The Hidden Enemy That’s Making You SICK and FAT

0:00 You've brought up saturated fat a couple times.

0:02 That is still a big fear for a lot of people who are stepping into a lower carb,

0:06 keto, carnivore diet.

0:09 Let's bust that myth right up front.

0:11 Yeah, I love, you know, when I was a young dietitian,

0:14 as I'm sure many people on your podcast have talked about,

0:16 you know, I was just told like it was very black and white.

0:20 You know, unsaturated fat, good for you.

0:22 Saturated fat clogs your arteries.

0:25 you know, you had all these very dramatic

0:27 images of like butter and beef and, you know, this causes this secluded artery.

0:32 And, you know, I even remember watching a video in high school of, you know,

0:35 the uh scientists like cutting into plaque and being like, "Look,

0:39 there's LDL in there." And it was like saturated fats cause LDL to increase.

0:44 And so, you have all this this fear around LDL and LDL increasing.

0:49 And you know, of course, that's caused um you know,

0:52 an explosion of people to be prescribed statin

0:55 drugs in with the goal of like reducing LDL.

0:58 So, it's very unfortunate because you know, as I as I wrote about in my book

1:03 and I know many other people have talked about LDL,

1:05 cholesterol in general is so important like

1:09 it's it's the foundation of your cell membranes.

1:12 It's important in hormone production.

1:14 Um we have very good data and not just like oh a 100

1:19 people study like metaanalysis of hundreds

1:21 of thousands of people that the higher

1:24 someone's LDL was especially as they age the less risk of infection they

1:29 have LDL is important in your immune system the less risk of cognitive decline.

1:34 So here we are lowering LDL and then potentially giving people risk

1:38 of not only getting an infection

1:39 but having dementia and Alzheimer's and other issues.

1:42 So you know just like so many other things in nutrition we you

1:47 can't look at things in a vac context is very important and I think

1:51 most people kind of know that on a surface level but you really

1:55 I always encourage people to understand you

1:57 know ask your doctor ask your dietitian

1:59 like why do I need to do this tell me explain it to me

2:03 and I it's it's pretty unfortunate and a lot of dietitians can't oh

2:06 LDL is bad you need less that's not an explanation you know talk

2:10 to me about the mechanism So let's let's break it down like you said.

2:14 Okay.

2:17 LDL very important in the body but we see it gets stuck in arteries.

2:22 Why does it get stuck?

2:22 It has all these important functions.

2:24 So is it taking you know um is it

2:27 doing its job ringing you know has so many infections

2:30 in the body and then all of a sudden just

2:32 be like hey I'm I'm mad I'm clogging your arteries.

2:35 No it's not like a jackalin hide thing.

2:37 You have to have some type

2:38 of inflammation and oxidation within the arterial walls.

2:42 So what causes that?

2:44 You know, we know the number one cause

2:46 of that is high blood sugar over time, right?

2:48 Hypoglycemia.

2:50 That's why type 2 diabetics have an extremely high risk of heart disease.

2:54 You know, it really goes hand in hand.

2:55 Um you know, and unfortunately the higher A1C goes,

2:58 it tends to be your your risk goes up.

3:00 I mean some people you know A1C is of 10 you know 12

3:04 14 yours can be like sixfold of having a heart attack and it's

3:07 like it's not because your LDL it's because your blood sugar is so

3:12 high you know you've got this inflammation

3:14 oxidation the the solution isn't to necessarily

3:16 lower your LDL the solution is to get rid of that inflammation

3:20 and oxidation and of course there are other things that cause um you know

3:25 inflammation there's certainly autoimmune disorders there's

3:27 other factors but unfortunately My overwhelming experience

3:31 being in this field now for 16 years is pre-diabetes and diabetes is rampant.

3:36 You know when I was a a kiddo like in high school

3:39 and stuff we used to call it was uh childhood onset and adult onset.

3:44 Now you you know now it's type one and type two because the youngest

3:49 person I I saw in the clinic that had type two diabetes was eight.

3:53 You know now I'm seeing um working with ONA health.

3:56 have seen people, you know,

3:57 in their teens and 20s with pre diabetes and full-blown diabetes.

4:02 Well, I think this is going to be a general theme,

4:04 this metabolic dysfunction throughout the conversation.

4:07 You've already connected it to heart disease,

4:10 but let's take a step back and talk about somebody eating

4:15 to the old food pyramid and when they up their carbs,

4:20 what that does with the blood glucose and over time if they do that chronically,

4:24 the effects on insulin and the damage that does throughout the body.

4:28 Yeah.

4:28 Yeah.

4:28 And this is also where I think context is important

4:30 because the more you know studies and research and we have

4:35 some very good just even an anecdotal um people populations

4:40 that just eat a very high carbohydrate diet that are really healthy.

4:44 You know I was very fortunate when I was um 20 years old.

4:47 I went to Kenya for six weeks and had to run with the distance runners.

4:51 It was it was magical.

4:53 um you know was in a very rural area and I think I

4:57 mean we probably ate I don't know 20 grams of protein a day.

5:01 was very, you know, rice, but everything was grown.

5:04 You know, there was the no processed carbohydrates at all, right?

5:09 And we were also, you know, the group I was with, we were running,

5:13 that was the first time in my life I'd run, you know, 100 miles a week.

5:16 Um, so you're running an incredible distance,

5:19 but the absence of any seed oils, any um, you know, hydrogenated oils,

5:24 any processed foods, people getting lots of sunlight,

5:26 people with good community,

5:28 I I saw minimal metabolic dysfunction during my time there.

5:33 Uh, you know, but you come back to America,

5:37 people aren't eating whole food carbohydrates.

5:40 It's pretty rare that people I meet someone who's very sick.

5:43 You know, type two diabetes, um,

5:44 obesity, heart disease, fatty liver, PCOS, cancer,

5:48 all all these things are under

5:50 the u umbrella of metabolic dysfunction that says,

5:53 oh, I'm eating sweet potatoes and um, you know, brown rice and chicken.

5:58 It's like people are eating these donuts and breads and cookies

6:02 and crackers and all these things that have just been so ultrarocessed,

6:05 you know, over time that it just caused rampid dysfunction.

6:09 And so I think there has to be some type of conversation around that.

6:13 You know, what could you be a metabolically healthy person eating

6:16 a much higher carbohydrate diet if it was all um whole food carbohydrates?

6:21 You kept your fat really low, you ate a lot of clean protein, probably.

6:25 But once you are sick, which unfortunately is a lot of the population, you know,

6:30 the type two diabetics that I see, like they can't,

6:32 they're so sick they can't even tolerate like an apple.

6:34 Their blood sugar is going to go too high.

6:36 Does that mean they can never eat an apple again?

6:38 No.

6:38 That just means that we really have to get their carbohydrates down.

6:41 Like we have to get your the end is completely full.

6:44 Their muscles, their liver, everything is saturated with glucose.

6:47 And so, um, I kind of forgot what your actual

6:51 question was as I gone off on a tangent here.

6:53 Well, let's get into mechanism as that's happening.

6:56 Somebody who is having too much sugar,

6:58 too many carbs, blood glucose is high chronically.

7:03 Yes.

7:02 The damage that the elevated blood glucose does

7:05 throughout the body and then the elevated insulin.

7:09 Yeah.

7:09 And it's gnarly.

7:10 Like I mean I've seen I working in acute care

7:17 really started to break me cuz you saw you saw many

7:20 things that were preventable and you saw people being given

7:24 information that was going to cause them to continue to suffer.

7:27 And let me give you a few examples.

7:29 You know I think a lot of people kind of assume like

7:32 oh you know people in the hospital they're 70 they're 80 they're 90.

7:36 Not necessarily.

7:37 I'm seeing people I saw a gentleman

7:39 with a severe cardiovascular failure who was 28.

7:42 I saw a person that needed a um kidney

7:45 transplant at 35 due to severe type two diabetes.

7:49 um you know people I literally had a gentleman who was you know

7:52 51 who was in the ICU and he was massively septic and as I'm

7:56 reading through his chart he had stepped on a piece of glass a week

8:00 ago and he had his peripheral neuropathy was so bad he couldn't feel

8:04 it which is another consequence of type two diabetes right you lose feeling

8:08 in your legs so this shard of glass had like you know implanted

8:12 and caused a massive infection and he didn't even know it like that's how

8:15 sick some of these people are and so type two diabetes And this is,

8:20 you know, this isn't I when I talk to my younger

8:22 people and I consider anyone younger than me young, right?

8:24 30s, 20s, I'm not saying this to scare you,

8:28 but I'm saying this so you know, like this will ruin your life,

8:32 you know, and if especially if you have pre-diabetes,

8:35 you have an opportunity to completely reverse this.

8:38 But if you keep this going, it doesn't end well.

8:42 You know, you're going to have your teeth are going to rot.

8:45 You're going to have kidney failure.

8:46 you die of a heart attack.

8:48 You're not going to be able to fill your limbs.

8:49 You're going to be weak because your body

8:51 can't actually use the fuel you're eating.

8:53 It is a horrible way to live, but it's also incredibly reversible.

8:57 I had a gentleman, Jesse, he his A1C was 10.

9:02 So, for reference, if people are new to your show,

9:04 you know, we want you to be under 5.7.

9:07 5.7 to six to 6.5 is pre-diabetes.

9:10 Damage is being done.

9:12 This is like your body like the sirens are going off.

9:14 above 6.5, you have full-blown diabetes.

9:18 And so this gentleman was 10, not good.

9:20 And he literally said though, like, tell me what to do.

9:22 I will do it as strict as possible.

9:24 Nigerian gentleman, a really nice guy.

9:26 He had his family back in Nigeria.

9:27 Said, I I I am their supporter.

9:29 I have to be well.

9:30 And so we put him on a very strict low carb diet.

9:33 And you know, a lot of times people struggle.

9:37 They argue with you.

9:37 They don't want to give up foods.

9:38 He was I've never seen somebody so on it.

9:43 and he got his labs tested 71 days, not even 3 months later, his A1C was 5.4.

9:49 So, we went from 10 and he had seen other doctors and dietitians.

9:54 They wanted to put him on meds and they

9:55 wanted to do this nonsense consistent carb diet.

9:58 And in 71 days, he no longer has diabetes.

10:01 So, it's not pre-diabetes.

10:04 He also lost like 25 pounds, too.

10:06 A big part of the problem as somebody's

10:08 heading into these waters we've been discussing metabolic dysfunction,

10:12 pre-diabetes, insulin resistance, is the fact that so much of this is taking

10:18 place silently in the body over a number of years.

10:23 And often times it's not till you're really far down the line

10:26 and you have something like diabetes that you find out that there's a problem.

10:31 Can you explain what's happening in that 10 to 15 years in the body

10:36 physiology-wise as things are breaking before they

10:41 get to that full-blown type 2 diabetes?

10:43 Yeah.

10:43 You know what's really hard is I think a lot of people unfortunately

10:48 function at such a poor baseline

10:50 that they don't really even realize they're sick.

10:53 you know a lot of um you know I also have

10:55 had the privilege to work with um you know women young women

10:58 with like eating disorders anorexia and osteoporosis you know you most

11:04 of the time you don't know you're losing bone density until it's fracture

11:07 hit right and so same thing is very similar with um

11:10 pre-diabetes or type two diabetes you're just going along and you're just

11:14 like I don't know I'm just I'm a busy person and I

11:17 just you don't really know but you know there are obviously some

11:21 warning signs you So um you know gaining gaining fat especially

11:25 gaining like belly fat um people often will say they feel incredibly

11:28 fatigued the idea of exercise seems overwhelming um you know some gentlemen

11:34 deal with erectile dysfunction women have PCOS but as far as like

11:38 the damage that's starting you know your body your body does not

11:43 there's so many mechanisms to keep your blood sugar at a stable

11:46 level like your body does not want to have elevated blood

11:49 glucose because that changes the pH of your blood which once Again,

11:52 it's very dangerous.

11:54 And so, you're just you're causing you're

11:57 causing all kinds of inflammation in various areas,

12:00 whether it can be, you know, the arterials of your eyes,

12:03 their kidneys, it can be their heart.

12:05 And it just sometimes it depends genetically.

12:08 You know, people that might have more

12:10 of a genetic predisposition to store fat as visceral fat.

12:13 You might be potentially potentially setting yourself up

12:17 for a heart attack even if you're relatively young.

12:19 You know, I've unfortunately had people that had arteries

12:22 that were like 50% blocked and they're in their 30s.

12:24 Oh my god.

12:26 You know, so there's so many things that could

12:28 potentially be happening that you might not even know.

12:32 And of course, you know,

12:33 our terrible original food guidelines and then you have

12:36 the food industry that just makes all these convenient, easy processed foods.

12:41 Then we have a society that just, you know,

12:43 supports it's it's not even it's the most unusual

12:48 phenomenon that as a society we really support food

12:50 addiction and we support being fat and we support

12:53 hey if you can't work because you're too fat,

12:55 we'll just put you on disability and we'll age you.

12:57 And I'm not trying to be um you know to um rude or whatever, but I've seen it.

13:03 You know, I worked in some long-term care places.

13:06 I worked in um lots of hospitals.

13:08 And that should not be the solution.

13:11 The solution should be, you know,

13:12 you you're obese, your weight, you got these issues.

13:14 We need to help you.

13:16 We need to set you up to get you well, you know.

13:19 So, it's really really unfortunate just how the how the system is set up.

13:23 Still, you quickly mentioned their visceral fat.

13:26 And this is the fat that's deep within the abdomen,

13:30 the dangerous fat that somebody can be accumulating and not

13:34 even really notice the difference looking in the mirror.

13:38 So, another invisible thing happening under the hood

13:43 that can be causing a lot of problems.

13:45 Yeah.

13:45 And wouldn't it be wild?

13:46 I was talking to a friend about this because

13:48 um you really you can't really know how

13:52 much visceral fat and thank you for pointing

13:53 that out because we have two types of fat, right?

13:55 We have subcutaneous like the fat kind of like around you can see around

13:58 like your arms or whatever and then the visceral fat which is the fat around

14:01 our organs and that's the much more dangerous and um if getting a DEXA

14:07 scan which of course shows your bone

14:08 density and muscle muscle mass but also shows

14:11 fat and visceral fat like what if once a year everybody had to get

14:15 lab tests and you know ideally you'd get lab tests maybe twice a year

14:19 but yeah sometimes we see people that haven't had lab tests in 10 to 15

14:22 years and so being able to keep an eye on your numbers, track your numbers.

14:28 Um, that would be that would be ideal

14:32 if somebody wants to get objective with this and get lab

14:35 testing done to see their baseline and then track over time.

14:39 You mentioned the HBA1C,

14:42 would you look at that as part of a bigger panel to assess?

14:47 100%.

14:48 I love that um a lot of healthcare providers especially

14:51 in this space has started recommending fasting insulin um because you know

14:56 I h I have a few people that I've worked

14:58 with that their A1C was normal you know and I'm talking like

15:03 I have a gentleman you know 52 he's like a little

15:07 taller than me I want to say 5'9 and he's 400

15:09 lb and so you would think like this guy's got to be

15:13 diabetic A1C is 5.3 let's get your fasting insulin tested Oh,

15:17 it's 65 for reference.

15:20 I think I think um an intro like sizz under like 10 or 12.

15:24 I mean theoretically I think it's like goes up to 20 is kind of the max range,

15:29 but you know most healthy humans we want it I would say

15:32 under 12 under 10 cuz when you have your pancreas pumping this guy

15:35 his pancreas is pumping out so much insulin that it's actually keeping it

15:40 looks like his blood sugar is normal but what it what is insulin too?

15:43 Insulin is a fat storage hormone.

15:45 It's taking all that all that carbohydrates he's eating and it's

15:48 storing them as fat because his cells are completely saturated.

15:51 He can't store it as um you know carbohydrate anymore.

15:55 And so fasting insulin is a very important piece of the puzzle, you know.

15:59 And so this this guy who's been told by doctors like no, you're not diabetic.

16:02 No, you're fine.

16:04 No, you're not fine.

16:05 Your fasting insulin is through the roof.

16:07 And if you you have an amazing ability to store fat.

16:10 If we were in a famine, you'd be great.

16:11 We're not in a famine.

16:12 and you're going to kill yourself if we don't make some changes here.

16:15 But the good news is despite, you know,

16:17 your fasting insulin, despite your blood glucose,

16:19 despite your usually people like that have very high triglycerides as well,

16:23 um, and we can reverse that.

16:24 We just have to change how you're eating.

16:26 To me, as we're talking, there's three different areas that are jumping out

16:30 at me that are a big part of this problem.

16:32 One being the social acceptance of being fat, which you mentioned.

16:37 two, the dietary guidelines, at least up until now,

16:40 have been telling people to eat carbs,

16:43 a lot of carbs, to stay healthy, which is backwards.

16:46 And then three, the fact that a lot of this is

16:49 going on hidden until somebody gets to that type two diabetes.

16:53 So to me, it's this threeprong disaster that has led us to where we are.

16:59 May I add a prong?

17:00 May I add an additional prong?

17:03 about um what people think, believe,

17:06 and perceive because how you think about situations, your mindset.

17:10 I tell you what, I can I've seen people

17:13 with like my my gentleman that I just said

17:16 with that A1C had less resources than a lot of people

17:18 I worked with and had more success because he said,

17:21 "You tell me what to do and I'll be damned if I don't do it." Like,

17:24 I will do everything.

17:25 And you know, I we meet with these people every week and hey,

17:28 have you had any struggles?

17:29 Have you blown up?

17:30 What do you mean have I had any struggles?

17:31 I did exactly what you I mean had such a you know like iron will

17:35 you know had that self-belief that I can do this I will do this I

17:39 am capable of do this I mean so many people are so tired and they

17:43 they they feel like societ their jobs

17:45 have beat them down maybe their relationships whatever

17:47 that they just I can't do this I've tried all these diets h just give

17:50 me the meds whatever you have to have

17:52 that strong self-belief because life is hard

17:56 anybody's listening to this we you know

17:57 things with their family things with finances things

18:00 you have to believe that I will figure this out and how where I got to.

18:04 It's not my parents' problem.

18:06 It's not my spouse's problem.

18:07 It's not the government's problem.

18:08 It is my problem.

18:09 Where you put the blame, you put your power.

18:11 I can fix this and I will fix this.

18:13 And just every day, every meal,

18:15 that's very passionate about how you think because

18:19 that's the only way you're going to overcome.

18:20 It's just too easy to fail.

18:22 You know, society literally sets you up

18:24 like you can't go anywhere without crappy food.

18:27 So, okay.

18:28 So far, we've talked about lab tests.

18:30 We mentioned that people can notice weight gain

18:33 as they're heading down this path, but not always.

18:36 What other symptoms can somebody look at without going to the doctor other than

18:43 the weight gain piece if they have it to see if they're headed down this path?

18:47 I often find that people are unusually fatigued, you know, at various places.

18:53 If you're you start your day, I'm just going to do a hypothetical time at 6:00.

18:56 And if you're exhausted at 10:00 and then again at 2:00

19:00 and you're just like slamming coffee and carbs to get through the day,

19:04 that is not a good sign.

19:06 If you notice when you have carbohydrates, let's say you're just like, "Oh god,

19:09 I just I don't want to go to work and you have a granola bar or milk,

19:13 something very high in carbs and you feel really good,

19:15 like you kind of feel." That's also not a good sign.

19:18 You're you're riding that blood sugar roller coaster up and down.

19:21 I we want to be stable.

19:22 You should feel good and level most of the time.

19:25 Um, if you are unable to do cardio for 10 minutes,

19:30 if the idea of going for an uptempo 10-minute walk is like,

19:34 "No, I can't do that." Like,

19:36 we should all be able to, you know, do 15 to 20 minutes.

19:41 I'm not saying you need to go run an ultramarathon.

19:44 Who does that?

19:44 That's insane.

19:46 Hashtag me.

19:47 But you do need to be able to do something to get your heart rate up.

19:50 Like if you're to the point where getting

19:52 your heart rate up for one or two minutes,

19:53 you're just like that's not a good sign, you know?

19:57 So, you added another prong, the ownership piece to this.

20:00 I'm going to add one more prong.

20:02 The fact that people need to know that they can

20:05 get better with a lot of these chronic health conditions.

20:08 You go to the doctor, you go to the dietitian,

20:11 and conventionally we're told that the best we can

20:13 do is medicate and prevent going further down the line.

20:18 Throughout our conversation,

20:19 I hope to get into the nuance here of the fact that depending where you are,

20:24 there's a lot of hope here and you can reverse some of this stuff.

20:27 That is like my message to people like

20:30 the human body and brain because there's a lot

20:32 of people that are listening to this or that themselves

20:35 or their families or their children are severe anxiety,

20:38 severe depression, suicidal ideation.

20:40 The human body and the human brain have a tremendous capacity to heal,

20:45 greater than anybody has ever allowed you to believe.

20:47 your doctor, your, you know,

20:49 even like potentially you might read it in the Bible and you're like,

20:51 "That's impossible." No, it's not.

20:54 But you have to fuel it correctly, you know,

20:57 and like you said, you go to a doctor.

20:59 Gosh, and this is the problem.

21:02 And you know, I say this very respectfully because I know doctors.

21:04 I I know many doctors.

21:05 My two oldest sisters are doctors, right?

21:08 So, but you have five to seven, maybe 10 minutes with the person.

21:14 They're going as fast as they can.

21:15 They're trying to type.

21:16 They're giving you meds.

21:17 They're telling you good luck.

21:18 You might see them at 6 months.

21:19 Like, what are you supposed to do with that?

21:21 You know, that's not actually helping you move forward.

21:24 You need to understand how to get better.

21:26 And and just like you said, I think that's very important.

21:28 You need to truly believe that you can

21:32 get better and take ownership of that because often,

21:35 you know, I was told as a young

21:36 human that um people don't really recover from anorexia.

21:39 Like, you're going to have this the rest of your life.

21:41 It's going to rule your life.

21:42 you're going to have to become kind of this high functioning

21:44 person that's constantly dealing with racing thoughts around food and, you know,

21:48 obsessing about that and worrying about that.

21:50 And when we tell people this, you know, they believe it.

21:53 Hey, you have type two diabetes.

21:54 You're just going to have to take insulin your whole life, you know,

21:57 and you're probably going to get sicker, but we're going to manage it.

21:59 We're going to do our best we can so you don't get too much worse.

22:02 What total nonsense.

22:03 But people have to realize, and I know this isn't going to be

22:06 like news to people who listen to your podcast, that this is a business.

22:10 And if you if you get better, I don't make money off of you.

22:14 I can't heal you because then I lose you as a customer.

22:17 I also can't kill you because then I lose you as a customer.

22:19 I have to keep you perpetually sick.

22:20 And that's the business model of our healthcare system kind of blows.

22:26 So, we have to rise above that and say like, no, we believe we can get better.

22:31 We have more than, you know, tons of clinical evidence we can get better.

22:35 And so we're going to take those steps every day and get better.

22:41 Another piece we can add on is having a why.

22:43 And you talk about this in your book.

22:45 We need to know we can get better.

22:47 And then we need to really get down in the nitty-gritty

22:51 and find out what's at the root of our why to get better,

22:54 which is going to give us so much momentum on this journey.

22:59 Yeah.

22:59 And you know, I've talked to interestingly talking to more people about this.

23:03 If you're struggling with a why, like I've had people say like,

23:06 "I just don't have a reason." And you know,

23:08 once again, working with a lot of mental health um patients,

23:12 sometimes our why can be very simple.

23:14 Like, okay, let's table that.

23:16 Give me one thing that you think you might want in the future.

23:20 Like, it doesn't have to be because I do think it's good to have a profound why.

23:23 Like, hey, I love myself.

23:24 I want to do this.

23:24 But if you're struggling finding a why, okay,

23:26 maybe someday I'd like to adopt a kitten.

23:28 That'd be cool.

23:29 All right.

23:29 like it we don't have to find this profound why because we do have

23:32 to act like action you know motivation

23:34 always comes before um after action people get

23:37 that backwards you know oh I'm going to go to the gym when I

23:39 feel motivated okay guess what I'm never going to the gym if I ran when

23:43 I was motivated I'd run like I don't know one day a month it's

23:47 hard so you have to decide like I'm going to do this action action action

23:52 always always matters but yes if you're if you don't if you can't find

23:55 this profound dramatic why start with you know

23:58 what it'd be really cool to like myself.

24:00 It'd be really cool to have a partner.

24:02 It'd be really find anything that gets you started.

24:05 Since you made it to the end of this clip,

24:07 I know you're going to love the full episode.

24:09 Click here to watch.

24:10 I'll see you over there.

24:11 We are not going to medicate or moderate out of this.

24:14 They have great at it.

24:15 Tons of clinical published trials on people

24:18 reversing type 2 diabetes with lower carbohydrate diets.

24:21 But if you're very sick, you need to be focusing on what does your body need.