Jack Antonoff on New Bleachers Album, Producing for Taylor Swift, "Insanity" of Ticket Prices

0:00 That's Jack Antinoff Bleachers has got a new album.

0:02 Jack is back.

0:03 May 22nd, everyone for 10 minutes.

0:05 My favorite way anybody's ever come in is

0:06 that because he walked in, he was like, "Wow,

0:08 you guys just been here the whole time since the last time

0:11 I saw you." And I feel like that's how some people feel.

0:14 Well, you guys have this the space we're in.

0:16 I'll explain this to everyone listening on the radio

0:18 feels um not it's like a nice insane asylum.

0:22 Yes.

0:23 Like it seems like there'd be, you know,

0:25 the kind of windows where you can't see out

0:26 of but they can see in and like taking notes like,

0:28 you know, um today they uh they talked about going home.

0:32 They don't know they that they have no homes.

0:34 Um and then we put we put them back to sleep.

0:36 You know what I mean?

0:36 Like today they

0:40 it kind of the way management treats us actually.

0:43 Sometimes I have a joke when I'm in the studio.

0:45 I'm like I'll talk to whoever with him like imagine like none

0:48 of like there's like doctors on the other side and they're like they

0:51 said they made a song they banged on a few things talked

0:54 about how great it was and then we put them back to sleep

0:59 kind of that's about the walls are padded

1:03 there there's a world where I'll say this I made that joke

1:07 a couple years ago be like that's funny and now there's like a

1:10 5% part of our brain that's like we might be heading exactly So you have

1:15 So good morning America.

1:17 Good morning.

1:17 You have uh you and forever dirty wedding dress in the van.

1:20 We've gotten to hear.

1:23 Yeah.

1:22 And um Dirty Wedding Dress.

1:24 I love that.

1:25 That's a song about your wedding to Margaret.

1:27 I like like that's the basis of it, the heart of it.

1:30 Well, you have experiences and sometimes you're like,

1:33 I know I'm going to write about this.

1:34 I'm just not sure how yet.

1:36 And it's never exactly what you think.

1:37 So that's the best day of my life.

1:40 Yeah.

1:39 Hands down.

1:39 No question.

1:40 Um, but what's interesting is when I started writing this album,

1:44 what struck me so much was this feeling of um,

1:48 all the people I love the most in my life being

1:50 in a space and the doors are closed and that was that.

1:53 And it made me think of my the bleachers audience

1:56 and it made me think about how the shows are like um,

2:00 they're open to everyone but they're they're also not for anyone.

2:03 You know, I mean like they're for sorry opposite.

2:05 They're open to anyone but they're not for everyone.

2:08 My everyone's anyone's

2:09 that's okay.

2:09 Um, it's on my mind a lot.

2:11 The anyone, everyone.

2:12 And there's a beautiful distinction there,

2:14 the idea of like like this is for anyone, but this is not for everyone.

2:19 And so, and I love that.

2:20 And it made me think like how how uh you know, cuz in playing live music,

2:25 recording the studio, I feel like it's bigger and more beautiful than ever.

2:29 It almost feels like an ancient ritual now that you don't have to do it.

2:32 Now, you could hit a button to make your music or you can play the tracks.

2:35 And and so now I feel like more than ever like obsessed with Yeah.

2:39 I think of it like an ancient ritual.

2:40 So in a weird way, that beautiful day made me think of what I say in the song.

2:46 My people.

2:47 Yeah.

2:47 Who they are.

2:47 And I think we all got to wonder who our actual people are.

2:50 And then there was all these other crazy people outside.

2:52 You said, I believe you called it[ __] Palooa was outside.

2:56 You guys were having a blast inside.

2:57 Well, there's different So there's the people who love your music.

2:59 Okay.

3:00 Right.

3:00 Right.

3:01 Those are the best people.

3:02 Well, I'm in a conversation with them.

3:03 There's the people who are interested on a bigger level of just sort of like

3:07 what it's like to to do what you do and that's really cool too.

3:10 sort of like the aunt at the at the family gathering like

3:13 like what's it like to play in front of people like how you

3:15 know and you're like and that's cool you're like I'll tell you Rudy

3:19 you know like right who are just fascinated and then there's[ __] pulooa

3:23 which is those are the vulture is the people who um you know

3:27 how'd you get in here but that's what's so beautiful and that's what I thought

3:31 about about my shows and my audience and my wedding too it's sort of like

3:36 those people are transient

3:38 and and it was kind of an amazing poetic experience how

3:40 there was a crowd outside of and once again that's not

3:42 like the fans of the music that's that's the the other

3:45 people um and like we didn't even know they were there.

3:47 It just it struck me.

3:48 Can you just tell him really quickly what happened at my wedding?

3:51 Because like I don't know how you didn't crowd.

3:53 No, it wasn't a big crowd but she got married at a hotel in West Point like

3:56 at the military at West Point but that there

3:59 was a bar adjacent to the wedding venue.

4:01 So all the people that were normally watching a baseball game

4:04 at the bar came out to the balcony and started watching the wedding,

4:07 but they were commenting and chatting and we could all hear it.

4:11 Same experience.

4:11 I stopped.

4:12 EXACTLY.

4:13 NO, HONESTLY THOUGH, but but metaphorically, yes.

4:15 Like your people and then people who don't know you and don't care about you

4:19 being a part of any intimate part of your life is a funny thing.

4:22 Yeah, but you're a bigger person and you just let it be.

4:24 I stopped mid- ceremony getting married to my husband and I said,

4:27 "Seriously, guys." And then they all shut up.

4:30 I did my version of that.

4:31 I I I cut it cutting a check for to bring some hedges in, you know,

4:36 like buying every, you know, as much security as we could find.

4:41 Like this is I my Yeah.

4:44 Before that, I was like, I'm not[ __] around with this thing.

4:47 I want to get married where I want to get married,

4:49 which is the island I grew up on and where my wife and I live.

4:52 I'm not let anyone ruin that.

4:54 And anyone can do whatever they want, but there's going to be some walls here.

4:57 Well, that's just what I was going to say is

4:58 I hope that that's not your biggest memory of your wedding.

5:01 Not even that's what the song is about.

5:02 It's not even close.

5:03 It's about It's the biggest memory of my wedding is

5:08 um you know, someone said to me, uh this is a bit morbid,

5:12 but it's like when you get married and when you die,

5:13 the times that everyone you love are in one place.

5:18 Um

5:18 for me, there's also the shows.

5:20 So, I get a little bit of that, too.

5:21 But I did I did think of that.

5:22 I was like, "This is surreal.

5:24 This is very uncanny." Like everyone's here and it's beautiful.

5:27 No one goes to a wedding.

5:29 No, no, not at all.

5:30 Jack Antonoff's here.

5:30 We got a new bleachers album May 22nd.

5:32 And we were talking uh about Dirty Wedding Dress just a few minutes ago,

5:36 but you you released three singles

5:37 and traditionally it's always been release one single,

5:39 play the hell out of it until everyone's sick

5:41 of it and then move to the next one.

5:43 So, as a producer, as an artist,

5:45 is three singles better for you or which which way do you prefer?

5:48 I think it's different for everyone.

5:49 Mh.

5:50 Like there's some people I work with who do no

5:52 singles be because that's the way they like to do it.

5:55 Some people do one, some people do multiple.

5:57 I like I always think if I think it's person specific,

6:00 but also there's some genreness to it.

6:02 Like

6:03 when you're a band like I want to welcome

6:05 people into the different sounds of this album and so

6:07 like you have like you and forever which is

6:09 like like romantic and brooding and gets really big.

6:12 Dirty wedding dress is very fun.

6:13 The van is very sentimental and has like a sample in it.

6:15 So, I just like the idea before you get

6:18 the whole album of of painting some of the picture.

6:20 But I don't know.

6:20 You know, I'm trying to give you a good answer.

6:22 Just whatever you feel.

6:24 You know what I wanted to say to you?

6:25 When you said a different vibe,

6:27 any bleachers fan before hearing this album can hear,

6:31 wow, it's really evolvement.

6:33 Yeah.

6:33 It sounds completely different.

6:34 You know how you hear some bands and you're expecting it

6:37 to go a certain way as soon as they release a new album?

6:39 Yours is not like that.

6:41 I never I never want to pacify.

6:43 That's what I'm saying.

6:44 a mission accomplished.

6:46 It was just like a wonderful thing to experience like wow this is really really

6:50 different and wow Jack has evolved because you

6:52 know we've been following you since fun man.

6:53 So it's a long time now.

6:55 You know what I'm saying?

6:55 You're not going to I feel this way as an artist and a producer.

6:58 It's like you're not going to beat the nostalgia of the old songs.

7:02 Yeah, that's true.

7:04 They hold such a place not just in like I I understand my audience.

7:07 I feel the same way when I play Roller Coaster or I want to get

7:10 Better Don't Take the Money or records like that or even like Chinatown now.

7:12 It's like it puts me in a place and it's so beautiful.

7:15 And when I play it, I get to revisit that place through the lens of my life now.

7:20 But I don't go to the studio and think

7:21 I need to do that feeling again cuz it's done.

7:25 Um, you know, it would be like trying to like fall in love again or something.

7:27 It's like you want to move forward and and find

7:29 new things and then uh you can always just feel it.

7:32 Like if anything feels too comfortable,

7:34 I think that's like anything in life, then then maybe it's too comfortable.

7:37 And you know, I wanted to give you a salute,

7:39 too, because who puts Walla in the song?

7:40 I mean, you're the the man, you know, Harry Styles is a huge Wawa fan.

7:45 I don't know if you know.

7:46 Look that up online, by the way.

7:48 Does Harry know about Wawa?

7:49 He was in a store when he came to uh he was doing his promotion for his album.

7:53 He was in New Jersey.

7:54 Of course, because that's where Wawa lives.

7:56 Also, a very specific Sometimes on tour, people were like,

8:00 "What are you doing with your mouth?" I'M LIKE

8:03 I'm like mother sheets, you know, I don't know,

8:07 uh, Flying J, you know, everyone's got one.

8:12 Back to, you know, you changing it up and evolving with your music.

8:16 It we were talking before you came in about how it's

8:18 so interesting how you are able to like switch modes or maybe

8:22 you can like talk a little bit about switching modes because

8:25 you are a writer and a producer also for other artists.

8:28 So, how do you go from like the DoAT

8:31 mindset to the Taylor mindset to the Kendrick mindset, then back to Sabrina?

8:35 Like, how do you are you able to switch modes like that or do you

8:38 have does like it take a second when you go to the studio with an artist?

8:41 Not really, you know?

8:42 I don't I don't know,

8:44 you know, like it's like very easy for me for some reason,

8:46 which is probably why I do it.

8:48 Um, but I think maybe the reason is because regardless of like genre,

8:54 project from producing something, if it's bleachers,

8:56 whatever it is, the goal is the exact same.

9:00 Yeah.

8:59 Which is like um to have a feeling and then

9:04 that is not there that is it's not even describable.

9:07 And then to take that thing and turn it into something that you can hit play on.

9:11 That is an extremely reductive way of describing a complicated thing,

9:15 but at the end of the day, that's it.

9:16 So genre, uh, personalities, anything, nothing matters.

9:20 It's just there's a feeling and then how does that become a record

9:24 when you make music with other people?

9:25 I this I had to ask you this because I heard Benny Blanco talking about it.

9:29 Have you ever worked with somebody who because I know you go to great

9:31 lengths and not let any leaks happen as I'm sure many producers and artists do,

9:35 but Benny was saying when he worked with Eminem that you

9:38 he still goes through like four different reps, he burns a CD.

9:42 That CD can only be played in like one car.

9:44 Have you ever worked with an artist where it's like they make

9:46 you go through like serious hoops to make sure that there's no leaks?

9:49 Because I feel like it happens so often now and it's just disappointing.

9:52 We're just we do the same thing to everyone.

9:54 We're just offline.

9:55 Okay.

9:55 Like we're just we don't we don't pass stuff around and it's kind of

9:59 you know between you guys just make it completely offline.

10:04 You know, second you start texting things and emailing things,

10:06 things get a little funny.

10:07 But I think uh

10:09 yeah, it's a it's a weird thing, you know.

10:11 It's tough because um

10:14 yeah, I I have the best Laura who has been my engineer and mixes

10:18 a lot of the records since as long as I've been making records.

10:20 She's just like so, you know, it's amazing to work with people

10:23 who are in love with what they do.

10:25 She's obviously in love with recording and mixing and engineering,

10:27 but she also has a great love for like uh just like technology and nothing.

10:33 So, she's she's I do whatever the hell she says.

10:36 She says, "This is, you know, you're going to get this file.

10:38 Here's 47 passwords, and then it's going to come from a bird,

10:41 and then like you got to like take care

10:43 of the bird for the rest of your life, and then

10:46 if you don't do a good job." I was like,

10:47 "What is it?" That is one part of my job where I'm like,

10:50 "You tell me what to do." I love that.

10:52 Is a strong friendship necessary to produce

10:54 an album or is a strong professional relationship enough?

10:57 Uh, a neither.

10:59 A a Sometimes I think about it like flying a plane together.

11:03 Like you have to be looking at the same thing.

11:04 That could come in many different forms, but you can't.

11:07 You're going in the same direction.

11:08 So, I think it's like, yeah,

11:10 like throwing the goalpost super far and then chasing it together.

11:13 Okay.

11:13 Jack, when you released the first Bleachers album,

11:15 you had told Mark Maron that you weren't happy with the state

11:18 of pop music and you wanted to be the guy to change it.

11:20 I said that.

11:22 How are you doing on that mission?

11:24 There's a question FOR YOU GUYS.

11:26 KILLING THE GAME, BABY.

11:27 KILLING THE GAME.

11:29 HEY, this album might do it for real.

11:30 For real.

11:31 Well, but how do you feel about that statement like hearing it now?

11:34 Uh it's beautiful.

11:36 You you shout your goals.

11:38 You manifest[ __] and you you say

11:41 crazy things because uh no one's going to say them for you and then you uh I

11:45 like having big goals and and and imagining

11:48 imagining pushing myself to all these levels, you know?

11:51 I just I never want to uh Yeah.

11:53 I just it it excites me to to be like what if?

11:56 Speaking of beautiful, tell me something about the relationship that you

11:59 have with Bruce Springsteen, your Jersey guy.

12:01 So cool.

12:01 You reach out to him.

12:02 He's a mentor.

12:03 Yeah, he's just he's he he he he gets it

12:06 and he I mean been a dear friend for a long time,

12:10 great inspiration for even longer.

12:12 We collaborated on on Chinatown.

12:14 That was that was so cool because I I wrote

12:17 the song about leaving New York City to drive back to New

12:20 Jersey to show someone the the you know the metaphor

12:24 of your the place you're from, but the true you basically

12:27 and then he comes in and sings the last chorus as like you know

12:31 the voice of New Jersey.

12:32 So that was like it's still incredibly emotional when we when we

12:35 play that cuz when we get to that part I hear him.

12:37 Um but he's just you know he's he's uh he's an incredible person and if I'm

12:41 ever wary of something or not sure what

12:43 to do uh he has incredible like sage wisdom.

12:47 How amazing did Jeremy Allen White do playing him?

12:50 Embodied him.

12:51 And I love that that movie was about depression.

12:53 Me too.

12:54 It wasn't about um

12:56 sensationalizing anything, you know.

12:58 It's not like uh you know cuz that I think

13:03 when it comes to film and TV with like making music,

13:05 everyone wants this like shooting heroin,

13:07 lighting candles, the song shoots out of nowhere and and and so it's so

13:11 much interesting more interesting to me to see

13:12 like what a person is going through.

13:15 So for the van, the music video, you shaved your head.

13:18 That's how it starts.

13:18 Correct.

13:19 Yeah.

13:21 Um it's kind of growing out now maybe.

13:22 I've always wanted to do it.

13:24 It's different.

13:26 I just I feel like you need to know the shape

13:29 of your head because it's like there's certain shapes that work and then certain

13:32 shapes I feel like you see people have been like I'm going

13:34 to do shave it and then it's like oh no what have I done?

13:37 I don't know.

13:37 I think a shaved head is kind of hard

13:38 no matter what you do because it's sort of like

13:41 it's like it's like so it's like out of like necessity

13:43 you sort of look like I don't have time for this hair.

13:46 Yeah.

13:46 Is it freeing?

13:47 Is it freeing a little like Well, it's very it's like a the act of doing it.

13:51 I've I had never done it until I did it.

13:54 And you know what?

13:54 Let me level with you.

13:56 Yeah.

13:56 I was terrified.

13:56 I was a little bit idiot.

13:59 So it's like to just go like and you and you know you never start here.

14:02 You you just like you commit.

14:04 You go all in.

14:05 Dive off the you know bridge.

14:08 Um yeah it's like well it's it's a super met it's a big metaphor.

14:12 You feel new and

14:15 like uh

14:16 naked and you're like yeah this is my face and head.

14:19 Is that a problem for you?

14:20 And everyone's like we have no problem.

14:24 I THINK WE all like sort of getting to a place

14:26 where there's a little more comfort in our lives,

14:28 but what do you miss most about the van days?

14:30 The thing I miss most about the van days was was also the thing I don't miss,

14:33 which is being literally inches from people all day long.

14:38 Um I I don't want to do that again,

14:42 but I'm so glad I did it for a decade because it's like with me.

14:47 It is with me.

14:47 I will never not feel that.

14:49 I will never play a show.

14:51 I will never play a soldout show and still not think they're not going to come.

14:55 When you drive around a van with everyone like sardines and you

14:58 do all this, you drive from Denver to Salt Lake City,

15:00 you sleep on someone's floor, you load in, you play to nine people.

15:03 That is and and you and you're happy.

15:06 That's like it's just in me.

15:07 That's why I wrote the song.

15:08 Me, my band, like I see it.

15:10 People out there who have that feeling.

15:11 It's so interesting because I I think I've told you guys this before.

15:13 We live in New York City.

15:14 Like we all have like little New York City apartments.

15:16 We're all like, you know, you feel like sometimes the wall is closing in on you.

15:19 And I I know I constantly want more space.

15:21 I want more space.

15:21 I wish we had like a big house.

15:23 But I remember I had a therapist tell me one time,

15:25 don't wish these times away because even though you feel like

15:27 you're like you're like the walls are closing in on you,

15:29 you're probably making some of the most fun crazy memories.

15:32 There's like a different type of bonding

15:33 with family and friends and like a small.

15:36 It's always it's always the good old days.

15:38 Yeah.

15:38 You know, like right now, you know, like I'm like,

15:40 "Wow, like the album hasn't come out yet.

15:42 I'm just talking about this thing.

15:43 like the band's about to go play these um excited

15:47 and unsure like first shows where we're going to play

15:50 these new songs and what are they going to feel

15:51 like like in 2 months these are the good

15:53 old days you know when I'm 10 years from now

15:56 I'll be like man I was so loose and free

15:59 you know like so I just try to hold

16:01 on to that cuz there's always something to be pissed about

16:03 speaking of the good old days do you

16:04 think you'll there'll ever be another fun album no okay

16:08 that was like a that was like a detour

16:09 for me because I've always I've always written

16:11 my own music and and sang it and then the three of us friends started a band.

16:16 So we just it and then I had steel training fun at the same

16:19 time and so I was like oh I can do this because then I still

16:21 have my thing and then it just got so big and it was just wild

16:25 but I I don't I don't think um I feel really happy producing records and

16:31 writing my own records.

16:31 I don't want more than that.

16:33 I don't want to uh do much else.

16:35 What is it that attracts you to producing a record?

16:37 Is it the artist?

16:38 Is it the songs they've given you for that album?

16:40 Is it just you you're just curious and go?

16:43 Yeah.

16:43 But also like it's like this feeling like oh

16:46 my god we could make something bigger than what

16:49 we're even talking about like we could like come

16:51 together and 1 plus 1 could equal equal a thousand.

16:53 Like it's just a a feeling.

16:55 Um you just you just see it in people and then you imagine making things.

17:00 But I don't Yeah.

17:01 Like it's funny when you get I think there's a pressure nowadays to do so much.

17:05 Yeah,

17:05 you know, you have this, you have this, you have this, you have this, and and I

17:07 really like I just want to make my records and I want to produce records

17:12 and I don't want to do anything else.

17:14 Um, so yeah.

17:16 What's your process to making songs?

17:17 Like for example, do you something hits you and you wake

17:20 up out of sleep and then you go right to, you know,

17:23 sometimes do you really more rare like that that it's it's happened?

17:28 Um, the phone's nice because you just sing something in your phone right away.

17:32 Uh but even before that, like I had a little tape recorder by the bed,

17:35 but mostly uh there's a randomness to it that I love.

17:39 Also very frustrating.

17:41 Yeah.

17:40 Um it always blows my mind when people who do

17:43 this have ego because it's like you can't turn it on.

17:47 The live show I can turn the on like that is like like

17:49 you put me anywhere with the band like we can do what we do.

17:52 But the making of it, it's like you it's so hard to know when it's going

17:57 to come and I think that frustration could drive people.

17:59 It's driven me crazy.

18:01 Yeah.

18:01 Like you remember when Charlie Puth like told us

18:03 that he he he can't like it drives him crazy.

18:06 He physically cannot turn it off.

18:07 He just hears melodies.

18:08 He'll be walking down the street or he thinks of a lyric,

18:11 he sees something or hears a sound and I feel like somebody who has as creative

18:15 of a mind as someone like Charlie or you

18:17 obviously especially it's got to be like constant.

18:21 Yeah.

18:21 But the thing that drives me even more crazy than

18:23 that is the inability to do something I love on command.

18:28 Yeah, that's true.

18:28 So I hear lots of things.

18:29 I see lots of things.

18:30 I have lots of thoughts.

18:31 So many things happen.

18:31 I'm like, that could be a song.

18:32 That could be a song.

18:33 And it's just never right.

18:35 It's never right.

18:35 And then one day, I'm just sitting around and I

18:38 do something so different than I even wanted to do.

18:40 And that's the thing I love.

18:42 You can't fake it.

18:43 The whole everything I do is just a gut feeling.

18:45 It's unbelievable.

18:46 Well, you know, cuz you've been here before.

18:48 Everyone who comes leaves a question for the next guest and it's time to

18:54 question.

18:56 Hello, my name is Anthony Norman.

18:57 My question is, if you could do one thing

18:59 today to positively impact your environment, what would it be?

19:02 It's a really great question.

19:04 Uh to to not be cynical.

19:08 I think cynicism is uh such a disease that do I have it for Yeah.

19:14 But you know um to really uh put hope out there.

19:21 And my and my question for the next guest Oh, he's ready.

19:23 I love this.

19:24 Is do I get to know who it is or no?

19:26 No, we never know.

19:27 Okay.

19:27 What's your theory on the JFK assassination?

19:30 I love this.

19:31 That's a great one.

19:31 I love this.

19:33 Whoever you are,

19:35 WHAT THE you know, you just talked about, you know, making a difference.

19:39 I do love that a portion of your ticket sales are going to be going to charity

19:43 because the ticket sales and that whole landscape

19:46 has just become so absurd and and just crazy.

19:49 I just love that you're taking any step to try to fix it.

19:51 Yeah.

19:52 any any show you've ever come to mind in history,

19:54 a dollar goes to the other coalition of every ticket.

19:56 And then also the whole thing is so but what we can control is

20:00 no dynamic pricing and the face value of our ticket.

20:04 Yeah.

20:03 Can't control much beyond that as much as we try.

20:06 But I'm not going to have a face value of any ticket

20:08 in my show ever that says this show is for rich kids.

20:11 That's not that.

20:12 You know what I mean?

20:13 It has to be uh it has to be for everyone.

20:16 And I just, you know, God willing, uh,

20:19 the government gets involved with with actually what's going

20:21 on because it's it's such a it's out of control.

20:23 It's crazy way of going to show battling bots.

20:27 You know, stop making everything a free market.

20:30 The whole point to me about shows, right?

20:32 I'm I'm an artist and I say, "Okay, my audience is made up of all

20:37 these different people of all different means, right?

20:39 And I want them all represented, right?

20:41 Okay.

20:42 So, this is a price, you know, that that is fair, right?

20:45 And there's no price that's unfair.

20:46 I don't care if it's the front row.

20:47 You know, I think the, you know, the craziest ticket on the on the bleacher

20:50 store is like 125 bucks or something like

20:54 that or which which is I think it's a lot of money or maybe a little more than

20:58 most like 60 70 or whatever it is.

21:00 How the would you ever charge, you know, 1500 for any ticket?

21:03 I don't care where it is.

21:05 Because the idea is person A, they got a lot of money.

21:09 They don't care.

21:09 Person B, they got no money and they have to work,

21:12 you know, they have to work extra shifts to get that ticket.

21:15 But the the thing that I love about show is when

21:17 you put those two people in the same room, they're the same.

21:20 Yes.

21:20 And that's why that's why everything going on with like turning

21:24 a a seat map into a free market is is soed up.

21:28 You know, everyone paying a different price.

21:29 Like treat people the same.

21:30 I'd love Yeah, it's hard.

21:32 I'm doing everything I can, but it's it's really tough out there.

21:35 Everyone for 10 minutes is out May 22nd.

21:36 Jack, thank you so much.

21:37 Thank you guys for having me.

21:38 So you guys will just be here in Okay.