The Government IS the Cartel? A DEA Insider Names Names (w/ Hector Berrellez)

0:01 I'm going to get down to the brass tacks here.

0:03 Governments are corrupt.

0:05 Governments are uh basically making these cartels.

0:11 They are cartels.

0:12 They are the real cartels.

0:14 Like in Mexico, the governments are the real cartels.

0:16 I mean, when when when when they get tired of a trafficker,

0:19 they either kill him or arrest him.

0:21 But they demand that these guys go out and make money.

0:24 Total corruptness.

0:26 And you know what's really sad, Vince?

0:29 We're as corrupt here and more corrupt than what the Mexicans

0:32 The opinions of the guests and host are

0:34 their own and do not represent the opinions of Ironclad,

0:37 the Border Patrol, or the Department of Homeland Security.

0:50 Welcome to Borderland Narcosis, an Ironclad original presented by First Form.

0:54 Go get your First Form supplements at firstform.com/borderland.

0:58 I'm waiting for my shipment right now.

1:00 My next guest is Hector Berrellez,

1:02 who is a career DEA agent, did undercover work for many years,

1:06 and is well as one of the lead investigators for the Kiki Camarena case.

1:10 He was the one who broke the door open, who spoke about the CIA being involved.

1:14 You guys will love this interview.

1:16 To set the stage for people who may not know some of the headlines,

1:19 can you walk us through what happened

1:21 with Kiki Camarena in 1985 and why his murder

1:24 became one of the most consequential moments

1:27 in the history of the DEA and modern drug war?

1:31 Well, when when uh when I took over the the supervision of the Camarena case,

1:36 the DEA had been involved in investigating his murder for 5 years.

1:41 And they had not in those 5 years

1:43 been able to get or recruit witnesses that were

1:49 at the scene that could walk us through the crime

1:53 as to basically tell us who partici- who planned it,

1:57 who participated in it, who tortured him, and how did he die?

2:02 None of those questions had been answered in 5 years.

2:05 So, when I took the case, I was brought back to Washington,

2:08 and I was asked if I could recruit um witnesses.

2:12 I told them that I could, but it would be very it would be very hard

2:16 to recruit anybody that had been present when Camarena was being interrogated,

2:22 tortured, and finally murdered.

2:24 Because I said any witness that we bring up here

2:27 um we're going to have to bring his whole family,

2:30 I said, because they are so ruthless,

2:34 they will execute his whole anybody's whole family that that cooperates.

2:38 So, they said they were they would be ready to do that.

2:40 I said, "We we can do that.

2:41 We can get immigration to bring in their whole families." I said,

2:44 "We're going to have to do that.

2:46 I can recruit people that were there." And they said, "Well,

2:50 can you get us at least one witness that can

2:53 that can tell us what happened in the killing room?

2:56 We know he was killed at 881 Lope de Vega.

2:59 We've got hairs and samples and everything else out of forensics out of there,

3:04 but we don't have anybody that can walk us through the crime,

3:06 that can say, "This is what happened." And I told them,

3:10 "I believe I can do that for you." And uh they said,

3:13 "Okay." Then they said um "Hector is this can you um could you kidnap

3:20 somebody for us?" But the way they didn't put it was in those words.

3:23 So, I remember it was a very official meeting in Washington.

3:26 And they said, "We'd like to know if we could um have you

3:29 participate and help us with an extraterritorial

3:32 rendition." I'll never forget those words.

3:35 And I said, "What does that mean?" And they kind of laughed and they said,

3:39 "Well, uh a kidnapping, actually.

3:40 A legal kidnapping." And I said, "Yeah, I can do that." And uh of course,

3:47 they already knew that I had done that type of before for the other agency.

3:51 And they said, "Okay, uh can you do that?" And I said,

3:53 "Yes." "How long will it take you to to kidnap

3:57 um somebody and what would it cost?" And I said,

3:59 "Well, the cost will depend on who you want me to kidnap.

4:03 I said, "If you want me to kidnap the president of Mexico,

4:05 it's going to be quite expensive." And they kind of laughed and said,

4:08 "No, no, no, we don't we don't we're not going to ask you to do that." He said,

4:11 "We'd like you to kidnap the doctor that that injected

4:15 drugs into Camarena while he was being interrogated

4:19 because that he was injected with lidocaine uh because

4:25 of the uh the the autopsy results." I said,

4:28 "Okay." I said, "We you you you want We want you to kidnap the doctor.

4:33 His name is Humberto Humberto Alvarez Machain." I said,

4:38 "I can do that." He said, "Well,

4:40 how much would it cost?" And I said,

4:42 "He That that won't cost a lot of money." I said,

4:44 "I could probably do that for about $250,000."

4:48 And they looked at me and they said, "Okay, can you do it?" I said,

4:51 "Yeah." "How long will it take you?" "It's a couple of weeks." They go, "What?

4:56 That fast?" And I said, "That fast." He says,

5:01 "How you going to do it?" I said, "I'm not going to do it.

5:04 You know how the traffic is higher cops to do the dirty work?

5:08 To kidnap people, execute people, decapitate people?

5:12 They pay them.

5:13 I'll hire the cops to work for me to do a kidnapping for me." He says,

5:18 "You know cops that will do that?" I said,

5:19 "Of course, I work with them in Mexico all the time.

5:22 I know comandantes are friends of mine and they

5:24 work for the cartels and they work for us both.

5:26 They work for money.

5:29 They're like prostitutes.

5:30 I said, "You know, a woman a prostitute

5:32 doesn't choose who she's going to take money from.

5:33 She'll take money from whoever you got the money and then do whatever they,

5:36 you know, want they want done." So they said, "Okay, do it." So we did.

5:42 I kidnapped uh the doctor, had him kidnapped and we brought him to the bar

5:45 of justice here in the uh in the US.

5:48 So, yeah, those are the kind of things

5:50 that major things that I was involved involved in.

5:53 But, let's go back.

5:55 You asked me earlier about corruption.

5:57 My biggest disappointment in investigating the uh

6:01 the murder of Camarena was that I

6:03 found out that the CIA was bringing in tons of cocaine to Rancho Vera Cruz,

6:11 which was owned by Rafael Caro Quintero.

6:14 And in 32 uh listening to the Camarena more uh torture tapes,

6:20 which I had brought to my house one night and had

6:22 a few beers with him while I was listening to them,

6:25 I remember that they asked Kiki Camarena,

6:28 "What do you know about Rancho Vera Cruz?" And Camarena said,

6:33 "Well, I know that I just opened up an investigation and I know

6:36 that they were bringing in a lot of cocaine through there." And they asked him,

6:42 "Oh, yeah?" He says Kiki says Camarena answered,

6:44 "Yes." He says that while he was being tortured.

6:47 And he said, "And how did you find out about that?" He said,

6:51 "Well," he said, "a comandante told me about it.

6:56 He said they were bringing in tons of cocaine there."

6:58 And then they slapped Camarena and you're hearing him being tortured.

7:01 He says, "How did the comandante know about the a lot

7:04 of cocaine being brought through Rancho Vera Cruz?" And Kiki answered,

7:08 "Because comandante Lo Rabacho has uh Caro Quintero's wiretapped and that's

7:16 why I just started the investigation." And they asked Camarena,

7:20 "What do you know about the CIA's involvement?" He said,

7:22 "I don't know nothing about that.

7:23 I don't I don't know what you guys are talking about." He didn't.

7:26 Camarena didn't know.

7:28 What What was occurring was and I know this because

7:33 I recruited a CIA operative with the name of Lawrence Harrison.

7:37 I made him a double agent and made him an informant of ours.

7:41 And very Lawrence Harrison was the one that told me that the NSC,

7:46 the CIA was bringing in a a lot of cocaine through Rancho Veracruz,

7:51 Caro Quintero's ranch in Costa Rica.

7:54 This is the real reason why Camarena was picked up.

7:59 Camarena was not supposed to be killed.

8:01 Kiki was blindfolded.

8:03 When you're going to kill somebody in traffic was not going to kill somebody,

8:07 they don't need to blindfold them.

8:09 They wanted to know what Kiki knew about CIA operations,

8:13 NSC operations at at Caro Quintero's ranch at Veracruz.

8:18 And Larry Harrison, who was a CIA operative,

8:20 who had basically he was a an electronics expert.

8:24 He has sent He has set up ground-to-air

8:27 communications for Rancho Veracruz for the CIA planes.

8:31 They were coming in full of cocaine

8:33 and were leaving going south full of weapons.

8:36 Weapons that they were providing to the Contras who

8:39 were fighting against the Daniel Ortega communist regime, the Contras.

8:44 Now, the reason, and I want to make it clear,

8:47 the reason that the CIA was involved

8:50 in clandestinely arming the Contras was because in 1980,

8:56 the CIA and the NIS the DIA had gone

9:00 to to the to the to the to the administration and asked

9:04 for funding of the Contras and provided military assistance

9:09 to the Contras against the Sandinista communist regime of Daniel Ortega.

9:15 Congress denied providing any type of funding

9:19 or military assistance to the Contras.

9:22 Why?

9:23 Because we had just come out of a war

9:24 in Vietnam where we had just had our butts kicked.

9:28 And Congress knew that the that the that the people of the United

9:32 States were not going to want to get involved in another major war.

9:36 So, that's what the CIA decided to do

9:39 it clandestinely undercover from the war using drug money.

9:46 And this is why Camarena was brought in, tortured,

9:49 and interrogated to see what he knew because at the time

9:55 the CIA and the NSC were already in trouble.

9:58 They were already being investigated for providing missiles

10:01 to to the name our nemesis, the Iranians.

10:03 And they were already under it's rank and file for them.

10:06 They were already under investigation and they

10:07 didn't want this drug connection to be exposed.

10:12 And they were afraid that Kiki was going

10:13 to expose it and that's why Camarena was picked up.

10:20 Man, that's crazy.

10:22 There's some people that would say that those allegations are impossible.

10:25 What would you say to those skeptics who struggle to believe that US

10:29 intelligence operations could be uh intersecting

10:32 or being a part of the cartel activity?

10:35 Well, you know, people at first when I exposed I exposed it it was a what,

10:39 20 years ago when I first retired from the DEA,

10:42 I exposed it and everybody pooh-poohed it and said,

10:44 "Oh, it's it's all conspiracy theory.

10:47 Um Berraz is is is full of it.

10:50 He's just trying to make a name for himself." Which I might with the last narc.

10:53 I don't know if you saw the last narc.

10:54 It's all there.

10:55 Uh where we exposed the whole CIA um involvement in in um bringing in drugs

11:01 and also having them in having their hand in in in in in Camarena's murder.

11:05 Uh however, you know, they are still covering it up.

11:08 They still look the other way.

11:10 The witnesses, by the way, Vince, they're available.

11:13 They're still alive.

11:14 And they saw Aldo Fernandez meet with cartel guys.

11:18 They saw uh Tellis Rodriguez, a operative, also meet with Mexican cartels.

11:24 They were there at meetings.

11:26 So, they're not dead.

11:28 I mean, they've been polygraphed.

11:29 They They want to ignore it.

11:31 And as a matter of fact,

11:32 I want to make something very clear and announce it in your show.

11:37 Do you know that Caro Quintero has been brought in?

11:41 Uh and it was announced that he was going

11:43 to be he was the one that had had killed

11:45 Kiki Camarena and that he was going to be basically

11:48 punished to the Donald President Trump went forward and said,

11:52 "Oh, he's going to be punished to the full extent

11:53 of the law." Do you know that to this day

11:56 they have not brought Caro Quintero to face

11:59 charges on Kiki's murder Central District of Los Angeles?

12:03 He's being tried for RICO RICO RICO charges and CCE charges in New York.

12:11 They're not even going to try him for Kiki's murder.

12:12 You know why?

12:13 Because all this stuff the CIA involvement would come out.

12:18 Even a one one one experience one year experience lawyer defense

12:23 attorney would bring this up in the defense of Caro Quintero.

12:25 So, therefore, they're not they're not

12:27 charging Caro Quintero with Kiki's murder.

12:30 So, the CIA still to this day is not admitted to any of that?

12:33 Of course not.

12:33 They'll never admit it.

12:37 Looking to add some flavor to your work day?

12:39 Firecracker Farm has you covered.

12:42 From April 20th through April 24th,

12:45 they're giving you the chance to win a special batch giveaway.

12:48 The prize includes a rugged ammo can with custom walnut holders inside packed

12:54 with their signature salts that bring serious

12:56 flavor and heat to whatever you're working with.

12:59 Upgrade your life with Firecracker Farm.

13:08 This episode is brought to you by First Form,

13:10 a company that I've been proud to work with for over 11 years.

13:12 I don't say this lightly.

13:14 These guys aren't just about supplements.

13:16 They're about building a community, holding you accountable,

13:19 and helping people actually change their lives.

13:21 Their products are top-notch, third-party tested,

13:23 and designed to help you perform harder, recover faster, and feel your best.

13:27 And if you haven't tried their protein sticks, well, you're missing out.

13:30 They're great, packed with protein, convenient, and ridiculously good.

13:34 Right now, they have an exclusive deal for Borderland listeners.

13:36 Buy any First Form product,

13:37 and you'll get a free five-pack of protein sticks with your order.

13:41 Head to firstform.com/borderland to claim your free pack while supplies last.

13:46 Again, that's firstform.com/borderland.

13:49 Purchase any product and get a free five-pack of protein sticks.

13:53 Trust me, they're worth it.

13:58 You said in the that the following that when you were following the truth about

14:02 Camarena that you took you to places

14:04 that Washington didn't Washington didn't want you looking.

14:07 What are those places?

14:08 They told me to leave it alone.

14:09 He said, "You We We want you to concentrate

14:12 on the Mexican cartel guys that were involved in Kiki's murder.

14:15 The CIA uh basically alleged involvement uh will

14:20 be will be investigated by the Inspector General's office.

14:24 You don't have jurisdiction to investigate another federal agency, Hector.

14:28 So, write everything down, report everything,

14:32 and will forward those reports to the Inspector General.

14:35 However, when I became suspicious,

14:38 is they told me do not report anything on DEA official reports, DEA 6s.

14:44 Report everything on on memorandums.

14:47 And you know what those memorandums and what can happen to those memorandums,

14:52 they can just be disappeared.

14:54 So, I thought and I believed that the Inspector General

14:57 was going to investigate the CIA's involved in this stuff.

15:01 They never did.

15:04 To this day.

15:05 Did you At any point, did you feel At any point,

15:07 did you feel any pressure to stop digging?

15:09 Like, were you getting death threats?

15:11 Were you getting anything that was pushing you to maybe I should stop?

15:14 basically ordered to stop, and when I wouldn't stop,

15:17 they took me off the case and sent me

15:18 to Washington and put me on a desk with no job.

15:24 Wow.

15:24 What year was that?

15:25 the movies for 2 years in Washington DC.

15:31 I've never heard it I've never heard it put that way.

15:34 Well, that would be an ice in other words and I I didn't have much to do in DC.

15:38 So, I wouldn't get bored at the office.

15:39 I would go and see every movie that was available.

15:41 I saw some movies two or three times.

15:46 That's crazy.

15:48 Do you believe that the full story

15:49 of Kiki Camarena will ever be officially released?

15:52 No, they're going to cover it up because it goes way back up.

15:55 I mean, what you what you talk about is Ismael Rodriguez.

15:59 The agent that interrogated Camarena,

16:01 the CIA operative they interrogated Camarena.

16:04 He's very tight with old man Bush.

16:06 As a matter of fact,

16:07 when old man Bush uh first became vice president after leaving the CIA,

16:12 he brought Felix Rodriguez Ismael Felix Rodriguez, the Cuban guy.

16:15 He brought him to the uh gave him

16:17 an office in the executive building of the White House.

16:20 Um Ismael Felix Rodriguez is an old Cuban guy involved in the Bay of Pigs,

16:26 involved in Watergate, involved in everything.

16:29 He's the one that supposedly be captured Che Guevara in in Bolivia.

16:33 Not true.

16:34 He was he wasn't even there when Che Guevara was captured,

16:36 but later he had to execute it and I and I know because I

16:39 talked to the uh dead couple of them in Bolivia who actually killed Che Guevara.

16:48 This is all crazy information.

16:54 Yeah, I I can't imagine what it felt like for you being a DEA agent and finding

16:59 out that your own government was involved in the murder

17:02 and kidnapping of one of your own agents.

17:06 Did Did that make you feel like you just wanted to stop

17:09 working with the DEA completely or just

17:11 stop working for the government completely?

17:13 I retired the day of the first day when I was when I was eligible for his term,

17:17 and I retired, I had to leave.

17:18 Uh Here Here's the thing, Vince, you know, I'll be honest with you.

17:23 Here we were we were were um capturing, I guess, or or basically seizing planes.

17:34 American planes with 20 tons of cocaine.

17:37 And arresting CIA pilots and stuff.

17:41 And I'm not the only DEA agent that knows this.

17:43 Numerous knew it.

17:45 We were ordered to release them and turn the cocaine back to them.

17:50 And we would ask them why?

17:54 This guy's got 20 tons of cocaine.

17:58 And they would say it's a CIA operation, leave it alone.

18:01 And we were made to believe that the CIA

18:03 was doing some undercover work with the cocaine.

18:06 They were actually giving it to Freeway Rickey Ross who

18:08 was selling it at here in uh in Los Angeles,

18:11 Freeway Rickey Ross.

18:16 Crazy.

18:16 And so then the CIA would get a cut from that money

18:20 and that would help fund them giving more weapons to the contras.

18:23 You know, it takes it takes billions of dollars, Vince, to finance a war.

18:27 We're not talking millions.

18:28 They were they they were more than billions.

18:31 And what's what's surprising is I investigated the whole thing because when I

18:35 was in LA I I got I got into investigating Freeway Rickey Ross,

18:39 the biggest cocaine distributor ever.

18:42 And his suppliers were Danilo Blandon and Edwin Mejia,

18:46 two colonels of the of the contras.

18:50 We arrested Freeway Rickey Ross, got him a life imprisonment.

18:54 And guess who testified against Freeway Rickey Ross?

18:57 The contra guys.

18:59 Who?

18:58 I want to laugh.

18:59 The suppliers testified against Freeway Rickey Ross.

19:05 It's an incredible story.

19:06 I mean It's insane.

19:07 Here's the thing.

19:09 I'm going to I'm going to I'm I'm going to get down to the brass tacks here.

19:14 Governments are corrupt.

19:16 Governments are basically making these cartels.

19:21 They are cartels.

19:23 They are the real cartels.

19:24 Like in Mexico, the governments are the real cartels.

19:28 I mean, when when when when they get tired of a trafficker,

19:30 they either kill him or arrest him.

19:33 But, they demand that these guys go out and make money.

19:38 Total corruptness.

19:39 And you know what's really sad, Vince?

19:42 We're as corrupt here and more corrupt than what the Mexicans.

19:45 Look at the corruption in our country.

19:48 Are you kidding me?

19:49 We're letting terrorists open borders.

19:51 Don't you think somebody was getting handsomely

19:53 paid under the table for stuff like this?

19:55 We have a lot of a lot of corruption in our own government.

20:02 Yeah.

20:02 Yeah, it's been pretty crazy to see how

20:03 money is spent from the immigration side of things, from the drug things.

20:07 I mean, the drug war has been going

20:09 on for so long and has been almost no real impact, no real positive impact.

20:13 And it makes me question why not?

20:15 What's go What's happening?

20:17 Like there's It's almost like there's there's no money in the cure, right?

20:21 And so, keeping keeping drugs prevalent keeps

20:24 the money flowing and somebody's getting paid.

20:27 That's exactly right.

20:29 In Mexico, the government is the biggest cartel

20:33 The Mexican government officials are the biggest cartel.

20:35 Look at how many presidents have been

20:36 implicated as protecting the uh the cartels.

20:40 The former president, López Obrador, Manuel López Obrador,

20:45 right after winning the presidency, who did who did he visit?

20:50 El Chapo's mother.

20:54 It's like somebody being elected president and he

20:56 goes and meets with uh John Gotti's mother.

20:59 Come on.

21:00 Then he comes out.

21:01 He says, "My My philosophy is going to be

21:04 that we're going to handle the uh drug lords with abrazos,

21:08 not balazos, with hugs, not bullets.

21:12 Are you kidding me?

21:14 And we put up with that kind of stuff?

21:17 Here's the thing.

21:18 They just They They They just They just came up

21:21 with this program Shield America where 19 Central and South

21:25 American countries are going to participate in uh disseminating

21:29 this these uh cartels which have

21:32 been basically declared foreign terrorist organizations.

21:35 And they are.

21:37 They are.

21:37 But look at what countries are not participating.

21:40 Mexico, Colombia, Cuba, and Spain.

21:46 I laugh.

21:47 Why don't Why Why don't they want to help

21:49 the uh the other countries do away with the cartels?

21:54 Because they're corrupt.

21:57 There's no other reason.

22:01 Yeah.

22:01 And we put up with it.

22:02 Hi everybody.

22:03 This episode is brought to you by our partners at GhostBed.

22:07 And today I'm actually sitting down with its

22:09 founder Mark Warner to talk about the story

22:12 behind their brand and why they're all in on all of us getting better sleep.

22:17 I've had three neck surgeries over the past 27 years.

22:20 And so I couldn't find a pillow or mattress that worked for me.

22:25 And so I ended up having to invent my own.

22:28 I took great care in it so it would take care of my problems.

22:31 And then I also sleep warm so I invented a lot of quilting

22:34 technologies and got a number of patents on that kind of technology.

22:37 So that was the origin of the purpose.

22:40 Um but I I wanted to start it

22:42 with my wife and then my kids as a family business.

22:45 So my grandfather, after World War I,

22:48 he started the Werner Company which ultimately became Werner Ladder.

22:51 And then my dad invented the aluminum ladder, the machines to make it,

22:55 and then he invented the fiberglass ladder,

22:57 fiberglass, and the machines to make that.

23:00 So I was reared in that environment of quality engineering, inventing,

23:06 all that kind of stuff and I I grew up in that.

23:08 So, when I was starting GhostBed and making

23:10 my own memory foam pillows and mattress,

23:13 that was my my kind of history and allowed me to kind

23:16 of really make a very quality product and that's really how we got started.

23:21 And we're all about high quality and an affordable price.

23:24 So, for for all of our Iron Clad viewers, we have a special offer.

23:29 So, you go to Ghost Bed.com/ironclad and we're giving an extra 15% off,

23:34 which is a really big discount on already low prices.

23:38 So, come to GhostBed, take advantage of that special pricing with Iron

23:41 Clad and enjoy a GhostBed mattress and other products.

23:51 When you compare the cartels that you dealt with in the 1980s

23:54 like the Guadalajara organization to the cartels we have today,

23:57 how have they evolved?

23:59 They evolved because they they're all basically

24:03 are protected by the government of Mexico.

24:07 So, if you are giving money to generals,

24:11 you're giving money to government officials,

24:15 you have impunity to do whatever the hell you want.

24:17 You can kill who you want.

24:19 You can basically do whatever you want.

24:22 You can rape women.

24:23 You can They have extermination camps.

24:27 People that have opposed them, they picked up like students at one point.

24:31 They picked up 40 42 students and and killed them all and burned their bodies.

24:35 They're they're found more than one extermination

24:38 camp where people have been burned to death.

24:41 Where else do you would you see that we saw it in with the Nazis?

24:45 No other country has extermination camps like they have in Mexico.

24:49 They are very vicious.

24:51 They they love they love to get an opponent or a a law

24:54 enforcement officer and they like to they they like to castrate him,

24:58 they like to pull their nails out, they like to decapitate him.

25:02 All of that stuff is done in Mexico.

25:05 It is horrible.

25:08 And finally, we have a president that says

25:11 enough and declare them foreign terrorist organizations.

25:15 No foreign terrorist organization has killed as many

25:19 Americans as the Mexican cartels through assassination,

25:24 kidnappings, and also through all the people that have died of overdoses.

25:30 They didn't declare them terrorist organization too soon.

25:33 Let me tell you that.

25:34 They should have been declared terrorists a long time ago.

25:37 And how long are we going to put up with this?

25:39 How long?

25:41 It's been going on forever.

25:42 How do you feel?

25:43 Look at the Chapitos.

25:44 Now we have the Chapitos, now you have El Mencho,

25:46 now you have El Mencho's stepson.

25:48 It just continues.

25:51 And it's going to continue as long

25:53 as we have corrupt drug trafficking countries.

25:58 Not just the cartels, the countries are drug trafficking countries.

26:01 They hate the United States and they want to inundate us with drugs.

26:11 Yeah.

26:10 Yeah, it's it's a it's a crazy time.

26:14 Do you think that this administration is better?

26:16 Do you think that this administration still has corruption involved?

26:19 Is the CIA still involved in some of the cartel stuff and in supporting drug

26:23 Listen, the CIA is the CIA.

26:25 The CIA doesn't They're they're in the wrong world.

26:29 They don't take orders from nobody.

26:31 They have enough money to find

26:32 I understand themselves three different world wars.

26:36 Okay?

26:37 They get their own money.

26:38 They've been involved in organized crime for years with the mafia,

26:41 Italian mafia, and all of that.

26:43 So, the CIA is going to do what they're going to do.

26:46 And they don't take orders from nobody.

26:49 And like I said, So, so you still think there's corruption on today?

26:53 Yeah.

26:53 Oh, yeah.

26:54 They'll They'll They'll never change.

26:56 You have like with the DEA, the CIA is the same way.

27:01 Everything is compartmentalized.

27:04 People say, "Hector Berrellez is the last guy to do it.

27:07 What do you know about Hector Berrellez?

27:08 What do you know about Operation Leyenda?

27:10 Is all of that true?" And honestly, they don't know.

27:14 They say, "Well, I don't believe it.

27:16 Our agency wouldn't do that.

27:17 Our agency doesn't kidnap people."

27:20 They don't know because it's compartmentalized.

27:22 The CIA is the same way.

27:24 You have the case officers that do their thing,

27:27 and then you have what's called illegitimate agents.

27:30 You know what an illegitimate CIA agent is?

27:33 It's one that is not even on payroll.

27:36 Totally secret.

27:37 Lawrence Harrison, my informant of the CIA,

27:40 was an illegitimate agent trained at Langley, Virginia,

27:44 had that that that worked in Germany

27:46 and other posts before he was assigned to Mexico.

27:49 He was the one that blew the whistle and told me,

27:51 "Hector, he says, you don't know what you're you're into here.

27:53 They're going to kill you, brother." I said,

27:55 "What are you talking about?" He says,

27:57 "Our government is involved in all of this." He says,

28:00 "They're never going to let you expose this." And he told me.

28:05 He says, "They might even kill you." Do you worry about that today?

28:12 I worry about it.

28:14 But you know what?

28:14 If they kill me, they kill me.

28:16 I mean, I mean, we all got to go, right?

28:20 But I'm not I'm not afraid to die.

28:21 That's my thing is I'm ready to go tomorrow.

28:24 I mean, you know, hey, I've I've lived a great life and uh I

28:28 wrote my book and I have my my documentary out.

28:32 You You You saw the documentary, you see it.

28:34 Look at the Look at the Look at the witnesses that were there.

28:38 Explain how a operative and a CIA operative beat up on a CIA agent,

28:44 Kiki Camarena, how he tortured him.

28:48 I what what what what world do we live in?

28:52 Yeah.

28:54 So, you seen the You mentioned El Mencho,

28:57 and you seen the reports about him being captured and killed recently.

29:00 Do you believe that, or is there more to the story?

29:02 Well, I believe Mencho was was was basically killed because of the pressure

29:07 that Marco Rubio and and President Trump

29:10 were putting on on Carlos Salinas de Gortari.

29:12 And I I don't believe that his wounds were mortal.

29:17 I believe he was executed on the on his trip

29:19 back to uh to Guadalajara because um Mencho knew too much,

29:24 and he could expose it all.

29:26 As Ismael Zambada and Rafael Caro Quintero,

29:28 they're over here cooperating with a with a with a US government.

29:32 And of course, that's how they were able to build

29:34 a case on on uh the the guy from uh Venezuela.

29:40 So, I mean, they're all cooperating.

29:42 And here's the thing, Vince, you you're you're former federal agent yourself.

29:46 When are we going to stop cutting deals?

29:48 Is anybody ever going to go to jail?

29:50 I mean, Rafael Caro Quintero should be be should receive you know,

29:55 the death penalty for for for being involved in Kiki's murder.

30:01 They're charging him with CCE and uh and uh

30:03 and uh RICO charges and uh like I said,

30:07 everybody everybody makes a deal over here.

30:10 Everybody makes a deal.

30:12 Yeah, there's been a lot about Kiki Camarena's death,

30:16 and a and a lot of stuff come out.

30:17 We've interviewed several people involved in in in the investigation,

30:21 or that were friends with him,

30:22 and it's always just it's always hard to hear that the CIA would be involved,

30:26 and I've heard it before, not just from you.

30:29 And maybe it was you who first mentioned it,

30:30 and other people kind of taking on with it.

30:33 To hear our government's involved in our own law enforcement being

30:35 killed and kidnapped is is just a scary thought, and you know,

30:39 I've I've asked CIA agents about some of the corruption

30:43 and and the question that the stuff that's in question with CIA.

30:47 And I had one CIA agent admit that the CIA has a mission.

30:50 Their mission is, you know, whether you believe it or not, right?

30:54 It's to it's for the betterment of the country, whatever that may be.

30:57 And even if it's even if their actions

30:59 don't necessarily follow the law law of the land,

31:02 they accomplish their mission in the belief that they're supporting,

31:06 you know, national security.

31:08 And that's hard that's hard to think there's got to be some kind of gray

31:10 line or there's got to be a line that we don't cross as a government,

31:14 especially with our own people.

31:15 And so, hearing this story even more is just makes

31:18 it a little uncomfortable knowing that at any point any

31:20 of our Americans uh our our agents are vulnerable to if

31:25 the CIA has a specific mission in hand that, you know,

31:28 that we might say get in front of.

31:30 And listen, I was I was brought in and I

31:33 was basically talked to by a high-ranking CIA uh person.

31:38 And he told me, "Listen, Victor." He says, "Drugs is not our priority.

31:42 The national security of our country is our priority.

31:46 And we do what we have to do for the national security of our country.

31:52 And if we have to go to uh to to bed with the devil,

31:54 we go to bed with the devil.

31:56 So, we are not, he said, a law enforcement agency.

32:00 We're an intelligence agency.

32:03 And basically, we do And right out straight out, he told me,

32:06 "We are not uh governed by you uh US constitutional law.

32:12 We do not work under the US Constitution.

32:16 That's why we only work foreign." Which is a lie.

32:20 They're they they get involved here in domestic stuff.

32:23 Look at how they were involved in trying to basically do away with Donald Trump.

32:29 So, they do get involved in domestic situations.

32:31 They'll tell you that they don't.

32:33 Oh, we're we're just foreign.

32:34 That's why we don't work under uh US

32:36 constitutional law because we don't work in the US.

32:39 Our assignments are all foreign.

32:40 Bull.

32:41 They do have a lot of work that they do here in the in the in the United States.

32:46 As a matter of fact, I've been warned and told that I have pissed off

32:49 a lot of people and they're they've told me more than once,

32:53 "Be careful, they're going to kill you." Yeah.

33:01 Do you think that the US is going to go boots on ground in Mexico at any point?

33:08 Uh I honestly don't think so.

33:10 Uh I don't think we need it.

33:11 I mean, we're so superiorly advanced in our weaponry and our drones and stuff.

33:17 I don't think it's necessary, seriously.

33:20 Uh I think if we keep putting pressure on on on on Claudia Sheinbaum,

33:24 uh I think she she'll get the Marines to do

33:26 what what they did in in in operation like I mentioned.

33:29 We'll have We'll use their boots.

33:31 They have to cooperate with us.

33:33 We could We could really really put Yeah.

33:36 stiff uh sanctions and tariffs on Mexico.

33:38 They have to cooperate with us.

33:40 Even though they say they don't.

33:42 The Chinese ain't going to do nothing for the Mexicans.

33:44 Look, what are the What are they doing for the uh for the Iranians?

33:46 Not really, nothing.

33:48 And the Iranians were supplying 80% of the uh oil

33:51 to the to the to the Chinese and the Russians.

33:55 So, no, I don't think that uh I don't think that nothing's going to happen.

34:01 Well, we've seen recently a lot of these major

34:03 cartel figures get arrested cooperating with the United States authorities.

34:08 Do you think that we're witnessing a shift, a change that might be, you know,

34:12 beneficial to the drug war or is it just kind of smoke and mirrors?

34:16 It's smoke and mirrors.

34:17 Uh Claudia Sheinbaum, I believe is compromised.

34:19 Uh but you know, she she she is being forced,

34:24 is being basically uh made to turn some

34:27 over some of these cartels and and and cooperate.

34:33 Yeah.

34:34 Yeah, it's it's kind of that's what it feels like

34:35 is she's cooperating but only only as a show of force.

34:39 Someone said like for for for all of us

34:41 to see that she's trying but like you said,

34:44 I haven't seen too many um sentencing

34:48 happening for any of those major characters.

34:52 That's right.

34:53 Uh it's a crazy crazy world we're living in right now.

34:56 Do you think the cartel's winning right now?

34:58 Are they Are they winning this this drug war battle that's going on?

35:01 winning.

35:01 Uh they've kind of been set back since they've been

35:04 declared foreign terrorist organizations but but they're still in business.

35:07 I mean, you know, but I don't think they're winning.

35:12 Yeah.

35:14 Oh man.

35:15 So everything you've seen with Kiki Camarena and today's fentanyl crisis,

35:18 what do you think the next phase of the drug war is?

35:21 Well, the you know, they're going to continue to uh to supply fentanyl.

35:25 Nothing's going to stop.

35:27 Um you know, I really don't see anything stopping.

35:29 I mean, we they might get rid of uh Amel San.

35:32 They might kill him but somebody else will always replace them, you know.

35:35 They're like grass.

35:36 They keep you you mow them and they keep coming up.

35:38 You have to keep mowing them, you know.

35:43 Yeah, you proud of what the DEA is still doing in our government?

35:46 Are you proud of the work that they're putting in today?

35:48 proud of the DEA agents.

35:50 I'm not proud of the administrators on top.

35:52 Most of them are, you know, compromised but it's up there that's like the FBI.

35:55 The agents are great agents.

35:57 It's the top that's Well, not only have I met that guy Spellman which is

36:02 which he's not rotten but in in the former uh administration,

36:06 I mean, the agents were all good great agents.

36:09 It's the top that's uh you know,

36:11 is uh we call them the lambiones in Spanish uh the people

36:16 that will do anything to get promoted and and and and and become corrupted.

36:22 Yeah.

36:23 Well, do me a favor.

36:23 Can you tell me where can Can buy your book and what's the title of your book?

36:27 It's the Last Narc.

36:28 You can get it on Amazon.

36:32 And as well as your documentary, where can we find that?

36:34 It's also a documentary called The Last Narc.

36:35 Also we sell on Amazon also.

36:38 But it's probably video.

36:39 Is there anything else you want to say to the audience?

36:41 Anything that I didn't ask that you've been wanting

36:43 to get off your chest and tell the world?

36:45 No, nothing to get off my chest other than to be aware that and be

36:48 advised and don't be fooled that Caro

36:51 Quintero is not being tried for Kiki's murder.

36:54 They're hiding that.

36:55 Thank you for listening to Borderland Narcosis,

36:57 an Ironclad original presented by First Form.

37:00 Get your First Form supplements at firstform.com/borderland.

37:04 Take care.