DEAD AIR: Lil Marco's Big Trip with Steve Schmidt and Dean Blundell

0:00 outside.

0:00 Can't make it up.

0:01 Jerking off outside a couple's hotel room in the lobby

0:05 caught by hotel security.

0:07 I inconceivable that that would have happened

0:09 in the Secret Service 20 years ago.

0:14 Mhm.

0:14 When when when I was around the Secret Service all the time in

0:18 Inconceivable.

0:20 Yeah.

0:20 Can't K can't cop KOP can't copperhead is the same organization.

0:24 But but at any rate but at any rate across the across the board rock.

0:30 Mhm.

0:31 Yeah.

0:31 Yeah.

0:32 And and and we don't just see it in these disastrous diplomatic videos where

0:37 Rubio shows up with a football squeaky shoes and no idea what day it is.

0:43 Um we also see it in you just pointed it out yesterday.

0:47 his press scrum on the reflecting pool in the reflecting pool

0:53 in our reflecting pool that you and I went on a big tour

0:57 a couple of weeks ago where we actually saw I think I've got that

1:01 I think you filmed history Dean

1:02 I did you are there there is there is another Dean Blondelle out there

1:15 um except he didn't have an iPhone when

1:17 they laid down the cornerstone of the Washington Monument.

1:21 No, I should.

1:21 When

1:21 it comes to the reflecting

1:23 years ago, when it comes to the reflecting pool, are you watching this?

1:28 American flag, blue reflecting pool.

1:31 You seeing this?

1:31 This is uh this is Donald Trump unwilling

1:35 to park in front of the reflecting pool,

1:37 walk to the reflecting pool to see the paint swatches that he has ordered.

1:44 uh emptied the reflecting pool because if you remember

1:47 he called it a pool lake pond quote or something.

1:50 Uh and he wanted it a nice Bahamas turquoise.

1:53 Nice Bahamas turquoise.

1:55 Now what you're seeing them drive over and I don't know what level

1:58 of disrespect you you you assign to Donald

2:01 Trump being too fat, lazy, and stupid.

2:05 So he just decides to drive on the reflecting pool

2:08 which is empty and drive on these paint swatches so

2:11 he can inspect them and conduct a press conference where

2:14 yesterday he said a a uh I'm going to nuke Iran.

2:20 Just expect a big glow if they don't sign this deal.

2:22 B.

2:23 The Pope wants Iran to have nuclear weapons and called

2:26 an ABC female ABC reporter a[ __] after telling

2:29 her she was the worst and she was awful and demeaning

2:31 her for a solid 30 seconds asking a process question.

2:35 Uh but the last part of this which I found absolutely fascinating which

2:40 you know to me in in my estimation uh of everything that Donald

2:45 Trump is that we're discussing today that does not get talked enough about

2:49 on mainstream media is the complete[ __] disrespect disrespect for where he is,

2:57 what he's driving on, and what this means.

3:04 Yeah, it's incredible.

3:07 Dean at the pool.

3:07 Dean at the pool.

3:08 Uh, but by the way, I just want you to know

3:11 that I was the first person to get a visual of this.

3:13 Uh,

3:14 you are Dean.

3:15 Yeah, let's I was there with you.

3:17 Yeah, let's watch you proof.

3:18 Steve was there.

3:19 This is history.

3:20 This is history, folks.

3:21 If we can play the clip

3:23 straight

3:23 at the reflecting pool on my way to Lincoln Memorial.

3:26 We were there last night.

3:26 We're going to do it again.

3:27 Donald Trump may have told the truth for the first time ever.

3:31 Kids, it's the turquoise pool.

3:36 The turquoise reflecting pool.

3:40 They're doing presidential pool swatch colors.

3:45 Only the important stuff for Donald Trump in DC.

3:50 Only the important stuff.

3:51 Steve, your thoughts, please.

3:55 If I can say, can I if I could say I I think it's going to look fantastic.

4:01 really.

4:01 I think on a clear blue sky day, it's going to brighten the whole area.

4:09 Oh, yeah.

4:10 It's um I I wonder when you look at some of the leaders of the Democratic party.

4:25 Mhm.

4:25 If you if you look at politics in general, even more broadly, uh Susan Collins,

4:30 did you see the video of Susan Collins with the sneakers unpacking

4:34 her sneakers for her run again that will take her to age 80?

4:39 Yeah.

4:39 Did you Did you see that?

4:41 Yeah.

4:41 I'm running again.

4:44 I'm running again.

4:47 Um these people are like so out of touch,

4:54 so completely I think estranged from the mood of the country.

5:03 And and I don't think I'm an outlier.

5:07 And I I don't think Democrats can win without my cohort of voter,

5:17 but whatever Trump builds, ballroom, arch, want it knocked down.

5:28 He's not he's not keeping a$400 million plane.

5:34 I mean, if the if the Democratic Party doesn't understand

5:37 that, it's not going to be able to hold itself together.

5:42 It's just it's just it's just not.

5:44 And so, we're we're going to talk for uh in a in a moment,

5:47 we're going to we're going to get into with with Jose Alvarez.

5:51 We're going to be talking about these ICE

5:53 detention facilities and and what's going on, you know,

5:58 and one of one of the things politically I I

6:01 find very frustrating is the uh argument about abolishing ICE

6:12 and the inability for serious people to articulate in clear language.

6:23 What has to happen regarding a rogue agency?

6:30 Obviously, the country needs to have a border security agency.

6:33 In fact, I think it should be called the US Border Security Agency, right?

6:39 Because ICE as an organization shouldn't exist outside

6:44 of the plaques on the walls at the Holocaust Museum

6:49 and the Museum of Tolerance and all the other

6:52 places and the places where we memorialize what they did.

6:58 Mhm.

6:57 Right.

6:57 Disbanded, gone.

7:01 And this matters because every agent who went through 47 days

7:05 of training on January 20th to 2029 loses their badge, loses their weapon.

7:15 Review process.

7:18 Greg Bevino in a world with consequences.

7:22 He wore his SS coat, border patrol uniform,

7:26 unaccountable paramilitary with masks on, indiscriminately drawing weapons.

7:34 Well, that's death penalty.

7:38 That organization can't be saved.

7:42 The function must exist.

7:47 There has to be a federal agency that that's

7:51 capable of doing the requirements of border protection,

7:58 but not in that uniform.

8:01 Not with that name.

8:04 Right?

8:04 There's this American predelection.

8:06 You go you go through Canadian border security, right?

8:10 The the the airport screeners don't have badges on.

8:15 They're not agents.

8:16 Nope.

8:18 No.

8:19 Right.

8:19 And and that doesn't mean that they're

8:21 disrespected or they're or they're less than.

8:26 But this American fetish that every person who works for the government

8:30 comes into contact with it has to have a badge and a gun.

8:34 No.

8:37 So, so we're going to have to have some

8:38 difficult We're going to have to have some difficult conversations.

8:42 What one of the things that I'm proud that we did at the Save America movement

8:46 is our very first pieces of advertising were

8:50 aimed at prison guards at private prison facilities,

8:54 reminding them that history is judging and watching

8:57 and that there are no secret corners in these facilities.

9:01 That everything that happens there will

9:03 become known and there will be accountability.

9:06 There will be accountability for atrocities that happen

9:10 in facilities over which an American flag

9:14 flies and every act that's occurred there has

9:20 occurred in the name of the American people.

9:23 The ball will bounce a different direction.

9:29 Mhm.

9:29 And so we have opposed all of this as a group.

9:34 We also communicated to as this ad is showing

9:38 the Marines who were deployed to Los Angeles very early.

9:42 We were the first group that talked about

9:43 people's constitutional obligations and not not following illegal orders.

9:49 We're going to get into a conversation here uh

9:52 and I'll let you inter introduce uh who's a team,

9:55 but we're going to get into a conversation here about these private prisons.

10:00 You have you have Thood Marshall Jr.

10:02 is on the board of the private prisoner.

10:04 Mhm.

10:05 Core civic, right?

10:06 Core civic, right?

10:09 You you look at the you look at the board, right?

10:13 These are all upstanding members of society.

10:17 One of one of them has a has a real fashion template,

10:20 someone I know, a former C uh senior executive at GE, right?

10:28 No doubt the diversity hire on the board for the private prison, right?

10:34 You need a need a millennial woman.

10:41 Yeah.

10:40 Right.

10:40 For the private prison.

10:43 Yeah.

10:43 Right.

10:43 All you have to do is share complete lack of values with everyone else.

10:48 Right.

10:48 We even got Then Marshall's son.

10:50 Holy[ __] You know, it's I mean I can I

10:55 say I think I think we should send Durgen Marshall Jr.

11:00 Yeah.

10:59 Robert Kennedy Jr.

11:00 and and Megan McCain should all go live

11:02 in a[ __] treehouse with one another in Costa Rica.

11:06 Holy[ __] That might be too good for them.

11:10 I just got back from Costa Rica.

11:11 It's a beautiful place, man.

11:13 A little alligator Alcatraz or Cal City maybe.

11:15 And you know, you you bring up a couple

11:17 of great points and before we get to Jose,

11:19 incredible article uh out of the Guardian and Jose

11:22 Oliver is going to join us in just a second.

11:24 Thanks for teeing that up.

11:26 You know, the cost of what ICE is.

11:28 They they are $150 billion fully funded organization.

11:32 Uh the cost, you know, minimally of this pool,

11:35 this joke of a pool where Donald Trump just embarrassed America again yesterday,

11:40 calling a reporter a[ __] and telling everybody he's going to nuke her in.

11:43 That's another 2 and 12 to 3 million.

11:45 And a report came out this week that said, if I'm not mistaken,

11:49 that your debt, the United States of America's

11:52 debt load is in around 4041 trillion dollars.

11:56 And for the first time in your great country's uh financial history,

12:02 uh it is more than your GDP for the first time, right?

12:05 And that's that is to me, you know,

12:08 when you talk about the ballroom, there you go.

12:10 Dead hits worrying.

12:12 Yeah, it's worrying when your debt outpaces your GDP.

12:15 It's worrying.

12:15 It's a disaster.

12:16 And you've got the Iran war that's going on.

12:18 You've got a a billion dollar request

12:20 for more taxpayer money for a[ __] ridiculous ballroom.

12:24 Uh which is just moral insanity to me.

12:27 Complete irresponsibility.

12:29 But let's get to the ice stuck because

12:31 not only do they have enough money to burn,

12:33 they're contracting apparently according to this incredible article

12:37 uh by the Guardian and our next guest

12:39 contracting people paying more money contracting people

12:43 to torture children around the United States of America.

12:47 The Guardian article to encourage everybody to go and read.

12:50 Uh and the gentleman as we see here ice track down

12:54 undocumented children um under the guise of safety and wellness checks.

12:58 It's torture.

12:59 It's abuse.

13:00 It is what you and your people uh at the Save America movement

13:04 have been targeting with these observers in these liberty vans for some time.

13:08 Uh yeah, I want to show the Liberty Van specifically in Cal City.

13:12 Mike, if we can.

13:13 Um if we have that video, this is you you've been on this for a long time.

13:17 And the Save America movement has done just an incredible job uh

13:20 of do not just documenting but showing people where these incredibly hot,

13:25 disgusting detention centers are where ICE,

13:28 the United States of America and the Trump regime.

13:30 There's your Liberty van, your observer van.

13:32 This is such a beautiful enterprise and exercise

13:34 that the Save America movements put together.

13:37 Uh and someone who went there and someone

13:39 who documented this joins us now from the Guardian.

13:42 Uh please welcome Mr.

13:44 Jose Oliver.

13:45 Am I saying your name right, Jose?

13:46 Did I get it?

13:48 Yeah.

13:48 Yeah, that's that's that's uh pretty accurate.

13:50 Yes, it's uh I'm from Mexico City and so I I always say Oliviveris with books.

13:56 So, yeah, absolutely.

13:57 Okay, good.

13:58 Listen, if if I if I screw it up, correct me.

14:00 I I speak uh unito Spanish and and I have accents,

14:05 but uh just brilliant reporting.

14:08 Um Jose, we we were alerted to this story and you know,

14:11 it's it's funny that you're here.

14:12 It's not funny.

14:13 It's it's fortuitous because we call this show dead air.

14:16 It's information that has been probably widely circulated.

14:19 No one's willing to report on it.

14:21 But your bombshell report in the Guardian,

14:23 how did you come to put this together?

14:25 And walk us through a little bit of it.

14:27 I know Steve and I are going to have some questions.

14:29 Just fascinating, disgusting uh and and and truly uh a stain on America.

14:37 Well, thank you so much.

14:38 Thanks for for for having me and for for your interest in this report.

14:41 Um so so what's been interesting to to see

14:43 how uh ICE has really transformed within the past uh you know year year

14:47 and a half since the Trump administration took took power.

14:51 And what we've seen is we've seen the Trump

14:52 administration kind of take on these very right-wing uh

14:56 uh conspiracy theories and and talking points that u

14:59 you know have been disproven time and time again.

15:02 uh and they're, you know,

15:04 putting into motion certain policies or certain actions uh in order to kind

15:08 of uh follow through on on on these supposed conspiracy theories, right?

15:12 So, um you know, under the Biden administration,

15:14 there was uh a report that came out from the Inspector

15:17 General's office uh from the Department of Homeland Security,

15:20 um saying that ICE was unable to track

15:23 hundreds of thousands of uh immigrant children.

15:25 These are children who uh came to the US requested asylum at the US border uh

15:30 who came alone you know under 18 uh

15:32 unaccompanied you know children and uh this report

15:36 from from the inspector general's office said

15:38 that ICE was unable to track you know thousands

15:40 of of these kids but if you actually

15:42 read the report you'll see that the inspector

15:44 general is saying well this is like

15:46 a logistical question right there uh isn't doesn't

15:48 seem to be much communication between different agencies

15:51 uh a lot of the problems that we're seeing with ICE is just because there aren't

15:55 enough officials who are physically documenting down addresses

15:58 for for the children that that uh uh

16:01 are requesting asylum in in the United States.

16:03 Um but the Trump administration and and Trump allies

16:06 have kind of taken that report and run with it.

16:09 And they're saying the Biden administration,

16:11 they're accusing the Biden administration of uh uh

16:14 losing uh hundreds of thousands of immigrant kids,

16:16 of thousands of immigrant immigrant kids being, you know, going missing, right?

16:20 uh when in reality the families know where these kids are,

16:23 the courts know where they are,

16:24 and the main agency that is in charge of uh unaccompanied immigrant children,

16:29 the office of uh refugee resettlement, ORR,

16:32 they know perfectly well where where these kids are at, right?

16:35 Uh but the Trump administration has used this conspiracy theor

16:38 theory saying that uh the US government lost or there are,

16:42 you know, thousands of kids missing and saying, well,

16:44 these kids are being trafficked uh they're being exploited.

16:47 Uh they're in danger.

16:49 Um and so last year what we discovered is that the uh Trump

16:52 administration and ICE uh they began

16:54 these new operations to conduct these so-called wellness

16:57 checks uh just to make sure that the kids are okay that to make

17:00 sure that the kids are are going to school that they're accounted for.

17:03 Uh but if you actually read the operational

17:04 documents uh that ICE has for these operations.

17:08 uh they're very much doing these operations

17:09 with a view of either um deporting the children

17:12 or deporting the parents uh putting them in in detention

17:15 and and then deporting them um or uh

17:19 uh you know submitting some sort of criminal

17:20 charges against uh the children or or the parents

17:23 right in order to uh continue with this mass

17:26 deportation uh campaign by by the Trump administration.

17:29 Um, and so what we discovered just just uh with this story

17:32 with with the Guardian is that uh to conduct these so-called wellness checks,

17:37 uh the Trump administration and ICE,

17:39 uh they've hired a a longtime very controversial

17:43 uh security company to conduct these wellness checks.

17:45 Um but the security company uh they were

17:47 implicated in the family separation crisis in 2017 2018.

17:51 Uh they they're being actively sued in federal courts right now

17:55 uh for alleged torture for their involvement in the family separation crisis.

17:59 Uh and now they've received this contract.

18:01 We don't know exactly how much money they're getting paid.

18:03 Uh but they've received this this you know what I'm assuming to be

18:07 uh you know multi-million dollar contract

18:09 uh to conduct these so-called wellness checks.

18:11 But in reality now we know due to the operational documents

18:14 with ICE that a lot of these wellness checks are being performed

18:18 with the view of potentially uh arresting and filing criminal charges

18:21 against the children and their sponsors uh and and eventually deporting them.

18:28 So it's a is it fair to say it's a Trojan horse?

18:32 I I think I think so.

18:33 You know people in the immigration world uh would argue that right?

18:36 I mean we have seen a number of these wellness checks already

18:38 uh uh taken place and uh whenever this happens the children are terrified.

18:43 I mean you know obviously children who are you

18:46 know maybe maybe young or or maybe in their teens

18:49 they're not blind to what's happening in the news

18:51 right they're seeing what ICE is doing on the streets.

18:53 They're seeing the shootings that are taking

18:55 place in in in Minneapolis for example.

18:57 Um and so if you get an ICE agent at your door

19:00 or or an ICE officer at your door uh that's a terrifying thing right.

19:04 Um and they have arrested a number of sponsors and a number

19:06 of of children and have separated these families now uh who are you know

19:10 continuing with their immigration process uh

19:12 as part of these wellness checks operations

19:14 right and so I'm sure maybe they have found some certain cases in which

19:19 uh you know they found that maybe children's lives are at risk

19:21 with these wellness operations um but it seems more so that it's just a tactic

19:25 to scare children to convince them to self-epport uh or to just kind

19:30 of conduct these operations uh you know

19:32 immigration enforcement and deportation operations by themselves.

19:35 What What's it like for Jose Alivarez to report this story?

19:39 What are your interactions like with ICE officials when you call

19:44 and you ask them for comment or at the Department of Homeland Security?

19:49 Are they professional?

19:51 Are they respectful?

19:52 What what what goes down when you reach out and say,

19:56 "I got some questions that I'd like you to answer."

20:01 Well, it's it's funny, right?

20:01 because uh as an investigative journalist, you know,

20:03 I'm always trying to um um I'm always trying to to have

20:07 sources within uh the Department of Homeland Security who are uh you know,

20:10 willing to share information with me or insights uh or or or just

20:14 information about what exactly is happening

20:15 within the Department of Homeland Security.

20:17 Um and I have sources within the agency who are very respectful,

20:21 who are very disturbed at what's happening uh

20:23 uh under the Trump administration and who are,

20:25 you know, speaking out and sharing information

20:27 that is very valuable for the public to hear.

20:29 Um, however, I think what's interesting to note is that whenever

20:32 we publish a hard-hitting investigation like the one that we published,

20:35 um, the Department of Homeland Security, they'll either do two things.

20:38 They'll either, uh, just ignore ignore uh, ignore us flat out,

20:42 uh, uh, which has been happening, uh, quite quite quite often.

20:45 uh or uh what they will do is they will um you know kind

20:49 of give us these very interesting um statements

20:52 you know with with certain words that are

20:53 in all caps and and kind of really emphasizing the point and uh at times

20:57 calling us fake news or uh I remember you know last year when when Trisha

21:00 Mclofflin was still within the Department of Homeland

21:02 Security uh she went on television uh

21:04 and and said that one of the stories that I had did was you know

21:07 had done was fake news and and all this even even though uh uh what

21:11 we had reported was very much accurate

21:13 and actually had come from the agency itself.

21:15 self, right?

21:15 And so, um, what we've seen is this kind of change in tenor under

21:19 the Trump administration in which they are

21:21 extremely aggressive when it comes to the press.

21:23 They're very, uh, uh, aggressive and and and sometimes they'll just put

21:26 forward these statements that are, um, you know,

21:29 very revealing as to exactly how they're thinking about,

21:32 uh, immigration enforcement,

21:33 how they're thinking about their operations nationwide.

21:36 Um, and and it's it's it's reached a point where it's uh,

21:38 some sometimes it can be a little bit a little

21:40 bit offputting by the way that they communicate with the press.

21:42 Do you have an example?

21:44 Yeah, of course.

21:45 I mean, I think what's interesting is is sometimes, you know,

21:47 you'll pose a question to to the Department

21:49 of Homeland Security and and you'll say,

21:50 "Hey, you know, this is the reporting that we've found." Uh,

21:53 I've re, you know, for example, last year I I I did a story about how the FBI

21:57 was actively investigating an immigration detention

22:00 center for uh alleged drug smuggling, right?

22:03 The FBI found that uh uh a number of uh core civic guards,

22:08 you know, guards that were working for Core Civic, which you know,

22:10 this private prison company that you just mentioned,

22:12 uh they were involved in smuggling fentinyl

22:15 and smuggling methamphetamine and smuggling drugs into this facility.

22:19 Uh and people were dying of overdoses inside this facility, right?

22:22 Um, and so what we reported was that not only

22:25 was this happening in one section of of the jail,

22:27 uh, but in the immigration detention uh section of it, which is run by ICE,

22:32 uh, I received very credible reports from sources uh

22:35 that they had found drugs in there that that uh

22:37 guards were being implicated in smuggling drugs

22:39 into the immigration into the ICE portion of this jail.

22:43 Uh, and when I posed this question to the Department of Homeland Security,

22:45 they very much, you know, tried to rip my uh my questions apart.

22:48 They called, you know, they said that what what I was promoting was fake news,

22:51 that any any sort of reports about uh any sort

22:54 of uh drug smuggling happening in this facility was uh completely false,

22:59 even though the FBI was actively investigating

23:02 the core civic guards uh that are being hired

23:04 that are being contracted by uh the Department

23:06 of Homeland Security to run these these facilities, right?

23:09 And so, um that was a really interesting kind of kind of situation, right?

23:12 Uh months prior Trisha Mclofflin had gone on PBS and they said,

23:16 "Hey, you know, the Guardian reported this story.

23:18 what do you make of it?

23:18 And then, you know, she tore it apart and said, "Oh, this is fake news.

23:21 Fake news." When in reality, the story that we had done uh uh was

23:25 based on data that ICE itself had published, right?

23:28 And so, we're seeing uh a lot

23:29 of contradictions with within the Department of Homeland

23:31 Security when they're uh uh when it

23:33 comes to their their public posturing, right?

23:35 Uh uh it's it's really interesting, right?

23:37 will maybe release a report or release some information

23:40 or release some data and then when we take

23:42 that data and analyze it and report it out

23:44 to the public and then go to them for comments,

23:46 they say, "Oh, no, no, that's fake news.

23:48 That's fake news.

23:48 How dare you report something like this?

23:50 You are anti-law enforcement." You know,

23:52 I think uh what was interesting about this story that we

23:54 published is that um uh you know, we we we said,

23:56 "Hey, you know, there's a bunch of immigration attorneys who are concerned uh

24:00 that these children who are are

24:01 being targeted in these wellness check operations.

24:03 They're concerned that that you know,

24:05 these are being done with with uh the view of of deportation."

24:08 Uh and and obviously their statement

24:10 was very very interesting because they said,

24:12 "Oh, that's an anti-law enforcement claim

24:14 uh and we completely reject it." Right?

24:16 It's just it's it's been a very interesting

24:18 uh relationship that's been evolving under the Trump administration.

24:21 now uh and and the Department of Homeland Security.

24:24 But have you been accused of wanting Iran to have a nuke?

24:27 There's the question.

24:29 Not not quite yet.

24:30 Not quite yet.

24:31 Maybe maybe the next time I I fly into the US, they'll they'll you know,

24:34 CBP will stop me or something and accuse me of that, but not not not quite yet.

24:37 Yeah.

24:38 Um, when you uh when you talk to ICE officials now that Christy Gnome has gone,

24:47 what is going on inside at the top?

24:52 Is there less chaos?

24:56 Is there more coherence,

24:59 more competence at trying to do whatever it is they're they're trying to do?

25:07 Do you have any color about the change

25:09 in in culture that she and Luendowski have deported?

25:16 I I think it's it's very interesting to see how within the past

25:19 year the culture inside the Department

25:20 of Homeland Security has transitioned, right?

25:22 Um so so what's been interesting to see is is

25:25 that um you know a sources and the people that I

25:28 speak with sometimes they are the you know what you could

25:30 be you know what you could call the foot soldiers, right?

25:32 they are the agents, they are the officers um around the country who are

25:36 uh involved in these in these sorts of operations, right?

25:39 Um and and throughout the last year uh a lot of people who

25:42 were working in ICE who had maybe been there under the Biden administration

25:46 and and maybe maybe previously uh they were so upset and so angry

25:50 at the demands that that the Department

25:52 of Homeland Security was was putting on them, right?

25:54 Um I think you'll remember that last year

25:56 uh Steven Miller and and and Christine Gnome, they uh um set a quota, right?

26:01 They said, you know, you you know,

26:02 ICE nationwide has to arrest 3,000 immigrants in in every single day so that we

26:07 can reach the 1 million mark of of deportations by by uh the the one-year mark.

26:12 Um, and that was really interesting because uh ICE officers were demoralized,

26:17 they were worked to the bone, uh they were exhausted,

26:20 they were having to work days upon days upon days with no

26:23 breaks just to meet this quota of 3,000 arrests per day.

26:26 Um, and so people within the agency, they they grew angrier and angrier.

26:30 Um, and a lot of people who uh maybe were not necessarily very happy

26:35 with with this uh uh this mass deportation

26:38 campaign that the Trump administration is putting forward.

26:40 They were either leaving the agency or taking

26:42 early retirement or finding jobs elsewhere just

26:45 because they were uh so demoralized and so

26:47 upset about what was happening in inside.

26:49 However, a lot of the people who remained inside ICE or who

26:52 have been hired uh by by ICE by the Department of Homeland Security,

26:57 a lot of them are uh very much loyalists who

27:00 uh believe in in in the project that that the Trump

27:02 administration is trying to uh put forward with these mass

27:05 deportations uh uh and the mass deportation campaign.

27:08 Um, but I think what's been interesting was was seeing how um after Minneapolis,

27:14 it really did kind of mark a bit of a a before and after when it came

27:16 to the Trump administration's immigration enforcement policies.

27:19 Obviously, uh we saw Christine Nome leave leave the department.

27:22 Um we we've seen uh you know

27:24 internal shifts within within the department as well.

27:27 Um but I think a lot of it was uh not necessarily out of uh any sort of um

27:32 um you know humanitarian view of oh you know

27:35 maybe what we're doing is a little too intense.

27:37 maybe we shouldn't be treating uh uh immigrants in in our country this way.

27:40 Uh but it was more so I think a question of public perception, right?

27:43 I think uh uh the Department of Homeland

27:45 Security and ICE in particular um especially after Minneapolis,

27:48 especially after uh the shooting of Renee Good and the shooting of Alex Prey,

27:52 uh they became, you know, extremely unpopular agencies.

27:55 You know, uh Border Patrol, ICE,

27:57 and the department itself, uh became extremely extremely unpopular.

28:01 Um, and so I think a lot of the operations that they're continuing with now,

28:05 it's not to say that things have kind of lessened.

28:07 I think I think ICE is continuing with with its operations with its

28:10 um arrest operations and really trying

28:12 to fulfill this uh mass deportation campaign.

28:15 Uh, we've seen kind of the rhetoric and the scale

28:17 of it maybe maybe kind of tone down a little

28:19 bit just because of the public perception that that uh

28:23 existed in the United States towards um these these federal agencies.

28:27 And so now what we've seen is we're seeing very much um these kind of almost

28:31 back channel ways of fulfilling this mass deportation

28:34 uh uh uh program right by the Trump administration.

28:37 So a lot of it is taking place in the courts.

28:39 Um maybe they're they're uh uh you know denying or or removing

28:44 certain legal protections that a lot of immigrants who were here legally,

28:47 people with GPS status, people with Dhaka status, etc.

28:50 We're seeing them targeted now.

28:52 um and it's being justified in ways that are

28:55 uh quite interesting because you know they they'll be

28:57 able to kind of do these uh uh legal

28:59 and and mental gymnastics to justify these types of operations.

29:03 So even though we're not seeing you know the these you know boots

29:05 on the ground uh really heavy-handed enforcement tactics like we saw in Chicago,

29:10 like we saw in in like we saw in Minneapolis,

29:12 um a lot of these tactics now are continuing,

29:14 but they're I think a little bit more subtle just

29:17 precisely because of this public perception that these agencies have now.

29:21 any any sense that inside the agency of wow,

29:31 we're going to be dealing with the consequences

29:33 of what went on here for a long long time.

29:38 Any of the agents feel that?

29:41 I I I think you know some of the folks who I

29:43 have spoken with who who work uh uh um in the agency

29:47 or who have worked in the agency or who have recently retired

29:50 from from the agency um have expressed that to me you know uh they

29:54 maybe you know there's there's one source in particular who was actually

29:58 a very kind person and and you know he he you know there

30:02 was a a really definitive moment for him when when uh you

30:04 know he he worked on on a deportation case that was just devastating.

30:09 you know, it it was this this family member who

30:11 uh was ripped apart from his family and and and deported.

30:14 Um and it was one of those moments for for this source who that it

30:17 was kind of a wakeup call and saying what like what the hell am I doing?

30:20 You know, how how I I'm I'm separating families.

30:22 I'm uh you know, I have this man weeping in the back

30:24 of my car because he's never going to see his family again.

30:26 What what exactly am I doing?

30:28 Um and so it's interesting because because you

30:30 know there are people who are on the ground

30:32 who maybe are no longer with the agency

30:34 who maybe have quit or have found new jobs

30:36 or who have retired um who did carry some

30:38 of that uh uh uh perspective and and to say

30:42 okay hold on the implications of what we're

30:44 doing are going to last for a long time.

30:45 Um, but I think what what uh is going to happen is

30:48 we're going to see a lot of the opposition uh to a lot

30:52 of these these policy decisions or or actions um you know uh take place

30:57 and and and kind of be you know the battles taking place in federal courts.

31:02 uh we're seeing so many lawsuits take place

31:03 and so many lawsuits just continuing uh against

31:06 the Trump administration against the Department of Homeland

31:08 Security uh in you know in which we

31:10 have immigration attorneys or civil rights attorneys uh

31:13 suing the the the agencies or the private

31:15 prison companies or the private security companies involved

31:18 in in uh carrying out the mass deportation campaigns.

31:22 Um we're seeing the you know these cases play out in federal courts

31:25 and those federal cases as we know might take years and years to to resolve.

31:29 Um, and so it's it's kind of unclear whether uh the the Department

31:33 of Homeland Security uh and the top levels of the the Department

31:35 of Homeland Security are are thinking about this in the long term

31:38 or if they're maybe just kind of throwing everything at the wall,

31:42 seeing what sticks and then, you know,

31:43 the courts will deal with it in in years to come.

31:46 Right.

31:46 It's it's very unclear.

31:48 Not very sure exactly uh what's going on mentally in order to to kind of justify

31:52 these these sorts of actions within uh the top

31:55 layers of the the Department of Homeland Security.

31:58 Well, you know, it's interesting listening to you talk about this.

32:03 You have such equinimity in terms of the people that you

32:10 have to interact with who lie to you on a constant basis,

32:14 who abuse you on a constant basis.

32:17 that on each transaction you give them another chance to redeem themselves

32:24 and to tell you the truth which is which is never never taken.

32:29 But uh one of the things that a great reporter has to be able

32:34 to do is have the discipline to maintain

32:37 that balance that neutrality not to become angry.

32:42 We would be terrible[ __] reporters, Dean.

32:46 This will be we'd be we'd be terrible at it with uh with these folks.

32:52 But um when you um when you when you think about all of this right now,

32:59 do do the people in the agency get that they are responsible uh for setting

33:10 in motion what has become a political catastrophe

33:15 for Trump that's taken him down to 30%.

33:18 It's you guys that it was Pavino.

33:21 it was Louendowski, that it was Christy Nate Gnome,

33:25 that it was that it was the ice and insanity on the streets.

33:29 Do do people get that?

33:32 It's it's very hard to tell.

33:33 It's very hard to tell.

33:34 And I think I think for maybe some people,

33:37 especially the the the the top ranking uh leaders, you know,

33:41 within the department the Department of Homeland Security,

33:43 um there's been very little repercussions that that they've faced, right?

33:46 There's been very little consequences that they've faced

33:49 for for a lot of these the guy

33:51 that shot Cole Good uh is back on duty in a different city.

33:55 Quietly went back to work last week.

33:56 To your point, Jose, I did not mean to interrupt you.

33:59 Continue, though.

34:00 No, no, no, no, no.

34:00 That that's that's that's a great point.

34:02 I mean, and and that's exactly what we're seeing, right?

34:04 We're seeing um um how even when these cases are taken to federal courts,

34:08 we're seeing these federal courts uh uh these federal judges give orders, right?

34:13 And I mean, this is, you know, the basic, you know,

34:16 uh question when it comes to the US Constitution, right?

34:18 is, you know, the the the the separation of powers, right?

34:21 You have the judiciary that uh is is able to to make decisions

34:24 and and and rule uh on on certain things that are illegal or not illegal.

34:28 And we've seen throughout the Trump administration,

34:30 the second Trump administration,

34:32 how uh they've just completely ignored a lot of a lot of judicial orders,

34:36 a lot of federal court orders.

34:38 Um they're calling publicly in a lot of the statements that I receive,

34:41 uh they're saying that some of these federal judges are activist judges, right?

34:45 that that um you know they're going against

34:47 the will of America or whatever they want to say.

34:48 Um and so it's really interesting because um you know it's it's they're just

34:53 kind of plowing through and continuing

34:54 with these operations um and and whether they

34:58 ignore court orders or federal judge orders or uh whether they get sued

35:02 in court or uh you know whether

35:04 they see just like really horrendous things happening,

35:07 families being ripped apart, the shooting of Renee Good,

35:09 the shooting of Alex Prey.

35:10 When they're seeing these things happen,

35:12 there doesn't seem to be any consequences.

35:14 there doesn't seem to be any repercussions.

35:15 Uh, a lot of it is just, you know, kind of how the system has been established

35:19 and and the way that it's structured, right?

35:22 Um, but I think because we're seeing a lack of consequences

35:24 for a lot of these really um intense and and horrific actions,

35:28 um, I I think I don't know.

35:30 I mean, it's it's it's it's it'd be

35:32 a good question to to to pose to them, right?

35:34 whether they uh really see what they're doing.

35:36 But I think just just the lack of accountability,

35:38 the lack of uh oversight to the lack of any sort of consequences um um

35:43 might be a a a question of uh of of just kind of um yeah,

35:47 just just a comment to to say, hey, you know,

35:50 there's going to be some push back for your actions,

35:52 but you know, keep keep doing what you're doing, right?

35:54 And so I think there needs to be a significant shift in this country

35:58 uh uh when it comes to a lot of these um these actions

36:00 and these operations by the Trump

36:02 administration especially if we haven't seen any

36:04 sort of real consequences for for these you know uh uh abuses right

36:10 great point uh last question I would ask you Jose you

36:13 know you talked about you know the softening of the reputation

36:17 due to the political peril this has put Donald Trump

36:21 in as Steve points out I think he's around 31%%.

36:24 Are you telling me that changing it from the uh

36:28 from ICE to nice isn't going to work?

36:31 Is that what you're saying?

36:33 Is that what you're saying?

36:34 I think I think a new acronym is is is is always great,

36:37 but I think if the um you know,

36:38 the structure that has existed since ICE was created, you know, 20ome years ago,

36:43 uh uh I think just due to the structure that that and how it exists

36:46 and um the certain tactics that they've

36:49 been allowed to carry out for for decades,

36:51 um I think that kind of speaks more to it.

36:53 But, um, you know, if they want to change the acronym, you know,

36:56 I'll go back and and and maybe uh uh see if

36:58 my editors can can can change the acronym in the stories.

37:00 But that's that's about as much.

37:03 Jose, I don't think there's an acronym you could change ICE to that'll

37:06 erase the the the branded images of executing Alex pretty Renee Nicole.

37:12 Good.

37:13 the uh yanking of children and diapers out of their homes,

37:17 the tens of thousands of people who've been physically,

37:20 mentally, and emotionally abused and the accounts of that.

37:24 There's no acronym to your point and and I

37:26 just want to thank you for your incredible reporting.

37:29 Uh you know, you're you're absolutely um steely

37:33 in what you do and the way and you know, Steve points out your equinimity.

37:37 I mean, for you to have the the political center and and also the, you know,

37:41 the character and the ability and the emotional quotient to be able to do

37:44 the work that you do and do such a good job of it.

37:46 Uh, well done, my friend.

37:48 It was just a pleasure to talk to you today.

37:51 Uh, Dean, Steve, thank you.

37:52 Thank you both so much.

37:52 I really appreciate it.

37:53 Thank you for the kind words and for for your interest in in in this reporting.

37:56 And, you know, we're just going to we're just going to continue reporting.

37:59 And even if the Trump administration doesn't like it,

38:01 I think it's it's it's what we have to do.

38:02 So, really really appreciate you both.

38:04 Thank you.

38:04 Yeah.

38:05 Thank you, Jose Olivaris.

38:06 I hope I got your name right from the Guardian.

38:08 Incredible uh report about the torture and abuse

38:11 and the contracting of said torture and abuse.

38:13 Go read it anywhere you see Jose Olivaris.

38:15 Where can people find you, by the way?

38:17 Best place.

38:17 Yeah, I I'm I'm uh I I I write frequently for the Guardian.

38:20 Um uh you can find me on Twitter or X now as it's called uh in Instagram.

38:24 Uh just search my name, Jose Olivareis, and and and I'll be there.

38:28 Thanks, pal.

38:30 Thank you so much.

38:30 Great to see you.

38:31 Jose Olivaris from the Guardian.

38:33 Steve, that is a uh that is a very very very sharp young man, you know,

38:39 and and for him to, as you point out, for him to do the work that he does.

38:45 Um I mean, you know, impressive.

38:48 We live in the sewer just but we live in the sewer in our own home.

38:51 This is this is a man that goes and documents and figures

38:54 it out and goes to Cal City and he talks to the people.

38:57 Uh couldn't imagine it, man.

38:58 Could not imagine it.

39:03 All of this stuff that we talk about twice a week that we spend a fair amount

39:08 of time talking about when we when we when

39:14 we hang out away from being on on air.

39:21 All of it is is incredible.

39:25 in the abuses of of power specifically and this the the idea

39:34 that this would be tolerated in the in the United States and I think

39:44 it's the fundamental default line in our politics because I'm not what what's

39:51 what is what is the name for someone like me in American politics.

39:57 I was a Republican for 29 years.

40:00 I've been a Democrat for 5 years.

40:03 Um I was for gay marriage three years before Barack Obama was at least.

40:12 Um, I do not believe we can move on from from any of this.

40:26 It It's unacceptable, right?

40:29 At the at the deepest conceivable level.

40:33 So, I watched Renee Good get murdered on live television,

40:41 and I appreciate a lot of what Keith Ellison,

40:46 the attorney general of Minnesota, has done,

40:49 but his duty requires him to bring a murder charge against a federal agent.

40:58 And there's going to be a lot of duty that is required.

41:05 That's tough of members of Congress or governors

41:09 when it comes to dealing with the lawlessness, dealing with the corruption,

41:15 finding out what happened in this period of insanity

41:22 and cracking open uh these facilities and knowing what's going

41:29 on in them is is something that there should be no compromise about.

41:35 They're unacceptable on American soil.

41:38 You had you had nine Democrats, I think it was nine,

41:45 might have been a Republican or two, who had the wisdom to vote against

41:49 the creation of the Department of Homeland Security.

41:53 And and the Department of Homeland Security needs to be broken up.

41:57 It's a it's a danger to the American people.

42:02 Uh it's a it's an outofcontrol bureaucracy.

42:07 It's broken a lot of the individual agencies who've become part of the behemoth.

42:14 All of these ICE agents with their 47 days of training.

42:18 Thank you for your service as a federal agent.

42:21 Deposit your badge in the blue box,

42:23 your gun in the red one as you uh leave the campus.

42:29 You're done here.

42:31 And there there's a there's a lot of work to be done

42:35 and and it starts with really uh uh iron fist approach and I don't mean revenge.

42:46 I'm against revenge.

42:48 I mean accountability.

42:50 This this outrageousness across the board can

42:54 never happen again in these in these companies.

42:56 And we're gonna get more and more into this, you know,

42:59 with the board of this company, but but Core Civic, right?

43:04 They're in the concentration camp business.

43:06 This is a public company, correct?

43:09 Right.

43:09 That that you know, state pension funds have a piece of.

43:14 Mhm.

43:15 Wild.

43:15 No good.

43:17 No.

43:16 No good.

43:17 And this is this is the last thing I'll say about it is

43:24 I've always been a person who was open to the idea of privatization.

43:32 That being said, there are some core

43:36 functions of government that should never be privatized.

43:40 And and one of those core functions of government that should

43:43 never ever ever be privatized to a contractor is uh incarceration.

43:53 What whatever the cost of incarceration may be, right?

43:59 That's a collective decision in a democracy made by the people of the state,

44:09 right?

44:08 And and we have too many people locked up in America.

44:13 We have we have too many people of a certain skin

44:16 type locked up unfairly against averages and against white skin color.

44:24 We have people who are locked up who coming out are

44:27 more likely to go back than to lead a productive life.

44:34 But whatever the cost is and however many prisons you want to have,

44:39 that's a function of the state,

44:41 not a function of the private company with stock incentives for its executives.

44:49 That's an evil and it should never be tolerated in a democratic society.

44:55 And we're going to we're going to do a lot of work at the Save

44:58 America movement to shine a spotlight on that and to and oppose it.

45:02 And listen, even even friends, people that we admire like Gavin Newsome,

45:08 we have a we have a number of these facilities in California.

45:11 And it's not enough just to play a game online while you have power.

45:19 When you have power, you have to exercise the full weight of your power.

45:25 And and these facilities have to be opposed, right?

45:29 where wherever they are,

45:32 wherever there's a warehouse being proposed to hold a human being after

45:37 a conversion process that followed a corrupted

45:41 contracting process has to be opposed,

45:47 you know, and you bring up a couple of points.

45:50 So well said again, you bring up a couple of points, you know,

45:54 um and if history is our teacher, you call it a concentration camp.

45:57 Nobody knew the depravity until after the war was over, right?

46:03 Nobody knew what was going on until Allied forces rolled

46:07 across Europe and freed Jews and denters from concentration camps.

46:14 Nobody Nobody knew.

46:16 Nobody knew until you got in.

46:17 Nobody knew until you took the roof off.

46:19 Nobody knew until human beings walked in and saw the atrocities themselves.

46:24 And I want everybody to keep in mind too, Steve, if you don't mind.

46:27 Joseé Olivaris just painted a gruesome picture of uh

46:33 basically a contracted group of torture squad[ __] that have

46:37 been contracted by ICE to keep at arms length based

46:41 on a conspiracy theory that these are just wellness checks.

46:45 They're going into their homes and they're ripping children out.

46:48 But we don't know what happens after that.

46:49 We hear spot stories from people like, you know, Dr.

46:53 harass and we hear spot stories from other people that have

46:58 gone into these facilities and talk to women who've been abused,

47:03 children who have been, you know, uh,

47:05 mentally and physically tortured for days with loud televisions,

47:09 very little food, rotten food if that, no medication.

47:12 Like, those are the stories that we're hearing

47:15 and those are the stories that we're allowed to hear.

47:18 We still don't know the extent of those abuses at the hands

47:22 of Donald Trump and his regime that have found a way found

47:26 a way not only to allow this but to enrich their friends

47:29 with these abuses these crimes against humanity

47:33 women from around the world human beings.

47:35 We don't know the extent of that profit.

47:38 But the other thing that we don't understand and we don't know,

47:40 Steve, and this is something that nobody talks about,

47:42 which is why we do this every single week,

47:44 twice a week, because people need to know.

47:47 The other thing that people don't know yet, and it just happened last week,

47:51 is that Donald Trump just got rid of the office,

47:55 gutted it, got rid of the office that it investigates these abuses

48:01 to make it that much more difficult to find out what's going on.

48:05 And you listen, if you're if if we get to a point where

48:09 the midterms wash out the way we think they're going to wash out,

48:12 we might get that information.

48:14 We might find out the severity of this, but my god, you know,

48:18 I am not looking forward to that day when we start hearing about the real abuses

48:23 that went on in the United States of America at the hands of one Donald J.

48:27 Trump and the Trump regime.

48:30 I'm not looking forward to that.

48:31 I think, you know, it's really I I was like you triggered me to uh

48:39 just like there's so much I want to react to in in in what you said.

48:43 Um we have to oppose these ideas of of cruelty that that you've seen.

49:00 uh perpetrated and and at the Safe America movement,

49:04 we we've done a lot of of good work in this in this space.

49:11 If there's if there's one thing that I'm proud about politically was

49:15 that at a time when everyone was saying the issue was affordability,

49:20 I was saying no, this is the issue and this is this is the issue, right?

49:26 The the human rights, right?

49:28 the human dignity that that that has to be that has to be opposed.

49:33 Now, here's where we've fallen short.

49:38 We we have been unable to focus like a laser a critical mass of people,

49:46 athletes, uh business leaders, religious leaders, political leaders,

49:58 and I'm going to translate it crudely, right?

50:02 to to basically pose the question of what the[ __]

50:05 is going on in that facility paid for by our taxpayers.

50:12 We demand to know and to use every available mechanism legislatively,

50:22 legally, and otherwise to find out, right?

50:26 And this goes to the heart of the government shutdown.

50:32 over ICE, but this should be part of that and should talk about it every day.

50:42 And I and I don't care where it ranks

50:48 on the poll of what the Democratic pollster says.

50:52 What are the top 10 issues?

50:54 There's an urgent moral necessity to talk about this.

50:58 And by the way, the more you talk about it,

51:01 the more important it's going to become in the polls.

51:06 But we don't do this in the United States.

51:14 And in fact, one of the reasons we don't do it is because of a history we

51:21 tend to look away from of terrible abuses

51:27 where there are elements of this that were done.

51:32 And there's a there's a reality about

51:34 the camps which is in Germany and across Europe,

51:41 the Nazi camps, was that Monic was captured in Poland in 1943.

51:50 People knew about the camps.

51:53 People didn't know about the scale of it and there

51:57 was not a critical mass of the population that knew.

52:01 But we knew about the camps.

52:04 We know in the country about what's been going on.

52:11 And we know from stories that there are tales on Thanksgiving of bug

52:18 and insectladen food being dished out after

52:24 the holiday meal trays were taken away.

52:30 where children were emotionally abused with food deprivation.

52:40 And and let me and let me be clear about something.

52:45 I I have no issue and I don't think it's torture to keep an ISIS guy

52:52 awake and disoriented with the lights on right

52:57 for weeks at a time with the music on.

53:02 I don't believe in his physical torture, but I don't think that's torture.

53:08 What What reason conceivably is there beyond

53:12 the cruelty to put these people under any stress.

53:20 Mhm.

53:21 If in fact someone's being deported from the United States,

53:25 it ought to be with dignity because we have a conception in the country,

53:32 we're supposed to at any rate about the value

53:37 of a human being and thus the dignity of that human being.

53:44 Just an appalling an appalling moment that needs opposition.

53:50 fierce, unrelenting opposition.

53:54 Yeah, great roundup, Steve.

53:55 Well said.

53:56 Um, I want to thank everybody for joining us today.

53:59 I want to thank you, Steve, for making time,

54:01 our friends here at the Save America movement.

54:03 None of this is possible.

54:05 And there is no organization like the Save America

54:07 movement that has brought the attention to the abuses,

54:10 the torture, the inhumanity of these detention centers, the inhumanity of ICE,

54:15 the executions of ICE, the beatings, the deportations,

54:20 and the child abuse um of people for committing the crime

54:24 of not being the same color that Donald Trump wants America to be.

54:28 And and I want to thank you for that.

54:30 And I want to encourage everybody to go

54:31 and join the Save America movement right now.

54:33 Right now.

54:34 Please don't don't walk run.

54:36 Uh save America thesaveamemovement.org.

54:39 Please donate.

54:40 They are not only observing,

54:42 they are actively involved in trying to dig up this information,

54:46 trying to hold power to account.

54:48 And this is evil.

54:50 What is what is still going on?

54:52 They can name it anything they want.

54:53 It's not nice.

54:54 It's not ICE.

54:55 These are the secret police, Trump's Gustapo.

54:59 answer to him and they're out to uh they're out to take marginalized America

55:05 away from his whatever the[ __] he thinks he's building in the United States.

55:10 Uh so I would encourage everybody go to the savemovement.org.

55:13 Please donate.

55:14 Please subscribe.

55:16 Uh please do the same thing with the save movement right here on Substack.

55:20 The Save America movement.

55:21 Subscribe if you can hit the Chiron at the top.

55:24 Would encourage everybody to do that.

55:25 Uh they are the only citizen-led organization that holds truth and power.

55:29 Again, we say it all the time in the organization.

55:32 Steve, you're one of the co-founders.

55:33 It's not left versus right.

55:34 It's right versus wrong.

55:36 This is wrong.

55:36 It's why we do this and that's why we do dead air every single week.

55:40 So, please uh if you can give them a sub,

55:42 same thing with the warning at Steve Schmidt right here on Substack.

55:46 Uh he's my moral and political sherpa here

55:49 and I'm happy to call him a friend as well.

55:51 Uh and do the same thing for me.

55:52 Uh deanell.substack.com substaff.com if you get a minute at the end of the day.

55:56 Thanks for doing this, pal.

55:57 You got it.

55:57 Good to see you, Dean.

55:58 Good to see you, too.

55:59 We'll talk to you all soon.

56:00 Stay safe, folks.

56:01 Bye.