'The Passion of the Christ' - Good Friday Review

0:03 Love people.

0:09 It's the AC FOR THE LOVE OF GOD.

0:12 LOVEACE.

0:16 Hello and welcome to the AC podcast.

0:18 My name is Troy and I am here today with my colleagues Ben and Steve.

0:22 Gentlemen, welcome.

0:24 Welcome.

0:24 Thanks for being on the podcast this week.

0:26 Good to be here.

0:28 Yep.

0:28 Good to be here.

0:30 Well, today we're getting right into uh a conversation

0:33 that if you are listening to this recording on uh the specific date that it is

0:39 meant for, it is actually Good Friday of 2026.

0:44 And we are having a conversation that quite honestly

0:47 the AC podcast couldn't have had 20 years ago.

0:50 Um we're we're having a conversation about the movie The Passion of the Christ.

0:56 And I I I don't know if you guys remember when

0:59 it was released and all the kind of fandemonium around it.

1:02 What What are some of the things that you guys remember when it first came out?

1:05 I I remember going to see it in theaters with my dad.

1:08 And it's funny this I haven't seen it since that day.

1:14 Wow.

1:13 Uh because I remember well I mean those who have

1:16 seen it and I'm sure we will talk about this but

1:19 it's it's one of the heaviest movies I've ever watched in my life.

1:22 I don't know that anything can compare.

1:23 So all I remember was I remember leaving

1:26 the theater with my father in complete silence.

1:30 Like there was just like you couldn't

1:32 really say much for a little while afterward.

1:35 And yeah, I remember I I remember that at least.

1:38 And I remember it being a very big cultural deal at the time.

1:41 Yeah, I I went to watch it in theaters, too, when it came out.

1:44 And like most people, you know, at some point partway through the movie,

1:51 and I'm sure we'll we'll come to this, but there was

1:53 the one particular scene that was really hard to take for me.

1:57 So, like most other people, I curled up in the fetal position and bald.

2:04 Yeah, I remember that.

2:04 And it was the time when I really didn't cry in movies.

2:09 Like I was my heart was really kind of hard in a lot of ways.

2:12 Now it's like I mean anything could have a leaf

2:15 could fall in a movie and I'd be like but I didn't really do that back then.

2:20 Exactly.

2:20 I was about to say that's cuz you're a dad now.

2:23 Yeah.

2:23 But uh back then I really didn't.

2:25 And that movie though just broke me.

2:28 Yeah.

2:28 Yeah.

2:29 Yeah.

2:29 It was um I remember I remember

2:32 the first time that I actually remember seeing it.

2:35 I don't think I went to the theater,

2:37 but I do know that a church that I went to did a screening of it.

2:40 We went into one of the separate rooms and we watched the Passion of the Christ.

2:44 And I remember just Yeah, I was wrecked.

2:48 I was absolutely wrecked.

2:49 And um the part of the reason why we wanted to talk

2:52 about this is because Good Friday is always such an interesting day,

2:55 a day that you know Christians and I mean Christians, Catholics,

2:59 everyone to a certain degree celebrates in in one capacity or another.

3:03 But it is such a day that at least

3:05 for us it's like man this was a horrible horrible day.

3:09 And when this movie came out, there was so so much controversy around it.

3:14 I mean, for those who may not know who Mel Gibson is,

3:18 shout out to all the Gen Z's who may be listening along.

3:22 Um, Mel Gibson was iconic for movies like Braveheart.

3:26 And Braveheart in in its own right was a for its

3:30 time anyway was a very aggressive, very violent movie.

3:34 And Mel Gibson is a very eclectic character.

3:38 Um, and so when he wanted to do a a movie,

3:42 if I'm not mistaken, Mel Gibson is Roman Catholic, correct?

3:47 Yeah, I I believe so.

3:48 But of I think if I heard correctly, I mean, things might have changed since,

3:52 but I heard it might be like a an old Catholic

3:57 where they still celebrate the mass in Latin, that sort of thing.

4:00 I think he might be a part of that crew.

4:02 Yeah.

4:03 And so there was just a lot of controversy around it,

4:06 you know, when it when it first came out.

4:07 Were you guys like I know we were all kind of around similar ages,

4:10 but do you guys remember the controversy that that was around it?

4:14 Yeah, definitely.

4:14 I remember I remember it being um a hot button issue.

4:20 I if I recall it more was in the sense of because this clearly wasn't a movie

4:25 focusing on the ministry of Jesus as much

4:27 as it was it was the passion narrative.

4:29 And so the brutality of it was something that Christians were kind

4:34 of on either side of the fence for, you know, and uh

4:38 and yeah, it's funny, you know,

4:39 it's just funny hearing you guys talk about how

4:41 wrecked you were watching it because if I'm honest,

4:43 I remember the emotion I had watching it was anger.

4:47 Like I I I really felt anger.

4:49 I wanted to become Mel Gibson in Payback watching that movie,

4:53 you know, like that was the feeling I had.

4:55 So it just I guess there was a bit of controversy

4:58 with the fact that Gibson was the one who was

5:00 doing it as well and and I also remember it being

5:03 a bit of a he's obviously had some scandals with anti-semitism

5:07 and I think I remember that being a major part of the scandal

5:10 of the movie was how did it depict the Jewish people?

5:13 How did it depict the the Sanhedrin or the Pharisees?

5:17 Yeah.

5:18 Yeah.

5:18 No, that's that's really interesting because I I

5:21 think even for the time of that movie,

5:22 it was relatively new for I would say anyone who had a faith in Jesus Christ,

5:28 regardless of denomination,

5:29 to be in such a public eye in regards to Hollywood, right?

5:34 And Hollywood kind of blacklisted this movie.

5:36 We're not going to push it.

5:37 We're not going to fund it.

5:38 But Mel Gibson basically had to fund the movie himself with his team.

5:42 And it was waves.

5:43 And and similar to you, Ben,

5:44 when it when it first came out, I remember being shocked.

5:50 Like, for one, I'd never seen anything like that of any movie of any kind.

5:55 Like, the most gruesome thing I had seen maybe

5:56 to that point was The Lord of the Rings.

5:58 And there's next to no blood in that in that video in I

6:03 I would go ahead and say this is like the most violent movie I've ever seen.

6:07 Absolutely.

6:08 You know, take away the fact that it's our Lord who's the subject of it.

6:12 Uh, it still is one of the most horrifically brutal movies I've ever watched.

6:19 Yeah.

6:18 Yeah.

6:18 And and I think a a lot of people got really disturbed,

6:21 especially that part when the Roman soldiers began flogging Jesus, right?

6:27 Because one of the things that Mel Gibson did is that he didn't abridge it.

6:31 He didn't shorten it.

6:33 He just let that run.

6:36 And yeah, even before the flocking starts,

6:39 you see the Roman soldiers kind of sniggering

6:42 about things and they're testing out their whips.

6:47 Yeah.

6:46 Um, now the the one that's depicted in the movie is

6:49 the cat of nine tails that's supposed to actually grab onto your flesh.

6:54 Um, now I I've talked to Wes about this and apparently we're

6:58 not entirely sure what kind of whip they would have actually used,

7:03 but that I mean the cat of ninetails is just one possibility, right?

7:06 Assuming that that's what was used.

7:08 I mean I mean this is this is a brutal thing and it just kept going and going

7:15 and going and I mean really that's when I lost

7:18 it about you know 10 12 stripes in I was

7:23 like in a fetal position you almost move

7:27 to the question of like was it really this long like

7:30 you almost go is Mel Gibson taking a liberty

7:33 because it really I mean it just goes on forever

7:37 forever

7:37 and you question, how could a human being be so brutal?

7:41 It did a It did a fantastic job of highlighting that.

7:45 Yeah.

7:45 I And and I think that's where a lot of the narrative, I think,

7:49 even of this conversation,

7:51 it could potentially go because it is a depiction, right?

7:55 Scripture doesn't give us a timeline of how brutalized he was,

7:59 but what we know of, you know,

8:02 Roman torture or, you know, Roman authority and just kind of their demeanor.

8:07 They were masters at this.

8:09 Um, they were masters of of mutilation and of hurting

8:14 people and making people feel the weight of their consequences.

8:18 And you know, The Passion of Christ came out 20 years ago, you guys.

8:23 20 years ago.

8:24 Don't do that, Troy.

8:25 It makes me feel

8:29 Hey, we'll we'll double back on Father's Day and we'll feel better about it.

8:32 But I I just the fact that this came out 20 years ago and I mean for me um

8:40 I have made it a practice uh to actually

8:43 watch it every year um around this time intentionally.

8:47 And I have to say every every single year as I you know cuz I'll follow

8:51 along with with scripture um as I'm reading

8:54 and you know there is a measure where it's

8:57 much like the chosen is trying to fill in gaps that we don't know are there

9:01 but I I definitely watch it differently definitely watched

9:04 it differently this year than probably any other year.

9:07 Hey everybody, Wes Huff here.

9:09 I want to very quickly let you

9:10 know about our upcoming Ontario Leadership Summit.

9:14 I'm going to be there.

9:15 AC's own Ben McDonald is also going to be in attendance

9:19 and many others that you won't want to miss out on.

9:22 Our leadership summits bring together

9:25 aspiring Christian thought leaders from across

9:28 the country for an incredible weekend of networking and equipping.

9:33 This is an opportunity for young professionals and student leaders aged 19

9:39 to 30 to meet one another and grow together as Christian thought leaders.

9:45 We want to see you May 29th to 31st

9:49 at Heritage College and Seminary for the Ontario Leadership Summit.

9:55 Space is very limited, so apply today on the AC website.

9:59 And now, let's get back to the podcast.

10:03 I felt very much the same.

10:04 I watch this time watching it,

10:06 I had a very different kind of lens for it, I think.

10:10 And

10:10 let's get into that.

10:11 What was that?

10:12 Well, I I think the biggest thing truly here's what I would say.

10:15 I would say as a theologian,

10:17 we sometimes get caught up in a a very cold and static way,

10:22 it can happen at least,

10:23 of looking at the cross as it's as though it's a theory, right?

10:26 We always talk about theories,

10:27 atonement theories and like penal substitution or Christ's

10:30 victor or ransom theory or or moral exemplarism.

10:33 And you you categorize all these things, you put them into doctrines.

10:37 And and I should preface this by saying I'm not a big Jesus movie guy.

10:41 Like I have an issue.

10:43 I don't have a problem with people watching like The Chosen or something.

10:45 I just personally have a difficult time with artistic depictions,

10:50 film doing stuff with Jesus because I'm I'm so clear about like

10:55 scripture and the text and the fact that it's given as the word.

10:58 So totally so that's always but I have to admit

11:01 since watching this I have been in this Easter meditation.

11:04 I think this movie really changed some things that I look at and one of them

11:09 is this very fact that sometimes we're looking at all these theories,

11:12 these atonement theories and when you watch this movie

11:16 the mystery of it actually comes into full like all those theories

11:21 strip back and sort of fall away and you are left going

11:26 why did this have to happen?

11:28 Like why did they do this to this innocent man?

11:32 and suddenly you you identify so much with Christ's endurance.

11:38 I don't think it's something that I ever really I don't think it hit

11:41 me nearly as much as it ever has just watching this again and seeing

11:46 this sort of almost almost recognizing

11:48 that the typological reference like if you

11:51 were to go like where in the Old Testament is this being talked about?

11:54 Where do you see this?

11:55 This is the story of Job.

11:57 This is like the righteous man who is just being absolutely brutalized.

12:04 Yeah.

12:03 By Satan and and his and being like the temptation to just curse God and die.

12:10 And you go,

12:12 our Lord suffered this and did not turn is the most remarkable thing about it.

12:18 And I just the movie just highlighted that in a way

12:20 I never I haven't felt that in a long time.

12:25 Yeah.

12:24 Yeah.

12:24 you know, back when I first watched it.

12:28 Um, that's when like when I had first

12:31 started attending Bible school, that sort of thing.

12:34 And I remember sitting in one of the classes and the teacher brought that up.

12:42 Um, and he was not necessarily upset, but one of the critiques that he had was

12:49 that it spent too much time on the passion.

12:52 And really the resurrection is just a few seconds at the end.

12:58 You know what I mean?

12:59 And so why, you know, like we are the resurrection people.

13:03 Why didn't did Mel Gibson spend so much time on the passion kind of thing?

13:08 And I was sitting there thinking that's Mark's gospel, isn't it?

13:14 Yeah.

13:14 I was like, why do we hurry towards the resurrection so much?

13:18 because the resurrection means so much precisely because of the passion

13:23 and the reality is we don't spend yearly enough time reflecting on the passion.

13:29 Now I did grow up Roman Catholic and in the Catholic church

13:33 I think there is a little bit more of that time spent you

13:36 know the way of the cross as you go through the 14

13:39 stations and those kinds of things but especially in the Protestant circles I

13:44 find that we're too we rush towards the resurrection too quickly and so

13:48 when I uh give a talk on the historicity of the resurrection

13:53 one of the things I'll do is as I talk about the swoon

13:56 theory the idea that Jesus just kind of fainted on on the cross.

14:00 Um, I kind of take the time to describe this is what the crucifixion is like.

14:06 And I have to tell you, some people just can't take it.

14:09 And I had, you know, especially when I'm speaking to an Asian crowd,

14:13 I had some young women like covering their ears, not wanting to listen to this.

14:19 But the reason I do this is not just for the shock value.

14:22 I tell them, listen, the reason I tell you this is because we as Christians

14:29 sometimes say Jesus died for our sins way too quickly.

14:36 And we we talk about the fact that he died for our sins,

14:41 but we don't often think about the kind of death that he died for us.

14:46 And and that Steve is is part of why I made it a personal practice.

14:49 It's like it's not it's obviously my kids will they

14:52 will not be watching this until they're older, you know.

14:55 Um I I was I'm trying to remember even one how old I was 2004.

15:00 Yeah, I guess I would have been 14 15 and even then it's like holy cow.

15:05 Um, but part for me is is just like what you said, Steve,

15:09 is why I watch it yearly is to remember even though he's filling

15:13 in gaps and we don't know the full measure and timeline and intensity,

15:18 it is very clear that he was bruised for our transgressions, right?

15:23 Um, and and and all of that

15:25 begins with that, right?

15:26 It begins with Isaiah 53 at the very beginning of the movie.

15:29 I thought that framed it very well.

15:31 Yeah, absolutely.

15:32 And you know, one of the things I think hits me the most

15:35 every time I watch it is seeing the humanity of of Peter and Judas,

15:40 watching how they're again, watching how they're portrayed.

15:45 For me, if if you remove if you remove,

15:48 you know, the length of time that, you know,

15:50 the the the beating is taking place and the walking, you know,

15:54 the carrying of the cross and the via Delar Roa,

15:56 the two of the most impactful things for me

15:59 are Peter and Judas because they actually respond the same.

16:04 Even when you look at the the text, they actually respond relative.

16:08 A grief overcomes them both.

16:10 What they do with that grief is different.

16:12 But to your point that you're making, Steve, how the resurrection was so short.

16:16 I agree with you in that we you

16:18 know we sometimes run to the resurrection but Peter's

16:21 redemption is so important for that for what

16:25 you know for this moment for our understanding

16:28 of ourselves even if you're going to show Judas and how Judas deals with his sin

16:33 and he hangs himself in the in the movie

16:35 seeing Peter be redeemed is just as important because

16:38 of the grief that that you know you can only imagine he would have he would have

16:43 gone through I mean they ran away he

16:45 was it says that the disciples dispersed and so

16:48 Jesus was really alone with whoever then were

16:50 the scribes and the writers of the time

16:52 right but yeah seeing the humanity of the disciples

16:55 but also just who we can sometimes be I think that's exactly right I think one

17:00 of the things that the the movie highlights

17:02 as well that can get missed when you're

17:05 reading the text in a fragmented way like I think if you were to just sit down

17:08 and read the passion narrative maybe it's a little

17:11 different but often we get this in little drips and drabs right like we get it

17:14 in small doses here and there sometimes

17:16 and you forget about these other characters who are

17:19 are there who you're seeing this narrative through

17:22 and I think this you know to Steve's point

17:24 the passion narrative is the bulk of the gospel

17:28 like it is 2third of John's gospel 66%

17:31 of John's gospel is the passion of the synoptics

17:34 of Matthew Mark and Luke it's it's like

17:37 a still a large percentage is just focused on this

17:41 suffering of Christ and what this means it's at the center of everything I want

17:45 to say as well that and this might

17:47 again this might sound like it's a Catholic thing.

17:50 It's not.

17:50 It's a Christian thing.

17:52 The movie does a great job of reminding you that Mary is there the entire

17:57 time and in a way you are viewing the entire thing through her eyes.

18:02 Yeah.

18:02 Yeah.

18:02 And I thought that was a very interesting

18:04 way of understanding like what does that mean

18:07 about like who Mary is in relation to us as the church as the ones

18:11 who who view this and have to uh have to witness it and like

18:17 and even more than that who care for the body who lament over the Lord.

18:21 I just thought it it sent so many

18:24 um or it just highlighted something new for me.

18:27 No, that's really good.

18:28 Yeah.

18:28 And and even in the movie,

18:30 the way they portrayed Mary's heart was really touching for me.

18:37 Um I mean obviously here Mel Gibson took some artistic license,

18:42 but when the flocking was done, here's Mary, right?

18:48 She comes with this white cloth and she's dabbing the blood away.

18:51 And what I noticed watching this is not she's not just sweeping,

18:57 she's dabbing as if she's trying to get it all back sort of a thing.

19:02 And there I I look at it especially

19:04 I don't know with my sort of Asian sentiment.

19:07 I'm watching this I'm just like I could see a mother's heart in this and she's

19:11 not this blood belongs to her son and she doesn't want it just gone, right?

19:18 So she's it it's precious to her kind of a thing.

19:21 Now again artistic license but I think it gets

19:25 the point across of just the kind of thing

19:28 a mother would feel watching her son go

19:32 through what Jesus was going through in the movie.

19:34 Right.

19:43 Do you remember the first time you heard the gospel?

19:47 That moment when someone somewhere shared

19:50 the good news of Jesus Christ with you.

19:55 Maybe it was your friend.

19:58 Maybe it was a total stranger.

19:59 Glory to God.

20:01 Or maybe it was your mom.

20:03 Lead us not into temptation.

20:05 Whoever it was and whenever it happened,

20:07 it's why you are the way that you are today.

20:13 It's the reason you do life with people here.

20:17 and do things like this or love people like this.

20:23 I regret to inform you that all of them because the God of the universe,

20:28 the God who created everything sent someone somewhere to die in your place.

20:36 And then he sent someone else somewhere else to share that good news with you.

20:49 Now it's your turn to be that someone for someone else.

20:58 Maybe it's here or here, here, or here.

21:07 Wherever you are, someone somewhere is waiting for you.

21:12 And we can't wait to help you be that someone

21:15 for them because together we can tell the world.

21:31 I was just looking up right now because I

21:33 was remembering I'm like if you remember when he's carrying

21:36 the cross there's also that woman that that wipes

21:38 his face and my my brain im immediately was like

21:42 oh is this uh is this uh Mel Gibson trying to say this is how we got the shroud

21:46 of tour in you know like is this is

21:49 this that depiction but apparently it's supposed to be St.

21:51 Veronica.

21:52 Yeah, the depiction of St.

21:53 of Saint Veronica.

21:54 And it again you're I'm watching it in a whole different light cuz

21:58 I'm I'm sitting here thinking I'm like wait who is this person right?

22:01 And then there's then there's also Simon

22:03 right the who helps Jesus carry the cross.

22:05 And I like I was saying I think if you're

22:08 someone who you know I'm never watching the passion again.

22:10 I'm never I honestly I think you'll be just fine.

22:13 I think you are more than fine to go

22:15 and just read the gospels just read the scriptures.

22:18 you know, read of the the prophecies

22:20 of Jesus and you will have a fully well-rounded,

22:24 healthy understanding of who who Jesus Christ is.

22:27 Um, and I and I want to stress that because

22:29 I don't ever want people to think that because,

22:31 you know, I watch it every year or we're even

22:33 talking about it that this means every believer should watch this.

22:36 I was not on that side.

22:37 I'm still not on that side.

22:39 I don't think every believer should watch this.

22:41 Um, and and and my reasoning is because it is intense.

22:45 It is very, very intense.

22:47 And it the unfortunate thing is is very quickly a person could go to watch

22:52 this for entertainment and I think when that starts

22:55 becoming your reasoning like man I love that movie.

22:58 I don't I don't know if I ever want to hear someone say I love that that movie.

23:02 You know what I mean?

23:03 It would be a weird response in a way.

23:05 Yeah.

23:06 Yeah.

23:06 It'd be it'd be a weird weird response, but um you know,

23:09 just I I know we're talking about the movie in particular,

23:12 but what are some of the ways that you

23:13 guys have uh traditionally observed the Holy Week,

23:18 you know, Good Palm Sunday, Good Friday, Easter.

23:21 So, so for myself, you know, being raised in the in the Anglican church,

23:25 I've always appreciated the high liturgy of of Holy Week.

23:29 And and one of the things that I, you know, I still,

23:31 so to this day, I don't necessarily go to a high Anglican service all the time.

23:35 That's not really my life with my family and stuff.

23:38 But every Good Friday,

23:39 I tend to go down to King's College and go to the Anglican

23:42 service where there's actually the stripping of the altar and the, you know,

23:46 the priests are in black and barefoot and you lay prostrate on the floor and you

23:51 kiss the feet of Christ and it's it's

23:53 a really beautiful beautiful movement or moment really.

23:58 And it and it goes to again Steve what you were talking

24:00 about earlier of like I don't want to rush to the resurrection.

24:04 I want the full weight of the cost of salvation

24:09 that is present in the Easter week, you know,

24:11 to to get myself to Easter Sunday that I can appreciate it all the more uh

24:16 if I actually go through that process

24:19 and meditate on it and live through that suffering.

24:22 So I think that that's hugely important for me.

24:27 Yeah.

24:26 Yeah.

24:26 And I myself in the last number of years I've

24:30 joined the Anglican church as many of our listeners know.

24:34 Um before that though like I said growing up in a Catholic church

24:41 the holy week was very it was a somber week and you could feel it.

24:48 So walking into the church walking into the sanctuary you could feel it.

24:53 Everything was very somber.

24:57 Mhm.

24:56 And in fact, there was a certain kind of not just the environment was somber,

25:01 but people were actually appreciating this and being somber.

25:05 And I think the whole Lenton uh season leading up

25:08 to the holy week in a sense prepared us for it.

25:12 And one of the things that I love about attending

25:15 an Anglican church now is that I have recovered some of that.

25:18 So, you know, we don't we we don't have to do this in the Anglican church.

25:24 Like, it's not like this is a requirement or anything

25:26 like that, but my family has chosen, for example,

25:28 to abstain from eating meat on Fridays or, you know,

25:34 um, and just kind of finding that rhythm, right?

25:37 And all of these sort of embodiment

25:39 of that that the spirit of the season really helped us

25:44 appreciate when Easter Sunday does come and the kind

25:49 of and and then the the contrast is just

25:52 amazing on on Easter Sunday that there is celebration

25:56 and one of the things that we don't do as you know Ben during the Lent season is

26:02 that we actually don't say in the liturgy hallelujah.

26:05 Yeah.

26:08 Right.

26:07 We don't do that.

26:08 But Easter Sunday comes,

26:10 that's like we say this, we say this three times, right?

26:14 Yeah.

26:14 Let it fly.

26:15 Let that thing fly.

26:16 Let it fly.

26:18 Exactly.

26:18 Yeah.

26:19 And and so that that even those kinds of embodiment of the story of, you know,

26:26 the Holy Week, Easter,

26:28 and the suffering of Jesus that we kind of remember during the Lent season.

26:33 All of that has been very very meaningful for us.

26:37 Yeah.

26:37 What about you Troy?

26:38 Yeah, for me growing up um as as I've mentioned on the podcast before,

26:41 I grew up nonam and so anything that we observed I I've

26:48 come to realize that that was just what my parents wanted to observe.

26:52 That's how they wanted to um do things.

26:54 And so my dad actually again during

26:58 during the Holy Week he would acknowledge it.

27:00 So every, you know, Palm Sunday was acknowledged, right?

27:04 That that time in between throughout the week,

27:06 I could always just tell my dad was in a bit of a different space.

27:10 My dad is a very, I would say my dad is

27:12 a very spiritually sensitive guy um in a lot of respects.

27:15 Like while we, for example, we may not have ever had a liturgy,

27:19 but he took the word of God very very very serious.

27:22 You know, like there may not have been some traditional lurggical moment,

27:26 but there was always going to be a commission.

27:28 The way he approached the word of God was very very intentional.

27:33 You know, if he was if he was preparing for a sermon, my dad was just the type,

27:37 it's like the doors closed, you let him approach the word,

27:40 you know, you let him prepare.

27:41 It was never this like willy-nilly just let me throw something together.

27:45 It was very clear.

27:47 And and then when by the time Good Friday would come around,

27:50 my dad would begin fasting.

27:52 And he would fast from on Good Friday up to up to Easter.

27:56 And I from what I remember um I'd have to ask him again,

27:59 but from what I remember, he was just full on I'm just having water.

28:03 That's all he would all he would have for those two days.

28:06 And then he the next time he would eat

28:08 would be at the end of service Sunday evening.

28:12 Um that was that's how he observed it.

28:14 And I remember doing it with him a couple times as as a kid,

28:17 but never lasting as long as he could.

28:20 I maybe like my mom would be like, "All right,

28:22 well, you're going to have at least lunch." I'm like,

28:23 "Okay." Uh cuz I was the kid that would faint if I didn't eat.

28:27 So there's those reasons.

28:28 But it's funny that we we use all of these symbols, right,

28:32 or devices or things like and I think this is to your point,

28:35 Troy, like I I would not recommend everybody goes and watch this movie.

28:38 Like you don't need to do that.

28:40 And that's precisely why you have not only scripture

28:43 that gives you the vivid picture of this, right?

28:46 It's that's all you really need.

28:48 But that's also why we have liturgy.

28:50 That's also and everyone has liturgy.

28:51 I mean we sometimes think about liturgy as only

28:54 something that like high church does but that's not true.

28:57 Everybody is doing a lurggical act but I think that what

29:00 that highlights is that there are different ways that we absorb

29:04 this story and and live it out and make it

29:08 a part of our daily lives and something that we live into.

29:11 And I will say that that's something that finally watching this movie,

29:14 being a person who does not watch Jesus' movies,

29:18 um it did highlight things in ways that I

29:21 don't know I was going to get any other way.

29:24 And one of them I will say probably the biggest thing for me and and I

29:28 would say this is the the verse that made me a Christian is is Luke uh 23:34.

29:34 Forgive them, father, for they know not what they're doing.

29:36 That line is too hauntingly beautiful and contrary to every way

29:40 of human reasoning that it it just had to be true to me.

29:44 Yeah, that's what really solidified my belief.

29:45 Well, when you watch this movie, that line is so pronounced.

29:49 It is so unbelievably radical that Jesus says

29:54 that from the cross that it takes you back.

29:57 And as a matter of fact, I loved how Mel Gibson,

29:59 what he did in the movie was he sort of took the artistic license to make

30:03 Jesus saying that the reason why the thief on the cross is so so perplexed.

30:10 Like he goes, "You're praying for them?" Like, "Do we understand the gravity?

30:16 I want to kill someone when they've cut me off in traffic." Right.

30:20 Right.

30:21 My human nature wants to move to Mel Gibson so quickly.

30:24 Right.

30:24 I remember the first time I saw Passion of the Christ, my thought was

30:28 I wish I had a gun and I could, you know, and that would do everything.

30:32 But that's human emotion.

30:33 Yeah.

30:34 And yet Jesus prays for these people.

30:37 And man, that it challenges our notions too of why the cross, right?

30:42 It challenges the whole idea of of why did Jesus have to die,

30:47 you know, like why did he have to go through this?

30:49 And and it makes you realize like there are

30:52 some models of the atonement that unfortunately get characterized

30:55 and are wrongly placed in thinking that God was

30:57 really angry and had to beat up his son.

30:59 Like you watch this and you go these Roman centurions are not God's henchmen.

31:04 No.

31:06 Okay.

31:05 They are the enemies of God.

31:07 They are the right and he prays for them and he asks for their forgiveness.

31:12 I I'm blown away by it.

31:13 I've been I've been there all week after watching that movie.

31:16 Yeah.

31:17 And watching that too, like that brutality of it all, right?

31:22 The brutality that comes from the Romans and the way, you know,

31:28 the religious leaders were jeering and sneering

31:32 in this sort of triumphalistic kind of, oh,

31:36 you know, like if you really are the son of God, you get yourself down.

31:40 Let's see it, right?

31:41 Do it.

31:42 You can do it.

31:43 Um, just watching all of that.

31:46 I mean, it it yes, Jesus did pray, "Father, forgive them.

31:50 They don't know what they're doing." But on the other side,

31:53 I also think to myself, but there's going to come a day when God is coming.

32:01 Jesus is returning in judgment, right?

32:05 And and so this is something that we have to reckon with that someday he's going

32:10 to come with judgment and just kind

32:13 of watching the brutality all of a sudden highlights the judgment.

32:18 I'm like yeah he's right to judge people for doing something like this.

32:23 You know this is a conversation we have had so many times.

32:26 It's I find it interesting.

32:27 Andy and I were talking about this when we're talking about the problem of evil

32:30 and people people for instance who have an issue

32:32 with like the judgment passages of the Old

32:34 Testament and oh isn't God kind of nasty for you know for going after people

32:40 or or for you know subduing nations

32:42 and things like that and you go you're reading

32:45 the Bible like a tourist like imagine you live in Rome you going to be

32:49 happy with a culture that is crucifying people

32:52 on city streets like they are lined up on crosses they are being flawed logged

32:57 this way brought to the point of near death

32:59 and then as entertainment we put them in gladiator

33:02 rings and have Christians eaten by tigers like

33:05 and even and even the depiction of the religious

33:08 leaders right like it's not even just the Romans

33:11 like this is what they did right there's accounts of of people who

33:15 came before like you're not that's why they're like you're not the first one

33:20 so like you're not the first one who we say blasphemed

33:23 and has come saying he's the Messiah and he's not here either,

33:27 you know, like that.

33:28 Yeah, totally.

33:29 And I and I do find that those objections most

33:34 often come in places where there is relative safety and comfort.

33:40 Yeah.

33:39 You know what I mean?

33:40 like people don't talk like that when they escaped

33:43 for example uh you know certain a certain theologian who escaped

33:48 from the Soviet rule that brutal regime you know

33:52 and him saying yeah I could I could see why judgment

33:55 is needed um but also another dimension to that that I

34:00 don't think we often think about is looking

34:02 at that brutality and if we really believe that Jesus took

34:06 on what we deserved do we really think we deserved that?

34:12 Do we really think that we deserve to be flogged like that?

34:16 Had our shoulders dislocated and nailed, you know,

34:20 our hands and wrists nailed to the to the wood.

34:23 Do we really?

34:24 And do you think we would have the strength of character to say,

34:28 "Father, forgive them while I'm fighting somebody that

34:32 I'm fighting somebody." If I know a like I got angels,

34:36 I'm taking at least one of y'all just just as an example.

34:40 I just want you to know this is what time we're on.

34:43 Okay, I'm going to take this guy out and then I'm going to continue on my way.

34:46 But I'm not Jesus.

34:47 And that's why that's the other dimension, Troy.

34:49 That's the other dimension that exactly what you're saying there too, Steve,

34:52 is the fact that we also have to somehow reckon with I'm the one who did this.

34:57 Like I did this to Jesus in my sin.

35:00 I put a lash on his body.

35:02 like it's me who's nailing him to the cross unless I can actually

35:05 bring myself to the point of going like I'm the reason he's hanging there.

35:10 I don't really understand the radical.

35:12 Like he's saying that to me.

35:14 He's saying forgive them, father.

35:15 They know not what they're doing.

35:16 To me, um I have to kind of stand in that place, you know?

35:21 Uh yeah, it's incredible.

35:23 Well guys, as I mean this as as we've seen this this movie

35:26 sparks a lot of conversation and there's a lot a lot to be said,

35:29 but I want to give you guys an opportunity if there's

35:31 anything else that kind of just sparked um while you guys were,

35:35 you know, while you guys were watching this before we we come to a close.

35:38 Yeah, for sure.

35:39 And there's something Steve said there about the fact that, you know,

35:42 when you're watching Jesus being brutally flogged and stuff,

35:46 but then you remember like he's coming again

35:48 in power and and and these people are mocking him.

35:51 And this was this was this reflection that dawned

35:54 on me uh just last week because it was Palm Sunday.

35:57 And here's a little nugget for you, okay?

36:00 I I don't know, maybe some people have thought of this before,

36:02 but I sort of have never put this together that when

36:05 you read on Palm Sunday when Jesus has the triumphal entry,

36:08 the triumphal entry is supposed to be about his kingship, right?

36:11 This is he's being hailed as the king and he's coming from the east.

36:15 He's coming from the Mount of Olives, right?

36:17 And we we actually know contextually that because

36:21 it's Passover and he's coming from the east,

36:23 Pilate would have been coming from the west

36:25 from Caesar where he where he would have lived.

36:28 So you have Jesus on the donkey coming from the east

36:31 and then you have the you know Roman Pilate riding

36:35 on a on a chariot on a massive horse with armies

36:38 coming from the west and then it's the triumphal entry.

36:42 So it's about kingship.

36:43 So again I'm always looking for typological references.

36:45 I find them very interesting.

36:47 So yeah, east, west, Jesus comes into the city and how

36:50 do they how do they greet him, right?

36:52 Hosana in the highest.

36:53 And they say, "Here comes the coming

36:54 of the kingdom of David." So all of a sudden,

36:57 I'm going to myself, what's the analogy here?

37:00 And you look it up.

37:01 You look at the story of David and Goliath.

37:04 David approaches from the east.

37:06 Goliath approaches from the west.

37:08 And you have suddenly you realize this is David and Goliath.

37:12 This is Come on, preacher.

37:13 This is David.

37:14 This is exactly what this is.

37:15 Now, here's what's interesting is that if you really

37:17 understand the text of David and the and Goliath,

37:20 what most people do with that with that story is

37:23 they misread it thinking it's a story about an underdog.

37:26 That ain't no story about an underdog.

37:27 That is a story about visual deception.

37:30 And if you really pay attention to what's

37:32 happening in 1 Samuel with David and Goliath,

37:34 you would know that David is never in doubt as the winner.

37:39 As a matter of fact,

37:40 all of the things that are listed as the characteristics that make

37:43 Goliath strong and scary and terrible are all the things that weaken him,

37:47 make him immobile and a completely unworthy opponent.

37:51 Jesus has got this in the bag from day one.

37:54 And you are watching and just highlighted so

37:56 much in this film is you are watching Jesus

37:59 get brutally murdered and yet the believer knows

38:03 he has more power than any one of you.

38:08 and you are just like I you just kind

38:10 of have to hold that and know that it's coming.

38:14 You know what I mean?

38:14 And so I just saw that for the first time

38:16 was this sort of David and Goliath narrative of like,

38:19 oh man, you you've already got the victory in hand and it doesn't look like it.

38:24 Nobody thinks this is the case,

38:26 but we are deceived by the images that are in front of us.

38:30 And that's not that's not how God works.

38:32 That's not what he's looking at.

38:33 And what brings it together is the conversation Jesus

38:35 has with Pilate where he says to him, "Hey, if you just say the word,

38:38 I can let you go." And Jesus said, "No one takes my life.

38:41 I lay it down.

38:42 No one takes it." That's unbelievable.

38:45 That's my savior.

38:46 And I'm just Yeah.

38:49 Yeah.

38:49 Thanks for sharing that, Ben.

38:50 That's that is a very amazing connection to to make

38:54 for us because that that in of itself,

38:56 again, if you never watch The Passion, you're good.

38:59 But if I I do want to encourage you this at the time of this viewing,

39:03 which I'm assuming is probably Good Friday

39:04 for a majority of people or later, that's fine.

39:08 Spend some time reading the passion narrative, right?

39:12 Reading that specific portion and just sit with it and allow what comes

39:18 up to come up and just submit to to to to the Lord.

39:22 and and I and I pray that you would just be encouraged in knowing that yeah,

39:27 this is the depths of what your savior went went through for you,

39:32 but he's coming again in power, in all authority,

39:36 in glory, ransoming us to himself once and for all.

39:40 And what an incredible, you know,

39:42 in in other churches they say the great getting up.

39:45 And what an amazing day the what an amazing day that is going to be.

39:50 But I believe that the gift of the Holy

39:52 Spirit is that we get to experience resurrection power today.

39:55 And um so my prayer for each and every one of you

39:58 is that Christ would dwell in your hearts all the way through.

40:01 And uh so thank you guys so much

40:03 for tuning into the AC podcast on this Good Friday.

40:07 Um I'm going to leave it.

40:08 I'm going to leave it there.

40:10 You know what he has commissioned us to do.

40:11 You know what he has called us to do.

40:13 So thanks be to God.

40:20 FOR THE LOVE OF GOD LOVES PEOPLE.