EXPOSED: How Trump Secretly Profited Billions from the Presidency

0:00 Welcome to the Terara Palm Mary show.

0:03 We have Isaac Saul from Tangle on the line.

0:07 And the reason that we have Isaac on is because he has a a really hardening

0:13 investigation born out of 15 months of reporting

0:17 on how President Trump has profited from the presidency.

0:22 Isaac, you must be able to add vast numbers because it's overwhelming.

0:29 When I was reading your reporting,

0:31 I was just like 6,000 words and it is it's jaw-dropping.

0:38 So, thank you for coming on the show and thank you for your hard work.

0:40 We all appreciate this kind of accountability journalism.

0:43 I think it's why so many people come to the Tangle

0:45 and why they come to the Red Letter and the Tower Mary show.

0:49 Yeah, thanks for having me.

0:50 And to be clear, I mean, it's uh it's the reporting of a lot of people.

0:55 I mean, there's been so many stories out there from the Wall Street Journal,

0:59 the New York Times to Fox News to Bloomberg of people just trying to keep

1:04 track and keep up with the insane

1:06 amount of selfdealing that we've been witnessing.

1:08 And I think I was probably the first person to put it all in one place.

1:12 Um, but there's been a a a group effort, I would say,

1:16 from people across the political spectrum and in many different newsrooms trying

1:20 to make sense of what we've seen the first year and a half.

1:23 It's kind of like the Panama Papers, but they keep getting bigger and bigger.

1:28 Um, and it's our president.

1:29 I mean, it's insane.

1:31 Uh, I I commend you for putting this all together.

1:33 I know it took a lot of work.

1:36 I don't even know where to start.

1:38 You know, you look at things like the fact

1:39 that he has $23 million in licensing deals right now.

1:44 Uh Melania has a movie.

1:45 She got paid $28 million by Bezos who wants government contracts for SpaceX.

1:50 No antitrust regulations.

1:51 He doesn't want them to raise the cost of the postage.

1:54 The $400 million guitar plane.

1:56 I mean, cryptocurrency alone,

1:59 how much money they've made by launching their own cryptocurrency.

2:03 The fact that Jared Kushner is jet

2:07 setting around the world conducting foreign policy unelected,

2:10 not a public servant,

2:11 and yet also raising five billion dollars for his private equity firm.

2:15 This is the man who was supposed to save us in the midst of a Iran war.

2:18 I mean, there is so much corruption.

2:21 And we're going to talk about this all.

2:23 We're also going to talk about the Biden of it all because

2:25 this is not the beginning of families making money off of their presidency.

2:29 But this seems to be so egregious and it's nothing is happening.

2:34 Nothing is being done about it.

2:35 The same Congress that was trying to impeach Joe Biden over Hunter Biden,

2:41 which totally fair what Hunter was doing and Jim Biden, frankly,

2:44 his brother too, you know, making money off this healthcare business.

2:48 It's horrendous.

2:49 But we'll get into all of that and more.

2:52 I don't Where would you start?

2:53 Where do you What do you think is

2:55 the most corrupt thing President Trump has done?

2:56 Where do you think he is making the most money right now?

2:59 And maybe let's start there.

3:01 Yeah.

3:01 I mean, look, I first of all,

3:02 I think it's pretty hard to just pick one thing or the other.

3:05 I mean, there are sentences in this 6,000word piece that I think in an era,

3:11 a bygone era of four years ago

3:14 would have dominated for an entire presidential term

3:17 and there would have been months and months and months of news cycles about it.

3:20 And in my story, it's one or two sentences.

3:23 I mean, just the president's the the best example

3:25 to just draw the parallel between Hunter Biden and what

3:28 we're witnessing now is the president's sons are invested

3:32 in businesses that are landing Pentagon contracts with the federal government.

3:38 You know, Hunter Biden, we were up in arms, I think,

3:41 rightfully about him making $50,000 a month

3:44 from a Ukrainian energy firm to sit on their board

3:48 in what was clearly some concocted seat

3:50 for access to uh pres Vice President Joe Biden.

3:54 This is the president's son having holdings and investments in companies

3:59 that are taking multi-million dollar contracts with the federal government.

4:04 So, they're making money off of selling their dad contracts

4:08 in businesses they're invested in and they're working for, you know,

4:11 the Trump Organization,

4:13 which is the business that President Donald Trump himself alo also profits from.

4:17 I mean, it's it's mindboggling.

4:19 U for me personally, I mean,

4:21 the cryptocurrency stuff is the thing that's just hardest to accept.

4:26 I mean the just the reality of it a as somebody who has sort

4:30 of followed the space and um I think

4:32 understands it maybe more than the average person.

4:35 We're seeing the president do some

4:37 of the most sort of cliche scammy rugpuly stuff.

4:42 You know starting a shitcoin basically that he inflates the value of by hyping

4:47 up getting a bunch of people his supporters to invest in it.

4:51 watching the price of that memecoin skyrocket and then basically selling a bunch

4:56 of it at a cool profit and all the people who came in, you know,

5:00 on the back half of the memecoin's existence just lose their shirts.

5:04 The value of it has now fallen something like 97%.

5:07 Yeah.

5:07 There's like So there's real people who probably

5:09 love the president who put in thousands of dollars,

5:12 bought up this memecoin thinking it was going to be

5:14 this incredible investment and then lost all of their money.

5:19 uh the the fact that the crypto, you know, the crypto stuff doesn't stop there.

5:23 The president also has this huge crypto firm,

5:26 World Liberty Financial, that the Trump family is running together,

5:30 which has been used to solicit hundreds

5:33 of millions of dollars from foreign countries,

5:36 from foreign adversaries in some case,

5:38 from people who clearly want to score favors with the president.

5:42 And we don't have a good way to track or account for any of that money.

5:45 You know, people I know Trump supporters who are

5:49 my readers who were upset that Barack Obama got rich,

5:52 you know, in his postpresidentidency life or towards the end of his presidency.

5:55 It's like, well, we know how he made his money.

5:58 He took book deals.

6:00 He got a Netflix deal.

6:01 There there's, you know,

6:02 there's taxes that he's filed that we can look at to see

6:06 how his wealth went from one to $50 million or whatever.

6:09 With the cryptocurrency stuff with Trump, it's very opaque.

6:13 We just know that the money is coming in and then

6:16 decisions and deals are being made with the same

6:18 people who are injecting that cash into these cryptocurrency firms

6:22 which again is just like an astonishing level of selfdealing

6:27 and also again the opacity for us the the audience

6:32 the Americans the citizens who are trying to make

6:35 sense of what's going on and can't actually keep track

6:38 of this stuff the selfdeing I mean it's pretty egregious.

6:42 Yeah.

6:43 No, and and this line that you wrote in the piece really resonated with me.

6:48 You said, "I'm disheartened and frustrated

6:50 now to see that right-wingers, Trump's voters,

6:53 Republicans, politicians who cheered me on when

6:55 I was investigating potential Biden corruption,

6:57 are now just ignoring the comparable,

6:59 gargantuum scandals of alleged corruption we're witnessing now." I

7:03 like that you put alleged in brackets, by the way.

7:07 Um, I feel you.

7:09 I mean, when I was covering the Biden administration for Politico,

7:13 I reported on the Biden um Hunter Biden's gun scandal,

7:16 which actually led to a real conviction.

7:19 The fact that he, you know, bought a gun, lied on the form,

7:23 the Secret Service, my reporting told me, tried to get that form back.

7:26 He threw the gun out near a school.

7:28 Um, and just, you know,

7:30 all of the entanglements with like Anita Dunn, this his senior adviser,

7:34 who was a special governmental employee just like Corey Luendowski was,

7:37 meaning that they could also have contracts outside of the White House.

7:40 And um, she didn't have to file public disclosures uh, for her finances.

7:45 And there were so many ways in which the people around Biden were,

7:48 you know, former lobbyists, family members, lobbyists,

7:52 and people were making money, his brother, etc.

7:54 But and the Republicans were up in arms over it and and they

7:58 cheered people on who are truly independent journalists going after it.

8:02 But now it's so blatantly everywhere like you write in your title all at once.

8:06 And yet there is no accountability at all.

8:10 And it it's it's it's mindboggling to me

8:13 and it just it bothers me because it just

8:15 shows you how tribal politics are and that truly

8:18 a lot of people don't care about corruption.

8:21 They just care about whether their party is in power or not.

8:25 Yeah.

8:25 I mean, there's a real I think uh

8:28 calculation being made by Republicans who are in Congress,

8:32 which is they could cross the president.

8:34 I mean, any three or four senators

8:38 or halfozen House Republicans could decide that their integrity

8:43 in this moment matters more than their loyalty

8:46 to the president or that their integrity in this moment matters

8:49 more for the future of the party and the country

8:53 than any potential future election outcome and take

8:57 a risk and help Democrats actually launch some

9:01 investigations and hold some of these people accountable Which,

9:04 by the way, you know, I'm a big critic of Congress and a lot

9:08 of Americans obviously really frustrated with Congress.

9:10 One of the things Congress is good at and has

9:12 power to do is subpoena people is make people testify publicly.

9:17 That is a power that they've actually been pretty

9:19 good at exercising over the last 10, 20, 30 years.

9:22 And we don't have it right now

9:24 because Republicans are in power of both chambers,

9:27 in control of both chambers, and they're refusing to do anything about it.

9:31 They're making the calculation that if they cross Trump,

9:35 he's going to come for them, which is probably true, and he's going to try.

9:39 He has $300 million in a super PAC,

9:40 by the way, and he hasn't spent any money on it.

9:42 And he relishes revenge.

9:44 Like, if there's anything about this administration,

9:46 you saw it in Indiana last week, too.

9:48 They relish revenge.

9:49 You cross him, they enjoy killing you in a primary

9:52 because that is where they know they have their power.

9:55 Yeah.

9:55 So you see, you know,

9:56 you you basically you limit the pool of Republicans who might actually step

10:00 up and do something to senators who have their next election after Trump is

10:05 supposed to leave office in 2028

10:07 or House Republicans who don't actually care about

10:10 getting reelected when they face re-election

10:12 in November or again two years after that.

10:15 And that pool of Republicans is pretty small.

10:17 And none of them so far as, you know,

10:20 as far as I can tell, and I said this in my piece,

10:23 there have not been even strongly worded statements of concern about

10:28 the selfdeing and the potential corruption

10:30 that we're seeing from the Trump administration.

10:33 There's been nothing.

10:34 I mean, total silence.

10:35 Democrats seem overwhelmed.

10:37 They don't really know which story to glob

10:39 on to and try to make a national issue.

10:41 and Republicans are refusing to help in any

10:44 way to bring people forward and subpoena them,

10:47 make them testify publicly, talk about how some of these deals went down.

10:50 So for now, we're just left left with the investigative journalism that we have,

10:55 the people who are so sleuththing online trying to put two and two together

10:59 and the occasional leak or you know court

11:03 case like in the example of World Liberty Financial,

11:06 this crypto firm, Justin Sun, who is now suing the Trump family,

11:10 alleging fraud after he invested in the crypto firm to get

11:14 them to drop an SEC vi uh investigation against him.

11:18 He's now saying that actually this whole thing's fraudulent.

11:20 They're trying to force him to put a bunch of money into a stable coin.

11:24 Maybe a case like that produces some

11:26 documentation that can give us more evidence.

11:28 But these are the kinds of things that we're

11:31 reaching for or hoping for or waiting for because

11:33 we don't have a Congress that's willing to act

11:36 as a check on the president right now.

11:38 And Justin, just to clarify, the Justin Sun case,

11:40 like this was a man who was being investigated

11:42 by the SEC for legitimate fraud in the crypto space.

11:46 He only had to pay a $10 million fine,

11:48 which is way less than what he owed, right?

11:51 And that is only because the Trumps tried

11:52 to bring him in into their crypto scheme,

11:56 and then they they had a disagreement and they're pushing him out now.

11:59 And so now he's willing to testify against Trump.

12:02 It's it's kind of insane.

12:05 I mean, the way that they're willing

12:07 to just deal with these fraudsters and grifters, the pardon system, too.

12:11 I mean it is a payfor-play pardon system is shocking.

12:15 It is shocking.

12:17 Yeah.

12:17 I I would add one more thing about the the World Liberty financial

12:21 story too which is the other crazy thing that happened aside from the Trump

12:27 administration taking this money from Justin

12:28 Sun and then magically his SEC investigation

12:31 disappears and then Justin Sun comes back and accuses and sues them for fraud.

12:37 is that the Trump administration also found themselves

12:40 in this very peculiar spot where they had sanctioned

12:44 a bunch of people for this transnational criminal syndicate

12:48 that was using cryptocurrency to scam millions of Americans.

12:53 And then a month after they sanctioned all these people,

12:56 World Liberty Financial inadvertently hired two

13:00 of the people that the Trump administration had sanctioned.

13:03 So, the Trump administration announces

13:05 criminal charges against the transnational criminal

13:07 syndicate for stealing billions of dollars from Americans and online scams.

13:11 A month later, two of the people that Trump sanctioned

13:15 are now partnering with Trump and his family's cryptocurrency company.

13:20 I mean, it's crazy.

13:22 It's like there you really do kind of run like gobsmacking,

13:26 mind-boggling, insane.

13:27 What you just run out of words to describe this sort of stuff.

13:30 And yes, the pardon scheme, the pardon economy as it's being called now

13:34 that the administration is swimming in has only gotten worse.

13:38 I mean, there was that insane statistic after the first

13:41 term that Trump was president where he had pardoned, I think,

13:44 more than half of all the Republican congressmen who had

13:47 ever been convicted of federal crimes uh in the 21st century.

13:52 And he hasn't slowed down.

13:53 Now, he is basically operating in this system

13:56 where if somebody has a few million dollars

13:59 and they're in jail or they have some

14:02 something on their record they want off their record,

14:04 they can take that money, go to somebody in Trump's orbit,

14:08 give them money for them to lobby the president for a pardon,

14:11 and they will, and it's working.

14:13 And Trump gets asked about some of these people who he's pardoning,

14:16 and he says things like, "I don't know who that is.

14:19 I've never heard of them." which itself is a pretty damning answer.

14:23 If it's true, it means that he's pardoning people

14:26 who he doesn't take the time to meet or understand,

14:28 you know, he's just doing what he's being asked

14:30 to do because somebody's been paid money to lobby him.

14:33 Or if it's not true,

14:34 he's lying to the American public about how he's making these decisions,

14:38 which, you know, itself is also a damning admission as well.

14:42 And the examples are so egregious.

14:45 I mean, you know, the the exact kind of scum and swamp that Trump said

14:50 that he was going to drain in 2016 and again in 2020 and again in 2024.

14:54 I mean, it's members of Congress stealing money from their donors.

14:58 It's people stealing money from Medicare.

15:00 It's investors creating fake videos of functioning trucks and taking

15:04 a bunch of people's money to invest in their truck company.

15:08 And then it turns out the videos are actually not real trucks.

15:11 They're trucks rolling down hills.

15:13 and then those people owe hundreds of millions of dollars to all

15:16 these investors they scammed and Trump

15:18 pardons them and wipes the restitution out.

15:20 I mean, it's these kinds of things that he's doing.

15:23 Um, and it's hard to get the public to care about and I can't say exactly why.

15:28 Yeah.

15:28 I mean, according to the Wall Street Journal, he told a group of people,

15:35 "I'll pardon everyone who has come within 200

15:38 feet of the oval." If that isn't a payforplay, I don't know what else is.

15:43 I mean, Pam Bondi's brother gets a part in.

15:47 You mentioned that there was this uh company that was

15:50 frauding investors saying that they had this truck that they

15:53 were building and and the video that they showed

15:55 was footage of the truck just rolling down a hill, not actually moving.

15:59 Yeah.

15:59 Trevor Milton, who donated $1.8 million to Trump's re-election fund in 2024.

16:05 He was found guilty of securities and wire fraud for lying

16:09 to investors about basically every single

16:12 thing about this company and its technology.

16:14 Making Elizabeth Holmes but worse almost.

16:17 Yeah.

16:17 Yeah.

16:17 I mean, he and the thing that he

16:18 became famous for was that he literally showed investors

16:22 a video of this truck that the company had

16:25 built with its technology inside that he said was functional.

16:29 And he raised money off this promo video of the truck.

16:32 And then it turned out that the truck was actually just rolling down

16:35 a hill in the video and it wasn't actually driving on its own.

16:38 And after he got convicted, this case went to trial.

16:41 He owed $676 million in restitution to the victims of his scheme.

16:47 Trump, who pardoned him, wiped that restitution out.

16:50 And this guy, Trevor Milton,

16:53 his defense attorney was Pam Bonnie, the former attorney general's brother.

16:57 Trump got asked about the pardon and he said he'd never

17:00 heard of him until somebody recommended his pardon and added they say

17:04 the thing that he did wrong was that he was one

17:06 of the first people that supported a gentleman named Donald Trump for president.

17:10 So in Trump's mind he was just supporting some guy who supported him

17:15 and he doesn't care that you know people were owed $676 million in restitution.

17:21 He doesn't care that this guy is a huge fraudster.

17:23 He doesn't care that the only reason he's getting the pardon

17:26 is because he has this connection to the attorney general.

17:28 He just hears that the guy supported him and so he gives him a pardon.

17:32 And these are the kinds of people that Trump has let off

17:35 the hook in his first term and now again in his second term.

17:38 And it includes a lot of Republican members of Congress

17:41 or former Republican members of Congress who have committed fraud.

17:44 you know, most notoriously probably now is George Santos,

17:47 who we all know lied about basically everything involving his personal story,

17:52 defrauded donors, got kicked out of Congress by his own

17:56 party because it was so grotesque all the things he'd done,

17:59 and then went to jail and Trump just pardoned him, you know,

18:02 because Santos beat the drum of being a Trump

18:04 supporter and uh that seems to work on the president.

18:08 Yeah.

18:08 Uh, and also Santos is now going on to allegedly on to hosting a reality show.

18:15 He also helped the Cresleys who were um the Cresley family,

18:19 a part of a reality show as well.

18:20 I'm not a big reality TV fan to be honest, so I don't know all of it,

18:23 but I think a lot of it is that Trump sees himself as the ultimate victim.

18:27 He thinks all the cases that were tried against him, he was innocent.

18:31 anyone else who faces any sort of I don't know uh

18:35 prosecution by the justice department that doesn't have an R next

18:38 to their name or Trump or MAGA supporting they are you know

18:42 they are they are innocent like he is it's it's really quite

18:46 an interesting way to perceive um the justice department and the idea

18:52 of uh justice for all not for just Trump's friends um

18:56 why is this criminal behavior being done openly and nobody is calling

18:59 it out why is Trump and family allowed to commit financial crimes?

19:03 It's a great question, right?

19:05 I mean, I think it's because we are so overwhelmed

19:10 with the deluge of corruption and news and war and, you know,

19:16 the whiplash of tariffs and just the the way that Trump operates.

19:22 That's how he's able to get away with it all.

19:23 Also, Democrats, I mean, I would say that they are not great at messaging.

19:29 They don't have subpoena power right now, but if they win the election,

19:33 which they probably will, um, the 2026 election,

19:36 they'll have the ability to launch investigations.

19:38 And what do you think they should focus on first?

19:40 Like, what would be a slam dunk and would and attract the attention

19:44 of the American people enough so that they would see that this is egregious?

19:49 Like, it took a pedophile sex ring to get America riled up, right?

19:54 like can we get them all so riled up about the idea of people

19:57 committing vast um financial crimes to enrich

20:03 themselves at the highest level of power?

20:06 Well, I think I think a couple things.

20:08 One, I agree I you know about uh sort

20:11 of the this the kind of fatigue I think people have with the news.

20:14 I mean, I generally speaking I and I did a follow-up

20:18 to this piece after reading a lot of people's response.

20:21 I think the the the most common threads I

20:23 heard from people who were saying they didn't care.

20:25 They had a hard time getting upset was being upset doesn't

20:28 seem to change anything for the people who opposed the president.

20:31 For the people who support him,

20:33 their view is just this kind of nihilistic the system was already corrupted.

20:37 Look at what Biden did.

20:38 Look at what Obama did.

20:39 Trump's just doing it better than the rest of them.

20:42 And you're just upset about him sort

20:44 of winning in the game that everybody plays.

20:46 So you have to sort of come into it

20:48 with this belief that Washington DC is totally

20:51 corrupt and all these people are totally corrupt

20:52 and self-deing which by the way is not true.

20:55 I mean it's it's not that it doesn't happen.

20:57 Of course it happens.

20:58 But Trump's not the first super wealthy politician.

21:01 I mean he has wealth an order of magnitude larger than any

21:04 president we've ever had and of most other politicians we've ever seen.

21:08 But there are a lot of politicians who come into office worth millions

21:12 and millions of dollars who don't go on to profit from their time in office.

21:16 And you know, I went through some of these examples in my response piece,

21:20 some of this feedback just to say like I'm as cynical about DC as anybody,

21:24 but let's not let it get so absurd that you

21:27 just sort of caricature everybody in Washington DC as being,

21:31 you know, guilty fraudster criminals, whatever.

21:33 It's that's not actually true.

21:34 There are people who are good people trying

21:36 to follow the law, do the right thing.

21:38 In terms of what Democrats should focus on, I mean,

21:40 if you want to steal the playbook from how successful Republicans were,

21:44 I think you start with the Suns.

21:46 I mean, I think you start with Don Jr.

21:48 and Eric Trump and all these companies that they're invested

21:50 in that are approaching the federal government and getting these government

21:55 contracts where they then inflate their wealth and the value

21:58 of these companies and make money back on those deals.

22:01 I think that is the most straightforward

22:04 sort of quid proquo corruption that's happening.

22:07 I think it has really similar contours

22:09 to what we saw with Hunter Biden and Barisma.

22:13 And I think it puts Republicans in the most

22:15 difficult position possible on the talking points,

22:18 which is like how could this be unacceptable?

22:20 I mean, the the reality of what Hunter Biden

22:22 did and the worst of what Hunter Biden did was that he was trying to set up post

22:27 vice presidency deals for his dad to profit from.

22:31 I mean, that was the core accusation.

22:33 This is happening while Trump is in office.

22:35 He's president, not vice president.

22:37 And it's happening with American tax dollars.

22:40 I mean, these are government contracts that we all pay into that are

22:44 being awarded to the president's son's companies that they're invested in.

22:48 And then of course that money makes its way into the Trump organization.

22:52 So to me that's the most straightforward one because the cryptocurrency stuff

22:57 as much as I loathe it personally is kind of complicated and if

23:01 you're not somebody who has you know taken your foray into crypto

23:05 or own some of it or understand how the blockchain works or whatever,

23:09 you just end up doing a lot of explaining.

23:11 It's it's a lot less complicated than, oh,

23:13 the Trump sons are invested in this company

23:15 and Trump is awarding them government contracts that are worth tens of millions

23:20 of dollars that they make money off of.

23:22 Um, so I would start there.

23:23 And then I think the second thing that's probably

23:25 most resonant for the Trump audience and the proTrump supporters,

23:31 it's the Jared Kushner stuff.

23:33 It is that I was gonna say that the Jared Kushner.

23:36 I do think that the Iran war just feels so close and like

23:39 like it has this kind of fissure in it that makes people very

23:43 angry that we're involved in a war and that Jared Kushner has been

23:47 the the wheeler and dealer the entire

23:49 time trying to make money while negotiating.

23:53 It's crazy.

23:53 I mean the the the the story is straightforward.

23:57 I mean, we have we have stuff that we blanks we have to fill

24:00 in, but Jared Kushner is the chief negotiator to end the Iran war.

24:06 And around the negotiating table is a country like Saudi Arabia,

24:11 Iran's chief nemesis in the region,

24:14 who is also pouring billions of dollars into Jared Kushner's companies.

24:19 So, what is he incentivized to do?

24:22 He's incentivized to do what Saudi Arabia wants him to do,

24:25 which is to keep the United States in the war.

24:28 That's what Saudi Arabia wants.

24:29 They want us to crush Iran.

24:31 And that's exactly what we're doing.

24:33 Whether we're doing that because the Saudi negotiators want it or not,

24:36 of course, is an open question.

24:39 But in terms of communicating this to the public, it's really straightforward.

24:42 the chief negotiator is taking billions of dollars

24:45 of money from one of the stakeholders at the table.

24:49 And we also happen to be doing exactly what that stakeholder wants,

24:52 which by the way is something many Trump supporters don't want.

24:55 They don't want us to be in this war.

24:57 It is the kind of military adventurism that Trump ran

24:59 against in 2016 and 2020 and 2024, and we're doing it.

25:03 So, yeah, I mean, I imagine that story would be salient if you

25:08 could be simple with the messaging and maybe haul some people before Congress.

25:12 And I think Democrats will try and do that.

25:14 Um, but there's a lot we don't know which makes it a little trickier.

25:18 Also, Jared Kushner is like a prince

25:20 princling little boogeyman kind of I could see.

25:23 Um, for Democrats, his coziness with Israel, you know, there's a lot there.

25:29 But, you know, I was in the United Emirates,

25:34 the United Arab Emirates earlier in January.

25:37 I spoke at a conference um which

25:39 was hosted essentially by the UAE government billions.

25:44 I didn't I wasn't paid to speak there,

25:46 but Lara Trump was there and she spoke and I'm

25:48 almost certainly I'm almost certain she she was paid to speak.

25:52 And then you know I watched as what she did um for the rest of her tour.

25:57 I mean, she and Eric stopped in the UAE at various um properties

26:05 that the Trump family has either licensed

26:07 or formed partnerships with in the country.

26:10 They obviously have this huge crypto deal with the United Arab um Emirates,

26:15 $5 million in an $500 million investment in World

26:20 Liberty Financial from the UAE Royal Shake Tanoon Bins.

26:24 I'm not even going to try.

26:25 But the point is that the government the people like

26:28 everything is the government is everything in the UAE, right?

26:31 Like there is no separation between the 12

26:35 families that rule that place and the government.

26:39 And you know, I just couldn't help but see that she was taking Instagram photos.

26:44 It was all on display.

26:45 It was all so obvious.

26:47 And then they moved on to Saudi Arabia

26:48 where they also have a number of developments.

26:50 And I guess this has always been happening with the Trump real estate.

26:53 like there's always been wheeling and dealing

26:55 around the world while he was in office.

26:57 I mean he wants to get the post office back which was a huge I mean the word

27:01 behind all this is the imalments clause right

27:03 and the idea of enriching yourself while you are president

27:07 and it was pretty easy to see it when he owned a he owned a hotel when he was

27:11 president the first term and foreign dignitaries could rent

27:15 it out and he made money off of it and no I mean I

27:21 it's so funny they're not even hiding it

27:23 the $500,000 club membership ship to the executive

27:27 club that the that the um that his son launched on Junior in Washington.

27:33 I mean that's grievous for Washington that fee

27:36 and it's just a bunch of lobbyists who want access cabinet members

27:41 who want access and I do think there is you know

27:43 the the brazeness is part of the secret sauce in my opinion.

27:48 I mean, and this is a point I made to some of, again,

27:53 I have a pretty diverse audience politically,

27:55 so I heard from a lot of Trump supporters who were upset with the framing

27:58 of the piece and how I wrote it and question the underlying facts.

28:02 To which I just said, Trump's not denying this.

28:05 The the president's been straightforward.

28:08 Yeah.

28:08 He said, "I tried during the first term to separate the business and I tried

28:12 to get the kids to separate the business." which like I I question that premise,

28:17 but that's his view of things is he tried

28:19 to do that during the first term and quote, "We got no credit for it." So,

28:23 we found out nobody really cares and so

28:25 we're not even bothering this time around.

28:26 I mean, in so many words,

28:28 that's what he told the New York Times in an interview that was public recorded.

28:32 You can go read the transcript.

28:34 And I think that basically says it all.

28:36 You know, their view is, "We did our best first time around.

28:40 Nobody gave us credit for it.

28:42 So now what do we care?

28:43 we're just going to do whatever we want.

28:45 And you know, the the proof's in the pudding.

28:47 I mean, they are making handover fist billions of dollars.

28:51 Their net worth is exploding.

28:53 A lot of that has been on the back of the cryptocurrency stuff,

28:56 which by the way is now worth

28:57 more than their entire real estate portfolio combined.

29:00 I mean, it is mind-boggling, gobsmacking, crazy,

29:05 insane, whatever word you want to use.

29:07 And uh there doesn't seem to be any imminent punishment for this.

29:10 I mean, I think odds are they're going to leave office

29:14 just way richer and having moved the Overton window on what's acceptable,

29:18 which, you know, again, to me, this isn't just about Trump.

29:21 Of course, I want to stop it with Trump in this administration.

29:24 But it's about the president for the future presidencies.

29:27 Like, you know, what happens if Mark Cuban

29:30 runs on the Democratic ticket and becomes president?

29:32 Are are we just going to be cool with Mark Cuban using the presidency?

29:36 Like are are Republicans going to be okay with Mark

29:38 Cuban using the presidency to gallivance across the world,

29:41 land a bunch of licensing deals,

29:42 make billions upon billions of dollars of more money?

29:44 I don't think Mark Cuban would do that.

29:46 But like that is the door we are opening if we're comfortable with this.

29:50 And um I think we have to close it soon or we're in big trouble.

29:54 The whole thing about it is that if you're unapologetic,

29:57 it makes people wonder if they're doing anything wrong.

29:59 And if you're doing it in the open, it's like he's like, "Okay, who cares?

30:03 What are you going to do about it?" You know what I'm saying?

30:05 like that that is what is happening.

30:08 So, and I do think the crypto space is a little challenging to understand.

30:14 It's not the easiest space.

30:15 And so, sometimes I point to just more basic licensing

30:19 deals like Trump mobile that that you point out and

30:24 the Bibles and the sneakers and the watches and, you know,

30:27 it's a little bit easier to digest for people

30:29 or even just hosting the G20 at Trump Dall.

30:32 And I think I I know you're right that they will become the richest

30:37 from this crypto deal and that is where they're p getting most of their money.

30:43 But for Democrats, if they do want to tell the story

30:46 of the enrichment of the Trump family through the presidency,

30:49 they're going to have to pick some like more tangible,

30:51 they need to know how to tell a story.

30:53 And I actually don't think they do a great job of telling stories right now.

30:57 I agree.

30:57 I mean, the Republican party, um,

31:00 one of the things that I give them credit for often because, I mean,

31:04 A, my politics are all over the place, and B,

31:06 I like it when the federal government moves slow.

31:09 Republican party is incredibly talented as a minority party.

31:12 They know how to obstruct.

31:14 They know how to message even when they're not in power.

31:17 They know how to slow things down or make

31:19 big stories even when they don't have the subpoena power.

31:21 And again, we saw it during the Biden administration when

31:24 they were the minority party and they were able to make

31:26 a lot of noise around a few big issues

31:29 that helped them electorally and made the Biden administration think twice.

31:33 Democrats seem a little bit more

31:35 dysfunctional and discombobulated in this moment.

31:38 And they don't seem to have clear messaging around this.

31:40 I mean, I saw there was a press release

31:43 and maybe some subpoenas around stuff related to the ballroom,

31:47 which like I get it.

31:48 It's egregious.

31:49 and Trump said that he was going to do it with privately funded dollars

31:53 and now he's taking federal dollars to do it and like all that sucks.

31:58 But that's not the kind of thing that I

32:00 think is going to animate and move the general population.

32:03 It's just oh Trump's building an expensive ballroom at the White House.

32:06 It's it's hard to get too animated about that.

32:08 Also, it's like maybe it's justified.

32:10 There should be this place to host events at the White

32:12 House and there should be the secure bunker and whatever.

32:15 um the stuff where it's like the pardons,

32:18 the son's getting money off these government deals.

32:21 Um you know, the the the general premise that the president

32:26 is profiting from these international deals with foreign adversaries,

32:32 sometimes foreign allies, whatever it is,

32:33 but the money's coming in while he's doing business as president.

32:36 That's the kind of straightforward onetoone stuff that I think will resonate.

32:41 Um, and I wish the crypto stuff was easier

32:43 to explain because I do think it's the most egregious,

32:45 but yeah, it's hard to communicate that in a few sentences in a simple way.

32:51 Yeah, I think a number would be really great

32:53 if they could just blare a number and be like, yeah,

32:57 $100 billion is how President Trump has made from the presidency so far.

33:00 Like remember they used to do that with the debt

33:02 and now they just stop the debt thing.

33:04 Republicans used to have that debt um banner of how much money

33:08 were in debt because obviously they put us under the Trump presidency.

33:11 They've increased the debt so dramatically

33:14 it like doesn't really matter anymore.

33:16 Um but how much do you think the Trump has made so far in his presidency?

33:21 Well, the the New York Times did some interesting reporting

33:24 on this and I think the number that they came out with was

33:27 somewhere around $4 billion in terms of how their net worth

33:30 has grown since he left office last time and it's fluctuated.

33:36 You know, I think he came into office

33:38 with something like $3.7 billion was his net worth.

33:42 Um, and now there are all these estimates

33:44 that are maybe in the double digits there.

33:46 But it it is Yeah, I mean it's it's pretty stunning.

33:51 Just again, just the crypto stuff alone.

33:53 I mean, the one Trump memecoin story, the Financial Times estimated that Trump

34:00 pocketed something like $350 million from that.

34:03 And that was just one, you know, Melania had her own memecoin.

34:07 You know, that's not even touching this multi-billion dollar crypto firm.

34:11 It's just he launched a shitcoin, jacked the price up,

34:15 sold a bunch, and pocketed the profits.

34:17 And that alone, you know,

34:19 350ome million dollars according to the Financial Times reporting.

34:24 Um, and again, we were talking about Hunter Biden making $50,000 a month,

34:29 a few million dollars a year from this Barisma stuff.

34:33 And this is the Trump family doing that with one

34:36 memecoin in the span of a few months.

34:38 And now they're, you know, hosting dinners at the White House or Mara Lago,

34:41 or wherever else with all the top holders of the coin, continuing to pump it.

34:45 Um, I mean, yeah, it's it's hard to understand

34:48 how the Overton window moves so fast, but it has.

34:51 And then also just like the random trading that happens

34:54 before President Trump announces that they're going to war with Iran.

34:58 People close to Trump suddenly making a ton of money really bothers me a lot.

35:03 Um, Baron Trump getting in the family business early.

35:08 the young and still in college by the way NYU launching a beverage company

35:13 called Soyos or Solos I don't know how if it's a double L like

35:17 this is the first I've even heard of that and I

35:19 wrote this also I don't even know what you're talking about

35:22 well I'm going to tell you about it okay I go

35:25 a Palm Beachbased startup focused on yerba mate for everyone

35:29 who doesn't know what that is it's a caffeinated herbal tea

35:32 from Peru taking from perhaps he will be importing this from Latin

35:36 America uh Will that country have a better tariff status?

35:41 TBD.

35:42 Um, the company is set to launch its first product,

35:45 a pineapple and coconut flavor.

35:48 That sounds gross.

35:49 Um, gross.

35:51 Sorry, one second.

35:53 Um, in May 2026, targeting the clean and functional energy market.

35:59 I'm not sure that I would trust that.

36:00 He is listed as director and executive officer of the company.

36:07 I don't even want to drink it, but hearing about it felt a little

36:12 I mean, yeah, it's just um that's a good that that is

36:16 actually a really great example a of a story that, you know,

36:20 doesn't even make it mainstream in this moment

36:22 because it's just like another you

36:25 see one post about it on Twitter and you kind of scroll past like,

36:28 oh god, Baron Trump's making money off this.

36:30 Whereas 10 years ago, if that was like one of the Obama kids,

36:33 it would have been everywhere.

36:34 Um, but two is it's a perfect example

36:38 of the sorts of conflicts of interest that come up.

36:40 You you hit the nail right on the head.

36:42 I hear that.

36:42 My immediate thought is tariffs.

36:44 Okay.

36:45 If he's importing all this stuff, how is he going to navigate that?

36:48 And you have to literally think that Trump would say to his son Baron, "Sorry,

36:52 I'm not going to help you with your tariff problem to get

36:55 your cost down on your yerba mate tea you're importing." Of course,

36:59 he's gonna I mean, like, we see it over and over and over again.

37:02 He makes these exceptions for companies that he

37:04 finds particular favor with for whatever reason.

37:07 Um, and I think his youngest son wanting a little help is probably

37:10 a pretty easy layup case where you'd

37:12 see the Trump administration act in some way.

37:15 Um, yeah, there he is.

37:17 I just wanted to throw that picture up because it's ridiculous.

37:20 And oh, there was a great Lego.

37:24 So, I'm obsessed with the le the Iranian Legos.

37:26 And I know I shouldn't be,

37:27 but like they make really good AI content, those Iranians.

37:31 They're just funny.

37:33 They know how to post.

37:34 They have They have sent the message to the world.

37:36 They know how to post with the best of them.

37:38 It's true.

37:39 And the rapping is really good.

37:40 The songs are catchy, you know.

37:43 Um, so they had one recently with the three

37:46 brothers and how much money they're making off the presidency.

37:49 And it was just hilarious.

37:51 Like, and Baron's in there and he's like super tall Lego.

37:55 And it's just all of it is just so grimy, but they they know how to do it.

38:00 Although the catchiest of them all is Epstein Queen that um features Melania.

38:05 It's like Epstein Queen.

38:07 Epstein Queen.

38:09 My um producer Abby,

38:11 she um is horrified that she's Jenzie that I like these Legos so much.

38:16 Um yeah, I'm worried about your mental health, too.

38:19 But it's okay.

38:19 I think we're all going to get through this period at some point.

38:24 Isaac, this was uh great.

38:27 I loved having you on.

38:28 Next time you have a big investigation,

38:29 you're always welcome to come on the Red Letter and the Terara Pul Mary Show.

38:33 Uh we're definitely in alignment on wanting

38:36 to expose corruption no matter where it it lives.

38:40 Um whatever political party, this is not, you know,

38:44 this is about making sure the power is back with the people and that our leaders

38:49 are accountable to us and that they aren't using their roles as public servants.

38:54 After all, they are paid by us to make themselves richer.

38:59 Thanks, Sarah.

39:00 I appreciate you having me on.

39:01 Would love to do it again.

39:02 And uh yeah, keep fighting the good fight.

39:04 Yeah, you too.

39:05 Thanks so much.

39:05 And of course, you can support both of us

39:07 by hitting that subscribe button here at the Red Letter.

39:10 You become a paid subscriber.

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39:17 Tangle Isaac Saul has um a amazing newsletter.

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39:24 Head there, subscribe.

39:26 You can read his latest piece in full.

39:28 Keep us going.

39:29 We're independent journalists.

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