What women’s sports reveals about building future leaders: Deloitte’s Lara Abrash

0:00 We're the precipice of things that hold people back.

0:03 I think we're just about to overcome it.

0:05 Welcome to Meet the Leader, the podcast where top leaders share

0:09 how they're tackling the world's toughest challenges.

0:11 Today's episode, we dig into an unsung strategy

0:15 to bridge gender gaps and drive economic growth.

0:18 Women's sports.

0:19 Subscribe to Meet the Leader on Apple,

0:21 Spotify, and wherever you get your favorite podcasts.

0:25 And don't forget to rate and review us.

0:28 I'm Linda Lacina from the World Economic Forum.

0:32 And this is Meet the Leader.

0:33 85% of women who are in executive positions talk about the lessons

0:38 they learn from sports as being major drivers to why they're so successful.

0:43 We all know that sports is big business,

0:46 but you might not realize that it comprises 2% of global GDP.

0:50 And then it's poised to more than double by 2030,

0:54 becoming an 8.8 trillion dollar market by 2050.

0:58 That makes it a multiplier for change.

1:01 As our Sports for People and Planet report points out,

1:04 that growth will be an engine for tourism,

1:07 for city development, for infrastructure,

1:09 and can even help tackle health and obesity.

1:12 To help drive that growth, we can't overlook women's sports.

1:17 While some projections have that market tripling in the short term,

1:20 Lara Abrash will remind us that the opportunity is

1:23 bigger than just a single match or a single game.

1:26 Support for women's sports helps develop leadership and cooperation.

1:31 And that's critical for bridging the gender

1:32 gap and women's longevity in their careers.

1:36 Lara, the chair of Deloitte US,

1:38 Deloitte being one of the largest professional services firms in the world,

1:42 will share why investing in women's sports makes economic sense.

1:46 But she'll also share her personal journey with sport

1:49 and how it shaped her as a leader and team member.

1:52 And what anyone can learn.

1:54 Well, we're definitely in a moment when it comes to women's sports.

1:57 For several years, we've been talking about this emergence of women's sports,

2:01 but we are now going from nearly two and a half billion

2:04 dollars of global revenue to ultimately over three billion dollars in '26.

2:10 And each and every year, we're seeing double-digit growth.

2:13 And for me as a business person, I've been doing business for over 30 years,

2:17 when you see momentum of each year double-digit growth,

2:21 we're now scaled into a moment of being able to try to scale this even

2:25 greater into hopefully a place where we're starting

2:28 to near what men's sports have looked like,

2:31 which also took decades and decades to get

2:33 many of these sports to where they are today.

2:35 And there's still amazingly an investment gap.

2:37 Can you tell us a little bit about that?

2:40 What is it and and why does it exist?

2:42 Yeah, there's a really big gap when it comes to women's sports.

2:45 Ultimately, a lot of organizations are not necessarily seeing

2:49 the ROI in the way they've necessarily saw men's sports.

2:52 So, the investment dollars are not going

2:54 in in the way you've historically seen in men's sports.

2:57 And even though there's a huge excitement and interest in women's sports,

3:00 we're not seeing the dollars necessarily follow through.

3:04 We ultimately are seeing the ROI lagging because ROI does come from, you know,

3:10 how many eyes are on the screen.

3:12 And when we're not getting displayed at the same level as men's sports,

3:15 you're not going to see the ROI,

3:17 but the reality is we now need to think about ROI differently

3:20 when it comes to women's sports cuz the interest is incredibly high.

3:24 The merchandising opportunities are incredibly high.

3:28 The engagement with the leaders,

3:29 the the athletes themselves, very different from men's sports.

3:33 There's a huge interest in women as influencers,

3:38 as, you know, icons, people that go beyond the field.

3:41 They want to hear about their stories, the engagement in social media.

3:45 So, we have to think about this ROI greater,

3:47 but ultimately, there's huge opportunity,

3:50 huge opportunity for return on investment to get in now,

3:54 to be part of the future.

3:55 It's not just the right thing to do, it truly is an investment opportunity.

3:59 There were some statistics I found.

4:00 Women's sports get just 10% of the sponsorship dollars,

4:04 15% of the media coverage.

4:06 Of course, just a fraction of uh things

4:07 like broadcast right fees and things like that.

4:09 What is holding uh people back?

4:11 But what are they saying anyway?

4:13 Well, they're saying that again that they're not necessarily seeing

4:16 the the same type of return on investment that they see,

4:18 but it ultimately comes this vicious cycle.

4:21 If you don't display the sports on the TV to get the advertising dollars,

4:26 to get the viewership eyes,

4:27 you're not going to actually see the ROI come in that way.

4:30 So, we have to start putting in more money to get them displayed.

4:35 Ultimately, that's what's going to lead to the path.

4:37 It requires people seeing this interest, and we're really there.

4:40 We are truly there right now that investment should be going

4:43 in, and you will start to see us get over that hump.

4:46 So, it's about getting viewership rates and people

4:48 seeing the broader KPIs that come from women's sports.

4:52 As you've been digging into this topic, what has surprised you?

4:55 Where where have you been like, "Oh gosh." What's taking you back?

4:58 Well, what surprises me most about the data I'm seeing is ultimately,

5:04 I think about women's sports in three life cycle elements.

5:07 There's the entrance into the sport,

5:09 so girls coming in and then staying in sport,

5:12 becoming professionals and ultimately really burgeoning the the opportunities,

5:16 and then leaving sport into leadership.

5:19 When we talk about the entry into sport,

5:21 one of the things that surprised me is how hard

5:24 it is for girls to want to stay in women's sports.

5:28 45% of girls do not stay in sport.

5:32 They leave because of body confidence issues.

5:35 And when you look at that data and you

5:37 think about girls coming from economic households that are lower,

5:42 it's six times even more.

5:43 The opportunities for girls to participate in sport

5:46 is 1.3 million times fewer than men's sports.

5:50 So, this ability for girls to just get started

5:53 and stay is so much lower and there's so many barriers.

5:57 There's the physical views about it, the mental views about it,

6:01 the cultural norms about, you know, girls playing sports.

6:05 And if they're not going to even get into it and stay with it,

6:08 then the opportunities to be a professional and the opportunities

6:11 to take sport into life just becomes even harder.

6:15 I read Deloitte had done its own survey that found a connection

6:19 between uh women leaders and sort of a background in in sports.

6:22 So, it prepares them for teamwork, but also to sort of drive things.

6:26 What do you think about that?

6:27 Of course, we have the saying at the firm, girls who play become women who lead.

6:31 And we have data behind it.

6:33 Our survey has told us that 85% of women who are in executive positions talk

6:39 about the lessons they learned from sports

6:41 as being major drivers to why they're so successful.

6:45 Over 90% of them would say that they're

6:47 in an even higher level because of sport.

6:50 And I myself have had that benefit and I see that with our clients, our peers.

6:55 It's in government, it's in business, it's in almost every facet of life.

6:58 The more girl can play a sport, the more she's going to gain some

7:03 of these lessons that will help her later in life.

7:06 How about just keeping girls in sports?

7:08 We can start there.

7:08 What's needed to fix that?

7:10 Oh, so many things.

7:11 So, for a girl to want to be staying in sports,

7:13 it's the cultural norms, it's the role modeling.

7:17 One really interesting data point is over the last 40 years,

7:21 50 years, we've actually seen a decline in the number of women coaches.

7:26 So, back in 1972, we had a huge number of women coaching.

7:30 Now, only 40% of coaches are women.

7:33 And when you think about the confidence to actually want to be a player,

7:38 you want to look up and look at role models that look like you,

7:41 that make you feel more comfortable.

7:43 So, the lack of women coaching is is one element.

7:46 The other element, I talked earlier about the cultural norms.

7:50 We need to encourage these girls to want to stay.

7:53 We need to encourage them to understand that it's okay for a woman

7:57 to have a different body size to be successful in sport.

8:00 But, these body image things are starting to be a reason to hold them back.

8:03 So, it's the cultural norms, it's the the coaching,

8:06 the role modeling that will start to settle

8:09 hopefully girls wanting to enter and stay.

8:12 And what about elsewhere within professional sports?

8:15 Are there certain strategic investments that we need to be making?

8:18 Maybe either to to the pipeline or also

8:21 to be be the structure of some of these organizations,

8:23 these affiliate organizations and things like that.

8:25 What strategic investment should we be thinking about first?

8:28 Well, we need to invest in into the leagues,

8:30 we need to be investing into the teams so that they

8:32 could start to pay uh their athletes at the right levels.

8:36 Really interesting data point we found that over three-quarters

8:40 of the women who play sports professionally make less than $50,000 US.

8:46 I mean, that is not going to allow somebody to raise a family,

8:49 to to live their life.

8:51 So, ultimately, we have to invest into these organizations

8:54 so that they could pay the athletes.

8:56 The more they do that, there'll be more interest in girls

8:59 actually wanting to be in sport and stay in sport,

9:02 which ultimately, when they leave sport,

9:04 will help society because we'll have more women leaders.

9:07 What is needed maybe to change the mindset?

9:10 How how does that work?

9:11 So, to change the mindset of who wants to invest into it is as I said earlier,

9:15 it's really having them understand the real return that we'll get,

9:20 the ability to get more viewership,

9:22 to get more women on TV playing sports will create a greater ROI.

9:27 So, we need to be able to to change the awareness, but ultimately,

9:31 that there are other KPIs than just viewership

9:34 as a way to understand how women sports creates an ROI.

9:38 As I said earlier, you actually have an ability to have deeper,

9:42 deeper, deeper engagement with the athletes,

9:45 which creates outsized merchandising opportunities.

9:48 So, when you look at the whole ecosystem of what a women's sport brings,

9:53 it brings much greater ROI than just what you would naturally see for TV ads.

9:57 So, we have to invest in the leagues,

9:59 we have to invest into getting more opportunities for media,

10:03 and more opportunities for viewership.

10:06 I I think it's interesting you mentioned that hey, you know,

10:08 even the NFL had to build to where it is.

10:11 We've seen this growth with other sports.

10:13 We've seen it with soccer.

10:14 Soccer was something that maybe wasn't being watched 20,

10:18 30 years ago like it is today.

10:20 Why do people struggle sometimes to see the potential

10:23 of something to see something that that hasn't existed yet?

10:26 There's a lot of reasons we struggle.

10:28 One reason is ROI, you know, there's limited capital.

10:32 So, when organizations are thinking about where to put their dollars down,

10:36 they can invest back in their employees, they can invest in technology, AI.

10:39 This idea of investing in branding and investing into the opportunities

10:45 to get an ROI through women's sports is something different.

10:48 And there's a natural cultural norm to have this hesitation.

10:51 Is this going to generate it and it requires, quite frankly, pioneers.

10:55 You mentioned the women's soccer,

10:57 huge pioneers to actually get that to, you know,

11:00 to get the championship game on at night.

11:02 It was a Herculean effort to do that, but ultimately

11:05 the the response by the viewers was overwhelming.

11:08 The you know, women's soccer actually

11:10 gets greater viewership than men's soccer does.

11:13 But ultimately was not getting the same opportunities.

11:16 So, it takes real pioneers.

11:17 Billie Jean King did it for tennis.

11:19 She actually continues to do it today for a lot of these other teams.

11:23 Now, you're starting to see investors invest in new sports.

11:27 We now have a women's hockey league, we have women's baseball.

11:31 You're starting to see this expansion.

11:33 I actually think we're at the precipice

11:35 of some of the things that hold people back.

11:38 I think we're just about to overcome it.

11:40 Is there a change story that you can kind

11:42 of point to that really shows that before and after where

11:44 there was an investment and it really paid off and it

11:47 showed kind of the direction we could be going in?

11:49 Well, if I think about where we are in 2025 and going into 2026,

11:54 one of the things I think about is I took the Olympics as a start.

11:58 The Olympics for the first time ever had gender parity where

12:02 you had the same number of women athletes as men athletes.

12:05 And for the first time, we had a women's rugby story.

12:08 And because of some of the athletes themselves,

12:10 that the excitement and the interest

12:12 now in women's rugby has changed significantly

12:16 just from the Olympics having parity to just an amazing year of women's rugby.

12:21 And now there's an interest in that sport

12:23 outside of the Olympics in a much greater way.

12:25 That's an example of that dynamic of the athletes

12:29 themselves and the attention they can bring.

12:31 They're influencers.

12:33 They're on social media.

12:34 They're doing podcasts.

12:35 And the interest in their stories is so

12:37 much greater as is their interest in the sport.

12:40 If we get this right, like if we get women's sports investment right,

12:43 what does the world look like in in say 20 years?

12:46 What could we expect to see?

12:48 If we get women's sports right, the investment at right,

12:51 I think there's two or three things that will happen.

12:53 One, I believe to start cuz this is the most important

12:56 thing that actually will generate real business and money for society,

13:01 for business leaders.

13:01 This is not something we're doing cuz it's a nice

13:04 thing to do or the right thing to do.

13:06 We're actually doing it because it actually will create great outsized ROI.

13:09 That's one.

13:10 Two, I believe we will have even greater women leaders in the future

13:15 because the more women we have in sport exiting sport into executive roles,

13:21 business roles, you name it, we're going to have more.

13:24 And the thing that excites me the most,

13:27 is the girls themselves will look up and they'll say they did it.

13:31 So, I think in 20-30 years it won't be a question

13:35 about body image and do I have a woman coach?

13:37 I just want to play.

13:38 I think we'll have a huge ROI and then ultimately

13:41 leaders will be coming out in droves because they played sport.

13:45 We'll have not just a greater number of women leaders,

13:48 but whether they're sitting in CEO seats,

13:50 board chair seats, senior roles in the government,

13:54 they'll be more women that could be positioned to take on these roles

13:57 and if they leverage the skills they

13:59 build from playing sports for all those years,

14:02 they're going to be better positioned to be successful in those roles.

14:05 I want to talk a little bit about sort of what drives you and then

14:07 inspires you and then maybe the role that sports has played in your life.

14:11 You were the only girl on your a baseball team as a child?

14:14 Yes.

14:15 Uh when I started to play sports, I have three older brothers.

14:18 So, my mom of course as the fourth was like, okay,

14:21 you've got to go play sports also and there was no softball team in my town.

14:25 There was no girls baseball team.

14:27 So, when I grew up, the only way to play sport,

14:29 to play baseball, is to actually be on the boys baseball team.

14:32 So, yeah, I was the only girl on the boys baseball

14:34 team and that's how I started and that's all I knew.

14:37 I I joke that I played the position left out,

14:40 but ultimately it was a great experience and that was normal back then.

14:43 Today that's not as normal, but back then that's just the way it was.

14:46 How does that prepare you?

14:48 Yeah, sports has been huge for me.

14:50 I could talk all day about the things I learned.

14:52 I'll pick a few things.

14:53 One, I often talk about grit.

14:56 Grit is the part of your elbow that's rough

14:59 that you you get over time from falling and hitting things.

15:03 That's what grit is and grit ultimately is the thing that shows up when things

15:07 aren't going well and powers you through

15:09 the really tough moments and if you played

15:11 sports and being on a losing team and those hard days of practice when things

15:16 don't go right or when you show up and the team doesn't pull it all together,

15:21 you lose and that you're just building that grit on you.

15:25 And that's something that I benefited from.

15:27 I played baseball, I played tennis,

15:29 I played basketball, a lot of different sports.

15:32 And ultimately, all those experiences helped me

15:35 in a ways that I sometimes don't even think about.

15:37 Another area that sports has been great for me has been the the knowledge

15:42 that it's okay to not be the best person on the team.

15:45 Ultimately, it's about bringing the team together.

15:49 And as a leader in business, you're not necessarily there cuz you're

15:53 the best person at whatever your company does.

15:56 You're the best person who can tap into what every person can bring,

16:01 the best version of themselves.

16:03 And that's what a team is.

16:03 That's what a whatever sports team you play on, it's about bringing that person

16:08 into play their position in a certain way and to contribute to the team.

16:12 And there's so many other things, communication, teamwork, and the like.

16:16 All of that comes and it builds a girl's confidence.

16:19 And when confidence gets built, you don't have to have someone in the back

16:23 of your head telling you how great you are.

16:25 You start to realize I can do this.

16:27 And when you get to those hard days at work, you have that confidence with you.

16:31 There's a thing when you're working together on the field

16:34 where you learn that you can solve problems together.

16:37 We don't need anyone to be a superwoman.

16:39 Why is that shift?

16:40 How do sports help women sort of overcome the superwoman fallacy?

16:45 Yeah, so as you probably know, for years for women in business,

16:49 there's this been this idea that you have to be the superwoman.

16:51 You have to be the person you could do everything.

16:54 And quite frankly, you've had a lot of people fearing that women

16:57 will go cry if they don't get what they want at work.

17:01 And so they have to put on this veneer

17:02 that they don't that they have all the answers.

17:05 And what sports teaches everybody is it ultimately does take a team.

17:09 It it's a mosaic.

17:10 It's people of different colors and shapes

17:13 and sizes coming together to solve of issue.

17:15 And it's helped women realize that they

17:17 don't have to declare that they know everything.

17:19 It actually does in fact take a village.

17:21 And so, the woman who could actually bring the team together,

17:24 and I would argue that's actually one of the superpowers

17:28 that many women have is the ability to nurture and engage

17:32 others to figure out how do I get the best out

17:34 of this person on this particular day and this particular moment.

17:38 That's what women do.

17:39 And and when they start to realize that that is the power that they can unleash,

17:43 it's not about them being the subordinate but ultimately them leading.

17:47 I have another saying which is managers manage outcome, leaders lead people.

17:51 And that's ultimately what sports teaches you to do.

17:54 It teaches you to lead people.

17:56 Being a a teammate to someone and helping

17:59 them be their best version and being selfless,

18:01 giving them the ball, having them take the shot and kick the goal,

18:05 that's ultimately what leaders end up doing.

18:08 They are not the best person in the organization.

18:10 They're the person who could untap everybody around them.

18:13 Is there a lesson maybe from a coach

18:15 or maybe from sports in general that uh shaped you?

18:18 Yeah, probably one of the best lessons I ever

18:20 got from a coach was there's never enough practice.

18:25 You cannot know what life is going to put in front of you.

18:28 I used to have a coach who would take me out, Coach Catalano.

18:31 He would take me out after school,

18:34 and whenever all the girls left the field we would continue.

18:37 I played center field at that time,

18:38 and we would continue to just flag fly balls.

18:41 And then in a game, I found myself doing something

18:45 that we had covered that we may not have gotten to.

18:49 And it was like this idea that practice does in fact make perfection.

18:53 And so, you are constantly pushing yourself.

18:57 This coach told me, "When you actually get

18:59 to a point that you think you're trying to be perfect,

19:02 you haven't actually pushed yourself enough." So,

19:03 this idea of practice does make perfection is something this coach taught me,

19:07 and he he made me live it.

19:09 And to this day, I try to practice things inside and outside

19:13 of work just for that moment when it may come up.

19:16 Was there a maybe a moment when you were playing sports that maybe

19:20 helps you even today either as a leader or even as a teammate?

19:23 Is there something that's like, "Gosh, you still use that now?" Well,

19:26 definitely when I was in sports,

19:28 I was the person who tried to cheer everybody up.

19:31 I'm still I I play on a team today.

19:33 I actually play on an over 25 women's softball team.

19:36 I I joke it's way over 25.

19:39 And on that team, I'm the manager despite my big job at work because I'm

19:44 the person who really does try to encourage

19:46 and support and excite everybody around us.

19:49 And I think for me, it started to make me realize that one,

19:53 I had a natural talent in getting people around

19:57 me to want to perform and to push themselves.

20:01 And it ultimately taught me that I was

20:03 more valuable doing that than being the center fielder.

20:07 And that's what I try to bring to work today that you know,

20:10 me being the best accountant or consultant is not why I'm here.

20:13 I'm ultimately here because I can get the people around me

20:16 excited and maybe to push themselves in ways that they didn't think.

20:19 And that ultimately really did come from the softball field and still does.

20:23 Are there things that we can learn from athletes about effective teaming,

20:27 especially maybe women who didn't have the chance to play sports?

20:31 Like what are questions they could ask,

20:32 things they should look for to be even better at teaming?

20:35 Yeah, I think from a teaming perspective, women really could help each other.

20:39 I think we're a superpower when we come together.

20:42 I do find in business sometimes women are again thinking

20:46 they have to be the the person who knows everything, show no vulnerability.

20:51 And ultimately, I'm seeing today women who

20:54 show more vulnerability and are more open

20:56 to helping each other and being helped and being open that they need help.

21:00 They start to create better teams around them.

21:03 And I think that's something that if you hadn't played sports,

21:06 you're going to have to realize through

21:08 experience that it is in fact helping you, but it's not a natural thing.

21:12 I still find a bit that there is a little bit of competition among women,

21:16 and it really is a a village.

21:18 When the team succeeds, the person succeeds.

21:21 Yeah.

21:21 Is there a book you recommend?

21:23 Oh, uh probably All In by Billie Jean King.

21:26 I think she's amazing.

21:27 How did it change you?

21:29 Well, she changes me because she just is

21:31 so inspiring as an athlete and as a leader.

21:34 She makes me want to rise to the biggest moments and realize

21:38 that I have an ability to pay it forward and give back,

21:43 and you have to in fact be all in.

21:45 You have to give everything to do it,

21:47 and incrementalism is only going to get you so far.

21:50 So, she ultimately has pushed me to be more

21:53 about giving all of me and not piece of me,

21:55 and if I give all of me, bigger things could happen.

21:59 What should leaders be prioritizing in 2026?

22:02 I think leaders should be thinking about, particularly in women's sports,

22:05 that this is the time right now to find opportunities to invest into the sport.

22:11 Go back to our organizations and look at our marketing dollars,

22:15 our social purpose dollars that we're spending,

22:18 and look at opportunities to get women into investing into sports,

22:22 and then look at your own organization and start to say,

22:26 where are my next set of generation of women leaders,

22:30 and am I tapping into the athletes

22:33 in my organization and the skills that they've learned,

22:35 and how do I start to harness that?

22:37 So, I think there's great opportunity to be

22:40 the the engine to invest right now into women's sports,

22:43 to engage into it, and then ultimately to harness

22:47 what is inside your own organization relative to women's leadership.

22:51 That was Laura A.

22:52 Abrahams.

22:53 Thanks so much to her.

22:54 And thanks so much to you for listening.

22:56 If there's someone in your life looking

22:58 to learn more about teaming and cooperation, send them this episode.

23:02 Find a transcript of this episode, as well as transcripts from my colleague's

23:05 podcast Radio Davos at wef.ch/podcasts.

23:10 To find our recent Sports for People and Planet report,

23:13 go to the show notes of this episode.

23:14 We'll make sure to have a link.

23:16 This episode of Meet the Leader was produced and presented

23:19 by me with Jerry Johansson and Taz Kelleher as editor.

23:22 Juan Toran is studio engineer in Davos

23:25 and Gareth Dolan driving studio production.

23:28 That's it for now.

23:29 I'm Linda Lacina from the World Economic Forum.

23:33 Have a great day.