The Tiny Daily Habits That Rewire Your Brain - Jake Humphrey & Damian Hughes

0:00 Be a spark of light.

0:00 If you're the spark of light, you get more chances to act.

0:03 If you're the spark of light and things go wrong, people are rooting for you.

0:06 We underestimate the importance of what we can do as individuals,

0:10 particularly in a world where there's 24-hour revolving news,

0:12 where the world seems so big and so muddled,

0:15 we just think, "Well, how can I impact the world?

0:17 I'm just an individual.

0:18 There's nothing I can do." Well,

0:19 the first thing to remember is if you go back to history,

0:21 it's either individuals or small groups

0:23 of individuals that have always changed the world.

0:25 You start out being the light in the room.

0:27 You walk into a room and you act like a thermostat, not a thermometer.

0:31 A thermometer just tells you the temperature.

0:32 A thermostat goes in and thinks, "Nah, man,

0:34 I'm changing the temperature." Welcome to Open Book.

0:37 I am your host, Anthony Scaramucci.

0:39 Joining me today is Jake Humphrey and Damian Hughes.

0:43 Uh they are Sunday Times best-selling authors

0:46 and hosts of the High Performance Podcast.

0:51 But, they got a best-selling book.

0:53 It's called Micro Habits, Tiny Changes that supercharge high performance.

1:00 So, guys, uh loving you coming in.

1:03 I love the podcast, by the way.

1:04 We should talk a little bit about that as well.

1:06 You've got over 400 conversations on high performance.

1:11 Uh but, you've spent a year decoding what makes extraordinary people tick.

1:16 Um I actually um I think one of you handed me the book.

1:19 I I don't I can't remember how I actually got the book,

1:21 but I remember reading it on the way home from London.

1:24 So, I think either you or your publisher gave you the book.

1:28 Uh and I thought the book was awesome.

1:29 It was a little bit like Atomic Habits in in some ways,

1:32 but better in other ways because there

1:34 was like real intense stories in the book.

1:38 And so, let's go to some of these Olympic champions,

1:41 world-class coaches, entrepreneurs, military leaders.

1:45 What surprised you guys most about high performers?

1:49 And you can each take the question.

1:50 Well, first of all, thanks for having us on on Sunday.

1:52 It is a real privilege to get to chat with you.

1:54 And um and thanks for reading the book as well.

1:57 That's That's always a privilege.

1:59 Um, we came up with the idea that we've done

2:02 over 400 interviews with these incredible people on the podcast.

2:05 And one of the things is we often talk about

2:08 great abstract ideas like motivation or having a vision or drive.

2:14 And what we wanted to do was sort of drizzle

2:16 down into what are the small things that anybody can understand.

2:20 What leads to motivation?

2:21 What leads to greater drive?

2:23 So, we started exploring like small behaviors that we'd

2:26 seen that that I mean you referenced Atomic Habits.

2:30 We sat down with James Clear who had this great line

2:33 that the heaviest weight in the gym is always the front door.

2:36 So, James had spoke to us about it's often just finding one small

2:39 one small step you can take that has that catalyst effect for others.

2:44 So, we spoke to Charles Duhigg, the Pulitzer Prize-winning author,

2:48 who shared with us that he'd he'd

2:49 spent uh 15 years researching his book Supercommunicators.

2:53 And we said, "Distill 15 years of wisdom down into just a simple habit that any

2:58 of us can take away." And he spoke about every conversation is either a social,

3:02 emotional, or technical conversation.

3:04 So, he sums it up as one of three H's.

3:07 Every conversation is either a request to be heard,

3:10 to be helped, or to be hooked.

3:12 And if you can work out which

3:14 of those three conversations you're having with the other person,

3:17 what we find is that you connect so much at a deeper level.

3:21 The trust, the cooperation, the generosity that you feel with that other

3:25 party becomes so much more significant.

3:27 So, that's an example of a micro habit where anybody can start a conversation,

3:31 work out very quickly is this a hook, a hear, or a help one.

3:35 Yeah, Anthony, I think really Micro Habits is

3:37 a self-help book for people that don't like self-help books.

3:40 And in some ways I almost felt um embarrassed that we were charging people,

3:45 right, for this book because it's so obvious.

3:48 But, I think we live in a world where we've been

3:50 told for years that you have to have a big goal.

3:53 You have to have a big ambition.

3:54 You have to have a dream.

3:55 You have to write it down.

3:56 You have to have the big thing on the horizon,

3:58 the BHAG we call it in UK business, don't we?

4:01 Big Hairy Audacious Goal.

4:02 And I think we over subscribe for that.

4:04 And we under subscribe for the fact that we've interviewed now,

4:07 as you mentioned, 400 people

4:08 on the High Performance Podcast, including yourself.

4:11 And wherever we have these conversations with people,

4:13 it becomes absolutely clear that the reason why they've got to where

4:16 they have in life is the behaviors that they've taken on board.

4:20 So, the best example from the book is

4:21 that Tom Daley originally started off by drawing a picture

4:24 of himself on the 2012 Olympic gold medal winning

4:28 position as one of the British diving hopes for 2012.

4:32 He would have been about 7 or 8 years old

4:33 at the time cuz he was a very young kid.

4:34 And his coach said to him, you know, like, that's fine.

4:37 You can think about that.

4:38 But drawing a picture of it and dreaming

4:40 of doing it is never going to get you there.

4:42 What will though are the small daily actionable things.

4:45 So, every day when you start your day,

4:46 I want you to write down three things that's going

4:48 to get you closer to being a gold medalist at 2012.

4:51 So, it would be turn up for training on time.

4:53 Do some extra stretching.

4:55 Listen to my coach.

4:56 Those three things are going to They're not sexy

4:59 and they're not exciting and you can't market them really,

5:02 but they're going to get you much closer

5:03 to your end goal than that big ambitious poster on the wall that tells you you

5:07 can you can achieve the thing you always want.

5:09 And that's really why we wanted to write this book

5:11 because we wanted it to provide genuine value for people.

5:15 And it's stuff that anyone can do.

5:16 You know, Jake, when we did the podcast, I don't know if you guys remember

5:20 this, but you you talked to me about your show.

5:24 Uh it was almost vectored into sub

5:27 something that was going to be entirely different.

5:29 You know, what was the version of your show that didn't happen?

5:33 And what is the origin story that still shapes the two of you

5:37 in terms of how you interview cuz I think it's very important to the book.

5:41 Yes, so I remember that, Anthony.

5:42 Well, so I originally came up with two ideas

5:45 for High Performance or for the conversations I wanted to have

5:47 and at the time I was working as a sports

5:49 broadcaster here in the UK hosting Champions League football,

5:51 Premier League football, and Formula 1.

5:53 And one of my ideas was called one last thing before I go.

5:57 And it was a conversation with people um who were in end-of-life care,

6:01 but it had to be people who weren't ready for the the light to be turned off.

6:04 People who were still ready to attack the world,

6:06 who had a reason to live, who had an ambition to remain alive.

6:11 Um and I recorded some of those episodes

6:12 and quite frankly they were just too painful to continue.

6:15 I would they were impacting me to a point that I couldn't really cope with them.

6:19 But I also wanted to talk about the things I'd

6:21 learned while doing elite sport presenting for over 30 years.

6:26 And what that was was that when I was hosting the Formula 1,

6:29 I didn't really care who won the Grand Prix.

6:31 When I was hosting football, I didn't really care who won the football match.

6:33 Was it Arsenal?

6:34 Was it Manchester United?

6:36 Was it Manchester City?

6:36 I didn't mind.

6:38 What I loved about that was how did these people get themselves

6:41 to a place in their life where they can find an edge over others?

6:45 And I kind of wanted to talk about it,

6:47 but I knew that it wasn't the kind of thing that a TV channel would commission.

6:50 So a friend recommended a podcast.

6:52 But then I was super nervous cuz my background is on kids TV.

6:56 And I thought people are just going to laugh at this former kids TV

6:59 presenter attempting to have conversations about high-achieving

7:02 individuals managing to find their non-negotiable behaviors.

7:06 So I met Damian.

7:07 Luckily he was talking to um a professional football team and I

7:10 went along to watch the talk that he was giving to the team.

7:13 We met and it started from there.

7:15 And the entire premise of the show at that point in my head was

7:19 let's explain to the world how you've got to work harder than everyone else,

7:22 how you've got to be you know these days Anthony

7:24 and this is a world that you frequented for a long time.

7:27 The alpha male world of work harder than everybody else,

7:30 beat your chest, push yourself to your limits, get up earlier,

7:33 go to bed later, drink your electrolyte drinks, get in the gym,

7:37 push, push, push, push, and one day you'll be happy.

7:39 So anyway, when we started having conversations You left out the Viagra, Jacob.

7:43 You It's the Viagra.

7:44 It's and Viagra essential ingredient to that happiness.

7:47 Yeah.

7:48 What we realized from all these conversations with these high-achieving

7:50 people is a lot of them do all those things, but they're not very happy.

7:54 And it's this lack of happiness then became fascinating for Damian and I.

7:58 So, really, what we've now distilled high performance down to is finding joy

8:02 in what you do because are you a high performer if you're not loving it?

8:05 But also, high performance is very simple.

8:07 It's doing the best you can where you are with what you've got.

8:10 If you can live a life doing those three those three things,

8:14 then you can't go far wrong.

8:15 And I often we overcomplicate what high performance really is.

8:18 The reason I brought this up number one,

8:21 you have to be flexible with your achievement.

8:24 You guys found a niche,

8:25 but you were going in a couple of different directions before you got there.

8:29 I think we have to be honest with ourselves in terms

8:32 of what we're good at and what we're not good at.

8:34 Uh I think you're very good at at understanding that.

8:37 But then the second thing which I, you know, I really took from you guys.

8:42 Uh and again, this is, you know,

8:43 something that James also writes about in Atomic Habits.

8:46 If you just change a few things, right?

8:48 Uh getting up early.

8:49 Talk about uh something in the book where if

8:51 you just shift your morning alarm by 15 minutes, Damian, what happens?

8:58 Tell us about the chemical reaction of that small change.

9:02 Well, what we Well, one of the things that we know

9:04 is the um feeling that we have some degree of control

9:07 over our circumstances is one of the big pillars to sort

9:11 of um happiness and and high performance in any way.

9:14 So, that idea of them being responsive rather than

9:18 reactive just reinforces that sense of autonomy and control.

9:21 So, choosing to set your alarm a bit

9:23 earlier and therefore getting up in a calmer state,

9:25 maybe making time to eat breakfast, spend time with your loved ones,

9:30 maybe leave the house in a calmer manner rather than rushing out is all

9:35 elements that then put you in a place

9:36 where your executive functioning your reasoning

9:39 and your higher levels of thought are

9:41 able to be accessed rather than constantly being

9:43 on the back foot and reacting and and triggering

9:46 those those those fight or flight responses.

9:50 I mean, I'll give you a a good example from the book, Anthony,

9:53 that we interviewed a an amazing comedian in the UK called Sarah Pascoe

9:58 and she spoke about how for years when she started her stand-up career,

10:02 she would be sort of waiting behind the curtains to be announced and she

10:06 would convince herself that people in this audience don't think women are funny,

10:10 they're going to hate me,

10:11 they're going to not think I'm as good as the last person

10:14 that stood on the stage and it occurred to her one day,

10:17 she thought, who is this thought process is actually helping?

10:21 So, she decided to adopt a philosophy that's been around

10:23 since the 1950s from psychotherapist

10:26 Carl Rogers of unconditional positive regard.

10:30 Rather than be paranoid that everybody is out to get you,

10:32 she decided to be pronoid and assume that everybody was out to help her.

10:36 So, she started telling herself a slightly

10:38 different revised story that these people

10:41 have left the house tonight when they could have watched TV,

10:43 so they've come out for live entertainment.

10:44 These people want to laugh.

10:46 These people want to like me.

10:48 And she found that just that small tweak in what she was

10:51 talking to herself allowed her that when she got out on the stage,

10:54 she was far more relaxed, she was far more confident and she was able to create

10:58 that connection far faster than what she'd been doing previously.

11:01 And that to me is a encapsulation of a micro habit in action.

11:06 It doesn't cost you a penny.

11:08 It's small enough to understand, but it's speedy enough that you can implement

11:11 it right away and see the results quickly.

11:14 Thank you for tuning in to Open Book.

11:15 If you haven't already, please hit the subscribe button below so that you're

11:20 the first to know when our new episodes drop each week.

11:22 We got a lot more coming.

11:24 And now, back to the show.

11:25 There's so much packed in that.

11:28 But, the battle, I mean, again,

11:30 a great theme from your book is the battle is inside your own mind, right?

11:34 Ultimately, right?

11:36 By the way, you know, I I've tried stand-up.

11:38 I'm I'm I'm two for three.

11:40 I My first stand-up, I was like, "Oh, this is awesome.

11:43 I got to do it again." And and then I flopped the second

11:46 time and I literally had sweat rings under my arms and I was like,

11:49 "This is terrible." And I had to go do it a third time,

11:52 but it it is your belief in yourself that gets you going, you know.

11:56 Why did you decide to attack that?

11:58 I think it's one of the most difficult things in the world.

12:01 Yeah.

12:01 Uh if you're if you're in public speaking or you're

12:04 doing a podcast like the two of you guys,

12:06 I mean, you got to go I mean, by the way, you guys are funny.

12:10 I mean, I've listened to I haven't listened

12:11 to all 400 of your your your interviews, but I You guys are funny.

12:15 You're cheeky, you're witty.

12:17 Okay, but you know, you're you have a serious

12:19 podcast which has which has a wit to it.

12:22 But in a stand-up situation,

12:23 you're there and everyone there knows you're there to be funny.

12:28 So, there's a there's a incremental amount

12:30 of pressure in that situation that's very

12:33 different from the conversation that you and I three of us are having right now.

12:37 And so, for me, it's very daunting.

12:38 It's very pressurized.

12:40 Um can I pass on this?

12:41 We had a comedian that we interviewed called John Bishop

12:44 and there's a film recently come out called Is It On?

12:48 I don't know if you saw it.

12:49 Uh we we had a laugh at it,

12:51 but um it's based on John Bishop's story that he was a guy

12:55 that was working in the pharmaceutical industry for years and his wife left him.

12:59 And she said that he'd become boring,

13:01 that he'd become too corporate, he'd become a corporate drone.

13:04 So, she left him, took the three kids, and he would have them every weekend.

13:08 And then on a uh on a Monday, he'd hand the kids back over to his wife

13:12 and know he wouldn't see them again for a week.

13:14 So, to cope with the sort of trauma he was going through,

13:17 he started taking himself out into into his local

13:21 city where he went to a comedy club.

13:23 And he realized that he could get in for free

13:25 if he agreed to do the open mic nights.

13:29 And it was from there that he started so just talking about his real life,

13:33 his real life situations.

13:34 And he tells a lovely story that one night he was

13:37 in there delivering a set and his wife was in with her friends.

13:40 And she didn't know he was doing stand-up comedy

13:42 and she said that in that moment the spark,

13:45 the person she'd fallen in love with was stood in front of the stage

13:48 uh talking to her and they rekindled the relationship and started again.

13:53 But John told us this great story that he

13:55 said one of the tips that he'd learned and I

13:57 thought that's going to help me with your stand-up

13:59 career if you choose to go back into it.

14:01 Was he said, "When you walk onto the stage, say nothing for ages,

14:04 but move something." Like he would pick up a chair or a microphone stand.

14:08 And he said just that that that brief period

14:11 of time you direct everybody's attention to you and the anticipation

14:14 of what you're going to say next has them on uh um on on the end of the line.

14:19 All good stuff.

14:20 I I I'm going to try it again, of course.

14:23 I don't know if I'm going to be ever be super good at it,

14:25 but I think the funniest people are

14:27 the ones that are saying the truth, guys, right?

14:29 Cuz when you say the truth a lot of people can't handle

14:32 the truth and they especially if you say it with some level of

14:35 you talking about, Anthony?

14:36 Is it is it based around your history and your

14:39 Yeah, I talk about life and talk about raising kids and talk

14:42 about my White House career and you know, by the way,

14:45 I could give you five interactions with Donald Trump because

14:48 of me peeing in your pants because it doesn't even sound normal,

14:51 but then you know it has to be

14:52 because you know normal everything normal everything is.

14:56 Okay, so I want to I want to go to some of these interviews,

14:58 guys, if you don't mind, okay?

14:59 Usain Bolt to Matthew McConaughey What are the main I mean,

15:05 you write about it, so tell us.

15:06 What are the main universal habits

15:09 that consistently separate the top performers?

15:11 Cuz you would think Usain Bolt is different from Matt McConaughey.

15:16 But in so many ways they're very similar.

15:17 Tell us how.

15:19 The thing that links Bolt, Anthony,

15:21 is that they've understood the power of being the light in the room.

15:24 And to throw in another guest that's joined us on High Performance,

15:26 it was will.i.am who came on and said, "Be a spark of light." He said,

15:29 "If you're a spark of light, you get more chances to bat.

15:32 If you're a spark of light and things go wrong,

15:34 people are rooting for you." We underestimate

15:37 the importance of what we can do as individuals,

15:40 particularly in a world where there's 24-hour revolving news,

15:43 where the world seems so big and so muddled,

15:46 we just think, "Well, how can I impact the world?

15:48 I'm just an individual.

15:49 There's nothing I can do." Well,

15:50 the first thing to remember is if you go back through history,

15:53 basically, it's either individuals or small groups

15:56 of individuals that have always changed the world.

15:59 So, I have a reminder to anyone that listens to High

16:01 Performance is you start out being the light in the room.

16:05 You walk into a room and you act like a thermostat, not a thermometer.

16:08 A thermometer just tells you the temperature.

16:09 A thermostat goes in and thinks, "Nah, man,

16:11 I'm changing the temperature." And it's a beautiful way to live.

16:14 So, it's kind of impacted the way that we live.

16:16 So, if I walk if I take my kids, I've got a 10-year-old and 13-year-old.

16:19 If we go to the park and there's five or six

16:21 benches around the play area and there's one person on one bench,

16:23 I will go and sit on the bench next

16:25 to the person and just spark up a conversation.

16:28 Everyone knows something that you don't.

16:30 And I think all of these high performers that we have on the show,

16:33 they have become explorers.

16:35 They're constantly looking for information they don't have.

16:39 Like Usain Bolt, let's talk about those two.

16:41 Usain Bolt's coach once said to him,

16:43 "You're going to have to learn how to lose before you can learn

16:45 how to win." And that was a totally confusing concept for Usain Bolt.

16:50 But he went from a guy who was so nervous

16:52 in his first race that he could barely tie his shoelaces together cuz

16:56 he was shaking so much to winning an Olympic gold without

17:00 even bothering to tie up his shoelaces because he was so confident.

17:03 And that ability to realize,

17:06 "I know that if I push myself to the limit and I lose, then it can happen.

17:11 But if I push myself to the limit,

17:13 is the only way that I'm actually going to win

17:15 this race." And I when I think back to Matthew McConaughey,

17:18 it's kind of an identical lesson said in a very

17:20 different way where he said to us just don't leave crumbs.

17:22 You know the great George Bernard Shaw poem where he

17:25 says I want to be thoroughly used up when I'm gone.

17:28 That is how these people are living.

17:29 They're sparks of light in the room.

17:31 They're thermostats.

17:32 They're givers of energy.

17:34 They change how people around them feel.

17:36 They're optimists.

17:37 No matter how bad a day can be,

17:39 they believe that tomorrow's going to be a great day.

17:41 So they get out of bed and they go again.

17:43 They're They're kind of like they're They're playing the lottery all the time.

17:46 They're buying tickets every single day.

17:47 And it only takes one lottery ticket to pay

17:49 out once a year and you're doing pretty well.

17:52 It's so well said.

17:53 So let's talk about uh building a better future for our young people, okay?

17:59 And what I love about you guys is that you're sharing

18:02 your book uh during this national year of reading in the UK.

18:07 Uh and let's talk about life-long learning.

18:11 Cuz everything that you just said is true, Jake.

18:15 But then there's also this spark of intellectual curiosity where I think I

18:20 would like to think I'm a different person than I was at age 21,

18:24 you know, 41 years later.

18:26 Uh talk a little bit about that.

18:28 Talk about the need for people to constantly

18:30 read and constantly try to improve themselves.

18:34 Well, I I grew up in a neighborhood similar to yours.

18:37 I'm in the blue-collar neighborhood in Manchester in the north of England.

18:40 So my dad was a boxing coach.

18:43 So I grew up surrounded by sort of these incredible physical specimens,

18:48 guys who were going on to Olympic Games

18:50 and uh then you know boxing for world titles eventually.

18:54 So the message that I took out of that environment though was it

18:58 was about the power of education and and being able to be a sponge,

19:02 whether that was you were choosing to go after elite

19:05 performance physically or it my dad In my dad's case,

19:09 he pushed me down the road of academia.

19:11 He realized that uh he wasn't particularly good at boxing,

19:14 but he said that you can always go and learn.

19:17 And it was very much that idea about being a sponge, not a rock.

19:23 This is one of the things that we've heard from so many

19:25 of our guests that there's almost two ways you can go and experience anything.

19:29 You can either go and be curious and sponge

19:32 and and seek to soak up as much information as you can,

19:35 or you can be impervious to that information and just let it wash over you.

19:40 I sometimes think of there's a great book by a guy called Andrew Loog Oldham,

19:44 who was the Rolling Stones' first manager, and he tells a story in the '60s.

19:48 He took Jimi Hendrix into a club in New York,

19:50 and there was a guitarist he went to see

19:52 on there who Andrew Loog Oldham said this guy was dreadful.

19:55 It was obvious in the first couple of chords

19:57 that this guy didn't know what he was doing, and he said,

19:59 "Come on, let's leave." And Jimi Hendrix said, "No,

20:01 I'm staying." And when he said, "What on earth are you staying for?" he said,

20:04 "This guy is that bad, he might do something by accident that is

20:08 a spark of genius." And it I sometimes think

20:11 of that example that even somebody as as elite

20:14 as Jimi Hendrix was open was a sponge.

20:16 He was open to learning from anybody that was

20:18 putting themselves in the arena to do something with it.

20:21 And when we think about this national year of reading,

20:24 I often I look there's all kinds of quotes in there that leaders are readers,

20:29 but this idea that you've got some of the finest minds

20:32 on the planet have distilled all their years of wisdom and experience,

20:36 and they put it in a page of a book,

20:37 and it's there for you if you want to take that mindset of being a sponge

20:41 and going to soak it up and be able to assimilate it into your own life.

20:45 I think it's sad, you know, Anthony,

20:46 that we stop exploring at some point in our lives.

20:49 There was a bit of research done where

20:50 researchers went into a classroom of 3-year-olds and said,

20:53 "Put your hands up if you can sing." And every hand went in the air.

20:56 Then they went into a classroom of 13-year-olds,

20:57 asked them the same question, and two hands went up.

21:00 Because everyone added, "Well, put your hands in Put your hand up if you

21:04 can sing well." They assumed that's what they were asking.

21:07 And I think one of the problems with life is

21:09 that we assume that if we're not good at something

21:11 then we need to stop doing it or there's

21:13 a moment where we stop exploring or seeing what's next.

21:15 And I think it's such a shame.

21:16 My message particularly for young people is

21:18 that in this world where you're given so much negative information,

21:21 the reality is you've never lived at a greater time.

21:24 You've never been able to access every book ever written

21:27 on the internet within moments of wanting to read them.

21:30 Like that literally wasn't possible for the previous generation.

21:33 It's possible for this You know,

21:35 you're the great tutoring that AI can provide us as well.

21:39 So is it Totally right.

21:41 That's also a game changer.

21:42 And you know, we work we've created a high

21:43 performance foundation Anthony working in schools right across the UK.

21:47 100,000 young people at the moment are getting lessons

21:50 from high performance where they sit in the classroom

21:53 setting and they watch video content from the guests

21:57 that have joined us on the show.

21:58 So when you've got leading internationally

22:01 famous figures teaching lessons to young

22:04 people about open-mindedness and being inquisitive

22:07 and being resilient and being an explorer.

22:10 I think we're um I think we're on to something good.

22:12 Well, I I greatly appreciate you both.

22:15 Okay, we we are down to the five words in my podcast.

22:18 So it's a I'm going to give you the word.

22:21 You have to give me one word.

22:22 You got to get yourself tight.

22:23 You got to get yourself tight.

22:24 You're Ready?

22:26 So if I say the word reading, you say what?

22:29 Growth.

22:30 Okay, if I say the word mindset.

22:33 Kindness.

22:34 Okay, habits.

22:36 Everything.

22:38 Discipline.

22:40 Consistency.

22:42 High performance.

22:44 Available.

22:45 What I learned from the two of you, high performance is repeatable.

22:49 Yeah.

22:49 If you use all of those words that I just said.

22:52 So it's Jack Humphrey and Damian Hughes, ladies and gentlemen,

22:56 best-selling authors tiny changes that supercharge high performance

23:03 but also an award-winning podcast called high performance.

23:06 Guys, thank you so much for joining us today on Open Book.

23:09 Thank you, Hussein.

23:10 Thank you for having us on.

23:11 It's been a privilege.