1:30:17 And they found rates of inflammation after

1:30:19 a meal were far lower in the kangaroo.

1:30:22 So it could be just the fat content, could be a different species.

1:30:26 But Doctor "van Vliet's" actually gone and done it for a more regenerative diet.

1:30:31 Totally.

1:30:32 And a regular conventional diet,

1:30:34 in terms of animal products and the plant products, and found that— definitely,

1:30:38 he actually took people from the Standard American Diet to a whole-foods diet,

1:30:43 and saw a very significant reduction in inflammation.

1:30:47 But then even people from a whole-food diet

1:30:49 to a regeneratively raised whole-food diet, which in my mind,

1:30:53 regenerative is moving the animal on pasture,

1:30:56 on these botanically diverse pastures and then still saw

1:30:59 a trend toward further reduction in certain inflammatory markers.

1:31:03 And so for me, it's these plant compounds could potentially help our metabolism,

1:31:08 they could make us feel fuller,

1:31:10 they could be reducing inflammation every single time we eat.

1:31:14 And so that is a really profound idea.

1:31:16 And if we could change the way

1:31:18 that we made our animal products across the board,

1:31:22 we might see what they saw in that kangaroo study,

1:31:25 just we all were dealing with less inflammation after every single meal.

1:31:29 And I think that's exciting.

1:31:30 It hasn't been scientifically validated yet,

1:31:33 but I hope that's where we're going.

1:31:36 There's so many levels to this.

1:31:38 The food we're eating,

1:31:40 we've gotta make sure we're protecting it from the toxins, I know.

1:31:44 and then making sure the food we're eating,

1:31:46 in the case of animals, that they're eating the right foods,

1:31:49 and then the diversity layer,

1:31:50 the nutrients they're converting from plants to nutrients

1:31:51 we're going to get when we eat the animals.

1:31:53 I know.

1:31:58 It's exciting.

1:31:59 It's fun.

1:31:59 There's so much to learn here.

1:32:02 I know, that's what I think too.

1:32:03 I'm so glad you find it exciting rather than

1:32:06 overwhelming because I always want that to be the way.

1:32:09 Take that first step.

1:32:10 Whole foods diet.

1:32:11 But then also, it was kind of my journey.

1:32:14 I was able to take the step I needed to heal my own body.

1:32:17 And then when we had our son,

1:32:18 I was kind of able to look a little bit bigger picture like,— how

1:32:22 do we make sure that nutrient density is a thing for all the future generations?

1:32:26 And then that just comes down to paying attention to the source,

1:32:30 the system that we're supporting every time.

1:32:32 But you've just got to start where you are.

1:32:34 But you're right, there's such enormous complexity,

1:32:37 so much exciting research going on where they're looking at the different

1:32:41 animal products and how low can you get that ratio?

1:32:45 My husband is creating chicken feed in our house because we invested

1:32:49 in a chicken farm and we're seeing how low can we get those ratios.

1:32:53 And there's just so much to learn.

1:32:56 And the more I learn, the more I learn I still need to learn.

1:32:59 So it's exciting.

1:33:01 And we can totally reclaim our food supply,

1:33:03 and we can make sure that future generations

1:33:06 have he kind of health that they deserve.

1:33:10 Well, as somebody with a ten-year-old son,

1:33:13 what are some of the things you've learned in that realm over the years,

1:33:17 teaching your son, making sure he's getting the proper nutrition?

1:33:21 Yeah.

1:33:22 Oh, I love it.

1:33:23 It's been a journey because he's sometimes embarrassed

1:33:25 about the way we eat because it's so different.

1:33:28 So it's been a bit of a balancing act.

1:33:30 But he actually just recently had a nutrition

1:33:33 section in their class in fifth grade.

1:33:36 And his teacher reached out to me and said,

1:33:39 he is so excited to share what you've taught him.

1:33:42 And he is so excited to tell people,

1:33:44 you just gotta stay away from the processed foods,

1:33:47 and we have to eat the one-ingredient foods.

1:33:50 And-— even though he was embarrassed to me,

1:33:52 he was actually excited to share it with his class.

1:33:56 And he knows— in the morning,

1:33:57 we have a high-quality protein and just one bite of a fermented food.

1:34:02 I don't make him go to town, but he just has to take one bite of a ferment.

1:34:06 He prioritizes his protein.

1:34:08 He gets some fiber.

1:34:09 So I just give him little rules.

1:34:11 And yes, on Wednesdays, sometimes he wants to go get a bag of chips

1:34:14 and take it to school and be like all the other kids.

1:34:18 And do I let him?

1:34:19 I do.

1:34:19 We do a once-a-week, hey, you get to choose.

1:34:22 You're the boss.

1:34:23 It's your body.

1:34:24 And sometimes, he doesn't do well with gluten,

1:34:28 and we know that, but I don't micromanage it anymore.

1:34:32 Now that he's ten, it's like, you know what happens.

1:34:35 Your tummy's gonna hurt, and you get that choice.

1:34:38 So, it's nice to see all of the lessons.

1:34:40 And he does, the more his frontal lobes kick

1:34:43 in, he's able to kind of control those impulses.

1:34:46 It's just nice to see him learning his own

1:34:49 lessons and being excited to teach his classmates.

1:34:51 But— it's not always easy.

1:34:53 And he isn't always excited about it.

1:34:55 But we don't— bring those foods into the house.

1:34:58 Like I said, if we are going to get a bag of chips,

1:35:01 it's because we're going to stop by before school and he's going to pick it up.

1:35:05 Because I just think if it's in the house,

1:35:08 that's what he's going to eat, and I can't blame him for it.

1:35:11 Those foods are engineered to be addictive and to override your satiety signals.

1:35:15 And so, yeah, we're strict about keeping it out

1:35:18 of the house and also making it an occasion

1:35:20 and trying to normalize it making sure that he

1:35:23 doesn't think he's bad because he wants those foods.

1:35:25 No, you're supposed to want those foods.

1:35:28 People spend millions of dollars making sure you want those foods.

1:35:33 But yeah, all in all, I really hope he has a balanced,

1:35:37 empowered relationship around food and approaches it

1:35:40 with curiosity rather than some sort of like dogma.

1:35:44 How do I feel when I eat this?

1:35:45 And if we can give that to our kids,

1:35:48 then they can be these lifelong scientists and just

1:35:50 feel a sense of control over how they feel.

1:35:54 Because I think that was the missing element for me.

1:35:57 I didn't think I had control over my health or how my day unfolded.

1:36:00 And you don't all the time.

1:36:02 But I do feel like you can, in many ways, predictably, impact your biology.

1:36:08 And that's what I hope to give him the tools for too.

1:36:14 Earlier you mentioned this new fish roe product coming out,

1:36:17 which I'm excited about.

1:36:19 Any other products coming down the line you can talk about?

1:36:24 Yes.

1:36:24 Oh, I love this question.

1:36:25 So many, so many.

1:36:26 We've got so many coming, but the one that's most recent and will be

1:36:30 out at the end of March is a sleep formula.

1:36:33 So we know glycine, it's very helpful for dropping your body temperature,

1:36:37 potentially impacting your neurotransmitters in a way

1:36:41 that can promote sleep alone.

1:36:42 But then we've added other ingredients, we've made a sleep formula.

1:36:46 It's a strawberry cheesecake flavor,

1:36:48 what we see as an after-dinner drink that has a food-based melatonin,

1:36:54 a very low dose because very low dose,

1:36:56 it's a tomato form of melatonin and some chamomile and some reishi mushroom,

1:37:02 and just all of these whole food kind of components

1:37:05 that come together and make a bone broth sleep formula.

1:37:09 And then we also have a new form of protein bar.

1:37:12 We're working on a ready-to-drink collagen milkshake.

1:37:17 So an alternative to chocolate milk that might have a lot of sugar,

1:37:21 and it will again be very glycine-rich.

1:37:24 Okay, the last one I'll mention is a protein coffee.

1:37:27 So, we were really surprised that our coffee is low-mold,

1:37:31 it's low-acid, it's rich in polyphenols, and it's one of our best-sellers.

1:37:35 We didn't predict that, we just wanted to create something that's high-quality.

1:37:40 But we are adding the bone broth to the coffee and just

1:37:44 having a protein kind of like coffee latte drink that's coming soon.

1:37:50 And it's amazing.

1:37:52 Exciting stuff.

1:37:52 I gotta give you guys props.

1:37:54 You're always innovating, coming up with new products.

1:37:58 And the most important thing is uncompromising on quality.

1:38:03 Yeah, for sure, for sure.

1:38:04 But it's so important to us because we

1:38:07 have these really significant relationships with these farmers

1:38:09 and ranchers that we work with and just like this commitment to the system.

1:38:14 To just being an alternative to the system that is degrading the soil.

1:38:18 And that's where I have to say, my husband is an idea man.

1:38:22 For every idea that we execute,

1:38:23 he has 20 that I have to tell him that we can't do that.

1:38:27 He's just an engineer.

1:38:28 He's got all of these.

1:38:29 He sees the gaps in the marketplace, and he's really, really strategic that way.

1:38:33 Has there been any challenges along the journey

1:38:37 staying at that level and not compromising?

1:38:40 Oh, of course.

1:38:42 Of course, yeah.

1:38:43 It's always been.

1:38:44 And I think we're just so honest.

1:38:47 People were really angry that we don't have chicken breasts,

1:38:50 and sometimes we run out of our products.

1:38:52 And that's annoying.

1:38:53 And I get it, that's annoying.

1:38:54 Because...

1:38:55 you just want things when you want them, and it's inconvenient.

1:38:59 But yeah, we found that just being honest about,

1:39:01 hey, sometimes our farmers and ranchers,

1:39:03 they have a bad week or we're out of this, or we

1:39:06 just communicate that directly with people via our email,

1:39:08 and they're pretty, pretty understanding.

1:39:11 And also because we're just committed

1:39:13 to making things really accessible to people.

1:39:16 With "Wild Pastures," our other company, we haven't even.

1:39:19 We raised our prices one time.

1:39:20 It is the absolute last thing that we will ever do if we possibly can,

1:39:24 because we— really prioritize the consumer,

1:39:27 our farmers, our ranchers, transparency, and the system.

1:39:30 But yeah, it's not always easy.

1:39:32 And it'd be so much easier, as I've seen a lot of other companies do.

1:39:36 Oh, well, a little grain-fed...

1:39:38 why does that matter?

1:39:40 That doesn't matter.

1:39:41 Does it matter?

1:39:42 They let the people determine, can we still sell the product?

1:39:47 That's kind of their North Star.

1:39:49 And ours is more like at the basis of a system.

1:39:52 What is the system that we're creating?

1:39:55 Who are the farmers and ranchers that we're supporting?

1:39:58 Does that align with our ideals?

1:40:00 But it's not easy.

1:40:01 It's definitely.

1:40:02 It can be rocky, but there's so many people who are

1:40:05 waking up to this that we just— keep finding those people,

1:40:08 and it makes it all worth it.

1:40:11 Well, "Autumn," as we wrap up here, I want to give you props personally.

1:40:16 Personally, you're a mom.

1:40:18 You earned a "PhD" during this whole business growth stage.

1:40:21 You have "Wild Pastures," "Paleovalley," a restaurant.

1:40:25 You have a lot going on, uncompromising on quality.

1:40:29 So I just want to acknowledge you and say thank you.

1:40:32 Oh, thanks, "Jesse." That's so sweet.

1:40:34 And actually...

1:40:34 I don't have a "PhD." I have a "DSc," so it's more--— like a clinician.

1:40:38 I work more with patients in my training than I did in the lab.

1:40:42 I realized working with "Bentley"

1:40:43 and those metabolomics machines and the liquid-gas chromatography,

1:40:47 I was like, that's not where I belong.

1:40:49 But thank you so much.

1:40:50 And the reason I'm able to do it is because of my team, my family.

1:40:54 This is a family business.

1:40:56 My brother-in-law is our "CFO," my husband is

1:40:58 our,— it's just like we have 200 employees now.

1:41:02 So it's definitely not something I'm doing on my own.

1:41:05 This is a very much a team, family-based effort.

1:41:07 So thank you, and thank you for the work you're doing.

1:41:10 I love your podcast.

1:41:10 I love your podcast,

1:41:11 I love the work you're doing and what you're putting out into the world.

1:41:14 So thanks for having me on.

1:41:15 Well, thank you.

1:41:16 We're going to link up your personal social media,

1:41:19 "Paleovalley," "Wild Pastures," everything in the show notes.

1:41:22 You have a podcast, we're going to link up your "YouTube" channel.

1:41:26 Thank you for all you do.

1:41:28 It's much appreciated.

1:41:30 You're awesome.

1:41:31 Thank you.

1:41:32 Likewise, "Jesse." Always a fan.

1:41:35 Thank you for watching.

1:41:36 Stick around here for this other great interview.

1:41:38 You don't want to miss it.

1:41:39 I'll see you over there.

1:41:41 Contrary to what it says in any source you look

1:41:44 at, that inflammation is the immune

1:41:46 system's first response to infection or injury,

1:41:49 it is really only a first response to infection.

1:41:52 Inflammation does the body no good