Trump's Plan to Rig the Midterms with the Supreme Court

0:00 Welcome to Pod Save America.

0:01 I'm Dan Pfeiffer.

0:02 Jon is out of town today,

0:03 so I am delighted to have with me the one and only Alex Wagner.

0:06 Alex, thanks for doing this.

0:07 Oh, what a thrill, Dan.

0:09 I love when Jon goes out of town.

0:10 It is a thrill.

0:12 People people are cheering that Jon that you were here instead of Jon.

0:14 It was We want Jon to be able to travel at a moment's notice.

0:18 You know, there's the it's a big country that needs a lot of Jon Favreau,

0:21 so I'm happy to be a pale pale imitation of him.

0:25 Not not at all.

0:26 Not an improvement, many would say.

0:28 Okay.

0:29 We've got a lot to talk about on today's show.

0:31 Pete Hegseth is on the hill trying to defend a war nobody wants.

0:34 Trump is laser-focused on his grudges and perceived

0:36 enemies like Jimmy Kimmel and Jim Comey.

0:39 We've got a huge Supreme Court decision in the Voting

0:41 Rights Act and Maine Governor Janet Mills dropping her Senate bid,

0:44 as well as a possible reboot of The Apprentice.

0:47 Then Tommy talks to Iowa Senate candidate Zach Walls.

0:50 Before we get to all of that, I just want to say

0:52 thank you to every single one of you who have become subscribers.

0:55 For those of you who haven't, what are you waiting for?

0:57 You know my pitch.

0:59 You know how important it is

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1:19 Okay, let's get to the news.

1:20 The conservative super PAC Americans for Prosperity

1:23 released a memo on Thursday warning that Republicans may lose the Senate if

1:27 they don't sharpen their affordability message because,

1:29 according to their polling,

1:30 Democrats are now more trusted on prices in the economy.

1:33 So, is Donald Trump taking that advice?

1:35 Not so much.

1:36 He spent this week laser-focused on one of his least popular programs,

1:40 his vengeance tour against his political enemies.

1:43 Let's start with Jim Comey.

1:44 The FBI announced on Tuesday that it had

1:46 secured a second indictment against the former FBI director,

1:49 this time for, quote, making threats against the president

1:52 in a 2025 Instagram post featuring seashells.

1:56 Here's Trump trying to explain this in the Oval Office on Wednesday.

1:59 Do you really think that he was endangering

2:00 your life or threatening your life with that move?

2:02 Well, if anybody knows anything about crime, they know 86.

2:08 You know what 86 is?

2:09 It's a mob term for kill them.

2:11 People like Comey have created tremendous danger,

2:14 I think, for politicians and others.

2:17 Now, he's a dirty cop.

2:18 He's a crooked man.

2:19 Yeah.

2:19 Alex, can you explain this indictment?

2:21 First of all, I just want to say as someone who's worked in restaurants,

2:23 86 means hold the mayo or whatever.

2:25 86 mayo, 86 the chicken parm.

2:28 It does not mean kill the chicken parm.

2:30 Just saying.

2:30 Okay.

2:30 See, this is an important You are Jim Comey should hire you as his attorney.

2:34 Well, I don't even think Jim Comey really needs an attorney here cuz I am I

2:37 am I'm fairly confident that this is going to get dismissed, but what do I know?

2:41 I just play a lawyer on TV and podcasts.

2:43 Um Dan, you will remember the last ill-fated attempt this administration

2:47 made it in criminally finding Jim Comey guilty of any crimes.

2:51 That was the indictment secured, and I put that in quotes,

2:56 by unlawfully appointed prosecutor Lindsey Halligan

2:59 representing the Eastern District of Virginia.

3:02 The judge in that case concluded that Halligan's indictment of Comey,

3:06 which sought to find him guilty of lying to both

3:09 Congress and this I believe the Senate Judiciary Committee,

3:12 the judge tossed that indictment out because Ms.

3:15 Halligan was unlawfully appointed to her post.

3:18 Therefore, all matters flowing from that appointment were equally unlawful.

3:23 It was clownish.

3:25 But, I do think the the term beclowned itself belongs in this indictment

3:30 because it is so foolish as to make clowns look like serious people.

3:35 Um I just First of all, if you've read the indictment, it's like it's so short.

3:40 It's a page.

3:41 And this is how it goes.

3:42 Just Can I read a little excerpt of it because Yes.

3:45 On or about May 15th, 2025 in the Eastern District of North Carolina,

3:49 James Brian Comey did knowingly and willfully a threat to take the life

3:54 of and to inflict bodily harm upon the president of the United

3:57 States in that he publicly posted a photograph on the internet social media

4:02 site Instagram which depicted seashells arranged in a pattern making out 86 47.

4:10 47 being Trump's num- the number of Trump's second presidency.

4:15 8647 which a reasonable recipient who is familiar

4:19 with the circumstances would interpret as a serious

4:22 expression of an intent to do harm to the president of the United States.

4:25 To which I say prosecutors, would a reasonable recipient interpret a seashell

4:32 message on the beach as a serious

4:33 expression of an intent to do harm to the president of the United States?

4:36 It seems to me, Dan, and again, I'm not a lawyer,

4:39 but if you have the word seashells in your indictment, you're already losing.

4:44 Uh Comey Comey has said he did not

4:47 actually even arrange the seashells that he saw them

4:50 on the beach and took a post picture of them

4:52 posted the them to Indigra- Instagram which makes me say,

4:57 will the real beach mob boss please stand up?

5:01 Yes, like who is this person and will they come forward today or are

5:04 they going to let Jim Comey take the fall for their sand art?

5:09 This whole thing is this thing is so embarrassing.

5:11 It's it's ridiculous.

5:13 Like no one can actually possibly believe

5:15 that this was a real threat that Jim Comey

5:17 is making a real threat even no matter

5:18 how you interpret the number 86, it is ridiculous.

5:23 Like I guess I did I will say I

5:25 have wondered what was going to happen to, you know,

5:28 like kidnappers and serial killers used to cut out letters from magazines.

5:32 Like how are they were going to survive in the post

5:34 in the death in the in a world after the death of print media?

5:38 And the answer is seashells.

5:41 Can Can I say also the bar here is really high.

5:44 Like there are previous cases that have been adjudicated at like very

5:47 high levels of our judicial system that give a lot of leeway

5:51 for free speech for you know including expressions of of real intentional

5:57 harm directed in the directed toward the President of the United States.

6:01 And in North Carolina I believe the criminal statute says

6:04 that threats fall outside of protected speech only if they show

6:08 the speaker had a reckless disregard for the strong likelihood

6:12 that his listeners would be incited to do harm to the President.

6:14 I mean I'm sorry.

6:16 Reckless disregard and beachcombing don't go together.

6:20 It's this I mean this is embarrassing.

6:22 This is like they are so scraping the bottom of the barrel in order

6:26 to uh fulfill Trump's desire for Jim Comey to see the inside of a jail cell.

6:31 Like it is embarrassing.

6:32 There are some reports today as well that they are in Virginia trying

6:36 to make another run at Comey this time on for leaking information from Congress.

6:41 We'll see what we'll see what happens there but like it's embarrassing.

6:45 Can I just say if you haven't been paying attention to what is happening

6:50 inside the Department of Justice at the level of the US Attorneys you should.

6:55 Jeffrey Toobin has an op-ed in the New York

6:56 Times this week detailing some of the absolutely clownish

6:59 people who are being tasked with carrying out this clownish

7:03 these clownish endeavors and they're literally like right-wing podcasters.

7:06 I mean there's a right-wing podcaster that's in charge of the FBI so

7:08 Yes exactly.

7:09 Right.

7:10 And these people are so utterly unserious that I

7:13 would I would say everybody gird your loins because

7:16 there's going to be more of this coming down

7:18 the pike for as long as Trump's controlling the DOJ.

7:21 I mean let's not look down our nose

7:23 at podcasters taking high-level government positions just for the record.

7:26 when you are Secretary of State we'll all

7:28 say what a great turn of events that was.

7:30 there there are I'm unlikely to get

7:33 a an appointment in any subsequent administration

7:35 but I would suggest that Secretary of State is quite low on the list.

7:38 That's where you draw the line.

7:39 I mean I can find many other cabinet agencies that you would be fit to I

7:42 mean compare especially compared to I don't know

7:45 literally every single appointee in the Trump administration.

7:47 That's fair.

7:47 Fair enough.

7:48 But I digress.

7:48 These are clownish people doing clownish

7:50 things and hopefully our judicial system

7:52 will continue to do the important work that it's doing by dismissing them.

7:55 Trump is also trying to take down Jimmy Kimmel again.

7:58 As we talked about on Tuesday's show,

8:00 the White House is pretending to be big mad about a joke

8:02 Kimmel made days before the correspondents

8:04 dinner about Melania being an expectant widow.

8:07 The FCC has now launched an early review of all of ABC's broadcast licenses.

8:12 They said this was part of a longer running anti-DEI investigation,

8:16 but the context is pretty clear.

8:17 And the White House communication director did tweet

8:20 that Kimmel is a quote human being and that ABC

8:23 needs to fire him immediately and he should be shunned for the rest of his life.

8:27 Alex, what is going on here with the FCC?

8:29 Is this a real threat?

8:30 Well, I mean, yeah, it's a real threat in so

8:33 far as that Disney's going to have to comply.

8:35 If the FCC can do this, right?

8:37 It's difficult.

8:37 It's an unusual process, but they can absolutely do this and they can

8:41 make life expensive and challenging for Disney and its

8:44 affiliates as they seek to gum up the works

8:47 and throw sand in the in the machinery.

8:49 Um and it is I think an escalatory move

8:53 from the last time the FCC took on ABC and Jimmy Kimmel,

8:56 which was just to pull him off the air.

8:58 Uh and I don't think it's a good development in terms of our democracy

9:02 and the first amendment and the freedom of the press and freedom of speech.

9:05 So I I I mean, I think it's definitely problematic.

9:07 I think though this time is a little bit different.

9:11 First of all, Disney I think learned its lesson when

9:14 everybody a lot of people who are Disney Plus subscribers

9:17 started canceling their subscriptions outraged over Disney uh pulling Kimmel

9:22 off the air for a week or however long it was.

9:25 And I think also these networks are

9:27 understanding that if you allow an administration

9:30 to terrorize you based on a whatever

9:34 joke said on one of your broadcast networks,

9:37 that is both the end of television and comedy.

9:40 And neither of those things is good for business if

9:42 you're a broadcast network or a tele- or an entertainment network.

9:45 So, I think there's more I would hope there's

9:48 new more fight in Disney's belly this time around.

9:51 And I think an early indicator of the changed

9:55 dynamics is the posture of the National Association of Broadcasters,

9:58 which released a statement on I think it was Wednesday,

10:01 saying effectively what the FCC is doing here is bogus.

10:04 And if it wants to do this to Disney ABC,

10:07 then we're all, you know, that that equally affects us.

10:10 So, uh um you know, an opening salvo against

10:15 Disney is an opening salvo against all of us, which I think is the you know,

10:18 it's it's it's a hopeful sign that corporate America

10:22 has learned some lessons since 2025 when everybody was taking

10:26 the knee to Donald Trump and his winged monkeys

10:28 as they sought to terrorize them and encourage them to be,

10:31 you know, pledge allegiance to um uh Donald Trump.

10:36 Yeah, I mean, I I think in the end of the day nothing

10:38 bad is going to happen to ABC here other than that, like you said,

10:41 they're going to have to work a little harder

10:42 to get get a result they were going to get anyway.

10:44 But, there is a chilling effect from this sort of action from the FCC.

10:49 It sends a message.

10:50 And it like if you're Jimmy Kimmel and you're ABC,

10:53 you feel pretty good about what's going to happen here.

10:55 You have the power to fight back.

10:57 If you're a smaller network, you may not.

10:59 If you're someone who does not have Jimmy Kimmel's clout,

11:02 I mean, Jimmy Kimmel's basically known as the mayor of Hollywood.

11:04 He's so popular.

11:05 Then, it could cause you to think twice

11:08 before you say certain things or do certain things.

11:11 Or it could cause the executives at smaller networks

11:14 or maybe networks who have more in front of Trump, like at Paramount, right,

11:19 who have more stake in what the Trump

11:20 administration does than ABC does to, you know,

11:24 take it, you know, kill a story, right?

11:26 The thing is, you know, the we know about the the that happen or the stories

11:31 that happen or the comments that happen that then get some response.

11:34 Yeah.

11:34 What we don't know about are the stories and the jokes

11:36 that don't happen because people are afraid of the response.

11:39 And that is ultimately what Ben Shapiro is trying to do here.

11:41 Can I say though, I think there

11:42 is one reality that corporate America is particularly

11:46 and and increasingly acutely aware of, which

11:48 is the house is likely to change hands.

11:51 And the Senate could change hands.

11:52 And 2028 isn't that far off if you're a corporate

11:55 um executive who looks at things in multi-year uh forecasts.

12:00 And the reality is that they these Paramount is a great example.

12:04 They have so alienated themselves from the party that is likely

12:08 to take power at least in the legislative branch in the coming year,

12:11 that they have some work to do.

12:12 And the more they make these arrangements with the Trump administration,

12:16 the more they do the bidding, the more they're going to have to go to the hill

12:19 and testify as to how this isn't uh corrupt practice.

12:22 You know, and I think that they're going

12:23 to have to they I think they understand that there's

12:25 going to be a call for some accountability

12:26 on this, which I do think is why you have, for example, you know,

12:30 Paramount has done everything bent over backwards for this administration.

12:34 But Nora O'Donnell who is on CBS, who is which you know, as part of 60 Minutes,

12:40 has asked Trump some probably of the toughest questions

12:44 that any journalist has asked him in the last

12:46 month relating to his role in the Epstein files

12:49 in the wake of the White House correspondent shooting.

12:51 So, I think or attempted shooting.

12:52 I mean, I just think I'm not like a corporate stooge here, Dan.

12:56 I'm I'm not sugge- I'm not suggesting that.

12:58 No, but I'm saying this Despite this long defense of corporate America.

13:01 My storied defense of the C-suite, but I do think, you know,

13:05 there are financial realities that are going to come into play here.

13:08 And Trump is a lame duck not just politically speaking,

13:11 but in terms of business, at some point he becomes dead weight.

13:14 And these kinds of fights are only going to I mean,

13:17 I think you can only you can only wage them on Trump's

13:21 behalf for so long before you're actually putting yourself in harm's way.

13:23 Yeah, I I think that I think that's true.

13:25 I think hopefully people are beginning to realize that.

13:28 There will will we're going to get to an exception

13:30 on this later in the podcast when it comes to the Amazon corporation,

13:34 but if you even take the Norah O'Donnell uh

13:37 report like the Norah O'Donnell, she did a good job.

13:38 She asked the tough questions.

13:40 She like these that was an uncomfortable situation

13:42 to be in and she persevered through it.

13:44 The but there is a report today that CBS

13:48 really edited out a bunch of sort of Trump nonsense.

13:52 You know there was that that the term everyone was using and be back

13:55 in the day it was like sane washing to make him sound more normal

13:58 and but there's a apparently a lot according to this one report a lot

14:02 of stuff that would have been not good for Trump that did not get in that.

14:06 You know, is that because that was a legitimate journalistic decision about

14:10 how to fit this interview into this you know, the allotted chunk?

14:14 Is it because they have already been sued by Trump for various editing issues?

14:18 I look forward to hearing about that lawsuit.

14:21 When will Kamala Harris sue CBS for whatever $38

14:25 million because it's deemed election interference in the 2028 election?

14:30 I digress.

14:30 Honestly, that would be one of the best things she has done since the election.

14:34 It would be very popular.

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17:03 There's also been a lot of back

17:04 and forth lately about Fed Chairman Jerome Powell.

17:07 The DOJ recently dropped its bogus investigation into him

17:10 over the re- renovation of the Fed building.

17:14 Not only is Powell not going to trial,

17:16 he's rewarding Trump's effort by sticking around the building longer.

17:19 Let's take a listen.

17:20 After my term as chair ends on May 15,

17:23 I will continue to serve as a governor for a period of time to be determined.

17:27 These legal actions by the administration

17:29 are unprecedented in our 113-year history,

17:32 and there are ongoing threats of additional such actions.

17:36 I worry that these attacks are battering the institution.

17:39 I will not leave the board until this investigation

17:42 is well and truly over with transparency and finality, and I stand by that.

17:47 Trump, of course, responded on Truth Social, "Jerome, too late pal,

17:50 wants to stay at the Fed cuz he can't get a job anywhere else.

17:53 Nobody wants him." Alex,

17:55 did you ever think that Jerome Powell would be the hero we were waiting for?

17:58 Is his decision really a big deal?

18:00 Oh, yeah.

18:01 I mean, listen, I think Jerome Powell,

18:03 and I I know this sounds pretty like heavy-handed, but I do think he represents,

18:07 as we talk about uh like resistance 2.0 he's

18:12 the face of a different kind of resistance warrior,

18:16 which is someone who otherwise a Jerome Powell bobblehead?

18:18 I I mean, it's still at the factory, Dan.

18:21 It takes a minute because of the Strait

18:22 of Hormuz of Hormuz closures and slow down bobblehead production.

18:25 on the other side of the strait right now, and it cannot get to you.

18:27 I understand.

18:28 I'm waiting.

18:28 I do check religiously every day.

18:31 But, Jerome Powell, you know, his refusal to go quietly into the night,

18:36 I think really has provided a template for many other kind of conservative,

18:41 institutionalist who would never stick their necks out to say,

18:46 "Fuck no." And the fact that he is refusing to leave

18:49 as a governor of the Fed is a real you to Trump,

18:52 who, you know, I mean, and also a I who knew Jerome Powell was this tenacious?

18:56 Like, what a pain in the ass it must be to be Jerome Powell, right?

18:59 Like, the dude doesn't need to work again.

19:01 I mean, and he certainly could get another job,

19:03 but the fact that he is sitting there largely to be a thorn

19:06 in Trump's side and show to the incoming director of the Fed,

19:10 Kevin Warsh, what resistance and an independent autonomous body looks like,

19:15 that is super important.

19:16 And like, hats off to you Jerome Powell on angel's wings.

19:20 Go get it.

19:21 Yeah, I mean, it's the reason why it's specifically important is it

19:25 denies Trump another vacancy on the Fed board Yes, and that, too.

19:29 And this I think this has a couple things.

19:30 One, he Jerome Powell knows how knows how power is deployed and how to use it.

19:34 And this gives him leverage over Trump for the investigation

19:38 cuz the original investigation was dropped because Tom Tillis would

19:42 not approve Kevin Warsh as the next Fed chair until

19:45 the investigation into Jerome Powell was dropped by the DOJ.

19:50 The fact that you can just drop the investigation at the whim of a senator

19:54 suggests it was not that serious investigation

19:55 to begin with, but of course we knew that.

19:57 And it also I think says something

19:59 about how Jerome Powell feels about Kevin Warsh,

20:01 or at least some fears that Kevin Warsh is might be

20:05 more of a Trump stooge than he suggested in his hearings.

20:10 Um, and so he wants to be there to keep an eye on him.

20:12 So, I think hats off to Jerome Powell.

20:14 This is Jerome Powell, we salute you.

20:16 Really, honestly, get Tony De Coppola on the line.

20:18 Can I say one other thing?

20:20 And that is don't forget that Jerome Powell was appointed by Donald Trump.

20:24 Yes, he was.

20:24 So, maybe whatever magic, you know,

20:26 Jerome Powell has in his fingertips can be uh sprinkled

20:30 onto Kevin Warsh as he takes the reins of the Fed.

20:33 Well, from your from your lips to Kevin Warsh's ears.

20:36 Okay.

20:37 One last thing on the Department of Justice.

20:39 As we've discussed, Trump is trying to use

20:41 the Correspondents Dinner attack to justify building his ballroom,

20:44 which is his true passion project.

20:47 The Department of Justice filed a brief on Monday asking

20:50 a judge to dismiss the lawsuit that's holding up construction.

20:53 Alex, I think you noted that the language

20:54 in the filing was a bit unusual, so to speak.

20:58 Um, what do you know?

20:59 Well, can I just read you a little little excerpt from this?

21:02 For people who haven't, you would be

21:04 second legal document reading of this podcast.

21:07 I play I play Andrew Weissman on this podcast.

21:09 Watch out watch out for strict scrutiny.

21:12 Watch out Kate Shaw, Leah Litman, Melissa Murray.

21:16 Okay, this this filing is like I mean literally it was dictated by Donald Trump

21:22 if not actually written by Donald Trump

21:23 and then just printed out on DOJ letterhead.

21:26 Like here's some of the language in it relating to the ballroom.

21:28 If any other president had the ability,

21:30 foresight or talents necessary to build this ballroom

21:34 which will be one of the greatest, safest and most secure structures of its kind

21:38 anywhere in the world capital W on world, there would never have been a lawsuit.

21:43 But because it is all caps Donald J.

21:45 Trump a highly successful real estate developer

21:48 who has abilities that others don't especially

21:50 those who assume the office of president

21:53 this frivolous and meritless lawsuit was filed.

21:56 Again, it's called all caps Trump derangement syndrome.

22:00 On top of everything else this project is a gift

22:02 to our country from President Trump and other donors.

22:05 It is free of charge to the American taxpayer.

22:07 Who could ever object to that?

22:09 A lot of title case in there that I didn't get

22:11 into cuz it just is was becoming too much but clearly

22:15 you know if you're wondering whether Todd Blanche wants to be

22:17 attorney general this kind of thing is the only proof you need

22:20 and if you want were wondering if literally the dumbest people

22:23 in the world maybe now populating our Department of Justice here's confirmation

22:27 that the dumbest people in the people in the world are

22:30 perverting our justice system to be an ego boost for Donald Trump.

22:35 I guess the best thing I can say about Donald Trump

22:38 is that his desire for the ballroom is his most authentic self.

22:45 Like it is like it is still remains wild to me that after someone

22:51 brought a gun to potentially try

22:52 to assassinate Donald Trump his first instinct right?

22:56 Like a more magnanimous person would call for national unity,

23:00 call for the toning down of political rhetoric.

23:03 Would look inward at perhaps the things they had said,

23:07 the way they'd celebrated the deaths of his of their political enemies,

23:09 the riot they sparked at the at the Capitol,

23:14 the calls for the hanging of the vice president.

23:16 Would have done those things.

23:17 Or a cynical person would use it to advance

23:20 their like their political agenda in some way, shape, or form.

23:24 And instead, they used Trump used that moment to push for the ballroom.

23:29 Cuz that is the thing he truly wants more than anything else.

23:31 It's the thing he cares about, the thing he's obsessed with.

23:35 Um it is very, very strange.

23:37 It is quite unpopular.

23:38 It is a gift to Democrats.

23:40 It is just like a like God bless him for doing it.

23:43 I hope he does it all the time.

23:44 I hope he runs a ballroom fall campaign.

23:47 I hope he tours ballrooms in the battleground states.

23:50 I hope he brings swing voters to a round table

23:53 where they discuss the marble to be used in the ballroom.

23:56 I hope they do all of those things.

23:58 Like more ballroom, the better Donald Trump.

24:00 Uh just to note to the point of how unpopular it is,

24:03 the Washington Post is out with a poll

24:05 today showing Americans reject Donald Trump's planned ballroom,

24:09 I believe by a two-to-one margin, Dan.

24:12 It's pretty good.

24:13 It's pretty good.

24:14 He's not going to let He's not going to let

24:15 the public stand in the way of his ballroom.

24:17 No sir.

24:17 Or reason, financial, politics, reason, law,

24:22 none of it will stand in the way of this ballroom.

24:24 Speaking of affordability,

24:25 Pete Hegseth was on the hill on Thursday for a second day of testimony defending

24:29 a war that has now driven the price of gas to an average of $4.30 a gallon.

24:34 Of course, Hegseth was his typically modest and contrite self.

24:37 Here's a sampling.

24:38 Many congressional Democrats, as I pointed out,

24:40 want to declare defeat two months in.

24:43 Iraq took how many years?

24:45 Afghanistan took how many years?

24:46 And they were nebulous missions that people went along with.

24:49 This is different.

24:50 The biggest adversary we face at this point are the reckless,

24:55 feckless, and defeatist words of congressional Democrats and some Republicans.

25:01 Can I speak or are you just going

25:02 to monologue falsehoods all all over the place?

25:04 It's not a falsehood.

25:06 7,500 troops off of the base based on Stop.

25:09 When President Trump was elected because you, please.

25:12 Well, again, that's another important thing.

25:14 It's what's happening.

25:15 It's yet another gotcha hypothetical, which is your specialty.

25:19 Tell the American people, will you deploy the uniform military

25:23 to our polls to collect voter rolls or machines?

25:27 Are you Are you accusing me of performing

25:28 cuz you're performing for cable news right now?

25:32 What stood out to you from these two days

25:33 of hearings and how do you think Democrats did overall?

25:36 Um you know, I love these Hill hearings.

25:40 I I I is is is frust- Well, just because they were I mean,

25:44 if you needed any more evidence that this is a group

25:47 of idiots and stooges and corrupt actors who populate the president's you will.

25:51 It's a title cat together again.

25:53 And by the way, it's like it's a curse actually going up to the Hill

25:57 because you see who's gone up

25:58 and like they've been summarily dismissed shortly thereafter.

26:01 And Hegseth is always on thin ice, right?

26:03 I mean, Bondi, Noem, now Hegseth.

26:06 Amazing that this is the first testimony that he's given in the 60

26:09 days of this war or near 60 days of this war.

26:11 I was struck by his impertinence.

26:14 I mean, duh, but but it is so galling in a moment when a war is being

26:20 conducted at the expense of the American taxpayer

26:22 in America's name and is killing American service members.

26:26 The idea that you as a Secretary of Defense would go up there

26:29 and have an attitude towards lines of questioning about how much the war cost,

26:33 that you wouldn't be transparent about how American

26:35 lives have been lost and would just offhandedly

26:38 mention that there was a 14th casualty as if that that that wasn't a big deal,

26:42 a 14th American casualty, I I should say.

26:45 And and and just utterly, you know,

26:49 refuse to recognize that the people who decide whether any of this is worth it,

26:53 the people who decide whether they want to pay

26:56 for it are not the not the Secretary of War, not the Secretary of Defense.

27:01 It's the American people, and these are their elected representatives asking

27:04 legitimate lines of questions about what what's happening.

27:07 And I I just I mean I think it's it's all but this in particular,

27:12 this war is so and so not what the American

27:15 public wants that to not even begin to try

27:18 and sell it or explain what is happening is such

27:21 a betrayal of the sort of foundational parts of our democracy.

27:25 And the other piece of it I would say, Dan,

27:27 is just the corruption inside that Pentagon is really obvious, right?

27:30 Like there are two lines of questioning today when he's up at the Senate,

27:34 he's asked or actually I think yesterday as well.

27:37 He was asked about his special advisor Tim Parlatore,

27:41 the president's former personal lawyer,

27:43 who is clearly representing either unsavory people

27:47 or foreign actors in his private law practice,

27:49 but now through a sleight of hand is a senior

27:52 advisor at the Pentagon and has access to classified information.

27:56 Heggseth knows this is a liability.

27:57 He knows there's something very crooked in all of this and refused

28:01 to really answer any questions or shed light on that arrangement.

28:04 And then Heggseth was asked about from Elizabeth Warren today about stock trades

28:09 that happened right before the Pentagon announced

28:11 we were going to we were attacking Iran.

28:14 And Heggseth refused to answer any questions about people inside the DoD who

28:18 might be profiting off of Trump's catastrophic war in the Middle East in Iran.

28:24 Um there's so much bad stuff happening at the Pentagon,

28:28 it's hard to know where to begin.

28:29 This hearing it tells you something you see in the press conferences, too,

28:33 that Heggseth does, which is that in his mind he is not accountable to Congress,

28:37 he's not accountable to the Senate that approved his nomination,

28:40 he's not accountable to the American people,

28:41 he's not accountable to the Constitution.

28:43 He is accountable only to Donald Trump and no one else.

28:46 And the way in which he like this is all a performance for Trump.

28:50 That is who it is for.

28:51 That is what he is trying to do.

28:52 He's trying He knows he is on He's kind of on thin ice

28:56 because Trump has repeatedly pointed out

28:58 that going to war was Pete Hoekstra's idea,

29:00 which is usually the sign that Donald Trump is

29:01 looking for someone to take blame for an unpopular idea.

29:04 He knows like he definitely knows down deep in that very

29:09 vacuous soul of his that he is totally in over his head.

29:15 Like he is pretty He's trying so hard not to look like he

29:18 is scared shitless that he looks scared shitless to be in this job.

29:23 I do This is not an important part,

29:24 but I do think it's funny that in that part where he declares like this should

29:27 not be watched over that the greatest

29:29 adversary the American military faces is not Iran,

29:33 it's not or some of Iran's allies around the world

29:36 who are helping them in this war like Russia.

29:39 It is Democratic members of Congress for their rhetoric.

29:43 But in doing that What is the best part about that is is that it He says

29:47 in there at this point as if like

29:49 they went through the testimony and they were like,

29:51 "Look, we need a caveat in here just in case another threat emerges.

29:54 We must say at this point." Like it is It's

29:57 been The whole thing is bananas every time he speaks.

29:59 It is like it is an embarrassment to the Pentagon,

30:04 to the country, to the troops who must who serve at his command.

30:08 It is just It is It is terrible.

30:11 It is terrible terrible.

30:12 thought it was great that the Democrats I mean,

30:15 it's not that these people happen to be on these committees,

30:17 so it's not like they were championed by leadership,

30:19 but that that you had so many veterans who know from combat,

30:22 whether it's Mark Kelly and Elissa Slotkin or Jason Crow,

30:25 who were incredibly tenacious.

30:27 Pat Ryan, yeah.

30:27 Pat Ryan.

30:29 These people know what war is and they know what the battlefield is.

30:32 And for them to be going after in really pointed

30:35 and I think emotional like they're they're clearly very angry.

30:38 For them to be exasperated and outraged um with Hexseth,

30:42 I think is meaningful and it's also

30:44 a different side of the Democratic Party, right?

30:46 Like we just the tent is so big, but you know, you can be I don't know.

30:51 I think it's a good moment for Democrats when that is the sort of juxtaposition.

30:55 You know, everyone has been, you know, Trump ran as the no wars president.

30:59 He's been very very sensitive to the political cost of these wars.

31:04 So there has been this question why did this happen?

31:07 And Ashley Parker and Mike Shear of the Atlantic

31:10 had an incredible piece this week called

31:12 the Yolo presidency that kind of answers the question

31:15 and they quote someone close to Trump saying this.

31:17 He's been talking recently about how he

31:19 is the most powerful person to ever live.

31:21 He wants to be remembered as the one who did things

31:23 that others couldn't do because of his sheer power and force of will.

31:27 This includes a rant according to sources

31:29 in the story Trump doesn't care about losing the house.

31:31 He only slightly worries about losing the Senate

31:33 cuz it would mean a longer impeachment trial.

31:36 What did you think of this piece?

31:38 It's like I think my favorite piece that I read this week.

31:40 It's so it is full bonkers.

31:43 You mentioned that Trump is his full

31:44 self when he's talking about ballroom renovations.

31:46 He's his full self when he's in like home reno mode.

31:49 He is according to this reporting walking around gluing challenge coins,

31:54 those military commemorative coins.

31:56 He's gluing challenge coins to the doors of the White House

31:59 to various offices in in the administration in in the White

32:02 House like like an old grandpa just like dusting off

32:07 his fishing rods to put on display in the garage.

32:10 I mean it's literally the idea that Trump has just

32:15 has forsaken political reality and doesn't give a about the midterms

32:19 or the legislative branch and instead thinks of himself as a man

32:24 who is embarked on a great mission ala Alexander the Great,

32:28 Napoleon, and Julius Caesar.

32:30 Those are the three great men mentioned in this piece.

32:32 Like first of all, I guarantee you that Julius Caesar, Alexander the Great,

32:36 and Napoleon Bonaparte could get the Strait of Hormuz open, okay?

32:40 They're like the greatest military tacticians in world history.

32:44 The idea that Trump puts himself on that level is both deluded and dangerous,

32:50 and it should inform our thinking about any kind

32:52 of {quote} strategy that comes from this White House, right?

32:56 It is a cult.

32:57 It is no longer you know, he's not the head of a party.

33:01 He's just I mean he is in the worst way,

33:04 in the way that dictators care only about their legacy and no longer

33:07 about the country or the republic or whatever it is that they're governing.

33:10 That's Trump.

33:12 I mean it's it's There's he doesn't care

33:16 about the he did apparently didn't care about

33:17 his running mate in 2024 cuz he said at one point in the article, "Who cares?

33:21 I'll be dead.

33:22 I don't care about what happens to MAGA after." I mean,

33:24 just think about that as the organizing principle.

33:27 Next time you wonder why Trump's doing that something that's so obviously can't

33:31 is going to disable his party

33:32 in the coming midterms or 2028 presidential elections.

33:35 I mean it's it is a great piece.

33:37 Mike and Ashley are top-notch.

33:39 They're with the post for a long time, now at the Atlantic.

33:41 Now they are they're true they're great reporters and great writers.

33:44 The the funny part of the piece is

33:45 it begins with this rhetorical question about whether

33:48 Trump has been reading the works of Hegel

33:50 because of Hegel's theory of world historical individuals,

33:53 like sort of great man theory.

33:55 And obviously Mike and Ashley don't think

33:58 that Trump is doing that, but in the piece

34:00 it says like they asked a some Trump aides if he'd been reading Hegel,

34:04 and they all sort of laughed with the idea that Trump's not much of a reader,

34:08 which I know we know that, but there just is

34:10 something very concerning about the fact that the president doesn't read.

34:14 Yeah.

34:15 Right?

34:15 He doesn't read books, doesn't read briefings.

34:17 Doesn't Yeah, it doesn't read.

34:19 of reads the New York Times, I guess.

34:20 I mean he scans the headlines.

34:22 Scans he has the human printer print out

34:24 the the headlines that are favorable to him.

34:26 He is an a fundamentally incurious person, but it's more than that.

34:30 The self-absorption has reached true malignant narcissism,

34:33 and we're just along for the ride, Dan.

34:34 We're just along for the ride.

34:36 That's a And what a bumpy ride it's been.

34:38 Yeah, runaway country.

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37:07 Even as Trump is dead set on doing unpopular things

37:09 like focus on the ballroom and the war in Iran,

37:12 the Supreme Court's conservative majority and Florida

37:13 Republicans are riding to his rescue.

37:16 In a ruling on Wednesday,

37:17 the Supreme Court threw out Louisiana's congressional map

37:19 and hollowed out the Voting Rights Act even further.

37:22 Louisiana's Republican governor announced on Thursday that the state will delay

37:25 its House primaries on May 16th in order to redraw the map,

37:28 which could see at least one majority black district drawn out of existence.

37:32 In her dissent, which she read from the bench, Justice Kagan wrote,

37:36 "The court's decision will set back

37:37 the foundational right Congress granted of racial

37:40 equality in electoral opportunity." And said

37:42 that it would have grave consequences.

37:44 Alex, what do you make of this ruling?

37:45 I think the ruling is important because it

37:47 it is a statement from the highest court

37:49 in the land about racism and what the court

37:53 believes about the lawfulness of measures to combat racism, right?

37:58 Effectively, the court says,

37:59 "Gerrymandering is fine if it's partisan gerrymandering.

38:03 Never mind if that partisan gerrymandering has

38:05 explicitly racial and racist undertones." Um Adam

38:09 Serwer writes so um out beautifully and compellingly

38:13 about the court and race in America.

38:16 And his assessment of this, I think, is worth noting.

38:20 Um Serwer states that the the court has ruled that the state is oppressive

38:26 when it interferes with the right to discriminate

38:29 and respects liberty when it allows discrimination.

38:33 And I think that's totally true, right?

38:35 That it's trying to disenfranchise black voters,

38:38 which is exactly what's happening here.

38:40 In the court's eyes, that's not racist.

38:42 But preventing Louisiana from disenfranchising black voters,

38:47 that is racist because it ultimately

38:50 redounds to the disadvantage of white people.

38:52 Like it is so the logic here is so upside down

38:56 and at first of all at odds with how we understand racism in America,

38:59 to say nothing of public opinion.

39:02 Did you know, Dan, that 50% of black America lives in the South?

39:06 I mean, the implications for this are vast, right?

39:09 Like in Louisiana has uh I think a third of the population is black.

39:14 And it's, you know, they're trying to create

39:16 two majority black districts out of six.

39:18 And what the court has done here is just a wholesale inversion of first

39:22 of all what Congress intended in its reauthorization

39:25 of the Voting Rights Act in the 1980s.

39:27 We're not going to get I mean, we don't need to get into this sort

39:29 of intent versus effects piece of this, but nonetheless,

39:32 the Supreme Court, which when convenient defers to Congress,

39:35 has chosen to completely upend correct congressional intention here,

39:39 which is pretty clear,

39:40 in furtherance of a project that began decades ago

39:43 and which Sam Alito and Clarence Thomas and John

39:46 Roberts were all a part of when they were

39:48 young staffers and a young judge during the Reagan years.

39:51 And like the project of unwinding civil rights progress,

39:55 the project of reversing attempts to make

39:58 a more equitable society has long been one

40:01 of the foundational goals of the right-wing movement

40:05 that began in the wake of, you know, the 1960s and 1970s.

40:10 So, like congrats, I guess, to the Roberts Court for doing this.

40:14 This is like a real dismantling of civil rights progress,

40:17 and will have vast repercussions,

40:19 not just electorally and politically, but for our society.

40:22 When you disenfranchise 20% of this country,

40:26 it will also affect Latinos and Asians in states like California.

40:28 When you disenfranchise people of color in this country,

40:31 you have a less representative democracy, you have a less just country,

40:35 you don't have the America that I think we all aspire to.

40:38 There's so much to say about this ruling,

40:39 and I'll get to the political impacts in a second, but John Roberts,

40:43 who has gotten a bit of a um improved reputation over

40:47 the years about some of the the rulings in the tariff case,

40:50 a couple of other anti-Trump ones.

40:52 But long before Trump, John Roberts' main project as Chief Justice was

40:58 the dismantling of the voting Voting Rights Act.

41:00 There are these decisions, Shelby County versus Holder,

41:01 there's Brnovich, there's now this one.

41:03 This has destroyed one of the most important

41:05 pieces of civil rights legislation in American history.

41:07 Like in this, all the headlines are like they hollowed out,

41:10 which I said here, they limited.

41:12 That is that is maybe true in the words that Alito used,

41:16 but in actual practice, they struck down Section 2 as we understand it.

41:21 The ability to Like what was left here is

41:24 they allowed partisan gerrymandering as a principle in Shelby County.

41:28 Now, what they have done is essentially said that the last

41:34 possible way in which you could stop prevent gerrymandering,

41:37 which was designed and inherently always will dilute the power of black voters

41:42 if you were trying to dilute the power of democratic voters in a state.

41:47 The way in which you do that is you dilute

41:48 the population that votes at 80 to 90% for Democrats.

41:52 And so they say they're now saying that is okay, that is what is happening here.

41:55 It has dramatic implications.

41:57 As you say, Louisiana, 30% of its of its population is black,

42:02 they're going to only have one representative at best when this is over.

42:05 In several states like Arkansas, like Alabama, Mississippi,

42:09 are going to after this is all said and done,

42:11 at some point in the future, we'll have no black represent representatives,

42:13 even though they have 30% of their population is black.

42:16 They are going to eliminate the Democratic

42:19 delegations in most southern states because of this.

42:22 They are going to cut down the number of black

42:24 members in uh places like North Carolina and elsewhere.

42:28 And, you know, by some estimates,

42:30 30% of the Congressional Black Caucus would be gone if the Republicans push

42:34 forward with to maximum advantage on a with gerrymandering with these new laws.

42:41 So, the question is, in this midterm, what is the actual impact?

42:45 The Republicans are going to get one more seat out of Louisiana.

42:50 I think they're the We're going to talk in a minute about the math in Florida,

42:52 but this is going This gives more legal

42:54 cover to what's a pretty illegal map in Florida.

42:57 And then, in Tennessee,

42:58 there are a handful of states because this is coming so late in the cycle,

43:02 there is limits to what Republicans can do.

43:03 Many The filing deadlines have passed in all 50 states.

43:06 Many states have held their primaries.

43:07 Other states have held their have not held their primaries,

43:11 but early voting has already started.

43:13 Um and so, it's very like it would create mass chaos

43:16 to do to redraw the maps at this late stage of the game.

43:20 But, there are some places where they can do it.

43:22 Tennessee is one of those places.

43:23 There is one Democratic district in Tennessee.

43:25 Steve Cohen in the Memphis area, I believe, hosts it or represents it.

43:29 The uh Trump spoke to the governor of Tennessee today to get

43:33 try to encourage him to redraw the maps before the election.

43:36 Marsha Blackburn, who is the senator from Tennessee

43:38 who's running for governor in Tennessee, called for this.

43:41 You could see that happening here.

43:43 They could do something similar in Missouri, in South Carolina.

43:46 I'm not sure they'll be able to do that.

43:48 In Georgia, where early voting has started, it started this week, I believe.

43:51 The There are some Republicans calling for a special session to redraw the maps.

43:55 Would Brian Kemp do that?

43:57 I don't know, but you can sort

43:58 of It's going to help Republicans in this election,

44:00 but the longer-term consequence is a house that's going to be less Democratic,

44:06 small d, less Democratic, big D, it's going to be much whiter,

44:09 which one of my Substack subscriber said would

44:10 be like adding white food coloring to mayonnaise.

44:16 Very funny.

44:17 aioli.

44:18 We're not talking aioli.

44:19 We're talking about Hellmann's.

44:20 Yes, we are talking about super white Hellmann's mayonnaise.

44:24 Um and it's just it's like this is terrible

44:26 for democracy and it's going to mean going forward

44:29 a structural advantage for Republicans in the house that is

44:32 akin to the one they currently hold in the Senate.

44:35 Can Democrats take the majority under that scenario?

44:38 Absolutely.

44:39 And we might win enough seats this time to do

44:41 that even under the under a post Supreme Court decision map,

44:45 but it's going to be you're going to need a bigger wave every time to do it.

44:48 It is This is a This is a very, very bad decision in the long run.

44:51 I don't think it's not going to cost us the house this election,

44:54 but it's definitely but it's going to hurt in the long run.

44:56 Can I ask because I'm a loyal message box subscriber?

45:00 Yep.

45:00 Uh a paid subscriber as all true Americans should be.

45:03 Yes, as all true Americans.

45:04 As it and and you're you said it I'll quote you, Dan.

45:08 Pretending we're still playing and message box in the same episode.

45:12 I'll take it.

45:13 dude.

45:13 What do you think?

45:15 You think I'm going to Favreau my way through this?

45:17 I show up when Dan Pfeiffer asked me to be his guest on Pod Save America.

45:21 Yes.

45:22 Pretending we're still playing the old game is

45:24 how we lose the house for a generation.

45:25 Every governor's race, every state legislative chamber,

45:28 every secretary of state contest in 2026 is now a redistricting fight.

45:33 Act accordingly.

45:35 Mic drop.

45:35 Okay.

45:36 Those are good marching orders.

45:38 If you weren't fired up about a secretary

45:40 of state contest in your in your state, get excited cuz it matters.

45:44 And this is going to mean that Democrats across the country are

45:46 going to have to do what Democrats in Virginia and California did,

45:49 which is they're going to have to redraw their maps to maximum effect.

45:52 That's going to mean Illinois, New York,

45:55 Maryland, where there was resistance this time.

45:57 In states that have redistrict

45:59 anti-gerrymandering ballot initiatives or constitutional amendments,

46:02 we should try to undo those if they were in blue states.

46:05 Like this is Sad.

46:06 And The high road.

46:08 I think gerrymandering Gerrymandering is bad.

46:10 It is.

46:11 But we have to do this up until the moment where

46:13 we have enough power to pass a national ban on partisan gerrymandering.

46:18 Like and just worth remembering every single

46:21 Democrat voted for a bill that would

46:24 ban national gerrymandering and every single Republican

46:27 voted against a national ban on gerrymandering.

46:29 So Can I ask something even more explosive than that?

46:32 Yes, of course.

46:33 I know you're looking at Republican uh state houses,

46:35 but what about the Republican Supreme Court?

46:38 Isn't it time to think about this body of This body is

46:42 so under I I understand they are constitutionally outlined to have these powers,

46:47 but what the court is doing is so undemocratic and I

46:50 think Alito and Thomas or Alito or Thomas could retire

46:53 at the end of this uh court term and allow Trump

46:57 to appoint two zygotes and solidify a conservative majority six again,

47:02 the zygotes are are human beings.

47:04 Um and like should there not be

47:07 a conversation if Democrats retake power around court reform?

47:13 Yes, 100%.

47:14 I have I thought that we should have

47:16 undertaken that effort when we had power in 2021.

47:18 Now we didn't have enough uh Democrats to get rid of the filibuster

47:22 to do that and there certainly wasn't support for court expansion,

47:24 but I there like this is one of those things that I

47:28 don't think we need to run on, but well once we do win,

47:31 we should do it, which is like there should we should look at term limits,

47:35 we should look at court expansion, there should obviously be a code of ethics

47:37 for these corrupt who were doing things.

47:40 Like like yes, like there this is a gigantic problem and long after Trump

47:46 has moved on to uh work full-time

47:49 on ballrooms and home reno projects at Mar-a-Lago,

47:52 the his legacy for decades afterwards is going to to us because of this court

47:57 and so every option should be on the table to deal with that.

48:01 If you're wondering how we got to this point where so many

48:03 conservatives populate our federal judiciary and our highest court in the land,

48:07 I have a book coming out this fall that details the rise of all of it,

48:11 which Well, Alex, what's your book called?

48:12 It's called The Steal.

48:15 The Steal.

48:15 And can people pre-order it now?

48:17 I believe they can, although I think I'm supposed to be

48:19 doing some swishy rollout for all of it on in social media.

48:23 But yes, if you Google Alex Wagner, The Steal, I have a cover here somewhere.

48:27 Anyway, it's coming out September 15th, I think.

48:29 I should really Do you know what the number one item

48:32 on everyone's swishy book rollout for liberal political books is?

48:37 What?

48:37 Pod Save America.

48:39 Oh.

48:39 Okay, actually it's Heather Cox Richardson.

48:40 But after Heather Cox Richardson, it's Pod Save America.

48:43 That's this show.

48:44 Yes, you were on it.

48:46 You're not even just guest on it.

48:47 You're hosting it.

48:48 Good lord.

48:49 god.

48:49 This is great.

48:52 Go Google this book.

48:53 Google this

48:53 is the only promotion we're doing for that book on this show,

48:56 but I respect the time that we're allotting to book promotion right now.

49:00 Trust me, as someone who has written three books

49:02 since I've been a a Pod Save America co-host, uh I can I can shake a stick at no

49:07 one's book promotions cuz mine have been quite voluminous.

49:10 And quite I basically annoyed people into uh buying my books, so

49:14 No, you're not You should try it.

49:17 All right, also on Wednesday, just to add to the bad news here,

49:20 Florida advanced its aggressive new congressional map,

49:22 which could net Republicans four seats in the house.

49:24 There's been some speculation that this new

49:26 map will be a quote DeSantis dummymander.

49:29 What do you make of that?

49:30 Um I I I meant to look I meant to look up

49:36 Meatball Ron and whether that was his nickname, and I didn't do it.

49:39 That was a It was a pri- I looked it up.

49:41 It was a private nickname that Trump was reported to use for Ron.

49:44 I'm not I don't know if it ever made it to Truth Social,

49:47 but he it was being reported.

49:49 I expect all bad things to come out of Florida.

49:51 Are you asking me whether I mean like do you

49:53 think do do I think this is going to happen?

49:56 Yes, I think this is going to happen.

49:57 I think we should expect the worst

49:58 craziest to emanate from Ron DeSantis' Florida.

50:01 So, this is no exception.

50:02 Yeah, so a dummy mander is a term of art for when and it's okay.

50:06 No, no, I'm happy to jump in here.

50:08 A dummy mander is a term of art for when

50:10 the new map performs worse than the old map.

50:13 And so, there's some question here because most

50:15 experts thought that DeSantis could add two seats safely.

50:20 And once you add four seats,

50:22 you're at risk of spreading the peanut butter too thin here.

50:26 So, the math of gerrymandering is or redistricting is pretty simple.

50:29 You have a static number of Republican voters.

50:33 To make more Republican districts, you must move them out of safe

50:35 Republican districts and put them into Democratic districts.

50:38 Then you must take those Democratic voters and move

50:40 them from Democratic districts and put them in Republican districts.

50:43 And if you do that poorly, then you put a bunch of seats at risk.

50:48 I don't know if this will be a dummy mander,

50:49 but the seats that the way DeSantis did this is he did

50:55 not shore up the two most vulnerable Republicans in the in Southern Florida.

51:00 And the four new safe seats are probably not even

51:05 going to be ranked as safe by the Cook Political Report.

51:08 They're probably lean Republican at best um or like maybe likely Republican,

51:12 but they're they're going to end up being about

51:14 seats that Trump won plus nine in um 2024.

51:19 And that's within the realm of what is possible for Democrats.

51:22 The other thing here that I think is just worth noting is the we're

51:28 using the 2024 results in Florida as the baseline for how safe these seats are.

51:33 The Trump won Florida by like 13 points.

51:37 And but that was because which is a huge

51:39 margin which is a gigantic margin of what was like

51:41 the prototypical swing state for many many races is Trump

51:46 won because he won Latinos by 13 points in 2024.

51:52 To give you a sense of how nuts that is,

51:54 he only he lost them by five in 2020 and he lost them by 27 in 2016.

52:00 So we're we there was a 40-point swing over

52:04 the last eight years of among Latinos in Florida.

52:09 And there's a mountain of evidence both in polling and in election results

52:13 in Florida and elsewhere that 2024 was an outlier in terms of Latino support.

52:18 So if you really do in the Latino vote

52:20 in Florida is incredibly complicated because it's very diverse.

52:24 Um so it's not you can't just look at numbers

52:27 in other parts of the country and transpose them to Florida.

52:30 But there is there is risk here that if Latinos

52:32 really are swinging back to Democrats if not to 2016

52:35 levels but close to that then some of these seats

52:38 Republicans are counting on may turn out to be Democratic.

52:40 So there's there's some risk here for Meatball.

52:45 Meatball and and and also Mike Johnson, another kind of meatball.

52:50 Another a different a a slimmer meatball more petite meatball.

52:53 A bespectacled meatball.

52:54 I'm not even going to give him slimmer.

52:56 All right.

52:57 as we know Dan Ron DeSantis is a petite man but anyway.

53:00 Yes.

53:01 He's he's he's short and but he will use some lifts

53:05 in his boots to seem a little to improve his stature.

53:08 All right, speaking of elections on Thursday morning Maine Governor Janet Mills

53:12 surprised many by suspending her Senate

53:14 campaign citing a lack of financial resources.

53:17 That paves the way for Grant LaFleur who's

53:19 been consistently around 30 points ahead of Mills

53:21 in the polls to become the presumptive Democratic nominee

53:23 for the Senate seat where he'll face Susan Collins.

53:25 Alex, you and I have talked about the Maine race

53:27 once or twice on some podcasts over the last few months.

53:30 What do you make of Mills's decision to drop out before any votes were cast?

53:34 I mean I just think what are the chances that you and I

53:38 would be recording Pod Save America together

53:41 the day that Janet Mills dropped out.

53:43 It's like someone has it in for me.

53:45 Mea culpa, mea culpa.

53:47 I just want to say, you know,

53:48 I've been talking about Janet Mills not as the great defender of Janet Mills.

53:52 I've just been asking some questions and not in the vein of Tucker Carlson

53:55 about the way we talk about women with experience who are older and just,

54:00 you know, whether in fact, Grant Plummer,

54:03 who is a incredibly dynamic uh political figure who has

54:08 run a really interesting um I would say innovative campaign,

54:12 uh but whether that's going to pass muster with the crazy Mainers who

54:16 are going to decide whether Susan Collins is going back to the Senate, right?

54:19 So, I'm just asking questions.

54:21 Now, it is unquestionable that like Democratic primary voters

54:26 wanted Grant Plummer to be the nominee and I think,

54:29 you know, he clearly earned it.

54:30 The fact that Janet Mills came into the race the way that she did and I

54:34 know you have lots of thoughts on this uh with DSCC backing and Chuck Schumer,

54:37 you know, tells you and and you wrote a message box about this.

54:40 I don't want to I don't want to encroach on your uh in lanes.

54:43 Feel free to quote from it if you'd like to.

54:45 Well, I didn't I didn't think it was I I I

54:48 I didn't I ran out of cut paste room on my document.

54:51 Yes.

54:51 That's fair enough.

54:54 You know, it says a lot about the state

54:55 of play inside the party and what, you know,

54:58 the liabilities attached to institutionalists and uh the the desire for new

55:03 blood and a new DNA uh and I get that, you know,

55:08 I I I am a worrier and I do worry.

55:13 I mean, Susan Collins is been thus far She is the our iron lady, right?

55:21 Isn't that what they called Thatcher?

55:23 Um and, you know, she has a special place in my heart for her vote putting

55:27 Brett Kavanaugh over the top as she claimed

55:29 there would nothing bad would happen to Roe v.

55:31 Wade.

55:33 She's betrayed her label as a moderate

55:35 and as an independent countless times when it really mattered.

55:39 And um you know, I don't think she deserves those labels at all.

55:43 So, I would love to see someone else replace uh Susan Collins.

55:48 I I I do worry, you know,

55:50 if Grand Platoner has a lot that uh there are a lot of dynamics.

55:53 There's a lot of weather that converges over that candidacy,

55:55 but at the same time he's doing things I think for the party especially uh

55:59 as a veteran talking about the Iran war

56:01 in a really important and compelling and foundational way.

56:05 He's established a dialogue that I think is missing from a a lot

56:09 of parts of party leadership where you don't hear from party leadership.

56:12 So, I'm I'm hopeful that he can inject some real life into not just the party,

56:17 but the political conversation if he does get elected.

56:19 So, that is me waving the white flag saying I was wrong in thinking that Janet

56:25 Mills would gain more traction or had like

56:27 some secret support somewhere in the state, I think.

56:33 And let's see what you do, Grant.

56:35 Let me come to your defense here because the way we've had

56:38 this we had this debate on Positively Maine a long time ago.

56:42 We had this debate a couple times on Political Experts React.

56:44 And it's been I think it's overly simplified as Alex

56:49 is pro Janet Mills and Dan is pro Grant Platoner.

56:52 You at no point in this did you argue

56:54 that Janet Mills was going to win the primary.

56:57 Like that was the the conversation you and I

56:58 have had has been about Grant Platoner's electability.

57:02 Um and which I think is remains an open question.

57:05 We don't know if he's electable till he actually wins.

57:07 And there's obviously a dump truck's worth

57:10 of opposition research based on the tattoo, on his online posts.

57:14 And we we do not know yet how that's going to play.

57:18 As you point out, I think there there are some takeaways from this.

57:22 Like it is it's not surprising that Janet Mills dropped out because she

57:25 had clearly was losing by a lot and was out of money, right?

57:29 She had stopped uh running TV ads.

57:32 They'd even stop running the Facebook ads you run to raise money.

57:36 So, like you are really out of money when that happens.

57:38 Um but it is like if you take a step back,

57:40 like the idea that the two-term incumbent governor of the state

57:43 endorsed by the DSCC and endorsed by Chuck Schumer

57:46 has to drop out a month before the election is

57:48 sort of a like that seems shut that's shocking, right?

57:52 Sign of the times.

57:53 But it is you're right, it is a sign of the times.

57:55 It is like Janet Mills is 78 years old.

57:59 She will be 85 at the end of her first term.

58:01 She said she was only going to serve one term.

58:03 Now, Janet Mills is not Joe Biden.

58:05 I interviewed Janet Mills.

58:06 She seemed nothing like Joe Biden, certainly the Joe Biden on that debate stage.

58:11 Um but she was paying a price for Joe Biden.

58:16 Right?

58:16 Just a in a Democratic estab- a 78-year-old establishment politician endorsed

58:22 by the same establishment politicians who told everyone that Joe Biden was

58:26 good to go is so like that's too much of a burden

58:28 for uh someone to overcome in a post-Trump and a Trump-Biden era.

58:35 Right?

58:36 Just you cannot do that.

58:37 And Platter is a good candidate, right?

58:39 People want change.

58:40 He represented change.

58:41 She represented the status quo.

58:44 The Schumer endorsement was a big problem for her.

58:45 Like and it just he endorsed her and then was

58:49 immediately asked questions about would you support Schumer for leader?

58:53 And she didn't answer the question.

58:54 She said, you know, I haven't decided yet.

58:56 Well, no one buys that because Schumer

58:58 endorsed her and recruited her into the race.

59:00 So, like it's like even if she really felt that way,

59:02 that was just like hard for people

59:03 to to believe when especially when Platter was saying,

59:05 I will not vote for Schumer.

59:07 Um and so like this is where we are.

59:10 Like you know, we need now we need Grand Platter to win.

59:13 Susan Collins had There is no path to the majority without this.

59:17 Um without Maine.

59:19 Like we absolutely have to win Maine.

59:21 In 2020, Susan Collins outperformed Joe Donald Trump by 18 points.

59:25 Biden She won by nine points.

59:28 Uh and Biden won by nine points, which is like just that level of crossover

59:33 voting in 2020s in the 2020s is unheard of.

59:36 And so, she's a very tough candidate.

59:38 We need him to win, and now hopefully everyone can unite around Platner,

59:41 and we can go go make this happen cuz we have to.

59:44 It's non-negotiable, as they say.

59:47 Yes, it is.

59:48 Okay.

59:48 And now and now we have nothing left to talk about.

59:51 Yeah, this is the last time you and I will podcast together,

59:53 unless Grandpa Trump loses, then you Then then you then you I will be

59:58 on your I'll also be on your podcast every day for a month.

1:00:01 I hope with that does not come to pass, though.

1:00:03 Yes, I I mean, I would love to be on your podcast every day for a month.

1:00:05 That would be uh an enjoyable use of my time, but every day for a month.

1:00:09 But that's not the circumstances in which I would like to do it.

1:00:11 I I mean, okay.

1:00:13 One last thing before Tommy's conversation with Zach Walls,

1:00:15 in the latest sign of the coming apocalypse,

1:00:17 the Wall Street Journal reported on Wednesday

1:00:19 that Amazon Studios executives have been

1:00:22 discussing a reboot of The Apprentice with none other than Donald Trump Jr.

1:00:27 as the new host.

1:00:29 What the hell is going on here?

1:00:31 Um do you Alex, do you think Americans

1:00:32 are really yearning for more Apprentice on their TV?

1:00:34 Or is it possible that Jeff Bezos and the folks

1:00:37 at Amazon may have an ulterior motive here?

1:00:40 Oh, why would you think that?

1:00:41 Just cuz they spent $3 trillion on a Melania

1:00:44 Trump documentary that made them like 5 cents?

1:00:47 Um first of all, we should just note that it is not an active production.

1:00:51 For all of you listeners on the West Coast, you know what that means,

1:00:53 but everybody else in the country like it's

1:00:55 unclear if this is really going to happen.

1:00:57 However, it.

1:00:58 They're discussing it.

1:00:59 They're talking about it.

1:01:00 Um it's like literally the least surprising thing ever.

1:01:03 And um I you know, I know we we started this conversation talking

1:01:08 about the way in which corporate America may be feeling a little bit,

1:01:12 you know, maybe itchy to stop being such stooges, such such buttlers for Trump.

1:01:19 Well, I guess that that that memo didn't

1:01:22 get to Jeff Bezos cuz clearly Amazon's just

1:01:25 relentless shameless currying of favor with the Trump

1:01:28 administration is has not come to a conclusion.

1:01:30 Um the idea that we would reboot The Apprentice with another Trump in the hot

1:01:35 in the lead seat in the in the captain's chair is like nauseating to me.

1:01:39 And yet um if if Amazon doesn't bite,

1:01:42 I would assume someone else would because there are some certain percentage

1:01:45 of the country you have a built-in audience for it and I'm sure you know,

1:01:49 the powers that be would love to go you know,

1:01:51 the grooming ground for Republican presidential candidates

1:01:53 isn't Senate's isn't the isn't the governor seat.

1:01:56 It's being a reality TV star.

1:01:58 So yeah, if Don Jr's going to have a future in politics in this country,

1:02:01 he better get into an apprentice reboot reboot and stat.

1:02:04 Someone should tell Jeff Bezos that the Supreme Court has gutted our campaign

1:02:09 finance laws so much that we basically

1:02:11 exist in an environment of legalized bribery.

1:02:14 So he does not have to to use your term but clown himself to bribe Donald Trump.

1:02:20 He does not have to buy bad documentaries.

1:02:22 He does not have to remake terrible shows.

1:02:24 He can basically just write Donald Trump a check.

1:02:26 He can write it to the Trump's library.

1:02:28 He can write it to the ballroom.

1:02:29 He can write it to a super PAC.

1:02:31 He can buy a bunch of crypto coins.

1:02:33 Like it's not necessary to embarrass himself to get

1:02:36 the what the result what he wants which is

1:02:38 he wants Trump's Pentagon to give Blue Origin his space

1:02:41 company some contracts so they can compete with SpaceX.

1:02:46 And he is doing everything in his power to make that happen

1:02:49 and but he is not savvy enough to realize that he is

1:02:52 embarrassing himself and making his political position harder in the medium term

1:02:56 in the long run by doing this in such an ass-clown-like fashion.

1:03:00 End of rant.

1:03:01 Switzerland got like a reduced tariff rate just for giving him a gold bar.

1:03:07 Like it's cheap.

1:03:08 You don't even have to try this hard.

1:03:09 Someone tell Bezos.

1:03:11 All right.

1:03:11 Well, we come back to end this conversation with Zach Walls.

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1:05:34 My guest today is a Democrat serving in the Iowa State Senate.

1:05:36 And now he is now running for the Democratic

1:05:38 nomination to represent Iowa in the United States Senate.

1:05:41 Bit of a downgrade going from Des Moines to DC.

1:05:44 But Zach Wahl's, great to meet you in person.

1:05:45 Tom, Tommy, it's good to be here.

1:05:46 Uh you're also running for Senate with a 2-year-old.

1:05:50 So you're trying to do like the red panda,

1:05:51 spin as many plates as you can at once.

1:05:53 look, uh we we can definitely talk more about that later.

1:05:56 Uh I do not necessarily recommend it, you know,

1:05:58 uh but thankfully I've got an incredible wife,

1:06:00 um two very supportive uh grandparents who

1:06:03 are a 15-minute drive away from my house, a sister who helps out a lot.

1:06:06 Actually, they're watching him literally right now.

1:06:08 And this campaign would not be possible uh without their support.

1:06:11 So if you're listening, I love you.

1:06:12 grandparents, truly.

1:06:13 And also, when you go on the road, like, you know,

1:06:15 you're in LA right now, you don't have the nanny to don.

1:06:17 So that's kind of nice.

1:06:18 Yeah, I mean, look, uh we've got 33 days to go uh at this moment,

1:06:23 so it's kind of hard to to get any restful sleep at all,

1:06:27 but uh thankfully Eli is mostly sleeping through the night.

1:06:30 He did learn how to climb out of his crib recently,

1:06:31 which was And my poor wife was alone.

1:06:35 This is terrifying.

1:06:36 Yeah, and like, we were on the road,

1:06:39 and I she's texting me photos about how he's

1:06:41 like pulled things off the shelves in the room.

1:06:42 And I'm like, "Oh my god,

1:06:43 I'm so sorry that I'm not there." My buddy would tell me

1:06:46 like when his kids learned to crawl crawl out of the crib,

1:06:49 he would just wake up in the dead of night

1:06:51 with a 2-year-old like 3 in from his face.

1:06:53 Yeah.

1:06:53 Yeah, yeah.

1:06:54 There's nothing more terrifying.

1:06:55 Anyway, um great to to finally spend some time with you in person.

1:06:59 Uh listeners might have heard of you cuz you gave this speech back in 2011.

1:07:03 You were a 19-year-old college student.

1:07:06 Uh it went super viral at the time.

1:07:08 You were defending the right for all Iowans to marry, but that was a while ago.

1:07:12 Can you tell listeners about yourself, your story,

1:07:15 uh and the moment that led to that speech, and and what you've been doing since?

1:07:18 Yeah.

1:07:18 Well, you know, that speech changed my life.

1:07:20 Uh it's actually how I met my wife, Chloé.

1:07:22 She was living in New York at the time

1:07:24 writing for a feminist blog called Feministing,

1:07:26 which was kind of a big deal, third wave.

1:07:28 Feminist blog at the time,

1:07:29 and she was on blog duty the week that video went viral,

1:07:31 and she wrote up the the video,

1:07:33 and the headline she put on it was "Marry Me, Zach Wahls." No way.

1:07:37 100% true story.

1:07:38 And, you know, I thought this was very cute, and I thought she was very cute.

1:07:41 So, I sent her an email.

1:07:42 I was like, you know, "I won't marry you, but I'd be happy to do an interview."

1:07:45 Uh-huh.

1:07:45 And, uh anyway, we've been together for about a decade.

1:07:49 Uh we've got a a 2-year-old, and um you know, it definitely changed my life.

1:07:54 Uh you know, it led me into advocacy for families like mine all over the state,

1:07:58 ultimately across the country.

1:08:00 Um and into politics when I ran for the state senate in 2018.

1:08:03 Uh I was only 27 at that point.

1:08:05 Uh so, I was the youngest member of the Iowa Senate when I was first elected.

1:08:08 Seven years later, I am still the youngest

1:08:10 member of the Iowa State Senate at 34.

1:08:12 And when we defeat Ashley Hinson in November,

1:08:14 I will be the youngest member of the US Senate.

1:08:16 Uh we'll dethrone Jon Ossoff, which I'm looking forward to.

1:08:19 That as well.

1:08:19 Yeah, actually talking to someone who's running

1:08:20 for Senate with a 2-year-old is a rare thing.

1:08:22 Usually, it's a 2-year-old grandkid.

1:08:24 Um so, again, that speech though you were talking about,

1:08:26 what was it It was like a horribly bigoted

1:08:29 uh Iowa law that they were trying to jam through.

1:08:33 so, Iowa was the third state in the country to recognize same-sex marriage.

1:08:37 And I grew up with my two moms, Jackie and Terry.

1:08:40 Um my mom, Terry, is a fifth-generation Iowa farm girl from Clayton County.

1:08:44 Uh my mom, Jackie, uh is nurse from Central Wisconsin.

1:08:47 And it was incredible watching them have the chance

1:08:50 to get married in 2009 after that Supreme Court ruling.

1:08:53 Two years later in 2011, I was a sophomore at the University of Iowa.

1:08:56 I was studying civil and environmental engineering.

1:08:58 I was going to go build bridges and and what have you.

1:09:01 Uh but then when Republicans were pushing forward this proposal

1:09:06 to reverse that Supreme Court decision by amending our Constitution,

1:09:10 um, I knew that I had to speak up.

1:09:12 And uh, and the reason that was the case,

1:09:13 and I haven't I hadn't talked about this in the the speech,

1:09:16 but one of my very first homework assignments,

1:09:20 I was in the eighth grade, this is in 2004, uh,

1:09:24 was to watch the Republican National Convention, those speeches,

1:09:27 and then talk about it in class next day.

1:09:30 And I will never forget what it was like watching some of the most powerful

1:09:36 people in our country stand in front

1:09:37 of the nation talking about the war in Iraq, the war in Afghanistan,

1:09:41 the war on terror, and then warn our country about the enemy from within,

1:09:46 and this radical Supreme Court decision from Massachusetts,

1:09:49 and the threat of gay marriage to our families, to our children, Yeah.

1:09:54 and realizing they're talking about my family.

1:09:58 They are talking about children like me.

1:10:01 And and I was it was it was so scary,

1:10:03 and when I went into class next day, you know,

1:10:06 I knew that I should should say something, I wanted to, but you know,

1:10:10 when I got there, I was I was scared.

1:10:12 I felt like there was a target on my back.

1:10:15 And so I didn't, and it's I stayed quiet, and that feeling, that shame, frankly,

1:10:21 of feeling like I should say something and and didn't

1:10:24 have the courage to do it, that stuck with me.

1:10:25 It was just seared in my memory.

1:10:28 And so, when I had the chance to give that testimony in 2011,

1:10:32 I knew that I had to do it.

1:10:33 When I had the chance to run for the State Senate in 2018,

1:10:38 and to fight back against terrible things

1:10:40 that Republicans were doing in our state, I felt like I had to do it.

1:10:43 And when we, my wife and I were

1:10:45 talking about this potential for this campaign last year,

1:10:48 um, running for the US Senate with a two-year-old, you know, not easy, um,

1:10:52 but it felt like it was something that we we had

1:10:54 to do because I know what it feels like to need

1:10:57 someone who's willing to fight for you when you can't do

1:10:59 that yourself and there are so many people in our state,

1:11:02 I think across our country right now who feel

1:11:04 not exactly the same obviously the way that I did.

1:11:07 Um, but I think everybody deserves someone who's willing to go

1:11:09 to bat for them and that's what this campaign is all about.

1:11:11 Absolutely.

1:11:12 So I I lived in Iowa for a year in 2007.

1:11:15 Um, loved it.

1:11:16 Like the Were you in Iowa City?

1:11:18 I was in Des Moines.

1:11:19 But I just was on the road all the time so

1:11:21 I went to like 70 some odd 73 counties with Obama, right?

1:11:24 71 counties.

1:11:25 Do you know what you're doing right now?

1:11:26 Yeah.

1:11:26 So amazing experience.

1:11:27 Loved every second of it obviously.

1:11:29 It was colored by the fact that Obama won the Iowa

1:11:31 caucuses and that got us the nomination and the presidency.

1:11:33 But you know, Iowa made this massive swing from 2008 in 2012 when Obama

1:11:39 won it twice to 2016 where Trump won the state by like almost 10 points.

1:11:43 Massive swing and you could see it especially

1:11:45 in all these kind of river counties in the east.

1:11:48 What do you think happened and how do Democrats get those voters back?

1:11:53 So I get this question a lot, you know, Obama, Obama, Trump, Trump, Trump.

1:11:58 And one of the things that I think a lot of folks it can be hard to understand

1:12:04 is that the message that Barack Obama was running

1:12:07 on in 2008 and 2012 about challenging the status quo,

1:12:11 bringing change to Washington D.C.

1:12:14 challenging the establishment.

1:12:16 To us that sounds very different from Make America Great Again.

1:12:19 But to a lot of the voters that our party has lost,

1:12:21 they sound very similar, right?

1:12:22 People who are willing to challenge a broken status quo.

1:12:26 And especially for a lot of folks in small town and rural America,

1:12:30 they have been failed by leaders in both parties.

1:12:33 And I would say in Iowa going back to the farm crisis in the 80s,

1:12:36 our state has had a reflexive skepticism

1:12:39 of the establishment because of how much damage that did

1:12:43 to our state and what the kind of consequences

1:12:45 of that have been over the last 40, 50 years.

1:12:47 And so you've seen Iowa support people like Bill Clinton in the 90s,

1:12:51 Barack Obama in the 2000s,

1:12:52 and now Donald Trump on that anti-establishment message.

1:12:56 I also will tell you, so I live in Coralville,

1:12:58 which is in Johnson County, a Democratic county,

1:13:01 but my district when I was first running in 2018 included

1:13:04 Cedar County to the east and Muscatine County south and east.

1:13:08 And I spent a lot of time knocking on doors in Cedar and Muscatine counties,

1:13:12 and I talked to a lot of Obama-Trump-Walls voters.

1:13:15 And whenever I would talk with somebody like this, of course

1:13:18 you want to know what are the issues facing your community,

1:13:20 and if they tell you that you're voting for you, like what what's going on here?

1:13:23 And what I would often hear from voters was something to the effect of, "Look,

1:13:26 I don't agree with Donald Trump on every single issue,

1:13:29 but I feel like he's fighting for me and for my family.

1:13:32 And you're here, you're listening,

1:13:34 you you you you you understand what's happening here, so you got my support,

1:13:37 too." And I think you know,

1:13:39 that is something that I learned actually after that 2011 speech.

1:13:42 I spent a lot of time traveling around the state, traveling around the country.

1:13:45 And you know, the marriage equality campaign

1:13:48 was all about meeting people where they were,

1:13:51 finding common ground, answering tough,

1:13:54 sometimes wildly inappropriate questions from people,

1:13:57 but bringing some grace and humility to that, rather than

1:14:00 I think the view that some folks have of Democrats

1:14:02 is that we look down on people or we

1:14:03 judge people if they disagree with us and condescension, whatever.

1:14:07 But if we had taken that approach in marriage equality,

1:14:10 if that kind of condescending looking down on people,

1:14:12 marriage equality would not have passed.

1:14:14 And so having those lessons was why I was able to win in small town rural areas,

1:14:19 where represent those areas for uh 4 years in my first term,

1:14:23 uh three and a half now here in my second term.

1:14:26 And it has made me a much better legislator, it's made me a better candidate,

1:14:29 and I think that is why we're going to win this election in November,

1:14:32 because there's a really unique opportunity to win these voters back because

1:14:35 of how bad the Trump policies have been for small town rural America.

1:14:39 But you have to have a positive vision.

1:14:41 It can't just be about how bad things are.

1:14:43 You got to be looking forward, too.

1:14:44 Yeah.

1:14:45 Let me ask you about one of those bad things.

1:14:46 So, Trump, you probably saw started a war with Iran.

1:14:49 Mhm.

1:14:49 Um It is going terribly wrong.

1:14:51 It's increased the price of oil, increased the price of gas.

1:14:54 It has increased fertilizer prices and availability all around the world.

1:14:58 There could be a global hunger crisis if this thing doesn't end soon.

1:15:01 Um, what is the impact been on Iowa farmers and the Iowa economy?

1:15:04 And then, what role do you think the US

1:15:06 Senate should be playing in ending the war?

1:15:08 Price of diesel is another part of oil and gasoline going up.

1:15:12 Basically, every piece of Iowa farm equipment runs on diesel.

1:15:15 So, you know, we're in the midst of planting season right now.

1:15:19 I was looking at my watch, April 29th.

1:15:21 Um, we, you know, are So,

1:15:24 all those machines that are out in the fields right now,

1:15:26 um, those are all a lot more expensive to operate than they were 3 months ago.

1:15:30 Um, for fertilizer costs, you know, the vast majority of Iowa farmers had

1:15:34 already bought their fertilizer for the spring.

1:15:36 Uh, so they're If these fertilizer prices stay elevated into the fall,

1:15:40 that's when you're going to start to see some real issues.

1:15:43 Um, now that's not to say that every farmer had already bought the fertilizer,

1:15:45 but the vast majority, about 80%, had already.

1:15:48 Um, but again, depending on how this goes,

1:15:50 how this is resolved, that's going to be a huge issue.

1:15:52 And then, of course, the human toll as well.

1:15:54 Um, two of the first six fatalities were, um, from Iowa.

1:15:57 Uh, and look, we can't have another endless war in the Middle East.

1:16:01 Um, and for what it's worth,

1:16:02 I don't hear support for the war from people when we're out campaigning.

1:16:06 We've done almost 300 events across over 70 counties now.

1:16:10 And and people don't like this idea that, you know,

1:16:13 Trump is trying to say, "Well, we don't have money for health care.

1:16:15 We don't have money for our schools,

1:16:16 but we can get 50 billion more dollars to go bomb Iran." Right?

1:16:20 That's crazy.

1:16:21 Uh, and when we talk about, you know, Washington D.C.

1:16:24 that has failed uh, states like Iowa,

1:16:26 people all over the country, it's exactly what we're talking about.

1:16:30 Yeah.

1:16:29 Um, let me ask you about some some Washington stuff.

1:16:32 So, you criticized your opponent, Josh Turck, uh,

1:16:34 who we interviewed a couple weeks back

1:16:35 for getting support from Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer.

1:16:38 Can you describe what support he's getting to listeners?

1:16:41 And, you know, your sort of thinking on Schumer,

1:16:44 are you saying you wouldn't vote for him for minority or majority leader?

1:16:47 Do you have a horse if if not Senator Schumer?

1:16:50 Would you reject DSCC funding if you do win the primary?

1:16:54 Like describe this criticism.

1:16:57 Let's take a step back and like let's just talk about

1:16:59 the extension of what you were just talking about with Obama and Trump.

1:17:02 My view is this party needs new leadership.

1:17:05 It's part of the reason why I'm running for the seat in the first place.

1:17:08 And that was part of why when we

1:17:10 launched the campaign back in June of last year,

1:17:12 I said this is before Josh got in the race.

1:17:15 I would not support Senator Schumer to remain as the leader.

1:17:18 There's two reasons for that for me.

1:17:19 Number one, you look at his track record as leader.

1:17:23 I don't think that it has met the moment.

1:17:24 I mean we are facing in Donald Trump

1:17:26 an existential threat to our country, to our democracy.

1:17:30 I mean this is a guy who just a few weeks ago was tweeting about nuking Iran.

1:17:34 Right?

1:17:35 Um the things that they have done just this morning

1:17:38 I saw another Supreme Court ruling on the VRA.

1:17:40 I'm sure we can get to that.

1:17:41 Save America Act.

1:17:42 I mean there are January 6th.

1:17:44 There's so many things that this administration is doing that are such a threat

1:17:47 to us that you need more effective response

1:17:50 from Senate Democrats and Schumer's not provided that.

1:17:52 Second, and I will never forget this, Chuck Schumer said on television,

1:17:57 "It is fine for our party to write off rural voters

1:18:00 and blue collar voters because for every one of those votes we lose,

1:18:03 we're going to make up two more in the suburbs."

1:18:06 And that math might work in New York, it definitely does not work in Iowa.

1:18:11 And frankly, that's not the Democratic Party that I want to belong to.

1:18:15 You know, since the New Deal, this is the party that has fought

1:18:17 for workers' rights and civil rights and women's rights.

1:18:20 We are the party that fights for people who have lost

1:18:23 their jobs to being offshored

1:18:24 or now being replaced with artificial intelligence.

1:18:27 Uh we fight for people who need a champion

1:18:29 no matter who you are or where you come from.

1:18:32 That is a Democratic Party that I believe in and that is

1:18:34 the Democratic Party that we have to fight for.

1:18:36 And to get that, we need new leaders.

1:18:38 Uh Representative Turk obviously gets in the race a couple months later,

1:18:42 is not taking the same position that I have.

1:18:44 Uh and so, uh Senator Schumer's been supporting him.

1:18:47 There's a super PAC that's been spending significant amount

1:18:50 of money bolstering uh Representative Turk in our primary.

1:18:53 Um the DSCC has been promoting various events and opening doors for Josh.

1:18:57 And look, they can do that, right?

1:18:59 Um but what I will tell you is if we want to win

1:19:02 in November and we want to win back those voters that our party has lost,

1:19:07 who are frustrated with a rigged system that is, you know,

1:19:10 done devastating damage to our state's economy that has,

1:19:14 through their campaign finance system, corrupted our politics.

1:19:17 I think it is going to be a hell of a lot easier to win

1:19:19 those voters back with a candidate who can look voters in the eye and tell them,

1:19:22 "I don't know Chuck Schumer a damn thing.

1:19:24 I'm here to work for you, not for Schumer, not for Trump,

1:19:26 not for Elon Musk or the billionaires or the big corporations.

1:19:29 We need a senator who's going to do what's right for Iowa.

1:19:31 That's what I've done in the state Senate,

1:19:32 and that's what I'll do in the US Senate." So, I look at it I agree with a lot

1:19:36 of your critique there of not meeting the moment.

1:19:39 A lot of it I'm just curious like sort

1:19:41 of how the how would this manifest in a general election?

1:19:45 Like does it mean rejecting money from the DSCC?

1:19:48 Does it mean rejecting like Democratic National Committee's funds?

1:19:50 Here's what I'll tell you.

1:19:51 Look, there's, you know, obviously if we win the nomination the reality is,

1:19:56 and there's been reporting on this, uh Democrats

1:19:59 in DC still want to win this seat.

1:20:01 But you win the seat and then you have the ability

1:20:04 to help shape what the general election looks like on your terms,

1:20:08 rather than on Washington's terms.

1:20:10 And Tommy, I don't need to tell you folks in Washington have not

1:20:13 had a great track record in Iowa over the last 14 years, right?

1:20:19 Uh and so from my perspective,

1:20:21 I think that having a nominee who's been able to run against the establishment,

1:20:25 to say that actually we are going to talk with voters in a way

1:20:28 that we believe reflects a way that actually wins on the ground.

1:20:31 We've been investing in organizing very early.

1:20:33 And I'll also tell you,

1:20:35 the message that we've been running on, which is about the economy,

1:20:38 it is about the corruption,

1:20:39 it is about a new vision for the future of small town and rural Iowa,

1:20:42 and hopefully we can get to some of that in a minute.

1:20:44 That is resonating with a lot of people.

1:20:46 When we turned in our nominating petitions,

1:20:47 this is about a month and a half ago now,

1:20:49 15% of our signers were registered independents and Republicans.

1:20:52 We had signers from all 99 counties and like triple the number

1:20:56 of signatures that you needed from folks to legally get on the ballot.

1:21:00 Um, I was also the first candidate in the race, uh,

1:21:03 Democrat or Republican to get a grassroots

1:21:04 contribution from Iowans in all 99 counties.

1:21:07 Um, our 99th county was Wright County, which is up in North Iowa.

1:21:09 25 bucks from a guy named Gary.

1:21:11 Uh, Gary gets us to magic number 99, so we're like, we're thrilled.

1:21:14 Get Gary on the phone so I can say,

1:21:15 "Thank you." And learn about why he's supporting the campaign.

1:21:19 Gary, uh, you know, tells me he's a retired small town lawyer.

1:21:22 He's excited to see a new generation step up.

1:21:24 He's, uh, a president of his local school board,

1:21:27 loves my passion for public education.

1:21:30 He's a Vietnam veteran.

1:21:31 And then Gary tells me that he's a registered Republican.

1:21:33 Hm.

1:21:34 And he loves our anti-corruption message.

1:21:36 Uh, and so now Gary and his wife Susan are some of our best volunteers.

1:21:40 And in fact, because of Gary and Susan, uh,

1:21:42 we turned in 174 signatures from Wright County

1:21:45 as a part of getting onto the ballot.

1:21:46 And we've been unable to determine the last time

1:21:48 a Democratic candidate for Senate came anywhere close to that amount.

1:21:50 And so we think it's an example of how our approach,

1:21:53 our message, and the structure of our campaign is resonating.

1:21:56 And so, if we win the nomination and folks from Washington

1:21:59 want to work with us rather than us working with them, if that makes sense.

1:22:03 In the vision that we have for how we win this race,

1:22:06 that's their decision, right?

1:22:07 So it sounds like you're saying you're like if you win the nomination,

1:22:09 the DSCC is going to spend and you're not

1:22:11 going to stop them and you'll work with them,

1:22:13 but you feel like you will have better negotiating terms.

1:22:16 Yeah.

1:22:16 And look, again, I think to me,

1:22:19 that illustrates the strength of this grassroots campaign, right?

1:22:21 The fact that we've been able to have um, you know,

1:22:24 we've outraised my opponent in the primary despite him

1:22:27 having every door open for him uh, by the committee.

1:22:30 You know, all these various things.

1:22:31 We are working our tails off, right?

1:22:33 And Iowans respect hard work,

1:22:34 and frankly they respect people who are willing to say

1:22:36 out loud the things that they know are true,

1:22:38 which is that there are leaders in both parties

1:22:40 who have failed states like Iowa, and we need change.

1:22:43 And we have to have somebody who's willing to push for that change.

1:22:45 And look, it may not work, but I will tell you I think it is going to work,

1:22:49 and I think that is exactly the message

1:22:50 that we are going to ride straight into November.

1:22:52 And I hope that we can talk about Ashley Hinson

1:22:55 I bet all of your listeners probably don't know

1:22:56 a lot about her, but she is one of the worst.

1:23:00 So, I do want to ask about her, but on the reform stuff.

1:23:03 So, voters are furious at Washington.

1:23:06 They're mad at the political system.

1:23:07 They're mad at Congress.

1:23:09 I think Gallup had a poll out the other

1:23:11 day that found the congressional approval rating is 10%.

1:23:15 Yeah.

1:23:15 Uh they're like, you know, 60 points underwater.

1:23:18 So, what's your plan to kind of reform the Senate,

1:23:21 fix the image of it being broken?

1:23:23 Like, are we getting rid of the filibuster?

1:23:25 Are we banning packing lobbyist money?

1:23:26 We talking term limits?

1:23:28 Like, tell us your your plan.

1:23:29 Did you read my campaign website?

1:23:30 Cuz that's literally So, really early in the campaign, anti-corruption,

1:23:34 this reform really emerged as something that we heard from Iowans on the trail.

1:23:38 And so, we've got literally the So,

1:23:41 we're we launch our Iowans over Insiders Tour.

1:23:43 This was about 2 and 1/2 weeks ago now,

1:23:45 and we've started with our anti-corruption plan.

1:23:48 That includes filibuster reform,

1:23:49 which is not a position that my opponent has taken in this primary.

1:23:53 It includes overturning Citizens United,

1:23:56 which I've made a promise I will be a day one

1:23:58 co-sponsor of an amendment to the US Constitution to do that.

1:24:01 I've made a promise I'm only going to serve

1:24:03 two terms in the US Senate if elected.

1:24:05 I've become a big believer in term limits.

1:24:07 I've seen firsthand in the state legislature what

1:24:09 happens when good people stay for too long,

1:24:11 and it is so much worse when bad people stay for too long.

1:24:14 And we can all see that playing out in the US Senate.

1:24:17 Uh the third thing that we talk about is banning members of Congress,

1:24:21 and I've made a promise to follow this by examples, as well.

1:24:24 Um, no owning trading stocks, cryptocurrency, prediction markets.

1:24:28 Um, people deserve to have a government

1:24:30 that they trust is actually working for them, not for their own bank accounts.

1:24:34 And the other thing, too, I think that is so important for us as a party,

1:24:37 you know, I mean, I I go back to this point since the New Deal, right?

1:24:40 The things that we fought for.

1:24:42 Democrats believe that government can do really

1:24:44 good things to make people's lives better.

1:24:46 Social Security, Medicare, infrastructure, public education.

1:24:51 But if people don't trust the government,

1:24:54 then it's going to be a hell of a lot harder to do those things.

1:24:57 Uh, and so I think restoring that trust is incredibly important.

1:25:01 Um, and getting that money out

1:25:02 of our politics is incredibly important for the economy,

1:25:04 as well, because people understand, like, can,

1:25:07 you know, um, every Iowa voter explain the difference between a 527

1:25:11 or a C4 or what I like, no, of course not.

1:25:14 But do people understand that there is

1:25:16 a direct connection between how rigged the economy is

1:25:21 and how corrupted our politics have become

1:25:23 by these super PACs and billionaires and dark money.

1:25:26 Like, yeah, absolutely.

1:25:27 Everybody gets that.

1:25:28 You know, Donald Trump was not wrong when

1:25:30 he said that we need to drain the swamp.

1:25:31 The problem is that he's not draining the swamp at all.

1:25:33 If anything, he's like floating in it.

1:25:35 He's still building in the swamp.

1:25:36 Totally.

1:25:37 Totally.

1:25:37 Like Pete Buttigieg in there and a bunch of other deep fakes.

1:25:39 Well, let let me ask you like some of your what your critics would say.

1:25:41 Like, supporters of your opponent would point out

1:25:43 that you ran a PAC in a previous job, the the NextGen 50 PAC.

1:25:48 They would say like,

1:25:48 did you find religion on this issue because money was getting spent against you?

1:25:51 Like, how did you come to this and how do you explain that previous job?

1:25:55 Yeah, I mean, look, so first of all,

1:25:56 there was no federal independent expenditure of that organization at all, right?

1:26:00 So, it's a complete apples and oranges situation.

1:26:02 Um, but I would tell you, I think like a lot of young voters of our generation,

1:26:06 I'm going to say our generation here,

1:26:08 um, I think that concern about money in politics

1:26:10 has been something that we've seen for a long time.

1:26:11 And part of that, I think,

1:26:13 is growing up in the post-Citizens United era, going back to 2010.

1:26:16 I mean, it's funny, I still remember watching those episodes

1:26:19 of the Colbert Report where Stephen is like explaining,

1:26:22 you know, his dark money group and the Stephen Colbert

1:26:25 PAC and everything and just thinking about how absurd that was.

1:26:28 And I was a college student then

1:26:30 and and now like actually being in elected office,

1:26:35 you know, you can see it so much so.

1:26:38 But I I will tell you tell me so

1:26:39 one story about the influence of money in politics.

1:26:43 My very first year is in 2019.

1:26:46 These large out-of-state investment companies started

1:26:49 coming to Iowa buying mobile home communities and trailer parks and proposing

1:26:54 outrageous increases to the monthly lot rent.

1:26:57 50%, 60%, 70% and like I would be very unhappy

1:27:02 if my mortgage went up 70% and these folks have,

1:27:05 you know, a lot less, you know, flexibility in their budgets than I do.

1:27:08 And and this one company from Utah bought 15 communities across the state,

1:27:12 three of them in my Senate district,

1:27:14 two in Johnson County and then one in Cedar County,

1:27:16 the more rural part of my district.

1:27:18 And as their state senator, I took it upon myself to go knock

1:27:21 doors in my communities to hear from my constituents,

1:27:24 my people about what was going on.

1:27:26 And the stories I heard were heartbreaking.

1:27:27 I met a a woman named Candy.

1:27:28 Candy was a widow and her late husband had saved up,

1:27:31 bought her this beautiful double-wide trailer and she had a place

1:27:35 to call her home and she was worried about her own home.

1:27:39 She was terrified about what would happen to her neighbors and I, you know,

1:27:44 I was so angry about what I was hearing that I was able to take these stories

1:27:48 and I went to my Republican colleagues and even

1:27:50 though I was a freshman and even though,

1:27:52 you know, we obviously didn't agree on every issue,

1:27:54 that experience that I had as an advocate for marriage equality

1:27:56 about finding that common ground and being able to bring people together,

1:28:00 we brought together a bipartisan group.

1:28:02 We hammered out a bill that we could all support and as a freshman,

1:28:05 I got that bill with the help of people like Candy

1:28:07 and her neighbors who came to the statehouse to fight for that bill.

1:28:10 We got it through the Senate 48 to zero.

1:28:12 Everyone assumed this was a done deal.

1:28:16 And then 2 days later, I get a text message asking me to come over

1:28:18 to the to the house side for a closed door meeting about my bill.

1:28:22 And I remember like it was yesterday, walking in.

1:28:25 First person I see is the lobbyist representing these big companies.

1:28:30 And the second person I see is a state

1:28:31 representative who's holding my bill, shaking her head.

1:28:35 That state representative is now a member of Congress.

1:28:37 And she was my Republican opponent in November, Ashley Hinson.

1:28:41 And I was in the room and I watched as Ashley

1:28:44 Hinson killed my bipartisan bill as a favor to that lobbyist.

1:28:49 And after this was over, I looked up how much money

1:28:53 this lobbyist had bundled for her re-election campaign.

1:28:56 You want to guess how much it was?

1:28:58 50 grand.

1:28:59 $1,500.

1:29:01 Ooh, cheap date.

1:29:02 And you will you will never guess though uh

1:29:05 who was some of her biggest supporters in her campaign

1:29:07 for the US House or who did a fundraising event

1:29:10 for her in the Senate campaign just a few months ago.

1:29:12 So, when we talk about this connection between, you know,

1:29:15 the rigged economy and the corruption of our politics,

1:29:17 I saw that first hand as a freshman legislator.

1:29:21 And look, I will tell you this, I was excited to run against Joni Ernst.

1:29:25 But when I found out I was going to be running against Ashley Hinson,

1:29:28 I jumped out of bed the next morning

1:29:31 because this campaign is about a lot of things.

1:29:33 It's about this rigged economy that is benefiting the big

1:29:35 investment companies at the expense of people like Candy.

1:29:39 It is about the corruption of money in our politics.

1:29:41 It is about that new vision that we have

1:29:43 for the future of small town and rural Iowa.

1:29:45 But one of those things is definitely the opportunity to end

1:29:48 the political career of the woman who killed my bipartisan bill for $1,500.

1:29:52 Take a little spite.

1:29:53 I like spite.

1:29:54 I'm also very grateful that you said uh

1:29:56 it's our generation when you're 34 and I'm not.

1:29:59 Don't think about it too much.

1:30:00 I I know it's it honestly is the nicest thing anyone has said to me today.

1:30:03 Um can I just one last Tell me more about Ashley though.

1:30:06 What So, she what do voters need to know

1:30:08 about her because she's not a well-known political Totally.

1:30:12 Well, you know, it's it's funny.

1:30:14 Um when Ashley first got in the race, this is back in September.

1:30:18 So, so we get in June.

1:30:20 Uh and actually it's funny.

1:30:21 We we were in the planning process for the campaign, obviously.

1:30:24 And then on like June 3rd or something, Joni Ernst says, "Well,

1:30:28 we all are going to die." in response

1:30:30 to a question about Medicaid cuts at a town hall.

1:30:32 good answer.

1:30:32 It was not a good answer and it was

1:30:34 not a popular position to take on health care.

1:30:36 And so, you know, we had already been planning

1:30:37 to announce the campaign that happened a few days later.

1:30:40 Um in August, poll comes out for the general election showing

1:30:43 me leading Joni Ernst by two points in a head-to-head match-up.

1:30:47 Uh you know, 10 days later she's out of the race.

1:30:49 Ashley Hinson's getting in.

1:30:50 I don't think we can take all the credit for Joni withdrawing from the race,

1:30:53 but we'll take a little bit of the credit.

1:30:54 Take it and run with it.

1:30:55 And when Ashley first got in, you know, to exactly your question,

1:30:58 a lot of folks don't know, who's Ashley Hinson?

1:31:01 And so, I would kind of tell people, "Look,

1:31:04 she's kind of like the Marjorie Taylor Greene of the Midwest."

1:31:08 The problem is I can't use that comparison anymore because Marjorie I know.

1:31:12 She seems reasonable compared to Hinson.

1:31:13 I mean, Hinson, look, she has all the same terrible votes

1:31:15 that Joni Ernst does for the Republican budget,

1:31:17 the big billionaire tax cut, cutting 800 billion from Medicaid,

1:31:21 defunding Obamacare, um all of that stuff.

1:31:24 But in addition to all of that, she's

1:31:25 co-sponsored a total abortion ban in the US House.

1:31:27 She has voted not once but twice against capping the cost of insulin.

1:31:31 She's voted against Medicare being able to negotiate over prescription drugs.

1:31:34 She's actually voted to cut Social Security,

1:31:36 which not a lot of people know yet, but they certainly will in November.

1:31:39 a bad vote.

1:31:40 Very bad vote.

1:31:41 Uh she is someone who's accepted millions

1:31:44 of dollars from the insurance and pharmaceutical industries.

1:31:47 And so, from my perspective, I think that there is um no one who I

1:31:51 would rather have the opportunity to run against in this election.

1:31:54 And I'll tell you, Tommy, when we defeat Ashley in November,

1:31:56 I'm going to personally make sure that Candy

1:31:58 and a couple of her neighbors come out to Washington D.C.

1:32:00 for the swearing in.

1:32:01 There you go.

1:32:02 Um not a fan, I guess, of Ashley Hinson.

1:32:05 I feel I feel I feel like I've convinced her.

1:32:06 But so, you as you know, we have a primary coming up.

1:32:09 Um uh Vote Vets, we're the organization

1:32:11 that you talked about earlier that's endorsed

1:32:12 your opponent and put a bunch of uh ad dollars on TV in support of him.

1:32:16 They released a poll.

1:32:17 It has Josh up 20 points.

1:32:19 Wonder if you think if you agree with those numbers and uh

1:32:22 why you think you are better positioned to win this race.

1:32:25 Absolutely.

1:32:26 So, look, I mean, it's an internal poll.

1:32:27 Uh very little detail provided about it.

1:32:30 Uh but look, they've spent 5 and 1/2 million dollars.

1:32:32 And when we talk about how super PACs have this disproportionate

1:32:36 impact on our politics and and primaries like this one.

1:32:39 And of course, this is not our only race in the country

1:32:41 where super PACs are spending millions and millions of dollars.

1:32:44 Um this is an example of I think

1:32:46 something that a lot of Democratic primary voters are

1:32:47 really frustrated with because it feels like the super

1:32:50 PACs are drowning out the voices of individual voters.

1:32:53 You've got, like you said, over 5 million dollars uh spent so far.

1:32:57 Uh and that is a significant amount of money.

1:32:59 Um what I will tell you is that we've been traveling across the state.

1:33:02 Uh folks are really um resonating with our anti-establishment message.

1:33:07 And it's not, frankly, just Gary and other Republicans or independents.

1:33:10 A lot of Democratic primary voters are not

1:33:12 happy with what is happening in Washington right now.

1:33:14 They are not satisfied with the leadership of Chuck Schumer,

1:33:16 and they are ready for real change.

1:33:18 And so, when we talk about how we need to make that change a reality,

1:33:21 that is something that is resonating across the political spectrum.

1:33:25 And when you see, you know, to your point,

1:33:28 um candidates say, "Well, I'm opposed to Dark Money.

1:33:30 I'm opposed to super PACs and they're

1:33:31 benefiting from millions of dollars of outside spending.

1:33:35 I think voters aren't happy about that, either.

1:33:38 And so, uh what I would tell you is we're on to tomorrow,

1:33:42 and we're going to continue, you know, find during the final stretch here.

1:33:45 We've been uh on the last 2 and 1/2 weeks our Iowans over Insiders Tour.

1:33:50 We started with a very comprehensive

1:33:52 anti-corruption plan that actually uh Senator

1:33:54 Elizabeth Warren personally texted to to say that she really liked it,

1:33:57 which I think about the highest honor you could get for an anti-corruption plan.

1:34:00 Solid.

1:34:00 Um we had our uh plan on the economic agenda.

1:34:03 Um and one of the things I would just point out on that Tommy

1:34:05 is that when we talk about things like a billionaire wealth tax,

1:34:08 when we talk about breaking up the corporate

1:34:10 monopolies that have a stranglehold on agribusiness in Iowa,

1:34:13 so like four companies control the global grain market,

1:34:17 four companies control the fertilizer market.

1:34:19 One of those companies, by the way, is Koch Industries.

1:34:21 I think probably the only people who hate the Koch

1:34:23 brothers more than Pod Save America listeners are Iowa farmers.

1:34:26 Yeah, that's right.

1:34:27 That is something that resonates with people.

1:34:28 You know, I think some people in DC think

1:34:30 of that as like a progressive or lefty-coded thing.

1:34:33 That is not the case at all.

1:34:34 I mean, you go talk to an average swing voter in the state of Iowa,

1:34:37 and you ask them about those two things,

1:34:39 they're going to give you a thumbs up, 100%.

1:34:42 And so that is how we're going to win is because

1:34:44 we have a message that is not being filtered through super PACs,

1:34:47 it's not coming from Washington, it's not coming from pollsters,

1:34:50 it is coming from people across our state.

1:34:52 And that's how you're going to win.

1:34:54 What do you say to people who are like, "Look,

1:34:55 Iowa City is, you know, the most liberal part of the state.

1:34:58 You haven't had to run against a Republican.

1:35:00 Maybe you're not ready for like what

1:35:01 that you know that you've heard this response.

1:35:03 What do you say to Yeah, well, look,

1:35:04 I mean, if you think that I haven't defeated Republicans,

1:35:06 I would encourage you to ask Bob Vander Plaats or any of the other

1:35:09 folks who are trying to change Iowa's marriage equality law back in 2011.

1:35:13 Um and what I would tell you is that the, you know,

1:35:15 the the idea that this election is going to be

1:35:18 decided based on where a candidate is from is absolutely absurd.

1:35:21 I mean, same people who said that Barack Obama

1:35:23 couldn't win cuz he was from Chicago, Illinois, right?

1:35:25 And that was wrong, right?

1:35:26 People don't care about where you're from.

1:35:28 They care about why you're there.

1:35:29 They care about what your vision for the future is.

1:35:32 And if you have a concrete idea to have about how to make it a reality.

1:35:35 Uh we've got all those things.

1:35:37 Uh again, I will also tell you, I'm the only candidate running on the Democratic

1:35:40 primary who has represented small-town and rural Iowa.

1:35:44 Uh Cedar and Muscatine County, Obama, Trump, Walls counties.

1:35:48 And for years, I took really seriously the responsibility

1:35:51 of showing up to those listening posts and those legislative forums.

1:35:55 I was often the only elected Democrat

1:35:58 on the panel answering questions from the audience.

1:36:00 Me and like five Republicans, you know, not quite Jubilee style,

1:36:04 you know, or whatever, but like pretty close.

1:36:07 surrounded.

1:36:06 And and that experience it made me a better legislator.

1:36:11 It's made me a better candidate for this office.

1:36:13 And that's the exact same approach that we'll take as a U.S.

1:36:15 Senator.

1:36:16 I believe 100% the importance of showing up, doing town halls,

1:36:19 Chuck Grassley famously does the 99 county tour every year.

1:36:23 We'll do that in the U.S.

1:36:24 Senate.

1:36:25 Um and we'll make sure that we have a candidate

1:36:27 who uh or candidate in this race and then

1:36:29 a senator uh who actually is listening to the people

1:36:31 and fighting to to go to work for them.

1:36:33 Will you emulate uh Grassley's Twitter style of just

1:36:35 being like My staff doesn't let me tweet anymore.

1:36:39 Um so which is probably for the for the best.

1:36:41 Uh last question for you.

1:36:42 Do you have a political hero or mentor or somebody

1:36:44 you want to emulate in Washington if you win this?

1:36:47 Yeah, Tom Harkin for sure.

1:36:48 You know, look, he um my mom Terry was diagnosed

1:36:50 with multiple sclerosis when I was uh 7 years old.

1:36:53 It's a devastating disease and and I watched as I

1:36:56 was growing up her physical decline into uh a wheelchair.

1:37:01 And you know, look, having gay parents uh even in Johnson

1:37:04 County in the '90s and early 2000s was not easy.

1:37:08 Um but having a parent in a wheelchair was also really tough.

1:37:10 And without the Americans with Disabilities Act,

1:37:13 and this is a point where Representative Harkin and I I think

1:37:15 both are incredibly grateful to Senator Harkin for his leadership on that.

1:37:19 Um you know, that made a huge difference for for my family.

1:37:22 Um you know, that time was also when I learned the importance

1:37:26 of um what uh labor union can do for a family.

1:37:30 My mom Jackie was a SEIU nurse at the University of Iowa Hospital.

1:37:33 She was laid off during the Great

1:37:34 Recession and that contract that got negotiated

1:37:37 on her behalf um made a huge difference for our family at a really tough time.

1:37:41 And you know, I think about Senator Harkin.

1:37:43 I think about his work with Americans with Disabilities Act.

1:37:45 I think about him being a relentless champion for labor unions.

1:37:49 I've been fortunate enough to win the endorsement of 25

1:37:51 different labor unions and organizations across our state in this race.

1:37:55 In fact, I was um the iron workers uh local

1:37:57 in Des Moines uh invited me to become a member.

1:38:00 So, I'm now a dues-paying iron worker uh local 67.

1:38:03 So, if this politics thing doesn't work out,

1:38:05 I got a future in the skilled trades.

1:38:07 And um Yeah.

1:38:09 What are you going to make me?

1:38:10 Well, I mean data centers are the big thing right

1:38:11 now and that's that's a whole separate can of worms.

1:38:14 Uh but the the thing right now that I would tell you is that, you know,

1:38:17 fighting for um a state where no matter who you are,

1:38:21 uh you know, how your you know, what your family is like,

1:38:24 um whether you have an ability or disability,

1:38:25 what have you, that is really important.

1:38:28 Uh fighting for the ability of people to come together to negotiate good jobs,

1:38:32 fair wages, great benefits, in an economy that works for us.

1:38:35 Those two things to me, that's what Senator Harkin represents and those are

1:38:38 things that are really important to me as well.

1:38:39 Well, Zach, best of luck in your campaign.

1:38:41 Great to spend some time with you and uh appreciate it.

1:38:43 I really appreciate it, Tommy.

1:38:44 I enjoyed the conversation today and if anyone listening wants to learn more,

1:38:47 join us at our website zachwalls.com.

1:38:49 We'd love to have you on board.

1:38:50 That's our show for today.

1:38:51 Thanks, Alex, for co-hosting.

1:38:52 Thanks to Zach Walls for coming on.

1:38:54 Lovett we'll be back in your feed

1:38:56 on Sunday with a conversation with Senator Bernie Sanders.