Republicans are FED UP with Trump and Vance Ahead of Midterms
Pod Save America
0:00 Welcome to Pod Save America.
0:01 I'm John Favro.
0:02 I'm Dan Feifer.
0:03 On today's show, the uh JD versus Marco primary
0:06 is heating up and we'll talk about which one
0:08 of them will win the ultimate prize of defending Donald
0:11 Trump's dog approval rating to an angry electorate in 2028.
0:15 Speaking of which, uh, we'll also talk about Republicans voting to spend
0:18 $1 billion of your money on Donald Trump's ballroom.
0:22 Uh, Trump's revenge on the Indiana
0:24 Republicans who blocked his gerrymandering scheme,
0:27 and the latest with Jay Edgar Boozer,
0:29 who's been handing out custom engraved bottles of bourbon
0:33 and threatened to polygraph FBI officials when one bottle went missing.
0:37 Uh, then, Love it talks to Tommy Styer,
0:39 one of the leading Democrats in the California governor's race,
0:41 about his vision for running the state.
0:43 Also, before we start, if you're a friend of the pod subscriber,
0:46 which if you aren't, you should be,
0:48 uh, you can buy tickets for this year's Crooked Con starting Tuesday,
0:52 May 12th, special pre-sale just for subscribers.
0:56 But if you're not a subscriber because you hate
0:58 pro-democracy independent media and love listening to podcast ads,
1:02 then you can buy Crooked Con tickets a week later on May 19th.
1:06 So, get that extra weekend because they're going to go fast.
1:10 Uh either way, it's going to be a big fun party right after the midterms,
1:13 November 5th through 7th in Washington DC.
1:16 So go to uh crookedcon.com for more details,
1:19 including how to become a friend of the pod subscriber.
1:22 I'll give you the detail right now.
1:23 crooked.com/friend.
1:26 Here's the thing.
1:26 We're going to be together and we're going to be drinking.
1:29 We're either going to be celebrating or drowning ourselves,
1:31 but we will be doing it together.
1:33 Yeah, you can still have a party if it's a you know, I mean, it's still a party.
1:38 I just happy party somewhere.
1:41 It's gonna be a drunk party.
1:43 There's karma out there and I don't want to anchor karma.
1:46 Okay.
1:46 All right.
1:46 Well, there you go.
1:48 Um Okay.
1:49 We are recording this on Thursday afternoon and as of right now uh the US
1:53 and Iran are still discussing a one-page
1:55 memo that would reopen the straight of Hormuz,
1:58 pause the war that's already supposed to be paused but really isn't
2:01 for another 30 days during which time the two countries would try to reach
2:04 a permanent deal where Iran gets billions of dollars in unfrozen assets if they
2:10 pinky promise not to build a nuclear weapon and commit to an inspection regime.
2:14 That sounds a lot like Obama's Iran deal that Donald Trump pulled out of.
2:19 Um the background music for these negotiations uh is Iranian boats firing on US
2:24 Navy ships in the US carrying out new strikes on an Iranian oil port.
2:28 Uh it's it's unclear.
2:29 It's a little fog of war going on, but as we're recording,
2:32 there's sort of explosions everywhere.
2:33 There's reports of explosions in Tyran as well.
2:35 So, who the knows what's going on?
2:37 Um, Trump officials say this doesn't count as restarting the war,
2:42 but they also might restart the war,
2:44 just like they also might restart Project Freedom,
2:47 which was Trump's half-ass plan to guide traffic through the straight,
2:51 which was cancelled earlier in the week after an incredible one-day run.
2:56 Project Freedom, they not even a full day.
2:58 They didn't make it 24 hours.
2:59 I know.
2:59 I was being generous.
3:00 It's like banker's hours.
3:02 Meanwhile, uh the CIA reportedly believes that Iran
3:05 still has 70% of its ballistic missiles, 75% of its missile launchers,
3:12 and can withstand the US naval blockade
3:15 for quote at least 3 to four more months.
3:19 That is according to the Washington Post.
3:22 What do you think, Dan?
3:22 Is uh is Trump still holding all the cards?
3:25 It's hard to fathom a bigger cluster than this.
3:30 Like it's just such a show.
3:32 It was such a bad idea.
3:33 Obviously, it's been so poorly executed since then.
3:36 It's so chaotic that at the same time that I was
3:40 reading the New York Times story today on the one-page memo.
3:45 And everyone's very specific that it's one page.
3:47 14 points on one page.
3:48 I guess small.
3:49 We don't even we don't we don't even know margins.
3:51 You got to put the margins over like a you got a 0.5 margin.
3:54 Maybe you got a point.
3:55 What's the font size?
3:55 Are we 14?
3:56 Yeah.
3:56 We don't know.
3:57 Got to be.
3:57 If we're fitting 14 points on a one pager, it's a lot.
3:59 I mean, but what are those 14 points?
4:01 So, it's one page.
4:02 I'm reading that.
4:02 I get a news alert on my phone
4:05 that the United States has struck Iranian oil ports.
4:10 Like, what is happening?
4:12 And then we're firing missiles back and forth.
4:13 They they've attacked US ships apparently.
4:15 We think at this point the American
4:17 ships had to retreat because they were damaged.
4:19 We think at this point, but do not worry.
4:22 the peace negotiations are still headed down the path and and are
4:27 and they're still circling around this onepage memo and a ceasefire could
4:31 begin any minute or or I guess a peace deal could begin
4:34 any minute which is what they've been saying for a month now.
4:37 So uh just as a thought exercise I'm going to be generous again here.
4:40 Um, let's imagine that the negotiations,
4:45 sort of the the latest round of firing and attacks that that that dies down,
4:50 negotiations resume, they get a deal, and then 30 days from now,
4:55 they reach a more permanent deal,
4:56 and it's the best deal possible for the United States,
4:59 which is the Obama deal, which is basically approximation of the Obama deal.
5:03 Yeah.
5:03 What that would do is basically um you'd ship out all the uranium,
5:09 the enriched uranium from Iran.
5:11 Um some reports said possibly to the United States.
5:15 Um so you'd ship out all the uranium.
5:17 Now they didn't have any uranium um when Donald
5:20 Trump came into office because of the Iran nuclear deal,
5:22 but they did produce a lot more enriched uranium.
5:24 They did enrich a lot more uranium uh in the years between
5:27 Trump pulling out of the Iran deal and Trump deciding to attack them.
5:30 But anyway, so you get rid of all the uranium and then you
5:34 uh you you have new limits on uranium enrichment and and the nuclear
5:39 program and you know some of the hawks might argue like maybe they're
5:42 a little more stringent but the same same kind of inspections regime maybe like
5:46 a little bit more enhanced but again it is the whole the whole
5:50 deal is we're going to inspect it there's going to be spot inspections
5:54 the UN can go in there any time so we're going to keep
5:56 an eye on them which again that was the Obama deal um And in exchange,
6:00 we're going to unfreeze billions and billions of dollars of assets.
6:03 Again, that was the Obama deal.
6:05 And so that is the that is the best best best case scenario.
6:10 In that scenario, what was what did it cost us?
6:15 Well, it cost us uh 14 American lives,
6:19 uh hundreds of uh now thousands of lives in Iran, in Lebanon, across the Gulf.
6:27 Um it cost us uh god knows how much money both in at least $25 billion.
6:33 I was going to say both in the direct money we spent on the war
6:36 and um the harm to the global economy
6:38 and to the US economy in higher energy prices.
6:42 Um it also we also spent like we're talking about um Iran
6:46 having 70% of its ballistic missiles 74 75% of its missile launchers.
6:50 Um what kind of weapons do we have?
6:52 How how much how many weapons how many missiles do we launch now?
6:56 um over this war for absolutely nothing.
6:59 Um our global standing in the world, our allies trust in us.
7:03 Um I don't know.
7:04 I could go on and on and on, but it doesn't seem like it
7:07 doesn't seem like we would have gotten
7:08 much from this best best best case scenario.
7:13 And even under your best best case scenario,
7:16 which was very generous of you and your generosity
7:18 is appreciated at the highest levels of the White House,
7:20 I'm sure the likelihood that the Iranian people
7:25 rise up against the regime for a more pro-American
7:30 democratic version of Iran is much less likely
7:33 than it was before this because I don't know,
7:35 we started blowing up their country and bombing girls schools.
7:38 So that seems unlikely.
7:40 And let's say we let's say we did we did kill an 86 year old
7:43 and and a bunch of his top goons.
7:46 So that world I feel safer already, right?
7:49 Because clear because clearly um that has decapitated the regime
7:52 and they haven't been able to do anything since then.
7:54 Oh.
7:55 Oh wait.
7:56 Yes.
7:56 [laughter] Yes.
7:56 And then but even before we get
7:58 to your um future approximation of the Obama Iran deal,
8:03 let's just say we agree on the 14 points.
8:06 We get that done and the straight opens.
8:08 Even if you open the straight today,
8:10 the United States government estimates it'll take
8:12 six months to clear it of mines,
8:16 the impact on oil prices around the world and gas prices in the United
8:21 States will rem will remain for 6 months to a year at least.
8:25 The economic damage will not be undone.
8:27 The tail effect of all of this on food prices because of fertilizer
8:31 on the supply chain will continue for a long period of time.
8:35 And so this is not like you solve this problem because
8:38 Trump is trying to solve this problem because the midterms are coming.
8:42 The political problems that come from the damage
8:44 to the economy are not going away anytime soon.
8:47 And for the American people who are struggling,
8:49 which is the more important issue here,
8:50 relief is not coming when the 14.1page memo is agreed to.
8:55 Yeah.
8:55 And then what do you think is going to happen
8:56 when uh if the memo is agreed to and Trump announces
9:00 that he should get the peace prize again and everything
9:02 and then gas prices continue to drift up from now until November?
9:06 You think people are going to be you think that people are upset now?
9:08 Just wait till October rolls around and the war has been
9:11 in the rearview mirror for a couple months and people are like,
9:13 "What the Why am I still paying $5 gas, $4 gas?" Speaking of which,
9:19 oil futures have been on a real ride uh
9:21 thanks to all the dueling scoops and siren emojis.
9:24 Uh but gas prices um which are a little more stable.
9:29 We're at a nationwide average of $4.55 a gallon.
9:32 Uh 10 cents higher than Monday.
9:35 And the Trump White House is of course working overtime
9:38 to make sure people know and understand that they feel their pain.
9:43 Let's listen.
9:44 Uh
9:44 credit card spending is through the roof.
9:46 They're spending more on gasoline,
9:47 but they're spending more on everything else, too.
9:50 We want to encourage all Americans to take a road trip.
9:52 whether you're going to go 2 hours or 2 days.
9:54 I thought oil prices would go to $200, $250, it's at $100 now.
9:59 But even if it went to 200, uh, it would have been worth it.
10:03 I understand.
10:04 Just an incredible showing from all three of those gentlemen.
10:06 But I do have to say, Kevin, [laughter] Kevin Hasset, like, yeah, no, it's true.
10:12 People are maxing out their credit cards because of high gas prices,
10:15 but in fairness, everything else is expensive, too.
10:18 is like, do you think it's possible
10:19 that Kevin Hasset is secretly working for the Democrats?
10:22 Do we have a plant in there?
10:24 We would never hire someone that stupid.
10:27 Is this what Ken Martin has been spending all the money on?
10:29 [laughter] I think it is more likely that uh I
10:35 guess there's two options when it comes to Hasset.
10:36 One is he's the dumbest economist alive and the other
10:40 one is is that earlier this year he placed
10:42 a massive bet on Khi on Democrats taking the house
10:46 because he's doing everything possible like he is just after another just
10:51 he just wants to be in as many campaign maybe he
10:54 has a maybe he has a bet with his how many
10:56 Democratic campaign ads can he be in because he every time
10:58 he goes on TV he's trying to be in another one
11:00 maybe it's like a bet with Scott Bessant because
11:02 every time Besson opens his mouth it's almost as bad.
11:04 I think Besson's in the lead right now, but
11:07 Besson gives like Kevin Hassie gives off
11:10 doofus vibes while Besson gives off the vibes
11:13 of someone who would use his private equity
11:16 fund to buy your house and evict you.
11:18 Yeah.
11:18 Yeah.
11:19 Besson gives off the vibe of someone who's like never gone to a grocery
11:21 store or gone to a gas station and filled up his own tank of gas.
11:25 I mean, which is a terrible thing to say about a soybean farmer,
11:28 but [laughter] there is a there is a bigger issue here,
11:32 I think, beyond just the incompetence of these individual spokespeople is
11:36 they are like this is the trap Trump has set for himself,
11:41 which is they you cannot admit that things are bad because to admit things are
11:45 bad is to admit that Trump failed
11:46 and you can never admit that Trump is fallible.
11:48 And so, since you can't admit things are bad,
11:50 you can't lay out your plan to make them better.
11:53 So instead, you just have to walk around every single day and stick your thumb
11:57 in the eye of every swing voter
11:58 and seem just radically out of touch with reality.
12:02 It's just like this is why the affordability to all
12:05 of that was doomed to fail because they are
12:07 incapable of offering a message because they're incapable of acknowledging
12:11 the reality that American people feel every single day.
12:14 I would say that's all true,
12:15 but they are doing an extra special good job
12:17 of uh of poking the American people in the eye
12:20 on this because like you think about the Biden
12:22 administration and we criticize them at the time
12:25 when they would go around being like uh
12:28 oh people say they're hurting but like uh you're
12:30 looking at gas prices in an expensive neighborhood
12:33 and actually look at listen to the inflation rating.
12:35 It's actually good.
12:36 And all of their comments,
12:37 while they weren't really effective at um making people
12:40 believe something different than their eyes were were telling them,
12:44 um they were at least geared towards trying
12:47 to tell people that things were getting better.
12:50 And [laughter] that is being I have to be that's being overly generous.
12:54 I know I'm I'm again I'm feeling very generous.
12:56 Yeah.
12:56 What is going on with you today?
12:58 But again, like I can't imagine if like Ron Clay or I can't even
13:03 remember who the econ like Jared Bernstein
13:05 were out there being like, "Yes, it's true.
13:07 It's true.
13:07 People are spending a lot of money and maxing out their credit cards on gas,
13:11 but also everything's expensive." [laughter] Yeah.
13:13 I mean, like in fairness to like
13:15 the individual spokespeople would would do a better
13:18 job than Biden himself who would be
13:19 like the lowest unemployment rate in history.
13:23 Yeah.
13:23 They did have that thing where they were like,
13:25 "Everyone's turkeys are 5 cents cheaper this Thanksgiving.
13:28 We're [laughter] things are getting better." It's just you look everyone,
13:34 if you're ever in the White House, if you ever run a Democratic campaign,
13:37 you ever get to the White House and the economy's a little rocky.
13:40 Don't do that.
13:40 Just don't do that.
13:42 If people are upset, people are going to be upset.
13:44 Just tell them you're going to fight harder.
13:45 That's it.
13:46 That's all you got to do.
13:47 Uh, still not going to help you necessarily,
13:49 but it's not going to make it worse.
13:50 This is making it worse.
13:51 Stop digging.
13:52 Stop digging.
13:53 Exactly.
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16:35 So, as this is happening, um,
16:37 the two men most likely to be the Republican nominee
16:39 in 2028 were out there trying to explain the war, everything else.
16:44 JD Vance was in Iowa on Tuesday,
16:45 ostensibly stumping for a vulnerable Republican House member,
16:48 but probably testing the waters for 28 to see
16:51 if there is anyone out there who likes him.
16:53 Uh, let's listen.
16:54 What is uh this what is uh Zach?
16:59 You're gonna have to help me out with her name here.
17:01 I lost my page here.
17:04 Okay.
17:04 All right.
17:06 Okay, there we go.
17:07 Sarah Tone Garrett.
17:08 There he is.
17:09 I I'm I'm on the wrong page here.
17:11 Crushed it, sir.
17:12 Crushed it.
17:13 Yes.
17:13 Doing great.
17:14 Shane [clears throat] Goldmarker from the New York Times was at the event
17:17 and he noted in his story that a bunch of people volunteered to him.
17:21 Um that they actually really like Rubio uh and not just Vance,
17:25 sometimes over Vance,
17:26 which is something that um our friend Sarah Longwell
17:28 has been noting in her focus groups as well.
17:31 Um, Rubio uh happened to be taking over the White House
17:34 daily briefing uh the very same day Vance was in Iowa.
17:37 I know um you and Love it talked a bit
17:39 about this on podsave America only friends uh on how do you access that John?
17:43 What is that?
17:44 Tell me about it.
17:44 Well uh it says right here you
17:45 can subscribe at cricut.com/friend if you haven't already.
17:48 It's an extra special bi-weekly episode of Podsave America.
17:52 So if you love Pods America, subscribe.
17:55 Rotating cast of characters.
17:56 it was you and Love it this week and uh I know you guys
17:58 talked about this but we're going to talk about it again um particularly because
18:02 with different takes different takes well there's one answer from Rubio
18:06 you guys didn't talk about that has
18:07 gone viral um from that press conference and it's a it was a response
18:12 to you know a kind of question that we all know and love
18:15 of the um what gives you hope
18:17 variety [laughter] here's here's what Marco Rubio said
18:22 I mean my hope for America is what it's always been I think it's the hope I hope
18:25 we all share We wanted to continue to be
18:27 the place where anyone from anywhere can achieve anything.
18:30 Where you're not limited by the circumstances of your birth,
18:32 by the color of your skin, by your ethnicity,
18:34 but frankly, it's a place where you are
18:36 able to overcome challenges and achieve your full potential.
18:39 I think we have a lot to learn and be proud of in our history.
18:42 It is one of perpetual and continuous improvement
18:44 where each generation has done its part to bring
18:46 us closer to fulfilling the vision that the founders
18:48 of this country had upon its founding.
18:50 Not limited by the circumstances of your birth.
18:52 Unless you were born to someone who is not a citizen of the United States,
18:56 in which case my administration is currently trying to make sure that what it
19:01 says in the Constitution that you're guaranteed to be a citizen is no more.
19:06 Other than that, other than that tiny exception,
19:08 yes, as far as your dreams can take you.
19:10 Um, so that went viral.
19:14 All the MAGA folks are loving it.
19:15 Uh, Rubio's official Twitter account released
19:18 essentially a campaign video of that answer
19:20 with a with a Superman type theme song playing in the background.
19:24 Um, what do you think of the Rubio boomlet, Dan?
19:27 What's uh what is what is the path from from here to Marco
19:32 Rubio accepting the Republican nomination in 2028
19:35 while JD Vance is just sad somewhere?
19:38 Let me I would like to see JD Vance sad somewhere,
19:41 but I don't want to see Marco Rubio happy.
19:43 So, I'm not really sure how this plays out.
19:45 Um, I think the Rubio boomlet, as you have deemed it, uh,
19:50 has more to do with JD Vance sucking than Marco Rubio shining.
19:55 Like Rubio does benefit from comparison.
19:59 He's in a cabinet.
20:00 In the land in the land of the blind, oneeyed man is king.
20:03 Yes, I'm sure.
20:04 I'm sure you're not supposed to say that for a whole bunch of reasons anymore,
20:06 but anyway, that's an old saying.
20:08 [laughter] Well, I wonder who you're doing this podcast with next week.
20:13 [laughter] Anyh [snorts and gasps] who, um,
20:18 don't ask if we're leaving it to everyone.
20:20 We're leaving it.
20:20 [laughter] Um, he's in a cabinet.
20:25 Let me try to do this in a way.
20:26 Uh, he's in a cabinet with Pete Hexath, RFK Jr., Linda McMahon, Shawn Duffy.
20:32 He looks serious compared to those unserious
20:35 people in the land of the unserious.
20:37 The serious man is king.
20:38 The mildly serious man is king.
20:40 That sucks.
20:40 That sucks.
20:41 Well, you know what?
20:42 We got to make we got to make adjustments, Sean.
20:44 Um, and so like I think uh like he looks he looks more serious
20:49 than these people and love and I talked about his performance at the briefing.
20:52 Compared to Pete Hexf, he looks like a real person.
20:56 I think there is one giant problem for Marco Rubio.
21:02 Marco Rubio's greatest legislative accomplishment,
21:05 perhaps his only legislative accomplishment,
21:08 was to work handinhand with Barack Obama and Harry Reid to pass a bill
21:13 to provide a path to citizenship
21:16 for millions upon millions of undocumented immigrants.
21:22 You mean you mean uh you mean Marco Rubio, also fluent in Spanish,
21:26 who uh who spoke in Spanish at that briefing, which to me was quite impressive.
21:32 But let's check in with the 40% of Republican voters,
21:35 50% of Republican voters who still absolutely love Donald Trump
21:38 and want him to be more restrictionist on immigration and more xenophobic.
21:45 I worked in the White House when Marco Rubio helped
21:47 Barack Obama pass that very important bill to give a path
21:50 this amnesty bill as some called it at the time
21:53 when he helped with our with the Obama amnesty bill.
21:55 I was there every single day in the office.
21:58 I was appreciative of Marco Rubio's help
22:01 today.
22:01 To this day, I still I want to I just
22:03 sent him a thank you card again the other day.
22:05 I am available for speaking to I will talk
22:09 to anyone about the very important role he played.
22:11 I am available if you need me in Iowa or New Hampshire
22:13 in the coming years to come speak with and share the gratitude I have
22:17 with Marco Rubio for the work he did his sincere beliefs his the hard
22:21 work the way in which he really was Barack Obama's whisperer on the hill.
22:26 Yeah,
22:26 I can I'm happy to tell those stories.
22:27 This is a man who believes that borders are just lines
22:31 on a map and that they don't re they don't really
22:34 capture um like what it is to be an American which
22:37 is as he said there it's a place where or anyone
22:39 can come and become anything which is that you know Marco
22:43 Rubio believes that that speech could have been given by Barack
22:46 Obama right there and I think I think the reason is
22:49 because they are when you get down to it kindred spirits
22:52 like what Rubio used to say I'm told I wasn't there was
22:55 we're not Republicans we're not Democrats were all members of the uni party.
22:59 So, [laughter] you know,
23:01 it is like I think that all of these and and I have heard this now.
23:05 I know that Sarah has heard this in her focus groups.
23:06 I've heard this from like people I know, people I've encountered,
23:10 but they are all the same people who are like, you know,
23:14 maybe Spencer Pratt should be mayor of Los Angeles or people who were like,
23:18 uh, let me see, they're either they've got finance careers,
23:21 they've got tech careers, they they liked Elon Musk for a while,
23:25 they thought that was interesting,
23:26 they were kind of looking at Ron DeSantis in the last primary
23:29 and thought maybe he had a had a really good chance way too late.
23:33 Um, and that group of people is uh influential
23:37 in terms of of their megaphone and their money,
23:40 but they are not the MAGA base.
23:42 They are not the MAGA base.
23:44 And I think that right now I I agree with you
23:46 that it is more about JD Vance's weakness than Marco
23:48 Rubio's strength because right now I think Marco Rubio is
23:51 a bit of a a blank blank slate for people and they
23:55 Well, not when I'm done with them.
23:57 [laughter] But they are they are I mean and we
23:59 do this we've done this with Democratic candidates all
24:01 the time but you sort of project all your hopes
24:03 and dreams of what you want in a candidate on Marco
24:06 Rubio because right now when you see Marco Rubio he's
24:09 not tripping and falling on his face every 5 seconds
24:12 like the rest of the doofuses in the administration you
24:14 know and he does he does seem like a serious person.
24:17 He ran a absolutely miserable 2016 campaign.
24:21 Oh my god.
24:22 Remember the voters met him Chris Christie like murdered him on stage.
24:26 Yes.
24:26 Yes.
24:26 And as I point out to love the other day,
24:28 he ended his campaign uh losing a dick joke war with Donald Trump and then cried
24:36 because he was so upset that Donald Trump
24:37 would have access to the world's most dangerous weapons.
24:40 Also, do you like how does I mean I could I
24:43 could very easily see a scenario where it ends up Vance Rubio.
24:46 In fact, I think that could be one of the likelier scenarios.
24:49 Like I don't do Can you see a scenario where Rubio is like uh you know what
24:54 I said I wasn't gonna run against JD Vance but change my mind I'm gonna do it.
24:58 Um I find that hard to believe.
25:00 Maybe there's a scenario where JD Vance is so thoroughly embarrassed that he
25:05 just sort of slinks away and decides not to run at all.
25:08 Although that seems that seems impossible to imagine
25:11 unless Trump tells him unless Trump tells him you're not it.
25:14 Yeah.
25:14 I mean if Trump put his thumb on the scale
25:15 and was like I want Rubio to be privately you know.
25:18 Yes.
25:19 And I can see that happening.
25:20 Um, yeah, it's uh it'll be interesting.
25:23 But I think if you're Rubio, you're like,
25:25 I'm just going to go along and and and take
25:28 the agilation from the from the people who think that I would
25:31 be better than the current situation we're in, and maybe he
25:33 runs with JD Vance and then thinks if JD Vance loses,
25:37 then Rubio is instantly the front runner for uh what is it, 2032.
25:42 Yeah, I think he he could consolidate
25:44 every single one of the Nikki Haley voters, and I think it'd be great for him.
25:47 I mean, Rubio's natural Rubio's natural energy is cuck
25:53 like I just it just he's like he is Yeah.
25:56 That little sitting in that big cuck chair.
25:59 Yeah.
25:59 Yeah.
25:59 I mean, also that's You know what?
26:02 When I go to Iowa to tell these stories, I'm going to bring that chair with me.
26:04 I'm going to sit in that chair to tell the stories of Marco Rubio's
26:07 and read the immigration bill that he authored.
26:10 Yes.
26:10 Yes.
26:11 Just read it out loud.
26:12 You know, the Obama library is opening this month.
26:14 I wonder if there's an annotated copy in there with all
26:16 I hope there's an exhibit.
26:17 I hope Marco Rubio features prominently in the library.
26:23 This was fun.
26:24 Um, all right.
26:25 Trump, meanwhile, seems like he's trying to make
26:27 it as difficult as possible for either
26:28 Vance or Rubio uh to win a presidential
26:31 election thanks to their association with him.
26:33 Um, here he is discussing his plans to change
26:36 the color of the reflecting pool on the National Mall,
26:39 stage a UFC fight at the White House for his birthday,
26:42 and of course, build his ballroom.
26:45 I said, you know, I built all these swimming pools, and they're phenomenal.
26:48 So, I have uh some very good contractors.
26:51 I think that uh I'd like to recommend a color.
26:54 It's called American flag blue.
26:56 I said, that's the color I want.
26:58 As you know, in June 14th, we're having a big fight.
27:02 A lot of people haven't seen this yet.
27:06 This will be the greatest show on earth is at night.
27:09 That's all lighting and cover.
27:11 I was in a position being a builder
27:14 and having built many ballrooms and many other things.
27:16 I'm I'm good at ballrooms.
27:18 That's the entrance to the new ballroom that's being built,
27:21 which [cheering] [applause] which everybody which everybody likes,
27:26 especially since last Saturday evening.
27:28 they like it even more cuz it'll have a thing called security.
27:33 That was those were all just this week.
27:35 Just this week as the as the war has erupted again and they're
27:39 trying to get a ceasefire and gas is going through the roof.
27:42 That was all this week in his remarks.
27:43 Um and good news Reuters just reported
27:46 that the White House is expecting to get the $400
27:50 million jumbo jet the Qatari royal family personally gifted
27:54 to Donald Trump just in time for America's birthday.
27:58 Happy fourth.
27:58 Here's a $400 million Qatari jumbo jet from the
28:03 jet was free.
28:04 The $400 million you paid for you,
28:06 the taxpayer to upgrade the security on the jet, i.e.
28:10 remove all the listening devices the guitar put in it.
28:13 [laughter] So, so far Trump's uh whole versail on the PTOAC
28:19 vibe has been um yet another weight on his approval rating.
28:24 But uh now he's tossing the anchor at Republicans in Congress
28:27 who are stunningly about to vote on whether to spend $1 billion,
28:35 our dollars, taxpayer dollars, on Donald Trump's ballroom,
28:39 which they are claiming is necessary for security reasons.
28:43 Um do you think Republicans running in uh competitive
28:47 races are excited about signing their own political death warrants?
28:52 This is the most insane thing I have ever seen a party do in election year.
28:58 They don't have to do this.
28:59 Like, they chose to do this.
29:00 They volunteered to do it.
29:03 And at a time in which they've already voted to close rural hospitals.
29:07 They've already voted to kick people off their healthare.
29:10 They've voted to kick people off their food assistance.
29:13 They've said we don't have money for education or childare or anything else,
29:17 but we have a billion dollars for a fancy ballroom
29:23 where Trump can whine and die in the Epstein class.
29:27 It's like this is like a stimulus program for political admakers.
29:30 Like it is insane.
29:31 I hope they vote today.
29:33 I was just thinking about that like in this I wonder what you
29:37 think about this in in this like media information environment like it is right.
29:41 It is like a a buffet for ad makers,
29:44 for democratic ad makers that they've like never seen before.
29:47 And I think in an environment like that, like you
29:49 want to go with like one ad over and over again.
29:52 And like all you need, like I really think,
29:55 and someone can go test this, but like all you need is an ad
29:59 that just has like image of him talking
30:01 about the ballroom and then rural hospital closing.
30:05 image about him talking about the arch that he's building
30:09 and uh people talking about high gas prices, people at the pump.
30:12 Image of him talking about the reflecting pool
30:15 and then uh people like you know and then war and and like you know flag drape c
30:20 like there's just this is this is so simple.
30:23 There is nothing else that people need to do but just like one 60-cond
30:27 ad that like shows the corruption uh
30:30 embodied in Donald Trump talking about and Republicans
30:33 with him talking about all of these you know the the arch the whole
30:38 thing and then and then all the struggles
30:40 people are going through and that's it.
30:41 That's the only thing you need.
30:43 You need the vote.
30:44 You need like if they actually vote the vote.
30:47 Yeah.
30:47 The use it is.
30:48 It has to be there is money for all these things
30:51 that don't help you and there's no money for you.
30:55 And worse than that, they're going to take your money and they're
30:58 going to spend it on this dumb fancy for rich people.
31:00 Like it is an absolute gift.
31:04 And I think the ball like there's so many things, right?
31:06 And you're right, like in this media environment, like how do you keep track?
31:09 The ballroom has the ability to be the equivalent
31:14 of the the whatever was the $600 hammer,
31:16 the toilet seat, all the things in the Reagan era because one, it's so absurd.
31:21 It's so ridiculous and it has the advantage of the fact
31:24 that every time Trump opens his mouth to breathe, he talks about the ballroom.
31:29 So like it's like the one like it's
31:32 we always talk about how Democrats don't have
31:33 the media firepower to make something that is bad
31:35 for Trump news all of all on our own.
31:39 Here's the thing where Trump is doing it every single
31:41 day and so he himself is raising awareness of the ballroom.
31:44 So it is like we are pushing on an open door here.
31:46 But also all of these Republicans running are uh in in competitive
31:51 races are inevitably going to end up in a debate.
31:54 And I think like every sing if you are a Democratic candidate and you do
31:58 not make that Republican that you're running
32:01 against in a debate like own the ballroom,
32:03 talk about the ballroom, talk about all of the corruption,
32:06 then like what are you doing, you know?
32:08 I mean, I just think that is the easiest easiest layup.
32:11 I don't care if the question is about some local issue.
32:15 Bring it back to the ballroom and Donald Trump.
32:17 Just do it.
32:18 It's it's wild.
32:18 We went from a $200 million corporatefunded ballroom, which was corruption,
32:24 but at least we weren't paying for it,
32:25 to a $1 billion ballroom that we're all paying for.
32:28 Well, it's funny because it's it's literally the worst of both worlds
32:31 for them because half the ballroom is being funded by corporate donors
32:36 that now get special access to the White House and special meetings
32:39 with Donald Trump and then the other half is paid for by us.
32:42 It's just like Yes, it is.
32:44 I I've never I've never seen it's like it is like they want to lose.
32:49 It's like Mike Johnson hates his job so much he has
32:51 to get he wants to unburden himself with the responsibility of the speakerhip.
32:54 It's [snorts] a wild experiment.
32:55 It's a wild experiment.
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35:46 So, one reason Republicans may not defy Trump's insanely unpopular demands.
35:51 Uh, his primary threats still work.
35:53 As we found out Tuesday in Indiana, for people who don't remember,
35:55 last year Trump vowed to punish Indiana
35:57 legislators who voted against gerrymandering the state's maps.
36:00 It turns out he did.
36:02 Trump's primary challengers ousted at least five
36:04 of the seven state senators he targeted who were helped
36:07 by photos posing with Trump in the oval and about
36:11 8 to10 million dollars of ads against their opponents.
36:14 Uh Tennessee Republicans saw this and decided
36:16 they would not be Trump's next victims.
36:18 Uh on Thursday, the governor there signed into law new maps
36:21 that would chop up the lone congressional Democrats Memphis area district.
36:25 Republicans in South Carolina, Alabama,
36:28 Louisiana are also contemplating new maps before the midterms,
36:31 although it's less clear if these states will succeed.
36:35 Um, former playbook author uh and journalist Rachel
36:38 Bade called Trump's victory in the Indiana primaries
36:40 a quote major flex and said that it showed quote that if you mess with the bull,
36:45 you'll get the horns.
36:47 Agree or disagree?
36:49 I would take a cold shower if I was her.
36:52 Like, was this a win for Trump?
36:55 Yes.
36:56 Had these incumbent senators defeated the Trump back primary challengers,
37:01 would that have been a massive defeat
37:02 for Trump that probably would have led this show?
37:05 Absolutely.
37:06 [laughter] But we have to put this in perspective.
37:09 This is the incumbent president of the White
37:11 House with the full backing of his political
37:14 operation in the MAGA movement that spent
37:16 $9 million to defeat five state senators.
37:22 Also, like so Trump is above water in Indiana.
37:26 His approval is like he's like plus three in Indiana, which is
37:30 that's bad.
37:31 Well, I know it is bad, but like you still
37:34 Well, he's also probably plus 75 in a Republican primary in
37:37 That's what I was going to say.
37:37 So then you get to a Republican primary.
37:39 Then you get to a the turnout in a Republican primary,
37:42 which some of these state senators that won won with 7,000 votes, 8,000 votes.
37:49 That was about it.
37:51 So, we're [laughter] like,
37:52 talk about a low turnout Republican primary in Indiana.
37:55 I hope so.
37:56 I hope he could win that like that.
37:58 He spent like $10,000 a vote.
38:00 Like, exactly.
38:02 It's so crazy.
38:03 It's like I I I would have been shocked.
38:05 I would have been shocked if those senators held on.
38:09 I mean, the real test comes in two
38:12 weeks in the Kentucky primary with Tom Massie.
38:15 Oh, yeah.
38:15 That's a That's the one.
38:16 That's more of a test for sure.
38:17 They they we also have also in two weeks, I think,
38:21 uh the Louisiana primary, unless that's in the next couple weeks,
38:24 we have the Louisiana primary with Bill Cassidy,
38:26 who Trump is primary, but that is a three-way race.
38:28 Um and so the Trump's chosen candidate probably will make the runoff,
38:33 but probably won't break the So,
38:34 that one's hard to see, but Cassidy might be toast anyway.
38:36 But Trump still has sway in the Republican party.
38:39 Of course, he's the incumbent president.
38:41 He is just has less sway than he used to.
38:44 Also, you know what?
38:45 I'm happy for him to have all the sway he wants.
38:48 Well, not until you get to the next question, but
38:50 because he has a 35% approval rating.
38:52 And if a bunch of Republicans want to tie themselves to Donald
38:55 Trump and his approval rating as they head into the midterms, best of luck.
39:00 Yeah.
39:00 Except in one very notable exception, which we'll get to in one second.
39:04 You mean uh where redistricting is headed right now?
39:07 Yeah.
39:07 I mean this this the benefit for Trump here is a lot of these members do
39:13 not in the rep in the in the states
39:15 that have already voted filing deadlines are passed.
39:19 A lot of the state legislators would prefer to not take
39:24 these extraordinary steps to redraw the maps in the favor of Republicans.
39:28 Um, and if they had any hesitancy to do so,
39:31 the Indiana primary will send a message that they better do
39:34 it or they will suffer the consequences in their 2028 primaries.
39:37 Like that's the that is the we're more
39:40 likely to end with Republicans maximizing to the extent
39:44 they can the advantages given to them by the Supreme
39:47 Court decision after Indiana than we were before.
39:49 Now, is that going to add up to a ton of seats?
39:51 That's an open question.
39:52 But like if you if you did not want to do this and South
39:55 Carolina was one place where they did not want to do it,
39:57 they may end up doing it now because of this.
39:59 Yeah.
40:00 And really you're talking about South Carolina and Alabama
40:05 and and Tennessee, which we just talked about.
40:08 Tennessee was always Louisiana was always
40:10 going to go whether whatever whatever they
40:12 thought about Trump because that's that was the state involved in the case.
40:16 Um and uh Alabama still needs a court to lift an injunction.
40:21 So, they're waiting on that.
40:23 South Carolina could go and then that's about it.
40:26 Like Mississippi is already thinking they're going to wait until 2028.
40:29 Um Georgia already said no.
40:31 So, you know, you're you're right,
40:33 but it's not like I I would I'm
40:36 personally more nervous waiting for the um Virginia
40:39 State Supreme Court to rule on the referendum because that to me is a that's a
40:44 that's the four.
40:45 Yeah.
40:45 If we lose that four seat swing,
40:47 then Republicans will end up with a significant not insurmountable,
40:50 but a significant advantage in the in the midterms.
40:53 I still think even if we lost Virginia,
40:55 I still think Democrats would be favored to take the majority,
40:58 but the margin by which we would do so, I think,
41:00 would be much narrower, thus making it harder to hold in 2028.
41:04 So, obviously, we can see this and just, you know,
41:06 worry about what might happen, what might not happen.
41:09 Is there anything Democrats can do about all
41:10 of this in the uh in the short and medium term?
41:13 Yeah, I mean what we're watching right
41:14 now is incredibly infuriating to watch in Tennessee,
41:17 a state with a significant black population,
41:19 just carve up Memphis, one of the city, one of the blackest cities in America,
41:24 and ensure it has no Democratic representation.
41:26 That I mean, it's it's infuriating and it's deflating.
41:29 And that's ultimately the goal, right?
41:31 The people who do gerrymandering and voter suppression want you to to give up.
41:36 They want you to feel like your power is
41:37 being taken away so that you stop using your power.
41:39 Like that's that's the ultimate win here.
41:41 And so we obviously cannot let that happen.
41:43 And here are just like three things and none of these are satisfying.
41:46 Let me be specific.
41:47 None of them are satisfying.
41:48 But here are the things where we can focus our energy right now.
41:51 The first is we have to redouble our efforts
41:52 to take the House and hopefully the Senate in 2026.
41:56 The reason for that is we need that is the foundation
41:59 for the governing coalition that we will have in 2029 with the Democratic
42:03 president to actually pass things like a ban on partisan gerrymandering
42:06 to do real electoral reform to make our system more small D democratic.
42:11 The second thing, and this is critically important,
42:13 is we have to pour our time, our money,
42:16 our resources into state legislative races because there's going
42:21 to be efforts to redraw the maps in 2028,
42:26 in 2030, and most importantly in 2032 after the next census.
42:29 So, we have to have as much power as we possibly can to draw the maps
42:33 in as many places in as many even in states where we can't take the majority.
42:36 If we can get close to the majority,
42:38 we can have an in potentially an influence on how those maps are drawn.
42:41 This is absolutely important.
42:42 This is where the future of American democracy is
42:45 going to be absent some sort of ban on partisan
42:48 jerrymandering is going to be decided in state legislative races
42:51 and in governor's mansions for the for the map redraws.
42:54 And we're going to live in a a cycle of perpetual map redraws.
42:58 The last thing here is we have to put pressure on the blue
43:02 states where we have the ability to fight fire with fire.
43:07 Illinois, Maryland, New York.
43:10 In states where we have control, but that where we have put in place because we
43:14 like good government bans on on gerrymandering like in Michigan,
43:18 we have to put pressure on our politicians
43:20 to look for ways like they did in California,
43:22 like they did in Virginia to undo those bans
43:25 to be able to compete here because we can't
43:27 live in a world of unilateral disarmament and we
43:29 cannot accept any de any democratic politician that does.
43:32 It's a good list.
43:34 I like that.
43:35 Uh, I do I and I do think that um
43:37 the good news is some of these Democratic governors have signaled
43:41 I know that Kathy Hokll has in in New York
43:44 that as we look to 2028 they're going to redraw the map.
43:47 They just couldn't do it in time for 26.
43:49 Um, all right.
43:50 Last thing we have to talk about before
43:51 you hear Love it's conversation with Tommy Styer.
43:53 As you know, FBI director Cash Patel has been
43:56 in hot water since a story in the Atlantic
44:00 in midappril sourced to more than two dozen
44:02 people about Patel's quote conspicuous inebriation and unexplained absences.
44:07 Uh f Patel filed a defamation lawsuit against the magazine
44:12 and the writer Sarah Fitzpatrick seeking $250 million in damages.
44:16 MS Now reports that Patel is also having the FBI
44:19 investigate Fitzpatrick as part of an effort to uncover the leakers.
44:23 Uh which is unprecedented when the information involved isn't classified.
44:27 Um though the FBI flatly denies this is happening.
44:30 The Atlantic also doesn't seem to know
44:32 this is going on according to their statement, but that is the reporting.
44:35 Fitzpatrick and the Atlantic responded by publishing another banger.
44:39 Uh, apparently Cash has been uh apparently Cash
44:42 has been gifting people customized bottles of Woodford
44:45 Reserve engraved with the FBI shield and Cash's
44:49 name spelled with the dollar sign for the S,
44:53 which is the part that triggers me the most.
44:55 It's perfect.
44:56 It's just perfect.
44:57 Um, a lot of the FBI insiders source
44:59 in the story said the bourbon freebies make them really uncomfortable.
45:02 Yeah, no Um, because they are
45:04 a clear violation of FBI regulations around alcohol.
45:07 Uh, a bureau spokesperson said that uh, cash reimbures the cost and that quote,
45:12 "The bottles in question are part of a tradition
45:13 in the FBI that started well over a decade ago." Though
45:16 they declined to elaborate on that tradition and Fitzpatrick writes
45:19 that when she ran that by a former FBI official,
45:22 quote, "He burst out laughing." [laughter]
45:26 [snorts] What do you think about this?
45:27 Also, uh, Ms.
45:29 Now, uh Carol Lenig and and Kendallian reported right before we started that um
45:33 that Cash is in full panic mode about his job and he has been ordering
45:39 uh polygraphs of more than two dozen
45:41 former and current members of his security detail
45:44 and other staff um over all these stories about him being uh Jay Edgar Boozer.
45:52 No one has ever tried and failed harder to be cool than Cash Patel.
46:00 [laughter] It's like he's every What about JD Vance?
46:03 He hasn't really tried that hard.
46:04 I guess
46:05 he No, he he has not He's barely He's barely tried at all.
46:08 I haven't even seen him once try to be cool.
46:10 [laughter] He tries Cashel is handing out like he Cash M Pat M Pat M Pat M Pat
46:15 M Pat M Pat M Pat M Pat M Pat M Patel's entire life is defined
46:16 by being stuffed in a locker once and he
46:19 is handing out bottles of bourbon to people
46:22 who think he's ridiculous and he put a dollar sign in his name like he's Kesha.
46:28 Like what are we doing?
46:30 Is that what it is?
46:32 I I don't know.
46:32 But it's like does he like he thinks that's cash get it?
46:35 Cash.
46:36 He thinks it's cool.
46:37 He think No, I get it.
46:38 I I get it.
46:39 He think he like he thinks that makes it cooler.
46:42 Can you imagine if that jack off like gave you a bottle
46:47 of [laughter] bourbon with his and some of them are signed, too.
46:50 So, they're engraved with his name, but if you're lucky,
46:53 you get an actual signed version of it,
46:55 which The Atlantic Reporter was able to buy online.
46:58 I think I think she got it on eBay.
47:00 Um, and it was um it was sold by someone who got it
47:04 at an event in Las Vegas where he spends uh much of his time.
47:09 Um, in the poodle room at the top of the fountain blue [laughter] [snorts]
47:15 the poodle room is such a funny term.
47:16 Such a um Yeah.
47:18 [sighs] What do you do?
47:20 We know what kind of bourbon's in there?
47:21 It's Woodford Reserve.
47:22 So, it's just, you know, it is it's Woodford.
47:24 It's Woodford.
47:25 Woodford.
47:25 And then they had to contact Woodford Reserve and they're like,
47:27 "Look, we don't we, you know,
47:29 the a lot of people engrave our stuff and it happens
47:31 after after we already sort of send the bottle out." [laughter]
47:36 That's great.
47:37 I I I think it was you and I when I talked about like I
47:41 I still place a bet on that he's out by the end of the year.
47:45 Was it me and you?
47:46 Yeah.
47:46 Yeah, I think that's right.
47:48 Yeah.
47:48 Yeah.
47:48 I think we I still think that's You said after the midterms.
47:51 You can't be running around handing out bottles of bourbon, uh,
47:55 being so drunk allegedly that your security detail,
47:59 who you're now polygraphing, um, had to like send in a SWAT team to get you
48:05 up in the morning cuz you wouldn't wake up and then
48:07 just just panic that you can't get into your email thinking
48:10 it means you're fired and now now you're giving everyone polygraph tests.
48:13 I mean, that is that is wild.
48:16 Yeah.
48:17 I mean, we put a mid-level congressional staffer whose
48:23 main job as podcaster in charge of the FBI.
48:26 The FBI and it's like I think people because you see like
48:30 you know Pam Bondi getting fired
48:31 at DOJ obviously justice department very important.
48:35 You see you you see like Christy Gnome at DHS you see Pete Hegathth at DoD.
48:40 But it's like when you're the head of the FBI,
48:43 like these are these are like the top
48:46 federal law enforcement officials in the country,
48:50 in the world really.
48:52 And you it's kind of a hands-on job.
48:54 It's not like you're the secretary and you got
48:57 a bunch of people underneath and your job is to go be on TV and do the TV
49:00 thing and then like the whole place is running itself.
49:02 Like you're the FBI director, man.
49:04 This is a it's the worst place to put in someone
49:07 this unbelievably unqualified and and seemingly has plenty of plenty of issues.
49:16 Uh like truly mind-blowingly was confirmed by the Senate.
49:19 This was not just someone that Trump picked and installed in there.
49:22 The United States Senate had hearings with him.
49:26 Tom Tillis introduced it by the way at the at his hearing.
49:29 He's selling he's selling merch.
49:30 He's still selling cash merch on his website.
49:34 I I wonder like how many units is he selling of cash merch every month?
49:39 Let's just let's just do the hypothetical here.
49:40 So, let's hypothetically say that you're Donald Trump and the people around him,
49:44 you're like, you know what?
49:45 I know it doesn't make a ton of sense, but I think Cash should be at the FBI.
49:49 It's been his dream.
49:51 He's always wanted to be cool.
49:52 This is his best chance.
49:54 I'm going to do this for him.
49:55 And the gratitude because Trump is a, you know,
49:56 a very generous person and he wants to help people.
49:59 So, he wants to do this.
50:00 So then the idea would be like, yeah,
50:01 we kind of know he's not fully qualified for this job,
50:04 so we're going to surround him with a strong number two.
50:07 And there's only one number, another podcast, another podcaster.
50:13 [laughter] It's like, what are we doing?
50:16 Anyway, I feel safe.
50:17 I feel safe.
50:18 I'm going to sleep well tonight.
50:19 Um, all right, Dan.
50:20 When we come back, you'll hear love
50:22 it conversation with California gubanatorial candidate Tommy Styer.
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53:06 Joining me now, he is currently running
53:07 for governor here in California to succeed, Gavin Newsome.
53:11 Welcome back to the pod, Tommy Styer.
53:13 John, it's nice to be back with you.
53:14 All right, let's start with this.
53:17 California is losing population to states like Texas.
53:21 What is your diagnosis as to why that's happening?
53:24 I think it's clear to be honest, John.
53:27 California is too expensive for Californians to live in anymore.
53:29 And and it starts with housing, but it certainly includes healthcare.
53:33 We pay twice as much for electricity
53:35 as the average in the United States of America.
53:37 And of course, gasoline prices are going, you know,
53:41 crazy all over the country, but including California.
53:44 And in addition, I think what we're seeing from the Middle East is
53:48 that we're going to have a big rise in food prices in the fall.
53:50 So, uh, let's talk about the gas tax here in California because I think
53:54 it gets at something that I feel is a bit missing from the debate.
53:57 I watched the debate last night.
53:59 Boy, rowdy.
54:00 Uh so California has one of, if not the highest gas tax in the country.
54:07 We spend more uh on roads than any other state.
54:12 We also have the worst roads in the country.
54:14 And I hear you talk a lot about the ways
54:17 in which you want to change the tax code and raise revenue,
54:20 but I'm curious how you view the role
54:22 of governor in getting costs like that under control.
54:25 Anytime you're running an organization, you have to demand accountability.
54:31 And if you're running an organization,
54:33 I think it's an old statement that if you can't measure it, you can't manage it.
54:38 So to a very large extent if we're going to if you're going
54:42 to be running the state of California
54:44 and demanding that the roads be maintained well.
54:47 So you're going to ma me measure maintenance how how are the roads and you're
54:51 going to measure how much it costs
54:52 to maintain them then that's something that people are
54:55 going to have to manage to and it's
54:57 a question of accountability and control and I
54:59 think it's quite clear in California in multiple
55:02 places that that's not a system that's existed.
55:06 It's not a system where people have been
55:08 able to do that and that's a management task.
55:11 You know this is the governor is an executive function and so
55:16 yeah you have an organization to run and you have an organization
55:19 like every other organization in terms of how you you know manage
55:24 that through the people and how you manage that through the numbers.
55:26 So can you talk a bit about your experience in management
55:31 because you started a hedge fund in in San Francisco in 1986.
55:36 You were an investor.
55:39 My understanding of what your role would be as somebody
55:42 who is running a hedge fund is you are investigating companies.
55:45 You're looking into companies.
55:46 You're giving feedback to companies
55:48 but you're not running organizations directly.
55:50 You're running your smaller organization
55:52 that's finding different companies and businesses
55:54 and evaluating their management as opposed to directly doing it yourself.
55:58 Okay.
55:58 Let me give you a different view on that than the one you just I'm asking.
56:02 I'm ask my impression and basically what
56:05 you're saying is being an investor is doing
56:08 an analytical job and a decision-making job
56:10 but not a management job is your point.
56:13 But the truth is if you're running an investment business,
56:16 you have a choice very early on.
56:18 Are you going to be the person who runs
56:20 the invest the analysis and the decision-making Allah Warren Buffett
56:25 or are you going to manage the organization which involves all
56:28 the normal things about management hiring
56:30 people measuring people holding them to account
56:33 building teams and doing strategy and that's what I did honestly so
56:37 very early on it became clear to me that my job was
56:40 to actually I had to make that choice it was a very
56:43 clear distinct choice and my job became managing people and if you
56:47 look at it I've started a lot of organizations and all
56:50 of you know if we registered 1.2 two million Californians, which we did.
56:56 That's management.
56:58 You know, if you start a bank that is a nonprofit community bank to try and go
57:03 to the places commercial banks won't go and replace
57:06 them so that you can serve underserved communities.
57:10 That's management.
57:11 You know, the truth of the matter is there are people like Warren Buffett.
57:15 And if you've ever been to visit him in Omaha,
57:17 have haven't had the pleasure.
57:18 Let me describe it.
57:21 Okay.
57:20 It's kind of like this room.
57:22 [laughter] It's it's him and an assistant that he's probably had
57:26 for 50 years in a room and he really is an investor.
57:32 Do you think it's fair that my assessment
57:34 of what you're talking about on the campaign trail,
57:37 you seem to me more excited or interested
57:40 or passionate about closing tax loopholes on corporations,
57:45 reforming the tax code, bringing in revenue to pay for the things we
57:49 need than you are on the actual kind of reasons
57:53 California has the highest per capita or one of the highest
57:57 per capita spending of any state in the country.
58:00 Texas is much lower.
58:02 We're still losing people to these states.
58:04 So, like I feel you saying we have we have we have this affordability crisis.
58:08 We need to raise revenue.
58:09 I don't hear as much about how important it would be
58:12 to figure out why California is so expensive in the government.
58:15 Why the government is so Yes.
58:16 Why the government is so Okay.
58:17 So, but let me put it through this way.
58:19 I have run organizations and I'm somebody who will go line by line and I will be
58:24 a good steward of people's tax money because
58:27 I understand very fully that every dollar we save,
58:31 every dollar we don't spend is a dollar we can spend on educating a kid,
58:36 it's a dollar we can spend on health care for people who need it.
58:41 And so actually if you look at the people I started an organization from zero.
58:46 If you think I was not minding my pennies
58:48 and actually measuring where there I didn't have a salary.
58:52 I didn't I didn't get paid.
58:54 I knew that I had to be careful.
58:56 And in every one of the things that I've done I've had to be
59:00 serious about making sure that the money that is used is well used.
59:04 And I think that if you look at somebody
59:06 who's run organizations that had to be careful about money,
59:10 I'm the I'm the person who's done that.
59:13 And I feel like being a good steward of the money is critical.
59:19 I will also say that for everybody who says
59:21 they're going to fund the growth in the, you know,
59:24 the in in services from waste, fraud, and abuse, we've seen that movie.
59:29 It's called Doge.
59:30 It failed.
59:31 And by the way, Betty Ye was the controller
59:34 of the state of California for eight years.
59:37 She's endorsed me.
59:38 Betty is a highly competent, very smart, professional person.
59:43 She told me she found $7 billion of waste fraud abuse, which is a lot.
59:47 But last night on the on the debate stage,
59:50 I think that uh Steve Hilton said it was $540 billion.
59:55 Look, we've seen this movie in Doge.
59:58 It failed completely.
1:00:00 Do will I be a good steward?
1:00:02 And look, to me, John,
1:00:04 this is a question of are you going to set hire really good people?
1:00:10 And are you then going to give them systems that enable
1:00:13 them to oversee this and watch it and be good?
1:00:16 Yes.
1:00:16 Are we going to do that?
1:00:18 Yes.
1:00:18 Am I aware that the internal information systems
1:00:22 of the state of California are several generations behind the time?
1:00:26 That's me being nice.
1:00:27 Mhm.
1:00:28 And so do I is that something that I will take seriously?
1:00:31 I'm telling you if you go around this state,
1:00:35 you can see that people are suffering.
1:00:39 And the idea that I'm going to I I will not
1:00:41 be proflegate with tax dollars because every dollar that we save,
1:00:46 every dollar that is misused, every dollar of waste, fraud, and abuse,
1:00:52 I believe is the term, is just money that we can use for people.
1:00:56 And I will not take that lightly.
1:00:57 And so, you know, you let's say you're going through the budget.
1:01:01 You're looking for places to save if we spend more per pupil than other states.
1:01:06 We don't get good results for it.
1:01:08 Uh we spend more on our roads.
1:01:10 You're also talking about uh reforming parts of the tax.
1:01:13 So, that clearly need reform.
1:01:15 For people that are not from California,
1:01:17 we have a a rule that's uh that was passed by referendum
1:01:20 that makes it very hard to change that really limits property taxes.
1:01:24 And it really it if you bought a piece of commercial real estate in the 70s,
1:01:28 you're paying extremely low rate on it.
1:01:30 You want to close that loophole.
1:01:32 But that money would then go into the
1:01:35 Well, let can I challenge some of your assumptions?
1:01:38 One of the things that people think is what you just said,
1:01:41 which is that we spend a lot per pupil and we don't get good results.
1:01:47 We have gone from being the number one education
1:01:50 state in the United States to somewhere in the 30s.
1:01:52 in in the 30s based on per pupil adjusted for cost of living.
1:01:57 But that includes all the ways in which California is expensive because
1:02:00 of how we're already going after which is what I'm going after.
1:02:03 But what my point is that we are still
1:02:05 spending a lot per people and not getting good results.
1:02:06 It's just you have to adjust it based on all the other ways California is up.
1:02:09 But if you're thinking about it from the standpoint of education for a second,
1:02:13 you're thinking about it in terms of, you know, cost.
1:02:17 But let's talk about it in terms of how education
1:02:20 is going in California and why we're not getting good results.
1:02:23 The truth is getting good results is a pretty
1:02:27 straightforward thing and people like to make it too complicated.
1:02:30 And I used to think, you know, some different things,
1:02:32 but the truth is the by far biggest determinant
1:02:35 of student success is how good the teachers are.
1:02:38 And getting good teachers is not magic.
1:02:41 This is not like we need to conjure up, you know, something.
1:02:44 The truth is you have to have hire people who are really good.
1:02:48 You have to support them and help train them and then you need to retain
1:02:51 them when they've gotten to a level where they're a huge asset to the state.
1:02:54 And we aren't doing that because you can say
1:02:57 it's a lot of money compared to other states.
1:03:00 But it's not a lot of money if you have to live in California,
1:03:03 which is why I'm talking about bringing down housing costs,
1:03:06 which is why I'm going crazy on health care costs,
1:03:08 which is why I'm saying we're going to go
1:03:10 after the electric monopolies and reduced electricity costs.
1:03:13 which is why I'm saying I'll do a windfall because it's like we
1:03:16 need to drive down those costs so that we're competitive with other states
1:03:21 and we also need to make sure that teachers being paid enough so
1:03:24 they can live in the district so we can hire really good people.
1:03:27 We should spend the money to train them and then
1:03:29 we need to retain them and you know it is true
1:03:32 that if you step back and look at the 50 states
1:03:34 then the teachers look well paid compared to the teachers in Mississippi.
1:03:37 That is true, but the costs in Mississippi are much
1:03:40 much lower and the teachers are most often living outside.
1:03:43 These are pe the reason we're having trouble.
1:03:45 It's very hard to hire teachers in California
1:03:48 because they can't live on the salary.
1:03:49 Well, we had that, you know,
1:03:50 there was a strike in San Francisco and people were mocking the teachers
1:03:52 for going on strike because of what the the salaries look like in real numbers.
1:03:56 But of course, it's because San Francisco is so unaffordable.
1:03:59 Let's t let's I want to finish.
1:04:00 I want to ask one more question about schools and I want to get to housing.
1:04:02 So, uh in January, Governor Nome proposed reform.
1:04:06 So we have a convoluted system in which the board
1:04:08 of education and the department of education are separate.
1:04:10 Do you support those reforms uh to have more authority go up to the governor?
1:04:15 I support reform.
1:04:17 I'm going to answer your question with a different perspective.
1:04:20 I never I don't understand why that's not an easy yes.
1:04:23 You're spending so much money to be governor.
1:04:24 Don't you want to be powerful?
1:04:26 Streamlining the system.
1:04:28 One of the big issues in California in education,
1:04:31 but much more broadly is coordination of multiple agencies doing the same thing.
1:04:39 Yeah.
1:04:38 And therefore you it's you're talking about in terms of hiring more people.
1:04:42 I'm talking about it and let's take it to um the fires.
1:04:46 We're in Los Angeles, the fires in Altadine and Pac Pacific Palisades.
1:04:50 There were an awful lot of agencies trying to do the right thing.
1:04:53 There was the city, there was the county, there was the state.
1:04:57 There was no coordination.
1:04:59 You're asking the I was what I said is I want
1:05:01 to reframe your question to do you believe in much clearer,
1:05:07 simpler lines of of authority.
1:05:10 Do you believe in not overlapping, you know,
1:05:14 agencies doing the same task with different rules
1:05:17 that people have to live up to, which is expensive,
1:05:20 but it's much it's much more than that.
1:05:23 It actually prevents things from getting done.
1:05:25 Right.
1:05:25 Well, that's why that's why you asked me the question.
1:05:27 I'm saying under those circumstances, of course, I'm in favor of that.
1:05:31 Okay.
1:05:31 But it's like it's a bigger question
1:05:33 than just the question you asked about education.
1:05:36 Well, this one reform is just about let's consolidate
1:05:39 some of these authorities because one of the things
1:05:40 that happens in the wake of fires is because
1:05:42 the account because the the the responsibilities are diffused,
1:05:45 the accountability is diffused.
1:05:46 And this is a proposal by the governor to make the
1:05:48 account and and that's my point is a it's a bigger question
1:05:51 than just education is all I was trying to say and every case
1:05:56 this is a you know it's it's a critical I was talking about response
1:05:59 to fire because it was so poorly coordinated clearly but it's also true in terms
1:06:04 of housing very much so when you talk about all the different agencies
1:06:08 for permitting you know it's like okay
1:06:11 it it overlapping contradictory expensive ensive time consuming.
1:06:17 Yeah.
1:06:18 Big thing about housing is it takes a really long time to get it done.
1:06:21 Here's why.
1:06:22 Yeah.
1:06:23 And so you're asking me,
1:06:24 do I think it's better to simplify and actually coordinate so that in fact
1:06:28 the people who are at the end of the decision tree get faster,
1:06:32 clearer decisions that are not contradictory.
1:06:34 Why yes, I do.
1:06:35 That's a management task.
1:06:36 So, let's talk about housing because you've been saying something
1:06:38 that's confusing to me and I just want to understand it,
1:06:41 which is one reason mayors oppose additional housing is because is it become
1:06:46 this is a critical point.
1:06:47 It becomes an unfunded mandate for schools and healthcare in their areas.
1:06:51 But at the same time, because of our property tax system, uh new homeowners,
1:06:57 new builds are one of the ways in which
1:06:59 you can get the property tax number back up.
1:07:03 And we have rules in California that require uh
1:07:07 uh local funding for schools in part based on population.
1:07:11 So I don't understand what's unfunded
1:07:12 because what's really happening for the cities and counties is they
1:07:16 used to rely on what you described accurately as real estate taxes,
1:07:20 local real estate taxes for all that stuff.
1:07:23 But nowadays they rely very much on the state to send them money.
1:07:28 So when the state says,
1:07:29 "We want you to permit 20,000 houses here and build them,"
1:07:33 they are then relying on the state to send them the money.
1:07:36 In large part, not I take your point, but in large part,
1:07:39 they're relying on the state to send them the money to fund that.
1:07:41 And that's why they put in the big fees.
1:07:43 You know, some in some places in California,
1:07:45 I think, including some some places around here,
1:07:48 the fee to build a house is up to 20% the cost of the house, which is amazing.
1:07:52 Crazy.
1:07:52 and and but they're doing it for re and I don't it's not
1:07:55 like these are wicked people who are somehow trying to rip people off.
1:07:59 They are literally terrified that they are going to put
1:08:02 themselves in a position where they cannot take care of people.
1:08:05 They cannot educate people.
1:08:07 I think it's a it's a little
1:08:09 there's yimiism if that's your sort of magnanimous fear for the future.
1:08:13 They're they're listening to the constituents who
1:08:16 are trying to fight housing in their communities.
1:08:17 There's a Yimi part of this for sure,
1:08:19 but there is also very much a money part of this.
1:08:22 There really is.
1:08:23 And I think that the money part I am obviously
1:08:28 sympathetic to because they do have to provide those services.
1:08:32 The Yimi part, I understand one size doesn't fit all,
1:08:35 but the truth is we need to build houses.
1:08:37 There's got to be.
1:08:38 But why is a new apartment or a new home more
1:08:41 of a liability than an old apartment or an old home
1:08:44 in a community when the only difference would be the property tax
1:08:47 rate and that property tax rate is lower for the old homes.
1:08:49 I understand that.
1:08:50 But the truth is they can't they don't have a choice about the old home.
1:08:53 Like the old home exists and people live there.
1:08:56 So there that's just Well, you're saying that being mayor of an empty
1:08:59 city would be very very sort of streamlined job,
1:09:02 but it's still like I don't get it.
1:09:04 But I think that they're looking for something different.
1:09:06 If you look around California over the last 30 or 40 years,
1:09:10 every city has wanted to attract business.
1:09:12 Business pays taxes.
1:09:13 Business doesn't use services.
1:09:15 Every city or county has tried to push back against housing
1:09:18 because housing is expensive because of the people who live there.
1:09:22 And so that's been the issue and it's been the issue since 1978.
1:09:26 So how much of it in terms of getting
1:09:28 this because you're in favor of SB79, which I appreciate.
1:09:30 How much of the role of governor is
1:09:33 about uh uh putting rules that localities can't break?
1:09:38 Like how much of this is collaborative?
1:09:40 How much of this is like It's both, of course.
1:09:42 I mean, you know, cuz what you're saying is do you order
1:09:44 them to do it or do you work with them to do it?
1:09:46 And of course, the answer is both.
1:09:48 Like you've got to have it's got to be a relationship.
1:09:51 It's got to be something where you collaborate and work together.
1:09:55 It is a partnership,
1:09:55 but you've got to have some kind of stick at the end of the day.
1:10:00 So, honestly, Because there is I'm not a fool.
1:10:03 The Yimi people have endorsed me.
1:10:05 But the truth is the reason there's a Yimi
1:10:07 movement is because there's a very strong NIMI movement.
1:10:10 Yeah.
1:10:10 So you so you put a lot of your own money into this race.
1:10:13 There's also money being spent against you.
1:10:15 And I was looking at who's funding these sort of ads.
1:10:18 They have, you know, their usual mysterious names.
1:10:20 And some of it makes sense to me, right?
1:10:22 Like I I the the utilities because you
1:10:24 have a a proposal to go after the utilities.
1:10:27 Uh, but I was surprised to see
1:10:28 that the the realtors have put in money against you.
1:10:33 And if you're someone who's saying, "I'm going to build a million houses." Uh,
1:10:36 I was surprised to see and and some and a builder's group is against you.
1:10:40 And I think the realtors, I do understand.
1:10:43 I think they're worried that I actually going to protect renters.
1:10:47 I think the realtors are much more about uh am I
1:10:50 in fact going to protect protect renters from you know spikes
1:10:55 in cost and am I going to push against landlords you know
1:11:00 when I think that they're being abusive but presumably the realtor's interest
1:11:04 is transactions and having properties turn over and there's a misaligned
1:11:10 incentive here because of our silly property tax rules when we put
1:11:13 in rules that make sales more expensive We ultimately can in some
1:11:18 ways reduce the property tax revenue because because properties don't get sold.
1:11:22 If realtors make money on properties changing hands,
1:11:24 are they getting are they getting are they getting something
1:11:27 wrong and spending against are they just wrong about it?
1:11:29 Well Well, let me say this too, John.
1:11:31 Do I think that I'm bad for business?
1:11:33 Hell no.
1:11:34 Do I think that I'm going to raise taxes on billionaires and big companies?
1:11:38 Yes.
1:11:38 And I've said it explicitly, but do I think that I'm the person
1:11:41 in this race who understands business by far the best?
1:11:44 Yes.
1:11:45 And I think if you look at the things
1:11:47 when I've taken on these corporate special interests,
1:11:49 I've done it on behalf of working people.
1:11:51 I've raised billions of dollars for education
1:11:54 and healthcare without charging Californians a penny.
1:11:57 And I haven't hurt the economy one bit.
1:12:00 My goal here, I always say it, is shared prosperity.
1:12:03 You can't share something you don't have.
1:12:05 It's critical for us that actually we compete
1:12:08 really well around the world, which we do.
1:12:10 We're half the growth in the United States.
1:12:12 That's critical for us.
1:12:13 We have to be a very successful dynamic economy.
1:12:17 We have to be.
1:12:18 The issue we have is we are that on average.
1:12:21 The problem is most of the people in this state can't afford to live here.
1:12:25 And we have the highest poverty rate in the United States of America.
1:12:27 And so when I talk about shared prosperity, I'm not joking.
1:12:30 But it starts with prosperity.
1:12:32 And I'm going to push very hard.
1:12:34 Look, if we bring down housing costs, okay,
1:12:37 that is great for everybody who needs to buy
1:12:39 a house and everybody who needs to rent,
1:12:41 okay, it's also great for everybody who is
1:12:43 an employee because their costs are much lower.
1:12:46 If I talk about bring down electricity costs, is that great for every family?
1:12:50 Heck yes, that's putting money in every family's pocket.
1:12:53 Oh, by the way, every business's pocket.
1:12:55 Did I mention that?
1:12:56 I don't need to talk about it.
1:12:58 But if you go into the Central Valley, you know,
1:13:00 you have to use a lot of electricity to use water and farming.
1:13:03 You know, you have to irrigate and you have
1:13:05 to move the water to where it has to go.
1:13:08 California farmers pay three times as much
1:13:09 for electricity to move water as Texas farmers.
1:13:13 I want to bring that down.
1:13:15 It's a business thing as well as a human thing in everything.
1:13:18 I'm talking about healthcare.
1:13:19 It is eating up businesses.
1:13:21 It's eating up every family.
1:13:23 You know, to be fair,
1:13:25 the teachers in who struck in San Francisco couldn't pay their healthcare bills.
1:13:30 That's what they were striking about.
1:13:31 Healthcare.
1:13:33 We really and I went on the line to ask them because I had I was like,
1:13:38 "How come you guys are striking?
1:13:39 You haven't struck in 60 years." And they're like, "We can't pay healthare.
1:13:41 We we we we're paying1 to $2,000 a month for a family of three.
1:13:46 We can't do it." And so when I'm talking about bringing down health care costs,
1:13:52 yes, that's absolutely for every family in this state.
1:13:55 It's also for every business in this state.
1:13:56 I want to make I want to make
1:13:58 sure we're competitive with everybody internationally and nationally.
1:14:02 I want this state to lead.
1:14:04 I also want us to be shared.
1:14:06 I want this to be a state we're proud of where we say we compete our ass off.
1:14:10 We succeed.
1:14:11 But you know something?
1:14:11 We don't leave people by the side of the road.
1:14:13 We're the state that takes care of everybody in the state.
1:14:15 So, let's talk about healthcare because I'm curious about how you see us getting
1:14:20 towards a singlepayer system because when I
1:14:22 I look at what what your critique is,
1:14:24 you talk a lot about about the ways in which uh uh we have a for-profit
1:14:29 system that sort of tries to provide
1:14:30 the the least amount of care for the greatest cost.
1:14:33 At the same time, in California, roughly half of the insured are insured through
1:14:38 the public system and half of the people
1:14:40 in the private market are insured through
1:14:41 the nonprofit part of the private market.
1:14:44 uh most of our hospitals are nonprofit and so in a lot
1:14:47 of ways you can talk about the profits of like
1:14:49 an Anthem or a for-profit hospital system but majority of what
1:14:53 we're spending we are spending in outside of the for-profit system.
1:14:58 So h how do you get to a singlepayer system?
1:15:01 The great thing about a singlepayer system is it
1:15:03 does take out the big profits from the health insurers.
1:15:08 It does give you an ability to negotiate with everybody.
1:15:10 And so, you know, that's not what people think about,
1:15:13 but the truth is when you look at the costs
1:15:15 that we're spending that are so much higher than singlepayer systems.
1:15:19 It's because we don't have an ability
1:15:20 to negotiate and bring down costs across the board.
1:15:23 So, it starts with the health insurers, but it goes way past that.
1:15:27 And the fact of the matter is, honestly,
1:15:30 there'll be a lot of work on this to get the details right.
1:15:34 And that, you know, is going to be, as you'll remember from 1994,
1:15:38 there's a lot of work on this to get the details right.
1:15:41 But the truth is, we don't have a choice.
1:15:43 And and that's what I keep saying to people.
1:15:44 They keep saying it's a lot of brain damage, which it is.
1:15:47 But I I you know, you sound like you've done a lot
1:15:49 of work to think about all these questions, including this one.
1:15:52 Not as much as you think.
1:15:53 No, I'm kidding.
1:15:54 [laughter] I'm going to give you a B.
1:15:56 Okay.
1:15:56 No, I'm teasing.
1:15:57 But the tr but the truth is this.
1:15:59 If you look at how much we're spending
1:16:00 on health care and how the what the trend is, it's un it's not supportable.
1:16:06 It's honest to God not supportable.
1:16:08 And so if you're sitting here this year and saying, "Well, we can, you know,
1:16:11 if we cut this and we cut education and we do this and we
1:16:15 do that, then we can make the budget work." But the truth is,
1:16:20 we're really we it is eating up every family.
1:16:22 That's why the teacher struck.
1:16:24 It's really eating up business.
1:16:26 It it is.
1:16:26 And it's eating up the budget of this state.
1:16:28 We don't have a choice.
1:16:29 And if you look at the numbers, I can send you the numbers.
1:16:31 It's one of those things where you sort of go like, oh god,
1:16:34 you know, not people say, why would you want to do this?
1:16:37 It's a lot of brain damage.
1:16:38 It's very difficult.
1:16:39 You know, there'll be lots of, you know, twoing and throwing.
1:16:43 All true, but we don't have a choice.
1:16:46 And that and we really don't have a choice.
1:16:47 And there's for everybody who says,
1:16:49 which did people did say on the stage last night,
1:16:51 we're just going to do it better.
1:16:53 It's like the reason I changed my mind on singlepayers.
1:16:56 People have told me that for so long
1:16:58 and it's like you keep telling me everything
1:17:00 they said on the stage last night that we're going to do to bring down costs.
1:17:02 I heard 10 years ago.
1:17:04 Yeah.
1:17:04 I guess what I I like to be cynical for a moment like I I
1:17:08 believe in Medicare for all I I was infuriated by the the Democrats in Congress
1:17:15 when I worked for President Obama who stood in the way of a public option
1:17:17 and then even a Medicare buyin for older
1:17:19 people which would have helped the whole system.
1:17:21 But when I look at a state like California,
1:17:22 I say like actually we do have a choice.
1:17:24 Uh we have a we have a like for example in our Obamacare exchange,
1:17:30 it's actually a a bright spot.
1:17:32 We were able to negotiate uh less of a rate
1:17:35 hike than even in a place like Texas.
1:17:37 We're able to compete on this one lever.
1:17:40 Uh we have a better public system than states we're losing people to.
1:17:46 If I'm trying to say, all right, we need California.
1:17:48 We have You're right.
1:17:49 right?
1:17:49 We're the four we're we're this massive and growing economy.
1:17:51 We're half the growth of the country.
1:17:52 We also have a high unemployment rate, right?
1:17:55 Uh we need to figure out how to get people uh who are working for businesses,
1:18:00 which means they have insurance already uh to make an affordable life here.
1:18:04 A singlepayer system isn't necessarily something they're they're looking for.
1:18:08 It's not their biggest problem.
1:18:09 It's not the cost of healthare is what they're saying, right?
1:18:12 I'm just their problem then it's their employer's problem, right?
1:18:15 And that's the truth.
1:18:17 You know, there's no way to get around what's
1:18:19 going on in healthcare and it's overwhelming and and honestly,
1:18:25 you know, I I was spending time
1:18:27 with the nurses yesterday and they see this up close.
1:18:30 The people who don't get care because it's too
1:18:32 expensive to get care until it's really a disaster.
1:18:35 The people whose lives get blown apart by getting sick.
1:18:38 all the stuff that they see on a daily basis,
1:18:41 human tragedy where in fact a simpler system at lower cost would enable us
1:18:47 to deliver and and John I don't think we have a choice there are a lot
1:18:51 of things where you can say Tom this is a complicated problem with a lot
1:18:54 of players and a lot of interest with high emotion agreed but if you look
1:18:59 at it we honestly don't have a choice if we think that healthcare is a right
1:19:04 look obviously there's another attitude which is
1:19:08 the Trump attitude which is let's kick people
1:19:11 off medical and it's not a right and in fact you know we'll go back
1:19:15 to the system where people don't get care or they get care at the emergency room
1:19:20 and obviously that what I'm trying to do with California
1:19:23 is something different look we are a really rich successful
1:19:28 powerful state we need to show what this 21st century
1:19:32 looks like we need to show what actually we can
1:19:36 do as a democrat ratic state to show I'm we
1:19:40 have to show what we stand for and what we
1:19:42 we have to stand for is healthcare is a right
1:19:44 that has got to be unquestioned and then the question
1:19:47 is and we have to start you were saying am I going to be a good steward of money
1:19:51 yes that's what this is this is saying we're going
1:19:54 to provide that at a price that we can afford
1:19:57 and that's going to be involve a lot of work
1:19:59 but that's the way it goes and in housing are
1:20:02 we going to drive down the cost of housing yes
1:20:05 is it going to be a lot of work Yes, and that's the way it goes.
1:20:08 And we're going to take on the electric monopolies, and they don't like it.
1:20:11 And they're spending tens of millions of dollars against me.
1:20:13 But you know something, they keep telling us that twice the the rate
1:20:16 of everybody else in the United States is cheap,
1:20:18 and we should just grin and bear it.
1:20:20 That is not true at a time when electricity prices
1:20:24 around the world are plummeting and ours are going up.
1:20:27 So, it's like, if you want change, you got to take on the status quo.
1:20:31 And it's hard, but somebody's got to do it.
1:20:33 And that's why I'm running for governor.
1:20:35 So you have a little uh drawing on your hand which
1:20:38 is meant to to tell you to be honest at all times.
1:20:41 Is that the idea?
1:20:43 What's what does it mean?
1:20:44 Tell me sincere.
1:20:46 Sincere, honest.
1:20:46 Do your absolute best because you can't control the outcome.
1:20:50 So, you know, Katie Porter put you on the spot
1:20:53 in the debate last night over this billionaire tax that's on the ballot.
1:20:58 And I feel like she thought she was putting
1:21:01 you on the spot because uh you're a billionaire.
1:21:05 who's spending a lot of money on this race.
1:21:07 Uh this tax is I think widely viewed as kind of uh uh
1:21:12 uh bad policy and she thought you'd be wouldn't want to say you're
1:21:17 against it but wouldn't want to say you're for it but then you
1:21:19 just said that you're for it which I think caught her off guard.
1:21:21 That that was my read of it.
1:21:23 But you don't think it's a good policy to have a one-time sir
1:21:25 charge as part of the budget and yet you said you're for it.
1:21:27 That's I think what was confusing about the Here's what I said.
1:21:30 I said if it's on the ballot I'll vote for it.
1:21:33 Right.
1:21:34 But going forward, we need to do more because it's so it I said two things.
1:21:38 Because it's a one-time thing and because
1:21:41 it doesn't distribute the money throughout, you know,
1:21:44 all the needs of Californians,
1:21:46 it just puts it into one part of the budget, which is healthcare.
1:21:50 Yeah.
1:21:50 But are you worried at all that look,
1:21:52 California already has a progressive uh income tax.
1:21:57 We are already a high tax state.
1:22:00 uh a huge amount of our state budget comes from the wealthiest earners because
1:22:03 of our corporate tax rate which is also
1:22:05 one of if not the highest in the country.
1:22:08 Uh I am all for reforming the tax code
1:22:10 and a lot of this does flow from the property tax issue.
1:22:12 But but at the same time if we are going to shift more
1:22:15 of the tax burden towards the top and we see wealthy people leave the state,
1:22:19 the critique would be you're going to start to see that revenue need to come
1:22:24 from somewhere else which means you're going
1:22:25 to start moving it down to the bottom.
1:22:27 I I feel like you're coming out in favor of this tax
1:22:30 because it's sort of the wages of being a billionaire
1:22:33 in the race and so you kind of have to say you're
1:22:35 for it even though long-term you don't think it's a good idea.
1:22:37 That's just my that's my take.
1:22:39 I I got it.
1:22:39 But let me make this point.
1:22:41 If you actually look at how the richest people in this state make money,
1:22:45 it is not the way you're describing is being taxed.
1:22:48 You know, the income tax is based on income, right?
1:22:53 But we have a cap gains rate in this state as well.
1:22:55 Yeah.
1:22:55 And and if in order to get capital gains, I last I checked, you have to sell.
1:22:59 Okay.
1:22:59 So, you're basically saying the way you pay tax
1:23:02 as an individual in this state is either to get a wage,
1:23:06 a salary or a bonus or to sell your stock in something at a at a gain.
1:23:12 Those are the two things, right?
1:23:13 Mhm.
1:23:14 Dividends.
1:23:14 Yeah.
1:23:14 Yeah.
1:23:15 Yeah.
1:23:15 But these stocks don't pay dividends to be clear.
1:23:18 Um, but you but actually that's not the way this works.
1:23:22 Because if you actually are one of these people who starts,
1:23:25 which I've said repeatedly,
1:23:26 I'm in favor of a new brilliant idea company and the thing
1:23:30 blows up and you end up being worth a ton of money.
1:23:33 You're worth a ton of money on paper, right?
1:23:36 You own stock.
1:23:37 So now John owns $10 billion worth of stock in a crypto company.
1:23:44 Okay?
1:23:45 You haven't paid any tax.
1:23:46 you know, whatever you're being paid as a salary
1:23:49 relative to your worth is dimminimous, right?
1:23:52 If anything, but what you have is a whole bunch.
1:23:55 And so, let's say, but you know,
1:23:56 the truth is you want to buy a big house or whatever the hell you want to buy.
1:24:01 Let's not get into, you know, all that name calling, but you want it.
1:24:05 Okay.
1:24:05 So, do you sell your stock?
1:24:07 No, you don't sell your stock.
1:24:09 You borrow against your stock.
1:24:12 So now you still have $10 billion worth of stock,
1:24:15 but you have a hund00 million of debt against
1:24:19 the stock which you still own and you've paid zero tax.
1:24:24 So the question is in the real world when we're seeing this explosion of wealth,
1:24:30 which we're seeing in companies that do not pay dividends,
1:24:32 thank you very much, because none of them do.
1:24:34 The way they pay dividends is by buying in shares because it's single tax.
1:24:39 The dividends are double taxation.
1:24:40 That's single taxation.
1:24:42 That's been true, oh god, for 50 years.
1:24:46 No one pays dividends that because it's taxed.
1:24:50 So instead, okay, now you have your $10 billion.
1:24:52 You've never paid any tax.
1:24:55 So the question is, actually, is this such a bad idea?
1:24:59 As I said, it's a one-time thing for a long-term problem.
1:25:03 It doesn't go far enough, and it doesn't spread the money fairly.
1:25:06 But the truth is, it's a step forward, which is what I was saying.
1:25:09 So, no, I'm not being cynical and dishonest.
1:25:12 I'm saying, look, is it perfect?
1:25:14 I said it wasn't perfect, but I said if it's on the ballot, I'll vote for it.
1:25:18 And that was the truth.
1:25:20 I hear that.
1:25:20 Do you worry all about about the like we have Yes.
1:25:27 extraordinary wealth at the top.
1:25:28 We have higher unemployment.
1:25:30 We have people fleeing the state because of affordability.
1:25:32 If we start trying to solve the problem
1:25:35 by taxing at the top more than we already are, which we are a high-tech state,
1:25:39 we will start to see even that bright spot,
1:25:42 which is the some of the biggest tech companies of the world are based here.
1:25:46 Some of the uh uh most profitable businesses in the world are based here.
1:25:48 They're not hiring enough.
1:25:49 Look, so if the people leave, that's one thing, right?
1:25:52 Yeah.
1:25:53 You now are worth $10 billion and you don't want to pay any tax on it ever.
1:25:56 So I'm moving to Florida.
1:25:57 So you're moving to Florida.
1:25:58 You now live in Florida.
1:25:59 I'd like to point out to you, John, because
1:26:00 I'd rather be I'd rather be a millionaire
1:26:02 in California than a billionaire in Florida.
1:26:03 You know what I'm saying?
1:26:04 Me, [clears throat] too.
1:26:05 But but the thing that is that I do take seriously
1:26:08 is the idea of businesses leaving because what I said to you
1:26:11 is everything I'm doing is to make us more competitive from business standpoint.
1:26:15 Every single thing.
1:26:16 So, if businesses leave, that's a different thing.
1:26:18 And last night on the stage, if you'll notice,
1:26:20 they mentioned four businesses that had left, right?
1:26:22 Mhm.
1:26:25 Tesla.
1:26:25 Elon Musk.
1:26:26 Mhm.
1:26:26 Palunteer.
1:26:28 Palunteer.
1:26:28 Um Salesforce.
1:26:30 No.
1:26:31 Oracle.
1:26:32 Oracle.
1:26:32 Charles Schwab.
1:26:33 Charles Schwab.
1:26:34 Anything that common about those companies that you've noticed?
1:26:37 You tell me.
1:26:38 Come on.
1:26:39 The Trump people.
1:26:40 Is that what you're saying?
1:26:41 Every one of those guys is a right-wing person.
1:26:43 And that's why they left.
1:26:44 They didn't leave just because of their fears about taxes.
1:26:49 They didn't leave because, you know, somehow this people may leave because
1:26:55 of this tax because this is about billionaires.
1:26:57 But the corporations that left don't like what California stands for.
1:27:03 Ellison, yeah, Oracle, Musk, Tesla, Charles Schwab,
1:27:09 who actually I have a lot of respect for but is a long-term strong Republican,
1:27:15 and Palunteer, which is Oh my god.
1:27:19 So, in answer to your question, do I care?
1:27:22 I want us to be the best place to have a business.
1:27:24 I want it to be the best place to start and grow a business.
1:27:27 And I'll do any I will if you listen
1:27:29 to what I'm saying everything I'm saying includes the prosperity
1:27:32 part of shared prosperity and I will be a dog
1:27:35 about that and I want to make the point
1:27:37 we are going to everything I'm saying is we're
1:27:41 going to support businesses because that's where we get employment
1:27:44 and that's how this state grows and we're part
1:27:46 of we're the place that imagines and builds the future.
1:27:49 So uh let's talk about Hollywood for a second and thank you for your time.
1:27:52 I think we've gone a little over but have we?
1:27:55 Yeah.
1:27:55 You've been very prol I noticed.
1:27:57 What am I?
1:27:58 Prollex.
1:27:58 Prollex.
1:27:58 What's prol mean?
1:27:59 I'm kidding.
1:28:00 It's talkative.
1:28:01 Oh, I've been talkative.
1:28:01 [laughter] I feel like I don't know.
1:28:03 I feel Am I talking too much?
1:28:05 Oh, I'm just giving you a hard time.
1:28:07 Okay.
1:28:07 Thanks.
1:28:07 Thanks for [laughter] saying that.
1:28:08 Uh, so on Hollywood, speaking of of like sort of what has made California uh
1:28:15 powerful and sort of a beacon of our economy and our culture,
1:28:20 uh, we've seen jobs in flee from LA.
1:28:24 We've seen them free from California.
1:28:25 They've gone to other states.
1:28:27 They've gone to other countries.
1:28:29 It is uh outrageous to me that uh American uh film and TV studios
1:28:35 find it more affordable to shoot in London than they do in Los Angeles.
1:28:39 We've just increased the tax breaks uh and they're trying to do some reforms.
1:28:44 What would you do both sort of as a as a leader
1:28:48 kind of as a power with the power to convene and on a policy level to ensure
1:28:52 that California remains the home of film and TV production?
1:28:56 So let me say I agree with your premise.
1:28:58 This is a critical industry for this state and this city.
1:29:01 Absolutely.
1:29:02 And people are not out competing us by being better.
1:29:06 They're out competing us by buying the business.
1:29:09 And that can't happen.
1:29:10 And so I've said, look, first of all,
1:29:13 one of the things that makes me feel better is the tax credits that we give.
1:29:18 For every dollar, we get back $1.14.
1:29:21 So this is not like a cost.
1:29:23 This is actually an investment that returns a pretty
1:29:26 darn good investment to the state of California.
1:29:29 And I think this is a critical industry for us.
1:29:31 So I don't want us to lose because other
1:29:33 people are giving more tax credits than we are.
1:29:34 and therefore we lose all of the once we've lost
1:29:38 this ecosystem which is the best in the world by far.
1:29:41 We're not getting it back.
1:29:42 It's way harder to rebuild a business than to continue a business.
1:29:46 Just I mean that's just true.
1:29:48 And so I think it's really critical that we support it through the tax credits.
1:29:52 Secondly to I want to make sure that there aren't regulations in this city
1:29:57 and this state that make it hard
1:29:59 to shoot production and particularly for small productions.
1:30:03 I want to make sure that there aren't regulations about, you know,
1:30:06 how you're supposed to do it and all the things
1:30:08 you're supposed to do before that are very expensive.
1:30:09 That means you can't do it here.
1:30:11 I want to make sure that people can compete
1:30:13 here fairly because we're going to win and we have,
1:30:15 you know, you were saying, you know, am I worried about business leaving?
1:30:20 I want our businesses to win.
1:30:22 I am competitive, John.
1:30:23 I am on team California.
1:30:25 That's the team I'm on.
1:30:26 I want to win and I want to win as a team and I want
1:30:29 to have it so that we sit here and go this is how you're supposed to live.
1:30:33 Really smart people working their ass off.
1:30:35 And let me say this, I don't think everybody who
1:30:38 works in sort of the high flying fancy jobs knows this.
1:30:42 The people who work at low paid jobs work their ass off.
1:30:46 They kill themselves for very low wages.
1:30:49 They are very skilled.
1:30:50 They are very sincere, hardworking, you know, high integrity people.
1:30:56 Seriously.
1:30:57 And so I'm not joking about it.
1:30:58 When I say I'm on team California,
1:31:00 I'm really on team California, but everybody's on the team.
1:31:03 And certainly the entertainment industry is absolutely on the team.
1:31:07 So I'm going to fight like hell to make sure that they can succeed
1:31:10 and that they can stay here and help build the state that we want.
1:31:14 Last question because I do want to touch
1:31:15 on it because I think it does matter to people.
1:31:18 you and uh you spent like 147 million so far of your own money on this race.
1:31:26 You're watching it closer than I am.
1:31:27 [laughter] Well, I hope somebody should be watching.
1:31:29 That's a lot of money.
1:31:31 120 million on ads.
1:31:33 Uh you know, you have that you have put yourself uh near the top of the field,
1:31:40 but when Swallwell drops out, a lot of people that support him seem
1:31:44 to have gone to other candidates like Pacer.
1:31:46 sort of stay there.
1:31:47 And I don't it's not about the polls.
1:31:49 There does seem to be a reluctance to see someone who is using their personal
1:31:54 fortune uh to try to uh buy their way into name recognition and into politics.
1:32:05 And there's something ugly about that in a democracy.
1:32:09 And even if you view yourself as someone who would be
1:32:11 a great governor and so therefore are willing to pay that expense,
1:32:16 you have to see it as a system that rewards people
1:32:20 that made vast sums of money in often in unsavory ways,
1:32:24 including yourself, who can then turn around and try to kind
1:32:26 of paint themselves in in another way for the public.
1:32:30 Uh what is your response to people who feel
1:32:32 that sense of um discomfort with a billionaire running for office?
1:32:37 Look, I I think there are two things you're talking about.
1:32:40 One is the one you're talking about, which is just money and politics,
1:32:43 and the other one is how people feel about billionaires, because it's both.
1:32:47 So, let's start with the easy one.
1:32:49 People are skeptical of billionaires.
1:32:50 Me, too.
1:32:51 We've seen people be incredibly arrogant,
1:32:54 selfish, self-interested, obnoxious, you know, unfeilling.
1:33:01 Yes, I agree.
1:33:02 I'm skeptical, too.
1:33:03 And it's also true that the way that money works in American politics is
1:33:08 completely out of control and has been at least since Citizens United in 2011.
1:33:13 But it's also true that right now the way this system works is through money.
1:33:20 It's just through money from big
1:33:22 corporations who are protecting their bottom lines.
1:33:26 It's through billionaires who absolutely don't want to pay tax
1:33:30 and they are absolutely willing to support including people from Palunteer,
1:33:35 including people from all the companies we were talking about,
1:33:37 even though they aren't here anymore,
1:33:39 they're willing to support people who promise they'll never tax them.
1:33:42 So the idea that somehow we have this democratic
1:33:45 system that exists and everybody has a is not true.
1:33:50 And the question is, do we need someone in this system who's willing to go
1:33:54 after the corporate special interests that actually run this state,
1:33:57 which is why they're coming after me because they like it
1:33:59 and their profits are based on their control of this state.
1:34:02 I don't know if you saw it, but I think yesterday in committee in Sacramento,
1:34:09 the head of Wasp, the Western States Petroleum Association,
1:34:13 said he thought it was the fiduciary duty of oil companies to take
1:34:17 advantage of the Iran war and gouge Californians as much as possible.
1:34:22 So, in answer to your question,
1:34:23 do I think somebody has to take on these the corporate special interest?
1:34:27 Do I think somebody has to stand up for working people against billionaires?
1:34:31 I do.
1:34:32 And if there was someone else doing it, I would be fine.
1:34:36 But if you actually want to change something, sometimes you have to change it.
1:34:41 And you know, they are spending tens of millions
1:34:43 of dollars against me cuz they think I'm sincere, too.
1:34:47 And I am.
1:34:48 And so, do I think that that's something that needs to be done?
1:34:51 I do.
1:34:53 And if someone else were doing it, I'd be fine.
1:34:56 Really?
1:34:56 I I'd go back and I I asked a bunch
1:34:59 of people if they'd do this before I decided to do it.
1:35:02 You don't think Katie Porter's willing to take on special interests?
1:35:05 You don't think Manhattan is taking on special interest?
1:35:08 I think there are other people in the I think Matt maybe.
1:35:10 Are you serious?
1:35:11 You think no or Bera is taking on the interest?
1:35:13 You Well, he's he's a reformer.
1:35:14 Maybe not taking on the special interest.
1:35:16 I'm I'm asking you.
1:35:18 He's taking money from the oil companies.
1:35:20 He's taking money from the people who are against singlepayer.
1:35:24 You No, he is.
1:35:26 They're participating in a system that's broken.
1:35:28 They're not billionaires, right?
1:35:29 I I agree the system.
1:35:30 But you're asking, are we going to change the system?
1:35:32 And I'm saying, well, the people who you're projecting, it's a Katie Porter.
1:35:36 You don't think Katie Porter has host I mean,
1:35:37 if she were doing better in the polls,
1:35:38 they'd probably be spending more against her, too, right?
1:35:40 I mean, she's hostile to special interest,
1:35:42 but she doesn't have your money to get ads up, right?
1:35:44 That that's a real thing.
1:35:45 So, the question is, can someone win and do this?
1:35:48 That is the actual question, John.
1:35:50 Not can someone be good-hearted?
1:35:51 There are lots of good-hearted people who I would be happy if they won.
1:35:55 The question is, can someone actually do this?
1:35:57 And as you pointed out, for a while,
1:35:59 apparently Eric Swallwell was leading in the polls.
1:36:03 And Eric Swallwell, it's I mean,
1:36:05 it turned out that there were, you know, bigger issues,
1:36:08 but all along there was no question that he
1:36:11 was chockling to every interest in this state.
1:36:13 That was his goal.
1:36:14 And he, you know, he and they were thrilled and and he was in the lead.
1:36:18 So when you talk about is there someone who will take on the special interest,
1:36:21 you know, I think to describe it Javier Ber is a reformer.
1:36:25 I'm sorry.
1:36:27 Did I say that?
1:36:27 If I did, I didn't [laughter] say that.
1:36:28 I'm just saying someone has to do this job and, you know, actually do it.
1:36:35 Not try to do it.
1:36:36 Not, you know, give it a nice college try
1:36:39 and then go go off and, you know, play peanuckle.
1:36:42 Somebody has to actually do the job.
1:36:44 Yeah.
1:36:44 And that's what I'm trying to do really hard.
1:36:47 Tom Styer, this is a great conversation.
1:36:48 Thanks for talking to me.
1:36:49 Really appreciate it.
1:36:50 I miss Long Island.
1:36:51 [laughter] That's our show for today.
1:36:54 Thanks to Tommy Styer for coming on.
1:36:56 I'll be back in the feed on Sunday
1:36:58 with a conversation with Senator Raphael Waro.
1:37:01 Bye everyone.
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