No. 1 Software Founder: “AI Will Replace 80% of Business In 5 Years”

0:00 How old were you when you started at you said 16?

0:01 Yeah, started out when I was 16.

0:03 I was making about 40 to 50,000 dollars a month.

0:06 I realized [music] that look I can't disappoint my parents.

0:08 I was going to get kicked out of school.

0:09 I had like a 1.3 GPA.

0:12 So I sold it when I was 19.

0:13 How much did you sell it for?

0:14 I sold it for Where did the idea start for Go HighLevel in the first place?

0:18 What's funny is I had a customer reach out to me saying

0:21 hey I just met these two guys and it happened to be

0:23 Shawn Clark and Varun Revanna my now two co-founders and they

0:27 had built up basically the first version of what HighLevel is today.

0:30 struggling and then now we're serving

0:31 over a million businesses around the world.

0:33 Meet Robin Alex.

0:34 He is a tech entrepreneur and the co-founder of HighLevel a marketing

0:37 platform provider bringing expertise in business

0:40 growth strategies and technology solutions.

0:42 HighLevel what ballpark of revenue?

0:44 Mid to high multi non-figures well over a billion

0:47 dollars in valuation and just continuing to grow.

0:49 You guys built it without a sales team.

0:50 Yeah, we still don't have a sales team today.

0:52 That's freaking incredible.

0:53 Can you give the audience a little bit of context as to what Go HighLevel is?

0:56 We're all-in-one AI operating system.

0:58 We have all the different tools that's out there to operate your business.

1:00 Really helping businesses at the top of the funnel.

1:02 Do you have 2,000 employees and remotely?

1:04 How are you guys able to build a culture that was so tight like that?

1:07 I had no conscious exposure of what I'm doing and what the end outcome was.

1:11 We rolled it out to these group of customers at the end of 2018

1:14 or asking for other product and features but we were at literally making

1:17 up things because I've always been a person to just say yes and you'll

1:19 figure it out later and then hit a thousand customers the first year.

1:22 That was kind of the aha moment of like

1:24 oh we actually have a business that's actually doing something.

1:26 What's one of the biggest mistakes you guys made early on?

1:29 There's been so many things that one of them was we wanted

1:31 to change and that was the worst move that we ever did.

1:45 Thank you so much for being on the show today Robin.

1:46 Thank you for having me.

1:47 Absolutely man.

1:48 So we're excited to tell your story because I know you

1:51 guys built this software company that's been on a rocket ship.

1:54 You guys came out of nowhere and have been explosive in your growth

1:56 but before we get into the story of the software can you

1:59 give the audience a little bit of context as to what Go HighLevel

2:01 is and then we'll get into a little bit of your back story?

2:03 Yeah.

2:04 So today you know we're all-in-one AI SMB

2:07 operating system really all the tools that you

2:09 need to operate your business from capture

2:11 nurture close to advocate and engage with customers.

2:15 We have all the different tools that's out there.

2:17 Um you know the way that we started

2:19 was just taking all the different point solutions

2:21 that businesses needed and put it all into one

2:24 place because at the end of the day

2:26 you don't you know it used to be that you needed the best of all

2:28 the different products but now everyone's kind of you

2:30 know there's no newness that's coming out there.

2:33 So we just took all of those put it all

2:34 into one application and we sell it for a flat rate.

2:37 Make it easy for businesses to get started and going.

2:39 Yeah, so it's a basically a membership model on the software.

2:41 Yeah.

2:42 Now take me back before you guys started the company you know I

2:44 know there was a lot of different you know software players in the space.

2:48 You guys did a phenomenal job of iterating non-stop.

2:51 Before we talk about that can you talk a little about

2:52 the scale of how many employees maybe even ballpark of revenue just

2:55 high level and whatever level you're comfortable about so people have

2:58 an awareness of just the scale you guys have built this thing too.

3:01 Yeah, so you know coming into the 2026

3:03 you know we're at year eight of the company

3:05 started out with me and my two co-founders

3:08 and then now we're about 2,000 employees worldwide.

3:12 You know revenue wise we're we're you know mid to high you

3:17 know multi non-figures you know so so we're doing pretty well there.

3:22 You know well over you know billion dollars

3:24 in valuation and and just continuing to grow.

3:26 That's incredible.

3:27 Take us back.

3:28 Where did the idea start for Go HighLevel in the first place?

3:31 Yeah, so there's three co-founders and we all have different journeys

3:35 but it all and the way that it came together is really really

3:37 fun but you know my personal story started out you know I've

3:40 always been an entrepreneur and I just enjoyed helping businesses along the way.

3:44 Um but when I started it my online exposure really was starting

3:49 an online game server company so helping you know people who played games.

3:53 So back then it was Counter-Strike Battlefield 1942 having all

3:56 these games you know that me and my friends played.

3:58 Yeah.

3:59 How do I actually take those and create servers for it and I would

4:03 just charge people like hey you know you want to access it's 20 bucks

4:05 a month dollars a month and you know I was when I was you

4:08 know 16 17 years old didn't know you know what I should be doing.

4:11 I just What did you grow up by the way?

4:13 Uh actually born and raised in Dallas.

4:15 Oh very cool.

4:15 So you got into tech and gaming early on or how old were you when that started?

4:18 Yeah, definitely at a early age you know started out

4:21 with the the basic Nintendos you know the Sega Genesis

4:24 and and all that and then just got into PC gaming

4:26 which really kind of got my foray into the digital world.

4:30 Um but yeah you know with the game server company I started doing it

4:33 for friends and then through that I actually got a whole bunch of referrals

4:38 and grew the business to a decent size to where you know we had

4:42 servers in about eight different countries all

4:44 around the world really trying to host it.

4:46 And this was absolute gaming right?

4:48 Yeah, this was absolutely gaming.

4:49 So how old were you when you started at you said 16?

4:51 Yeah, started out when I was 16.

4:52 Where did that entrepreneurial like insight to like charge

4:55 your friends or was it just kind of innocent at first?

4:57 It was definitely innocent right?

4:58 Like it was just a means to an end of let's have

5:00 fun and there's a little bit of cost in putting it all together.

5:03 Um and then from there just more people started asking about it and then

5:06 it was that huh well this is interesting well I'm just going to figure it

5:09 out and you know figured out how to do colocation and working with data centers

5:14 and and really trying to turn it into something that was making money you know

5:18 at the end of the day and then um you know the crazy part about

5:21 it is I I went to you know to university I went to Texas A&M

5:25 and through that journey I was the kid in the dorm room that wasn't going

5:27 to class but running a business and everyone

5:29 thought I was playing video games all the time.

5:31 Yeah.

5:31 But really it was just me trying to figure out how

5:33 to make the servers better you know bringing on new customers.

5:36 And at that point was the vision

5:37 to actually build the business the entrepreneurial thing

5:39 was planted or was it just for you like a project you were tinkering with?

5:42 Like what was your mindset at that?

5:43 You know I probably say there I had no conscious exposure

5:47 of like what I'm doing and what the end outcome was.

5:51 I think it got to a certain size where it was like

5:54 oh no I I it's turning into something real what do I do?

5:56 How much were you making if you don't

5:58 mind me asking at the business at that time?

5:59 You know before I sold it I was making

6:01 about anywhere from 40 to 50,000 dollars a month.

6:05 Wow.

6:05 And it was a lot of revenue coming in and you

6:08 know trying to figure out expenses and you know I

6:10 I I didn't even have like true credit card processing back

6:14 then it was using PayPal and you know tools like that.

6:16 How old were you at this time like 18 19 20?

6:19 Yeah actually about 17 18.

6:21 I I sold it when I was 19.

6:23 And really the the forcing function there of me selling it

6:26 was you know my parents had to come in a Jesus

6:29 meeting with me of like this money's not real you know

6:33 yeah yeah none of this stuff is real like you know you

6:36 have to register the company and you know do sales tax

6:39 and all this sort of stuff and you know we started like

6:42 scrambling I had to work with my parents of like oh

6:43 we got to get all this stuff done taxes and all that.

6:46 Yeah.

6:46 And then it was all about you know I come from a immigrant

6:48 family you know Indian family and they were very much traditional

6:52 traditional go go to school don't worry about running a business and you

6:56 know either you need to be an engineer you need to be

6:58 a doctor you need to be a nurse or you know something

7:00 that or a lawyer just something that's you know very tangible great

7:05 you know salary and things like that but not running a game

7:08 company in your dorm Yeah and you're playing video games all day right?

7:10 Like that's nothing real.

7:12 Um and so that that was really their mindset there.

7:14 What was the business model at that time was it a membership as well or Yeah,

7:17 subscription fee right?

7:18 So you you just pay for access to a server and you know

7:21 we had different tiers depending on how many players you wanted in a server

7:25 and you know just figured out how to do subscriptions on PayPal

7:28 and would people put people on subscriptions

7:30 and you know just compound over time.

7:32 Which is funny cuz now looking back I'm sure you could

7:34 see how the the correlation between that experience years later yeah.

7:37 All these little learning experiences that you know in the moment

7:40 you don't even think of it as a learning experience

7:42 but it definitely built uh character and and operational mindset

7:46 of what we should be looking for because the other piece

7:48 that I learned about it was just having a good reputation

7:50 right and being available that actually translates into more referrals more

7:55 people wanting to to like Man if you have a problem

7:58 reach out to them they will actually take care of you.

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9:18 That is one thing that's amazing cuz I've

9:19 been using Go HighLevel in our business and have

9:21 for years now and I remember we had

9:23 a a big podcast with a controversial figure and I

9:26 remember we had like thousands of leads coming

9:28 in and you know we were able to talk to you and you were like oh talk

9:31 to our guy here you guys custom did the account.

9:34 No what billion dollar company has that kind of feedback loop right where they

9:37 take you know iterative responses to people

9:39 and you guys do that across the board.

9:40 I've heard so many people say you guys are

9:42 doing that there's constantly new developments you know it's not

9:44 a software where you sign up one day and then

9:47 you know 90 days later it's the same thing.

9:48 It's like it gets better and better and you're

9:50 given that value just unbelievable momentum and growth doing that.

9:53 So yeah I think that's awesome.

9:55 Well I appreciate the the kind words.

9:56 I mean I I wouldn't say it's something that we we planned for or predicted.

10:00 It's just our natural MO and really the culture that we built.

10:03 You know, it I always say if somebody has a problem,

10:06 raise your hand and help them.

10:07 Like, well, why wait?

10:08 There is nothing preventing you from helping somebody.

10:11 So, just go out and do it.

10:12 And if somebody doesn't naturally have that skill set,

10:14 they're not built for our team.

10:15 Right.

10:16 And then naturally, if one person has that issue,

10:18 chances are thousands have that same issue or more.

10:20 100% Yeah, when one person says it, 10 other people are thinking it.

10:23 And another 100 people are feeling it.

10:25 And or are about to feel it as well.

10:27 well, yeah.

10:27 Exactly.

10:28 Okay, so you sold the business in '19.

10:30 If you feel comfortable, how much did you sell it for?

10:32 I sold it for $50,000.

10:35 You're making 40,000 a month.

10:36 I sold it for 50.

10:37 And the other part about it that that that stings is

10:40 that the company that I sold it to was a competitor of mine,

10:43 but we were had a great relationship and I just kind of told him like,

10:45 just take this off my hands.

10:47 Um cuz my parents really want me to go back to school.

10:50 I was about to get kicked out of school.

10:51 I had like a 1.3 GPA, two semesters straight.

10:55 And you know, I had to work behind the scenes of, you know, Wow.

10:58 for them to keep me on.

10:59 I had to find alumni.

11:00 I had family that went there, wrote letters and things like that.

11:02 And it was like, look, I can't disappoint my parents.

11:04 Just take this off my hands.

11:06 They bought it and then that company actually got acquired

11:09 and the parent company that acquired them went public years ago.

11:13 Yeah.

11:14 And so it was like, man, but you know,

11:16 what's funny about it is I I honestly didn't even

11:18 know that it happened until maybe like 5, 10 years later.

11:21 You know, I was just so avoidance of the whole industry.

11:24 Like, since that moment in time,

11:27 I've yet to pick up a video game system or play anything.

11:30 Yeah, yeah.

11:30 So, I'm so far removed from that world.

11:33 Yeah, clean exit, yeah.

11:34 Yeah.

11:34 So then you get out of the business then and you focus on school.

11:37 Where does the entrepreneur ambition begin after?

11:39 I think you started like a marketing agency for a while.

11:42 Like, walk us through what was your next

11:43 entrepreneurial foray after you then focused on college?

11:46 Yeah, yeah, you know, so I've always had kind of that entrepreneurial bug,

11:48 you know, to where I I was always helping businesses.

11:52 You know, I I started a few businesses.

11:53 I was actually a DJ for a while.

11:55 Um you know, I turned that into a decent-sized business in itself.

11:59 Um but I was So, video games, DJ, software.

12:01 Yeah, you know, I I have a very interesting background.

12:04 1.3 GPA, too, yeah.

12:05 Uh you know, but at the same time I was also an intrapreneur.

12:09 You know, I actually worked for a company and the reason they brought me

12:11 on was to kind of help kind of this new team that they were building.

12:15 And you know, I I've always been a person

12:17 to just say yes and you'll figure it out later.

12:19 So, I joined them and helped develop some software.

12:23 And the fun thing about that was that was the first time

12:25 that I really understood what it meant to help a business grow.

12:28 Um you know, like the actions that you

12:31 Prior to that, anything that I sold or built

12:33 was just trying to help a person just

12:35 accomplish something or, you know, do something minor.

12:38 Mhm.

12:39 Um when I actually saw what I did

12:41 was actually helping a business grow and then you

12:43 see a lot of people actually monetize against it

12:46 and do good in the community because of that.

12:48 It kind of gave me that spark of like, this is the lane that I want to play in.

12:51 I don't like, you know, big businesses.

12:53 I don't like big enterprises you know, per se.

12:55 It's how can I help the small business and local communities.

12:58 And then, you know, through that company I actually got into IT consulting.

13:01 Mhm.

13:02 Um where I got to actually help businesses really top up their IT,

13:07 you know, their servers in closets, you know, to computers or workstations.

13:11 All that sort of stuff.

13:12 I got to really revamp it.

13:14 Back to Did you study it in college?

13:16 Uh kind of.

13:17 I studied technology management.

13:18 But you know, back to when I was starting game servers,

13:21 you know, playing on PCs and stuff, I was building computers.

13:23 I was always into technology and What was

13:26 it about it that fascinated you about tech?

13:28 Uh it was just fun and easy for me.

13:31 You know, it's [clears throat] a I I think

13:32 just that natural it's just so easy that I

13:35 just enjoyed it anytime that I got my hands

13:37 on computers or just being in that digital world.

13:41 It was just easy for me.

13:42 Yeah, and you could create from it, too.

13:44 Yeah, yeah.

13:45 You know, just it gave me a tool that I didn't have access to.

13:48 You know, I've always been kind of the shorter guy,

13:50 the the underdog in many different areas.

13:54 And this is the first time that I felt

13:55 like I had an even playing field of building something.

13:57 Yeah, and that can grow.

13:58 Yeah, yeah.

14:00 So then walk us walk us through then how you shift from being an entrepreneur,

14:03 you're consulting in IT tech.

14:05 Fast forward, how does that develop?

14:07 Were there other ideas before HighLevel?

14:09 Was there different softwares you tinkered with or projects?

14:11 Like, walk us through how you go

14:12 from that agency to building a billion-dollar company?

14:14 What what happens next after that?

14:16 Yeah, so you know, when I got into IT consulting,

14:19 that was the first time that I I got to work with big budgets

14:22 where people are paying a lot of money to redo their whole IT infrastructure.

14:26 And at the same time, those same companies were starting to look

14:29 at, how do we change our digital presence?

14:31 You know, we need to build a robust website.

14:33 We need to build databases for all of our customers and and all that.

14:37 While I was working on their servers,

14:39 they would come to me and saying, hey, we like what you do.

14:41 You know, we trust you.

14:42 What do you think about this quote?

14:44 And it was, you know, looking at one of the the, you know,

14:47 at that time marketing agencies and stuff like that.

14:49 And I would look at it and just say, wow,

14:51 I could do what they're offering and I'll do it for cheaper.

14:54 Just Mhm.

14:55 Let me do it, right?

14:56 Do you trust me?

14:57 And I just started picking up customers there.

14:59 And that was the first time that I've learned about the feast and famine.

15:01 You know, you pick up a project and you get the scope creep,

15:04 you're not charging enough, but it's fun.

15:06 And then once the project is done, you're like, well, what's next?

15:10 Right.

15:10 Right.

15:10 And that was the the famine side of it.

15:11 And then I started taking that and just started asking other friends,

15:15 other businesses that I know of, like, what can I do to help you?

15:19 And a lot of them came back to First,

15:20 it was the digital marketing side of new website,

15:22 logos, getting on social media.

15:24 Mhm.

15:24 Starting out there.

15:26 And then I I need to figure out, how do I turn this into a business?

15:29 You know, how do I turn it into subscriptions and recurring revenue?

15:33 And that's when I, you know, really got into lead generation,

15:36 really helping businesses at the top of the funnel.

15:38 Mhm.

15:38 Of how can I help them grow?

15:39 Cuz I knew if I can help them grow, they're going to be a customer for life.

15:43 Right.

15:43 Um and so that's where we really changed the dynamics

15:46 of the agency to really helping businesses grow from lead generation.

15:51 Mhm.

15:52 [clears throat] And then it turned into, okay,

15:54 now you're bringing in a whole bunch

15:55 of leads and helping businesses get new contacts,

15:57 but now you need to help them tie into their existing systems

16:01 and actually do some consulting to show them how to turn it into customers.

16:06 So, we were really known as the technology implementers

16:09 for a lot of different businesses that's out there.

16:11 And at its peak, we were, um you know,

16:14 gluing together about 15 to 16 different software applications and we were just

16:18 known as this company that like really knew how to put things together.

16:22 Um and at that time we had about 20 employees, about 200 customers.

16:28 And you know, I I ran into a lucky moment

16:31 where I had a customer reach out to me saying, hey, I just met these two guys.

16:35 They're trying to launch, you know, a software out there.

16:38 They're asking me for login and passwords.

16:40 I have no idea what they're asking me about.

16:41 You're my guy.

16:42 Can you talk to them?

16:43 And and get them access.

16:44 So, I called them and it happened to be Shaun Clark and Varun Varavalli,

16:48 my now two co-founders.

16:50 And they were launching, you know, kind of a precursor of what HighLevel is

16:54 in the reputation management side side of the house.

16:57 Got on a call with them and gave them access to to what they were looking for.

17:01 And then I was like, well, while I have you, like,

17:04 you know, what do you guys think about what I'm doing here?

17:06 And a couple weeks earlier, on our whiteboard, we mapped out, you know,

17:10 all the different software that we did and what it

17:12 would look like if we built our own version of software.

17:14 I still have that screenshot on my phone.

17:16 I haven't deleted it yet.

17:16 That's amazing.

17:17 Yeah.

17:17 And I was like, hold on, guys.

17:20 Let me jump off call real quick.

17:21 Ran to a conference room, took a picture,

17:23 brought it back on the Zoom call and showed it to them.

17:26 And they looked at it and said, wow,

17:28 this is really amazing like what you're doing and all that.

17:31 I was like, well, what what do you guys

17:32 think it would take to to build something like this?

17:35 Like, huh.

17:36 Well, give us a couple days and we'll call you back.

17:38 Mhm.

17:38 And you know, like, when you get on these calls,

17:40 like, you don't know who's on the other line.

17:42 Like, I didn't do any background search.

17:43 For all I know, they're just a project manager working for Megacorp, right?

17:47 Like, you don't know.

17:48 Yeah.

17:49 And lucky enough for me, you know,

17:51 Shaun and Varun call me back a couple days later.

17:54 And you know, first I remember the call, I was driving to work.

17:57 It was 8:00 a.m.

17:58 You know, I was driving to my office and got a call from Shaun.

18:01 Hey, dude.

18:02 Can you get on a call real quick or a Zoom call?

18:04 We want to show you what we built.

18:06 And I was like, [clears throat] sure, but wait, who is this again?

18:08 Like, I didn't even remember and I forgot that I even asked them.

18:11 And I didn't think that they were going to call me back.

18:13 Yeah.

18:13 Wow.

18:13 And you know, of course I get to the office,

18:16 go through my normal routine, getting coffee, talking to the team.

18:19 Didn't call them back.

18:20 And then two hours later, I remember being in another meeting with the team.

18:24 And Shaun's like, hey, where are you?

18:26 Like, we talk to you.

18:28 So, I was like, about I go get on the Zoom call

18:31 and they had built out basically the first version of what HighLevel is today.

18:34 Wow.

18:34 And it was a huge moment of like,

18:37 oh my gosh, like, this is something that's real.

18:40 Yeah.

18:40 And we took it, we loaded up for a test customer that we had.

18:44 Phenomenal success.

18:46 They went back to the co-customer that we had, loaded up for them.

18:49 And you know, instant success again.

18:51 And I was just kind of flabbergasted of like, oh my gosh,

18:54 like, you just solved the biggest pain point of my company.

18:57 Mhm.

18:58 What would it take for me to load it up

18:59 for all hundreds of my customers that that I have?

19:02 And they gave me, you know, the dollar amount.

19:04 They've never charged anyone at a level, you know, like this.

19:06 So, they're trying to figure it out like, what would you charge?

19:09 What would you pay?

19:10 You know, they're asking questions like that.

19:11 That's wild.

19:11 To think back, like,

19:12 looking back now and knowing what you guys have

19:14 built and are building like a billion-dollar plus company,

19:17 how does that feel for you knowing that that's like the beginning stages?

19:20 Like, what's that feel like for you?

19:21 You know, in hindsight, you know, there's so many things that could have

19:25 gone wrong from the conversations that we had.

19:27 And not necessarily go wrong, but, you know,

19:30 the way that we handled those conversations,

19:31 the way that we approached, you know, like, even negotiating.

19:34 Like, we could have kept it just strictly business.

19:36 Mhm.

19:36 But it [clears throat] was just genuine

19:38 in in the sense of we enjoyed talking to each other,

19:41 we enjoyed trying to solve this problem and trying to build it.

19:44 And, you know, from that perspective, you know,

19:47 my conscious point at that time is like, someone gave me immense value.

19:50 I need to double down and triple and how can

19:53 I give them 10x the value that they gave me?

19:55 Mhm.

19:56 So, I was looking at it as, "Not only will I pay you,

19:58 I'm going to pick up the phone and call a few people." Mhm.

20:01 And I remember talking to them like,

20:03 "I think I can help you get this out cuz I you know,

20:05 over the conversations that we had, I realized that they were just starting up.

20:07 They were trying to figure this market out." And I basically told them like,

20:11 "The way that you need to win is by talking to the people that are actually

20:14 doing the implementation of the software." Right.

20:17 Small businesses mostly don't have time to work on this.

20:20 They want it.

20:21 They need it.

20:22 They know the importance of it.

20:23 They just don't have the time to do

20:25 it and they leave it up to these individuals,

20:27 these marketing agencies or technology implementers, consultants.

20:30 Mhm.

20:31 They pass it on to them as their trusted

20:32 advisor to figure out how to put the tools together.

20:35 The technical nuances.

20:36 Yeah.

20:36 Yeah.

20:36 Yeah.

20:36 And I basically told them like, "I know that world,

20:38 so I'm going to pick up the phone and call a few

20:40 people that I know and you can see if they like it.

20:43 And I can tell you it's not just me.

20:44 Everyone will love it." And at that time, I reached out to 20 different people,

20:49 you know, all different agencies doing different things.

20:51 Right.

20:52 And you know, in the agency world, everyone says yes.

20:55 Yeah.

20:55 Yeah.

20:55 Yeah.

20:55 You know.

20:56 Um but will they do it?

20:57 Probably not.

20:58 Right.

20:58 And we had about 13 people that actually, you know,

21:00 followed through of testing it out and we asked them to get on calls

21:03 and walk through where they were having pain points and and things like that.

21:06 And the trade there was, "Look,

21:08 we'll let you have access to the software as long

21:10 as after 30 days you pay us a small fee." Mhm.

21:13 [clears throat] You know, it's just a lifetime fee.

21:16 Um and if you don't, no harm, no foul.

21:19 Cancel, we'll walk away and all that.

21:21 And the 13 people that said ye- yes and actually did it,

21:24 they all loved it and they all bought the software.

21:26 Wow.

21:26 And it was just awesome like, "Oh my gosh,

21:28 like money's starting to come in." And you know,

21:31 I was just looking at it as like I got them success.

21:33 Like I'm giving them value.

21:35 And I thought it it was done.

21:37 I was like, "I gave you guys the contacts.

21:38 I gave you guys the people that you want to work with.

21:41 Run with it.

21:42 I'm giving you guys momentum.

21:43 I hope you guys take off." And they just kept calling me back and you know,

21:47 and I I was also talking to them, right?

21:49 Like it was When was this?

21:50 This was 2018.

21:53 Hey guys, we'll get back to the video in a sec,

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22:51 let's get back to the show.

22:53 And what do you think it was like

22:54 in retrospect about the magic of those co-founders?

22:57 Cuz I'm sure along the path you had met people,

22:58 stuff, you know, projects got developed, started, stopped.

23:01 What was it about your co-founders you think that really

23:03 allowed you guys to build something special like that?

23:05 Like if you can pinpoint the ingredients.

23:07 Yeah, you know, when I met them in 2018,

23:09 it was never a moment of guarding or protecting,

23:13 you know, like anything that you're saying.

23:15 You know, sometimes like when you talk to customers,

23:17 you want to act like you have like you're the biggest

23:20 company that's out there and you know this better than anybody else.

23:23 You have it all figured out.

23:24 Yeah.

23:24 Yeah.

23:24 And of course, that's why you're working with me, right?

23:26 That that feeling there.

23:27 Um you know, the second that I got on with Shawn and Varun,

23:30 it was just 100% all of us just

23:32 being genuine and just there's a problem out there, let's just figure it out.

23:35 And you know, there is no you know, there's no incentive short of like if we

23:40 solve this, like we'll just keep going, right?

23:42 And just follow the momentum.

23:43 We all three of us naturally have that skill set

23:46 and I think that's why we we get along so well.

23:49 Yeah.

23:49 And then when did you first catch the moment of like,

23:51 "Holy this is really taking off beyond just local

23:53 customers." Where was that moment where you were like,

23:55 "Holy cow, this is going to be a lot bigger than we thought."

23:57 Yeah, so we met in 2018.

24:01 We rolled it out to these group of customers

24:03 at the end of 2018 and we get into 2019.

24:06 One of the 13 that we had, you know, he's still around today.

24:10 His name is Rob Bailey.

24:11 Mhm.

24:12 He actually had sold his marketing agency

24:14 and when I showed him the product, you know,

24:16 we've been good friends and so I kind of called him and was like,

24:18 "Hey, would you want to test this out?

24:19 What do you think?" And he basically told me like, "What you guys built,

24:24 it would it cost me about $40,000 a month just

24:27 to have just a portion of what the software accomplish.

24:30 Mhm.

24:30 You guys are offering it too cheap and it would have changed the dynamics

24:34 of my business had I known about it before I sold it." Mhm.

24:37 [clears throat]

24:37 Um and he was actually transitioning into becoming a business coach.

24:40 Mhm.

24:40 And through that process, he said, "In January,

24:44 I'm going to be hosting an event.

24:45 There's going to be about 20 people in person and 20 people virtually.

24:48 I'd love for you guys to demo the product and um just as, you know,

24:52 good value and it's good content for his his events as well." Right.

24:56 And so we said yes.

24:57 You know, like I said, I always say yes.

24:59 You know, we'll figure it out later.

25:01 Um so Shawn and and I fly out to San Diego.

25:04 Varun, uh the third co-founder, he's in Qatar,

25:06 so he couldn't make it and he was actually about to have a baby at that time.

25:10 Um but Shawn and I met for the first time in person, you know,

25:13 we we're sitting at a air we're actually staying at a sketchy Airbnb.

25:17 Actually, like you know, we we didn't want to spend any money

25:19 or anything like that over the train tracks.

25:21 And at this time, were you guys all making a little

25:23 bit of money or are you guys all kind of You know,

25:25 I had the agency and it was taking care of, you know, kind of my bill bills.

25:29 You know, just like anything else, it's trying to figure out how to grow it

25:31 and I took every penny back into the business.

25:33 Right.

25:33 Um Shawn and Varun, they had incredible wives that were was funding,

25:38 kind of, you know, helping them go

25:39 down the entrepreneurial journey at that time.

25:41 That's awesome.

25:42 But you know, for all three of us, there was no personal revenue coming in.

25:46 It was all just, you know, Reinvesting back into building this.

25:49 And that's how we built HighLevel as well.

25:52 Um but yeah, at that time we we met literally on the flight there.

25:57 I'm creating a landing page to take pictures.

25:58 We had nothing, right?

26:00 Yeah.

26:00 Um but we get there.

26:02 We we meet for the first time.

26:04 We go to dinner.

26:04 We're we're talking.

26:05 We zoom in with with Varun and we don't

26:08 talk anything about what we're supposed to be doing there.

26:10 We're just catching up, you know, talking about family, talking about ambition,

26:13 goals with the product can do and you know, where do we go next?

26:17 Who do we talk to?

26:18 So, just having all those conversations and we're like,

26:20 "All right, we got to be up early tomorrow.

26:22 Let's get some rest." Wake up.

26:23 We get there.

26:25 And you know, we're sitting there.

26:27 I know a few people just cuz I'm in the marketing industry.

26:30 Shawn knew nobody.

26:31 Um and we're just sitting there.

26:33 I'm talking to him trying to make him feel comfortable.

26:35 Right.

26:36 And we're just working away, being a part of the event.

26:39 And then we get announced like, "Hey,

26:42 would you guys like to come up and do do a presentation?" Mhm.

26:45 [clears throat] We we go through the demo.

26:46 We had a hour slot.

26:47 We go through the demo in about 15 minutes.

26:50 And we're like, "All right, well that's it." Yeah.

26:52 And I remember that awkward like, "Well, all right.

26:55 Well, thank you.

26:56 We're going to go sit down." And it was Shawn and me

26:59 standing up and then Varun is on the back on a big screen,

27:02 you know, with the demo and you see

27:03 his face up there and we're just like, "All right.

27:05 Well, thank you guys." And then before we sat down,

27:08 you know, the host of the event was like, "Woah, woah, woah.

27:10 You guys, all right.

27:11 Let's let's ask for some questions." Mhm.

27:14 And it was quiet at first and then out of nowhere,

27:16 one person asked a question, another person,

27:18 another person and it just everybody's asking questions on what can it

27:21 do this and what about that and how do we look at it?

27:23 Then it got into like, "Hey, we're looking at your pricing.

27:26 Um there's no way that it's this affordable.

27:28 Can we uh prepay for a year?" Mhm.

27:31 And I'm like, I remember looking at the camera.

27:33 I'm looking at Shawn.

27:34 I'm like, "Yes, we can." Yeah.

27:36 And then they're asking for other product and features that like,

27:39 "Can you do a mobile app?

27:40 What would you charge for that?" Literally making

27:42 up things you know, out of our mind.

27:44 And when we said yes, I kind of slid away back to my computer like adding it,

27:48 you know, payment options.

27:50 Thank you.

27:52 Yeah, exactly.

27:52 And at the same time, we never built a onboarding process Mhm.

27:55 to where you can when you sign up,

27:59 it literally went to a spreadsheet and Varun, who's on the the screen,

28:03 he's just, you know, smiling like he's attentive to the meeting,

28:06 but really in front of him, he has a spreadsheet open.

28:08 He's manually sending out emails.

28:10 Here's how to log in.

28:11 Here's your information and Yeah.

28:12 created like a basic template.

28:14 We never built that system to to doing that.

28:17 Um but you know, we we had sold basically everyone in the room and virtually.

28:21 Mhm.

28:22 And from that point on, we made sure

28:23 that everyone got onboarded and made sure that everybody,

28:26 you know, had success into the platform.

28:29 And that first year, we it was just us three doing demos non-stop.

28:34 Getting on calls with everyone who signed up, making sure that they got adopted.

28:38 That was our biggest thing.

28:39 And we would always ask, "Hey, you know, now that we see that you're adopted,

28:42 do you know anyone else that would like this product?"

28:44 And we just got so good at asking that question Mhm.

28:47 that people would be like, "Actually, I know somebody else.

28:49 They're on mine as well.

28:50 Let me invite them to the call or let me put you

28:51 on a text message thread with them." And we would just hammer this out non-stop.

28:55 And then get to the end of 2019,

28:57 I remember like we were on a call and we're like,

28:59 "Hey, we're almost at 1,000 customers." And I was like, "What?

29:03 There's no there's no way." And yeah, the fun thing was, you know,

29:07 we we like we hooked up a different software to do the analytics and we're like,

29:11 "Oh, maybe Stripe is wrong." Or something like that.

29:13 But yeah, we hit 1,000 customers the first year.

29:16 And that was kind of the aha moment of like, "Oh,

29:19 we actually have a business that's actually

29:22 doing something." Um and then from there,

29:25 we just kind of kept going and you know,

29:28 of course, COVID hit and it it was interesting.

29:30 COVID help or hurt the business?

29:32 Uh it helped the business definitely.

29:35 [clears throat] I think a couple things happened.

29:36 One, we were definitely set up in the perspective

29:41 of being a great opportunity online and a great software.

29:44 I think because of COVID, we didn't have to pivot our business in any way.

29:49 It was just having the right product that people were seeking

29:52 for at scale because people had what they didn't have prior, which was time.

29:57 Mhm.

29:57 Yeah, every small business was trying to figure out what is the new

29:59 way to grow my business cuz I don't see the customers anymore.

30:02 You know, people were, you know, sitting at home during that time.

30:04 You couldn't even get out of your your home.

30:06 So, everyone was looking for alternative options.

30:09 And that's really the tool that we built.

30:10 They're calling marketing agencies.

30:12 They're calling technology people.

30:13 What do I need to do?

30:14 What can I do right now since I have the time?

30:17 HighLevel was the best opportunity.

30:18 And so, it definitely helped us.

30:20 And because we're a remote company, Mhm.

30:22 we were not hit with any of the challenges

30:24 that that other businesses dealt with of, you know,

30:27 what do we do with our office?

30:28 You know, how do we change the way that we

30:30 operate so that we can hold more accountability to staff members.

30:33 The infrastructure was already set up for you.

30:35 already ready to go.

30:35 Now, how soon did you guys start hiring team members, developers?

30:39 Like, what were your first key hires

30:40 in growing the business beyond just you three?

30:41 And when did that happen?

30:42 [clears throat] Yeah, so within the first 6 months of the company, um you know,

30:46 the if you kind of look at, the three co-founders,

30:49 you know, like I come in I have a technology background.

30:51 I I built tools and things like that.

30:52 But, you know, Shaun and Varun are incredible engineers and and developers.

30:56 Um they were able to build kind of the first version of HighLevel.

31:00 Um Shaun and I really kind of took

31:02 the lead of continuing to help customers, you know, when they signed up,

31:05 how do we make sure that they're getting a good customer experience?

31:07 How do we make sure they get adopted?

31:08 Um Varun was the first one to kind of drop out of that to focus on product

31:13 yeah, product developing, you know, coding and and things like that.

31:17 Um once we got to about three um probably about

31:20 3 months after that, um now we're about month six,

31:22 we decided, "Hey, we need to get more resources." So,

31:24 we started to look for another engineer.

31:27 Um and that's where we brought that person in, Nikunj.

31:29 And uh he's still with us today.

31:31 And then That's awesome.

31:32 in [clears throat] tandem, it's okay,

31:34 we need a backfill for Varun cuz we're getting so much more volume of customers.

31:38 Let's get someone to help after we do the demo call and get someone set up.

31:41 Who's going to help them long term?

31:43 And so, that's where you brought on um

31:45 Ian who um was actually a friend of Shaun's.

31:48 Um they had worked together at a previous company.

31:50 And uh yeah, I mean,

31:52 that that was I think probably month seven, month eight of the company.

31:55 And how many different pricing models did you guys have in place?

31:58 And what are the current ones just for people watching who

32:00 might not know or might have not tried it out yet?

32:02 Like, cuz I'm sure like, for example,

32:04 we interviewed um the former CEO of Netflix.

32:06 He told us that as simple as the concept of $9.99 a month was,

32:10 unlimited everything digital, he was like,

32:12 there was almost like 18 different pricing restructuring

32:14 and all this time and tech and all this research.

32:17 For you guys, you know, what was that process like in terms

32:19 of figuring out pricing models and things like that?

32:22 And what is it today?

32:23 Yeah, so when we started out,

32:25 uh we basically looked at what is the best pricing that that's

32:29 out there and how can we either match it or beat it?

32:31 Um so, we landed on $97 where it gives you all the different tools.

32:35 And then we had a unlimited option at $297 where

32:38 allows you as an agency to have unlimited customers in there.

32:41 Mhm.

32:41 We want to make it as frictionless as possible.

32:44 Mhm.

32:44 Uh fast forward 8 years later,

32:46 we still have those two plans and really haven't deviated much out of it.

32:49 Short of we created a a new tier, which is $497.

32:52 It's optional, but it gives you some additional functionality.

32:56 But, at the core of it, it's still flat rate.

32:58 We want to give as many tools as possible

33:00 and just make it easy for businesses to grow.

33:03 Uh where companies struggle and why they can't

33:05 change their pricing model mostly in the software

33:06 space is they built a whole ecosystem

33:09 and infrastructure to manage that pricing model.

33:11 You have sales people who are selling it.

33:12 So, you have commissions Yeah,

33:14 commissions and sales targets and quotas and things like that.

33:17 If you change your pricing model, change the whole dynamics of your business.

33:19 What do you do with your old customers versus new customers?

33:22 Yeah.

33:22 Um for us, because we've leaned into it from the very beginning,

33:26 we've and we figured out how to do it profitable from the very beginning,

33:30 we've never had a reason to change.

33:32 I was reading about that that you guys built it without a sales team.

33:34 Yeah, we still don't have a sales team today.

33:36 That's freaking incredible.

33:37 Now, what about if you feel comfortable sharing,

33:39 what about revenue year one, year two, year three?

33:41 Are you comfortable sharing even ballparks of it just so

33:44 people can track the growth of it cuz it's pretty explosive.

33:46 Yeah, no, I I think um year one,

33:50 I want to say we were close to a million dollars a year annually.

33:54 I mean, once we hit a thousand customers.

33:56 Um you know, a couple years later,

33:59 I think we were doing, you know, 20 20 to 30 million.

34:05 Um and then, [clears throat] you know,

34:06 it's just been growing incredibly fast from there.

34:09 Yeah.

34:09 Yeah.

34:10 Where was the moment where you were like, "Holy Like,

34:12 I'm sure there's been moments where I'm sure when you get past 100 million ARR,

34:15 that's you're pretty like, okay,

34:16 this is this is a little bigger than we thought."

34:18 What's funny is, you know, between Shaun, Varun, and I,

34:21 we actually don't leverage the revenue number as like a Yeah.

34:25 tracker in growing the business.

34:27 For us, it's really about our customer sentiment and and things like that.

34:29 So, it's how many customers do we have?

34:32 Like, that to us or like, how many businesses are on our platform?

34:36 That's the Oh my gosh, like, what's going on?

34:39 This is incredible.

34:40 So, for me, you know, the big milestones was definitely, you know,

34:42 getting a thousand customers, getting to 10,000 and then 50,000,

34:46 you know, the year after that.

34:48 Um and then this past year we just eclipsed 100,000 customers

34:51 and we're we're And what's crazy about it is through those 100,000 customers,

34:55 um and you know, we've gone past that, we're

34:57 serving over a million businesses around the world.

35:00 Wow.

35:00 And that that to me is a powerful number.

35:03 How have you guys been able to have

35:04 thousands cuz you guys have thousands of employees, right?

35:06 Over a thousand?

35:07 Yeah, roughly around 2,000 employees.

35:08 have 2,000 employees and you guys built it

35:10 remotely without infrastructure of office in a world where,

35:13 you know, people see the the cultural decline in offices.

35:16 I know we talked about it off camera,

35:17 but how were you guys able to build a culture that was so

35:19 tight like that with that many

35:20 employees quality controlling without a sales team?

35:23 Yeah.

35:23 Like, how do you What do you think you

35:24 guys did well that most people just don't get right?

35:26 Uh I mean, we've always focused on outcome, right?

35:29 Like, you you need to know what the goal is and just get to that.

35:32 Finish it by any means necessary.

35:34 And [clears throat] then just having the right tools in place.

35:35 I mean, for us, we live off of Slack and most importantly Zoom.

35:38 And you just treat Zoom as if you're in the office.

35:41 Uh I mean, the the second that you wake up,

35:43 there's a Zoom room that you can be in that's running 24/7.

35:46 We have [clears throat and snorts] uh you know,

35:47 to where when you go into a Zoom room,

35:49 we have basically the lobby that that's out there.

35:52 Um and then you have breakout rooms

35:53 that you can shift into, talk to different people.

35:55 And you create kind of a virtual office uh virtual office,

35:59 you know, concept that that's there.

36:01 Right.

36:01 But, over time just naturally, it's hey, we're just on meetings uh all day long

36:04 and it doesn't matter where you're at in the world.

36:06 Mhm.

36:06 And also look at it from a talent perspective.

36:09 You know, as great like, you know, in Dallas, for example,

36:12 it's a great market and there's a lot of great talent.

36:15 But, if you zoom out, there's talent everywhere in the world.

36:18 And so, why are you limiting the opportunity to get someone who's

36:21 great who just doesn't happen to be living in in your market?

36:25 And so, for us, it's Do you know

36:27 geograph your geographic location doesn't matter for us.

36:30 We just want to find the best person,

36:31 bring you on, and just be ready to be in front of your computer

36:34 and and be able to be available and talk to whoever comes your way.

36:38 What do you guys think allowed you guys to iterate as fast as you guys

36:41 do as a software company where traditionally

36:43 your competitors are nowhere even close to it?

36:46 You know, there's been a lot of competitors, for example,

36:47 in the software space that had a really tough time with customer

36:50 support or um advancing new features or having limited amounts of templates.

36:54 But, it seems you guys are constantly

36:55 innovating and implementing and iterating different products,

36:58 launching things every month.

37:00 How tough is that to manage logistically?

37:02 And what have you guys been able to put in place to like manage that chaos?

37:05 Or do you build it knowing that things

37:06 will break and you'll just iterate it in place?

37:08 Like, what's the psychology there?

37:10 Cuz a lot of people don't do that.

37:11 So, I'm curious where that choice came from.

37:12 Yeah, so I think there's a transition

37:15 in how software is actually being developed.

37:17 It used to be, you know, even before things went to the cloud and you know,

37:20 you're able to have the even the opportunity to make

37:22 changes on the fly and everyone can see it,

37:25 you had to take software and you have to build it

37:27 to a finish line and then send it out to customers.

37:31 And then, that's it.

37:32 Like, there's a finite point to it.

37:34 For us, we look at it as it's a living, breathing thing, right?

37:38 You constantly have to feed it.

37:39 You constantly have to iterate, make it better, faster.

37:42 It's no different than the human body.

37:43 And like with AI, there's more ad, you know, things coming out of it.

37:46 changes and stuff like that.

37:47 And we've built from a perspective of our community leads us.

37:53 You know, the way that our agencies

37:55 and the way that our customers leverage the platform,

37:58 we need to learn and understand from it.

37:59 We're just building tools.

38:01 But, how you use the tools can be fundamentally different.

38:03 And people are constantly pushing the limits forward.

38:07 And when you push the limits forward and you make changes,

38:10 it might break something else.

38:11 Mhm.

38:12 And so, that was definitely the the model that we built from.

38:15 One of the things that we like to talk about is our development model is like,

38:19 starting out building What is a skateboard?

38:21 What is our MVP?

38:22 And then from there, let's work together to learn from what

38:25 our customers are doing to change out the wheels.

38:28 And maybe we want to, you know,

38:29 the next goal is to turn it into a scooter, right?

38:31 So, you need to build the next thing to put a handlebar on on the skateboard.

38:35 And then from there, you keep making it better.

38:37 You change the wheels out.

38:37 Now you put car tires on there.

38:39 You need to put an engine on it.

38:40 And then, you know, it just gets bigger and bigger

38:42 and bigger and eventually it'll turn into a race car.

38:44 But, you don't for us,

38:45 it's not about predicting the future or predicting the end goal.

38:48 It's Look, we we learned what you need from a basic perspective.

38:52 And because you're using the basic perspective,

38:54 you're always looking for what's the next thing that I need.

38:56 Just tell us and we'll build it and we'll continue to add on.

38:59 Why do you think most companies don't do that?

39:01 Uh it's not common uh from how people think and operate.

39:06 Mhm.

39:06 And it's also there's a fear of well, what happens if I break something?

39:11 And customers get mad.

39:12 Yeah, and for us, it's let's just take it on head on.

39:14 We're building with them.

39:15 So, there's only a certain level that they're going to get angry about.

39:18 And we don't let our ego get in in our way.

39:21 And so, we own it when we make, you know,

39:24 mistakes or and we want to fix it as fast as possible.

39:26 think to a degree the fact that you iterate so

39:28 fast kind of gives you permission to have things break?

39:32 Like, the people are like, "Okay, cool.

39:33 It might break, but we know that you're working on it to make it better." Do you

39:36 think there's a certain amount of that involved

39:37 or do customers not really care when they're paying?

39:39 Uh no, definitely, you know, in our early years that was,

39:44 you know, definitely get out of jail card for us.

39:46 You know, it's like, "Hey, we're we're building we're doing stuff very fast,

39:49 but don't worry, we're fixing it." I think over the past,

39:52 you know, 2 3 years we've definitely changed the like we

39:55 put more systems in place to minimize those challenges that that's happened.

40:01 And I think we've done a great job in moving into that direction of, you know,

40:03 people want stability, people want reliability.

40:06 We've built a lot of the core tools to where you know,

40:09 early on when it's a skateboard moving

40:11 into a scooter to turning it into a motorcycle, you know, kind of evolving.

40:15 A lot of our core tools that we built 8 years ago are now race cars.

40:18 And so now where you're seeing a lot of innovation is

40:21 really in the new areas that are a bit more nascent,

40:24 you know, as we're talking about AI or new tools that we're building.

40:28 That's where we have more flexibility because it's

40:30 the early adopters that are focused on that.

40:32 Now with the rest of the the platform that we have,

40:35 people want stability and that's what they're expecting and that's what Luckily,

40:38 there's not a lot of new innovation in those core tools.

40:40 They just need it to work all the time.

40:42 So that's where our focus is these days.

40:43 What about the biggest challenge you've

40:45 learned in building a billion-dollar company?

40:47 Like what's been the biggest challenges in building a billion-dollar company?

40:50 I'll say the the biggest challenge is keeping the culture,

40:54 keeping the culture [clears throat] tight.

40:55 With scale?

40:56 Yeah, and a lot of it is just it's artificial.

41:00 And what I mean by that is well,

41:02 I saw another company do this or I saw [clears throat] it on TV

41:06 and this is how you're supposed to operate when you're at this level.

41:08 values on the wall or whatever it is.

41:10 Yeah.

41:10 Yeah, and you know, there's that statement of what

41:12 got you here is not going to get you there.

41:15 That's right.

41:15 I look at that as that being completely false.

41:17 Like why can't it be that what got you here can keep you going, right?

41:21 [clears throat] And that's you know, for us it's how do we keep the momentum?

41:24 How do we keep the energy?

41:25 How do we keep it alive?

41:27 And as we're getting bigger, it's getting more and more challenging.

41:31 And then you know, I actually had a conversation with my team about it today

41:33 on my span of being able to talk

41:36 to the team is getting smaller and smaller every day.

41:39 And and so I'm really challenging my leadership team to to take

41:42 the baton on and how do they work with their leaders to make sure,

41:46 you know, three, four, five rungs down are they holding the same

41:50 line and holding that same culture because it's

41:52 so easy as you're bringing new people

41:54 in that they want to bring in their skill sets.

41:56 And everyone wants to do a good job.

41:57 Right.

41:58 But, you know, do you look at it from a culture

42:00 perspective or do you look at it from operations perspective?

42:02 And I think culture always wins.

42:03 What about the biggest lessons you've learned running a billion-dollar company,

42:07 hiring and firing A players?

42:10 You know, I I I think you know, the easy answer is, you know, what is it?

42:15 Hire slow, fire fast.

42:17 I don't know if that model necessarily works.

42:18 I mean, I think everyone interviews great and everyone you know,

42:21 and everyone does good stuff.

42:23 You know, I I like to think that you you want to hire

42:26 for really the the energy that someone brings and um you know,

42:31 you can get a good read on do you want to work with this person?

42:34 And do they And then do they also have the skills that they have?

42:37 [clears throat] But a lot of it just requires time.

42:39 Mostly at the leadership level you're you're

42:42 no longer driving a a little speedboat.

42:44 Now you have a big big ship and there's

42:45 a lot of change management that's required or, you know,

42:48 really aligning people and it takes time.

42:50 And for me, I need to throw someone into the fire as fast

42:52 as possible to see how they react and how people respond to them.

42:56 And once you get those signals, you can kind of determine you know,

43:01 are they the right person or not?

43:03 And then that's really the model that I I look at.

43:05 Do you guys do any assessments in particular or any types

43:08 of like formalized process in these assessments when you guys hire people?

43:11 Uh I mean, if we do, I I don't pay attention to it.

43:15 I'm more of a person throw you in the fire, see how you do.

43:18 Yeah, yeah, exactly.

43:19 I I look at more personality.

43:20 I want to see how you respond in situations.

43:22 How are you thinking about it and [clears throat] how are you reacting?

43:25 And it takes a lot of course adjustment on you you kind of take

43:31 your baggage and your history from all

43:32 the different companies you've worked at or, you know,

43:34 what you've seen, all your personal experiences and you

43:36 try to use that as your first way to execute.

43:39 And either it's going to work and everything is great and if not

43:43 what I pay attention to is how do you respond when someone's saying,

43:46 "Don't go down that path.

43:47 Like don't touch the oven,

43:48 the oven's hot." How do you react to that and how do you make changes?

43:51 Are you listening or are you going to be

43:53 resistant or are you going to get frustrated?

43:56 And then how do you talk to the people

43:57 that you're trying to move in that direction?

44:00 And if they don't respond well or the team doesn't resonate, you know,

44:04 you can tell very quickly and that translates into not only the KPIs

44:08 or the goals or the metrics that you put on the team,

44:10 but also on the the sentiment of what our customers think.

44:13 And so we we try to be very quick once

44:15 we see those signals and try to move someone out.

44:18 What's the biggest misconception about

44:19 running operations for a billion-dollar company?

44:22 Cuz I'm sure you get questions a lot from entrepreneurs,

44:24 people asking you how you do stuff.

44:25 What's the biggest misconception that you think

44:27 most people think it looks one way,

44:28 but it really is focused on something else that really moves the needle?

44:32 Yeah, I think the biggest thing is like there's

44:34 an exact playbook or a methodology in how to accomplish things.

44:38 Black and white.

44:39 Yeah, yeah, yeah, and everything is black and white.

44:40 There is no gray.

44:42 There is no nuance.

44:43 It's just, you know, what book did you read and how can I learn

44:45 how to do this in a way that you know, I'll come back to say it's, you know,

44:48 for Shaun and Vaynand I it's just and really the team

44:50 that we want is like just deal with it head on.

44:53 And nothing should be predicted and nothing should be planned.

44:56 Now you should try to to make goals and try to achieve the goals,

44:59 but just know that anything that you put on paper [clears throat]

45:02 it's you're going to deviate very very quickly and be

45:05 comfortable with that and make changes sooner than later.

45:08 What's one of the biggest mistakes you guys made early

45:10 on that would like lead to like a pivot or significant pivot?

45:13 Just cuz I'm sure people listening to this are like,

45:14 "Wow, this is a fascinating story,

45:16 but on a human level CEOs and COOs and executive teams run

45:19 into challenges all the time where things are always done one way,

45:22 but then a little shift and it totally

45:24 changes the business." Are there any things like

45:26 that that come to mind where it was like

45:27 you guys were doing things one way and then

45:29 you made one shift and turned it around

45:31 from a really rough situation better just so the audience

45:33 can kind of get a pulse on maybe

45:35 how you've navigated a specific challenge at high level.

45:39 Yeah, I mean there's been so many things.

45:42 I I think the biggest disclaimer is that whenever

45:45 we even get a hint of something going wrong,

45:48 kind of back [clears throat] out of it very quickly

45:49 and pivot so the exposure of it is is very minimal.

45:53 But you know, some basic stories that I have is you know,

45:57 one of them was we wanted to change help desk platforms.

46:00 Mhm.

46:01 And we [clears throat] really didn't need to.

46:02 There was no forcing function.

46:04 It was just that that statement of because you're quote-unquote bigger,

46:09 you need to be on better platforms.

46:11 And so we went to one of the biggest platforms as of the world.

46:14 We were ready to migrate over and the and everything was

46:16 great and the team was confident everything's going to work fine.

46:19 And the day that we migrated over,

46:21 I remember that was the biggest day that we got

46:23 support tickets and issues and we couldn't even track it.

46:26 People were just all over us.

46:28 And it took us about 3 days to have to revert back

46:31 and that was the worst move that we ever did and it was literally,

46:34 you know, all hands on deck.

46:35 We went back to our roots of just pick up

46:37 the phone and start calling everybody and getting on Facebook chats and Yeah.

46:42 texting people.

46:43 Like whatever you can do,

46:44 just get on the phone and talk to them, talk them off a ledge.

46:47 Let's get them into a situation where they're they're feeling good about it.

46:50 Um because through that migration we basically shut down

46:52 support and because it was a failed execution there.

46:56 But the team rallied at that point and we got back

46:58 and that's when we realized like if there's no forcing function,

47:01 don't break what's not broke.

47:03 Mhm.

47:03 And so that that was a big thing.

47:05 Another one I remember when we're growing the company,

47:07 it's everyone would say we really need HR.

47:11 I'm like, "I don't think you really do." Like that is

47:13 the worst decision ever like once you start saying that.

47:16 And you know, of course you you have to at a certain point,

47:19 but I I I wish back then we really

47:22 dove into understanding why people were asking for it.

47:25 And it wasn't [clears throat] that people were necessarily asking for HR.

47:27 What they were asking for is what is Can I get some additional

47:30 support for either career advancement or I

47:33 don't know how to have tough conversations.

47:36 [clears throat] They weren't asking for it, you know,

47:37 I'd love to be able to log in and clock my hours and then,

47:40 you know, have a system to do time off or quick.

47:41 Like that wasn't the problem.

47:43 But when you don't zoom in to figure out what the actual problem is,

47:46 you can it's so easy to get caught

47:48 into making these drastic decisions The underlying need.

47:51 Yeah, yeah.

47:51 And that could change the direction of the company if you don't catch it.

47:54 Mhm.

47:55 What about in terms of growth?

47:56 Like what's the vision now?

47:57 Cuz I know you guys did a raise at 60 million, I think in 2021.

48:01 I know you guys have grown the company significantly since then.

48:04 What's the vision for HighLevel in terms of long-term?

48:06 Cuz I know you guys are adding AI agents,

48:08 all the new AI functions, integrations.

48:11 Like we use you guys for email, text.

48:13 You guys do almost everything.

48:14 And every month there's always a new thing,

48:16 but what's the vision for you guys ultimately to build HighLevel to do?

48:19 Like Yeah, I mean, look,

48:20 we love what we do every single day and it's trying not to to change.

48:25 You know, we want to continue innovating.

48:26 We want to continue building the best software stack

48:28 that's out there that every small business will do.

48:31 And so it's, you know, beyond just what we're doing here domestically,

48:34 we're really trying to push on the international

48:36 front and just create world domination.

48:38 And you know, and you know,

48:40 at the same time it's also following where the trends are.

48:43 You know, we're asking our customers,

48:44 we're asking the community, what's what's happening?

48:47 And we want to make sure that we're

48:48 aligned there because we don't want to be stale.

48:50 We don't want to be legacy software at any point.

48:52 So you know, through that world domination, it's just making sure that we're

48:55 staying current with what's happening out there.

48:57 Keeping your foot on the gas.

48:58 Exactly.

48:59 Where did the name GoHighLevel come from?

49:00 And what were some of the other names thrown into the mix?

49:02 I'm curious who came up with it.

49:04 Yeah, so you know, Shaun was the one that had the domain and and got it.

49:09 You know, it was him just trying to figure out like what are cool names and then

49:12 it you start getting into the name generators

49:14 and it was him and his wife who were,

49:16 you know, try this and try that and I think they landed on, you know,

49:19 it'd be really cool to have HighLevel.

49:21 Mhm.

49:21 And [clears throat] it's actually the official company name is HighLevel.

49:25 And of course the domain was taken.

49:26 And then it was, well, maybe you can buy the domain,

49:29 but it's going to cost a lot of money or what are some other words?

49:32 And at that time, you know, everyone was using these little, you know, prefixes.

49:36 Go try.

49:37 Yeah, exactly.

49:38 And and go happen to be be there and had a good ring.

49:40 So Sean ended up buying it for you know nine

49:42 bucks or whatever and we've just ran with it since then.

49:45 Built into a billion dollar company.

49:46 Uh you know we're we're we're still trying to figure it out.

49:49 That's awesome man.

49:50 Now one thing I want to ask too is we wrote to our entrepreneurial community

49:54 that we were going to be interviewing you

49:55 and so they sent in a couple questions.

49:57 So one of the questions was um you know

49:59 in in a leadership position when it comes to making decisions whether it's

50:03 new product functions pricing things on customers things that really would

50:06 either significantly grow the business

50:08 or relatively speaking they're drastic moves.

50:10 One of the questions they had is what's

50:12 your framework for decision making when it comes to that?

50:15 Um So when you're face when you're faced with making a decision

50:19 in the business and everyone's kind of looking at you you don't have all

50:21 the information but it could have significant

50:23 ramifications one way or the other what's

50:25 your sort of process for decision making when you don't have all the info?

50:30 Uh I like to get to the root of why we're even having the conversation.

50:34 You know I think understanding Yeah yeah what [clears

50:36 throat] is Yeah what is the force function here?

50:38 Like what's causing us to even have this conversation?

50:41 And you know at the stage that we're

50:42 at you know a lot [clears throat] of decisions

50:44 kind of roll up where everyone's kind

50:45 of at a stalemate like everybody has good intention.

50:47 Everyone is trying to do a good job and everyone wants to make like it's

50:51 not that the decision is wrong it's just how do we get to the final outcome?

50:56 [clears throat] Thinking downside yeah.

50:57 Yeah and that's it.

50:58 You're you're kind of looking at what is the upside here?

51:00 What is the downside?

51:02 Um I I like to these days I like to ask the hard questions

51:08 so that everyone who's you know trying

51:10 to push their agenda the answer becomes obvious.

51:14 Right?

51:15 And over time you kind of you know if you

51:17 like to say I like to to beat people up

51:19 with different questions cuz you just keep going deeper

51:21 and deeper and deeper to where people kind of give up.

51:23 But you do the the right answer is where you're still holding.

51:26 Yeah yeah you know where they had their their feet

51:28 on the ground saying no this is the the right decision and when

51:31 you feel that passion everybody really rallies around it and I think

51:34 that's where you how you get to the right right decision there.

51:37 Okay and then the third question was what

51:40 were the levers that grew the business the most?

51:42 Cuz I'm sure throughout the years there's been a lot

51:43 of ideas things you tried that didn't work things that did.

51:46 What were you know significant decisions that really

51:48 took the business to a significantly new level?

51:50 Uh I the the major one for us was how do you take a software

51:54 and create a human background to it which means um anyone that comes on board

52:00 [clears throat] let's put a human there and let's actually you know teach

52:03 them how to use the product and how to get support.

52:06 That was one of the first moves that we made.

52:07 Oh like how when people log into the software you have

52:09 like a tutorial people go in and can actually get training.

52:12 Yeah there's a full 24/7 team that you can connect with at any

52:15 time you can hop on Zoom share your screen and actually get support there.

52:19 Something that you know Sean and I did

52:20 from the very beginning and we just kept that going.

52:22 We've never tried to scale the the model

52:25 in a way of we need to get to zero humans.

52:27 You know of course we're we're trying to figure

52:29 out ways to optimize it but we do believe that having the human aspect to it is

52:32 really one of our biggest moats that we have.

52:35 Um because we're able to do it in such

52:36 a profitable way you know on the business side.

52:38 But that aspect gives that personal relationship you know the statement

52:42 is always I do business with a person not with a company.

52:46 And so the more humans that you can

52:47 have people feel that close connection and we

52:50 want to make sure that we're serving our customers

52:51 and making sure their businesses are are thriving.

52:54 You don't want to just say I'm using a a tool and and that's

52:56 it because any click and pay and tools are dime a dozen.

53:00 It's really that the people behind it that that push it forward.

53:02 So to me that's one of the biggest drivers of what grows our business.

53:06 How have you changed the most you know

53:08 being a COO running a company like HighLevel?

53:10 I'm sure you've grown tremendously.

53:12 I'm sure the amount of scale you guys have

53:14 also you see things at a totally different perspective.

53:17 How would you say you've grown the most in running the company as a you know

53:20 as somebody that just started a decade ago

53:22 and now you guys are doing what you're doing?

53:23 Yeah you know a lot of it is trying to figure out how to let go of things.

53:27 Um and if you you know I've always had the the mentality of if I'm

53:32 not in the trenches with my team you know I'm not being an effective leader.

53:36 And I think now it's sad yeah.

53:38 Yeah you know I still want to keep doing that.

53:40 I still want to get in the trenches but when I'm

53:43 now in the trenches it's not so much of me leading it's

53:45 trying to support the team and really make sure the leader who

53:49 should be running it in the trenches has really the backing there.

53:53 So Building leaders.

53:55 Yeah and it's walking that tightrope of you know I want

53:57 to continue developing other leaders so then they can make the right

54:00 decisions without me being overbearing to where I just move out

54:04 of my way hold my beer you know I'm I'm making the call.

54:06 I'm That's one of the biggest things that I'm really

54:08 focused on trying not to do and really empowering more people.

54:11 And I I believe that the leaders that we have are doing an incredible job.

54:15 So now the next phase is how do I empower them

54:18 to train their leaders to get think at that same level.

54:22 And so that's where the biggest shift that I'm dealing with right now.

54:25 And then the last question from the community number five if I remember

54:28 correctly was how do you make decisions on what to do and not do?

54:32 Like for example when you're innovating the product I'm sure especially

54:35 in tech there's 20 different things you could be doing every day.

54:37 How do you make decisions on like what's let's do this let's not

54:40 do this let's focus on this let's wait till Q2 to do this.

54:43 What's your framework for that or at this point do you have so

54:46 many developers that you just are always

54:48 R&D-ing different features and tinkering with it?

54:50 I'm curious.

54:51 Yeah yeah so you know I'll answer that in kind of a couple different directions.

54:53 You know I was There's stages of it I'm sure.

54:55 Yeah exactly.

54:56 You know I think the first thing is we want to do it all.

54:59 So what would it take to do it all?

55:02 So you kind of lead with that and then when you

55:04 break it down it's back to back to our model of innovating.

55:08 What is the smallest thing that you can put

55:10 out to the world to validate your decision there?

55:13 And if it goes wrong it's okay.

55:16 There's no ramification or anything like that and you

55:18 want to minimize it as much as possible.

55:20 But if it's working what's the next step?

55:22 What's the next iteration?

55:23 What's the next version to keep your test going on forever?

55:26 And so you know what we always say is we

55:28 have so many skateboards out there so so many tests

55:30 that we have and you know we're constantly reviewing what

55:33 are the skateboards that we have and how do we

55:35 either say nope it's just staying as is or let's

55:39 put some more gas behind it whether it's hiring more

55:41 or investing more into the product or what's what what

55:44 can we do to get this out to more people?

55:46 Let's put more investment into it.

55:48 And for me it's how do I keep running

55:50 more activity keep that momentum until we can't anymore.

55:53 Yeah.

55:54 What about and before we wrap up here I have two more questions.

55:56 What about in terms of you know you guys built the company to this scale I'm

55:59 sure you're asked by entrepreneurs all the time

56:01 you know hey Robin what's your advice on this?

56:03 What's your advice on that?

56:04 What's the most common I guess issue that you think

56:07 most entrepreneurs who ask you questions get wrong or maybe aren't

56:10 wrapping their head around cuz I'm sure at your perspective you

56:12 rub elbows with a lot of high level high level people.

56:15 So you see common denominators in how people think and how business owners

56:18 operate what the successful ones do what the not so successful ones do.

56:21 What do you notice are the common denominators

56:23 of the people that succeed at the highest level

56:24 in growing their business versus the ones that kind

56:26 of habitually falter or always stuck for entrepreneurs watching this?

56:30 Yeah I think the you know kind of start

56:32 out on the the positive side of things where

56:34 I've seen the most successful entrepreneurs they're the ones

56:37 that try to simplify things as fast as humanly possible.

56:41 Um because you don't need the the noise along

56:44 the way and honestly you don't have the time for it.

56:46 Where I see the the entrepreneurs that are struggling the most

56:49 they're chasing complexity and they're stuck in this like weird

56:53 world of they feel like their persona or what they're

56:56 known for is this masterful ability to handle the complex yeah.

57:02 Yeah you know like oh I do this and it connects

57:04 into that or you know I work with this team who connects

57:07 with that team to doing this and that like there's just so

57:09 much going on and you know it's like at the dinner party

57:13 you don't be like oh you know we just kind of do

57:14 some simple things or do you want to talk about you know

57:16 how the meat and potatoes work and it's so complex and and it

57:20 feels odd to walk around saying I have something very simple.

57:24 And so I think that's the biggest difference that I see is like the ones

57:28 that are struggling are always getting stuck in the weeds in the wrong places

57:33 and you got to figure out a way to like pull yourself up and look

57:36 at like how do I just get to the outcome as simple as possible.

57:39 I love that.

57:41 And then on a personal note I'm actually

57:42 working with my partner on a fintech product.

57:47 I'm curious what would be your best advice to somebody starting out in tech

57:50 or fintech or software in general in terms of how to think about it.

57:54 I'm sure it comes down to the nuances of the actual business

57:56 model but what are some things that you'd give advice on to me

57:59 and people out there who are maybe launching or starting their own thing

58:01 about you know how to map something out to maximize the odds of success?

58:05 Yeah the first thing is just asking people

58:08 in the space what the biggest problem is and then

58:11 how much you know by you solving that problem

58:15 they would either make or willing to spend.

58:19 And then once you understand that it's how quick can you

58:22 build out a product and just start testing it out there.

58:25 And and then you need to prove it all the way to will someone pay me for it?

58:29 And then if you can answer that question everything else becomes very easy.

58:33 And just keep iterating as you go.

58:34 Yeah which I think more and more companies are

58:36 going to start doing with the advent of AI compared

58:38 to yesteryear where they make it once and then just

58:40 sell it on recurring and just leave it at that.

58:42 Yeah you know what's interesting you know like with the whole

58:45 AI and vibe coding and things like that I think it's awesome.

58:48 Yeah vibe coding yeah yeah yeah.

58:50 You know I think it's awesome and you're

58:52 you're seeing a lot of new potential innovation.

58:55 But you know I think the one thing is that people are constantly

58:58 coding to get to what they perceivably think is like a finished product.

59:04 [clears throat] But they haven't started selling it or they haven't even

59:07 asked people if anyone wants it and what it would take.

59:10 And so until we start seeing that final stage of innovation I think it's going

59:13 to be in this weird world of people

59:15 trying a lot of things and not getting outcome.

59:17 And so that's where I'd recommend to any entrepreneur

59:19 who's potentially vibe coding or trying to build something yeah.

59:22 Just try to make it as small as possible and go out to the world and start

59:25 selling it and start pitching and start getting

59:27 it out there cuz it's a living breathing product.

59:30 You'll have all the time in the world to build,

59:33 but don't waste time if no one wants it.

59:35 Mhm.

59:36 I love that.

59:37 And then last question is for men and women around the world

59:40 who are watching this, they love what you guys have built,

59:42 maybe they either use the product or they're building their own product,

59:45 but they're watching this cuz they have ambitions,

59:47 their own dreams to, you know, build a multi-million dollar business,

59:50 maybe a multi-billion dollar business,

59:51 but maybe they're the young version of Robin who was in the dorm room, right?

59:54 Trying to figure it out, man or woman around the world.

59:56 What would your best advice be to people

59:58 out there if you could look into the camera

59:59 and give your best piece of wisdom to make

1:00:01 their dreams a reality in life and business?

1:00:03 Yeah, don't be scared to to just ask, you know, what someone's problem is.

1:00:09 And you know, do things for me back then it was how just do it,

1:00:14 don't worry about how you're going to get paid.

1:00:16 If you bring good value, you solve people's problems,

1:00:19 they will be more than happy to not only pay you,

1:00:21 but they're if you do such a good job,

1:00:23 they're going to throw their wallet at you and just say keep going.

1:00:25 Yeah.

1:00:26 I love that.

1:00:27 And where can people check out GoHighLevel if they want to learn more about it?

1:00:31 Yeah, I mean it easy enough you can find me at robin@gohighlevel.com.

1:00:35 You can check out gohighlevel.com.

1:00:37 Um and I'm sure, you know,

1:00:38 in the videos we'll have links to it as well that you can find.

1:00:40 Yeah, we'll put a link down below.

1:00:41 Give you guys a special bonus for signing up with our link actually.

1:00:43 We got a 30-day um free trial so they can check it out themselves.

1:00:47 there you go.

1:00:47 And you know, the fun thing is, you know,

1:00:49 with that we'll also have you come on to a Zoom call and we'll give you,

1:00:53 you know, our whole team who will actually be able to help you get set up.

1:00:56 Awesome, brother.

1:00:57 Thank you so much, Robin.

1:00:57 I appreciate that.

1:00:59 Guys, thank you for watching.

1:01:00 Make sure to check out HighLevel and get

1:01:02 your own platform and business growing today on their software.

1:01:06 Trust me, it is amazing.

1:01:07 As always, live strong, live with passion,

1:01:09 and we'll see you guys in the next inspiring episode.

1:01:12 Oh, and make sure to subscribe.

1:01:14 We'll see you guys in the next video.