First Descent at The Redd | OPB Film screening panel

0:00 [applause]

0:01 Thank you all so much for being here this afternoon.

0:03 My name is Robin Elkayam OPB's director of strategic engagement and I get

0:08 the tremendous honor of inviting our panelists and guests up to join me.

0:13 Now is the time.

0:14 Please come up.

0:16 I'm not going to introduce them.

0:17 I'll let them do that themselves.

0:20 Teja, let's start with you.

0:21 Why don't we introduce ourselves around the horn?

0:23 Okay.

0:45 Woah, there's a lot of family here.

0:48 [laughter] Can't name them all.

0:50 Hi, my name is Teja Linwood.

0:52 I'm from the I'm Karuk from the village of Amekyaram.

0:56 I'm Okanagan, Ojibway, Wampanoag, and Tohono O'odham.

0:59 And my mom is Nisha Supahan and Toby Linwood.

1:02 My dad is Toby Linwood and my sisters

1:05 and brother and a lot of family are here, too.

1:08 Along with these guys, I guess.

1:13 Hey young, Julian Holliat not in a way after minslang moana hostan minandia.

1:19 Hello everybody.

1:20 My name is Julian Tony Cal Rogers.

1:22 I'm from the Hoopa Valley Tribe.

1:24 My mom right here, Ginger Rogers.

1:27 And I have all my other family here.

1:30 I'm 16 years old.

1:35 Oh man.

1:36 Okay.

1:37 Um Hey young, Audette's Nakai Holliat not in a way after minslang moana.

1:48 [laughter] I'm his brother.

1:51 So, we're both Hoopa.

1:53 I'm also a little Navajo.

1:55 And um [laughter] Yeah.

2:00 Oh, right.

2:01 I said that in Hoopa, my bad.

2:02 Um my name's Audette.

2:05 Brandon, let's go with you first.

2:07 Hello, my name is Brandon Swanson, uh cinematographer and editor at OPB.

2:11 I I shot a fair bit of that, not a lot of it.

2:15 Not most of it.

2:16 Most of it.

2:18 Half of it.

2:18 [laughter] And then I edited it.

2:22 [clears throat] And then I edited it with Jesse Sears.

2:24 My name's Jesse.

2:25 I'm Karuk and I'm the producer of First Descent.

2:29 Awesome.

2:30 Welcome everybody.

2:33 [cheering and applause] Thank you for sharing this stage with me today.

2:37 So, I want to actually get started on the filmmaking side.

2:41 Brandon, these cameras got wet, right?

2:45 There is no avoiding that.

2:47 What were some of the things you all had

2:48 to prepare for in deciding how to shoot this?

2:52 Well, we yeah, we we struggled with how to put gear together

2:55 because we knew once we'd be on the water, that was it.

2:57 And so, there was some stress about making

3:00 sure that we didn't ruin things on day two

3:02 because then I'm just drawing pictures of the rest

3:05 of what's going on, which nobody wants to see.

3:07 Um and so, there there was actually the worst 3 miles of Julian's life.

3:12 We were actually trying to keep up in a canoe.

3:16 We got the shot of them all entering the lake finally and so,

3:19 we thought let's jump in our canoe and try and catch up.

3:24 [laughter] And immediately there was 30, 40 foot waves?

3:27 50 foot waves easily.

3:29 Um And we were taking on water.

3:32 I had the camera kind of holding it like baby Yoda and I hear Jesse saying,

3:38 "Maybe we don't die today.

3:39 Maybe we turn around." And I thought that was wise for just saving

3:43 the production and making sure that our equipment was in good working order.

3:47 But then a lot of the cameras, a lot of the my favorite stuff is

3:49 stuff that they all shot themselves with their GoPros,

3:52 stuff that we wouldn't have had were it not for them.

3:56 So, that helped a lot.

3:58 Jesse, backing up a little bit.

4:01 Can you tell us a little bit why it was so important

4:03 to you to tell this story and to tell it the way you did,

4:08 centering the kayakers themselves?

4:11 Yeah, I as a Karuk tribal member,

4:13 I was actually like born and raised in Portland.

4:15 So, I started my reconnection with my roots when the dams

4:20 began to fall and I filmed that for about 3 years.

4:23 This was Swiftwater Films.

4:25 And then I started at OPB last December and right away I was like,

4:30 "I need to film the First Descent." And they're like, "Okay,

4:32 you have 15 minutes cuz you're new." And I went down

4:37 there and I realized how much news and media was there kind

4:41 of like crafting this story and I wanted to like take

4:44 a step back and let them guide it and be like, "Okay,

4:48 I keep hearing from everyone else why this is important,

4:50 but why is it important to you?" So,

4:52 I really wanted to let them guide that story um and it was

4:57 special for me also just being on the river with them and seeing like,

5:01 "Oh, last year there was a huge dam here and I

5:03 was at the top of it and now it's gone." And so, that was really cool.

5:07 Um And then I showed the footage and they're like, "Okay,

5:11 it could be 30 minutes long." Which was good

5:13 cuz they they you want to see more of them.

5:16 They're just so great.

5:17 I I'm curious for both of you, too.

5:20 Were there decisions that you had to make on the water on the day, you know,

5:25 you're dealing with natural environment that surprised you or maybe you didn't

5:30 know you were going to have to make those choices on that day?

5:32 Yeah, I I think for me the the biggest thing

5:35 was deciding when to film and when not to film.

5:39 There was a lot of times where the paddlers would come

5:42 off the water and they were just gassed or hungry, hangry,

5:46 irritable and it was the wise decision to just, "Hey, let's just not." And now,

5:52 we had the benefit of following this from start to finish.

5:54 So, we could we had the luxury of time

5:58 and being able to just say, "Oh, you know what?

6:00 This person's not too happy today.

6:01 Let's not force anything." And I was following Jesse's lead

6:06 a lot with that and we got pretty good at nonverbal communication.

6:09 When she would like flare two nostrils, I would know,

6:11 "Okay, don't film." Or when we'd go up to Audette's,

6:16 we'd be like, "What's up, Audette?" and he was not feeling it.

6:18 We're like, "All right, we're going.

6:19 He's He's tired today." I would think another big one, too,

6:23 is like it's I can geek out for a second, but I really wanted it to be in 4K,

6:29 but at the end we were on a raft with no access to our car and there

6:34 was like no way to pack that many batteries and that much like SD cards and so,

6:40 we had to drop the drop it down to 1080 and not film at certain points

6:48 if it wasn't super important because we only

6:49 had so many batteries for like 3 whole days.

6:52 We had no no backup.

6:53 That was also stressful cuz if we dropped the camera,

6:57 there's then we would just be along for the ride at that point.

7:01 That's That's high pressure.

7:03 High pressure in water, all the things.

7:06 All right, let's turn it over here to the real the real stars of the show.

7:11 Um so, I'm curious, you know,

7:14 they they packed so much into 30 minutes, 30 days, right?

7:21 So, they mentioned really briefly that you trained for 2 years to do this.

7:26 Can you tell us a little bit about what that actual training was like?

7:31 Yeah, so the training like we me and him started in the first cohort,

7:35 which was in 2022 and she started in the second cohort, 2023.

7:40 Um and there was like a couple week long program,

7:44 which was like the introduction to kayaking.

7:46 And then from there, you know,

7:48 we were always told that we were going to do this First Descent,

7:51 but we would need to do a lot of practice.

7:53 So, Rios to Rivers, Paddle Trouble Waters,

7:56 they kind of made a collaboration with this school called World Class Academy.

8:02 And what it was was like a semester long

8:04 school program where we'd travel around and we'd kayak.

8:07 Um and so, that was our training.

8:09 Me, him, Teja, we we did both semesters of it where we traveled

8:14 to Chile and then the Pacific Northwest and we just kayaked every day.

8:20 Um and yeah, that was our training.

8:22 You know, what was it like?

8:24 Teja, you had some stories for us,

8:27 some lines for us in the film about hearing from your ancestors,

8:30 wanting to pay it forward, also wanting to have this next generational angle.

8:36 How does it feel for you now today knowing

8:39 that a year ago you were doing this descent?

8:42 A whole year ago.

8:43 Wow, time moves fast.

8:46 [laughter] Um I think it's I don't know.

8:49 I feel like this has been like really like it's like I don't know.

8:53 It's never It's like been really present in my life

8:55 for a very long time and it still continues to be.

8:57 I'm still going to events like this and I get

9:00 to watch the movie a lot and um you know,

9:03 just like a lot of reminders of it and a lot of people talking about it,

9:06 which is um really awesome and a really cool um reminder.

9:12 And I think that it's it's like still like still I get to hear from family

9:20 and friends who like congratulate me and like not

9:25 just that, but just like It's hard to explain,

9:29 but are like just so like proud of this whole thing

9:34 and still like continue to express like how proud of me they are.

9:39 Um and like how much it meant to them and how much it's meant

9:43 to people um all over and I think that is just so it's feels very nice.

9:54 What about for you guys?

9:55 How was it?

9:56 You know, I think for me I always think

9:59 it's like the release of you all into the river,

10:02 but then the return of you all to your families.

10:05 What was that return like?

10:08 Gradual.

10:09 Yeah.

10:10 Um right after the first descent we So,

10:15 there was the Chilanes were some of the people that came to join us.

10:19 And right after the first descent,

10:21 they went to me and Julian's uh homeland the Hoopa reservation.

10:27 And we showed them around a little bit.

10:30 So, we didn't really go straight home.

10:32 We went and hung out with our grandma a little bit.

10:35 And then right after that program ended,

10:37 which was like I don't know, 3 days or something.

10:39 We uh went to Chiloquin.

10:43 And we paddled with some natives over there up in the headwaters,

10:48 which was a little traumatic after.

10:54 [laughter] But, um And then eventually after that we went home.

10:57 So, we didn't really at least I didn't really fully process

11:02 that the descent was over for like another week or two after.

11:09 Was it something that when it happened, was it immediate?

11:13 Like were people coming and talking to you about it right away or did it

11:16 take a while for like the news to catch up to this big thing happened?

11:22 Hm.

11:23 Well, there was a lot of people at the celebration at the [laughter]

11:27 That's true.

11:28 Yeah, it was big.

11:28 Um I mean, it's kind of like they don't a lot

11:34 of the times they don't specifically recognize

11:37 you like this straight from the descent,

11:39 you know, cuz there's a lot of kids and all

11:42 of their families were posting their kids and stuff.

11:45 So, um but if you if you bring it up to anybody they're like, "Oh my god.

11:52 [laughter] That's so cool.

11:53 I've been following your journey on Instagram." So, Yeah.

11:58 It was it was kind of kind of immediate,

12:00 but it's pretty pretty easy to uh avoid Yeah.

12:05 avoid it.

12:06 And did you know a lot of the other kayakers before

12:09 you started the descent or did were you meeting new people there?

12:14 Um yeah.

12:15 So, our training was like so everyone who went

12:18 on the descent like went descent went through the training.

12:20 So, a lot of them we met um either that that first

12:26 that year um that semester or a couple years before.

12:31 Um and just like on different programs we have um an annual um Deschutes

12:37 trip where we kayak for the weekend um on the Deschutes River um in October.

12:42 Um I met my best friend on that trip.

12:45 Um we met a lot of different people um just like throughout the training.

12:50 Um so, we knew like everyone who went um fairly closely, too.

12:54 So.

12:55 Nice.

12:56 And half of them were our our cousins.

13:01 [laughter] That sounds right to me.

13:01 Yeah.

13:03 So, what is next for in kayaking in kayaking news?

13:08 Are all three of you still doing it right now?

13:09 I think you're also young.

13:11 I'm like you also have other things going on in your lives.

13:14 I'm going on Monday.

13:16 Going on Monday?

13:19 Nice.

13:19 And for me I'm doing like uh I'm doing

13:22 this school for kayaking called uh World Class Kayak Academy.

13:26 And so, like I'm on break right now, but it's pretty much every day for me.

13:29 I'm going around in kayaking in all these different places.

13:32 So, I think it has like a a really good and big like place for me in my future.

13:38 Mhm.

13:39 Where's next on the map?

13:40 Uh I'm going to Europe next.

13:42 Nice.

13:43 Yeah.

13:43 All right.

13:43 Well, we'll expect to see you soon

13:45 at in uh another documentary kayaking in across Europe.

13:50 I was just curious what your favorite part of the descent

13:53 was or like favorite day or like favorite moment, you know?

13:58 Um seeing uh all the different parts of the river.

14:01 There was a lot of parts that I'd never seen.

14:04 Um seeing the headwaters and hanging out with um my best

14:10 friends and everyone and my siblings and cousins and um yeah,

14:18 just hanging out and being on the water like every single day.

14:21 Got to swim a lot.

14:22 So, that was fun.

14:25 Uh yeah, mine are super similar to Tejas.

14:27 Hanging out with uh you know, all my family and all my friends in that program.

14:32 Hanging out with Jerian right there.

14:34 He was

14:36 [laughter]

14:35 he was with us during the whole the whole descent.

14:39 And yeah, just hanging out with people.

14:42 Um me, too.

14:45 [laughter] Pretty much the same things, you know.

14:47 I love my cousins.

14:48 They're cool.

14:49 Uh I liked my favorite might have been um

14:54 all the people that are like from all over.

14:57 It was cool to see after visiting the uh Chilanes in their territories,

15:05 it was cool to have them come towards

15:07 our home and explore this with us, you know.

15:11 Um I want to ask a question.

15:13 What was it like reconnecting with your people by kayaking?

15:17 Um kayaking was a very it How do I phrase this?

15:23 It was Okay.

15:24 A very different perspective than we're used to, you know.

15:28 It's the parts parts of the river that um we were paddling along.

15:34 Me and well, all three of us, I guess.

15:37 We drive along those sections just to when we're visiting home from here.

15:42 So, it was it's just really man, I don't know.

15:48 Um I think it was really cool.

15:50 I got to see a lot of family like along the river.

15:52 Um we had a couple community days and the um Klamath River runs through

15:57 like a lot of um I mean like our home like our like oh,

16:03 I don't like I don't even like our homes, I guess.

16:06 Um a lot of like right through town.

16:08 So, sometimes like we'd pull off and I'd just like randomly

16:11 see like some cousins or like friends um which was really awesome.

16:15 And sometimes I'd get to go swimming with them and um just hang out in general.

16:21 And I think that was really um fun for me and them.

16:25 So.

16:25 I think also Jessie,

16:27 do you want to speak a little bit to what it means to be part of a river people?

16:32 Um cuz Karuk is also a river tribe.

16:36 Yeah, it was really wild for me.

16:38 Like I said earlier um being a Karuk tribal member,

16:42 but being born and raised in the city.

16:45 And then going to reconnect while filming the dams being removed.

16:51 And then seeing these amazing young people do this incredible journey.

16:58 It was really insane for me.

17:00 I actually can't put it into words.

17:02 Um but I definitely like cried on the last day being on the water

17:07 and just seeing all of them celebrate that they completed this journey.

17:12 Um it was really really amazing.

17:14 And there were even days where like Teja was like,

17:17 "You're saying that Karuk word wrong." Like she was like, "It's not Yutva.

17:23 It's What is it?

17:24 It's not Yutva.

17:25 It's Yotwa.

17:26 Yes.

17:26 [laughter] Still don't have it down.

17:28 But, it was just really incredible to be with them

17:31 and a part of it and filming and it was great.

17:34 Thanks.

17:35 Seeing this film, it occurs to me that lots of other people are going

17:39 to be attracted to the Klamath to come and check out kayaking there themselves.

17:44 I'm wondering what thoughts you may have on how

17:46 we keep from loving the resource to death again.

17:50 It's a great question.

17:51 So, there's a concern about, you know,

17:53 the descent inviting more people to be kayaking

17:56 on the Klamath and what that might mean.

17:57 How do we keep our rivers healthy uh in that in that environment?

18:02 Brandon, thoughts about that?

18:04 We've talked a little bit about that in past Oregon Field Guide episodes.

18:08 I don't I I feel like that's

18:09 something that's constantly discussed when we're talking

18:12 about stories that we decide to cover is are we by showing off this place,

18:17 are we inviting ruin?

18:20 But, the way I always come down is um that it's not really

18:25 our job to like block places on the planet from other people experiencing it.

18:33 That said, it's a great question of how do

18:35 we make sure that this river doesn't get ruined.

18:37 And it's something that's we're constantly wrestling with.

18:40 I don't have a great pat answer uh right now.

18:44 Jessie, do you?

18:45 Yeah, and I think a huge part of it, too,

18:47 when we were filming this was um to not disclose exact locations.

18:51 We were very very adamant about that.

18:54 And you know, we didn't put exact locations when we did the maps.

18:58 Um when we're at the headwaters, we know that that is a very sacred place.

19:02 So, we only filmed in one direction and did not film the exact headwaters.

19:07 Um we never like looked the other way.

19:09 We only looked forward um and we didn't disclose the park that we were at.

19:14 And so, we did do and I know that you

19:16 guys also like got out at certain sacred places as well.

19:21 And um yeah, we we had this in mind going into it.

19:25 And those were some of the steps that we took.

19:28 But, in an era of Google Maps and uh you know,

19:31 Instagram and all of that people can find

19:34 these places if they want to look hard enough.

19:37 I guess our goal is just not to make it so easy

19:40 that the people who won't come there respectfully uh will come there.

19:46 Where does this come from for each of you?

19:49 Is it just family?

19:51 Um how is it that you're so tapped into your own cultures?

19:55 Is there Do you get to learn about this stuff

19:58 in school or is this all just you guys and your families?

20:05 [clears throat] Um I Well, all three of us um all of our uh

20:11 our we grew up together really closely um lived together.

20:15 And so our parents are like also really close and our parents

20:19 are also really involved in the culture and the religion and the tribe.

20:24 And so we all grew up that it like in that environment and learning

20:29 the language and learning the traditions and going

20:31 to ceremonies and um I mean we're all like wearing um like traditional pieces um

20:40 and just like those kind of things that were

20:42 just kind of like built into how we were raised and how we grew up.

20:46 And so um I mean I'd say I don't feel

20:50 like I learned a lot of this like in school.

20:52 It was all like built into just how I lived my life and how my parents

20:56 lived their lives and my aunties and my cousins and um everyone I grew up with.

21:03 I We all go back to the um to where we grew up

21:07 or not where we grew up or where they where they grew up.

21:09 I was mostly raised in Portland.

21:12 Um but like every summer we go down to um

21:15 our reservations and we go to ceremony and we hang out

21:18 with all of our family who still live there and um

21:22 we're all just like very like part of that culture.

21:25 That's part of who we are and that's part of um made what made us

21:30 who we are today and um I think that all played a really big role

21:35 into what we were doing with um the whole First Descent and why we did

21:39 it and um I mean kind of just everything we do day-to-day in our lives.

21:48 In the uh film you were talking about some reflections and any

21:53 reflections that you've had since this experience about what's next for you?

21:57 Yeah.

21:58 Um I think I think what's next is um teaching my little brother how to kayak.

22:05 Um which um is something he's probably going to do soon.

22:12 Um and just things like that and just um I've been

22:16 trying to be more um have a more of an open perspective

22:20 and making sure that I'm taking into account um all of these like

22:26 like a lot of what people say to me and bringing

22:28 that into like how I think outwardly to the world and um

22:33 I don't know if that makes sense but um just like those kind

22:36 of things and like learning more um cuz no one can ever

22:40 know it all even though sometimes I'm just like so smart for real.

22:44 Um but [laughter] um and just making sure that I'm always

22:51 like looking forward and seeing how my actions

22:54 now will affect me later on and affect people I'm around um in the future.

23:01 You guys mentioned in the documentary how that like the same

23:04 thing where dams are being put up is happening around the world.

23:07 So I was wondering if there's anything that like young

23:09 people now could do about that or just anyone in general.

23:13 There's a lot of movements that are uh

23:17 already established that you can you know just support.

23:21 There's You can How do you find it?

23:26 [laughter] Yeah.

23:26 I don't know.

23:27 I mean there's Rios to Rivers.

23:28 That's one That's the organization we joined.

23:31 And Rios to Rivers I'm sure has [snorts]

23:33 other places that um help with these things.

23:36 Yeah.

23:36 They're They're all connected.

23:39 [laughter] They got You just got to just go

23:41 to Rios to Rivers and they got all the organizations.

23:44 Yeah.

23:45 They any river you want, bro.

23:47 Help my river, dude.

23:48 Help the Trinity [laughter] River, dude.

23:50 Yeah.

23:51 Oh, and there's definitely like rivers like um

23:54 like up here like in Oregon and like at the headwaters and the lakes

23:59 of the Klamath River and different tributaries like all

24:02 um up here um and different water projects

24:05 that are being protested and sometimes they're hard

24:09 to find but um you kind of just have to look a little bit and yeah.

24:14 Swan Lake Hydro Project.

24:16 Mm.

24:16 That one.

24:17 Look that one up, bro.

24:19 That one needs to go, guys.

24:20 And I think also just being here is like really helpful for sure.

24:24 Letting people know about it, too.

24:26 Yeah.

24:28 I was wondering if y'all know how many dams are left on the Klamath River, too.

24:32 Yeah, there's two left.

24:33 Yes, two left.

24:34 Yeah, they

24:35 There's also um two on the Trinity which is the tributary to the Klamath.

24:40 So, you know.

24:41 So I think what I'm hearing you say is our work is not done.

24:44 No.

24:44 Definitely All right.

24:47 My last question for uh maybe for all all of you actually.

24:51 Um I'll start with you two.

24:52 Give you a moment.

24:53 Uh is there anything from this experience that is on your heart that you

24:59 are really hoping I hope this one

25:02 nugget gets carried through to the next generation.

25:07 Anything come to mind?

25:12 I I think for me it's it's the idea that not all hope is

25:15 lost and that people working together can

25:19 push something through even if it takes decades.

25:24 Yeah, I was going to say something similar about like just especially today um

25:29 we're very off balance and it's gets really easy to get lost in all

25:36 the negative but I think if we take time to actually like find the positive

25:42 uh we can use that as like a jumping point for hope and change.

25:46 And I mean I can already I've heard it.

25:50 I've seen it of just like this this incredible

25:55 journey that you guys went on impacts so many people.

25:58 I don't think you all under fully understand.

26:01 Like I've seen it and um not only is it

26:04 inspiring but I it definitely lights up hope in people

26:08 and I think if we can turn more to the good

26:13 that's happening again we can like build ourselves up.

26:16 Um and I think Yeah.

26:20 I can end on that.

26:21 I can go on forever.

26:22 You're good.

26:24 Please, add it.

26:26 Mm.

26:27 It's just what we want to keep going.

26:29 Yeah.

26:30 Um let's see.

26:32 Pretty I don't know.

26:33 Like just keep the momentum, you know.

26:36 Cuz the activism has never stopped, you know.

26:42 They didn't want the dams to be put in when they were first proposed.

26:45 We want them out.

26:46 We still got There's still more dams that need

26:49 to be taken out on many rivers and yeah, just just don't stop.

26:58 Uh yeah, one like thing that I want people

27:02 to know is like dams aren't a clean energy source.

27:05 I've seen like just recently I saw a video that was like

27:07 claiming that they were and a lot of people were like supporting that.

27:11 And I just like want people to know that dams aren't a clean energy source.

27:15 They're not green energy.

27:17 They harm rivers.

27:18 They harm the communities.

27:19 They displace people and yeah, it's just they're not clean.

27:23 Thank you.

27:24 Yeah.

27:24 Tayden.

27:25 Yeah.

27:27 [laughter] Good answers.

27:33 Um yeah, I think Oh,

27:35 I just I just thought out what I was going to say and then I lost it.

27:39 But I mean definitely what the both of them said.

27:42 Um and just that like you can't forget

27:45 that these things happened because there might not be dams all

27:48 the There might only be two dams now but there

27:51 was once six and you can't forget about that.

27:54 And um that they were fought for and they were fought over

28:00 and that war is never going to be over until it is, I guess, but I don't know.

28:07 Thank you.

28:08 Let's hear it again for our amazing kayakers.

28:11 [cheering] [applause] [cheering] [applause] [applause]