MKBHD Is Not Buying The AI Panic

0:00 Hey, everyone.

0:00 Welcome back to the In Good Faith podcast where every week I talk

0:03 to people I think are the most important and influential people in the world.

0:06 And this week my guest is MKBHD, otherwise known as Marques Brownlee.

0:10 And Marques has been doing tech reviews since he was just 15 years old.

0:13 Now in his early 30s, I think he's the biggest name out there all while

0:17 also being a professional ultimate frisbee player on the side.

0:20 And so today we talked about the future of tech, the AI bubble,

0:23 if Apple has lost its way, how he views politics, and his life as a creator.

0:26 So hey, buckle up and if you enjoy this episode,

0:28 give it five stars on Spotify and Apple and give it a like on YouTube.

0:31 Marques, I feel like in this in the in the kind of the tech space and industry,

0:36 your your words have a lot of weight.

0:39 And so I would I would immediately just want to jump

0:41 into the question as someone that's been kind of a an Apple fanboy.

0:45 Uh do you feel like Apple has lost its way since Steve Jobs died?

0:49 Uh do you think it's true?

0:50 Is it the same company?

0:51 Is it a different different company?

0:53 If so, does that mean it is lesser, same, or greater than?

0:57 Oh wow.

0:58 Okay, well, I do know that in the tech

1:00 world and any any public-facing figure always,

1:03 without any doubt, always has people who miss the old version of them, right?

1:09 And this applies to companies, too.

1:10 I miss the old Apple.

1:12 We will always hear that forever, no matter what Apple does.

1:15 But you can also point to a point in time where

1:19 Steve Jobs was leading Apple and then Tim Cook was leading Apple.

1:22 There's like Steve's Apple and Tim's Apple.

1:25 And Steve was obviously really good at what he did.

1:28 He was also a product guy and I like product guys,

1:31 people who get really get into the nitty-gritty of the actual thing

1:34 that you're buying and that is the core of what drives the business.

1:37 Tim, nothing against Tim, not a product guy.

1:41 He's just not.

1:41 Like I've talked to him, I've interviewed him on camera, it's very clear.

1:44 I asked him about products, that was my mistake.

1:46 He's not a product guy.

1:47 He's the He was the supply chain guy, the business guy.

1:50 He is the guy that all the shareholders love that has brought

1:53 that company to historic new heights as far as value of a company.

1:58 But I think it would be fair to say that they've

2:00 lost a little bit of the inspiring new uh product innovation.

2:07 Now there's still new stuff, plenty of talented people work for Apple.

2:11 Vision Pro is new and at least

2:12 interesting and these new MacBook Pros are incredible.

2:15 Uh so they're not they haven't lost their way, they're just different.

2:19 Well, uh okay, on the note of different,

2:21 I feel bad cuz I like this is this is a question I'm interested

2:24 in, but I also don't want it to seem

2:26 like I'm I'm like throwing you into something.

2:28 Do with those two being different,

2:30 do you think do you think okay, I'll put it this way.

2:33 Do you think Steve Jobs would have made

2:35 uh a 24K golden glass statue for the president?

2:41 Oh.

2:41 Well, there's the other part of like being a CEO of all

2:46 of these tech companies that kind of turns you into a politician.

2:50 You have to be friendly with the current

2:51 administration to continue to rise shareholder value.

2:54 And what does Tim Cook do?

2:55 He continues to rise shareholder value.

2:58 So if that's a gold statue, if that's a nice meeting,

3:00 if that's rubbing shoulders, that's what he's doing.

3:03 Uh would Steve have done that?

3:04 I don't know.

3:05 Maybe, maybe not, but that's Yeah, Tim if that rises the the shareholder value,

3:09 you better believe Tim Cook's in there.

3:11 There's I there's so many times where I look look at things

3:13 and then I criticize them and then my portfolio is like,

3:15 "But you liked it a little bit." And I'm like,

3:17 "No." I was like, "I as a person." I was like,

3:21 "I'm diversified enough to be able to have

3:22 a my own opinion." Uh but no, with with uh okay,

3:26 so as far as though more on the the tech the actual tech side,

3:29 um what are your thoughts as far as you know,

3:32 what's happening with the the Apple Vision Pro?

3:33 I think what they I saw that they they changed the chip recently,

3:36 but I don't know if that's kind of a a dead

3:38 end and we're going more towards the glasses.

3:40 In your opinion, what do you think?

3:41 Yeah, so they refreshed it recently.

3:43 So it went from the M2 chip to the M5 chip

3:45 and they added a new band and that's basically all they did.

3:48 And it's been like almost 2 years since it came out.

3:50 When I saw that, to me it was like,

3:52 "Okay." Anytime I talk about second generation products,

3:55 that is the most interesting version of a new product category because

3:58 the first gen is crazy and it's interesting and it's a new idea.

4:00 The second gen shows you what they learned

4:03 and the direction that it is going to start going.

4:05 And even though this is kind of not really a gen 2,

4:08 it's supposed to show us something and it felt like Apple went,

4:11 "Mhm." Okay, this isn't really doing what we thought it would.

4:15 Uh and it does feel like along with all the other rumors about Apple

4:18 that they are internally starting to work

4:20 on some other things uh like smart glasses,

4:23 for example, that may be headed in a different direction.

4:26 So Vision Pro is a really impressive piece of technology.

4:30 I don't want to like understate that.

4:32 Like the displays are incredible, the tracking is incredible.

4:34 Samsung just came out with their competitor,

4:36 which is cheaper and lighter and more comfortable and is an Android version,

4:40 but it's like it's missing a little bit of the precision of what

4:43 Apple's able to do with Vision Pro and the sensors and the processor.

4:46 So Vision Pro is like really good at what it does, but yeah,

4:50 I think Apple's realized that a $3,500

4:53 headset isn't going to change mankind, you know?

4:59 Well, is that is Yeah, I mean,

5:00 is that is that they've they've kind of Do you feel

5:02 like they ended up aiming at a consumer that does exist,

5:06 but is too small or just will not Like can

5:10 you even get that product down to like what Meta's doing

5:13 as far as like what they've done with their whether it

5:16 be their new display glasses with Ray-Ban or or you know,

5:19 even their Oh my god, Oculus.

5:21 Yeah, yeah.

5:22 So So I did a video on like on specifically this question,

5:25 which is like I see what Meta's doing,

5:26 which is the glasses and they keep adding more and more to the glasses.

5:29 Now there's a display in them and the speakers and the AI and everything.

5:33 That's one approach.

5:34 The other side of that spectrum is the VR headset,

5:37 which is the massive piece of tech,

5:39 which is giving you everything, but you don't wear it outside.

5:42 You don't wear it in public.

5:43 It's too heavy and it's too much.

5:46 Both of them are are working towards each other.

5:49 You're working to make the VR headset

5:50 lighter and lighter and lighter and smaller

5:52 and smaller and transparent and eventually it

5:54 will be like this dream imaginary device.

5:56 You're working to make the glasses better and better and shove more and more

6:00 tech in them until they are able to be this dream imaginary XR device.

6:03 Which is the better approach?

6:05 Well, Apple's doing one version, Meta's doing the other version.

6:07 We don't know who's going to win or which one's better.

6:09 And I think what you're observing is like we are realizing that the Vision

6:13 Pro coming down from the VR headset approach isn't as popular to try.

6:19 It isn't It isn't getting as much traction as they thought.

6:22 And so we we do think the Meta version of just glasses,

6:25 especially cuz the price point's going to be lower,

6:27 it's more socially acceptable in public.

6:29 Like this is the version that people are willing

6:31 to give a shot more than the other one.

6:34 Yeah, I mean, when it when it came to the the Apple headset,

6:36 I think it was very anecdotal and you know,

6:39 I I can't keep using myself as the baseline because you know,

6:42 I'm slowly aging up and out of certain markets,

6:45 but I was like the fact that I didn't feel like I needed to jump

6:49 in and get get it when I would have traditionally I would in my head I was like,

6:53 "Okay, I think that is going to make this potentially a loser." Once again,

6:56 you can't make yourself the the test case all the time.

6:59 Um but that that the thing is like I'm

7:02 rooting for Apple to do something that's more minimal like

7:05 what Meta's doing with Ray-Ban and Oakley because I hate

7:10 that I recently got their glasses, liked most of it.

7:14 I don't like the Meta AI specifically.

7:16 I'd rather that be Well,

7:17 not Siri cuz Siri's in my opinion a bit of a dumpster fire.

7:20 Something that could you know,

7:22 be between between Siri and a chat GPT experience.

7:26 Um if I could get that from Apple,

7:28 give me that every day cuz I'm not going to throw myself

7:31 into a Meta ecosystem outside of how

7:35 how clean it integrates with like Instagram stories.

7:38 Yeah, can I ask you a question?

7:39 Are you Are you more in Are you like in the Apple

7:43 ecosystem and like when Apple comes out with new products,

7:45 it feels like you have to at least like check it out,

7:48 give it a shot just in case it's something you want to add to your life?

7:51 I'll look at it, but I've gotten I've I've years and years ago

7:54 I got out of the cycle of I need to update my phone.

7:57 So I think, right, I up up updated to the new 17 Pro from maybe the 15.

8:03 So I skip a lot of a number of generations now.

8:05 It's getting longer and longer because I feel like a number

8:08 of the things don't it's not enough of a jump for me anymore.

8:13 Totally.

8:14 But But no, I mean, for the most part I'm all

8:17 in on Apple except certain things that make it a little hard.

8:20 I mean, as we were setting up, I don't know what you're on, but I know that I

8:24 I for the most part if I go live stream,

8:26 I'll do that on a PC because of even just little things

8:29 like trying to to navigate which audio feed is going to go through.

8:33 It's so much harder on Mac for some reason.

8:36 Um and so there are little things like

8:37 that, but for the most part it's 90% of my my ecosystem.

8:41 Yeah, I feel like the Vision Pro was kind of like

8:43 a litmus test for how how deep in the Apple ecosystem are you?

8:48 Because you don't 99.9% of people do not need a VR headset.

8:52 But okay, if this new VR headset war

8:55 starts happening and there's a couple options out there

8:57 and you're the guy with the iPhone and the Mac

9:00 and the Apple Watch and the AirPods and everything,

9:03 then the Vision Pro was the obvious choice because of how

9:06 well it worked with those things and for no other reason.

9:10 Like there would be you would get much more out of your money for like I said,

9:14 the half-price Samsung Galaxy XR, for example.

9:17 But you know, the little bit of extra

9:19 precision and the high-fidelity connection to the AirPods

9:22 and and iMessage being right there and connecting

9:24 to your Mac and all these things,

9:25 it's like, "Okay, this If you have a Vision Pro, you're you're really in.

9:29 You're really in that ecosystem." Well,

9:30 let me know if someone had drank the Kool-Aid

9:33 or not was not if they bought the Vision Pro,

9:36 but if they liked the first version of Apple

9:40 remaking your face while you took a FaceTime call.

9:44 I was like, "Don't don't act like this is great." That's the weirdest,

9:47 creepiest thing in the world.

9:49 Unless wait, I'm I'm What what what was your take?

9:51 Cuz I don't I don't remember this.

9:53 Well, it was in it was right in uncanny valley.

9:56 It was like looking at a ghost of someone.

9:58 It wasn't good, but it was better than anything we'd ever seen before.

10:03 It was like kind of realistic, but not good.

10:07 To their credit, it's gotten better.

10:08 And if you've seen the newest versions, they're actually pretty good now.

10:12 But the first one was bad.

10:14 It rubs me wrong.

10:14 Once again, it could just I it could just be I have

10:17 a bias there and I'm leaning into it, but I don't know.

10:19 Uh for for Apple though, is there is there something on the horizon

10:23 or a wish list item that you think uh could

10:26 kind of kick them back up into like where

10:30 where they used to be for a lot of people?

10:32 Uh that's a good question.

10:33 Maybe it's the million-dollar question cuz I

10:34 mean Apple would love to know like what

10:36 the thing is that they could do to jump back in front of, you know,

10:39 the companies competing.

10:40 I you know, the the new laptops are actually really, really good.

10:44 Like if you've been watching the world of laptops, like Apple silicon,

10:47 the MacBook Pros have been kind of untouchable

10:50 for a couple of years, which is crazy.

10:52 And that was very much because of what

10:54 they did with Apple silicon, so that's nice.

10:57 I would like to see them just do more stuff in general.

11:01 Like when I think about Apple's ecosystem of products,

11:04 they make AirPods Max, which is $550 metal over-ear ANC headphones.

11:11 And they refreshed it recently and literally just

11:12 added a USB type-C port and new colors.

11:14 I was like, "What?

11:15 Why don't Why don't you make a $250 pair of headphones?

11:18 Why don't you make a 700 I want I want

11:20 the audiophile grade pair of headphones that I just sit

11:22 in a room and listen to them and they're amazing."

11:24 Like I don't I want them to try other stuff.

11:26 A printer?

11:27 They're not going to make a printer.

11:28 A camera?

11:29 I want Apple to make The iPhone cameras are so good.

11:32 They they'd probably be amazing at making a standalone mirrorless camera.

11:35 Uh but they're not going to do that either.

11:36 So I I just wish they would do more stuff.

11:39 It it boggles my mind that they are

11:42 that company and Siri is at the level that it

11:46 is and where where it's been it like

11:48 and the fact they're getting lapped in that place.

11:50 Um and that I you know, I'm like, "Oh,

11:52 I'm so glad that there is a quick action button on the phone so I can bypass

11:56 Siri and go straight to a chat GPT

11:59 audio interaction." But I will say to your point,

12:02 uh they are killing a number of things.

12:04 I mean, I'm using their headphones literally right now.

12:07 Um I'm my secondary and it's what I use

12:10 to export things to your point is an Apple

12:13 M4 Max MacBook Pro destroys everything else that I

12:18 had in my office as far as like quick turnaround.

12:21 Um yeah, and so it's I don't know.

12:23 I I just can't kind of wonder what's going to happen there.

12:26 But I guess connected to to Siri and then

12:29 chat GPT and moving forward in that space,

12:31 where uh what are your thoughts on where we are

12:35 with AI right now as far as let's say day-to-day interactions

12:41 for for everyday people and you as kind of someone that's

12:45 in the space and putting out a lot of content and maybe yeah,

12:48 from more of a business perspective.

12:50 So I I've personally been like dipping my toe in the pool

12:54 and using these tools a little bit here and there.

12:57 A little bit more now than like maybe last year.

13:00 Um I think the average person is just getting like

13:05 exposed to it wait like waterboarded with AI content basically.

13:07 Like it's everywhere now.

13:09 It's on your Instagram feeds.

13:10 There's the Sora app.

13:11 Like you can't really avoid it now.

13:12 But as far as tools like that I use specifically,

13:15 like I use some of the chatbots.

13:17 I I have actually used I'm on this browser.

13:21 Well, I couldn't use it for Riverside,

13:23 but I use the chat GPT Atlas browser and D because

13:27 Because they're they're interesting.

13:28 They let me like converse with the internet and it there's

13:33 this new skill of like knowing how to prompt them well.

13:36 Kind of like you used to have to know how to Google things.

13:38 You kind of have to know how to prompt these things well.

13:40 So I'm using that a little bit more.

13:42 And it's interesting like seeing people grow up who are a little

13:45 younger than us that will not know a world without these AI tools.

13:49 And it's just kind of have you have to know how

13:51 to use them well and it's just a part of your daily now.

13:54 So I think it's fascinating.

13:55 Yeah, I mean from the creator's perspective,

13:57 it feels like there's been like this massive divide.

13:59 I you know, I've seen a number of tech forward creators.

14:03 They kind of jumped into Sora the Sora app and I was like,

14:05 "I don't like this at all." And it felt It felt I don't know.

14:11 I know a number of them, so I'm not I'm not trying to burn anybody,

14:14 but it really rubbed me the wrong way.

14:16 Um and I don't know.

14:19 I don't know if it's just because I'm more

14:20 worried about it from a jobs or creator's perspective.

14:24 Like the the market's going to have to figure itself out or if

14:27 it's more from um I'm just because I'm doing news to covering news,

14:33 I'm just I think that the misinformation problem's going to get way out of hand.

14:37 And it's so easy to remove the the Sora

14:40 watermark and stuff like that, but I don't know.

14:42 On top of that, there's also the the likeness problem.

14:44 Like there's so many unprecedented uh

14:47 things happening because of these advancements.

14:50 Like if you There's there's the moment where you

14:53 open the app for the first time and it's like,

14:54 "Do you want to scan your face and like let people use it?" And I'm like,

14:57 "This is a major decision that I'm making right now.

15:00 If I just give them unlimited free use of my likeness forever No,

15:05 actually no, that's a terrible idea.

15:06 I'm going to I'm going to hit no." I think that's a terrible

15:09 and some people lean in and they're like, "Yeah, use my face.

15:12 This is more better for my exposure as a human and and my uh you know,

15:18 I'm a I'm a creator.

15:19 I want my face to be out there more.

15:20 I'm going to I'm going to give people the ability

15:21 to use my face." And that's a decision you can make too.

15:24 But they're kind of unprecedented in like how far this stuff goes so quickly.

15:29 So if I I chose no.

15:31 I don't know if you got to that point and had to like scan your face.

15:34 I didn't even I I didn't even download it, but I was going to ask you.

15:36 I mean, so right there's a big conversation around the the ethics of it.

15:40 And so in the past year,

15:41 there have been two companies that that came around and uh they offered me

15:46 a fee to go through my archive and use it to train their AI.

15:51 I said no, um even though it was a sizable amount of money.

15:54 Um which maybe in the long term I'll look back and be like,

15:57 "Well, everyone was just stealing[ __] anyways." And I know that you know,

16:01 you've been you've popped up in the news

16:02 of people just using your content to train AI.

16:05 Um have you also had any companies come up

16:07 and offer to pay or is everyone just ripping MKBHD?

16:11 That's a great point.

16:12 Uh no one's offered to pay and I

16:13 maybe that's respectable that they did because yeah,

16:15 they a lot of a lot of them just kind of rip.

16:18 And and I I upload to YouTube.

16:20 Like there's thousands of hours of my face in high

16:22 definition on the internet already and nothing really stopping them.

16:26 YouTube's terms of service is kind of like a slap on the wrist.

16:29 So yeah, they kind of just steal it.

16:31 Well, yeah, actually so on the note of YouTube, I mean,

16:34 I think we're going to do a same-day turnaround on this.

16:36 Yesterday, they publicly announced that they're using

16:39 their AI to HD our old content.

16:42 And they're giving creators an opt-out.

16:45 I haven't even I mean, I haven't even talked to my team about it or anything.

16:47 I mean, do you think that's kind of minimal,

16:50 doesn't matter or are you going to are you going to opt out?

16:53 So it's I found that really interesting and I

16:55 think it depends on what your old videos are.

16:58 Cuz I think that the limit the barrier is like 480p, right?

17:01 Or something like that.

17:02 So anything or anything under 720p is is a candidate to get upscaled.

17:07 For me personally, almost none of my videos are under 720p.

17:11 So I don't It's okay.

17:13 It's okay for me.

17:14 Of course.

17:15 Let's say you're a creator with lots of older vlogs and it's

17:18 your face and it's a younger version of you and it's it's it's

17:21 a little bit different when you're you're asking AI to touch

17:23 that and and potentially upscale it really

17:26 well or really poorly, you don't know yet.

17:28 Um but maybe some of those are precious videos

17:31 that you you want them to stay the way they are,

17:33 the way you remember them instead

17:34 of suddenly being like creepily high definition.

17:37 So I think we'll just see.

17:39 Again, unprecedented.

17:40 We will see what YouTube starts doing

17:42 to those videos and then form more opinions.

17:44 But as of right now, I'm not too worried about my old catalog.

17:48 This is where my username came from.

17:49 Yeah.

17:50 It's HD.

17:50 Yeah.

17:51 Yeah, I that's so funny.

17:52 I No, I saw some screenshots this morning

17:56 of SNES gameplay getting the HD treatment.

17:59 I was like, "Oh, that looks that looks a little weird." Um but kind of one

18:04 of the last questions I'll I'll ask with AI

18:06 outside of maybe someone is invested in Nvidia,

18:10 which I think just hit became a $5 company

18:13 and and that making a an impact on someone's life.

18:17 Mhm.

18:17 Do you Where do you Do you think that AI

18:19 is going to be an eventual improvement for most

18:22 people or are you more scared about the kind

18:25 of the worst-case scenarios with job loss and all that?

18:29 I I think you kind of have to see both sides of it.

18:31 I I do think it's a new frontier.

18:34 And in the same way that, you know, us and our parents and everyone, you know,

18:39 who didn't have the internet grew up and the internet happened and we all

18:42 had to learn to live with all the upsides and downsides of the internet.

18:46 I think AI is kind of doing the same thing.

18:48 The internet comes around, there were a lot of jobs lost, but also a lot gained.

18:52 And that's always a concern.

18:54 And I think with AI like, okay, figuring out how to use these tools well.

18:57 Like for me as a creator, I'm not firing anybody,

19:00 but I am gaining productivity, so that's nice.

19:03 Uh I think yeah, you kind of have to just take a few steps back,

19:06 understand that there's no stop You can't

19:08 really put the toothpaste back in the tube.

19:10 Like this AI thing is happening, so we kind of have to try to use it as best

19:13 we can and mitigate its downsides as best we can in the process.

19:18 It's kind of a no It's kind of a non-answer,

19:20 but it's it's just happening to us, you know?

19:23 No No, but okay, so like but connected to that, I mean,

19:26 and we have to look at it in different avenues.

19:28 Do you think that innovation is slowing down in certain places?

19:34 And it may maybe it's more cuz like it feels like with AI,

19:37 there's a a new big thing every day.

19:39 But maybe on hardware, there has been a a massive slowdown.

19:42 I don't know.

19:43 I What do What do you What are your thoughts there?

19:44 Certain Yeah, certain hardwares.

19:45 The way I see it is like every category has

19:48 the same I don't know if this is mirrored for you,

19:50 but it has like the same curve where

19:52 it's really really steep at the beginning and then

19:54 flattens out and hits an asymptote at some

19:56 point and does like minor improvements every year.

19:58 And it's really exciting when new technologies are

20:01 on that sharp increase for the first few years.

20:04 You remember when the iPhone came out in 2007?

20:07 And then the next iPhone and then the next iPhone and the iPhone

20:09 4 and the 4S and we were getting these crazy big

20:12 improvements and they added cameras and they they they doubled in processing

20:15 power and Siri became a thing for the first time like huge improvements.

20:19 Now, what's the difference between the 16 and the 17?

20:22 Like Right.

20:24 Okay, a little bump up, a little more storage, right?

20:26 So, we we did that curve with the with the iPhone and with smartphones.

20:30 And now we get to see this curve again

20:32 with VR and AR and with AI and with electric cars.

20:35 Like that it keeps happening with all these new technologies.

20:38 So, in hardware it kind of feels boring because we we mostly look

20:42 at smartphones and they kind of have

20:43 flatlined and they do everything and that's okay.

20:46 But I think when we look around at all the other exciting curves that we're

20:49 at the beginning of, it's still a pretty exciting time to be in tech.

20:52 When you're talking about VR, is the idea in your head of like what was

20:56 kind of pushed as what the the metaverse would be?

20:58 Is that done and dead and it's kind of just

21:02 it's going to be like a under $500 video game thing?

21:05 Is is that where you think it's at?

21:07 The metaverse Yeah, it's well, it's so hard to define the metaverse.

21:10 Like I guess if you asked, you know,

21:12 a when Meta was renaming their company a few years ago, what is the metaverse?

21:16 They would have probably given sort of a weird virtual space type of answer.

21:21 And now I think if you ask Meta or Zuck about the metaverse,

21:26 it's more just like XR.

21:27 Like put these glasses on, it's going to augment your reality.

21:29 That's the metaverse now.

21:31 I don't know if there's a definition of the metaverse,

21:33 but Well, it's that sounds like they just changed the definition.

21:35 Cuz my understanding was that it was like, hey,

21:37 imagine like everything that's crossed each other in Fortnite,

21:42 but it was a lived experience and everything interacted with everything.

21:46 That was my understanding of what they said it was going to be.

21:49 Mhm.

21:50 Or like yeah, like a super expanded VR version like what Roblox does and that's

21:56 that's a kind of a dumbed-down version

21:58 of just everyone create can create every single thing.

22:01 And now it's like One.

22:03 Yeah, exactly.

22:04 And now it's like you're going to say metaverse is I can

22:07 see the music in the bottom right hand of my[ __] glasses.

22:11 That's the metaverse now?

22:13 Yeah.

22:13 Yeah, it's it's definitely changed and I you know,

22:15 maybe this vision of the future is like

22:18 you've got these glasses on that are super super, you know, impressive.

22:22 They have like sensors everywhere and they

22:23 can overlay things over your real world.

22:25 So, it's not just in the corner,

22:26 but it's like I look up at a billboard and that billboard is

22:30 giving me an ad that's tailored to just me that only I can see.

22:33 If I take the glasses off, it's just a blank screen.

22:35 Like it's it's that type of future vision of a metaverse, maybe.

22:40 Um but yeah, I still think it's impossible to define.

22:44 Probably on purpose.

22:45 Probably on purpose.

22:46 [Laughter] That's great.

22:48 Probably on purpose.

22:49 No, what's uh Okay, so it's separate from the from the metaverse,

22:53 but more of the internet.

22:54 What is What is your relationship with with social media at this point?

22:58 You know, you've been creating content for so so so long.

23:03 Do you just kind of see it as an output device or, you know,

23:07 are you consuming you think like everyone else or you

23:11 do you have like you have to keep it separate?

23:14 Uh that's a good question.

23:16 I I mostly use it the way I always have.

23:20 I'm not as super on all the time like I once was.

23:24 Like I used to read every single tweet

23:27 and every reply and now I can't possibly do that.

23:31 Um but yeah, there is an element to me of like being able to to keep

23:35 a finger on the pulse and stay plugged

23:36 in and understand what audiences are talking about,

23:38 what they like and what they don't like.

23:40 And also now because of how politicized and how different each one of them is,

23:45 trying to understand the context of like

23:47 how different pieces hit different different ways.

23:50 Like I just did a video yesterday,

23:51 which was about something that was really hot on Twitter.

23:55 It was this Neo humanoid robot.

23:58 And if you if you just lived on Twitter, this was like the biggest deal.

24:02 It has like 50 million views on Twitter.

24:03 Everyone's memeing about it.

24:04 Everyone's talking about it.

24:05 Everyone's giving their takes about it.

24:07 I'm reading these.

24:08 I'm like, oh my god, I have such a I have a take.

24:11 I need to talk about this.

24:12 I made this video.

24:13 And then this video hits YouTube totally different than it hits Twitter.

24:17 This video hits Threads and Blue Sky and Instagram in totally different ways.

24:22 Instagram is almost like the the more innocent mainstream

24:26 group of your friends version of how it hits, where people are like, wait, what?

24:30 This is This is real?

24:31 This is a robot that you can buy?

24:34 Meanwhile, Twitter's like, yeah, I invested.

24:36 I bought six of them.

24:36 Like this is the greatest thing I've ever seen.

24:38 So, you kind of have to speak the language and understand,

24:42 you know, how social media hits in different places.

24:44 But I feel like that's what I do and I keep a finger on the pulse there.

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25:53 [Music] I'm going to go back

25:57 to that, but with specifically with Neo, what was your take?

25:59 Cuz my I had only seen I think we might be talking about it today.

26:02 I'd only seen surface level where it was like a $20,000 or a $500 a month robot,

26:08 but it might not actually be autonomous.

26:10 It might be Is it operated by someone else?

26:13 Yeah, I can give you this.

26:15 Cuz there's two sides to this.

26:16 I'll give you This is how it hit me.

26:17 This is the pitch versus the reality.

26:19 Okay.

26:19 So, the pitch is there's a 5'6" humanoid robot that lives in your house.

26:24 And when you leave in the morning,

26:26 it unplugs itself and gets off the dock and walks around and does your chores.

26:30 It does the laundry, it does the dishes, it vacuums, it puts stuff away,

26:34 it finds the remote between the cushions,

26:36 it puts your keys back where they belong.

26:37 Like it it it does everything.

26:39 It's a nice little helper and no matter how slow it does it,

26:42 it's in the background.

26:42 You're at work.

26:43 It's doing all of this for you.

26:45 Immense value, right?

26:47 The reality is that requires an incredibly complex neural net and a model

26:54 of your house and knowing all

26:55 these household objects and that doesn't exist yet.

26:59 So, there is also the ability for a teleoperator to come

27:03 in and work through the robot to do these tasks for you.

27:07 Which represents obviously a totally different privacy situation,

27:11 a totally different comfort level for a lot of people.

27:14 And oh, by the way, you can give us your money

27:17 today and pre-order it and we'll ship the version with the teleoperator

27:21 now in hopes that maybe someday we'll get to the version

27:24 that's super advanced that can do it all on its own.

27:27 So, if you're a tech bro, if you're really in the thick of this, if

27:31 you're on Twitter thinking this is amazing,

27:34 then you are you're actually willing to let that teleoperator do

27:38 the task and and hopefully contribute kind of as a beta tester.

27:43 But if you're a little bit more unplugged, a little bit more of a normal person,

27:47 you might say, this is an almost unfathomable

27:51 product that should never be in your house.

27:53 And what if it falls?

28:02 And what if it lands on my So, you know,

28:05 you'll probably land somewhere on the spectrum between yes,

28:07 I'll have six and I will never buy one.

28:10 But those are the two sides.

28:11 What was the Okay, so then what was was the reaction on Twitter/X?

28:16 Um I disagree or is it aggressive and like saying

28:20 that you were going at Like what what was the take?

28:23 Well, I have a bit of a reputation for being

28:25 a standing up for the consumer when products are not very good.

28:29 No, you have No, you have a people know you as the man

28:33 who tried to kill Rabbit cuz you're an evil evil monster man, right?

28:37 That's what it was.

28:37 Yeah.

28:37 Yeah, yeah.

28:38 Yeah.

28:39 No, there I think I tried to be as fair as possible

28:41 and really highlight that it's not just this product that has a problem,

28:45 but it's all of these AI products

28:47 that are shipping and selling two different things.

28:50 They're selling the dream,

28:52 but they're shipping a not finished product hoping to someday get to the dream.

28:57 That's the real thesis that I put in my video.

29:00 I think this hit Twitter as a very negative video

29:03 because I am not a believer or something like that.

29:07 But I think there are a lot of other

29:08 people who who see that they're selling a dream.

29:11 You're You're not buying a product that's good.

29:14 And I think that's usually where my mind goes when I'm reviewing products is

29:17 is it good now or is it going to hopefully maybe someday be good?

29:21 And if my golden rule is that you don't

29:23 buy a product based on what it is someday, you buy it based on what it is today,

29:29 then I'm going to be pretty

29:29 consistently feeling negative about these AI-based products.

29:34 And And this robot's no exception, but maybe I'll be proved wrong someday.

29:39 I uh well, I was going to ask.

29:40 It It sounds like the answer's going to be no,

29:42 but given kind of the the state of things of how people can be so reactive.

29:48 Has Has there ever been a product that you were like, you know what?

29:51 I'm not even going to talk about that right

29:53 now because it's just going to be a mess.

29:57 Yeah, that happens all the time.

29:58 And I think this robot I think this robot was kind of on the edge of that.

30:03 The Humane Pin was also kind of on the edge of that.

30:05 I was not the first to cover it.

30:07 It was kind of on my radar.

30:08 It sat on my desk for a week and I finally took it out the box

30:11 and started using it when I was on this trip just cuz I was like,

30:14 oh, maybe this will be worth a video, maybe not, who knows.

30:17 Um most products are not that interesting.

30:22 It's only the ones that are really, really good or really,

30:27 really bad that are interesting, if that makes sense.

30:32 Um so so a lot of a lot of things are just kind of mid and they're

30:35 like a seven out of 10 and they're fine

30:37 and you buy them and they work and great, who, you know, what do you do?

30:40 Uh but as someone who's interested in fascinating

30:44 products and finds 10s out of 10s

30:47 and finds twos out of 10s that some people think are 10s out of 10s,

30:49 like that's where the interesting stuff is and that's where the stories are,

30:52 so that is why it became a video.

30:55 Okay, so actually, no, with that, has Has politics ever impacted your work?

31:00 And this I'll go kind of a range here.

31:03 It can go from the range of like super political, China rare earth metals,

31:08 there's like are companies going to be able to to build

31:11 the products and somehow that impacts your work to Um I mean,

31:15 we I I have a bad sense of time.

31:17 I think it was one or two years ago we had

31:18 we had to have Mark Rober on to give a response because

31:21 he like became embroiled in a Tesla lidar situation where people were

31:28 like accusing him of being a bad actor and he was like,

31:30 I love Tesla, this is just what happened.

31:33 Um has anything like that ever happened outside

31:35 of the Humane Pin and I guess now maybe Neo.

31:38 Not Not really.

31:40 I think there's a couple things Well, I guess it has happened,

31:43 but my coverage never focuses on a couple of things.

31:47 One is I don't own any stock in any company that I ever cover, never have,

31:53 and I therefore do not care about the stock price of the companies I cover.

31:57 A lot of people do care about the stock price,

31:59 so sometimes it feels weird to people.

32:01 And then two is yeah,

32:02 the the politics of like sustainability or how the product gets made,

32:11 sometimes that is like a It's usually not very interesting,

32:15 but sometimes it's such a glaring thing that you you kind of have to loop it in.

32:19 And sometimes it's positive and negative, too.

32:21 So, I'm kind of rambling,

32:21 but like sometimes there's a product that's like made so well

32:24 and has such a great recyclable materials and everything and it's like,

32:28 damn, I have to I got to mention

32:29 this, this is actually a really highlight of this product.

32:31 And sometimes it's like yeah,

32:33 this this chat GPT prompt is just not energy efficient at all.

32:37 And like if I'm generating tons of these videos with Sora,

32:40 I am just contributing to a really unhealthy

32:44 behavior that humanity has started to spin up here.

32:46 And you kind of have to loop that in, too.

32:48 Typically Typically it doesn't make it into my coverage

32:50 unless it's a highlight or lowlight of the product.

32:53 Has there been a product that has kind of like surprised

32:56 you and it has become a big part of your life,

32:58 these things that you're like it wasn't on people's radar,

33:00 but it's actually a a 10 out of 10?

33:03 It's been a while since a product really surprised me like that.

33:05 Like I think a lot of these sort of Actually,

33:08 these AI browsers I think is the latest thing that I didn't think I would

33:11 be that interested in and now I'm I'm

33:13 the guy that switches browsers every two days,

33:15 which is like, what am I doing?

33:18 Why am I doing this?

33:19 But I do find that they're they're really interesting and useful to me,

33:22 so that that might have been the last thing that surprised me.

33:25 But yeah, I feel like I get a pretty

33:27 good pulse on on most products pretty quickly.

33:30 Yeah, I I don't know I'm interested in your thoughts.

33:32 I I have like this love-hate relationship with how helpful I mean,

33:36 I I haven't switched to Atlas, but I I will use chat GPT a lot,

33:40 almost the same to the degree that it is a search engine where you know,

33:45 you said, and I agree, like there used to be a time where you really needed

33:48 to know how to Google something to get the right thing.

33:51 And I almost wonder if by it being so

33:55 convenient of me when I talk and I'm thinking, I'm very rambly, right?

33:59 It's just like I almost want to just like blurt it out.

34:02 I don't know if it's making me then

34:04 dumber because I'm not having to organize my thoughts

34:07 and I'm offloading the organization to this thing

34:10 that is designed to do that to a certain degree.

34:13 And do you have any concerns there or this is just this is

34:15 this is where we are now and what it's going to be?

34:18 No, I think I've thought about that.

34:20 I think it feels like we're just kind of setting a new

34:22 baseline for like how good you can be at organizing information.

34:27 Like when I was a kid, I guess I've lived through three eras of this.

34:30 Like when I was a kid going to the library and the the the atlas

34:33 and the all the almanacs are sitting

34:35 there and I had to organize some information.

34:39 That was one version of like a skill to do that.

34:42 Then there's the internet era where it's like,

34:44 okay, I I'm going to make a purchase decision.

34:47 I'm I'm really interested in these two cars

34:50 and I want to compare them to each other.

34:52 I do a lot of Googling and a lot of like pulling up different tabs

34:55 and switching back and forth and reading

34:56 the specs of each and like comparing them myself.

34:59 And now this new era is like I think people are are underestimating

35:03 how complex they can make their prompts and actually get a successful response.

35:06 Like I'm just asking it to make charts

35:08 for me of all the things that I'm considering.

35:11 And oh, you know what,

35:12 give me an extra focus on this and it redoes the chart and I'm looking

35:15 at the sources and I'm There's another new skill

35:18 there of like having it organize things for you,

35:21 fact-checking it yourself cuz you still need that.

35:24 You still need the fact-checking yourself.

35:25 But yeah, I think people might be surprised at just how

35:28 complex you can make your prompts and it actually helps you.

35:33 Yeah.

35:34 On the On the note of different eras,

35:36 where I want to start and we'll get to right now,

35:39 when you were I think you were what, 15 when you started, right?

35:42 Is that Is that accurate?

35:43 Yeah, that's right.

35:44 Yeah.

35:45 When When you were making it then,

35:46 was it Was it because you just wanted to to get out there,

35:50 to connect to that community or was

35:52 there anything maybe more forward-thinking than that?

35:57 No, that was it.

35:57 There was a little community at the time and I I just was like,

36:01 I got this laptop and I was in I

36:04 was watching all these other videos of kids, honestly, too,

36:08 who had also gotten laptops and started making

36:10 these videos about them and so it felt totally natural for me to like turn

36:14 on the webcam and make a video and and upload

36:16 it to YouTube and I'd already been commenting

36:19 on other videos and like so they would

36:20 jump in and see my video and comment and it was like this nice little you know,

36:24 five or six creator community that it was born

36:27 out of, so that's kind of all it was.

36:29 Yeah.

36:30 And so, okay, so then it's it's growing, it's growing.

36:33 At what point do you realize, okay, I need to to bring people on?

36:37 What's the What's the the the the number of years there?

36:40 Oh, it's way later.

36:41 Uh the first person that I added to the team was after I graduated from college,

36:45 so this would be like uh 2009, so this is like year seven, I think.

36:51 Okay.

36:51 So, seven years in, so you're around 22 then, right?

36:55 Um okay, and what What is the the thinking there?

37:00 I want to make more, life's too busy.

37:02 Are you doing ultimate at this point?

37:05 Yeah, I've been doing ultimate since the beginning.

37:07 Uh the first person So, really it was I've been doing 100% of the stuff

37:12 and you kind of feel like an octopus.

37:13 I don't know if you've heard my octopus analogy that told many times,

37:15 but uh I needed someone to hold the camera to point it at me.

37:19 That was like the main thing.

37:20 Like I can't do the selfie video thing,

37:22 like I I need someone to just have a tripod and just

37:25 get the shots of me cuz those are useful for the videos.

37:28 So, that was number one.

37:29 I was I need help with that.

37:31 And And then it kind of yeah,

37:33 every every person basically since is has been added to do something that was

37:39 previously either done by me or done by one of the small core.

37:43 And it has taken a load off and made it sort

37:45 of this evenly operating machine where everyone

37:48 has a interlocking task with everyone else.

37:51 So, okay, so the team's getting built up.

37:54 At what point and what's the thinking behind I'm going

37:57 to all of a sudden make a channel that is around vehicles?

38:00 Uh is it because there is like you want to go back

38:04 to something that was it's just an interest and you want to do it?

38:07 Is it part of the, you know,

38:09 I have a company and now I'm thinking about strategy?

38:11 What's the What's the thinking there?

38:13 So, I've always been into interesting vehicles,

38:15 but it was it was actually a little bit of what you're saying,

38:18 but also an audience expectation decision.

38:21 I had started making an occasional car video on the main channel.

38:26 And I had the Autofocus playlist.

38:28 And I have all of these thoughts on cars and I'm like,

38:32 there's no place to put these in the main channel videos and I I don't know,

38:35 I I kind of feel like I just want to keep talking about cars,

38:38 so it felt like a natural second channel place

38:41 where that audience expectation is just the car thoughts.

38:45 And that's what it was born out of.

38:47 So, we started doing the videos of the cars I had and then

38:49 we started testing other cars and that's how it grows from there.

38:51 But it was just kind of like I like these I've

38:53 liked cars forever and I've liked making videos about cars,

38:56 but this is not an audience that expects to watch videos about cars.

39:01 On the note of audiences, that I'm interested cuz I'm I I this is I don't know.

39:05 Having done this for like two decades, I'm very interested in different niches.

39:09 How do How does the tech and vehicle audiences How do they compare?

39:15 Okay.

39:15 Well, cuz I watch a lot of YouTube.

39:17 So, I I can get in the rabbit hole

39:20 of the like mini cinematic universe that is just tech YouTube.

39:26 And also the version that is just car YouTube.

39:29 And they're very different.

39:30 Now that you mention it, yeah, there is uh you know,

39:33 there there are different types of car videos.

39:35 There are people who are reviewing the actual vehicle,

39:38 like people who actually are lucky enough like me to get

39:40 to test a car and give our thoughts on it.

39:42 There are also commentary channels about said

39:45 products that that exist in tech, too.

39:47 There's the phone review and then there's

39:48 the people who talk about the phone review.

39:52 Um and then there are the like almost

39:55 unreasonable fandoms of individual companies inside of these universes.

40:01 I guess that they have a lot in common now that I'm thinking about it.

40:04 There's There's the you know the the BMW fan

40:08 who who can't see BMW ever doing anything wrong.

40:11 And then there's the Apple fan who can't see Apple ever doing anything wrong.

40:15 And then there are the people who defend that company

40:18 or who are like adversarial against the other companies.

40:20 That This is They They have a lot of parallels

40:22 now that you're you're jogging this through my head.

40:25 Yeah, I mean does any of it I don't know this is

40:27 maybe a curveball cuz I'm I'm not super involved in either space.

40:30 Does any of it end up getting fueled because of like

40:33 the the rivalries you see in F1 or no that's

40:35 just like a thing that's connected and I don't know how

40:38 involved you are as a a fan of F1 there, too.

40:42 So, I don't know.

40:43 A little bit.

40:43 Yeah, there I think that's naturally like

40:45 and those are all like the super high-end manufacturers.

40:47 So, there's like the McLaren fan versus the Ferrari fan or whatever.

40:50 Like that's a little bit of it and when the when

40:52 the team is successful then you feel a little more proud or whatever.

40:55 Yeah, I think that's that's a little bit of a part of it, too.

40:57 But there's like these companies have so much history, too.

40:59 The car company histories go way way back.

41:03 So, there's like legacy things people bring up from like

41:07 the '50s that are supposed to mean something today.

41:09 Oh, this new Ferrari.

41:10 Oh, that's harkening back to the 1958 GT I'm like oh,

41:15 I know nothing about that, but cool.

41:17 I'm more I'm more interested in what it does today,

41:19 but that that stuff exists, too.

41:20 Yeah, I I always just kind of wonder where

41:23 certain things stem from because yeah, I I don't know.

41:25 My dad's a big car guy.

41:26 I've I've surrounded by car guys and I've

41:28 never gotten into it and they can tell you

41:29 everything about everything and so I imagine there's

41:31 that, but then also because we kind of just live

41:35 in a a gambling society whether it be the stock

41:38 market and so all of a sudden you have

41:39 like people that care about things even more and they

41:42 kind of can take things as a more direct hit.

41:44 It seems like everything's I don't know.

41:46 I I I feel I I love that you kind of seem to not care,

41:51 but also are thoughtful of that there is this world that that is out there.

41:57 I don't know.

41:57 I don't know how you navigate it.

41:58 I I I think every company should be able to make a good product.

42:02 I think that's maybe I think that's maybe an unpopular opinion.

42:06 I don't think people think about that a lot.

42:07 I think people think that the good companies make

42:09 the good products and the bad companies make the bad products.

42:12 But I think that if you if you kind of just take a product for what

42:16 it is and you can strip the brand name off of it and objectively evaluate it,

42:21 that's a that's a skill.

42:23 Like that that's a thing that people usually aren't doing in their heads.

42:26 So, if you are fan of BMW and BMW puts out a bad car,

42:31 you might kind of do some mental gymnastics to justify

42:34 why it's good while there are other better cars out there.

42:37 That happens in tech all the time.

42:38 That happens in products.

42:39 People make these very personal buying decisions and then they feel

42:43 the need to defend them even if it's not technically the best thing.

42:48 So, I I just find that interesting.

42:49 Yeah, I There's a lot of good products out there

42:51 that people don't realize are as good as they are.

42:54 No, I mean I don't know.

42:55 I was like the the closest I could get to that space

42:57 is I was very hyped up for the VW Oh my god, they call it the Buzz now, I think.

43:03 I saw and I'm thankful that the the review community that was out there

43:07 and they were like here's the thing I want to love it, but Yeah.

43:12 And I was like thank you.

43:12 Thank you, YouTube.

43:14 No, okay, so that's a that's another good one cuz nostalgia is such a powerful

43:18 force and I think a lot of companies try as hard

43:22 as they can to plug into nostalgia because that makes people

43:26 look more fondly upon things when they like the old version.

43:29 And that could be tough sometimes.

43:31 I wonder yeah, then I wonder how much that plays into when

43:33 there was that whole Jaguar scandal around those like the new bodies.

43:37 Once again, this is like an area that I'm not super well versed in.

43:40 It's just like I like I'm like oh, that's happening over there.

43:43 Why is everyone freaking out?

43:45 Who's comment the press Okay.

43:47 Uh no, okay.

43:48 So, you launched this channel but then where you are right now,

43:53 I've really enjoyed going through and I don't know if well,

43:56 I'm not alone in it as far as the the views,

43:58 but I really enjoyed content from the studio.

44:00 Well, I really loved hearing from your team and the editors.

44:03 What's the thought process in creating that channel?

44:06 Yeah, it's So, the main channel is is it's the tech videos.

44:10 It's my thoughts and my opinions.

44:12 And I've seen so many other channels try

44:16 to like add multiple heads or multiple hosts or whatever

44:19 and I've I've literally never once in my life seen

44:22 that go as well as I was hoping it would.

44:24 But I also kind of want to shed the curtain

44:26 or shed light on or pull back the curtain to show

44:29 the behind the scenes process of some of this stuff cuz

44:32 people might not understand what's going on or appreciate what's going on.

44:35 And we're really proud of the stuff we're making.

44:36 So, um I felt like this was a good opportunity

44:39 to just have a place to put all of that.

44:42 And so it started just basically as like this is behind the scenes.

44:46 And it's obviously developed its own voice and become its own thing,

44:49 but if if the MKBHD channel is what you come to expect there,

44:53 then the studio channel is a different expectation.

44:56 It is what we are it's the process.

44:59 It's the place.

45:00 It's the people.

45:00 It's It's way more diverse opinions and thoughts

45:03 and and content just in that different way.

45:06 And for you is it kind of this where you are making that content or is it

45:11 and and like it's it's there for the community

45:13 and the creators or like is it is it self-sufficient?

45:16 Is it something that it's cuz I know

45:18 that I've launched certain things and then I'm like okay,

45:21 that that accomplishes a thing,

45:23 but it does not maybe make monetary sense or is it Um

45:29 I I I honestly have a hard time thinking of things that way.

45:32 I couldn't tell you.

45:33 I don't know if it's if I if I asked

45:36 my mom who runs the finances if the studio is self-sufficient,

45:39 she could give me an answer.

45:41 I don't think it's if it's negative, it's not super negative.

45:45 If it's positive, it's not super positive,

45:46 but it is something that I want to exist.

45:48 So, I will keep making it exist.

45:50 Okay, wait.

45:51 So, how many Yeah, what Okay, then the the structure.

45:54 How many people do you have?

45:56 And so your mom runs the the finance.

45:57 So, is she like a C-level at the company or how does that work?

46:01 I guess technically Yeah,

46:02 so so the the whole company I believe is 17, I think, people.

46:08 Um my mom was always in in finance and so she naturally

46:13 became the one to run and I'm so lucky for this, but she

46:16 runs all of the finance and the accounting and the and all

46:19 of the taxes and everything that goes with that, the bookkeeping.

46:22 Shout out to Momager.

46:25 And then yeah, basically I don't know if there's levels

46:27 to this, but it's kind of like a wheel with a bunch of spokes.

46:29 Like there's the MKBHD channel and everyone who helps produce videos there.

46:33 There's the podcast and everyone who helps produce the podcast,

46:36 the studio channel and everyone who

46:38 helps produce that and the AutoFocus channel.

46:41 Um but there's also a ton of interweaving of different uh people who are good

46:48 at different parts and and will actually

46:50 work on different channels just based on that.

46:51 So, most people aren't very siloed.

46:54 Uh it's just kind of a group of people in a studio making stuff.

46:58 So, okay.

46:58 So, you have Momager on finances.

47:01 Is there someone that's thinking of the flywheel between all these channels?

47:05 Like is there or is that you?

47:08 That is me and one producer.

47:10 So, most recent person added is producer who I think that's like a it's like

47:15 a really good skill and that was a part of my brain that I was You know,

47:19 I kind of had to reduce myself to like a couple core roles.

47:24 If this octopus cut all of its its arms off

47:26 or whatever and it just has a couple core things left,

47:29 for me that is I am the voice of the of the reviews and it's my thoughts

47:32 and my my reviews and the content strategy

47:36 across like what we decide to make basically.

47:39 Um and so because we have a network of channels and a bunch

47:42 of overlapping like time boxes and if you could see our calendars,

47:46 you'd be like oh yeah,

47:47 you you need a producer to like organize this and and book,

47:49 you know, the flights and hotels, make sure everything works.

47:52 That is her job.

47:53 And I mean where I I mean I hate

47:55 this question as as someone that sometimes receives it,

47:57 but I also have to ask it.

47:59 Where does where do you want this to go from here?

48:03 Like cuz obviously you're in this great spot

48:05 and I don't want to discount that, but it's

48:07 always like kind of like is there is there a vision of like slow expansion?

48:14 Are you of the mindset like kind of a lot

48:17 of people I've seen in different spaces where it's like

48:20 you have this and then it's a vehicle to push

48:23 to some sort of service or bigger product or thing?

48:29 What is or or you know, is it kind of more of the classic we are we're here

48:33 for the reviews and the commentary and we want to be a staple there?

48:38 I feel like I kind of have a dream job right now.

48:41 I get to just show up,

48:44 play with cool tech and make videos about what I think is worth sharing.

48:49 And it's I'm not very good at like looking really far forward,

48:53 probably cuz I'm in tech and I realize I'm usually wrong about the future,

48:56 but I I think I'm just going to keep doing this.

48:58 And yes, there is some degree of evolving each of them.

49:02 We want to make better videos.

49:03 We I always want to make more videos,

49:05 but more and better is kind of hard to do both of them.

49:08 So, we're kind of playing with that a little bit,

49:10 but I think one thing that is unique about this channel

49:16 is that a lot of people who have big channels are specifically

49:21 in this mode of like how do I leverage this to jump

49:24 off and turn it into something else or or you know,

49:28 own the audience or like sell a product or whatever.

49:31 And I really like that that's not what I'm doing.

49:33 And I think audiences appreciate that that's not what we're doing.

49:37 We're just making the videos that we want to make.

49:39 So, yes, there are safety nets and yes,

49:41 we do have collaborations and we get to make products and those are really fun.

49:44 Um but the main thing is the main thing.

49:47 I love that.

49:48 No, I mean, so okay.

49:49 I mean, when you when you have the dream job and you do what you do,

49:53 when do you do you think that you have like a If you put it into words,

49:57 what do you have a purpose and if so, what is it?

50:00 I would say I'm lucky enough to be in this position

50:03 where I get to open a lot of doors for other creators.

50:07 So, if you ask me like how I got here, like I was early, that was great.

50:11 I got to make a whole bunch of videos.

50:13 I got really good at this one thing and now

50:15 a lot of people watch it and listen to it.

50:17 Awesome.

50:18 Now, we get to try new things.

50:20 We get to do brand collaborations in unique ways.

50:23 We get to interview really interesting and inaccessible people.

50:27 And maybe that goes really well and they go, "Oh,

50:29 I should do more YouTube interviews." Like we get to open doors,

50:32 hopefully, for other creators that come after me.

50:35 Um which I think feels like the closest thing

50:39 to a purpose in this weird fantasy job that I have.

50:42 So, I'll I'll stick with that.

50:45 Yeah, no, I mean, okay, on the note of other creators.

50:47 I I I kind of try and do this.

50:49 Uh and unfortunately, well, it just happens to be the case.

50:52 A lot of it's in my own space,

50:53 but who are other creators in your space right now that you

50:57 think are are killing it or and or on on the rise?

51:01 Oh, there's so many interesting stories.

51:03 I mean, I like I said, I watch a lot of YouTube.

51:06 I don't really watch TV or movies or anything like that.

51:09 I'm just like in YouTube land.

51:11 Um so, there's there's a ton.

51:13 I mean, I One that came to mind when you said

51:14 that, Becca Fershtey is a is a creator who was a part

51:18 of an a larger organization and and sort of branched out

51:21 and is now doing her own channel and she's about taking tech outside.

51:25 Killing it.

51:26 Super super good at it.

51:28 Cleo Abram is another one and she's she's

51:30 blown up since we've she first like went independent,

51:33 but she kind of had a little similar

51:34 arc where she was doing videos with Group Nine.

51:36 Now, she's independent.

51:38 Um Michelle Khare, another similar story.

51:42 I think when people are working as a part of a machine and that have

51:46 like really big aspirations and actually get to chase that, it's fun to watch.

51:50 Uh so, I I root for those stories.

51:52 How much of your day is filled with this cuz

51:55 um it just seems like you're doing so much.

51:58 And obviously, I make I mean,

51:59 I I I make comparisons uh in in like output and and and you know,

52:03 I know you have a team and everything,

52:04 but it seems like it's it's very time-consuming.

52:08 I know there's like that whole thing when you know,

52:10 if you don't treat it like a job,

52:11 it's not, but uh it still seems very time-consuming.

52:14 No, definitely.

52:15 I thankfully have ultimate frisbee as like my counter-balance,

52:20 like the other half of my brain,

52:21 the like active, competitive, ruthlessly, you know,

52:25 wants to win at all cost half of my brain,

52:27 so that I can like maybe shut that off a little bit for this part.

52:30 Um but yeah, it is a full-time job.

52:32 You have You have to treat it like a full-time job.

52:34 It is a very competitive space.

52:35 Everyone wants your spot.

52:36 Everyone wants to be doing what you're doing and they want to best you.

52:39 So, yeah, you have to be on top of it and so,

52:41 it's time-consuming and there's a lot of thought that goes into it.

52:44 Uh but yeah, I'm lucky to have like the other half of my brain, too,

52:47 that's like completely offline and then wakes

52:50 up on the weekends and kind of fun.

52:53 What's the age that you feel like you could go as far as ultimate?

52:57 Cuz I'm not I'm not I don't know like if there

52:59 are there are there older older guys out there uh with you?

53:03 No, you're right.

53:03 I'm over the hill.

53:04 I'm definitely past my time.

53:08 No, there I I So, ultimate, I would say I am in like the middle of my prime.

53:15 I am probably right over the hill.

53:17 Like the best players in the world are like 26 to 32 and I turned 32 this year.

53:25 So, I play golf, too.

53:27 Like there's there is I'm not going to play ultimate forever.

53:29 My knees would not be okay if I did that.

53:32 Um but I think you see a lot of athletes turn to competitive

53:35 side onto golf when they're done with the wrecking their knees sport.

53:38 Do the two worlds ever bleed over?

53:40 Like are do you have a MKBHD fans all of a sudden going to to games?

53:44 Does that happen?

53:45 A little bit, yeah.

53:46 Which is cool.

53:46 It's like uh I get to share this It's a pretty small sport,

53:50 so I get to sort of share a spotlight on what I think is,

53:53 you know, a underrated sport and maybe

53:56 the highest level of said underrated sport.

53:58 So, yeah, it does happen a little bit.

53:59 For your teammates, are are they are they are they aware?

54:02 Is it kind of a thing they they jokingly mention?

54:04 Does it impact anything?

54:06 Yeah, they're aware, yeah.

54:07 I It's you know, everyone everyone has another job in ultimate.

54:11 It's not like anyone Most people are not doing it as their full-time job.

54:14 So, everyone has another job.

54:15 So, yes, you know, they're aware and yes,

54:17 it's a it's an easy joke to make or or to to heckle

54:21 cuz there's heckles and there's fans who love to I unsubscribed.

54:24 That was a bad throw.

54:24 Like that's yeah, it's going to happen.

54:26 Uh but that's fine.

54:28 I think that's great.

54:29 I like it.

54:30 Is there I mean, when you were talking

54:31 about everyone's kind of gunning for your spot,

54:33 is that is that kind of just you know,

54:37 you you have that passing thought that everyone's competitive or has

54:40 it has it ever turned into something that's far more aggressive?

54:44 No, I I think it's kind of like we're

54:46 all pushing each other to innovate a little bit.

54:48 If I was making the same videos I was from 5 years ago or for 10 10 years ago,

54:52 it would be like like why why am I still making the same video?

54:55 So, we try to make the we try to make it a little better every time.

54:57 Maybe the worst that it gets is when people copy each other.

55:00 Um it usually doesn't happen too egregiously,

55:03 but it's like the reason like I talked about the the robot that we have,

55:08 which gets these crazy shots and we're able to like

55:10 work all day on an 8-second intro on the robot.

55:13 We do that stuff because it's so hard to copy.

55:17 And if you're going to try to differentiate yourself

55:19 from like the 5,000 reviews of the same exact iPhone 17,

55:25 you got to find ways to be

55:26 competitive and differentiate yourself and that's just,

55:29 you know, a fun version of that.

55:30 Yeah.

55:31 I mean, so as far as the the copying is the the most

55:34 flagrant thumbnails um or is it or are people doing word for words?

55:37 I think it's the easy it's the hardest to Well,

55:41 that's actually it's probably the the easiest to justify that your video

55:46 feels the same as someone else's because you're reviewing the same thing.

55:49 Like if we're both good product ana- analyzers or whatever,

55:55 and we're both analyzing the same exact product.

55:57 We're both probably going to come to the same conclusions

56:00 and we're going to say a lot of the same stuff.

56:02 So, the copying doesn't feel like copying.

56:05 The copying is like when the art style is the same or when the music

56:10 is the same or the title is the same or the thumbnail is the same.

56:13 Like those things you can get very creative and do

56:15 different stuff with, so maybe that feels a little less justifiable.

56:19 But I I I I see lots of people have the same takes

56:22 as me and I don't think that's shocking cuz it's the same product.

56:25 We're going to say a lot of the same stuff.

56:27 Right.

56:27 Yeah.

56:28 Uh as we're as to wind down,

57:05 I'm going to I'm kind of interested in a question that I think you've

57:08 at least been asked a version

57:09 of on a a creator-led podcast or creator-focused podcast,

57:14 but if you had to start from day one, day zero right now,

57:18 um you have an you have an iPhone,

57:20 I'll give you I'll give you that um in your pocket.

57:24 How would you start to try to build

57:26 back up all social media is available to you?

57:30 Wow.

57:31 Um so, I mean, the the high-level version

57:33 of this is like find what you're really really interested in.

57:37 The thing that you would pour an unreasonable amount

57:39 of time into whether it was successful or not.

57:42 I still I love tech.

57:43 I like really care about tech and I would probably

57:46 do a tech channel again cuz I have thoughts on tech.

57:49 And then, lean into the you part

57:53 of like what makes your perspective different from others.

57:56 So, what makes your style different from others?

57:59 Um I think Becca, who I mentioned before,

58:01 is a pretty good example of this where like I mean,

58:04 she's not starting from scratch, but she kind of was.

58:06 And it's like there's a bazillion tech

58:08 channels already and her angle is she likes the outdoors and she likes to take

58:13 the tech outdoors and see how it performs there.

58:15 It's not the most mainstream version and it's quote limiting in a way.

58:20 I'm not going to review a printer outside,

58:22 but it's like that's fun and unique and that's her and that's what she

58:25 enjoys and that's what will keep you doing it whether it's successful or not.

58:30 So, if you gave me an iPhone tonight and you

58:33 you reset everything and you said you have no channels,

58:35 you have zero subscribers, what are you going to do?

58:37 I would probably say, "Yeah,

58:38 I'm going to make a tech video and I'm going to I'm going to give my thoughts

58:42 while trying to sort of give some stylized B-roll

58:45 and I'm going to walk around this empty parking

58:47 lot in New Jersey and talk about this Neo

58:48 robot cuz I got some thoughts about it."

58:51 Are there any are there any platforms that you

58:52 think it's easier to grow than others right now?

58:55 TikTok.

58:57 TikTok.

58:57 Yeah.

58:58 That's that's I'm I'm very concerned though where

59:01 what's going to happen with it in the next

59:03 uh few months to see like if the algo is going to change and if so,

59:07 what does that look like?

59:08 It's uh what's the story?

59:09 Is it sold?

59:10 Is it re- What is happening with I mean,

59:13 it seems pretty much like it's going to be Ellison, you know.

59:16 Uh it seems like it's it's going that way and uh you know, I mean, I don't know.

59:20 Anytime I I I I do I I don't trust any billionaire.

59:27 Uh I I then there are there are levels

59:29 to to each billionaire that I trust less and less and less.

59:33 Yeah.

59:34 Uh biggest thing.

59:35 Even YouTube Shorts is like the amount of creators that are blowing up

59:39 on YouTube Shorts because it's a it's just a supply and demand question, right?

59:44 Like there's a lot of people scrolling a lot of Shorts

59:46 and there's not as many Shorts as there is demand for Shorts.

59:50 So, you can just I mean there's people getting 40 million

59:53 subscribers in a year from scratch just doing vertical videos on YouTube.

59:57 So, Yeah, even though the adsense is pretty

1:00:01 low especially when you compare it to long form.

1:00:03 It's usually better than Tik Tok cuz I

1:00:05 feel like Tik Tok caps everyone at like $400,

1:00:07 $600 if they're part of the creator fund.

1:00:09 I think that's true.

1:00:10 Yeah, and that's probably where people get more

1:00:12 in the mindset of like leveraging it into something else.

1:00:14 Like, okay, you just created an an audience of 20 million people in a year,

1:00:20 but you make like no money from it.

1:00:23 You probably want to start doing something else that does

1:00:26 make money and turn that audience towards that thing.

1:00:30 Totally understandable.

1:00:31 I just get I guess YouTube long form is such a rock as far as ads

1:00:36 and and monetization that it feels like I don't have to do that where we're at.

1:00:40 Yeah, well I do wonder I mean as far

1:00:42 as as YouTube long form and the ads that they're

1:00:44 serving if that's going to become even even stronger

1:00:48 or weaker with the rise of you know like things

1:00:52 like Atlas where all of a sudden there is

1:00:56 or or just AI agents in general of people you

1:01:00 know not using search as much and that kind

1:01:02 of that that part of their business maybe going down.

1:01:05 But, they're also pretty embedded in a lot of these AI companies, right?

1:01:09 Yeah, I do think as a content strategy I thought a lot about

1:01:12 this cuz like there is the publisher problem of like I write and I make

1:01:15 a website and it's like now Atlas is just going to scrape what I wrote

1:01:19 and never send clicks to my website and there goes all of my ad revenue.

1:01:22 I think specifically to combat that you have to have a section

1:01:27 of your brain or your strategy that is dedicated to also being

1:01:31 entertaining in a human way so that you can be informative and entertaining

1:01:35 and if if Atlas tries to strip the informative part from you,

1:01:38 they'll still go to you for the entertaining part.

1:01:40 You at least can sort of focus on retaining

1:01:43 an audience in that way cuz I think that's

1:01:45 that's nuking so many publishers where it's like people

1:01:48 didn't just like I mean some publishers they would,

1:01:51 but it's like people don't just go watch

1:01:53 a or read an article just for the fun of it.

1:01:55 Like I'm trying to get some information and like now that the information's

1:01:59 been stripped out that's like it's it's ruining that that little ecosystem.

1:02:03 So, yeah, as a content creator try to be entertaining.

1:02:06 That's not a surprising take, but it's important.

1:02:08 No, but I think no, I think it's actually

1:02:10 it's very important cuz I think there are a lot

1:02:11 of people concerned that their content which is often used

1:02:14 as a utility is going to lose a lot of value.

1:02:17 So, I think differentiating, being more you that makes sense.

1:02:21 It's those but that's all that's a lot of the stuff, right?

1:02:23 It feels like it's common sense and then you kind

1:02:25 of just sometimes need to hear hear it out again.

1:02:28 The last thing I'll leave you with and then

1:02:29 I'm going to give you back your day, sir.

1:02:32 Is there something right now that it may not even be good,

1:02:36 but you you're hopeful that it is,

1:02:38 excited about that's on the that's going to come out in the next 1 to 2 years.

1:02:42 Is there is there something that you're kind of like I can't

1:02:45 wait to to get my hands on or get to experience that?

1:02:49 Okay.

1:02:50 I will say you know, I mentioned the curves earlier of like

1:02:55 technologies that are improving really fast.

1:02:57 I think there's going to be a really really good sub $40,000

1:03:06 400 mile of range well-built electric car in the next couple years.

1:03:12 And you can get you can like tick two of those boxes.

1:03:15 You can't tick all those boxes today, but it's going to happen.

1:03:18 Sorry.

1:03:18 I'm just laughing cuz I'm like do you do

1:03:20 you do you not pre-order anymore cuz of the Roadster?

1:03:23 Cuz you're anymore like are you like never again?

1:03:26 I can't I mean if they the problem this is the problem

1:03:30 with electric cars it's so easy to just roll one out

1:03:33 on stage and it's functional and it drives and you just sort

1:03:37 of put a body on frame and then you sell the idea.

1:03:40 So, yeah, no, I won't pre-order anymore.

1:03:43 If it's not real and shipping,

1:03:45 I don't want to just give you an interest-free loan.

1:03:47 But, there are incredible cars out there that are like 400 miles of range,

1:03:52 really well-built but a quarter million dollars or they'll be

1:03:57 $40,000 and really well-built but don't have a lot of range.

1:04:01 So, I'm I'm I'm hoping we get to like

1:04:04 the no-brainer EV for the masses in like 5 years.

1:04:08 Awesome.

1:04:09 Well, Marques, thank you for the time, sir, and I hope you have a great one.

1:04:11 Thank you, man.

1:04:13 Yeah, thanks for having me on.

1:04:13 It was fun.

1:04:14 And that, dear listener, is the end of today's podcast.

1:04:17 Thank you for watching or listening.

1:04:18 If it's your first time here, definitely make sure you subscribe.

1:04:21 And hey, if you enjoyed the episode,

1:04:22 give it five stars in Spotify and Apple or give it a like on YouTube.

1:04:25 You know what?

1:04:25 While you're at it, leave a comment on what you agreed

1:04:27 with, disagreed with, or who you want to see next as a guest.

1:04:29 Thank you.

1:04:30 Stay safe out there, stay sane out there, and I'll see you next week.