Why the Biggest YouTube Family Just Went to Netflix: Jordan Matter

0:00 We've signed a big deal with Netflix, but we're very under the radar.

0:03 Very.

0:03 If you go to anybody who watches YouTube and they say,

0:05 "Who are the top two?" They'd say Jimmy and I and I don't know,

0:08 and they'd say Stokes Twins.

0:09 They might say Ryan Tran.

0:11 Anybody but us.

0:11 Your viewers would have no idea that that's the reality, but it is.

0:15 Over the past year, one of the biggest stories

0:17 in entertainment has been the battle between Netflix [music] and YouTube.

0:21 And over the past few months, we've seen Netflix try and make up ground

0:25 in that battle by signing deals with YouTube creators.

0:28 These have come in a variety of different forms.

0:31 We've seen original shows get booked with creators.

0:34 We've seen licensing deals for podcasts and shows that they have.

0:38 And now we've seen a different type of deal

0:41 that was just announced this week with Jordan and Salish Matter.

0:45 Jordan spent most of his career as a photographer and took

0:47 to YouTube to make videos about photography and grow his photography business.

0:52 It now has over 30 million subscribers.

0:54 They've done 13 billion views.

0:57 And it really took off when he started making videos with his daughter Sish.

1:01 Over the past few years, Jordan and his daughter Salish have grown into some

1:04 of the most popular creators on the platform.

1:07 And Salish actually is one of the most popular people in the world.

1:10 If you go to the website famousbirthdays.com,

1:13 [music] which is kind of like Wikipedia for Gen Z,

1:17 Salish Matter is the number one most

1:20 searched birthday on that website over Taylor Swift.

1:24 And the internet really saw how popular Salish was when she launched her skinc

1:28 care brand at the Sephora of the American Dream Mall in New Jersey.

1:33 Over 80,000 fans showed up and they had to shut down the mall.

1:36 This version of a Netflix deal that Jordan and Salish got is really different.

1:40 So, I wanted to have Jordan in the chair to explain the deal and talk

1:44 about this current moment that we're seeing

1:46 with Netflix pulling YouTube creators onto their platform,

1:50 trying to become more relevant to a younger audience

1:53 and trying to operate a bit more like YouTube.

1:57 So, this is my conversation with Jordan Matter about his Netflix deal.

2:05 [music] Okay, Jordan, welcome to the show.

2:09 Thank you.

2:10 So, obviously we've talked about this off mic,

2:13 but I think it's a conversation we should bring to our podcast listeners.

2:17 You have signed a deal with Netflix.

2:18 We've signed a big deal with Netflix.

2:20 Yeah.

2:20 Super exciting.

2:21 It's super exciting.

2:22 First of all, congrats.

2:23 Thank you.

2:24 I'm fascinated by this moment.

2:25 It's something we've talked about quite a bit on the pod

2:27 that this convergence of uh digital and and traditional.

2:31 It feels like now it's

2:33 how much more can we talk about it as like two separate worlds?

2:36 It's one.

2:39 But tell me about this deal that you signed.

2:40 Just explain to to everyone what is this.

2:43 We have a very unique deal that nobody else has been given up to this point.

2:47 Um, so you you're seeing some development deals come out.

2:50 Alan Chicken Chow has one.

2:51 Uh, Jimmy obviously the Beast Games, Beast Games 2.

2:54 Uh, what that is is they present a show with a budget

2:57 and then the streaming service greenlights it and then they make it.

3:02 We have something different which is a talent deal.

3:05 So we have agreed over the next three

3:07 years to create three to four shows for Netflix.

3:10 We'll do that with Netflix, but we have creative control over their shows.

3:13 It's a huge leap of faith in us and a lot of trust

3:18 because um we did not come to them with a show at all.

3:21 They came to us with interest in us as talent

3:25 and then they want to develop something with us together.

3:28 So what those shows are are that's up in the air right now.

3:31 Yes, we're in the process of developing them now.

3:35 Lots of meetings creative.

3:36 They they're amazing.

3:37 Their creative team is really exciting to work

3:39 with and they have their own team that's developing ideas.

3:42 We are developing ideas then we come together and talk about them and we

3:46 will together come up with the best idea and we both have to greenlight it.

3:49 So they can't say to me you have to do

3:51 this and I can't say to them you have to do this.

3:53 Once we agree on a show together then we go into pre-production.

3:56 What happens if you don't agree on a show?

3:58 We will [laughter] You will have to got it.

4:02 You have to understood.

4:04 [laughter] Yeah.

4:05 So, who came to who in this scenario?

4:06 Like for for us as creators right now,

4:09 like I I think a lot of us have gotten calls from the streamers,

4:12 specifically Netflix.

4:13 Uh but they've been at least for us, they've been very exploratory.

4:16 Um who came to who in this context?

4:19 We spent the last year and a half developing an animated show.

4:22 [clears throat] And we took it out to the market to Amazon,

4:27 Disney, uh, and Netflix among others.

4:30 And right when we were starting to get those meetings,

4:33 we launched our, uh, skincare sincerely yours at the American Dream Mall.

4:37 And 87,000 people showed up to that, which

4:39 is the largest creators event in history.

4:41 That went super viral.

4:43 And then all these uh companies are not like

4:46 wait a minute maybe there's more to this than just

4:49 an animated show and Netflix and uh other I

4:54 shouldn't say who but other companies were super super interested

4:56 in developing a bigger relationship and we basically just

5:00 kind of fell in love with Netflix and they were

5:02 very open to uh allowing us to have a lot

5:05 of creative control with which we thought was super important.

5:09 It does feel like th this moment in time,

5:12 we were talking about this on a panel earlier,

5:14 I've described it as the abundance era of content because there's

5:18 just so much um I told you some numbers up there,

5:21 but 20 million videos uploaded to YouTube every day,

5:24 95 million photos and videos uploaded to Instagram every day,

5:27 23 million videos uploaded to Tik Tok.

5:29 Crazy.

5:30 And a moment like that what that you guys

5:32 had at the American Dream Mall launching sincerely yours

5:35 signifies to me and to the rest of the industry like oh out

5:38 of the 20 million videos uploaded every

5:40 day these videos clearly matter to people.

5:44 Yes.

5:43 So and and actually viewership numbers don't tell me that.

5:46 No they don't tell me that.

5:47 Not at all actually.

5:48 And as a matter of fact we didn't even know and we have we got a lot of views.

5:51 We had no idea that people would show up.

5:53 So we showed up at the mall with absolutely no

5:56 idea hoping a thousand or 2,000 people would show up.

5:59 It was the first time we had ever done anything.

6:01 So, we were learning just like everybody else that actually

6:03 this relationship we've been building with the audience over the last 5

6:06 years actually did resonate with them to the degree where they

6:09 were willing to fly from all over the world to see us.

6:11 And what what right now if we talk about some data

6:14 about the channel um what's like the average viewership of an episode

6:18 in terms of what like how how many people

6:21 how many people watch

6:23 uh I you know usually anywhere from 8 to 10 million the first

6:26 week and about 40 million over time per per video uh mostly US-based

6:33 not we only dub in Spanish a week late so they're not dubbed

6:37 views we're not on YouTube kids and they're all long form about 30 minutes

6:41 30 length.

6:41 And how long are people watching?

6:43 The we're anywhere from 48 to 52%.

6:48 That's insane.

6:49 Yeah, it's crazy.

6:50 It's really all of it's crazy.

6:52 And so that obviously has then skyrocketed Salish

6:54 to being one of the most popular people in the world within the demo.

6:59 That's what's interesting, right?

7:00 Like uh right now Matt Damon and Ben Affleck have a show on Netflix.

7:05 Okay.

7:06 And they're recognized by Emmy every demo anywhere they go.

7:10 But will they

7:12 so

7:12 I think for the most part

7:13 like you and I will definitely recognize my my sisters knows who they are.

7:19 Okay.

7:18 Right.

7:18 Or let's use somebody like Ariana Grande or any

7:22 of them like massive celebrities are recognized wide appeal.

7:26 But do they have a passionate fan base?

7:28 I don't know.

7:29 Some yes, some no.

7:30 I don't know.

7:31 Right.

7:31 If Matt Damon opens a coffee shop.

7:34 Exactly.

7:34 Is there a line on opening day?

7:36 Exactly.

7:36 I don't know.

7:37 Whereas David Dori opens a pizza shop and there's still lines.

7:40 So, there is that connection between the audience

7:43 and the creator because you've invited them into your home.

7:46 Um, when we launched Sincerely Yours, one story I like to tell is that when we

7:50 had the meeting with Sephora to try and get them interested

7:52 in us and they had no idea who we were

7:54 and we came in with all this data and they're like, "Okay, data is whatever.

7:58 Why is your product going to sell better than Ariana Grande's product?

8:02 Ariana has a beauty line in Sephora that has I guess had underperformed.

8:06 And I said, "Are you a fan of Ariana?" And they said, "Yeah, I'm all right.

8:09 What's the color of her bedroom?

8:10 What's the name of her dog?" And she had no idea.

8:13 I said, "This is the difference, okay?

8:14 Because our audience will know the answers to those questions."

8:17 And I believe that the relationship between creator,

8:20 influencer, and audience is so much deeper than between celebrity.

8:24 So there's a lot of places we can go where nobody will know who we are,

8:28 but the people that do know who we are are really

8:31 invested because we're invested in them and they're invested back in us.

8:35 So then contentwise,

8:36 is the deal with like is there a cast of characters

8:40 that Netflix wants in each [snorts] uh show or is it just Salish?

8:44 Is it Salish and you because even when you say that like when I

8:47 you know look at your videos like there's a cast.

8:50 Yep.

8:50 Right.

8:50 Yeah.

8:50 And

8:51 so my assumption would be if I'm Netflix, I'm like,

8:53 "Bring the cast." Is that the is that the the context or is it just bring

8:57 Sish?

8:58 I think it's there's I think if I pitched an idea that didn't have Salish,

9:01 they'd be like, "Okay, wait a minute here." Of course.

9:03 You know, um I think she and I will probably be

9:05 in the first the first show because that's most consistent with our channel.

9:10 We're trying to find something that makes

9:11 sense from our channel that's elevated.

9:14 However, we're also looking at the huge audience that has no idea

9:18 who we are on Netflix that should also be interested in the show.

9:22 So, with Jimmy, I think it's very obvious.

9:25 Okay, I I'm I'm a master of ceremonies.

9:27 I have game shows.

9:28 Let me just exaggerate it by 10x.

9:30 And that's the show.

9:31 And it works for us.

9:33 We are not massive.

9:34 We're not scale.

9:35 We are intimate.

9:36 We're that relationship based channel.

9:38 So, how do you scale that?

9:40 I mean, the obvious there is reality show.

9:42 what the Demilios did, the Kardashians have done, right?

9:45 Like if if we're actually saying like what is the next step if you

9:49 know when I looked and this is weeks ago now when you uploaded Salish's uh

9:54 16th birthday Yeah.

9:55 episode.

9:56 Yeah.

9:56 28 million views like that.

9:58 Super popular episode.

10:00 To me that feels akin to how people watched Kylie Jenner grow up.

10:04 Yeah.

10:06 Right.

10:05 Exactly.

10:05 And so I think the obvious answer is reality show

10:10 except the reality shows exist in conflict.

10:13 And so what do you mean

10:15 as in just think about an episode from De'Amelio's or from Kardashians.

10:21 It's not like everything is chill.

10:23 It's like oh there has to be conflict.

10:24 There has to be problems.

10:26 I don't want to have conflict with my daughter.

10:27 It's not something I don't want to create a a pl

10:30 an environment in which we need conflict in order to drive views.

10:35 Sure.

10:35 Um, the way I see the channel is I'm just building memories with my daughter

10:38 at this point and I want everything to be magical and special and fun.

10:42 So, I would say that for for this show,

10:45 it needs to be something that keeps the energy, which is playful banter

10:50 and it's a bit performative,

10:52 but it's all based in real scenarios and how do we elevate that?

10:56 Uh, one obvious thing would be, you know,

10:58 a game show of some sort between parents and kids.

11:00 But then I think that our audience actually is more interested

11:02 in watching Sish experience something and less

11:04 interested in watching her host something.

11:06 So that's kind of where we're at right now is like what is that middle ground?

11:09 Sure.

11:10 Yeah.

11:10 It's really interesting because I think what happens on YouTube for creators

11:15 when they move to streamer it can't be a far departure.

11:18 It actually has to be um you know basically

11:22 how do we do this on a bigger scale or

11:24 what do we have access to now that that we wouldn't otherwise.

11:27 And I think um the the uh uh CEO of Mythical Entertainment,

11:32 Brian Flanigan, said to me, "It has to rhyme with something." Meaning

11:37 Jimmy and Beast Games is kind of like Survivor.

11:41 It kind of rhymes with it, right?

11:42 It's not exactly the same.

11:43 It's not the same thing, but it kind of rhymes with it.

11:45 I I loved when he said that cuz I was like I think as we

11:48 all move to streamers we can't just concept

11:51 like a completely brand new thing especially because

11:55 there's a there's a bigger audience that's never heard of you

11:59 so then that means it has to rhyme with something.

12:02 I love the rhyme with something and a couple

12:04 of ideas that we're working on currently do rhyme with things cool

12:07 and so that could be a direction but yeah that's that's a great idea.

12:11 Yeah.

12:11 So, and I imagine that part of also the X factor of Netflix,

12:15 even when I think about it,

12:16 because I I oftentimes think about why would creators do a streaming deal.

12:22 Yeah.

12:21 You reach 40 million people with your show.

12:25 Why?

12:25 One of the reasons is an irrationally good economic deal.

12:30 That's one option, right?

12:31 [laughter] Yes.

12:32 That's one option, which is

12:33 Yes, it is.

12:33 Yeah.

12:33 If Netflix offers me an irrationally good deal, Uhhuh.

12:37 of course it's a yes.

12:39 Right.

12:39 And they have that ability.

12:40 Yes, they do.

12:41 which is Yeah.

12:41 Okay.

12:41 [laughter] So, it sounds like you're not gonna say the number,

12:43 but it sounds like it's a good

12:45 I mean, I think that that's an aspect of the decision.

12:47 [laughter]

12:47 Aspect of the decision.

12:49 Hypothetically, that would be an aspect of your hypothetically.

12:51 Um, so I think that's one.

12:52 The other is like access and the other is budget to do something and time.

12:59 Time because we make a video every week.

13:02 So, the our process is Tuesday through

13:04 Saturday we're in pre-production and Sunday we're filming.

13:07 We only want to film one day so Salish

13:08 can have a regular life the rest of the week.

13:10 So, we have to get our 30-minute video done in one day.

13:13 Now, anybody that makes 30-inute videos that get 50% retention,

13:17 understand that that's very hard to do if you have a month, much less one day.

13:21 And that's what we do every week.

13:23 So, what I'm excited about creatively is wait,

13:27 I have a production team that's helping me.

13:30 I have the support of Netflix.

13:31 I have their resources and their connections and we can come

13:34 up with something that we can take three weeks to film.

13:38 Yeah.

13:38 [clears throat] That's so exciting.

13:40 So, creatively, it's the next step up.

13:43 Um, very important to never forget that all

13:46 of this happened because of YouTube and to stay

13:48 consistent with our posting and to make the content just as good as it was,

13:51 but then somehow find another gear to shift into for Netflix.

13:56 H what is what is success to you

13:59 for the show and what success to Netflix you think?

14:03 Number one show on Netflix.

14:04 Number one show on Netflix.

14:05 That would be success for both of us.

14:06 Now, that might not happen, but that was would be what success is.

14:09 I don't think, and again, I don't want to speak for Netflix,

14:13 but I don't think that it's about driving subscribers as much.

14:16 It's about relevance.

14:18 It's about owning the creator space, you know?

14:21 It's like they're they're heavily invested in creators.

14:23 They they get it.

14:24 They really do.

14:25 They get the the passion of the audience.

14:27 They get the creativity.

14:28 We're used to a very quick turnaround.

14:31 and um they're very excited to work on that in a way that isn't

14:36 as [clears throat] I don't know predictable as a lot of Hollywood content is.

14:42 It's a it's a new thing.

14:43 And one of the things to their credit

14:44 is they've said don't try to be anything else.

14:46 Don't don't try to do a show that isn't you.

14:50 You're here because of what you've done on YouTube.

14:52 Let's figure out a way to elevate that a bit.

14:54 But really, it's the same show.

14:57 I think there's another element to why creators should take the deal.

15:01 And it actually it really it came up when we were

15:05 in Montana together at Spotter Summit and Issa Ray was speaking to us,

15:09 which is marketing.

15:10 And I hadn't thought of that before,

15:12 but if there's one thing that Hollywood has been exceptional at, it's marketing.

15:16 Yeah.

15:16 and you becoming the number one show on Netflix, I would assume,

15:20 you know, or even in the pursuit of that, in being partnership with Netflix,

15:23 there's a lot of incentive to market Salish, to market you, to market the show.

15:29 Yes.

15:28 And again, in a sea of content, in a sea of creators, you start to stand out.

15:33 Yeah.

15:33 When you have a marketing engine behind you,

15:35 that's true.

15:35 It takes you to the next level.

15:36 However, there's some pros and cons of that, too, because right now, I mean,

15:42 I we're in the top two US views on the platform after Jimmy, right?

15:47 So, that's incredible.

15:48 But we're very under the radar.

15:50 Yeah.

15:50 Very.

15:50 If you go to anybody who watches YouTube and they say,

15:52 "Who are the top two?" They'd say Jimmy and I and I don't know.

15:55 And they'd say Stokes twins.

15:56 They'd say Ryan Trean.

15:58 They'd say anybody but us.

15:59 Yeah.

15:59 Your viewers would have no idea that that's the reality, but it is.

16:02 Right.

16:02 So, that's a good place to be,

16:06 especially when you have a daughter and you care about her emotional health.

16:11 We, she and I have talked a lot about this, like, look,

16:13 we go to Netflix, a lot of people are going to have opinions.

16:15 Those opinions might not, they for no reason.

16:18 They might just want to come after you.

16:19 Who's this 16-year-old who's suddenly on Netflix?

16:21 Why do I care?

16:21 Well, let me shoot knock her down a few pegs.

16:24 And I think you get increased exposure, but you also get in increased criticism.

16:29 And that's something that we're gonna have to be ready

16:31 for because not everyone's going to love what we do,

16:33 especially because they won't know who we are.

16:35 And Salish has no real interest in fame.

16:38 So, it's not like she's pursuing it and wants

16:40 to be the most famous person on the planet.

16:42 She just loves making content.

16:43 She was excited about the Netflix thing,

16:45 but I don't necessarily know that she wants to experience all that.

16:49 And so, that's one of the conversations we've been having.

16:52 That's complex because

16:54 a lot of people who who get it all

16:59 kind of reflect on the um beauty of anonymity.

17:08 Yes.

17:07 Yeah.

17:07 And it it just it just dominoes.

17:11 Yeah.

17:10 You know, you you start by doing content with your kid

17:14 and it just it's like the thing is it's fun.

17:17 We have so much fun.

17:18 She loves doing it so much

17:20 and she sees the opportunities in the future.

17:22 Potentially she could start her own business or whatever production company.

17:25 She sees it, but she's never into it for fame.

17:29 So when that when that recognition comes, it's almost a byproduct of it.

17:33 And now she's got to adapt to that.

17:35 But by the time that happened,

17:37 you're already there, right?

17:38 So to stop Well, that's stopping the fun

17:40 thing for the thing that already exists.

17:42 So that's the that's the dance we've been doing.

17:45 It's like, are you good?

17:46 Because she's like, she said, if I could go to a mall and nobody knows who I am,

17:50 like that would be a great day for me.

17:51 That's her perspective, right?

17:53 It's like, okay, say when we do the Netflix thing,

17:57 it's it's might take you to more of the mall experience.

18:01 You might not be able to go to the mall.

18:02 Yeah.

18:02 Right.

18:02 And and that's a real conversation that you got to really address and think,

18:06 is this what you want?

18:07 It's exciting, but also that's a byproduct of it.

18:10 And I think it's important for anybody who

18:12 works with their kids to have very open,

18:13 honest conversations about, is this what you want?

18:16 I think she's old enough now to really be able to make those decisions,

18:20 but it's it's something that we'll see.

18:22 You know, I guess one of the benefits of failure would be anonymity, right?

18:28 [laughter] So, if you want to see glasses half full either way,

18:31 if we succeed, that's awesome.

18:33 If we fail, then you can go to the mall.

18:35 Yeah.

18:36 I mean, the worst case scenario is is the show failing, but but no anonymity.

18:40 [laughter] Everyone's like, "Ler, your show sucked." Yeah.

18:44 But I I mean, I appreciate you bringing that up because I think that's you,

18:47 of course, like we're we're talking about

18:48 the business of of the creator economy.

18:50 fact that we have companies like Netflix coming

18:53 in and like this is a really exciting moment but when

18:55 you're doing something with your kid and when you're doing

18:58 something in that space as well there's a lot of

19:01 uh just real human life considerations to it

19:04 and you know Netflix has been the home

19:06 of some very rough documentaries about family channels

19:09 yeah deservedly so those channels I think and

19:14 I never wanted that I never wanted a relationship with her that was

19:18 built on acrimony or built on her feeling any for sure.

19:20 And every week we always check in.

19:22 You feel like filming this week?

19:23 How do you like this idea?

19:24 Listen, if you don't if you want to stop doing this, give me three

19:27 months notice so we can kind of tell the audience we're we're winding down.

19:31 The way I see this now is I'm making memories with my daughter.

19:34 And what I love about this deal more than

19:36 anything is I just got three more years of memories.

19:39 We signed up for three years.

19:41 So now we get to create content together,

19:43 whether or not it's on YouTube or Netflix or both, for another three years.

19:46 And for me as a dad, that is all that matters.

19:49 I should call your contact at Netflix and say, "Listen, I got a son.

19:52 I'd love to make some memories." [laughter]

19:54 What kind of deals you What kind of deals you offering?

19:58 You might be a little young, your son, but soon.

20:00 He's too young.

20:01 Yeah.

20:01 Uh, yeah.

20:03 I I I'm curious if you could take me into the room with Netflix

20:06 and expand a little bit for everyone about this moment in time because

20:12 I look at this moment.

20:13 It It's finally here.

20:15 You know, Fox just launched Fox Creator Studios.

20:18 Netflix is clearly interested in our world.

20:20 You know, they're even interested in podcasts.

20:22 They're interested in everything.

20:24 Jimmy's the number one show on Prime Video.

20:26 Like, it's here.

20:27 All of our friends

20:28 are now making the shows that are, you know, especially in the unscripted world.

20:33 Uh but but we've even seen scripted

20:35 with the Rocka brothers making a hit movie with A24.

20:38 like our friends uh the people who have made content

20:42 for the internet age are now getting to make content with

20:45 the establishment of Hollywood.

20:48 Uh is this moment over in a year?

20:54 Meaning like are they are they not as excited in a year?

20:56 Are the outcomes actually going to be there?

20:58 This is why I'm I'm so curious about what's inside that room

21:01 because I I'm trying to navigate what success means and how this continues.

21:06 Okay.

21:07 um you know are they giving irrational deals to the point where they're going

21:10 to look back and go specifically in podcasting I look at this and I go

21:16 with Netflix like I hope this is a sustainable strategy because this is cool

21:19 but are we going to hear about Netflix podcast in 12 months I don't know

21:24 right right it's a great question I think it's about the quality

21:28 of the content I mean if you you talked

21:31 about how many videos are produced every day but think

21:33 about how much content is on Netflix already Yeah, they don't need more content.

21:38 They they need unique content, exciting content.

21:42 And as long as this the creators are able to deliver

21:45 that, I think they'll be excited because you're bringing in a natural audience.

21:49 But there's I think if you think about YouTube right now,

21:53 how many creators are making content worthy of a bigger platform?

21:59 Maybe millions, maybe not.

22:01 Right?

22:01 Like it's the question is

22:02 millions of creators.

22:03 No, not really.

22:04 I'm just trying to be generous like you know like how many

22:06 I actually don't think a I don't know if it's a hundred exactly

22:09 I I I think there's a there's a very scarce group that can make stuff

22:14 and that is even has the operational knowhow

22:17 or the instinctual knowhow to to make stuff

22:20 because YouTube inherently is not built for that kind of production.

22:25 So most people are are not thinking of it that way.

22:29 Creativity is very simple on YouTube often

22:33 and yet it's much more complex on Netflix.

22:35 I mean the difference we're looking at is we

22:37 have to make a 30-minute video a week now.

22:39 We're going to have to make 10 hours of content for one show.

22:42 So the difference between asking somebody to watch 30

22:44 minutes versus 10 hours of a 10 episode show of one that has one arc

22:49 is it completely I like I don't I mean I I

22:52 believe I can do it but I haven't done it yet.

22:54 So I'm sitting here now.

22:55 Let's let's meet in a year and see how it goes because I I don't know.

22:59 I just believe strongly that we can

23:01 find it together to create something amazing.

23:03 But I don't think a lot of people will be successful at it as much

23:07 as they may seem like they would be

23:09 successful based on the views they're getting on YouTube.

23:11 I think they're two totally different beasts.

23:13 So probably there'll be, you know,

23:15 a pendulum swing back where there's some successful shows, some not successful.

23:19 We'll probably see some very successful shows from creators

23:22 who maybe don't have 20 million view average per video,

23:26 but really have a niche or have a specialty and that excites

23:30 people and then they make a show that gets very popular.

23:33 I I think there may also be, you know, again,

23:37 what happens here when we sat with Daniel

23:40 Ek from the the founder and CEO of Spotify,

23:43 he he he had this line to us that I'll never forget about, you know,

23:46 we asked him about those mo that moment

23:48 of the $250 million Joe Rogan deal and the, you know,

23:52 $60 million Caller Daddy deal when that first moment happened.

23:55 We were like, how does that what what what was that?

23:59 And his answer was he wanted to inject energy into the space.

24:03 If they were going to be a podcasting company,

24:05 they needed podcasting to be aspirational.

24:09 Smart.

24:09 Very smart.

24:10 Very smart.

24:11 It is the best case scenario to be on the receiving end of that.

24:14 Yes.

24:15 Right.

24:15 And I'm wondering if that is partially what's happening here where you get

24:20 to be on the receiving end of this moment of injecting energy into the

24:25 the the space.

24:26 We are we're in the right moment.

24:28 you're in the right moment because [clears throat] we're early.

24:30 The correction that may or may not happen,

24:33 I mean, one version of it may be that yeah,

24:35 you just make a hit show and you're the best at making

24:38 a a family ccentric show for Netflix and that has been proven.

24:42 the the the correction that's I think my assumption that happens next is

24:46 there is a packaging and pairing of talent where they go Jordan knows

24:50 a lot about capturing attention in this space but there's also another great

24:54 director and showrunner who's been doing this for 25 years who also knows

24:58 a lot what happens if that's a show team yeah that's now

25:03 a powerful show team and I I don't you know I saw it firsthand

25:06 with my eyes with Beast Games where I saw Jimmy's team and I

25:10 saw the traditional team people who

25:12 had been making reality competition shows forever

25:15 and they were kind of butting heads in in the first season

25:18 and uh you know we obviously made a behind the scenes piece where that's

25:21 like the core [snorts] concept of the piece is watching them but heads um

25:25 but then when we saw them come together we were like wait this is

25:27 a really powerful team they they're coming up with really unique ideas and even

25:31 even as I'm watching season two I think the twists at the end

25:35 of every episode in season 2 are some of the best twists I've ever

25:38 seen in reality TV and then I look at this 10 years out

25:41 And I I called Jimmy and I told him I was like this, you know,

25:44 Beast Game season one I was like this is cool.

25:46 I think you're doing you're doing a big thing.

25:47 You're doing a cool thing.

25:48 Season two I'm like oh this could be a franchise.

25:52 Mhm.

25:52 And so that's that's what I'm curious

25:53 about is actually looking at creators right now.

25:58 The the industry is looking at us as like full one-stop shop production houses

26:02 in a way where it's like come up with the idea, we trust you.

26:04 Yeah.

26:05 Do everything.

26:05 Bring us a show.

26:07 Uh and I think the the situation that may

26:11 occur is like you guys know a lot about something

26:14 but our these leg like we shouldn't throw away

26:17 what has happened in Hollywood for the past hundred years.

26:20 Like people know a lot about how

26:22 to make good entertainment and make long-lasting franchises.

26:25 Let's just let's just pair these people together because now it's interesting.

26:29 That's what our deal is.

26:30 Right.

26:30 Exactly.

26:31 Yeah.

26:31 Makes sense.

26:32 So So we did not bring them any of that.

26:33 Right.

26:34 So you didn't bring them a show?

26:35 We didn't bring them a show.

26:36 nor do we have a production company.

26:37 So, they're not expecting us to create it in any way.

26:40 We're going to come up with the show,

26:41 then they're going to introduce us to several different production companies,

26:43 and we'll decide which one will work together.

26:45 When I say creative control, I mean,

26:47 they're giving me the option to be as invested as I want to be in it.

26:50 But most likely, I'll say, "You guys have done this.

26:53 You know more than I do about it.

26:54 You take the lead on this, and I'll tell you when it's

26:57 it's verging off the path of what would make sense for our audience." Yeah.

27:02 So, so we're exactly the test case for that, right?

27:06 That'll be really exciting to watch.

27:08 I'm I'm very curious about [laughter] this moment.

27:11 Yeah.

27:11 I I I'm I'm over the moon about it

27:13 because when I first started on YouTube in 2011,

27:16 I was like, I think this is going to happen.

27:19 It's happening.

27:19 And now it's happening.

27:20 It's happening.

27:21 I mean, Netflix is actively interested in creators.

27:26 Yeah.

27:25 Um I know that, you know, other streaming platforms are as well.

27:29 And you know, if you've got multiple options,

27:32 I say go with Netflix cuz I just like they're so good to work with.

27:35 They're they're really like, for example, they kept saying,

27:39 cuz I kept saying in the negotiations, Salish's time is primary to me.

27:42 She has to be able to be a kid.

27:44 Like, we can't send her to Romania for 3 months.

27:48 That won't work.

27:49 and they're like, "Of course,

27:50 I'm a mother and you you we will only commit to the show

27:56 that allows her to have her ability to go to school,

27:59 see her friends, do her sports, and then find time to film it on the side." So,

28:03 they're they're [snorts] really willing to work with It's

28:07 not just that they're taking our audience and saying,

28:08 "Make something." They want to, I think, have a long-term partnership with us.

28:14 They they don't want it to be three years unless all the shows bomb, right?

28:19 But I think they're looking at long-term

28:21 relationships with creators much like they looked

28:23 at Adam Sandler long-term relationship with a with a a talent deal he got

28:28 essentially an overall deal of some way, shape, or form.

28:30 Yeah.

28:30 And they're looking at it long term and and it's it's really exciting.

28:34 Okay.

28:34 Can I pitch you some shows?

28:36 Yeah, please.

28:37 [laughter]

28:38 Okay.

28:38 So, uh first full disclosure,

28:40 I am a uh investor in Sincerely Yours skincare brand.

28:44 Yes.

28:44 So, I'm [laughter] interested.

28:46 Couldn't have gotten there without him.

28:47 Yeah, that's right.

28:49 Um I'm I'm interested in how those two things tie together.

28:52 I also just obsessed with the name Sincerely Yours.

28:54 I think it's fantastic.

28:56 Thank you.

28:57 Um okay, if we think about like a show

28:59 that rhymes with something that has worked really well.

29:01 I think one of the most if you look at Netflix,

29:03 a lot of what works on Netflix is actually like death and disaster.

29:07 Yes.

29:07 It's murder mystery.

29:08 It's poop cruise.

29:09 It's like, you know, these these things that are like death and disaster.

29:12 So then I looked to the like wholesome direction of what works in wholesome.

29:16 What works in wholesome programming is transformation.

29:19 So queer eye successful show on Netflix feels good.

29:22 You cry you feel great.

29:24 I think we can come up with a show that maybe rhymes with Queerey here.

29:28 You already have.

29:29 Okay.

29:29 Got it.

29:30 It's not that I have.

29:31 It's that we created it together with Matt and Rebecca at the spotter summit.

29:36 Got it.

29:36 Okay.

29:37 So So one of the ideas was incubated at the spotter summit.

29:41 Yeah.

29:40 And it's one of the ones that sp that I think

29:43 that there's something like that where

29:45 yes where there's transformation there's can I

29:47 make someone's dream come true can I take someone from but but to me

29:52 they write in a letter and sign it sincerely yours dude that's so good

29:58 okay [laughter] hold on I got to go back

30:00 to Netflix and say scrap everything you're doing this

30:02 it's called sincerely yours

30:03 I want to say what the idea is you know you're supposed to not say this

30:07 don't say it don't say it right we'll watch it

30:08 on Netflix I know that there was a discussion about a road

30:11 trip idea I'm not positive on that one cuz I don't

30:13 think I I've seen anything that captures attention in that way.

30:17 And we don't that's not a thing we do.

30:19 Yeah.

30:19 I think um the other thing that I

30:20 think is interesting is because of who Sish is,

30:24 there's a lot of celebrity kids who are uh fans of hers.

30:29 Correct.

30:30 Yeah.

30:30 So, there's a talent play here where it's you and Salish versus, you know,

30:38 Khloe Kardashian and her daughter and a cooking challenge,

30:43 a you know, like I that that's something that I see.

30:46 Okay.

30:46 See, that's interesting because Okay.

30:47 Wow.

30:47 We if if we hatch the show on your show, that's so cool.

30:52 Yes.

30:53 Um but so that's very fascinating to me because um what

30:55 we've been thinking about is what sort of game show Yeah.

30:58 Because that is a format that works, right?

31:00 that could we do?

31:01 Because I don't necessarily think that us

31:02 as hosts is that exciting for our audience.

31:05 No, I think like boys versus girls, kids versus adults.

31:08 Yeah.

31:09 Generically, parents versus their kids.

31:11 I don't know.

31:12 Us versus a celebrity family.

31:14 Yes.

31:14 Very fun.

31:15 That's fun.

31:15 And I think what I could see is like Oh, very fun.

31:18 Imagine there's, you know, Try Guys have a show called Without a Recipe.

31:21 Okay.

31:21 Which I think is a fantastic show.

31:22 I think something similar with like like

31:24 something that you have to build without instructions

31:26 or or a recipe that you have to make like what the Try Guys do.

31:29 Um, but I imagine it being where like Salish

31:33 and maybe Khloe's daughter are in the like competition room.

31:37 They have to start and they get, you know, x amount of minutes.

31:42 You and Khloe are in another room.

31:44 You don't know how far they've made it.

31:46 You guys then swap and get in and you're like,

31:49 "What did Sish do?" Okay, that's what she's What is she thinking here?

31:52 That's super cool.

31:53 And you start making based on what she was doing,

31:55 but you actually have no idea where this thing is going to end up.

31:58 So, you just have ingredients.

31:59 Again, this could either be building or cooking, but you have ingredients.

32:03 You have to make something in the 30-minute aotted time.

32:06 It's kids and parents on the same team,

32:08 but they don't get to see what each other are doing.

32:10 And you have to see how connected.

32:12 Okay, that's really interesting because we're at the lighthouse right now.

32:15 At the lighthouse, uh, somebody just came up to me,

32:17 April, for this and said, I want my daughter's a fan.

32:19 I want to pitch you something.

32:20 Uh, Salish cooking show.

32:23 Really?

32:23 Yeah.

32:23 I think cooking is just fun.

32:25 Like cooking has always worked, right?

32:27 Like I think for forever we will watch cooking uh

32:31 a as as humans we will always watch people cook.

32:33 My wife almost exclusively watches cooking content.

32:36 Do you think there's anything there's something interesting

32:37 in the same people cooking every week though?

32:39 So if it would be me and Salish always versus another couple another group

32:43 is that okay or is it because usually it's new people that TB TBD.

32:47 Yeah.

32:47 I think the other the alternative is like the challenges are different each,

32:51 but I I'm not sure how much that is

32:53 working uh in episodic content right now where

32:56 it's like start and finish an episode and you

32:59 don't have to go watch the next episode.

33:00 I think it has to all build to like one eventual thing.

33:04 Um generally it seems generally it seems right now, right?

33:07 It feels harder to contain it in like episode one is cooking,

33:11 episode two is building, you know, I don't I don't know.

33:14 Um, so that that I I think you guys being the through line is super important.

33:20 Um, but yeah, you're right.

33:23 I I I I'm not sure.

33:24 I either it's like a set of 10 families and it whittleles down

33:28 to one winner at the end or it's you guys versus every episode.

33:34 Yeah.

33:33 Or it could be Sorish versus some Netflix kid.

33:36 Get Owen Cooper in there.

33:37 You get Sadi Sink in there.

33:39 She's always going after a different, you know, challenge or something.

33:41 Yeah.

33:41 Or Robber.

33:42 I don't know if he's open to it, but Mark and his son could be interesting.

33:45 There's a lot or or and maybe at the end of the the the series

33:49 if just to tie a throughine to it,

33:51 you guys are opening a restaurant with the uh with every dish

33:56 that you made along the way and inviting a bunch of people.

34:00 Okay.

34:00 Now you're because because Netflix big because up to that point I was like,

34:04 well, I could kind of do those shows, right?

34:06 Right.

34:07 Right.

34:07 But now I can't do that though.

34:08 Yeah.

34:09 Yeah.

34:09 Yeah.

34:09 And then people are judging the dishes.

34:11 I don't know.

34:11 You know, maybe we could get there at the end, but this is this is real time.

34:15 This is we aren't in a in a room thinking yet.

34:17 Yeah, I love it.

34:18 But those are those are two ideas I could see.

34:21 Dang.

34:21 You want to come to all the meetings with me in Netflix?

34:24 And then you could pitch your idea with your kid.

34:26 Sounds like a good memory.

34:27 Yeah.

34:27 For the right price, I'll make some memories with [laughter] you.

34:31 We'll do it for free.

34:33 Give us all your time.

34:34 So, when can we expect to see the first show?

34:36 I think our goal is at the end of this year.

34:38 That's that's a huge lift.

34:40 Wow.

34:40 first show in 2026.

34:42 That's our goal.

34:43 Wow.

34:44 Yeah.

34:44 Amazing.

34:44 And are you talking to some of the other creators who have gotten Netflix

34:47 deals and does it feel like like I'm watching Mark Robber become a Netflix guy?

34:52 You know, he's hosting more stuff on Netflix.

34:54 He's he he's becoming like Netflix talent.

34:57 Yes.

34:57 I Is it fair to assume that there's going to be

35:00 kind of a roster of Netflix talent that you

35:02 will join that you you'll be probably pulled into other

35:04 shows as well and be a part of their ecosystem?

35:08 They're they're respectfully uh understanding St.

35:11 Lish's time for school, but are very interested in that kind of relationship.

35:16 For sure.

35:19 Yeah.

35:18 Yes.

35:18 So, it just depends on her level of interest.

35:21 How does YouTube feel about it?

35:22 Have you talked to them?

35:23 They've asked that the the um I think that YouTube is very interested

35:28 in whether these creators are going to continue to make content on the platform,

35:32 of course.

35:33 Um and I've assured them.

35:34 I think that the whole point is the foundation.

35:37 It's a springboard.

35:38 Like once you take your eye off your content on YouTube,

35:41 you lose all the advantages you have for being a creator, right?

35:45 Because you have no way to get people to see

35:46 your show or to keep them interested in you.

35:49 So, my plan is to keep making weekly uploads.

35:50 It's going to be hard, but that's my plan.

35:52 But I think YouTube might be a little bit like, uhoh,

35:55 our our our bigger creators are now abandoning the platform for Netflix,

36:00 and I don't I don't think that's going to be true.

36:02 Do you think YouTube would ever bring back YouTube originals to to to combat

36:07 this or do you think it's just an acceptance almost where

36:13 there there's a lot of pride in hey that comedian came from SNL?

36:18 I think the fact that YouTubers are making these shows reflects well on YouTube

36:23 and I think it's it's a good it's a good um it advocates for them well.

36:28 I don't think YouTube originals would have the same cache it had

36:34 in comparison to Netflix or Disney.

36:37 I think it is it is always to YouTube's benefit that they

36:41 don't have to cut you that check that Netflix just cut you.

36:46 Yeah.

36:45 And you will still upload.

36:47 And and you know, maybe a harsh reality, but I think if you uploaded 50% less,

36:55 it would impact your fans more than it would impact YouTube.

36:59 Yeah, I mean, you know, we're renting real estate on YouTube.

37:02 I don't know how much it would impact YouTube at all if we left altogether us

37:07 but but as a whole if everybody starts going

37:10 and going then then that's a problem for them.

37:12 But it isn't it it is actually a net benefit

37:14 to the conversation around ad dollars coming to YouTube if

37:18 you're getting a Netflix deal because it then clarifies

37:21 to the advertising market that what's happening on YouTube is worthy.

37:25 That's a good point.

37:25 That's a very very good point.

37:26 I actually think it's a net benefit to the narrative.

37:29 You're right.

37:29 If everyone does it, it's challenging.

37:31 But I think Jimmy getting elevated is only positive.

37:36 Yes, he's still uploading to YouTube.

37:37 Maybe he's uploading 20% less, but it doesn't matter.

37:41 Actually, I don't even think he is.

37:42 He's every other week consistently.

37:44 I think actually he added gaming and reacts back, so never mind.

37:47 Yeah, he's uploading more.

37:48 Doubling down [laughter] somehow.

37:49 How?

37:49 I don't know.

37:50 He does this all.

37:51 Yeah, but really it's it's just I don't think any creator who

37:54 understands how this whole funnel works

37:56 would consider stopping their posting on YouTube.

37:59 No, I agree.

38:01 Yeah.

38:02 So, it's all in that benefit to YouTube.

38:04 Yeah.

38:04 Cool.

38:05 Well, dude, I can't wait to see what you make.

38:07 Let's meet together in a year and see how it goes.

38:09 Yeah, let's definitely meet together.

38:10 Hopefully, we meet together before then.

38:12 Yeah.

38:12 Well, yeah, but [laughter] that just sound like a cool thing to say.

38:15 I'd like to see it before a year.

38:17 I thought we were doing an outro there.

38:18 I was like, "This is a good ending line here." And then you like interrupted it.

38:22 Okay, try a different one.

38:23 Okay.

38:23 Uh, I love you, man.

38:25 Thanks.

38:26 [laughter] Okay, see you guys.

38:28 Use the first one.

38:30 That was great.