Understand How Your Past Affects Your Behavior | Dr. Paul Conti & Dr. Andrew Huberman

0:00 I can imagine that there are instances where people

0:02 are in patterns of behavior and they're struggling with them.

0:06 They're not working for them and they know it and they want to make the change.

0:10 This is this is the thing I hear all the time.

0:12 I want to make I know I should do it.

0:13 I know I should do it but they don't do it.

0:17 What you're saying is when they when we can know that that pattern

0:22 was something we observed or we're doing the opposite of something we observed,

0:26 doesn't matter which.

0:29 Suddenly we have agency.

0:31 What do you think that is?

0:32 This is this is a different kind of question than I've been asking up until now.

0:36 Like what is that?

0:37 Because my clinician can tell me, hey, you know what?

0:41 You should really start to eat better and get to sleep

0:44 on time because we both know this isn't serving you well.

0:48 And the person comes back and they're not doing the behaviors.

0:51 They're not changing their behaviors.

0:52 They're not chang.

0:55 And you get to a place where it reflects something in childhood.

0:58 They're either going against or they're going with that pattern.

1:03 You're telling me that that realization gives them a sense of agency.

1:08 Aha.

1:09 It's it's comes from me, but I didn't program that in like what is the insight?

1:15 Like what allows that?

1:16 What is the wedge that lets people

1:18 change their behavior simply by understanding that

1:22 some or all of it is inherited from a pattern?

1:25 When we realize that there's something whether

1:28 it's external or internal controlling us, right?

1:31 It it diffuses that tension and part of why it diffuses the tension

1:36 and and lets us see clearly and gives us control is because we don't like it.

1:40 You know, none of us want to be like in the the manurion candidate, right,

1:44 where there's a sound and then we behave in a certain way and, you know,

1:47 we're triggered in a certain way and then

1:49 we just do something and we do it automatically.

1:51 Like we don't like that.

1:53 And and if we realize, oh, that's happening in me.

1:56 So if I realize, gosh, I've been programmed, right?

1:59 And and if someone is disagreeing with me,

2:03 like it makes me feel so bad or so vulnerable or insecure,

2:06 you know, it makes me feel like I felt when I was a kid, right?

2:10 So now what I'm doing is I'm being just like the parent was.

2:13 I'm not giving my child a chance to have his or her own opinion.

2:17 And now because I won't let myself tolerate that feeling.

2:20 So, so what's happened is it's just been automatic

2:24 from when I was a kid and it felt so bad

2:26 and now I'm in the position of trying to make

2:28 myself feel good by imposing that on my own child.

2:30 I don't want to do that, right?

2:32 Wow.

2:32 I I see that or or realizing that because that happened and and I

2:37 wasn't allowed to have my own say when I was growing up.

2:40 I'm I'm letting my children kind of run

2:42 wild in ways that aren't even safe for them.

2:45 And and and wow, like I I I pushed so hard against that, right?

2:49 It's this realization that that something inside of us is is being triggered

2:53 and then we just do something automatically

2:55 that we haven't thought about or decided to.

2:57 Right?

2:57 That is a very very strong uh effect on humans.

3:01 We really don't like that.

3:03 So if we can combine that with with compassionate

3:06 curiosity like if if one of us were really

3:08 really really hungry and there's food right outside

3:10 the door but we're not getting up to get it,

3:13 it's a reasonable question to ask why, right?

3:15 Right?

3:15 I mean, it's got to be something very powerful to keep

3:18 a person who's so hungry from just going and getting food.

3:21 What are these forces within us that are exerting such control over us?

3:25 Now, we get the person to be on their own side instead of saying,

3:28 "I want to do A, B, and C,

3:30 but I just can't or there's just not enough time." They're like, "Whoa,

3:32 that's not, you know, I telling myself, do I really want to do it?

3:37 If I do, what's keeping me from doing it?

3:39 How am I keeping me from doing it?" Now we bring our gumption, you know,

3:43 we bring our our our resources internally and externally

3:46 to the problem and and the whole thing shifts.

3:49 [snorts] Oh man, that helps a lot.

3:56 Not just me, I have to say people not feeling motivated,

4:01 people not being able to break a pattern that isn't serving them,

4:04 whether or not it's action or inaction

4:07 is probably the most common question I get.

4:09 is the most common theme.

4:11 It's probably the reason why podcasts like this can exist.

4:14 I mean, I think people have an natural curiosity

4:16 about the science and the intellectual aspects and you know,

4:19 neural circuits and hormones and all that kind of stuff,

4:21 but I think ultimately people want more agency over their behavior.

4:25 They want to feel that.

4:29 Yes.

4:27 And I think what you said is is like blaring in the room,

4:32 at least for me, that people don't like to be controlled.

4:37 So much so that we know that uh we got kids

4:39 to quit smoking u back in the you know in the 90s early

4:44 2000s by advertisements of um rich old white men writhing their hands

4:51 cackling about the health problems that people

4:53 are getting while they're getting rich.

4:54 That's what stopped teens from smoking.

4:57 Right?

4:58 It was you're not going to control me.

4:59 It wasn't that they didn't like smoking.

5:01 Nicotine is incredibly reinforcing.

5:02 Right?

5:03 The moment that you have an enemy,

5:05 you feel the sense of agency that you you said no, you're on your own side.

5:10 So realizing one is being controlled, right,

5:13 is I realize I'm just saying what you're saying,

5:14 but I want to make sure this really resonates in my own mind.

5:17 And for the listeners, that's the essence of of agency.

5:22 You have to be on your own side.

5:23 and to get on your own side.

5:24 It's helpful to not necessarily have an enemy, but to say,

5:27 "Oh, this was this is all about my parents,

5:30 and I'm going in the opposite direction in ways that are defeating me.

5:33 I'm they're controlling me even though I think I'm controlling me." Boom.

5:38 Right.

5:39 Right.

5:38 Behavior changes.

5:39 Or, oh this is just like my mom or just like my dad or just like the environment

5:45 I grew up in and now you somebody can advocate for themselves.

5:51 Yes.

5:50 I also see this in the in the media nowadays.

5:52 I mean that so much of social media is about us them and gosh people

5:57 are like perfectly happy for understandable reasons

6:00 to be like you're not going to control me.

6:02 We saw this during the pandemic.

6:03 We see we see this at every level.

6:05 What is this human thing about not wanting

6:08 to be controlled that in this context is very positive, right?

6:15 Yeah.

6:14 We there's something about the human primate brain.

6:18 Yeah.

6:18 Yeah.

6:19 Like we we don't like to be controlled

6:21 and that sense of agency can can blossom out of that.

6:26 Yeah.

6:25 I think that's incredible.

6:27 Yeah.

6:27 We don't want to think or know that that someone

6:30 or something is putting one over on us.

6:33 Like you know, humans don't want to be dupes.

6:35 We don't we don't like that, right?

6:36 It makes us upset.

6:38 And here the magic realization is that there is no enemy, right?

6:42 That that we can get in our own way.

6:45 and who's most likely to thwart my efforts towards being healthier.

6:48 It's absolutely me, right?

6:50 So, I can get in my own way, but it doesn't mean I'm my enemy.

6:54 So, if I if I do really I want to be

6:57 healthier and I want to get to the gym to be healthier.

7:00 Okay, who's standing in my way then?

7:02 It will be me that say, well, why am I standing in my way?

7:05 I secretly hate myself and I want myself not to be healthy.

7:08 No, it's it's not that.

7:09 If I'm standing in my own way, there's a reason.

7:12 I really think that that I have so much to do

7:16 and and and it's for other people and it means more than me.

7:20 So really, I don't think I deserve the time and energy it would it would take.

7:23 I'm not going to spend it on myself.

7:25 Maybe that's why I don't go.

7:27 Or maybe I don't go because I'm trying to protect myself, right?

7:30 Because I'm worried.

7:31 The last couple times I tried it didn't go well and I felt worse.

7:34 So I don't even want to start.

7:35 So I'm standing in my own way because of fear of failure.

7:38 Right?

7:38 There's a lot of reasons.

7:39 There's many, many, many reasons we could be standing in our own way,

7:43 but we're not our own enemy.

7:45 So, the realization of like, why am I doing this?

7:47 I don't have to do this.

7:48 Actually, there's one me and I could say, well,

7:51 if I both if I really want to go to the gym, but I'm not going.

7:54 I want to go and I don't want to go.

7:57 It must be true or I'd be there, right?

7:59 Why is it that I don't want to go?

8:01 Am I not worth the time and energy?

8:03 Maybe.

8:04 Do I think there are more important things to do?

8:06 Really, I do really think that, right?

8:07 Right?

8:08 And I'm not admitting it to myself.

8:09 Uh am I afraid that if I try, I'll fail?

8:12 Right?

8:12 There's got to be a reason for that.

8:13 So, let me get on the same page.

8:15 As I've often said to to to just further the example would be, hey,

8:19 you get to decide if you if if you go to the gym or not.

8:22 We just want you to be on the same page with yourself.

8:24 Like, you can decide not to if you say, actually,

8:26 there are more there things that are bigger uh priorities for my time now.

8:31 Someone else is sick.

8:32 I'm taking care of that person.

8:33 It really that is what I'm choosing now.

8:35 Okay.

8:35 So, I'm not going to go now.

8:36 and the whole me decides that.

8:38 But on the other side of this, when this drain on time,

8:40 my time and energy is different, then I am going to go.

8:43 Right now, the person's on the same page and they're not

8:46 making themselves feel worse by wanting to go and not going.

8:49 Or I might say, I really do want to go,

8:51 but I know I'm standing in my own way because I'm afraid I'll fail.

8:54 Okay?

8:54 And then maybe I get upset, the last eight times I tried, I failed, right?

8:58 You know, now we're we're really digging, you know, where the money's at, right?

9:01 Because we go and look and say, "Okay, you're you're protecting yourself.

9:04 How do we how do we try and set you up for success?

9:07 So, so you'll want to go forward

9:09 this time because you'll see that it's different

9:11 from the other times and you won't just

9:13 be repeating something that just made you feel bad.

9:15 So, that's how we get our all our arrows pointing in the same direction.

9:18 We realize there is no enemy here.

9:20 There is me standing in my own way, but like that's okay.

9:23 I I can look at that and I can figure that out.

9:25 And now we're at that simple goodness principle where, you know,

9:28 we're all on the same page with ourselves and we accomplish our goals.

9:36 [music]