The Athletic’s Sam Amick Talks LeBron, Giannis, Thunder & More with Rich Eisen | Full Interview

0:00 We have not had this man on in a while, but let's end that.

0:02 Sam Aik of the Athletics, the NBA rider, senior NBA writer is joining us.

0:07 How are you, Sam?

0:08 Good to see you, man.

0:08 How are you?

0:09 I'm doing well, Rich.

0:10 Great to be back with you.

0:12 The the senior just makes you feel, you know,

0:13 like you've been doing it for a minute, but thanks for having me on.

0:16 You're no junior NBA writer.

0:18 Where have we found you?

0:19 Where are you right now?

0:21 I am in the the halls of the NBA draft combine out in Chicago.

0:25 This is the uh the Marriott Marquee.

0:27 I took a brief respit from playoff basketball and uh

0:33 and here we are trying to to check out

0:34 the young fellas and and see about this celebrated draft class.

0:37 What's the story line of the combine, Sam?

0:41 Well, uh the early story is that is that this senior,

0:44 you know, national rider lost his wallet on the first night.

0:46 So, we're off to a great start.

0:47 Yeah.

0:48 Oh, no.

0:48 Oh, no.

0:49 No.

0:49 No.

0:50 So, that's priority one from there.

0:53 I mean, honestly, as much as the draft guys are front and center, you know,

0:57 my interest without question is just trying

0:59 to get a sense of the offseason activity.

1:02 Uh, I mean, as you know, Rich,

1:04 we're going to have a a lot of chatter about some of the bigger name guys.

1:07 You know, like Lakers season ending last night naturally means

1:11 folks are going to be talking about what LeBron might do.

1:14 Uh, you've got the Giannis situation that seems to be heating up.

1:18 Um, you know, and it's funny with the draft as a backdrop

1:21 and the anti-tanking measures that are coming down the line,

1:25 there is definitely a sense that that all of a sudden,

1:28 you know, trading and and big-time deals and blockbuster acquisitions are

1:32 going to be an even bigger part of team building than before.

1:35 And and with that in mind, it's it's kind of, you know,

1:38 you go into the summer wondering what might happen.

1:40 Okay.

1:41 All right.

1:41 There's a lot there to unpack.

1:42 Let's let's hit the LeBron stuff first cuz

1:45 obviously he's such a unicorn as we all know.

1:48 But you also can't view his situation in a a total vacuum with the Lakers also

1:53 having Austin Reeves up and Rui Hachimura up

1:55 and Jackson Hayes up just to name three.

1:59 Uh you got two players, Marcus Smart and DeAndre Aton on player options.

2:04 But what do you think LeBron's options are going

2:06 to wind up being at the end of the day, Sam?

2:10 I mean, here's what I feel confident saying, and it's interest.

2:14 It's really interesting in terms of the Lakers season.

2:16 If you would have asked me in December how it

2:19 was going and what his future might hold with the Lakers,

2:22 it felt like they had unofficially divorced already.

2:25 That changed, you know, what they did on the back end of the season.

2:29 Uh, and specifically, you know,

2:31 March where they go 15-2 and LeBron shows a willingness to be the third option,

2:36 which he talked about last night.

2:38 uh and and you know it seems like it works and they

2:41 have their own big three uh that has some you know

2:44 optimism and promise then uh you know he's back in that alpha

2:48 male role out of necessity when Luca and Austin go down.

2:52 So the door is open for a Lakers return but it's just

2:55 a major question about uh the finances and making the numbers work.

2:59 They the Lakers want to have a balanced roster and and want

3:03 is not even a strong enough way of of putting it.

3:05 They need they they told Luca when he came to town

3:08 that you know we will build a you know contending

3:11 balanced two-way roster around you somewhat similar to the one

3:15 that you took to the finals in Dallas a couple years back.

3:19 So that's where the LeBron and Austin situations

3:22 get tricky because the the price point might be

3:26 the sort of thing that that leads to a divorce and and then of course for LeBron

3:30 you then you wonder is he actually willing

3:32 to move out of LA and and do something

3:34 in Cleveland or do something in Golden State

3:36 and and so we'll have to wait and see.

3:37 Okay.

3:38 The timeline on it is what I mean obviously July one we're talking free agency.

3:45 Um, you know, the talking happens long before then.

3:48 Um, you know, I would say the next week or so,

3:51 you're going to have the annual LeBron chatting with his family.

3:55 A, you know, I don't know what percentage I would put on it,

3:58 but that world does exist when, you know,

4:00 he goes home to his wife and kids and says,

4:02 "I think I've played enough basketball." And I don't think that'll happen,

4:05 but you got to decide, do you want to play?

4:07 Then you got to decide what does it look like with the Lakers.

4:10 Um, so I mean we'll probably get some clarity

4:13 and a whole lot of chatter in late June,

4:15 but but we're still a ways away from I think knowing what he's going to do.

4:18 Well, asked uh last night about whether he planned to recruit James uh LeBron

4:23 and Austin Reeves to resign with LA like he did with Marcus Smart last summer.

4:28 Luca quote, "We'll see.

4:29 Can't tell you nothing." So what what's your general sense

4:34 behind the scenes of of how this all works out at the end of the day?

4:38 I mean, Sam, Rich, here's the here's the conundrum,

4:41 and it it's weird because I don't think, you know,

4:44 sometimes you have personal dynamics with star players where you

4:48 question whether or not they want to keep competing together.

4:51 I don't see that.

4:52 I don't hear that here.

4:52 These guys like each other.

4:54 I think there might have been a time when Luca was ready for the, you know,

4:57 LeBron subplot, LeBron co-star experience to come to an end,

5:00 but I think even he just kind of accepted a that he's been a good teammate,

5:04 b that he's been a very good player.

5:06 Um, but the problem is that, and we reported

5:11 this today in our in our obituary Lakers story,

5:13 is that Luca has made it clear to the Lakers that he wants to play

5:17 with Austin and that he would prefer

5:19 that they don't swap him for another star player.

5:23 Well, the reality is the only realistic pathway even though Austin's up.

5:27 I mean, looking at a signing trade, um, you know,

5:29 like the idea of having Austin Reeves and LeBron and another star player,

5:34 I mean, unless you have LeBron signing a minimum contract,

5:37 which nobody expects him to do, then that math just doesn't math.

5:41 And that's where the Austin experience might get

5:44 interesting because he's coming off a very good year.

5:47 I understand the playoffs were tough for him.

5:50 Uh but other executives, you know,

5:52 during the course of the season had kind of projected that this could

5:56 be a guy that that is in the mid $30 million range,

5:58 maybe all the way up to $40 million.

6:00 That's just not the kind of money the Lakers

6:02 can give him and have a balanced roster.

6:05 So that's kind of the fork in the road they're looking at.

6:07 All right, Sam Amik here on the Rich Eisen Show from the Athletic.

6:12 The Giannis trade window is officially open.

6:16 Are is this finally happening where he's ready for it?

6:20 Bucks are eager to do it.

6:22 Um, is this happening, Sam?

6:24 Is it on?

6:26 This is happening.

6:26 It's it's all these years later, it's all the, you know,

6:29 admittedly all the years of Bucks fans yelling at us,

6:32 media types, and and acting like there was nothing to see here and that we were,

6:35 you know, creating this fiction.

6:37 Um, it it was a slow burn.

6:40 We we've you know I know everybody's had Giannis exhaustion when it comes

6:43 to you know the the way this has gone down the past couple of years.

6:47 The the thing that is so different Rich right now uh and that makes

6:51 it very transparent is that the Bucks are just shouting it in the streets.

6:55 You know Jimmy has on their owner does

6:57 an interview the other day on the day that they

6:59 introduced Taylor Jenkins as their coach and and just

7:02 flat out says you know two very important things.

7:04 One um we'll see if Giannis is on the team.

7:07 just kind of acknowledging that elephant in the room.

7:09 And then two, that he expects clarity before the draft, which is June 23rd.

7:14 And so with that in mind, you're talking, you know, we're already in midMay.

7:18 Um, you know, that's again part of being out here is for me to try to find out,

7:22 uh, where are those conversations going?

7:25 And and it'll be so interesting because so far Giannis is not

7:30 putting his foot on the scale in terms of saying, "All right,

7:33 these are the only three teams that I will play for." Um it it's a bit

7:36 of an open market and the market I think is going to be really healthy.

7:40 I wrote about this a couple days ago like

7:42 these playoffs have been very advantageous for the Bucks.

7:46 If you look at all the different

7:48 teams that had disappointing ends to their seasons,

7:51 the vast majority of them who fell short of expectations

7:54 are teams that could use a guy like Giannis.

7:56 And so that helps the market.

7:58 So their GM John Horus is going to have I

8:00 think you know a bunch of options to choose from.

8:03 At some point, uh, Giannis is going to look at that whole landscape and say,

8:07 "Okay, that's nice, but you know,

8:09 these are the only ones that I'm going to think about signing an extension

8:12 with." And and so then it'll get limited and and we'll see where he lands.

8:15 But but yes, it is uh it is happening and it's wide open.

8:18 Do you want to take a shot on what the limited list looks like?

8:22 Well, I mean, last time around at the trade deadline, you know,

8:24 we were talking Minnesota, Golden State, um, the Knicks, and Miami.

8:28 Now, the Knicks didn't get involved.

8:30 They they felt good about their team at that time.

8:32 Uh the other three teams certainly got involved and and remain interested.

8:36 Now the Minnesota's in the middle of of their push.

8:39 Uh technically speaking,

8:40 can't talk to the Bucks yet because their season hasn't ended.

8:43 Golden State and Miami uh you know are

8:46 absolutely going to be banging down that door.

8:48 The Knicks one remains interesting because they look fantastic right now.

8:53 But you got to remember the backdrop and the fact

8:55 that in terms of teams that Giannis has actually

8:58 showed substantive interest in joining that list so far has

9:02 only been one team long and that was the Knicks.

9:05 And this was, you know, last summer when there was a late summer discussion

9:08 between the two teams that was prompted by, you know,

9:11 kind of how he saw the landscape.

9:13 Nothing actually transpired.

9:15 But don't forget about that.

9:16 if the Knicks fall short, that could get louder.

9:19 Um, you know, from there and to be careful and mindful of, you know,

9:24 like the disconnect at times between what Giannis

9:26 really wants and what people around the NBA say.

9:29 You know, we we are guilty a lot of times

9:31 of speaking for guys and and not getting it straight from them.

9:34 But there is an idea that he would rather play in the East because we

9:38 see what OKC and San Antonio are

9:40 doing right now and and that's pretty challenging.

9:43 Um, you know, and so that if that is the case,

9:45 that would cut out a lot of the market and and you kind of go from there.

9:49 Okay.

9:50 Sam A here on the Rich Eisen Show.

9:52 Who else is going to be hitting it?

9:55 Obviously, LeBron and Giannis would be enough,

9:58 but what what's I guess um lower on the marquee that's coming up this summer?

10:04 Well, I mean, it's part of it is that like we don't know what we don't know.

10:07 And I'll go back to that draft thing where

10:08 where and somebody put this idea in my head

10:11 the other day and I thought it was so interesting

10:12 that like they were basically saying trust me, you know,

10:15 it's about to get really wild because if you think you have no optimism or hope

10:21 to go down the tanking road next year to get some of these gamechanging players,

10:26 then you have no choice than to try to get ahead

10:28 of that train and and make a push for certain guys right now.

10:32 So the Cleveland situation still unfolding.

10:35 uh you know, to their credit,

10:36 they're fighting against the Pistons and even this thing up.

10:39 But, you know, if if they fall flat in this round,

10:41 if if Donovan Mitchell continues to to not be able to get

10:44 to the conference finals and James Harden and that that, you know,

10:48 alleged solution didn't pay off the way they had hoped, uh Donovan, you know,

10:51 is he's got an extension this summer that he's got to make a decision on.

10:55 Kind of an identical situation to Giannis in that regard,

10:59 just not necessarily the the acrimony between the two parties.

11:02 Um, you know, Kawhi Leonard is is another

11:05 name that comes to mind that the Clippers

11:07 get that lottery ball luck the other day and and land a number five pick.

11:11 How does that change how they see, you know,

11:13 the more kind of veteran star on their roster and and Kawawaii

11:16 to some degree was already in play back at the trade deadline?

11:20 It's, you know, been reported that that the Warriors

11:22 were kicking the tires on that.

11:23 So, um, you know, again, it's just it's all about avenues for these teams

11:28 to catch up to the elite and, uh,

11:30 and there's only so many so many ways to do it.

11:32 Well, I'm loathed to follow up here in this way, but I'll do it anyway, Sam,

11:36 because the the new anti-tanking way of handling

11:41 the lottery was so difficult for fans to take in.

11:45 I mean, the relegation zone was my favorite part of it.

11:48 Um, where the top three now have for the first time in North American sports,

11:53 the teams with the worst records do not have the best

11:55 chance of getting the first few picks in in a draft.

12:00 Um, but best you can explain it,

12:04 why are these anti-tanking rules now in the first few weeks of being introduced

12:09 and consumed by front office is going

12:12 to wind up with blockbuster trades as the result,

12:15 which I'm sure the league would love to have like

12:17 making the summer more exciting and the season more more competitive.

12:21 That's that's a win.

12:22 Those are wins.

12:23 How no, they that is it's funny you it's funny you mentioned it.

12:27 It's always been this misnomer about the rumor mill is that people

12:31 assume incorrectly that the NBA doesn't love the NBA loves it.

12:34 And so, yes, you're dead on about how

12:36 they would react to a summer of of fireworks.

12:39 But how it works is you have a 3-21 lottery ball system,

12:42 and you've already broken down pretty well.

12:44 the bottom three teams, uh, you know, the the tanking teams, so to speak,

12:49 or just the worst teams have the same chances of getting

12:52 the number one pick as the nine and 10 seeds,

12:55 you know, and that tells you all you need to know.

12:58 So, the irony is that, man, they went out with a bang with this current

13:01 system when you got Washington and Utah and Memphis,

13:04 you know, coming up big lotterywise and and getting

13:07 rewarded for the tanking that they did.

13:09 Um, that's exactly what the league is trying to avoid.

13:13 And so it's just about controllables.

13:15 Not to sound like, you know, a boardroom executive, but you know,

13:19 you took a major controllable off

13:21 the table in implementing this anti-tanking approach.

13:25 And considering that free agency, you know,

13:28 draft and trades are the only three ways to build a team.

13:31 Um, taking one-third of those options conceivably off the table as far as being

13:36 to some degree under your control is going to change the way front offices move.

13:40 And so they're going to find new ways to uh to to try to, you know,

13:44 control their own fate.

13:46 What is Sam Prey doing that other teams can't, other franchises can't?

13:50 I mean, little baby.

13:52 I mean, the NFL is a copycat league and one team does well,

13:56 everybody wants to go and do the same thing,

13:58 but I mean, I'm I'm watching, you know, AJ Mitchell,

14:03 and I'm watching, you know, McCain fresh off of the Sixers,

14:07 and I'm watching, you know, two different Jaylen Williams when they're healthy,

14:11 and I'm watching, uh, Hartinstein, uh, you know, uh, Alex Caruso.

14:16 These are not names that you would just off

14:18 with all due respect say that's a championship roster, but it sure as heck is.

14:24 So wh why is it difficult to copycount?

14:27 What is what is Presty doing, Sam?

14:29 It's honestly it's it's hard to describe.

14:31 It's hard to put your finger on.

14:33 It's one of the most impressive things I've

14:35 seen in in 20 years covering the league.

14:37 And I've known Sam a long time.

14:39 And if you would have told me a couple years ago in the post Kevin Durant,

14:43 post Russell Westbrook time that he would find a way to pivot like this, I

14:48 I admittedly wouldn't have thought there was

14:50 a chance in hell because to some degree,

14:53 you know, you felt like the first origin story of the Thunder

14:57 drafting those future Hall of Famers and and Kevin Russ and James Harden,

15:03 there was an element of luck involved and there's no way he could do it twice.

15:06 So, you know, they do the trade with the Clippers where at the time

15:10 there was some discussion about Shay

15:12 Gilchis Alexander being a good young player,

15:15 but by and large, if you go back and and look at the receipts in the media,

15:18 people celebrated the Clippers for getting Kawhi Leonard and Paul George.

15:22 They did not celebrate OKC.

15:24 Uh it's it's just insane that they then

15:28 obviously turned that trade into Sheay into Chad Homegrren.

15:31 Uh but it's not just a matter of that trade.

15:33 They have continued from a talent a talent

15:35 evaluation standpoint to knock it out of the park.

15:38 I mean, AJ Mitchell in the second round,

15:40 I mean, they they've got guys on the bench,

15:42 Aaron Wiggins not even getting time that contributed

15:45 big time to their title last year.

15:47 Um, it's it is a testament to the way they operate.

15:50 And it also cuts into the narrative that the NBA is a obviously

15:56 a big city league and one where the small market teams can't compete.

15:59 I mean, they are out there in the middle of nowhere.

16:01 Uh, I was just there last week getting reminded of of what

16:04 it's like on the Dusty Plains and and they have, you know,

16:07 happy players who are fantastic players in a good environment

16:11 and a good culture for those players and and they're just doing,

16:14 you know, laughs around the rest of the league right now.

16:16 What is Dagno doing?

16:18 What What is he up to?

16:20 Um, I mean, I think that that speaks to again,

16:22 it starts with Sam and the fact that if you go

16:26 back and look at the way Mark was elevated within their program,

16:29 he coaches their G-League team at first, uh, you know, for a couple of years,

16:34 but he also is a is a a mentee of Billy Donovan from the Florida days.

16:40 And I mean, it's a developmental system for the coach.

16:43 Uh it's funny, Rich, as a quick aside, you know,

16:46 you you you're familiar with the annual anonymous

16:50 player poll that we do at our place.

16:52 Uh we we have our last edition coming out tomorrow

16:55 and there was a question asked that was asking 161 players,

17:00 where do smart teams invest money outside of player contracts?

17:04 It's which is, you know, I thought a good question.

17:07 And out of all those answers,

17:09 it it jumped out at me that literally one player out of 161 said

17:14 the coach and and it just showed you like that they they don't players,

17:19 you know, don't truly understand the impact of the coach.

17:21 Sam Prey does and and he found a guy that he thought

17:24 had potential and he groomed him and and it's worked out well.

17:27 Um I mean, you know, we could go on and on.

17:30 Mark's got a great way about him with his group.

17:32 He's a humble guy.

17:33 Uh he doesn't want to be in the spotlight.

17:35 Um, I did an interview with him once.

17:38 It was a one-on-one and he didn't know the interview

17:40 was going to be featured with just him and and he

17:44 wasn't real thrilled with that because he makes a point

17:46 to to let his players be the ones out front.

17:48 And, you know, again,

17:49 that's kind of part of the the whole operation they're running out there.

17:52 So, he was flopping in the interview.

17:53 Is that what you're saying, Sam?

17:54 So, he was the interview was it was his fault.

17:57 He was so good that I was like, man,

17:58 I'm gonna break this out, you know, but he he didn't like the shine.

18:01 It's unbelievable.

18:02 Last one for you.

18:03 Steve Kerr resigned.

18:04 Why?

18:05 What's the story behind that?

18:08 I mean, you know, not to be uh glib with it,

18:11 but because roughly $20 million is a whole lot

18:13 more than the seven or eight that that your network,

18:16 I believe, was putting in front of him.

18:17 So, that's part of it.

18:19 Um I think because Steph Curry is

18:21 a wonderful partner to enjoy this basketball game

18:25 with and Steve wasn't ready to walk away from that and then and this was,

18:30 you know, a big part of the delay.

18:32 I don't know all the details of how those meetings went with Joe Leob

18:36 and Kirk Lake and Mike Dunlevy over the course of the past three weeks,

18:39 but Steve needed to hear confidence and uh regarding alignment of vision

18:44 um you know their spirit together and kind of their relationships.

18:48 They've been through a lot.

18:49 they've accomplished a lot.

18:50 But when you see, you know, Bob Myers leave the GM post a couple years ago um

18:55 for reasons that were partly related to the the interpersonal dynamics,

18:59 you kind of understand that there was a chance

19:01 that Steve was going to do the same thing,

19:03 but obviously he felt good enough about where they're

19:05 at as a group and and they felt the same way.

19:07 So So two more years with with Steve

19:09 and there's no spidey sense that LeBron's on the way.

19:12 So that would be a bad that would be a good idea to stay put, Sam.

19:16 Maybe.

19:17 No, I mean, you know, I mean, it's Listen,

19:19 they are they are going to be pulling out all the stops to do something.

19:22 They they know, you know,

19:24 we talked Lakers at the top, Rich, like desperation meter.

19:27 It's Lakers and Warriors are in the same neighborhood right now.

19:31 They they know that Steph, as mildmannered as he is and as chill as he is,

19:35 he's he's not happy, not being in contention.

19:38 He's not going to be okay just coasting down the back end of his career.

19:42 So whether it's LeBron, whether it's Giannis, whether it's Kawhai,

19:45 I mean they're going to be making all of the phone calls.

19:47 All right.

19:47 Uh if anybody's found your wallet, where should they return it, Sam?

19:50 The Athletic Marquee front desk.

19:54 Ladies and gentlemen, Sam, everybody, let's let's help Sam out.

19:58 Thanks for the time, man.

19:59 Always love it.

20:00 Uh look for more of my uh my text to you, sir.

20:02 Thank you.

20:03 Love it.

20:03 Thanks for Sam A.

20:04 must follow, must readad from the athletic senior NBA writer.

20:08 Hey, you made it all the way to the end.

20:09 Thanks for that.

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