The Truth About Confidence No one Told You with @Dr.ShadeZahrai

0:00 I've spent the last 5 years essentially deep diving into why we doubt ourselves.

0:03 I have a credibility wound.

0:05 I constantly feel like if someone tries to attack my credibility.

0:09 Imagine being her parents and educating her so much

0:12 for her to now have not very deep conversations online with influencers.

0:16 This felt like therapy.

0:17 I'm glad.

0:18 I'm glad.

0:19 There was a study done with silver and bronze medalist.

0:21 They found that silver medalists are not happy.

0:23 Oh my god.

0:23 People who experience Botox don't experience as negative moods

0:28 because their face is not reinforcing how they feel.

0:38 Hello and welcome back to the show.

0:40 If you're new here, I'm Dr.

0:41 Sheen, your host, and this is the Dreamirl podcast.

0:44 We're currently filming in the pen by Marina Pearl, my studio.

0:48 My guest today is someone I have been following online for at least 5 years.

0:52 Dr.

0:52 Rashadi Zahar is a globally recognized leadership strategist,

0:56 peak performance educator, author and consultant.

1:00 She helps individuals,

1:01 Fortune 500 companies optimize human potential by applying

1:05 behavioral science and psychology to career growth and confidence.

1:09 A former lawyer with an MBA and PhD,

1:12 she currents Influence CEO Global, creates viral content online,

1:16 is a TEDex speaker and authored Big Trust,

1:20 focusing on empowering people to overcome self-limits and build selfrust.

1:25 If you have ever struggled with confidence,

1:27 this is the video you have been looking for.

1:29 Hello, Shade.

1:31 Hello.

1:31 How are you?

1:32 I'm great.

1:33 I'm so excited to have this conversation with you.

1:36 Me, too.

1:36 And I feel like we've already had a whole episode.

1:38 We have.

1:40 But listen, I just want to tell I didn't

1:42 tell you how I found you the first time.

1:44 So, you remember how you started content around co time?

1:46 So, did I.

1:48 And the first video I saw of you was when you were like,

1:50 "Do you struggle saying no?" And I was like, "Oh my god, who is this?

1:53 Why is she calling me out?" And then I remember watching and I remember you were

1:57 so clear and it was real and you gave like three tips and I was like,

2:00 "How did she fit all of this in one minute?

2:03 How did she say it like that?" and I fell in love

2:05 with your content and at the time I was in corporate

2:07 job as well and I remember you started saying take a pause

2:11 when someone asks you something and I was like wow all

2:14 of these things I was like look at me I'm going

2:15 to become like this big corporate girl now and then obviously we

2:18 left that life bei behind but it was so good to see

2:21 you and I first time I messaged you was July 2022

2:25 I've seen that message amazing amazing I

2:28 love when opportunities happen like that right so

2:30 you connect and then life happens and then

2:32 you reconnect in a completely different space.

2:35 Correct.

2:35 Correct.

2:35 And we actually briefly met in Georgia a few years ago and I'm so

2:38 glad that now we're here to say first of all congratulations on the book.

2:44 Thank you.

2:44 How does it feel to see it here?

2:46 It feels incredible.

2:47 I think anytime you pour yourself into anything, it can be a business.

2:51 In my case, it's a book.

2:52 It's a really surreal feeling to get to the end and see

2:55 it in some kind of tangible form and just because this, you know,

3:01 the book is essentially what I wish I had 10

3:03 years ago as that shy people pleaser in corporate questioning everything.

3:08 I wish I knew what I now know back then.

3:10 So essentially, I wrote it for me then,

3:13 but I've realized so many other people doubt themselves.

3:15 So many people live their lives,

3:17 their careers questioning if they belong, if they're good enough.

3:21 They say yes when they want to say no.

3:23 They don't speak up in meetings because they've got

3:25 that voice in their head saying this is not good enough.

3:27 People will judge you.

3:28 That's essentially why I wrote it.

3:30 I love it.

3:30 And honestly, I told you I bought a copy because I

3:33 knew we were going to sit together and it wasn't my office.

3:36 And then one of my friends came in be like,

3:37 "Oh my god, I've been looking for this book.

3:39 Can I take it?" And then she took it and I was like, "I needed it for the show,

3:42 but okay, I guess it's gone." But you know, see, we're helping more people.

3:45 Um, but you know, I want to tell you,

3:47 so we both have PhDs and I feel like when it comes to content,

3:50 a lot of times you have to filter it

3:51 to make it a little bit more into sound bites.

3:53 But I want this to be a geeky conversation.

3:56 Done.

3:56 Let's nerd out.

3:57 Nerd out.

3:58 Go deep into the research, the facts, the stories.

4:02 And I love your stories.

4:03 Please throw them in as much as you can.

4:06 And the the reason I ask is because our audience is primarily women.

4:11 And a lot of times the questions we get is how do you how are you so confident?

4:17 How do you deal with imposter syndrome?

4:18 First of all, I have a big issue with the even the term imposter syndrome.

4:21 Um and I think this will be very valuable for a lot of people.

4:24 And I I've listened to your other episodes and I

4:27 I know you say treat this like a masterass.

4:29 But I want us to get really deep into it,

4:31 especially the emotional aspect of it all,

4:34 you know, because I think that's where we

4:36 struggle with like the regulation of the emotions.

4:38 So my first question to you, which you kind of touched on already a little bit,

4:41 is was there a version of Shade before this confident version that we know?

4:48 I would argue that the confident version that you know has

4:52 a deeper foundation of second guessing

4:55 and doubting and feeling like an impostor.

4:58 And something that I've learned,

4:59 so I've spent the last 5 years essentially deep diving into why

5:02 we doubt ourselves and what drives that sense of hesitation and overthinking.

5:06 And why is it that there are some people who can set

5:09 a goal and achieve it without letting that voice get in their way?

5:12 And what I've learned is that the goal is not to quieten the doubt.

5:15 The do goal is not to eliminate the doubt.

5:17 The doubt is just a sign that your brain is doing what it it's meant to do.

5:21 The goal is recognizing that, hey, I don't have to listen to it.

5:23 I don't have to become that thought.

5:26 I can acknowledge it, decide what to do with it, and then take action anyway.

5:30 And so what I would suggest is that anyone

5:33 who's trying to eliminate the voice of doubt, wrong goal.

5:37 How do you strengthen parts of yourself so that the doubt

5:40 doesn't cling on to you and instead it just washes off?

5:42 In fact, I'm going to use an analogy.

5:44 So we have two glasses here, right?

5:45 Let's imagine that they're both filled up with water.

5:48 And then I have a golf ball, which is quite heavy, and a pingpong ball.

5:52 Do you call it ping pong here or table tennis?

5:54 ping pong as well.

5:55 Ping pong or either or.

5:56 Right.

5:56 And that one's very light.

5:58 If I take the pingpong ball, the light ball,

6:00 and I place it on top of one of the glasses of water, what happens to the water?

6:04 It just stays the same.

6:05 It stays the same.

6:06 And the ball kind of

6:07 floats.

6:07 Yeah.

6:08 What about the golf ball?

6:09 If I place the golf ball in the water, what happens?

6:10 Goes down.

6:11 The water rises.

6:11 Water rises or spills out.

6:13 So, I like to think of doubt like this.

6:16 That ping-pong ball, the light one,

6:18 is really how our experience or our relationship with doubt should be.

6:22 It floats on the surface.

6:23 We see that it's there, but we don't internalize it.

6:27 Whereas where too many of us struggle is that our doubt is like a golf ball.

6:31 It's heavy and we internalize it.

6:33 We allow it to mean something about ourselves.

6:36 Now, not only that, what would happen if I with the one with the golf ball?

6:39 If we then carefully take out the golf ball,

6:42 so there's no more golf ball, has the water miraculously replaced itself?

6:46 No.

6:46 Because what's spilled is already gone.

6:48 Exactly.

6:48 And so what we find is that a lot of people who have

6:51 that deep doubt they lose a part of themselves and even if they

6:56 start developing the ability to detach from the thought they still don't trust

7:00 who they are because they've lost that instinct to trust who they are.

7:04 And so this whole journey that we go on everything that I put

7:06 in the book it's really recognizing that yeah

7:09 the goal is not to eliminate the doubt.

7:11 It's to learn to manage the thoughts better.

7:12 Acknowledge that they're there.

7:14 See them like the golf ball floating on top of who you are.

7:17 But strengthen the parts of yourself that need strengthening.

7:20 And so the next question is okay well which parts need strengthening?

7:23 How do we know specifically what we need to strengthen in ourselves

7:26 to be more uh resistant to doubt having the effect the negative effect?

7:32 Yeah.

7:31 And this is where it gets really interesting.

7:33 So I'm going to share with you a study from the 70s and I share

7:36 this all the time because it's so relevant

7:37 and it helps us understand this whole space.

7:40 Let's hear it.

7:41 So 1970s a psychology professor by the name

7:43 of Robert Kle conducted this fascinating experiment with students.

7:47 He brought them into a lab and he drew a scar or he split them into groups

7:51 and with one of the groups he drew a scar

7:52 on their face on the right side of their face.

7:54 He let them see themselves in a mirror so they can confirm yes there's a scar.

7:58 Bear in mind this is all happening individually.

8:00 So they're not in a group with a scar on their face.

8:03 They come into a private room have the scar applied.

8:06 Now right before he lets them out.

8:09 So the idea was all these groups would then

8:11 go out and have a conversation with a stranger.

8:14 Oh, and they had to be paying attention to how they feel they're treated.

8:18 Okay?

8:17 So he draws this scar,

8:19 but right before he releases them to have these conversations, he says,

8:22 "I'm going to apply some moisturizing cream

8:24 on the scar to set it so it doesn't crack." Right?

8:27 But he actually removes the scar entirely.

8:29 And he doesn't let them sneaky.

8:31 He doesn't let them see in a mirror what's going on.

8:33 So they think they have a scar,

8:35 right?

8:35 They go and they have these conversations.

8:37 They're coming back.

8:37 They're saying, "Yeah, I was treated differently.

8:39 Yeah, it was tense.

8:40 I was judged.

8:42 There was no scar.

8:44 It was entirely in their heads." And this is what we call expectation bias.

8:49 So, you don't see the world as it is.

8:51 You experience it as you expect it to be.

8:54 And so, when we think about the implications of that for us in our lives,

8:58 all of us have these subconscious scars that we have developed from childhood.

9:03 Whether it's we doubt our voice, we doubt our worth,

9:05 we feel like we need to apologize, we don't feel like we're good enough,

9:08 we feel like we're a burden,

9:10 and these scars influence how we believe other people will treat us.

9:15 And then that's what we notice, even if it doesn't exist.

9:18 We find a way to confirm that initial belief.

9:20 It's called self-verification.

9:22 So, we have a desire for people to see us the way that we see ourselves,

9:26 and we're not even aware of it.

9:29 Wow.

9:28 It's fascinating.

9:30 And when we think, okay, so then the next stage is for us as women when

9:34 we're going into a meeting or a pitch or on stage,

9:39 if we deep down believe that we're capable, don't believe that we're worthy,

9:44 feel like we're going to bore other people,

9:47 we're going to hone in on anything that confirms it.

9:50 So, I had this client very early on.

9:51 I don't do coaching anymore, but her name was Taylor.

9:54 She was a senior leader in the telecommunications industry and she

9:57 had a deep scar that made her feel like she wasn't

10:02 she had to keep proving herself to everybody and she felt

10:05 like she wasn't enough as she was which is so common.

10:08 A lot of us have this experience

10:10 and it was showing up at work of course but where it

10:13 was really interesting was it was also showing up in her personal life.

10:16 So, she kept sharing that when she would have a conversation with a friend,

10:19 if that friend glanced at her phone for a second, you know,

10:22 sometimes we get a text message and we just check it.

10:24 In Taylor's mind, she was saying to herself, "Oh, I'm boring this person.

10:30 She's not interested.

10:31 She doesn't care about me because I'm not enough." Wow.

10:34 And that was not what was happening at all.

10:36 Her friend was probably just checking, "Are the kids okay?

10:37 Was that my husband?"

10:38 And so, this is how our experience is shaped by the stories that we tell.

10:42 And so often those stories are not true.

10:46 They're just perceptions based on our expectation

10:48 based on the scars that we carry.

10:50 Wow.

10:50 Okay.

10:51 So, you know, something just popped into my mind when you said that.

10:53 So, I recently started wearing this sleep tracker ring.

10:56 Oh, Aura.

10:57 Uh, this is Ultra Human.

10:58 And I woke up and I looked at it.

10:59 I looked at my data and it told me that I barely slept last night.

11:02 It was really like poor quality sleep.

11:05 And I was like, great, today is going to be a drag.

11:08 And then I approached my day with that mindset that I will be tired today.

11:12 And it was so bad.

11:13 I every time I was like, "My head is going to hurt now.

11:15 I'm too tired.

11:16 I'm dehydrated.

11:17 I'm this." And then I was like, "This is useless.

11:19 This is really impacting how I approach

11:21 my day." And that's exactly what you're talking about.

11:24 Exactly.

11:24 You know, I had to stop wearing my my watch,

11:26 my tracking watch for that exact reason.

11:28 I was waking up in the morning going, "How is my day going to be?

11:31 Let me check how much deep sleep I got." And I would let

11:34 that influence me as opposed to just tapping into what am I actually feeling.

11:37 Perfect example.

11:38 No, you're right.

11:39 and we we do go out looking for confirmation of all of our doubts, right?

11:43 Okay.

11:44 The the reason I asked that initial question was because I think it's

11:47 important to reiterate that a lot of times people assume that if you're

11:51 outwardly confident when they've interacted with you

11:54 that you are a confident person doesn't mean you don't experience self-doubt

11:57 and doesn't mean that you've eradicated it.

12:00 I don't do you think it's possible to even get rid of self-doubt forever.

12:03 I think it's not necessarily the doubt that you need

12:06 like we need to be thinking about it as thoughts.

12:09 So doubt is a thought which is based on a belief

12:13 and that is only a problem if it affects

12:14 how you feel and if it affects what you do.

12:18 If you're able to sever it there and you just have the thought

12:21 then it's completely okay.

12:22 And in fact part of my research was looking at okay when we experience something

12:28 we call it a demand in the research world.

12:30 So, it's any kind of stress or high pressure

12:32 situation or a situation where you're about to step

12:34 onto the stage or speak or there's some kind

12:37 of stimulus and then we experience a critical voice.

12:40 Most people have a critical voice,

12:42 but not all of them experience the negative impacts

12:45 on their work and their relationships and their career satisfaction.

12:48 So, what's happening between the critical voice and the negative impact?

12:51 And what my study found is that it's action orientation.

12:55 I won't go into the detail, but what that is,

12:57 it's a collection of traits that allow you

12:59 to, as the name suggests, take action anyway.

13:03 Take action anyway.

13:04 And so, again, this whole there's a lot that exists in the world

13:08 about how you need to fundamentally change your thoughts and change the beliefs.

13:12 And yes, that's important.

13:14 But if you can just learn to sever the belief and take the action anyway,

13:18 you start to get the proof points that, hey, I can do this.

13:20 You start to update that sense of selfidentity that you have,

13:23 the self-concept, the self-image.

13:25 And that's how you slowly start to heal those scars that you have

13:29 through showing up, proving to yourself you can do it.

13:32 And even if it doesn't go to plan,

13:35 proving to yourself that, okay, it didn't go to plan and I was okay.

13:38 I learned, I tried again, and I did better.

13:41 That in itself acts as a proof point.

13:43 And when we have these proof points, these evidence pieces,

13:46 it builds what's called self-efficacy, which is a belief.

13:49 Yes, I can set a goal and I can achieve the goal.

13:53 Right?

13:52 So, I want to wind back a little in terms of my experience.

13:57 What I I have a lot of self-doubt,

14:00 especially around people,

14:03 okay?

14:02 Especially around do they like me?

14:04 Am I coming across okay?

14:06 I'm a natural people pleaser by nature.

14:08 Oh, me too, girl.

14:09 Woo.

14:10 I think a lot of women resonate with this.

14:12 And for me, it was how I was raised.

14:14 M

14:16 my parents didn't know that this would

14:18 become an ongoing challenge that I'd have.

14:19 They did the best they could with what they knew.

14:22 But I will never forget when I was about 3 years old.

14:24 Started when I was anywhere between 3 and 5.

14:27 I used to do ballet and every Friday night we'd have

14:30 a big Persian gathering at my parents house cuz I'm Persian.

14:32 We were in Australia.

14:34 And after dinner it was shade which is translated to Shard has to dance for us.

14:40 You know how you bring the kid out and you dance and it was great.

14:44 It made them happy.

14:45 I was happy doing it and then it happened every single week.

14:47 Now, we got to a point when I was a bit older and a bit more self-aware

14:51 and perhaps not as interested as being the center of attention,

14:55 but I didn't know how to say no.

14:57 And so, I would do it because it made

14:58 everyone happy and I didn't know I had a choice.

15:01 So, I had internalized this belief that okay,

15:04 I make other people happy when I perform for them even if I don't want to.

15:07 M and I have carried that through my entire life.

15:10 So I'm currently now applying some of the principles in this to help me

15:15 shake that attachment to validation because I

15:18 think being a people oriented person is wonderful.

15:22 Being agreeable, wanting people to collaborate

15:25 and to agree and to make people happy when

15:28 your entire sense of selfworth hinges on that thing

15:32 and when if someone doesn't like you.

15:34 So, I've had situations recently, and she you probably experienced this.

15:38 We're we are quite visible online, right?

15:41 And naturally, there are going to be people who just don't resonate with you,

15:44 your message, your voice, your eyebrows, like something.

15:48 I still find that difficult.

15:52 That's great to know that it's still still there.

15:54 It's still a challenge.

15:55 But I think what we've learned to do is go, okay, fine.

15:58 I find it difficult.

16:00 I'm just going to do something else.

16:01 I'm going to positively distract myself.

16:03 I'm going to take action

16:05 anyhow.

16:05 The longer you stay in that and you ruminate on it,

16:08 that's when it changes your mood.

16:09 That's when it changes how you feel.

16:11 That's when it makes you start second guessing.

16:13 So, you kind of have to learn to just

16:14 shake off these feelings and these thoughts because again,

16:17 it's not necessarily the thought that matters.

16:20 It's the well, am I going to stay in that state

16:23 and keep thinking about it and ruminating or just move through it?

16:27 And so, that's what I believe both of us have been able to do really well.

16:30 And I think anyone who has been able to succeed and is happy doing so

16:34 is able to do that.

16:36 You know, I I'm so glad you brought this up.

16:37 This was one of the things I wanted to talk

16:39 to you about is being online and being so visible,

16:41 you do get a lot of hate.

16:43 And it's so sad how you can get 900 positive

16:47 comments and one negative comment and you hold on to it.

16:50 I remember it word for word, you know,

16:52 even if you've only read it once and you're like, "A, why did you not like me?"

16:56 And you remember how it felt as well.

16:58 Yeah.

16:58 And it feels it feels very personal.

17:01 That person doesn't know you.

17:02 They probably don't even have a full name or a picture or anything,

17:05 but you still attach so much importance to it.

17:08 And that's why I wanted to ask you like,

17:09 do you think this comes from because whatever

17:12 they're saying is a self-doubt that we have.

17:14 Is that why it really triggers us?

17:16 Before we get to the rest of the episode,

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17:35 Welcome to the pen by Marina Pearl.

17:36 You can book using the link in the description box below.

17:39 I would say there's two reasons.

17:40 So, one of the reasons is absolutely what

17:42 you're touching on, the idea that something only

17:45 hurts if it's a scar that you already

17:47 have and they're poking at an existing wound.

17:50 So, here's an example I actually saw online.

17:52 Sheen, if I said to you, "Your blue hair looks terrible.

17:56 It looks absolutely terrible." Would you take that personally?

17:59 No.

17:59 But my hair is not blue.

18:00 Exactly.

18:00 So, it's not something that you have or believe about yourself.

18:02 So, you're like, "Okay, great.

18:04 Bye." Whereas, when we deeply believes, okay,

18:06 so I'll be completely honest with everybody here.

18:08 I have a credibility wound

18:11 where I constantly feel like if someone tries to attack my credibility,

18:16 that's when I feel it.

18:16 And I feel this need to try and prove that no,

18:19 I am I deserve to be talking about this.

18:22 I've just done the PhD.

18:23 I have this, I have that.

18:23 One of the reasons why I did a PhD was to try and fill that within me.

18:29 And it doesn't it doesn't help.

18:30 There are still people who are going to try and cut you down, of course.

18:33 And so again, you just have to know what are your wounds?

18:37 And firstly, how do you put yourself

18:39 in situations where they're not going to be triggered,

18:41 but when you're visible, you're kind of like, hey, trigger me.

18:44 So, how do you even if that comes up,

18:47 how do you acknowledge, okay, in the moment, I'm not going to internalize this.

18:50 This is a result of that golf ball being deep in that water.

18:54 How do I think of it more as the ping-pong ball floating above?

18:58 Okay, it's there.

18:59 This person doesn't like me.

19:00 It's not a reflection of my value or who I am.

19:03 So, there's definitely that piece.

19:05 You only feel hurt by someone else if

19:07 it's a deeply held belief you already have.

19:11 The second piece is just how our brains are wired.

19:13 So, we have evolved as social creatures.

19:16 We have survived in tribes, in communities for many, many, many years.

19:21 And so the brain has evolved to highly value belonging

19:26 and being approved of and to see disapproval as a threat.

19:32 Because if you are disapproved of in a tribe,

19:34 you might experience rejection and be kicked out of the tribe,

19:37 in which case your chances of survival are significantly less.

19:41 So it's a survival advantage to be liked and part of the tribe.

19:44 Our brains still operate a very similar way

19:47 to the point that studies have been done looking at how brains

19:52 respond to social rejection which is

19:56 what happens when someone disapproves of you.

19:57 It feels like you're being rejected.

20:00 Right?

20:00 The brain responds in the same way

20:01 to social rejection as it does to physical pain.

20:04 It activates the same parts of the brain.

20:06 Right?

20:06 Now, we want to protect ourselves from physical pain because it hurts.

20:10 In the same way, social rejection hurts.

20:13 And so our brain is wired to protect us from that.

20:16 So we magnify it.

20:17 We try and seek the approval of other people.

20:20 What we need to remind ourselves is, okay, the brain is doing what it's doing.

20:24 I'm going to be okay if someone disagrees with me

20:27 or doesn't like my idea or doesn't like my eyebrows.

20:30 I had so many people comment on my eyebrows in my early days on TikTok.

20:34 I like really it gave me a complex about the eyebrows.

20:37 Oh no.

20:38 So again, it's just the world that we live in.

20:40 There's always going to be someone who doesn't like it.

20:43 Yeah.

20:43 And that's actually okay.

20:45 I once I was speaking to a large audience and I said,

20:48 "You don't have to worry about being

20:49 liked by everybody because you're not pizza."

20:52 And then you know what someone said?

20:53 They yelled out, "I don't even like pizza."

20:56 I was like, "That is case in point." Thank you for saying that.

20:58 Perfect example.

20:59 Case in point.

21:00 We're not pizza.

21:01 That needs to be a tagline on a t-shirt.

21:03 That does need to be a tagline.

21:05 But you're so right because even for me, you were vulnerable.

21:07 I'll share mine as well.

21:08 My main thing that I get really triggered as a hate

21:11 comment is for example someone said imagine being her parents and educating

21:14 her so much for her to now have what was it

21:17 have um really boring and not very deep conversations online with influencers

21:24 and and I was like why did that trigger me and I realized it's because for me

21:28 it was a big deal to leave all of that behind and do this because you know

21:30 how there's this um negative connotation associated with being

21:33 a content creator or an influencer it almost

21:35 feels like it's an easy life it's a copout

21:37 about you don't need any talent to do this.

21:40 So, I know that that's what triggers me.

21:42 And then now I just, you know what,

21:43 I delete the comments because I will go back and read it again otherwise.

21:46 So, I just delete or I don't read the comments,

21:49 you know, after a few hours once something goes viral.

21:51 I'm sure you know, the more love you get, the more hate you get.

21:54 So, I'm like, that's it.

21:55 I I stop reading it.

21:57 And somebody gave me great advice,

21:58 which was the day the hate comments will stop bothering you is

22:01 the day the good comments also stop making you feel good about yourself.

22:05 I love that.

22:06 I love that.

22:07 There's so many things you just mentioned which are so valuable.

22:09 You've taken an active stand around what you need to protect your energy.

22:15 Correct.

22:14 And isn't it beautiful that you have the power to just delete a comment

22:18 and otherwise we're obsessing over it and literally you can delete it.

22:23 Gone.

22:22 Gone.

22:23 And then it's out of your mind.

22:25 Well done for doing that.

22:26 Thank you.

22:26 The second piece that you mentioned is the idea of in fact I completely forgot.

22:29 What was the last thing you just shared?

22:31 If the good comments also don't make you feel good.

22:33 So one of the things that we find is

22:36 that when self-doubt is driven by a lack of self-acceptance,

22:39 which is when we feel that we need the validation of others,

22:42 we don't want to be excluded from the group,

22:44 we fear failure, we're perfectionists, all of this.

22:48 When we're experiencing that, it's largely because again,

22:51 we want to be part of this group.

22:53 But what happens is because we don't have a strong sense of who we are,

22:56 we don't accept who we are.

22:57 So we allow the praise of others to make us feel amazing

23:01 and then we allow the disapproval of others to pull us down.

23:05 There's this fantastic book I read called the four agreements

23:08 by Don Miguel Ruiz and it's based on Toltech wisdom

23:12 and one of the agreements within that is this idea of take nothing personally

23:18 and we've heard that but what I loved about it

23:19 is it's also take don't take the positive feedback personally either.

23:24 It shouldn't be something that allows you to feel

23:26 good about yourself because then what are you telling yourself?

23:28 Well, I'm not really strong in who I am.

23:30 I'm going to let other people tell me how I should feel

23:35 and that's the wrong goal.

23:37 So, I love that you're thinking that way.

23:39 Yeah.

23:39 I think it's the best way to approach this.

23:41 But now that we've touched um randomly and obviously from the book,

23:45 I know that you have the four pillars kind of like of um self-doubt, right?

23:49 I want you to elaborate on this because my follow-up

23:52 question on this is especially for overachieving and ambitious women.

23:56 I want to know where do we um where do we excel in these four

24:00 and where do we usually need help in building it up a bit.

24:03 Okay.

24:03 Well, why don't we use you as our example?

24:05 We're going to we're going to determine

24:07 what Sheen's doubt profile is your archetype.

24:10 So, I'm going to just ask you a few questions.

24:12 Actually, why don't I tell you what I think it is based on your journey,

24:15 based on what you've shared with me.

24:16 And as I do that, I'll explain for everyone listening and watching

24:20 what these look like so they can almost determine.

24:22 In fact, we do have a a complimentary quiz that we've got on the website.

24:25 So maybe we can put it in the show notes and it's just 12 questions,

24:28 but it helps you determine where you're strong, where you're weak.

24:31 Okay, so the very first pillar that drives how we see ourselves,

24:35 like these scars that we have.

24:37 Now, we just to preface it for everyone,

24:39 we want all of these attributes to be strong within us that allows us

24:43 to have the degree of strength in who we are so that self-doubt bounces off us.

24:48 You know, we might have the thought it's still there,

24:50 but we don't internalize it.

24:51 So, that's the key.

24:52 So, the very first one is what we call self-acceptance,

24:55 which reflects a very low self-esteem or mid conditional self-esteem.

25:00 So, that looks like outsourcing your worth,

25:03 needing the validation of other people.

25:05 It looks like proving that you deserve to be where you are.

25:10 Attaching your sense of identity to your performance.

25:13 It looks like feeling guilty when you stop

25:16 working because you feel like you are your work.

25:19 It also looks like, this is a very interesting one.

25:21 Some people fear success because of the visibility it will bring and they

25:26 don't feel like they'll be able to maintain that and so they shrink.

25:30 It's called the shrinking syndrome.

25:31 They shrink when something great is about to happen.

25:34 Oh wow.

25:34 They sabotage themselves.

25:35 They step back.

25:35 They say, "No, I'm sorry.

25:36 I'm not ready." A lot of people do this.

25:38 I'm not ready.

25:39 I'll know when I'm ready.

25:40 And they're waiting forever.

25:41 So, this is acceptance.

25:42 Now, from what you've shared with me, it seems like acceptance is probably

25:46 I wouldn't say it's super low because what

25:48 happens is when any of these are really,

25:50 really low, it prevents people from action.

25:52 They become paralyzed.

25:53 I would say yours is conditional.

25:56 Meaning, if you're around people who believe in you

25:57 and you're getting positive feedback and everyone's happy, you feel great.

26:01 Oh, 100%.

26:02 Right.

26:02 However, when you're around people who disagree,

26:04 are pointing out flaws, are sharing these horrible things online,

26:08 and you're around people that don't necessarily believe in you,

26:11 that's when you start doubting yourself.

26:13 Conditional self-acceptance 100%.

26:14 So, that's our first pillar.

26:15 And my I would say my work is still very attached to my worth.

26:19 100%.

26:20 Yes.

26:21 Yes.

26:21 Very common in women.

26:23 Yes.

26:23 So, that's our first pillar.

26:24 The second pillar, so that one's essentially around this sense of worthiness,

26:27 feeling like you're enough as you are.

26:30 Okay.

26:30 First second pillar relates to whether you believe

26:34 you can actually do what you want to do.

26:37 So this relates to self-efficacy and the trainable

26:40 part of that is what we call agency.

26:43 If you were to set a goal,

26:44 do you believe that you will find a way to make that goal happen?

26:47 Yes, I do.

26:47 So we find a lot of women are extremely high

26:50 or not extremely high but in a healthy state of agency.

26:54 Now question for you.

26:55 Have you ever felt

26:58 undeserving of your success?

27:01 or that other people believe you to be smarter or more capable than you are.

27:06 I don't think so.

27:07 Okay, fantastic.

27:08 Yeah, that on that front because I'll tell you it wasn't always like this.

27:11 Um, especially when I got into Oxford the first time, I thought, "Oh my god,

27:14 was this an admission mistake?" But then after

27:17 that, I started again as you said, right?

27:19 Once you get action that kind of like gives

27:21 you proof because I'm very datadriven in my life,

27:25 then once I started getting proof, I'll give you an example, right?

27:28 One billion summit, I was on the main stage

27:30 and this is the biggest stage I've ever been on.

27:32 Um, in the past, every time I would go on stage,

27:34 the top of my ear start to heat up, right?

27:36 And that's that's me getting my little

27:38 anxiety about people will be looking at me.

27:41 What side are they seeing?

27:42 Are they going to think I'm I'm smart or not?

27:45 Um but this time I was waiting to go on stage.

27:47 I was like, "Wow, my ears are not heating up." I was like,

27:49 "Why is it not heating up?

27:50 This is the biggest stage I've ever been on." I was like, "Oh,

27:53 do you know where we're going?" And then I

27:56 realized it's because I've done it so many times now.

27:58 I know I can do this.

27:59 I know I got this.

28:00 You know, and I think that's been built over the years for me.

28:04 Brilliant.

28:04 M.

28:05 So, I'm very happy that the ears didn't go off and congratulations.

28:08 That's huge.

28:09 And again, it's this idea of, well, I've done it enough times that I have trust

28:13 that I'll be fine.

28:15 Yes.

28:15 Fantastic.

28:15 Now, a lot of women who struggle with agency,

28:17 they might have achieved amazing things,

28:19 but they feel undeserving of it.

28:21 They feel like they are that fraud that someone's

28:23 going to find out they don't deserve to be there.

28:25 And what that looks like is trying to overcompensate,

28:29 taking on more work, staying later, doing more than anyone else.

28:33 and then they just end up burning themselves out.

28:36 Right?

28:36 We also see here if someone struggles with agency,

28:38 there's a lot of comparison to other

28:40 people and feeling like you are falling behind,

28:43 feeling like everyone else is ahead of you,

28:44 feeling like everyone else is better than you at what they do.

28:48 This is really common on social media.

28:49 I was about to say

28:50 because we don't usually get inspired by people who are at our level or below.

28:58 No, we follow people who are ahead and we want to be like them,

29:00 but when you struggle with agency, you're no longer inspired.

29:02 M

29:03 you're intimidated.

29:04 You feel inferior.

29:05 You feel like you'll never get there.

29:07 And then you also discount just how much you've actually achieved.

29:11 Yes.

29:10 There was a study done with Olympic gold and sorry, silver and bronze medalist.

29:14 So individual competition,

29:16 swimming, etc.

29:18 Let me ask you this question.

29:19 Let's say that you've been spending the last four years waking up at 4:00 a.m.

29:22 every morning intense training.

29:25 You finally make it to the Olympics, the finals.

29:27 It's the match or the race of your life.

29:30 Mhm.

29:32 You get to the end of the race,

29:33 you look up to the board, and you discover you've placed second.

29:38 Mhm.

29:38 How happy do you think you'd be?

29:40 I don't think I'd be happy.

29:41 What about if you placed third?

29:43 Oh, I would be very sad if I was third.

29:46 So, this is what we'd intuitively think.

29:49 Yeah.

29:49 What's happened though, when they've done these studies,

29:51 they did one in 1995 and they replicated it in 2021.

29:54 They found that silver medalists are not happy

29:57 because they were almost there.

29:58 Almost there.

29:58 If only I had done this, I could have done.

30:01 Bronze medalists are super happy, happier, more satisfied.

30:04 You know why?

30:05 They almost didn't make it.

30:06 I almost missed out.

30:07 Oh my god.

30:08 And entirely depending on whether they're comparing up on what they

30:11 missed out on or comparing down and what they could have been,

30:16 it entirely shapes how happy and satisfied they are.

30:19 And so when we're comparing,

30:21 we're only ever comparing ourselves to people ahead of us.

30:23 And if we look up and think I could never do that or I

30:26 wish I this or that, it makes us feel less satisfied with where we are.

30:30 Whereas if we I'm not saying you should never do that.

30:32 It's really important to have these role models

30:35 or people that you aspire to be like.

30:37 But when that compar comparison eats away

30:39 at your sense of achievement or accomplishment or capacity,

30:44 it's really damaging.

30:45 So I always encourage people acknowledge where you are

30:48 and how far you've grown and then instead of comparison,

30:52 look at how far ahead they are.

30:54 I could never do that.

30:55 Shift to what we call emulation.

30:56 Look at how far ahead they are.

30:58 How do I be more like that?

30:59 How do I apply what they've applied?

31:01 How do I learn from their journey?

31:03 And it shifts you from this state

31:04 of feeling like you're not good enough into, well,

31:08 if they did it, I can do it, too.

31:10 How do I make that happen?

31:11 So that's a little tip for anyone who struggles with agency.

31:14 That's really good.

31:14 You know, I'll I'll tell you a little an like personal story.

31:17 You met Juliet earlier.

31:18 Yes.

31:18 So, when we were doing our end of year review, I was like,

31:21 I'm so gutted because I wanted Instagram to hit 1

31:24 million by the end of the year and we're at 850.

31:27 I was like, we were so close.

31:28 And then she was like, we started the year at 100.

31:31 And I was like, you started the year, you went from 100 to 850 in a year.

31:34 Yeah.

31:34 And I was like, I forgot about that.

31:37 Oh my goodness.

31:38 Wow.

31:39 So, again, because we don't appreciate

31:40 the journey because we're comparing upwards.

31:42 We keep thinking, "Oh, but that's where I needed to be." But we

31:46 don't appreciate the journey of where we've come.

31:47 So, 100% I'm with you on that.

31:49 And you know what would have happened?

31:50 You would have probably reached a mill and gone, "Oh, I wish it was 1.5."

31:54 When I was growing initially on Instagram,

31:57 I said to my husband when I hit 100,000, let's go out for dinner.

32:00 Let's go celebrate.

32:01 And then 100 got close and I said, "No,

32:03 let's make it 200." And then 200, let's make it half.

32:06 We push the bar completely every time.

32:08 And that's why a lot of people are telling themselves,

32:10 I will be happy when I make the promotion,

32:13 when I get that job, when I buy that house.

32:16 And then they get there and they might feel elated for like a little while

32:20 and then they just think, okay, well, what's next?

32:22 Two things are happening here.

32:23 One, it's because they get there and they realize

32:25 this is not exactly what I thought it would feel like.

32:29 Why do I still not feel like I'm enough?

32:31 And then the second thing is they also

32:32 then start comparing themselves against the next layer.

32:35 Okay, well, I got that, but they've got that.

32:37 Oh, then I need that.

32:38 And then they're constantly chasing this feeling of enough,

32:41 but you cannot chase that feeling.

32:43 It's something you have to acknowledge here and now.

32:46 So that's yeah, that's a very interesting space.

32:48 And congratulations.

32:49 That's huge.

32:50 I have a friend who was he hit

32:53 the New York Times bestseller list and I congratulated him.

32:56 He was number two on that list.

32:58 And he said, "Yeah, but I could have been number one."

33:02 So it happens at every single level.

33:04 Every level.

33:05 Every level.

33:06 Every level.

33:06 But see what advice do you have here for people?

33:08 You you mentioned that we need to have that feeling of enoughness here.

33:12 What are some of the tools that you think is useful here?

33:15 So the very first one is acknowledging

33:17 that you have to become aware of your thoughts.

33:19 You have to become aware of your thoughts because

33:21 otherwise they are the golf ball in the water.

33:23 You internalize them.

33:24 You think that that's who you are.

33:26 So the very first step is when you're hearing these thoughts,

33:29 they will say things like I am not enough.

33:31 I am a failure.

33:32 I will never.

33:33 Anything that comes after the word I am, we internalize as identity

33:39 and we view it as being fixed.

33:41 Same thing applies with emotions.

33:43 I am anxious.

33:44 We're telling ourselves, well,

33:45 I am an emotion, which is fundamentally incorrect.

33:48 So, what you want to get better at doing is what's called cognitive diffusion

33:52 from the literature.

33:53 And essentially, you create a gap between you and the thought.

33:56 So, you'd say, I am noticing a thought that I am a failure.

34:00 I am noticing that there's something telling me I'm not enough.

34:04 This is how you slowly take the golf ball out right of the water.

34:07 So that's your first step.

34:08 When it comes to emotions as well, you can do this too.

34:10 Instead of I am stressed, I am frustrated.

34:13 I am anxious.

34:14 You'd say I'm noticing that I'm feeling anxiety.

34:18 I am holding on to a lot of frustration right now.

34:22 Mhm.

34:22 You remind yourself this is not permanent.

34:23 It's temporary.

34:25 It will change.

34:26 So that's our first step.

34:28 the next step.

34:28 I mean, there's so many things that we could do,

34:30 but we need to be taking actions because remember,

34:33 the thought is only the problem.

34:34 The belief is only a problem if you allow

34:36 it to change how you feel and what you do, right?

34:38 So, how do we sever the connection between the thought

34:41 and the action so that we can take the actions which then

34:43 gives us the proof points like you were saying on the stage

34:46 gives you the proof points that hey, I can do this.

34:48 I deserve to be here.

34:50 So, that's the key.

34:51 One of them is going to be instead of immediately saying yes to other people.

34:55 People who struggle with enoughness feel like they need validation and so they

34:58 will default to saying yes before they even know what they're saying yes to.

35:03 And then they often end up overburdened,

35:05 overcommitted and doing things that really deep down they don't want to do.

35:08 Like me at the age of eight,

35:09 not wanting to dance, but saying of course I'll do it.

35:13 Delay.

35:14 We touched on this earlier.

35:15 This idea of intentional delay.

35:17 We know from studies that if you just take a splitsecond pause,

35:22 you make far better decisions when you're under pressure.

35:25 So what does this look like?

35:26 Let's say she and you ask me if I can work late tonight.

35:30 Instead of, "Of course," and then thinking, "Oh my gosh, no,

35:33 I can't." And then not being able to go back and rectify that.

35:35 You say, "Thank you for thinking of me.

35:37 Let me check with my schedule and I'll get back to you."

35:40 Right?

35:40 Let me check with my husband and I'll let you know.

35:42 Let me have a look at my workload and see if we can make it work.

35:45 I'll get back to you by the end of the hour or I'll

35:48 get back to you by tonight or by the end of the weekend.

35:50 Do two things.

35:51 You create the delay, give yourself time

35:54 and then allow yourself to think, do I really want to do this?

35:56 And then tell them when you will get back to them and then get back to them.

36:00 Super easy.

36:01 And then if you need to decline, thanks again for thinking of me.

36:04 I've checked.

36:04 It's not going to work with my schedule,

36:06 but do you want me to put you in touch with someone else?

36:08 Or can we look at doing this next week?

36:09 Mhm.

36:10 If we can get better at saying no and recognizing

36:12 that we need to honor what we need to do.

36:17 Mhm.

36:17 You might have some people that don't like it because we set an expectation

36:20 of how we're going to be treated based on how we let people treat us.

36:23 And if you've been always saying yes.

36:25 So this often happens to women.

36:26 We say yes to everything at work.

36:29 Yeah.

36:29 And then it becomes the competency curse.

36:30 We're good at what we do.

36:31 We keep saying yes.

36:32 So who do they keep coming back to?

36:34 Us.

36:35 And then the moment we finally go, okay, no, I'm asserting a boundary here,

36:38 or I'm I'm finally saying no, this is not what I'm going to keep saying yes to.

36:43 Suddenly that person's really unhappy with us.

36:45 You're difficult now.

36:46 Exactly.

36:46 And so it's challenging, but the more we do it with small things,

36:50 the better and easier it becomes.

36:52 And then everything will feel better.

36:53 So that's how we start acknowledging that, okay,

36:56 for me to accept who I am, I need to honor what I need.

36:59 And sometimes that means saying no.

37:02 Something that's really helpful here is having a deeper yes.

37:05 We don't like to say no.

37:06 Okay, because we're focused on I'm saying no

37:08 to this person and that feels quite negative.

37:11 So, how can we think about saying yes to something deeper?

37:14 So, yes, we might be saying no to that person or declining that thing,

37:17 but that's because we're saying yes to honoring who we are.

37:21 We're saying yes to honoring dinner time with the kids.

37:25 We're saying yes to honoring rest time,

37:27 which I need so I can be my best tomorrow.

37:30 Mhm.

37:30 When in your mind you have that, so you're not just saying no,

37:33 you're saying yes to something deeper.

37:35 It helps you create that balance.

37:37 So you don't just feel like

37:39 you're that difficult, selfish person.

37:41 No, no, I'm honoring something deeper.

37:42 Now, one other thing that's really helpful here is

37:46 so every time I come to post something on social media, I feel cringey.

37:50 I question, are people going to like this?

37:52 Is it going to resonate?

37:53 All the common things that usually hold people back and probably

37:57 would have if it were 10 years ago for me.

37:59 But instead, I actively say to myself, "Care less.

38:02 Care less shy.

38:03 Just care less." And I go ahead and I post it.

38:06 And so, the idea is I'm reminding myself in that moment,

38:08 I'm going to care less about what people

38:10 think and what kind of engagement I have.

38:14 I'm just going to care less.

38:16 And so, I shared with my husband that this is really working for me,

38:18 this idea of care less.

38:19 He said, "That's great, but you're missing half of it." I said,

38:22 "What do you mean?" He goes, "Well, what are you caring more about?"

38:26 And I loved it cuz I thought, "Ah, yes.

38:28 Let's flip it into something positive and affirming.

38:31 So sometimes I will literally write

38:33 down care less about other people's expectations,

38:36 their opinions, what they think, what they say.

38:39 Care more about being of value,

38:41 being of service, living with integrity, contributing.

38:45 And it reminds you in that moment that if you let the care less list take over,

38:50 you're then not able to do all the other things that you wish to do

38:53 and to have that impact and have that contribution.

38:56 So that's really effective.

38:57 And again, what that does is gives you

38:58 the ability to have those little proof points,

39:01 which not only helps build up the evidence that, hey,

39:04 I am the kind of person who's able to do this, but it also,

39:08 we know that when you're taking action on a small

39:10 goal that is part of a bigger goal, you get this beautiful shot of dopamine.

39:14 Yes.

39:15 Because dopamine is released in anticipation of something that we want.

39:20 And as we get these little shots of dopamine, we suddenly feel really good.

39:24 We suddenly feel more motivated.

39:25 we suddenly create momentum.

39:27 I Okay, I'm going to pause on the four.

39:29 Yeah.

39:29 Yeah.

39:30 There's something I want to share which I think

39:31 is so important because there's a big misunderstanding that exists.

39:35 We're going to bust that right now.

39:36 Go for it.

39:37 I'm going to ask you this.

39:38 What is the opposite of self-doubt without thinking about it too much?

39:43 Selfrust.

39:43 Okay.

39:43 I love it.

39:43 You've obviously been primed.

39:44 So, when we ask this question on stages with the leaders

39:48 and teams that we're working with, with these Fortune 100 companies,

39:51 95% 90 to 95% will sayident.

39:54 confidence.

39:54 Confidence.

39:55 And I'll admit before I did the research, I thought exactly the same thing.

39:59 So many people are waiting to feel

40:00 confident before they take action because they genuinely

40:03 believe that confidence is the state that they

40:05 need to reach to combat the self-doubt.

40:08 But that is why they're perpetually waiting.

40:10 They're waiting to feel ready.

40:12 They're waiting until that feeling arrives and it doesn't arrive.

40:16 And it's because when we interrogate what confidence is to people,

40:20 it's associated with this feeling of certainty.

40:23 Mhm.

40:23 And certainty doesn't come before you've done something.

40:26 It actually comes after you've done it.

40:28 You have to do the thing, see yourself doing the thing,

40:31 which boosts that idea of self-efficacy, this belief that I can do the thing,

40:36 which also allows you to build a degree of skill and competence,

40:40 which then boosts your confidence.

40:42 That's when that feeling of certainty arrives.

40:44 So then if confidence comes after we do the thing, what comes first?

40:50 Yeah.

40:50 Selfrust.

40:50 And the beautiful thing about self trust is you do not have to feel confident.

40:54 You just have to trust yourself more.

40:57 Trust that you are worthy.

40:58 Trust that you will figure it out.

40:59 Trust that you have some degree of power.

41:01 And trust that you'll be able to handle the emotions that come with it.

41:04 And so we've so far looked at the first two pillars of selfrust.

41:08 Acceptance.

41:09 We've identified yours is like kind of conditional.

41:12 And then agency.

41:12 You don't have an issue with agency.

41:14 You've developed it.

41:15 And that's the beautiful thing.

41:16 These things are trainable within us.

41:19 But many women they they have kind of conditional agency as well.

41:22 Now let's move to the third

41:24 which is before you move.

41:25 Before we move before you move I have questions.

41:27 Let's do it.

41:28 Let's do it.

41:29 No I I love what you touched about on the second pillar.

41:32 But one thing I want to ask you you know as recovering people pleasers right.

41:37 Um especially when you are um in the workplace

41:40 when you have your own business we are entrepreneurs right?

41:42 You have your own team you work with a lot

41:44 of people and even in the public eye with people.

41:47 How do you sometimes you have to put your foot down,

41:50 sometimes you have to give crit like constructive feedback,

41:53 sometimes you have to fire people and a lot

41:55 of that I know women struggle with because you

41:59 know now this person cannot like you after you

42:01 fired somebody and then it becomes difficult even giving feedback.

42:05 But then how do you as you mentioned how do you cut

42:07 that bond in between how you're feeling and what you need to do?

42:11 How do you stop that emotion from impacting your decision as an entrepreneur?

42:16 Hey dreamers, quick pause from the convo.

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43:26 Now, back to the episode.

43:28 So, with this feeling of wanting people to like us at work,

43:31 it can completely derail what we need to do.

43:35 Mhm.

43:36 And a lot of women, as you said, very much struggle with the people elements

43:40 because they feel like if they're too soft,

43:44 then they get taken advantage of, right?

43:46 And if they're too harsh, then everyone hates them and calls them bossy.

43:50 And again, we have this giant double standard.

43:52 We could go into all that research, but we're not.

43:54 What's really helpful to remind yourself is that

43:57 I am here to be effective.

43:58 If you're an employee, I'm here to be effective.

44:00 I'm here to do my job.

44:02 And sometimes that involves doing things that are uncomfortable,

44:06 right?

44:05 What I like to say though is if you're a good human,

44:07 you shouldn't enjoy these things.

44:09 You shouldn't enjoy firing people and giving people negative feedback.

44:12 Of course not, because you genuinely care about other people.

44:15 So then there are things that we can do

44:17 that are going to help us deliver what we

44:19 need to deliver in terms of the feedback

44:21 or the firing in a way that is more people oriented

44:25 like human first.

44:26 So when it comes to feedback, the fact of the matter is there's two elements.

44:29 One of them people don't like receiving feedback.

44:31 Mhm.

44:32 Because we fundamentally don't like to be told what to do

44:34 because we want to feel like we're in control of things

44:37 and it can undermine our self-efficacy when someone tells us what to do.

44:40 That's the first step.

44:41 The second one is feedback has a very negative connotation.

44:46 Of course, I mean if I said to you she have some can I give you some feedback?

44:49 I'll start sweating.

44:50 Yes.

44:50 And they're like up here right that ear

44:52 would start tingling and going red again.

44:54 We fundamentally don't like it because there's a very negative space.

44:57 It's like here's what's wrong and here's how you need to fix it.

44:59 Doesn't feel great.

45:00 especially because we internalize it which reflects conditional selfacceptance.

45:05 So what we want to do is acknowledge okay when it comes to human

45:07 behavior how do we get people to change their behavior and actually want to

45:12 well we start by building up their self-efficacy.

45:15 What does that look like?

45:16 I'm going to tell you what's working really well.

45:19 I'm going to tell you what you're doing well.

45:21 So you can start that conversation feeling like oh she's on my side.

45:25 She wants to see me succeed.

45:26 You feel good about yourself.

45:27 Mhm.

45:28 And then instead of saying, "Here's what's wrong.

45:30 Here's how you fix it," you say,

45:32 "Here is what's working well, and here's what would make you even better.

45:36 Here's how you'd be even more effective.

45:38 Here's how you'd have even more of an impact."

45:40 So, I'm still addressing the behavior or the performance issue,

45:44 but I'm actually phrasing it as, hey,

45:45 I want to see you succeed, and this is how you get there.

45:48 And it fundamentally changes the way that you approach this conversation.

45:51 It fundamentally changes the way you feel

45:53 in this conversation and changes the way

45:55 that they respond to you and take it and how receptive they are.

45:58 Yeah.

45:58 Yeah.

45:58 The choice of language makes a huge

46:00 difference in whatever aspect you're having, right?

46:02 Choice of language.

46:03 And I told you this earlier, you're so good with your choice

46:05 of words as well whenever we're having conversation.

46:07 But you know, one thing um one advice I got was to do the compliment sandwich,

46:12 right?

46:13 Start with a good thing, then you give the feedback,

46:15 then you end with another good thing of against saying,

46:18 you know, we value what you're doing here and I think you will be great.

46:21 Okay, thank you.

46:22 That was that question.

46:22 We can go back to the third.

46:24 Well, I just want to touch on language because it's so powerful,

46:28 please.

46:28 The language that you use can change not only how relationships are,

46:32 but also the language you use to yourself.

46:34 In fact, let me pause on this cuz it comes up in the third attribute.

46:36 Okay, so we've got the first two.

46:38 Yes.

46:38 The third one is what we see extremely high in many women

46:42 especially in high performing women, high potential women.

46:45 We call it autonomy and it reflects what's called the locus of control.

46:49 So locus of control,

46:50 locus comes from the word or the Latin word locai which refers

46:53 to location and so it's where do you place control in your life

46:57 like the location of control is it outside of you as in my life

47:00 is controlled by other people my family the market my boss

47:04 things that I have no control over or do you

47:07 feel like you have a degree of control over your choices

47:10 and that they will have some kind of an outcome not that you can

47:13 control everything because we know that's not

47:15 possible but do you feel personally powerful

47:18 and we find a lot of women are very good at this.

47:21 They focus on what they can control.

47:22 They don't complain.

47:23 They don't blame other people.

47:24 They're not resentful.

47:25 And that that's why they've been able

47:26 to achieve a degree of success in their lives.

47:29 Would you resonate with that?

47:30 I think I would, but again, I think it's it varies for me.

47:33 And I don't know if it's even this just came up,

47:36 but even with our cycles, right,

47:37 I feel like at different hormonal periods of my life,

47:40 I will react very differently to different things.

47:43 I might feel like, you know what, I got this.

47:44 I know what I'm doing.

47:45 I don't care what other people think.

47:47 And the other day is I'm like, "Oh my god,

47:48 everyone thinks I'm silly." You know, so it really varies for me.

47:52 And I'm glad you raised that cuz that's something I actually don't share.

47:55 Okay.

47:57 Ever.

47:56 I'm not an expert in that space.

47:58 But I know personally that I will have an existential crisis every single month.

48:02 Me too.

48:03 And I'm in bed thinking, "What am I doing with my life?

48:05 I have chosen the wrong career.

48:07 I don't have any energy to do any of this." And I'm in bed crying.

48:09 Where are we going?

48:10 Yeah.

48:10 And my husband will come and be like, "You're due.

48:13 Check your cycle." And I'm like, "No, you don't." I will literally check.

48:16 I'm like, how does he know every single month?

48:17 How do I not know after being through this for decades?

48:21 We've we've been doing it for years.

48:22 Every time I get my period, I was like, uh, it was that it was that

48:25 it makes sense.

48:26 Life is okay.

48:27 Life is fine.

48:28 Everything is easier.

48:30 And so, it is more complicated and challenging

48:32 for women because we have these other factors that are influencing how much we

48:37 accept ourselves and what we're focusing on.

48:39 So one of the best things I can encourage women to do

48:42 is actually track their cycle and then also plan around it.

48:47 I know that in the couple of days before I am not in a state

48:50 to be doing podcasts to be I mean the other thing is also like

48:54 physically there are certain times of the month where I'm like I am not going

48:56 on a podcast then because I'm going to have a bloated face and pimple, right?

49:01 So if you can try and manage your time and life around it

49:05 even your productivity varies completely.

49:08 So if you can get better at tracking,

49:09 you're going to be able to then predict better and then plan better.

49:12 It's not always the case.

49:13 You don't always have that luxury, but if you can try,

49:16 again, it's just taking about a little bit of control.

49:19 So I'm glad that you raised it.

49:20 Important that we acknowledge it.

49:21 Great.

49:22 But it seems to me that you are very like you have a high degree of autonomy.

49:25 Focus on what you can control.

49:26 If things don't work well,

49:28 if you if someone doesn't like you, if something is a failure,

49:32 you just move as quickly as you can to well, what can I do?

49:35 M what can and that has been one of the secrets to your success.

49:38 I mean there's many but that is something that is a huge strength.

49:42 Now what we find with some women

49:45 who are conditional or low on this

49:48 they complain a lot and this is not only at work but we see

49:51 this happening at work and your workplace can drag this down.

49:55 If you're in a position and it could

49:56 be your business too but let's look at workplaces.

49:58 If you're in a position in a culture in a team

50:01 where people don't feel like they have a voice, decisions are made for them.

50:04 They have a micromanaging boss,

50:06 you don't feel like you have a degree of autonomy, right?

50:08 And so what do you do?

50:09 You complain about it because it makes you feel like you can control something

50:12 which is me complaining and connecting

50:14 with other people through that complaining.

50:16 And it can become very toxic very quickly.

50:18 The other thing that we see women tend to do is we connect with others

50:22 unfortunately through complaining.

50:23 Absolutely.

50:24 Oh my gosh, what my husband did last night.

50:25 You would never guess.

50:26 And then someone else jumps in.

50:27 You think that is bad?

50:28 Let me tell you.

50:29 And it's, you know, it's not the healthiest way

50:31 to be connecting because it's also undermining your autonomy.

50:34 The reason why complaining undermines autonomy.

50:37 When we complain, we are activating the same parts

50:38 of our brain that were active when the first instance happened,

50:43 right?

50:43 So, let's say your partner, your loved one, your husband does something,

50:46 says something and you have a very strong reaction

50:49 and then you go and complain about it.

50:50 You are reliving that experience in vivid detail.

50:52 you feel it feel it again and then it makes that memory even deeper etched

50:57 into your brain so that when it pops up you again embody the whole thing.

51:01 Not only that whatever we tend to experience often whether

51:05 it's a thought whether it's a belief whether it's a complaint

51:08 it then shapes what we notice more of.

51:12 So if you're constantly complaining about

51:13 everything that's wrong in your relationship

51:15 you are going to notice more things that are wrong in your relationship.

51:19 If you're constantly complaining about everything wrong at work,

51:22 you will notice all the things that are wrong at work, right?

51:24 Your lenses have completely and that's the power of attention.

51:27 Attention is a superpower.

51:29 So, and again, this is not just limited to women,

51:32 but this is something anecdotally I have noticed in our clients,

51:35 in my friends, just things that happen.

51:38 So, we need to just be fully aware of what's

51:40 going on because we can enter victim state very quickly.

51:43 And a lot of people stay in relationships

51:44 longer than they need to because they feel like

51:46 they can't do anything about it because they

51:48 keep reliving it through complaining and then feeling powerless.

51:51 A lot of people stay in workplaces way longer than they should.

51:54 They're mistreated.

51:54 They're treated poorly.

51:56 It's toxic, but they don't feel like they have power.

51:59 So again, it's like shift your attention.

52:00 One of the greatest reframes here because when we're in that negative state,

52:04 the I'm powerless state,

52:06 what we see is greater activation in the threat detection centers in the brain.

52:09 So we're constantly paying attention to everything wrong,

52:11 all the threads, and then magnifying them.

52:13 When you consciously take control of your attention and your thoughts,

52:18 simply that idea of conscious control re-engages the prefrontal regions,

52:22 which allows us to feel a little bit calmer, more rational.

52:26 Because when we talk about activation in the brain,

52:28 largely how it's tracked is where's the blood flow going.

52:33 Yeah.

52:32 So when you've got activation in your emotion centers,

52:34 the blood's flowing there, which means less blood in the prefrontal regions.

52:38 You want to bring the blood back consciously take control of your thoughts.

52:42 So instead of why me?

52:44 Why does this keep happening to me?

52:46 Why is my relationships why are my relationships always bad?

52:48 Why am why am I always mistreated at work?

52:51 This is victim of course

52:53 selft talk instantly shift to what now?

52:57 What now?

52:57 So what that does is acknowledge okay well this is the situation.

53:01 I cannot change what these people are doing

53:04 but what action am I going to take?

53:06 which requires you to focus on what you can control.

53:08 And there's two things to do here.

53:10 So that shifting is very important.

53:12 But then you move into what I call the could do and the will do list.

53:15 You write down everything you could do.

53:17 Now when we're in this state,

53:18 this is quite difficult cuz there's one word that creeps into our mind.

53:23 And it's should.

53:25 Well, I should be doing that and I should have done

53:27 this and I should have raised it a month ago and I should have.

53:29 We get stuck in shoulds.

53:31 But shoulds activate what's called reactants within us.

53:34 We don't like being told what we should do, whether it's by other people,

53:38 and we don't like it when we tell ourselves what we should do.

53:42 Yeah.

53:41 And we have this resistance in us.

53:44 We become like 2-year-olds.

53:45 No.

53:46 Right.

53:46 Yeah.

53:46 It's very negative.

53:47 Very negative.

53:48 So instead of should,

53:49 what studies have found because the word should can cut off divergent thinking.

53:53 Prevents your ability to think of solutions.

53:55 And studies have been done in groups.

53:57 So at work or when you're trying to collaborate,

54:00 the word should cuts off solution finding.

54:03 Wow.

54:03 So instead what these studies have found is shift to could.

54:08 Just that simple two is it two letters different?

54:10 Yes.

54:11 Just changing the S and the H into a C

54:14 opens up diversion thinking.

54:16 You're able to think of more solutions, more options.

54:18 And when you suddenly think, okay, well,

54:20 I could do this and I guess I could do that and I

54:22 could do this and I could do this and I could do this.

54:24 You feel much more personally powerful.

54:26 But then the next step is okay, what will you do?

54:28 What are three things from that list that you will take action on?

54:31 The smaller the better.

54:32 You want to make it impossible to impossible not to fail, right?

54:37 And impossible not to do because it's so easy.

54:39 You get the proof points.

54:40 You build the self-efficacy.

54:42 You feel more personally powerful.

54:44 Creates a cycle.

54:45 So, this is our third pillar.

54:47 Autonomy, right?

54:48 Should we move to the fourth?

54:49 Yeah.

54:49 Again, this was the power power of language.

54:51 By the way,

54:52 power of language.

54:52 Love it.

54:53 I honestly I think language is so I saw this quote many many years ago.

54:58 I said words create worlds.

55:02 Words create worlds.

55:03 And it's so relevant on so many levels in our relationships

55:08 and internally in our internal world.

55:10 Power of relationships.

55:11 Okay.

55:11 So now we go to the fourth.

55:13 Let's go.

55:14 So we know that you're high on autonomy.

55:17 Okay.

55:16 Oh, let me just share something that happens when people are really

55:19 high on autonomy though is it becomes excessive and turns into a liability.

55:23 What do I mean by that?

55:24 They're so high on focusing on what they can control that they start

55:28 to take responsibility for things that are

55:30 actually not their responsibility to take.

55:34 So it could have been something completely out of their hands,

55:36 but they personalize and they attack themselves.

55:39 They should have known better.

55:41 They and this is where we see again people who are really high on this sometimes

55:45 become self-critical

55:47 because they're taking ownership for things that really

55:49 they had no idea were going to happen.

55:51 So that's just something to be aware of.

55:52 Okay.

55:53 All of these have like a shadow side, a dark side when they're too high.

55:56 The fourth one entirely comes down

55:59 to your emotional experience at any point of time.

56:04 So Sheen, let me ask you this.

56:05 Let's take you back to when you used to get this red on your ear,

56:09 this like anxietyinduced physiological reaction.

56:13 Just very quickly, what are a few things you were feeling in your body

56:18 as in physical feelings?

56:19 Yeah.

56:20 Um definitely temperature in my ears that would tingle and my throat

56:24 would a little bit tighten and my I get parched.

56:27 That's what I would feel.

56:28 Heart rate increase.

56:29 Yeah, of course.

56:30 Yeah.

56:30 All the all the usuals.

56:31 Of course.

56:32 Now, in that moment,

56:33 you obviously would have had thoughts that would reinforce how you're feeling.

56:36 Oh my gosh, I don't what anxiet.

56:38 Right.

56:40 Mhm.

56:39 If we were just to pause and strip

56:41 away every single emotion and physiological experience you had.

56:45 Mhm.

56:45 Now you're just left with you and some thoughts.

56:47 Yeah.

56:47 Is it suddenly much easier to process those thoughts

56:51 and to rationally work through them because you

56:52 don't have any feeling in response to them?

56:54 Completely.

56:55 So this is the power of emotional regulation.

56:58 As soon as we can regulate our emotions, everything in life becomes easier.

57:03 I'm sure

57:04 everything.

57:04 And so this is the fourth pillar of selfrust.

57:08 It's trusting that you can handle the emotions that come with something,

57:12 but also trusting that no matter what emotion you feel,

57:15 you don't have to become it.

57:18 You don't have to internalize it.

57:19 It doesn't have to define your experience.

57:22 And so we find a lot of the time

57:24 if you struggle with any of the other attributes.

57:27 So in your case, like the conditional acceptance, conditional agency,

57:30 it's driven by an emotion.

57:32 Mhm.

57:32 Of course, all you have to do is think about how it

57:34 feels when someone doesn't like you or gives you negative feedback.

57:37 It's very It has a very strong emotional profile.

57:40 So if we can get better at managing the emotion,

57:42 we get better at managing the thought, which allows us to rewrite the belief.

57:45 Mhm.

57:46 So, really simply, a couple of basics

57:48 for getting better at emotional regulation.

57:50 Tell me,

57:51 the first one is we've all heard the power of expansive body postures, right?

57:57 I'm going to unpack this a little bit because

57:59 there's recent research that doesn't flip it on its head,

58:02 but it gives us more of an insight into what's really happening.

58:06 Okay,

58:06 we know that there is a connection between brain and body.

58:10 Mhm.

58:09 Thoughts reinforce how we feel.

58:11 How we feel reinforces what's going on in our head and our minds.

58:15 And also our body will reflect how we feel.

58:17 And then how we feel reflects what's going on, right?

58:20 So when you're anxious, when you're nervous,

58:22 when you're insecure, what happens to your body?

58:25 You you really become rigid, isn't it?

58:28 Rigid.

58:28 We slouch.

58:29 We take up less space because the body's

58:31 identified or rather the brain has identified a threat.

58:33 Yes.

58:34 And we're trying to protect ourselves from the threat.

58:36 So we withdraw physically.

58:38 Yes.

58:38 What that does then is reinforce to the brain, yep, there is a threat.

58:41 Okay, reinforce, you know, withdraw more.

58:44 And it just reinforces these negative thoughts.

58:46 So, there's something called the opposite action strategy.

58:48 It is so stupidly simple.

58:51 When your body is telling you to withdraw, but there is no physical threat.

58:56 Do the opposite of what your body's telling you to do.

58:59 Do the opposite.

58:59 If you notice yourself slouching, instantly sit upright.

59:03 Lift your neck a little bit more.

59:05 Take in a deep breath.

59:07 It's so simple, but it's this idea of behavioral activation.

59:10 We're activating the parts of our body

59:11 that reinforces to our brain, no, I'm safe.

59:14 I'm good.

59:15 I'm okay.

59:16 And that can help you in the moment.

59:18 Now, coming back to this idea of expansive posture,

59:21 what's fascinated me is what is it about our posture

59:24 that is sending that feedback loop back to the brain?

59:27 And studies have been done to determine what

59:30 is what's called the mediator between these things.

59:32 Right?

59:32 So, it's like posture and then feeling and mood.

59:35 Mhm.

59:36 what is happening in between?

59:37 And that's called a mediator.

59:38 And they found there's one thing in particular and it's entirely

59:42 actually Let me get everyone and and Sheen to do an exercise.

59:45 I'd like you to just tilt your head down.

59:48 Tilt your head down.

59:49 Fully fully

59:50 and then come back to regular neutral.

59:52 Okay.

59:52 One more time.

59:52 Tilt down.

59:53 Now, when you're tilting down, can you feel the back of your neck strain?

59:56 Okay.

59:56 Now, tilt up again.

59:58 That's called neck flexion.

59:59 What's happening with our neck?

1:00:00 Mhm.

1:00:01 And what these studies have found is that the distance between

1:00:04 your chin and your chest is the determining factor for how you feel.

1:00:09 The distance between your chin and your neck because

1:00:11 you can't really slouch and keep your neck up, right?

1:00:14 No.

1:00:14 No.

1:00:14 It goes down.

1:00:14 It goes down automatically.

1:00:16 So this idea of neck flexion,

1:00:18 which is what's happening at the back of your neck,

1:00:20 which is determined by the distance between chin and chest,

1:00:22 determines how you feel.

1:00:24 So when you're in a state, you're about to go on stage,

1:00:27 you're about to have a conversation with someone at the restaurant,

1:00:29 whatever it is, You just don't even worry about open posture.

1:00:33 Literally, it's just chin to chest.

1:00:35 How do I just elongate chin to chest?

1:00:37 Oh, wow.

1:00:39 Fascinating.

1:00:39 That's so easy, isn't it?

1:00:40 So easy cuz you I actually find sometimes sitting really upright like hurts.

1:00:43 I get aches in my back.

1:00:44 But this is much better.

1:00:45 And when you do that, everything

1:00:48 relaxes, your shoulders drop, say, super simple.

1:00:51 So that is something to bear in mind.

1:00:54 The other thing is if we had a pen, I would demonstrate.

1:00:56 I remember in my first year of psychology,

1:00:58 we learned about the facial feedback loop where it's like, okay,

1:01:01 we've just talked about the physiological feedback loop between body and brain,

1:01:05 but there's also a loop between our face

1:01:08 and how we feel and what's going on.

1:01:09 If you were to grab a pen, I'm going to use my finger to demonstrate

1:01:12 and place it between your teeth like this.

1:01:15 Yeah.

1:01:15 And keep it there for 30 seconds.

1:01:17 You would start to feel a little happier,

1:01:19 a little more at ease, a little calmer.

1:01:21 Do you know why?

1:01:22 What am I doing with my face?

1:01:24 This is opening.

1:01:25 Your jaws are unclenching.

1:01:27 And what else?

1:01:28 This is going up into a smile almost.

1:01:32 Yeah, it's actually I mean that's like a crazy crazy face.

1:01:35 But we're contracting certain muscles that we contract when we smile

1:01:38 and also re relaxing other muscles that are relaxed when we smile.

1:01:42 And you can almost convince your brain that you're happy

1:01:47 just by what your face is doing.

1:01:48 Cuz what usually happens when you're stressed,

1:01:50 when you're frustrated, when you're everything tenses.

1:01:53 Yeah,

1:01:53 everything tenses.

1:01:54 I have to remind myself to like relax.

1:01:58 Oh, okay.

1:01:58 Super interestingly with Botox,

1:02:00 they found that people who experience Botox often don't experience

1:02:05 as negative moods because their face is not reinforcing how they feel.

1:02:10 Oh my god.

1:02:11 So, when they've done these experimental studies,

1:02:12 they found that if you're not able to move your face,

1:02:15 you don't feel as stressed or as frustrated or as angry, which is remarkable.

1:02:19 Not that I'm encouraging everyone to go get Botox.

1:02:21 There's beauty in the natural, but hey, you do you.

1:02:23 Like, whatever makes you happy.

1:02:26 But what it's reinforcing is the power of what's going on here.

1:02:30 And so, even if we just start there, okay, face and body,

1:02:33 how do I prime my face and body to be in the state that I want it to be

1:02:37 in to then feel what I want to feel as a result.

1:02:40 So, that's our first thing.

1:02:41 And then the second one is, we touched on this earlier,

1:02:44 this idea of separating from our emotions.

1:02:46 Instead of I am anxious, I'm noticing anxiety.

1:02:49 instead of okay so there's another area in this space

1:02:53 when it comes to emotions and it's recognizing that your emotion

1:02:56 has a function we've evolved for our emotions to be messengers

1:03:01 they're like little pings on our phone like notification pings right

1:03:04 so we can pay attention to what the pings are we don't have

1:03:07 to listen to every single one of them but if you have a recurrent emotion

1:03:11 like before your what's a what's a situation that people might find

1:03:15 themselves in often that gives them a lot of anxiety or self-doubt

1:03:19 let's presentation presentation.

1:03:21 So every time you're giving a presentation, this was me.

1:03:24 I used to get so anxious before speaking

1:03:26 in my team meetings with my colleagues and friends.

1:03:29 I would get so anxious that the moment I thought of something to say,

1:03:33 my entire body would like sabotage me.

1:03:36 My throat would close, my heart would I'd go red.

1:03:39 I hadn't even said anything.

1:03:40 And then I'd lose the opportunity and I wouldn't say it.

1:03:42 And I would have just gone through this emotional

1:03:43 roller coaster and just stayed quiet the whole meeting.

1:03:45 No one would have known.

1:03:46 So when that was happening,

1:03:49 what would have been great is if I had

1:03:50 not in the moment but prior to it asked myself,

1:03:53 what is this emotion telling me?

1:03:55 Okay.

1:03:55 Well, I'm feeling extremely anxious before speaking.

1:03:59 Well, why?

1:04:00 Okay.

1:04:00 Because I want to share something that's of value.

1:04:02 Well, why?

1:04:04 Because I want people to view me as credible.

1:04:06 Well, why?

1:04:08 Because deep down I don't believe that I'm credible.

1:04:10 M there's always an underlying reason for the emotion which will

1:04:14 come down to one of these four pillars of selfrust.

1:04:17 Deep down I didn't accept who I was and there's a reason for that.

1:04:20 I studied law.

1:04:21 I worked in the legal industry for 4 years and never felt like I belonged.

1:04:25 Felt like I was faking my way through.

1:04:26 Moved into banking and finance.

1:04:29 Why?

1:04:29 I just needed something other than the law.

1:04:31 Again, felt like I was faking my way through.

1:04:33 And so because I didn't accept who I was and my value,

1:04:38 it was showing up

1:04:39 with through all these emotions which was then preventing me from being of value

1:04:43 because I'd sit silent in meetings.

1:04:46 Yeah.

1:04:46 So asking yourself those questions and determining.

1:04:48 So for me, my best course of action in addition to like controlling my body

1:04:53 and my breath and all the things we

1:04:54 know was actually to address my lack of acceptance, right?

1:04:58 And finding ways to remind myself even agency.

1:05:01 So I didn't really believe I had the skills to be there

1:05:03 because my background was psychology and law.

1:05:05 And suddenly I'm in a bank.

1:05:07 I don't know what a margin is.

1:05:08 I don't know what net interest whatever is.

1:05:10 And so what would have been helpful is to actually go through a process.

1:05:14 In fact, I'll share it with everyone now.

1:05:16 If you ever feel like you don't belong,

1:05:18 you're questioning your skills and it's fueled by the emotion.

1:05:22 For me, if I look at that agency pillar,

1:05:24 one of the best things I could have done was okay,

1:05:26 I'm going to divide my piece of paper into three three columns.

1:05:29 M on the left I'm going to write down every quality I have developed

1:05:34 not skills because I knew I lacked there were some skills I genuinely lacked

1:05:38 like financial modeling that came much later

1:05:40 but what are all the skills I call them essence qualities the transferable

1:05:45 human skills that I've developed throughout the entire course of my life

1:05:50 write them all down on the left curiosity growth

1:05:52 mindset ability to see through ambiguity I wrote them

1:05:56 all down in the middle what are all

1:05:59 the things I don't believe I can do right now.

1:06:00 Well, financial modeling is one of them.

1:06:03 And then I had a whole bunch of other things in there.

1:06:05 On the right hand side is where you then marry them up.

1:06:08 So for example, yeah,

1:06:09 I don't know how to do financial modeling because I've never learned.

1:06:11 So what I will do and I wrote

1:06:12 this in the right side or rather I did it much later.

1:06:15 I did it probably in the last three years in banking.

1:06:17 I finally addressed this lack of agency.

1:06:19 You write down okay don't know how to do financial modeling.

1:06:22 Well, I need to learn and I'm going to bring my growth mindset,

1:06:25 my curiosity, my ability to ask questions to that.

1:06:28 and suddenly I felt a lot more powerful.

1:06:31 Next one.

1:06:32 I don't actually understand a lot of the terminology

1:06:34 that's being used in these meetings and I

1:06:36 don't want to ask what this acronym means because

1:06:39 I don't want people to think that I'm stupid.

1:06:41 I don't belong.

1:06:42 Okay.

1:06:42 Well, I'm going to bring my passion

1:06:45 for asking questions and learning new things.

1:06:47 I'm going to bring that and ask in the next meeting.

1:06:50 So, you marry up what you know you already have to what you're currently doing.

1:06:54 And it's because the brain is wired like the like the YouTube algorithm.

1:06:58 Not that anyone knows how the YouTube algorithm works.

1:07:00 I think even people at YouTube probably don't know how it works.

1:07:03 But if you see something, you're scrolling on your phone and you see something,

1:07:07 it captures your attention, it triggers to that algorithm, show more of this.

1:07:13 Correct?

1:07:13 And then you're going to see more of it whether you want to or not.

1:07:15 And then if you're attracted to those things and you keep watching them,

1:07:18 you just get more and more.

1:07:19 But if you go, no, actually I don't want that.

1:07:20 And you keep swiping, eventually it will learn.

1:07:23 Okay, well, we're not getting the desired impact.

1:07:25 Let's stop serving up this content.

1:07:28 Our brains work the same way.

1:07:30 So, if you're constantly focusing on what you don't know how to do,

1:07:32 you will notice more of what you don't know how to do.

1:07:34 Like, we've covered this so many times through our conversation.

1:07:37 But if you can remind yourself, well,

1:07:39 I have all these existing qualities and strengths and attributes

1:07:43 that I can apply even when I'm doing something new.

1:07:46 So, here's an example.

1:07:47 It comes from the well, let me tell share two little stories.

1:07:51 One of them is legendary graphic designer Paula Sher.

1:07:56 Okay.

1:07:55 So this is back when City Bank was

1:07:57 merging with Travelers Insurance to create City Group.

1:08:02 Right.

1:08:01 So this is in I think it was 1998.

1:08:03 Yeah.

1:08:03 It was a while ago.

1:08:04 Yes.

1:08:04 A very long time ago.

1:08:05 And they needed a logo.

1:08:06 So they hired Paula Sher who was top of what she did.

1:08:11 Like she was phenomenal, incredible at graphic design.

1:08:13 They hired her to work on the logo.

1:08:15 So she's sitting in this meeting and everyone is

1:08:17 talking about what they have in mind for the logo.

1:08:19 She grabs a napkin and she starts scribbling on the napkin.

1:08:23 Then she slides it across the table and she goes, "Here's your logo."

1:08:26 Now, the room was stunned.

1:08:28 They're like, "How is it possible that you've just designed

1:08:29 a logo in a matter of seconds?" And she calmly responded,

1:08:34 "I did it in a second and 34 years.

1:08:37 I designed this in Yeah, a couple of seconds,

1:08:40 but it's with every experience I've ever had." Yeah.

1:08:44 She understood her worth.

1:08:45 She understood that time does not necessarily have to, you know,

1:08:50 so we live in a world where we think that time equals value.

1:08:54 Yes, I must put in X amount of hours in order

1:08:55 to charge this much or for it to be worth

1:08:58 when actually no because the better you get at anything,

1:09:01 the less time it takes you.

1:09:02 Of course, it's not that it's value, you know, it should be valued less.

1:09:06 In fact, it should be valued more because you've honed the expertise.

1:09:08 And yet so often again we focus on what we don't know

1:09:12 or that we need to be working really hard to prove

1:09:14 that this thing is of value and we underell ourselves or undercut ourselves.

1:09:18 So that's Paula's story and I love it.

1:09:20 And how much did she get for that?

1:09:21 Oh 1.5 million.

1:09:22 There we go.

1:09:23 There you go.

1:09:23 1.5 million.

1:09:24 She knew her worth.

1:09:25 And then the other story is Tinker Hatfield.

1:09:27 Okay.

1:09:28 This is a story about backing your value even

1:09:32 if you've never done anything in that space before

1:09:34 because Paula's example is well she knew her worth because

1:09:36 she was a graphic designer and that was graphic design.

1:09:39 What if we're in a new space?

1:09:40 It's a new job.

1:09:41 Never done this before, new industry, new business.

1:09:44 Tinker Hatfield was a corporate architect

1:09:47 and he obviously went to architecture school.

1:09:49 He's working for Nike.

1:09:50 Now in 1985 Nike is struggling as a business, right?

1:09:54 Stock uh the stock price had declined.

1:09:57 massive layoffs.

1:09:58 They were struggling to get into the basketball market.

1:10:01 They needed fresh talent.

1:10:02 They hosted this 24-hour shoe design competition.

1:10:05 And so Tinker Hatfield, this young guy,

1:10:07 just designed something and he submits it and he wins.

1:10:12 Oh, so zero experience.

1:10:12 He just won.

1:10:13 The next day they invite him to join the design team.

1:10:16 So suddenly he's now in the design team.

1:10:19 Zero design experience.

1:10:21 Okay.

1:10:21 But then he started thinking, well, okay, yeah,

1:10:23 I've never designed before, but what have I done?

1:10:25 Well, I've studied architecture and I've studied buildings.

1:10:27 And there was this one building he studied

1:10:29 in architecture school called the Sra Pompidu in Paris

1:10:32 and it's like an inside out building

1:10:34 where everything that's usually inside the structural, the mechanics,

1:10:37 the elevators, they're all on the outside by design.

1:10:41 Okay.

1:10:41 And it's fun.

1:10:41 People go and visit it.

1:10:43 So he thought, why don't we use that idea and apply that to shoes?

1:10:47 So he started sketching and he drew a Nike shoe with the swish and then

1:10:51 he put a hole in the heel so people can kind of see through it

1:10:56 and that became the Nike Air Max one which was this iconic sneaker and Phil

1:11:00 Knight the CEO of Nike credits Tinker Hatfield with saving them in the 80s.

1:11:05 Oh my god.

1:11:06 Right.

1:11:06 So Tinker didn't allow the fact that he had zero experience

1:11:10 to get him to sit on his hands and wait for other people to take the lead.

1:11:14 He thought what qualities do I have?

1:11:16 what ways of thinking do I have?

1:11:18 What background do I have?

1:11:19 And how can I bring those instincts to what I'm doing now?

1:11:23 So, anytime you know anyone listening, anyone watching,

1:11:26 if you are doing anything new, don't feel like you have nothing to add.

1:11:30 You have a huge amount to add.

1:11:32 You just have to tap into those essence qualities and bring them to the table.

1:11:36 And that might mean, okay, I have a very steep learning curve ahead of me.

1:11:39 That's fine.

1:11:40 Bring your essence qualities,

1:11:41 learn what you need to learn, hit the ground running.

1:11:44 Don't allow the thought, I don't belong here.

1:11:46 I don't know how to do this to affect how you feel and then affect what you do.

1:11:49 Create that separation.

1:11:51 Detach from it and take the action anyway.

1:11:53 Speak up.

1:11:54 Ask the question.

1:11:56 Contribute.

1:11:56 Wow.

1:11:56 I love the stories.

1:11:56 The power of cognitive divergence, right?

1:11:58 Which we really underv value I feel like in today's world.

1:12:01 But wow, that was beautiful.

1:12:03 Go.

1:12:03 I love I love little stories cuz I think they're so memorable.

1:12:06 And now every time I see the City Bank logo,

1:12:07 I'm like Paula, that was Paula's work.

1:12:10 That's you know, I heard a very similar story

1:12:11 about this which was I think it's probably um elaborated.

1:12:15 It's about Pablo Picasso.

1:12:16 Oh, yes.

1:12:17 Right.

1:12:17 Where he goes to the restaurant and then um he does

1:12:20 he doesn't pay and he draws something for them and they're like,

1:12:22 "This is not worth the dinner." And he was like, "No,

1:12:24 this is my whole life's work that made me draw something

1:12:27 in two seconds for you." But no, I I love that.

1:12:29 That's really putting everything into perspective again.

1:12:32 Are we done with the four?

1:12:34 Yes, we're done with the four.

1:12:35 Yeah, we kind of given the overview of the four.

1:12:37 What's my Oh, yes.

1:12:39 So, well, I I I would suggest that your Let me ask you a few questions.

1:12:43 Do you have an undercurrent of anxiety

1:12:45 that leads to some overthinking maybe at night?

1:12:48 Okay, great.

1:12:48 So, yeah.

1:12:48 So, that's kind of like no low and conditional adaptability.

1:12:51 Yeah.

1:12:52 So, your your profile we call it the anxious overachiever

1:12:55 where it's super common.

1:12:56 It's extremely common in people who have achieved

1:12:58 and so many people can relate to this.

1:13:01 In fact, in the quiz that we've developed where people

1:13:02 can do it online and then get a personalized report,

1:13:05 we had like three beta testers

1:13:08 and someone completed it and got this exact profile and then I sent her like

1:13:11 here's what it means about you and she's like how did you know that?

1:13:14 This is exactly me.

1:13:15 So it's very insightful because it helps us understand more about us.

1:13:18 Okay.

1:13:18 So you are the anxious overachiever.

1:13:20 The weaknesses or the challenges you

1:13:22 have is this prioritization on other people.

1:13:27 Yeah.

1:13:26 Wanting to be approved of and liked.

1:13:28 Mhm.

1:13:29 You again, it's conditional.

1:13:31 So, if you're around people who like you, it's fine.

1:13:33 But it's when they don't that you really feel it.

1:13:35 You have no qualms in your abilities,

1:13:38 which means you've been able to achieve amazing things in your business.

1:13:40 Setting this up, doing this podcast, you can approach people new,

1:13:44 totally fine so long as they like you, you're but it's it it can still be

1:13:49 a little bit conditional depending on who you're with.

1:13:51 So if someone is again, but you've been on this journey,

1:13:54 but someone is trying to attack,

1:13:55 oh, you're an influencer now or this or you might have some of that come back.

1:13:59 Your autonomy is extremely high.

1:14:01 So you simply focus on what you can do.

1:14:03 That's your greatest strength.

1:14:06 Okay?

1:14:05 You just again, you don't complain.

1:14:07 You don't have blame towards other people or resentment or frustration.

1:14:10 You just get on with what you need to get on with.

1:14:12 And the great thing about this one is

1:14:14 this is also a predictor of really happy relationships.

1:14:18 Oh, yeah.

1:14:17 Cuz you focus more on you and what you can do.

1:14:20 and also the other person assuming they also do the same.

1:14:23 But it's that undercurrent of anxiety that's fueling

1:14:27 that desire to people please and that desire to seek approval.

1:14:30 And so if you can develop strategies to work on that anxiety

1:14:35 and then also separate that the thought from the action and the feeling,

1:14:39 you're going to absolutely soar.

1:14:40 Wow.

1:14:41 Well, this felt like therapy.

1:14:42 I'm glad.

1:14:43 I'm glad this felt like proper therapy.

1:14:46 But listen, I'm going to ask you a question because you

1:14:48 you've obviously spent a long amount of time on, you know,

1:14:52 working on yourself, rewiring your own brain,

1:14:54 and now you're helping millions around the world to do the same.

1:14:57 But, you know, one thing that happens, you know,

1:15:00 there's the the bucket of crabs phenomenon that happens,

1:15:03 right, where it's like when someone is trying to get out,

1:15:06 where you start to work on yourself,

1:15:08 you start to feel like people around you have something to say about it.

1:15:12 So then, how do you approach this?

1:15:13 Because one thing I've been experiencing personally,

1:15:16 I've heard people experience is that whenever

1:15:18 you are changing in life for the better, where you're working on yourself,

1:15:22 you do get judgment and sometimes you no longer fit in circles that you used

1:15:26 to fit in, but you haven't reached the next circle where you're meant to reach.

1:15:29 So, how do you approach this?

1:15:31 This is so incredibly common and it keeps so many of us stuck

1:15:35 because we want other people to be happy with us,

1:15:37 especially our loved ones and our families,

1:15:39 and we don't want to evolve so much that they don't recognize us anymore.

1:15:43 M and so what we hear a lot of what I heard

1:15:45 a lot of when I was on this journey is you've changed

1:15:47 you've changed and it's never coming

1:15:49 from a positive connotation it's always a negative

1:15:52 you are not the person that I thought you were and that doesn't

1:15:55 feel good for someone who is also a recovering people pleaser you often

1:15:58 then want to prove them wrong no I I'm the same I swear look I'm still the same

1:16:03 yeah and then you might revert to old ways of thinking

1:16:05 and behaviors because you want to make them feel more comfortable

1:16:08 so what we've learned is that whenever someone

1:16:10 is saying you've changed don't take it personally.

1:16:13 It's a reflection of them.

1:16:15 You have outgrown the mold that they kept you in that little bucket

1:16:20 and it makes them feel uncomfortable.

1:16:21 And it could be because your growth is shining

1:16:24 a spotlight on ways that they have not grown.

1:16:26 Your growth is making them feel insecure.

1:16:29 They feel like they no longer can relate to you.

1:16:31 That's their journey, not yours.

1:16:33 So, the best response in those moments we found is three words.

1:16:36 Thanks for noticing.

1:16:38 You've changed.

1:16:39 Thanks for noticing.

1:16:40 And then you can throw on a follow-up which is growth has

1:16:43 been a priority for me or I've been really working on this.

1:16:47 You instantly flip it into a positive.

1:16:49 You take what otherwise is undercutting and turn it into a compliment

1:16:53 which makes you feel better because growth should be the point, right?

1:16:56 If you're not changing, you're not growing.

1:16:58 That's a problem.

1:17:00 It also allows them to start thinking differently

1:17:02 about their observation and give them permission to acknowledge,

1:17:06 hey, well, if that growth was a priority for this person and they've changed,

1:17:10 maybe I can make growth a priority for me, I can change, too.

1:17:14 So, that's one thing to keep in mind, the power of thanks for noticing.

1:17:18 The other one is when you're evolving and moving in these different circles,

1:17:22 you have to get really good at being in the middle of two and not fitting

1:17:28 because it happens.

1:17:29 Mhm.

1:17:29 And when you're in that middle stage,

1:17:30 so you've outgrown your current circle, you're not yet in the next one.

1:17:33 There's very few people there, right?

1:17:35 It's might be a line,

1:17:36 you and one other person or you and your husband, like whatever it is.

1:17:41 Just get comfortable being there.

1:17:42 Know it's part of your journey of growth.

1:17:43 That discomfort is not a sign that you should stop.

1:17:46 In fact, it's a sign that you are

1:17:47 stretching and you're growing and you should keep going.

1:17:49 M we know that when we experience discomfort,

1:17:52 the brain takes it as a threat and wants

1:17:54 to keep us safe because discomfort requires a lot

1:17:56 of metabolic energy and part of the brain's

1:17:58 job is to keep us surviving using as least,

1:18:02 you know, the least amount of metabolic energy as possible.

1:18:05 Discomfort is metabolically consuming.

1:18:08 But we also know that when you're facing discomfort,

1:18:11 it triggers the release of neurotropic factor in the brain

1:18:14 which are learning proteins.

1:18:16 That's how we learn.

1:18:17 That's how we grow.

1:18:18 That's how we tap into this idea of neuroplasticity and create new pathways.

1:18:23 So the way I like to think of it is discomfort is the barrier or rather

1:18:27 discomfort is the entry requirement for growth.

1:18:30 So lean into it.

1:18:33 Now that doesn't mean you're constantly leaning into discomfort

1:18:35 all the time cuz you're probably burned out.

1:18:37 Have moments when you come back and you're like,

1:18:38 I'm going to spend the day on my counter today or like

1:18:40 for us ladies knowing cyclically when is the right time to do that.

1:18:44 But it is incredibly powerful when we can get better at doing that.

1:18:47 and know that not everyone's going to be

1:18:50 with you on your journey for every stage.

1:18:53 Unfortunately, a lot of people I used to have in my circles

1:18:57 are now not in my circles and they've opted out.

1:19:00 I keep reaching out to them.

1:19:01 I they don't again I don't know what's going on for them.

1:19:06 So, I'm still going to be the person

1:19:07 that checks in with them and sees how they're doing,

1:19:08 but they're not coming with me on the journey by choice.

1:19:12 So, it's going to happen.

1:19:13 But the way you also can think about it is every time you're upgrading yourself,

1:19:17 you can upgrade your circle and that's okay.

1:19:19 And that's okay.

1:19:20 I think honestly the main learnings we're getting

1:19:22 from this conversation is that discomfort is good.

1:19:25 It's okay.

1:19:26 It means it's a good sign.

1:19:28 And also for us to stop chasing perfectionism because that that is

1:19:32 rooted in things that we should not be feeling anyway.

1:19:35 and is just accepting who we are, recognizing the wise under the wise,

1:19:39 and then working towards how do we make it better for ourselves.

1:19:43 Um, but we've talked a lot about the professional aspect of life, right?

1:19:46 And I think we're I know we're running out of time.

1:19:48 We could have done this for like hours.

1:19:50 You could have done like a whole day and split it up one profession.

1:19:54 But one thing I want to tell you personally from someone who didn't know

1:19:57 you before now and I've been watching you is it's so refreshing to see

1:20:02 someone like you who is like an ambitious woman doing what you want to do

1:20:06 and chasing it in whatever imperfect way but finding a way to get there.

1:20:11 And the one thing that strikes me with you is how

1:20:14 you've managed to do everything in life right personal and professional.

1:20:18 I know you keep your life very private, but you have a very balanced life.

1:20:21 And I think a lot of ambitious women in today's

1:20:24 time are being told that you have to make a choice.

1:20:26 You can't have it all.

1:20:28 And maybe you can't have it all at the same time.

1:20:31 But there is that question of ambitious women.

1:20:34 It's hard to find a man that will be supportive.

1:20:36 But I know that you even proposed to your husband

1:20:39 and I know that he's such an active part of the business,

1:20:42 of the book, everything.

1:20:44 So tell us how did you which which lamb did you rub?

1:20:47 Where do we find it?

1:20:48 I know.

1:20:49 Where do we find more like him?

1:20:50 No, I I look I do believe that there is

1:20:52 an element of being in the right place at the right

1:20:56 time to meet the person that is eventually going

1:20:58 to be the one that you have as your life partner.

1:21:01 If I wasn't there the night that I met him, I maybe never would.

1:21:04 You know, there's all these things that can happen.

1:21:06 But I also I'm a big believer in being on the journey

1:21:09 of growth because if I had met him 10 years earlier,

1:21:13 I probably wouldn't have recognized that he is the person

1:21:15 I wanted to spend my life with because I wouldn't have

1:21:18 had enough life experience or been growing enough or maybe he

1:21:21 wouldn't have been interested in me because I wasn't, you know,

1:21:24 commit to your own growth.

1:21:26 Oh, I I have this really nice um exercise I like to share with people,

1:21:30 and it's because I didn't do this, but I kind of wish I had.

1:21:35 Write down your 2B list, which is all the qualities that you want to be.

1:21:42 Mhm.

1:21:41 And then you want to write down your like

1:21:45 what you're looking for in the other person list.

1:21:47 What are all the qualities that you want in that other person?

1:21:49 Mhm.

1:21:50 And then you need to have a look at both lists

1:21:52 and make sure they're identical because you cannot attract what you are not.

1:21:58 You cannot attract.

1:21:59 Now I say that and it sounds powerful but the truth is you can.

1:22:03 But I I always like to be really pragmatic and think if you want

1:22:06 someone who is going to have this, this, and this you be that first

1:22:11 because then you will know when you meet them and then

1:22:13 they will probably also appreciate that they're meeting their equal, right?

1:22:17 That's so important.

1:22:18 meeting your equal whatever that means

1:22:20 for each person is going to be different but for me

1:22:23 it was values first you know how they say opposites attract

1:22:26 I was about to ask you what about opposites attract

1:22:28 opposites attract I think because it's fun and it's different

1:22:30 but in terms of opposites lasting

1:22:33 it entirely in my personal experience comes down to values

1:22:38 values because values get expressed in behavior and life choices

1:22:42 and if you are not aligned on those values pieces

1:22:46 there are going to be challenges that will arise Mhm.

1:22:49 And sometimes it's really difficult to agree to disagree when it's a value.

1:22:52 Like, oh, you're okay with lying?

1:22:54 Well, I'm not.

1:22:55 How do we agree to you're okay with cheating that business?

1:22:57 I'm not.

1:22:59 So, if you can try and get to the values question,

1:23:03 and again, you need to be aware there

1:23:05 are I call it professed versus expressed values.

1:23:08 What does that mean?

1:23:09 professed values are, you know,

1:23:11 that person that you meet who's constantly sharing about how

1:23:14 they're so serviceoriented and they want to create a bigger

1:23:17 world and they're so patient and they know all

1:23:20 of their values and they will share it and then you're like,

1:23:21 "Huh, where in your life are you demonstrating these things?

1:23:25 I don't see it." And so that's professed.

1:23:27 You can someone can say anything they want about

1:23:30 who they think they are and what their values are.

1:23:32 You need to look at how it's being demonstrated.

1:23:35 Mhm.

1:23:35 Because that is the real measure of someone's character.

1:23:37 Mhm.

1:23:38 the degree to which they translate their professed values into expressed values.

1:23:45 Mhm.

1:23:44 And so for me again I think part of it was luck,

1:23:48 part of it was divine intervention.

1:23:51 I met somebody who finally so my mom

1:23:53 was always asking me what are you looking for?

1:23:55 And I didn't know.

1:23:56 I actually didn't really know what I was looking for and I couldn't

1:23:59 even articulate it cuz I didn't know which values were more important to me.

1:24:02 But then I met him and the next day I called up my mom and I said

1:24:07 I've met someone that has the values of what I'm looking for.

1:24:09 I didn't say I'm going to marry him because it wasn't like that.

1:24:11 It was just I finally met someone that has what I now know is what I wanted

1:24:17 and then thankfully I ended up marrying him.

1:24:19 But that was not at all the the intention initially.

1:24:21 It was just again focusing on values, behaviors.

1:24:24 But you know it's crazy how many people don't even know what their values are.

1:24:27 You know when you ask people what are your values?

1:24:29 Oh, you know what the question is to help you?

1:24:32 What are you willing to sacrifice and what are you not willing to sacrifice?

1:24:37 Mhm.

1:24:36 That's really helpful because it's almost like

1:24:39 determine what you're not versus what you are sometimes

1:24:42 is easier than trying to figure out what you are.

1:24:44 So, you could say, okay, well, let's say honesty.

1:24:49 Mhm.

1:24:48 Would you be willing to lie for money?

1:24:51 And if you would, then honesty is not your value.

1:24:54 But if you wouldn't, then okay, that's one of your values.

1:24:56 family.

1:24:57 Would you be willing to leave your family for a month or 2

1:25:01 months and go off and have some amazing opportunity and then come back?

1:25:05 If you would, okay, family might still be important, but it's not

1:25:08 really a value.

1:25:09 Or maybe it's different.

1:25:10 Maybe it's no, no, I would go and do

1:25:11 that because that's going to earn me a lot of money.

1:25:13 It'll help them.

1:25:14 So again, that's just another way of expressing it.

1:25:16 But when you can work through this way and you determine

1:25:18 what am I willing to sacrifice versus what is a non-negotiable,

1:25:21 that's how you determine your true values.

1:25:23 M so in my view of course and so would you say that it is possible

1:25:27 for ambitious women to find men that are supportive of their career?

1:25:30 Absolutely.

1:25:31 Okay.

1:25:31 Absolutely.

1:25:31 And you must it's not worth compromising

1:25:34 unless you if you are driven if you have aspirations

1:25:39 and you are not with someone who can support that.

1:25:43 Oh it's tricky to say this cuz there may be people who are in that position.

1:25:47 You are always going to struggle.

1:25:49 you're never going to feel like you're

1:25:51 excelling and being everything that you can be.

1:25:53 And for some women, they then recalibrate because they really

1:25:56 do value the other values they have with, you know,

1:25:59 in alignment with that person and they

1:26:01 recalibrate and they might shrink a little

1:26:03 and then they're content with that and that's okay.

1:26:06 But it's just making sure that you're not compromising

1:26:09 and you absolutely can find someone who is your equal

1:26:12 who can support you and likewise you can support them.

1:26:15 Mhm.

1:26:16 So Shi, what's next for you now?

1:26:18 Tell us when is the book coming out?

1:26:20 Where can people find it?

1:26:22 So, it is going to so it'll be anywhere books are sold.

1:26:25 You can grab it.

1:26:26 We have a whole lot planned.

1:26:28 One thing I would encourage anyone listening is

1:26:29 if you resonated with this, do the free quiz.

1:26:31 Figure out what your doubt profile is

1:26:33 because it's just an insight into, oh, this is why I'm overthinking.

1:26:37 This is why that's so difficult.

1:26:38 This is why I struggle to speak up in meetings.

1:26:40 Or this is why I've been able to be successful

1:26:42 is because I'm leaning on this even though that one's weak.

1:26:44 So, go on the website shazar.com/bigtrust.

1:26:47 We'll link it there.

1:26:49 But next for me, I mean,

1:26:51 I only just finished the PhD last year and then the book I was Yeah.

1:26:55 Well, the book was during it.

1:26:56 It was meant to be three and a half years.

1:26:57 It was more than five.

1:26:58 You love writing, don't you?

1:27:00 Well, no.

1:27:01 Now I've realized, you know, it's funny.

1:27:03 I wouldn't really claim I'm a writer in Well, okay.

1:27:07 No, let me rephrase that.

1:27:08 I'm a writer by way of behavior.

1:27:10 Yes, I wrote a book.

1:27:10 But in terms of like identifying with being a writer,

1:27:13 being an author, it's not really something I identify with.

1:27:16 similar to like content creation.

1:27:18 I don't really identify with being a content creator.

1:27:20 I create content, yes,

1:27:22 but there's so many other things that are more closely aligned with who I am.

1:27:27 So, writing the book was really hard, I'll tell you this much.

1:27:30 But I'm so proud of what it is because the feedback that people are sharing are,

1:27:34 you know, anyone who's had this opportunity to go

1:27:37 through it and just those moments of insight.

1:27:41 The thing with self-awareness which is super interesting is

1:27:44 we think with self-awareness life gets easier.

1:27:47 It doesn't.

1:27:48 Life actually gets more challenging but it's so much better.

1:27:52 Yes.

1:27:52 Because then yes there's challenge,

1:27:53 yes there's discomfort but we are growing like there's nothing else because

1:27:57 problem solving as well.

1:27:58 completely and that's you know with self awareness you need

1:28:00 to make sure there is the problem solving piece too

1:28:03 because otherwise if you just end with the awareness

1:28:06 pretty challenging and dampening and disappointing

1:28:10 and there might be shame and guilt and

1:28:12 but then shift into okay no how am I going to use this to be better to improve

1:28:16 to take that and accept to create the life

1:28:18 that I know I deserve and that I want for myself

1:28:21 I cannot believe that this is my life I cannot believe that I get to do

1:28:26 this and I will acknowledge not everyone has

1:28:28 the luxury of being able to pursue what they love.

1:28:31 I'm so fortunate like touch wood.

1:28:33 Touch wood.

1:28:34 Yeah.

1:28:34 Yeah.

1:28:34 Yeah.

1:28:34 Touch wood.

1:28:35 Like where's the wood?

1:28:36 Touch the paper.

1:28:36 I'm so fortunate.

1:28:37 I have had the privilege of being able to create a life that I love.

1:28:41 And so now my my role is just to help people get out

1:28:44 of their own way so that they can create the life that they wish to lead.

1:28:48 For some people that's going to be staying in a corporate organization.

1:28:52 I have a cousin who's like, "How do you do what you do?

1:28:54 I want to go to work, do my work, leave, and not think about it." Mhm.

1:28:58 So, different people have different zones of genius and areas they enjoy.

1:29:01 But if we can get out of our own way, stop being the ones blocking us,

1:29:06 then we get to really tap into who am I?

1:29:08 What do I want?

1:29:09 What are my instincts?

1:29:10 And that is a beautiful thing.

1:29:11 And that's what we call big trust.

1:29:12 The state of big trust where it's no longer you

1:29:15 doubting yourself that defines your decisions and who you are.

1:29:19 It's you fully trusting.

1:29:20 You can do whatever you want.

1:29:21 And then you have to figure out, well, what is that?

1:29:23 M final question that we ask everyone.

1:29:26 What's your biggest dream?

1:29:28 My biggest dream is that people are able to live lives where they can

1:29:33 achieve whatever happiness and growth and fulfillment

1:29:37 looks like for them and they no longer feel like they are living for other

1:29:43 people or under the oppressive thumb of people

1:29:47 pleasing or the need for validation or all of those weights that we carry.

1:29:52 And so much of the work that I do is really to help people do that.

1:29:56 To be the one that believes in them when no one else does,

1:29:58 to give them tools to help them work through that.

1:30:00 Because I genuinely believe that when we trust ourselves more,

1:30:03 we trust other people more.

1:30:05 And when we trust other people more,

1:30:06 that's when we can truly come together in unity.

1:30:09 And when we come together in unity,

1:30:11 that's when we can have a huge impact on fundamentally improving the world.

1:30:17 Ch, it's been an absolute pleasure.

1:30:19 This has been so much fun.

1:30:20 Really, you know how they say don't meet your heroes.

1:30:22 This was incredible.

1:30:24 Honestly, you're as warm, as eloquent as you are online,

1:30:27 and it's been such a pleasure.

1:30:29 I can't wait for the success of the book, and thank you so much for being here.

1:30:33 I'm sure we'll do so much more together.

1:30:35 I can't wait.

1:30:35 I'm so looking forward to Thank you for having me.

1:30:37 I'm so honored to be here.