Nico Carrillo | Keep Hammering Collective | Episode 192

0:00 Every step I [music] take, I move my feet.

0:02 Every time they tell me stop, I use Every comment,

0:04 hate that makes my fuel get [music] the route my energy and boom.

0:07 I hear them talking saying the way that I move is so reckless.

0:10 That is a part of my mind I've been blessed with.

0:12 Giving my [music] blood so I am relentless.

0:15 This is a Keep Hammering Collective.

0:17 I'm with Now, this is going to be kind of an adventure.

0:20 Nico Carrillo, no?

0:23 Without the yo.

0:24 Nico Carrillo or Without the yo.

0:28 Just o.

0:29 Carrillo.

0:30 Nico Carrillo.

0:35 [laughter] I don't know.

0:35 I'm just going to say Nico.

0:37 Well, you know what?

0:37 For today, we'll Carrillo.

0:39 Okay.

0:42 [laughter] All I know is you are badass at Muay Thai.

0:44 Did I say it right?

0:45 Muay Thai.

0:46 Muay Thai.

0:47 Yeah.

0:47 Yeah.

0:47 So, that's how I know you.

0:49 Just from like clips on Instagram.

0:52 You All I remember is like, oh, this guy Nico,

0:56 he's shredded and he's really good at fighting.

1:00 What else did I miss?

1:01 Um [laughter] Yeah, I think I think that's about that.

1:05 Not There's not much more going for me apart from that.

1:09 Well, yeah, no, you have you have a lot going.

1:12 We're going to talk about it, but um What a great day.

1:15 You are Scottish.

1:18 Yes.

1:19 Probably the maybe the first Scottish person I've ever met.

1:21 Well, I hope I'm happy for that.

1:23 Scotland.

1:24 Yeah, so it's like I've never been there.

1:26 I don't know anything about anything.

1:29 Apart from the movie Braveheart.

1:30 Braveheart and also you guys had kings.

1:34 We've never had kings.

1:35 So, kings are kind of cool like for movies,

1:37 you got to have a It's always good to have a king.

1:40 [snorts] Absolutely.

1:40 We don't have kings over here.

1:41 Yeah, we we've we fought for our freedom in the 1300s.

1:46 Um like Scotland fought for the freedom to, you know,

1:49 be a separate country from England and then one day we just gave it all back

1:54 and now and now we we still have English in Why did we give it back?

1:59 Uh no idea.

2:00 Huh.

2:01 [laughter] No idea.

2:01 After after Mel Gibson fought for your freedom in Braveheart.

2:05 That's it.

2:05 And then we just gave it back.

2:07 Sad.

2:08 I know.

2:09 His sacrifice was for nothing.

2:11 Literally.

2:12 [laughter] Um so, tell me about it.

2:16 How is it over there?

2:16 Like, is there rivalries?

2:18 Like, do you like Conor McGregor?

2:20 Do you like people from Ireland?

2:21 Or do you have rivalries?

2:23 No, we're not not really.

2:25 No.

2:26 Um where I'm from in Glasgow Mhm.

2:29 because of football soccer Mhm.

2:32 those rivalries but it it's not it's not to do with like the actual countries.

2:38 It's it's to do with football.

2:40 Just a club.

2:41 Yeah.

2:41 Yeah.

2:42 Um and it's like kind of like an Irish and Scottish separation.

2:46 I see.

2:46 Uh but out with football, it not at all.

2:50 Okay, gotcha.

2:51 Yeah.

2:51 With football is a massive part of life back home.

2:55 For sure, that's the biggest thing probably.

2:57 Like where I'm from, it's either like you're either Celtic or Rangers.

3:01 Mhm.

3:02 And uh there's a massive debate between the two.

3:05 I see.

3:05 Gotcha.

3:07 Well, how'd you get involved in fighting?

3:09 Uh just by chance, honestly.

3:11 Uh I always played football when I was young.

3:14 Were you good?

3:16 Um I think so.

3:17 I think I think I was good.

3:19 Um I can't kick a ball anymore, so that doesn't say too much.

3:23 kick somebody's head though.

3:24 There's a good uh sort of like ball up there.

3:27 Exactly.

3:29 [laughter] I was always good at kicking something.

3:30 Yeah.

3:31 And then I just I just walked into a gym.

3:34 Uh my friend actually my friend Jazz uh went to a Muay

3:39 Thai class mhm and I always played football with him.

3:41 How old was How old were you at this time?

3:43 15.

3:43 Okay.

3:44 And it just kind of came at a perfect timing.

3:47 I walked into this gym and I fell in love with it.

3:51 Mhm.

3:51 That day that I knew that I wanted to do it for the rest of my life.

3:56 Really?

3:57 That that day I remember that day like it was yesterday.

4:00 Um I remember the smell in the gym.

4:02 I remember all the people.

4:04 There was a certain guy who just had a fight and he was

4:07 icing his shins and to me he was famous and I was like,

4:10 oh, I want to be like that guy and and that was that.

4:12 And from there uh it came at a good

4:14 time because I was kind of getting bored of football.

4:17 And so I think just the timing was good.

4:19 Mhm.

4:19 And I walked into a Muay Thai gym and that was that.

4:22 I absolutely fell in love with it.

4:24 What did you do that first day?

4:25 What did they have you do?

4:27 I don't remember what I done.

4:28 I remember everything else.

4:29 I It was You remember the feeling.

4:31 I remember the feeling and I and I just I remember this this fighter.

4:34 Everybody was like around him because he just

4:36 fought at the weekend and I just remember thinking, oh, this guy's famous.

4:39 I I want to be like this guy.

4:40 He was banged up.

4:41 He was hurt a little bit.

4:42 He was getting attention.

4:43 It's like, oh, tell us about your fight probably.

4:46 Exactly.

4:46 That was exactly it.

4:47 Um and that was it.

4:49 Yeah.

4:50 And from there I was in the gym every day and I was just obsessed immediately.

4:54 I wonder if it's like as a young boy,

4:57 that's like what you think men are supposed to be like.

5:00 Like supposed to fight.

5:01 They're supposed to like be badasses.

5:03 100%.

5:04 Yeah.

5:05 That's always been my thought process,

5:06 but I still thought that that I grew up without a father.

5:10 Mhm.

5:11 But you know, I still had I still thought like that at a young age.

5:15 You know what I mean?

5:16 So.

5:17 Where was your dad?

5:18 Um my dad split up from my mom when I was like five Mhm.

5:25 or six, something like that.

5:27 So, I knew him up until that point and then my dad moved back to Spain.

5:32 Mhm.

5:33 And I I don't know the ins and outs.

5:35 I was too young to to know anything.

5:38 Um you just hear one side of the story.

5:40 Yeah.

5:41 And that was I I went with my mom.

5:43 So, that was always the story that I heard.

5:46 Yeah.

5:46 And then that that was it.

5:47 I never I never had a dad after that.

5:49 Mhm.

5:50 And so, did you have like a male role model in your life at all?

5:54 I actually didn't.

5:55 No.

5:55 You kind of on your own figuring out what it is.

5:58 I was on my own and I grew up in a household full of females.

6:02 I had my mom and two sisters, two older sisters.

6:05 Um I had a big cousin who played a kind of role model,

6:09 but you know, I wouldn't really say like the perfect role model.

6:14 Yeah.

6:14 Yeah.

6:14 Um He's my best friend now,

6:17 but at the time probably wasn't a perfect role model for me.

6:19 So, it's probably something that I am proud of that I got into all

6:25 cuz you know when we played football when we were younger, you know,

6:29 we'd had all the all all my teammates all had their dads

6:33 at the sidelines and I was the only kid that that never had parents there.

6:39 Um and so one thing that I'm proud about is

6:43 that I done all this not because of a male influence.

6:48 I just done it off my own back.

6:50 I decided to do it.

6:51 Mhm.

6:51 So, it's something that I'm I'm proud that I done.

6:54 That is cuz normally it takes like all those kids with their dads there.

6:58 Their dads are kind of pushing them.

6:59 Exactly.

7:00 You can do it.

7:00 You can be got to work harder or whatever.

7:02 You're You're They're kind of setting the standard,

7:05 but you've had to set the standard yourself.

7:08 What what what I mean, how did you do that?

7:11 What was in you that as a young young boy that had this this mindset to be like,

7:17 no, this is what I need to dedicate myself to.

7:21 I think it was number one, it was I was very competitive.

7:26 I loved sports, all sports.

7:27 I loved football.

7:28 I loved boxing.

7:29 I done a lot of boxing when I was younger.

7:30 I just loved being competitive.

7:32 Mhm.

7:33 Whenever [clears throat] it was like sports days in school,

7:34 I was like the try-hard.

7:36 I just loved sports.

7:37 Yeah.

7:38 That was probably one part of it that was just ingrained in my DNA.

7:41 I was competitive.

7:42 The other part was probably the the culture

7:47 of where I was brought up was very rough and very like if it it's like a one-way

7:54 road and it's not a good road to go down.

7:58 And I seen the effect it had on the older

8:00 generation and at a young age I could see this.

8:03 And so I kind of thought that if I remain

8:08 here and do the same things that they've always done,

8:10 this is going to be the path for me also.

8:12 Yeah.

8:13 So, at a young age I was wise enough to just

8:16 kind of know that I had to go another way.

8:20 Mhm.

8:20 Yeah, that was that's insightful.

8:22 Um so you started training every Was every day you started training or Yeah,

8:28 and then what happened there?

8:30 What How was that progression?

8:31 When did you have [snorts] a fight?

8:33 Yeah, so I actually had my first fight two months after I walked in the gym.

8:39 Mhm.

8:40 And it was like amateur.

8:42 Uh we call it junior.

8:44 So, it's like under 16.

8:45 So, you're wearing the full pads, etc.

8:48 And I got put into the Scottish Open,

8:50 which was a a Scottish Muay Thai tournament

8:52 and it was kind of like last man standing.

8:54 So, you go into like a weight category and if you win the fight,

8:59 you get put through to the next and you just have a bunch of fights that day.

9:02 I had a bunch of fights that day and I and I won

9:03 all the fights and and then I became the a Scottish junior champion.

9:08 Wow.

9:08 On my first ever fights.

9:09 After two months.

9:10 Yeah.

9:11 What Why were you so good, do you think?

9:12 You know, honestly, you wouldn't class me as good if you'd seen the fights.

9:16 Yeah.

9:18 [laughter] I maybe just had a little bit of dog in me back then,

9:19 but oh my god, it definitely wasn't Muay Thai I was fighting.

9:22 I don't know what it was.

9:25 [laughter] But I still managed to win, so that's all that matters.

9:27 It was based on Muay Thai.

9:28 Yeah, based on Muay Thai.

9:29 the philosophy of Muay Thai uh and then from there I had an amateur fight.

9:35 Uh no, from there my next fight after that I

9:39 think I had just a fight that I won pretty easy.

9:41 Then I had one more amateur fight and I ended

9:44 up getting put against the UK number one at amateur.

9:47 And this is my third fourth fight.

9:49 Wow.

9:49 And it I drew with him.

9:50 Really?

9:51 Yeah, and this was like in the space of six months, seven months.

9:54 So, you're You're only 15?

9:56 Yeah.

9:56 Oh, man.

9:57 And then 1 year after training Muay Thai,

10:02 1 full year the the the the day that I started in the summer,

10:06 1 year later, I went to Thailand.

10:09 And so, 1 year later, I started fighting professional Muay Thai.

10:12 And you were 16?

10:13 Yeah.

10:14 And you went to Thailand?

10:15 Yep.

10:15 Wow.

10:16 Just me and my the the trainer.

10:18 Really?

10:19 just me and him, yeah.

10:20 Is it the same trainer in the videos that I see?

10:22 That skinny guy?

10:24 [laughter]

10:24 He seems tough, though.

10:25 Yeah, he seems it.

10:26 Is he is he's skinny, right?

10:27 He is skinny.

10:28 He's very skinny.

10:29 We we all get on at him for that.

10:31 He needs to He needs to have a few more protein shakes.

10:34 Yeah, I know.

10:35 What's up?

10:35 He's He's uh deceivingly strong.

10:38 I'll give him props for that.

10:39 Okay.

10:40 JP, get on the protein shakes.

10:42 Yeah, come on.

10:43 Yeah, protein [laughter] shakes.

10:45 Yeah, no, he's uh He seems like a great coach, though.

10:49 I mean, you must be very comfortable with him, too.

10:52 Absolutely.

10:53 So, Is he older?

10:55 Yeah, only 2 years.

10:56 So, he was 18 and you were 16 and you guys Yes.

11:00 [laughter] go to Thailand.

11:00 We went across the world on ourselves.

11:02 Wow.

11:03 Yeah, it was amazing.

11:04 Where did the money come from to do that?

11:05 Um so, my granny and my mom put sent me over.

11:10 Yeah, okay.

11:11 And then, I think with him it was his dad or or something like that.

11:14 And then, how did that trip go?

11:16 Amazing.

11:16 So good.

11:17 I I feel like yeah, you're you're 15, 16 year old.

11:21 You know, the other side of the world, no parents,

11:23 no rules, no It's just like a a lawless country.

11:27 It's just Thailand's crazy, especially at that age.

11:29 So, everything's just like, "Oh my god, this is [laughter]

11:32 This is insane." Yeah.

11:34 But, a week after I got there, I had my first fight and I won.

11:39 And you know, it was going to Thailand

11:41 at that age that really progressed me as a fighter.

11:44 So, I came back from Thailand 2 months later and all these adults in the gym,

11:49 I just started like I was able to ragdoll them.

11:52 I was just I I just became far superior at such a young age.

11:56 What was it?

11:57 Why do you think that was?

11:58 It was like more reps over there cuz

12:00 all you do is training or just different training?

12:03 It's definitely both.

12:07 It's definitely a bit of both.

12:08 Um you're training Muay Thai twice a day,

12:12 but it's just the level and the intensity and look who you're surrounded with.

12:17 So, the gym that we went to at the time, it was like all Thai champions.

12:20 Yeah.

12:21 And these are the guys that I'm in training with.

12:23 So, it's sink or swim.

12:24 Yeah.

12:24 And obviously, we the sinking isn't an option.

12:28 If And if you don't sink, you're going to get better.

12:29 Exactly.

12:30 And that was it.

12:31 And so, I was getting ragdolled off these guys and through that, I got better.

12:36 Did Did you I'm just curious.

12:39 Do they train a lot harder there than back home?

12:43 At the time, [clears throat] probably.

12:45 Now, I don't believe so.

12:46 I believe that the Western world It's so

12:51 uh Thailand are very stuck in their ways.

12:54 They have a set way they do things and that's it.

12:57 They run in the morning, they hit the bag,

12:59 they come in and and they'll they'll run again in the afternoon,

13:03 then they come in and they they clinch and they hit

13:05 pads and they do boxing sparring and but and they overtrain.

13:10 They completely overtrain and you know,

13:12 the Thais don't They don't love training.

13:14 Whereas like the Westerners, they do it because they have to.

13:18 The Westerners, we do it because we we choose to do it.

13:21 We want to, yeah.

13:22 We want to do it.

13:23 And And that's the difference.

13:24 They have to to make money to provide for their family.

13:27 Exactly.

13:28 And like the Westerners, like we we choose to do this.

13:30 So, like we do it the right way, now I believe.

13:34 Like we don't like me, personally,

13:38 I'm in I'm all for like sports science and like nutrition,

13:44 recovery, not overtraining,

13:46 listening to your body when it's time to listen to your body.

13:49 Thais just like every day, they don't get days off.

13:52 They just They just go And And you know what

13:54 happens then is they you just go through the motions.

13:56 Right.

13:57 You're You're just going through the motions.

13:59 You're not intentional.

14:00 You're just like a robot.

14:01 Whereas like the Westerners, like we chose to do this.

14:04 So, it's like everything we do is with intention and that's

14:07 why now like I feel like the Westerners are Mhm.

14:11 I won't say far superior, but I I'd say we're getting Yeah.

14:14 Yeah.

14:15 Just It's a more well-thought-out approach to training.

14:19 Yeah, instead of just volume and reps.

14:23 I was watching, I think I think it was uh Khalil Rountree.

14:28 I think he was going over there.

14:30 And I think when he first went over there, I don't know where he was training.

14:33 You probably do, but he said he couldn't keep

14:35 up with the level of training they were doing.

14:39 Like it was just so intense.

14:40 It's insane.

14:41 It's like just every day.

14:43 And he said he just like, "I can't do this." It It's insane.

14:45 And the the thing is with like Thais, is they're not super explosive.

14:51 And like with myself or maybe other Westerners,

14:54 it's like we put so much into one session and then it's

14:58 like hard to do that every single day twice a day on repeat.

15:02 Whereas the Thais kind of aren't that intentional.

15:04 Right.

15:04 Just because they go through the motions,

15:06 they kind of just get by, but you know that like like there isn't a Yeah.

15:11 It'd be like you know, to get the stimulus for a fast marathon,

15:16 you you got to get on the track.

15:17 You got to have the intensity.

15:18 You have to train harder than you run the marathon, right?

15:21 So, you have to If you're just going through the motions, you're stagnant.

15:25 Exactly.

15:25 me of that.

15:25 It's just like you have to push harder than uh sometimes to get that growth.

15:30 You can't just show up.

15:31 Exactly.

15:31 Yeah.

15:32 That's to answer the question is that's why

15:35 I feel like the Westerners are definitely Mhm.

15:37 [clears throat] Yeah, that's interesting.

15:39 evolving evolving with the sport.

15:40 Like we've got like 10 years ago,

15:42 we didn't have all the sports science and nutrition and just

15:45 all the things that are at our fingertips now that we have.

15:47 Yeah.

15:47 Why wouldn't we use it?

15:48 Right.

15:49 You know what I mean?

15:50 So, that's Yeah.

15:51 You just need to evolve with times.

15:53 Yeah, I feel like there's so much knowledge out there now.

15:56 If you of course, we're going to train hard.

15:59 We're going to train smart.

16:01 But then, if you also like take advantage of all

16:03 the science and the the new new information out there, wow.

16:09 Exactly.

16:09 I mean, it's It's a privilege to have it now.

16:12 It is, yeah.

16:13 Because like the people that I looked up to when I was a young guy,

16:15 they didn't have this.

16:17 Mhm.

16:17 So, it's like you you can't not level up.

16:21 Yeah.

16:22 It's uh

16:23 But you must put in the hard work, also.

16:24 Yeah, for sure.

16:25 Takes everything.

16:26 Takes all you got and more.

16:28 Um so, it probably It doesn't seem like it's

16:32 a surprise then if you had all that success at 15,

16:35 coming in in 2 months, going to Thailand after, you know, a year.

16:41 [snorts] It's not a surprise that you're champion now, right?

16:43 I mean, so are you To me, it feels like you're almost a uh [clears throat]

16:48 What is that one somebody's born to do it?

16:49 What's it called?

16:51 Destiny?

16:52 A what?

16:54 Destiny.

16:54 No, it's What's the name?

16:55 It's like a um you know,

16:59 like a If they're just gifted, they're I wouldn't say so.

17:03 For me for me, anyway.

17:05 It seems like uh God, like a savant kind of.

17:09 Do you know what that is?

17:10 No.

17:10 Yeah, but it's just like you were born to fight.

17:12 Born This is what you were born to do.

17:14 It seems like with that success, you were just like, "This is This is it."

17:19 I maybe believe I was born to fight.

17:21 Yeah.

17:21 Was I born to be a champion?

17:24 Champions are forged.

17:25 Okay.

17:26 Got you.

17:27 believe champions are born.

17:28 Yeah.

17:28 You know what I mean?

17:29 Champions are forged.

17:29 have all the talent in the world,

17:31 but if you don't put the work in, Well, when hard hard work works Yeah.

17:37 when talent sleeps.

17:38 Right.

17:39 That's right.

17:39 Yeah.

17:40 So, hard work always wins.

17:40 Yeah.

17:41 You don't You don't It doesn't matter how technically good you are.

17:44 Doesn't matter.

17:45 The valiant one always wins.

17:46 Especially if they want to endure.

17:48 What uh is true.

17:50 I mean, it's 100% true.

17:51 So, but you're still so young and you are champion now.

17:54 It's just like Where does this path go?

17:57 What's What's the goal?

17:59 You know, Where is the belt, too?

18:01 I don't How come Did you bring that belt with you?

18:03 I didn't I didn't I wish you did ask and I would have brought it if you asked.

18:08 [laughter] But, can I tell you something about the belt?

18:09 Yeah.

18:10 It's heavy.

18:11 Is it?

18:11 Extremely heavy.

18:13 Yeah.

18:13 So, after the after the I won the belt, I went to Australia,

18:17 done a little tour and I carried it with me.

18:19 Ah.

18:19 And I decided there that I would never take it anywhere else again.

18:23 So, do you wish you weren't champion?

18:24 That was like The Rock.

18:25 You wish you weren't If you weren't champion,

18:28 then you wouldn't have to mess with it.

18:29 [laughter] You wouldn't have to carry it anywhere.

18:31 I swear to God, The Rock is easier to carry than that belt around an airport.

18:36 I'm telling you.

18:37 So, tell [laughter] tell me about The Rock.

18:39 How was that?

18:40 Oh, fun.

18:41 Humbling.

18:42 Humbling experience.

18:43 You did great.

18:44 But, I didn't come in with any expectations today.

18:47 Didn't come in to break any records.

18:48 I just wanted to come out and have And it was a beautiful day.

18:51 Yeah, it was.

18:52 Your attitude is so so good cuz I asked you, I said,

18:55 "Was it harder or easier?" And you're just like,

18:57 "Wasn't just is what it is." It just is.

19:00 Take it as it comes.

19:02 Yeah, no, I love that.

19:03 And then also, you shot your bow.

19:05 How was that?

19:06 amazing.

19:06 That was super fun.

19:07 I've got a nice little I don't know if the camera can see this.

19:10 Mhm.

19:11 I got a hematoma coming out my arm.

19:12 I think we call that a string kiss.

19:15 Oh, a string kiss.

19:16 Not a hematoma, then.

19:19 [laughter] No, but you ended up That happens.

19:20 Sometimes people get too deep in with the on that grip

19:23 and then that forearm's in the way of the string,

19:25 but But, it was amazing and uh You shot great.

19:28 I shot the ones that mattered.

19:29 Yeah.

19:30 Well, no, that was the first time I held the bow.

19:31 Yeah.

19:32 No, for your first time, you shot great.

19:33 Sure.

19:34 So, I don't know if you know when you hit

19:35 that since you you know you I think that was after that.

19:38 I think I think I had an issue with something.

19:41 was from The Rock.

19:42 No, that was The Rock.

19:43 Yeah, so shooting shooting a bow is fun and now

19:46 you're going to have your own bow back there.

19:47 You can't hunt.

19:49 I can't hunt, no.

19:51 But, maybe we'll maybe we'll maybe we'll get law changed.

19:53 We we can work on that back there.

19:58 [laughter] Um do you have a Also, check this out.

20:00 Look at this.

20:01 I got trading cards.

20:04 This is sick.

20:05 And does it have your stats on the back?

20:07 No, I think they just have like a little blurb about that.

20:09 Oh, yeah, yeah.

20:10 Yeah.

20:11 But so these are going in the studio here.

20:13 Now I got some special gifts with my other special gifts.

20:17 Um so that's cool.

20:17 So what's the

20:20 [snorts] from champion right now, what's your goal?

20:22 What what where are we headed with this?

20:25 Yeah, I just love you know, Goggins' book, never finished.

20:29 Yeah.

20:29 That's mindset that Yeah.

20:32 never finished.

20:34 I believe that too many people fall off once they

20:37 reach uh a huge like milestone, like a huge goal.

20:42 Yeah.

20:42 They get there Take their foot off the gas.

20:44 Yes.

20:45 Yeah.

20:45 And they get comfortable and they fall off and disaster starts from there.

20:49 For me, I knew I was going to get this belt.

20:51 I didn't know when, but I knew I was going to get it.

20:53 But I also knew once I got it that there was going to be so much more.

20:58 Defend the belt for a start.

21:01 And then from there uh I'm sure a lot of people

21:05 know now is I want to go down an MMA route.

21:08 I want [clears throat] to find a new discipline.

21:09 I want to I want to be the best at something else now.

21:13 And and that's it.

21:14 And you know, when I retire from fighting,

21:16 I'll I'll I'll try and win some races.

21:19 Yeah.

21:19 Go out here and do the Kokoda Trail.

21:21 That's the other one.

21:21 But that that is my mindset though.

21:23 Yeah.

21:23 It is never finished.

21:24 Yeah.

21:24 You just once you take something off,

21:26 amazing, brilliant, it's in the past though.

21:28 Let's New challenge.

21:29 Yes, 100%.

21:30 New challenges.

21:31 Um have you have you announced you're doing the MMA thing?

21:35 I mean, not really announced that.

21:40 [laughter]

21:39 People seen my my social media.

21:41 They've seen I've been doing wrestling and grappling and stuff.

21:43 They're probably ask questions, yeah.

21:45 And yes, I will fight MMA.

21:48 Mhm.

21:49 When do you think?

21:51 That's the

21:52 [laughter]

21:52 That's that's the one, isn't it?

21:53 That's the question.

21:55 If I had the choice, I would fight MMA the end of this year.

21:59 Really?

22:00 But Rome wasn't built in a day.

22:02 No.

22:03 And so Obviously, if I go in MMA, I've already got a massive price on my head.

22:10 You know what I mean?

22:10 Like I come in as a champion, so people already want to kill me.

22:14 Yeah.

22:14 So we'll make sure that we're ready.

22:16 And we we won't rush anything.

22:18 Yeah.

22:18 I I like that, but I do think that I mean, you are a star.

22:23 You're a star in in in your discipline now.

22:27 UFC needs stars.

22:29 You're marketable.

22:30 You got the look.

22:31 You're shredded.

22:32 You're a champion.

22:34 So easy to sell.

22:35 Dude, you are so easy to sell.

22:37 I mean that's UFC needs that.

22:40 That's what that's why people watch.

22:42 Yeah, maybe maybe I need to move to the US.

22:46 I don't know.

22:46 I mean, I think there's I think you got a lot of potential.

22:49 I don't know how marketing and business work when

22:51 you're not in the I know the US is good.

22:54 We love sports, you know?

22:55 We we know it's definitely definitely easier for um sponsorships and things

23:02 like that if you're you're you're based over here.

23:04 Mhm.

23:05 I I would say that they obviously I'm with One in the Asian market.

23:10 I would say it's definitely more difficult over there cuz they want their own.

23:15 You know what I mean?

23:16 They want the Thais and the Japanese.

23:17 That's who they want to Yeah.

23:19 See what Yeah, on the brand.

23:21 So it's definitely more difficult, but Yeah, cuz I see,

23:24 you know, UFC they tried they I mean,

23:26 they tried to branch out into those markets,

23:28 but anytime they go into the market it's it's always those fighters.

23:34 Like if they go to uh Dubai it's always

23:37 They'll have loads of Arabs on the show.

23:39 Yeah, Middle Eastern guys.

23:40 And so it's like I that makes sense that you're saying that they

23:43 only care about like the Asians only care about their fighters, you know?

23:47 So it is harder to build a brand over there, I bet.

23:51 Um but like UFC, they establish it here, it's giant here,

23:55 and then they want to get a little bit bigger in these other markets.

23:58 But yeah, I think that US it feels like it's the key to like a lot of marketing.

24:04 At 100 Mhm.

24:06 Excuse [clears throat] me.

24:06 At 100% is I feel like once you're mainstream in the US, you're mainstream.

24:11 Yeah.

24:11 Like you're you're known.

24:12 Yeah, that's true.

24:13 Yeah, or I mean, that that seems like it's about right.

24:16 Um I was just saying about something else too.

24:18 So I've watched some of your fights, not all of them,

24:20 but I've never seen you like I I said this morning when we went to breakfast,

24:25 your face is like perfect.

24:27 Like you're not don't look like a fighter face.

24:30 And it reminds me of uh I I was always blown away by Khabib.

24:35 29 and 0, I never saw him bleed.

24:40 Did you ever see him bleed?

24:41 No that you see it.

24:42 I don't think so.

24:44 But it's cuz he was always shooting.

24:45 What was it?

24:46 He was always But how do you fight 29 professional guys and never get caught?

24:51 Just an outlier.

24:52 Just But you remind me of that because you're somehow you avoid that damage.

24:59 Yeah.

24:58 Unfortunately, I have been cut.

25:00 Mhm.

25:00 I've got a little cut above here.

25:03 I see a little baby little thing.

25:04 It's small, but it's I'm grateful Probably probably bled a lot.

25:08 It did.

25:10 [laughter] I've had bigger cuts in my arm.

25:12 From elbows?

25:13 Like throwing elbows?

25:14 No, just in general.

25:18 [laughter] Um yeah, so the cuts I've had have been not too bad.

25:21 I've not broke my nose or broke any I broke my hand in fights,

25:25 but Yeah, you fight.

25:26 is people look at my face.

25:29 Yeah.

25:29 I've not took a lot of damage to the face.

25:31 Touch wood.

25:32 Yeah.

25:33 Long may that continue.

25:34 I understand, yeah.

25:35 But yeah, wasn't it amazing how Khabib could do

25:38 that for so long and how I I mean, it just blows me away.

25:41 Well, that's where you get all obviously the the goat

25:44 conversations and he just fits right in there.

25:46 Yeah.

25:47 But it's like what we're talking about earlier on on the whole

25:50 what he's amazing at he just goes straight to that.

25:53 Mhm.

25:53 Grappling.

25:54 Yeah.

25:54 He isn't trying to mess about standing up fighting people.

25:57 He's just like, I know where I'm the king,

25:58 that's where I'm going to take [clears throat] you.

26:00 And that's what he does in all his fights.

26:01 He just grapples people to death.

26:02 He he dictates where the fight's going to happen.

26:05 Always.

26:05 Yeah, it's always up to him.

26:07 You know, actually one fighter that gave him

26:09 a really hard time up until that was McGregor.

26:12 Yeah.

26:13 I would say McGregor was probably winning that fight.

26:15 He I know he won a round or Yeah, I think he won two rounds.

26:19 Yeah, I mean, he he did Khabib did land that one punch.

26:23 I mean, I was just kind of shocked he landed that one, knocked McGregor back.

26:27 overhand left, wasn't it?

26:28 Or something?

26:29 Um but McGregor actually fought a really great fight.

26:32 He did.

26:33 But then obviously, once you're on the ground with Khabib,

26:35 it's The guy wrestles bears.

26:37 I know.

26:38 What are you going to do?

26:39 What are you going to do?

26:39 You shoot on this guy, wrestles them.

26:41 I know.

26:43 [laughter] Crazy.

26:43 Yeah, it's I was at that fight and that was just nuts.

26:47 Oh, you were there?

26:47 So you seen the big breakout after that.

26:49 Oh, it was like it was crazy.

26:51 Insane.

26:53 it was crazy.

26:54 Um but the just the environment, dude.

26:58 It was there's no Have you been to a live UFC?

27:01 I've not been at UFC.

27:02 Oh, man.

27:03 been at UFC.

27:04 It's Yeah, I mean, I I mean, your fights are amazing, electric.

27:10 It's like when Conor was fighting or even when

27:13 Ronda was fighting their or Spider-Man Spider Anderson Silva.

27:18 Like those entrances Goosebumps.

27:22 Insane.

27:22 Crazy.

27:23 Everybody's so hyped.

27:25 You know what entrance was amazing?

27:27 Uh Alexander Volkanovski just fought uh his title

27:31 fight in his home hometown in Sydney.

27:34 Oh, yeah.

27:35 And that was amazing.

27:36 I've I've watched the video so many times with him just walking out.

27:39 I watched that more than I watched the fight.

27:40 I love like goosebumps.

27:42 I love that stuff.

27:43 And McGregor's was iconic.

27:45 It was so good.

27:46 Oh, I And you know, I miss that magic like when he was

27:50 at his pinnacle and winning and like on the mics, it was so good.

27:55 It's you don't I mean, you appreciate when it's there,

27:58 but when it's gone, you're just like wow.

28:01 The UFC's definitely where it is today single-handedly because of him.

28:08 I would say.

28:09 Like he he brought UFC proper mainstream.

28:14 Yeah.

28:15 Like like him alone.

28:16 Mhm.

28:17 He he's just a star that comes once in a I know.

28:20 lifetime.

28:22 How are you at talking smack?

28:23 I can I can talk smack.

28:25 Yeah.

28:25 I can talk smack if I have to.

28:27 See, that I I done that a lot in my younger career.

28:30 Mhm.

28:30 Once I signed with One Championship it's not like I changed or anything.

28:36 The market over there, they don't really like it.

28:40 Mhm.

28:40 It's just which which for me is I I don't love that because you know,

28:46 for me however you are, just that's the way you are.

28:49 Be yourself and take the full time.

28:51 With One over there in that market,

28:53 it was like a cuz Muay Thai is such a respected sport.

28:57 Right.

28:58 So we don't have to talk smack.

29:02 At the end of the day, Saturday night,

29:04 we're both going to go in and punch each other's brains out.

29:06 So there doesn't have to be all this animosity before it.

29:10 A lot of fights, like my last fight,

29:12 my championship fight with Shadow uh I was walking by him.

29:17 We we sat and talked to each other.

29:18 We shook hands.

29:19 There was a part where we I was walking

29:22 in a shop and he was out eating and he was like,

29:24 "Nico, come eat come eat with me." [laughter] You know what I mean?

29:27 It's just like At the end of the day,

29:28 all this stuff before it doesn't matter cuz on fight night,

29:31 we're both going to do the same thing.

29:32 Right.

29:33 So over there, they don't really like [snorts]

29:36 and it's because of how much of a a standard for respect there is in Muay Thai.

29:41 It's a very respected sport.

29:43 Like it it's always been like that.

29:45 Yeah.

29:45 Um and so that that's kind of why I don't I

29:49 don't really I mean martial arts is supposed to be similar.

29:53 Yeah, exactly.

29:53 But it's I think what changed it is Conor McGregor.

29:59 [laughter]

29:58 Well, Conor, but UFC loved it because they had to sell pay-per-views.

30:03 Oh, that and that did.

30:04 You know, and and now since they're on Paramount,

30:06 they don't need to sell pay-per-views,

30:07 so you don't have to quote sell a fight anymore.

30:10 Ah, exactly.

30:11 You know what I mean?

30:12 I think you could sell a fight and it's going to you might get a better payday,

30:16 you know, like the show and the win is probably going to be better.

30:18 And like even just like the like your socials kind of things like that.

30:23 So it's they're still it's still useful, but not like when, you know,

30:27 they used to want to sell, you know, our 2 million pay-per-views.

30:30 That takes somebody good on the mic and it takes a villain and a and a good guy.

30:35 It was like when McGregor fought Mayweather.

30:38 Like they done [clears throat] a full tour.

30:39 Yeah, like four different cities or something like that.

30:42 than that.

30:42 Six, 10, I don't know what.

30:44 crazy amount.

30:45 They were in a different city doing the same thing,

30:47 just smack talking to each other on the Everyone watched that fight.

30:50 Oh, crazy.

30:51 Everyone.

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33:29 What was it?

33:30 I think Floyd Mayweather got paid 300 mil for that.

33:33 Something.

33:34 And Conor got 100 mil.

33:37 yeah.

33:36 Crazy.

33:36 I mean Insane.

33:37 [laughter] Yeah, so it's but it's it's just weird how, you know,

33:42 see in America, it feels like we like the the confident smack talker, right?

33:48 But in martial arts, which we still do it in UFC here,

33:52 but I understand like where,

33:54 you know, like where you're from, it is

33:55 the respect is is bigger than talking[ __] get a you can do it.

34:02 I just did the Thais don't.

34:03 So for example, like last week or 2 weeks ago,

34:07 I put up a picture of me in my last fight.

34:11 And you know how like we just have like

34:13 sayings like Which one of these fools want it next?

34:15 Yeah.

34:16 I don't actually mean that he's a fool or something something, right?

34:20 I just I just put the caption as what one of these fools want it next.

34:23 Yeah.

34:23 And the amount I hate I got from the Thais from the Thais.

34:28 Like there was obviously a mistranslation and stuff and they're like,

34:30 "Are you saying Shadow is a fool?

34:32 Why are you disrespecting?" And it was like hundreds of comments.

34:35 I just deleted the picture.

34:36 I was like That worked.

34:38 god, not even worth it.

34:39 That wasn't isn't what I meant.

34:40 They're missing the whole point, yeah.

34:42 Yeah.

34:42 So it's it's just crazy.

34:44 I understand that.

34:45 Yeah, it's a and no, you're just yeah, it's just a funny caption.

34:49 It literally there's nothing there's nothing to it.

34:51 There's nothing to it.

34:52 Yeah, it's I I get that.

34:54 So different cultures for sure have different way going about business.

34:58 I get it.

34:59 Um Yeah, I mean I think that Yeah,

35:02 I want to see what you can do in MMA for sure.

35:04 That'll be fun.

35:05 It's for sure.

35:06 I'm looking forward to it.

35:07 Yeah.

35:08 Um So tell me like I I we missed part

35:12 of it what after you went to to Thailand, you came back.

35:15 So then how long is this journey been from then until like did you have

35:20 the belt before this this time or is this the first time you've had it?

35:23 No, this is this is So So One Championship

35:29 is like the mainstream of Muay Thai now, kickboxing, right?

35:32 Before One Championship fighting was only for the love of fighting.

35:39 There was no money in it.

35:40 Okay.

35:40 Zero.

35:41 Mhm.

35:41 Like nothing at all.

35:43 So when like my passion was Muay Thai, but when we were fighting,

35:48 it was just to get a name in Muay Thai.

35:51 It wasn't you're not looking at the future

35:53 thinking I'm going to be a millionaire,

35:56 I'm going to be financially secure, and that wasn't the thought back then.

36:01 [clears throat] Back then it was just I wanted get better

36:03 and I want to do better and things like that.

36:05 And then One Championship came about and then they

36:07 started giving out 50K bonuses and it's like like okay,

36:11 now they're changing people's lives.

36:12 So when that came about, that became the new all in on that.

36:17 That's that's where I have to go.

36:19 And when was this?

36:20 That was probably when I was 20 years old.

36:25 Okay.

36:26 Um Like it could be a job then, you thought.

36:29 Yes, so I was I was I was a electrician.

36:32 Mhm.

36:33 And I quit when I was 20 because I hated

36:36 being an electrician and then and One Championship was about

36:38 and I was like I'm this is where I'm going

36:41 to go and I put all my eggs in that basket.

36:43 Yeah.

36:43 Quit my apprenticeship and went full-time on Muay Thai.

36:48 Mhm.

36:47 So back then like with with there wasn't any there wasn't any financial gain.

36:55 So after after I came back from Thailand,

36:58 I started fighting just like Scottish scene was beating everybody up.

37:04 Then from there I went into kind

37:05 of the UK domestic scene was beating everybody up.

37:09 Then I started capturing European titles and then from there I won

37:13 What's the organization that puts this on?

37:15 Oh, in Muay Thai there's so many different ones.

37:17 The ones that I got are actually really high, like probably one of the best.

37:20 So it was called ISKA Mhm.

37:23 Um, and WMO, World Muay Thai organization.

37:27 So and WBC is another one.

37:28 I I got the European for that.

37:30 But I got the world for the ISKA and two-time WMO.

37:35 So you won those championships?

37:36 was a three-time world champion before I before I signed to One Championship.

37:40 Okay.

37:41 But even then like the wages like you're just doing it to be a world champion,

37:45 you're not doing it to When did you start making any money?

37:48 It only when I went to One.

37:50 Okay.

37:50 So um Yeah, before that like you're you're just

37:55 fighting for the love the love of the sport.

37:57 Yeah.

37:57 Yeah.

37:58 So Yeah, so going to the world going to the winning the world titles and then

38:03 like that was that I got I got a phone call to go to One Championship.

38:09 And then that's it from there just It's a pretty I mean those uh those fighters,

38:16 I mean, what's the they always have the stuff tied here.

38:19 Do you you don't tie the stuff there.

38:20 I don't absolutely What's that for?

38:22 Absolutely hate it.

38:23 I think it's really uncomfortable.

38:25 Really?

38:24 But so it looks kind of cool though.

38:26 It's very cool [laughter] and the the reason behind it's even cooler.

38:29 Okay.

38:30 So back I'm not going to go ahead and try and do a history lesson here

38:36 cuz I'll end up getting it wrong [laughter]

38:37 and I'll I'll end up getting hate for it.

38:39 But back in the day when the Thais went to war they would

38:44 cut a piece of ribbon off of the mother's wedding gown or the wife's

38:51 and they would give that to their sons who are the soldiers

38:54 and wrap it around their arms to take into battle for good luck.

38:58 And that tradition carries over into Muay Thai.

39:02 Okay.

39:02 So this is like an emblem of good luck.

39:05 Oh, I see.

39:06 That's kind of cool.

39:07 Yeah.

39:08 But you don't do that.

39:09 do that.

39:09 Cuz you don't like it on there.

39:10 It's so annoying.

39:11 You don't like good luck.

39:12 I [laughter]

39:14 I I do I do like good luck, but let's be honest, we create our own luck.

39:20 [laughter] Yeah, that's true.

39:20 Yeah, I just I just think it's I mean,

39:23 just watching the fights is just I don't know,

39:27 it's that striking is just something so so badass about it.

39:32 Muay Thai striking is the best in the world.

39:34 It feel seems like it to watch.

39:36 There's no there's no argument about that.

39:39 Mhm.

39:40 And I'm not saying this is a Muay Thai

39:41 purist because I am now going down the MMA route.

39:44 If you come up against a Muay Thai guy on striking, you lose.

39:50 That's why like in MMA, you see so many leg breaks and so

39:53 many horrible injuries because the technique isn't great.

39:57 Mhm.

39:57 Whereas Muay Thai technique in striking is perfected Mhm.

40:02 to every punch, every elbow strike, knee and kicking,

40:06 every single limb we've perfected how to throw it the best for maximum damage.

40:16 Yes.

40:15 Yeah, it looks like it.

40:16 And uh the quickest way to get there with the least damage on hurting you.

40:20 Everything you name it, that that's what Muay Thai is.

40:22 Has to be best for a bar fight.

40:24 Uh definitely.

40:26 You think?

40:27 Short elbow.

40:28 I know, an elbow.

40:29 Nobody's expecting an elbow.

40:31 Exactly.

40:32 [laughter] You take an elbow to your nose.

40:33 Oh, no bueno.

40:34 In a bar?

40:34 No bueno.

40:38 [laughter] I want to go home.

40:38 I seen a I seen a video the other day and it was like

40:41 a guy gets into a bar fight and he gets into a really heavy stance.

40:44 Yeah.

40:44 And then the other guy just chops the inside of his leg and just snaps it.

40:49 [laughter]

40:50 Yeah.

40:50 So that's you come against a guy who knows

40:52 how to leg kick and calf kick and[ __] Yeah,

40:54 so he walks in a bar and they got these things tied on their arms.

40:57 And they walk in with the the the you seen the ones on the head, the mongkon?

41:00 Yeah.

41:01 Game over.

41:03 [laughter]

41:02 What what you should really look for is a guy with like the cauliflower ears.

41:05 Yeah, that's here over here, that's what we always say.

41:08 Yeah, you see that

41:09 The wrestlers.

41:09 good night.

41:10 Yeah, that's that for here, that's wrestlers.

41:12 So you see a wrestler, you're like, no,

41:14 that's not but God, watching you guys strike, I don't know.

41:18 That looks devastating.

41:20 Yeah, and and that's it's for me it's sad

41:23 that it's not more mainstream in in the US.

41:27 Yeah.

41:26 Because anybody who talks about it has watched One Championship,

41:30 has watched the fights, they say it's the by far most entertaining stuff ever.

41:34 Like it's cuz it's just madness.

41:36 It's crazy but it's a beautiful art form.

41:38 Yeah, it's all on the ground.

41:39 It's standing and striking.

41:40 Yeah, and that's what everybody wants to see.

41:42 Everybody wants to see a fight cuz obviously if you don't know jiu-jitsu,

41:46 you don't know wrestling.

41:47 know what's going on.

41:48 appreciate it and you don't know what's going on.

41:50 Yeah, you have to have like Joe or DC or those guys,

41:53 you know, calling and saying what they're trying to do.

41:56 commentary helps.

41:57 If the If there was no commentary,

41:58 people would just be like, what the is going on here?

42:01 Yeah, yeah.

42:02 Now I I'm I love watching, you know,

42:05 you fight for sure but I'm super pumped to see the MMA stuff.

42:09 I I don't see how the UFC couldn't just jump all over you.

42:13 Like so, you have a manager that's like trying

42:16 to book fights for you or sell fights or what what?

42:19 got a manager right now who's just obviously

42:21 I've just became the champion and One Championship.

42:24 So now he's dealing with negotiating with new contracts and Yeah.

42:29 fights and then also endorsements.

42:32 Okay.

42:32 As well.

42:33 So Yeah, work in progress.

42:36 Let's see.

42:37 That's I mean Does the paydays go up when

42:41 you get to be champion like quite a bit?

42:45 A fair a fair amount.

42:46 Yeah.

42:46 Um obviously I've not been paid as a champion yet.

42:49 Mhm.

42:49 So the next fight you should get a good contract.

42:52 I should definitely be on way more than what I've made so far.

42:56 Do they do show and win or what do they do?

42:58 So the contract I was on before unfortunately wasn't but it's

43:02 because I didn't we didn't negotiate it at the time and stuff.

43:04 Well, I was a young guy, I didn't have a manager.

43:06 Now we've done everything through the right way.

43:08 You got some leverage.

43:09 So now yeah, and as a champion, so now I would yeah, definitely.

43:13 I think with Muay Thai,

43:15 it's not so much a thing in MMA and one I definitely know they do that.

43:20 Like show and then if you win, you get the the same.

43:24 Yeah, yeah.

43:25 It's a It's just interesting.

43:27 Yeah, I mostly it's about if people care about you, you can make money.

43:32 Sponsorships, [clears throat] yeah, social media, all sorts of stuff but uh who

43:39 who do you want to fight in your next fight?

43:42 Well If you had to choose.

43:44 If I had to choose, it would be Tawanchai who

43:46 is who is the champ before he broke his leg.

43:50 Mhm.

43:51 But he's broke his leg right now and he's

43:53 not going to That's the belt you got now?

43:55 Yeah.

43:55 He had that?

43:57 Yeah.

43:57 So he's not he's he's broke his leg and I don't know when he's going to recover.

44:01 Mhm.

44:02 So I'm not really looking at that right now.

44:04 I'm not hung up on it.

44:05 I'm just I just want to fight.

44:07 Yeah.

44:07 really cared about who I fight or anything.

44:09 Like for me, it's never been, oh, it's my dream opponent and things like that.

44:12 Every fight ends up being a dream opponent.

44:14 Like the last few opponents I've fought,

44:15 I've watched them since I was a young guy.

44:17 They've been in the game for a long time.

44:19 Now I've beat them, I've knocked them out and it's like onto the next.

44:22 For me, it's more I've always wanted to get

44:24 the belt and I didn't care about the journey to it.

44:28 I I just wanted the belt.

44:29 Now I've got the belt and now I'm like the same thing.

44:31 I just want to fight and defend it.

44:33 I don't really care who it is.

44:34 Mhm.

44:35 So And you're fighting at 55 now?

44:38 155.

44:39 Is that Do you think what Is that what you'd take into like MMA, [snorts] 55?

44:43 Yeah.

44:44 That's what you want to fight at?

44:45 Definitely.

44:46 I couldn't I couldn't make 145.

44:48 Yeah, no way.

44:49 Oh, you're pretty big for that.

44:51 I couldn't do that.

44:51 And have you trained with like UFC guys?

44:55 Yeah.

44:55 Yeah.

44:56 Yeah, so at Bangtao right now, um UFC right now in Bangtao.

45:04 Well, not not UFC but Craig Jones is there.

45:07 You know the jiu-jitsu.

45:08 He's at Bangtao right now.

45:10 Um before that, I was training with Chandlers um opponent,

45:14 Mauricio Rua, Alexander Volkanovski, Israel Adesanya.

45:19 They were all at all at all at the gym I trained at.

45:21 Okay.

45:22 Oh, and just recently I was training with um Colby Covington.

45:26 He's fighting on the Perth card.

45:28 What day is it today?

45:31 Tuesday?

45:31 This Saturday.

45:32 Oh.

45:32 He's fighting in UFC Perth.

45:33 I spent a lot of time with him the last 4 weeks.

45:36 Who Who is that?

45:37 Colby Covington.

45:38 He's a He's like Volkanovski's prodigy.

45:40 Okay, yeah.

45:40 He's like he's a he's a younger guy in the gym

45:42 but he's he's in the UFC uh this this weekend.

45:46 Can you Can you hang with those guys?

45:48 Grappling he's his grappling's insane.

45:51 I must admit.

45:52 Pretty good.

45:53 Striking obviously is that's that's my[ __] Yeah.

45:58 [laughter]

45:57 So you Your striking is it better than most of the UFC guys, do you think?

46:02 Yes.

46:02 Yeah.

46:03 So if you can level That's no arrogance.

46:06 That's just like yes, it is.

46:08 Just it is.

46:10 We're not arguing about it.

46:11 Just it is.

46:12 Yeah, so but if you could get to where

46:14 you could defend the takedowns and then we're good.

46:17 Absolutely.

46:18 That's a plan.

46:19 Yeah.

46:20 That's a plan.

46:20 Oh man, that's

46:21 Defend the takedowns.

46:22 That's so sick.

46:23 Like if you had a dream fight in the UFC, what would it be?

46:27 In the UFC?

46:30 A dream fight?

46:31 Yeah.

46:35 I don't I don't know.

46:36 I don't Come on.

46:37 No, no, no, no, no.

46:39 You've been fighting your whole life.

46:40 I know you've been watching UFC.

46:42 I know you got somebody.

46:43 do you know something?

46:45 See See, I've been watching these guys as fans.

46:49 Yeah.

46:50 So my mindset has never been to fight them.

46:52 Right, that's true.

46:52 It's just always been to like, I want to be like him.

46:55 I want to do what he's done.

46:56 Yeah.

46:57 Cuz I know that it'd be like, I want to fight him one day.

46:59 It would be more like, he's a dick.

47:01 Yeah.

47:01 I don't like that guy.

47:03 Right.

47:03 would be more of that mindset.

47:05 Whereas people I've looked up to is like, I want to be like him.

47:08 Mhm.

47:09 Never I want to fight him.

47:11 Which is a boring answer but it's the truth.

47:13 [laughter] It's a boring answer but that is the truth.

47:15 So 55, who's the champion?

47:18 Ilia Topuria.

47:19 Unfortunately.

47:22 [laughter] How would you match up with him?

47:23 Oh, I don't I don't right now.

47:25 Not not good probably.

47:27 His [laughter] His His wrestling's amazing.

47:29 Yeah.

47:30 Could I beat him striking standing up?

47:32 I think I could beat everybody in the world striking and standing up.

47:35 Yeah, I mean he punches hard but you punch hard.

47:37 Yeah, he does punch very hard.

47:40 Yeah.

47:39 Um but right now, obviously though.

47:43 I mean I think I think I'm probably

47:45 taller.

47:46 You know, he looks really stocky though.

47:47 Mhm.

47:47 He looks really stocky.

47:49 Yeah, he's explosive but but I think you

47:52 His His ground game's insane as well though.

47:54 I bet.

47:55 everybody out Yeah.

47:56 but his grappling is is is next level as well.

47:59 I think I watched him.

48:00 Was that against um God,

48:03 well I know he beat the hell out of Bryce

48:06 Mitchell once but then I think also like Max, didn't he?

48:10 Didn't he beat up Max?

48:13 the That was his That was last year.

48:14 God, and Max is good.

48:16 Yeah, very.

48:16 Anybody

48:17 Max has never been knocked out.

48:18 Anybody who can do that makes me a little nervous.

48:21 But do you know who what Ilia Topuria reminds me of?

48:24 Just like a better version of Conor McGregor.

48:27 Mhm.

48:27 Just he keeps predicting things and saying that he's

48:30 going to do things and he just does them.

48:32 He does it.

48:33 makes it look easy which is terrifying.

48:35 Yeah, yeah, that's true.

48:36 And I'll see who else is in 55.

48:39 55, obviously Justin Gaethje, you obviously Michael Chandler, Mauricio Rua.

48:45 What about Gaethje?

48:46 Gaethje, me Cuz he likes to stand and bang.

48:48 For me I I I I don't have any doubt.

48:52 If it was just a striking match,

48:53 I don't have any doubt with any of these guys, I I I win.

48:57 Mhm.

48:58 But it's MMA and it's not just striking and right now, I'm 100% not there.

49:03 Yeah, yeah.

49:04 Absolutely.

49:04 I've only just started wrestling and stuff.

49:06 In time In time, give it time.

49:08 I'll I'll get there but be a first opening fight for 155 then?

49:13 Um Oh, it would be it would be obviously not top 10.

49:17 Wouldn't that But we could find somebody in there.

49:19 Yeah, I'm sure I'll I'm sure [laughter] I'll hang.

49:21 I'm sure I'll Like I can't wait to see it.

49:24 That's why I'm That's why I'm talking about it.

49:26 One thing that I do want to talk about,

49:28 I was watching as I said, I was watching your videos.

49:31 Um you're young.

49:32 You're What are you, 27?

49:34 Yeah.

49:34 But you're You feel that young?

49:35 You're at but your attitude is like so I

49:39 don't know if it's from you grew up very young.

49:42 You know, I mean you you had to grow up.

49:44 You said, you know, your dad was gone,

49:46 but then there's traveling to other countries as a young man.

49:49 I feel like um your perspective is is unique.

49:55 And like the videos I was talking about,

49:57 you were or I was watching you were

49:58 talking about how you just want to inspire people.

50:01 Yeah.

50:01 And that's most people your age they want the money the fame.

50:08 Inspiring people wouldn't even come up.

50:10 Yeah.

50:11 So I thought that was I was like, man, I loved what you were saying about that.

50:15 Tell me where does that come from?

50:17 Well, it comes from people like you David Goggins.

50:21 That that that is the truth.

50:22 Um I've watched yours for a long time now.

50:25 I've been massively inspired by yours.

50:29 And you know, the message that yours put out there goes to someone like me.

50:35 I'm brave enough to follow that hard message

50:38 and do the hard things and I see the light

50:40 in the things that you talk about and then

50:43 it's up to me to share that on the others.

50:46 Mhm.

50:46 And that it's that simple.

50:47 That's it.

50:49 Well, you do a great job.

50:50 I mean that that means a lot.

50:52 It's like I'm so thankful that you're here that we got

50:55 to do this pod do spend the day cuz uh yeah,

50:59 you're you're a special young man, but it if it feels good to hear that.

51:03 That's it's it's And to just so you know,

51:06 you you have a you have as you we spoke about earlier on you

51:08 have a massive following um on my side of the world over in the UK.

51:12 Huge huge following.

51:14 All my friends in Scotland, what's up, guys?

51:17 I did I did not know you were out there, but I appreciate you.

51:20 Oh, definitely yeah, for sure.

51:21 Yeah, that's that's great.

51:22 I just like I was just so like it was so refreshing to hear you talk

51:26 like that and talk about like your legacy or or how you wanted to, you know,

51:31 just make an impact on society.

51:33 Yeah, because it's everybody's chasing the same things.

51:36 They're chasing the girls and the money and the fame or or whatever.

51:41 But for me when you have this when you have this inner drive,

51:45 when you have this like this purpose in life that is life.

51:49 Yeah.

51:49 That is life.

51:50 That's living life to the fullest.

51:51 Mhm.

51:51 When you have this purpose and you go all in on it and you know,

51:56 the journey to get there is just it's amazing.

51:58 It the journey to get there for me getting the belt doesn't make me who I am.

52:04 It was the journey getting to the belt that is the reason I'm sitting here.

52:08 It is the reason that I've done all the things that I've done.

52:11 Yeah.

52:12 And I think that that's important to to share

52:16 to other people how how beautiful if if if you

52:18 put so much time and effort in go all

52:22 in on something that to me is living a fulfilled life.

52:27 And so because I'm I'm I'm happy, man.

52:30 I'm I'm I love the life I'm living.

52:33 And because of that I just feel like the only right

52:37 thing to do is to share that knowledge with other people.

52:42 A lot of these external things won't make people happy.

52:45 The[ __] that we've done today, that's happiness.

52:47 Yeah.

52:48 That's that's what makes me happy.

52:49 That's Do you know what I mean?

52:50 And and and and people get too caught up on materialistic things.

52:54 But it's all external[ __] The thing that matters is your purpose.

52:59 Yeah.

53:00 Go on go all in on something.

53:01 Find find your find what you're passionate about

53:03 and spend a lot of time if not a lot,

53:08 all your time doing it.

53:08 Yeah.

53:09 And and that's it.

53:10 That's all that matters.

53:10 And then for me it's just share that to other people.

53:13 Let other people know the feeling that I get, you can all get this as well.

53:16 Right.

53:17 Yeah, that's I mean it's it's so powerful, but it's so real it's true, you know,

53:23 and so I'm just glad that a young man

53:25 like yourself is out there sharing that and like

53:28 telling people it's okay to have that attitude because

53:31 we get it gets reinforced out there that oh,

53:34 you're supposed to be like how much can you accumulate for yourself?

53:36 How you know, the nicer the bigger house,

53:39 the nicer car, the more jewelry and all this.

53:42 But then and then you come in and you say stuff like no,

53:44 it's about inspiring people.

53:46 And it's just we need that.

53:48 So I'm like super grateful for you.

53:50 Um yeah, that made me think of one other thing.

53:54 How are you so shredded?

53:58 [laughter]

53:58 Have you always been shredded?

53:59 What's your training like?

54:01 Cuz anybody who's seen you fight would be like I

54:04 don't really know that much about that guy, but he's shredded.

54:07 Yeah, [laughter] I mean does genetics come into it?

54:11 Possibly.

54:12 Yeah.

54:12 A bit.

54:13 I've always had like I'll I'll show you pictures of me when I was

54:15 really young and I was I've always had like a little mini six pack.

54:19 Okay.

54:19 I was like skinny skin and bones, but I had a little six pack.

54:22 Yeah.

54:22 Now it's just the training.

54:23 Yeah.

54:24 That's it.

54:24 That's all it That was training or without training?

54:26 Uh back then I was I was always athletic and I

54:30 was always out doing[ __] but like not at a high level.

54:33 Have you ever been fat?

54:35 Um [laughter] I I don't think I've ever been fat.

54:42 I've been [laughter] I've been to the point where I can't see my abs.

54:45 Oh, so like James.

54:49 [laughter]

54:52 James has got abs.

54:53 What?

54:54 Well, I mean technically everyone does.

54:56 Yeah, that's true.

54:57 Uh under there somewhere.

54:58 He also supposedly has a dick.

55:00 But nobody's ever seen it.

55:04 What's mom?

55:07 [laughter] And your uncle.

55:10 But and then that guy down the street.

55:13 But other than well, and then also that street.

55:16 that other guy.

55:18 But yeah, anyway.

55:19 But that's that's uh that's yeah, genetics and training.

55:23 Yeah, and so like I was asking you, you don't track food necessarily, do you?

55:29 Or calories or No, no, I don't at all.

55:31 No.

55:31 No, like when I was making the lower weight,

55:34 and I was killing myself that was torture.

55:38 That was Did you have to track then or you just starved yourself?

55:42 Um I had well, a bit of both.

55:44 I had to it was it when I done my fight camps,

55:47 the full fight camp would be on a calorie deficit.

55:50 Mhm.

55:50 So I was training twice a day.

55:53 Do you know how many 1,800 calories.

55:55 Oh, and burning, do you know how many?

55:58 3,000.

55:59 Yeah.

55:59 Maybe.

56:00 That's tough.

56:00 Yeah, that's bad.

56:01 And you know what happens then is that every day you're fatigued,

56:05 every day you're tired,

56:06 every day and I felt like with Muay Thai it that way for a couple of years.

56:10 Mhm.

56:10 Because I [clears throat] linked fighting,

56:12 the fun thing that I love doing, I linked it with cutting weight.

56:16 And cutting weight, it wasn't it wasn't like a thing where you know,

56:20 we're doing this cuz on the other side of it

56:22 is like this beautiful this was just[ __] miserable.

56:24 Yeah.

56:25 There was nothing There was nothing great [laughter]

56:27 There was nothing great that came out of it

56:28 apart from making the weight and getting to fight.

56:30 That's right, but it it like it was it was bad.

56:34 And it made me fall out of Muay Thai.

56:35 Like I hated cuz I linked I linked fighting with now I need to do a weight cut.

56:40 Right.

56:40 And then obviously I decided to move up a weight.

56:43 Now I'm just Now you're good.

56:45 Now I'm good.

56:47 [laughter] Yeah, that's uh that weight cutting, man, seems brutal.

56:50 But yeah, cuz in training at a deficit training is hard anyway.

56:54 Exactly.

56:54 When you're having a fuel awful.

56:57 And and especially in Muay Thai it's like

57:00 you have like it's it's it's not something

57:02 that you can just like put one foot in front of the other and just slog.

57:06 You have to be really sharp.

57:08 Mhm.

57:09 You're sparring.

57:10 You're you're doing all these really intricate things.

57:13 Like if you're not mentally sharp

57:15 Yeah.

57:16 you're not there.

57:16 You're You know what I mean?

57:18 So And the guy you're sparring you can't say hey,

57:20 I'm on a calorie deficit so just like kind of chill out.

57:23 No, well they get they're getting brought in to fight

57:25 you the way that this guy's going to fight ready, yeah.

57:27 Exactly.

57:28 So it's like everything just becomes difficult on a calorie deficit.

57:32 Mhm.

57:33 You fatigue easy.

57:34 It's harder to recover.

57:36 And then yeah, it's just it's just[ __] Yeah, well.

57:40 I'm happy I don't need to do it anymore now though, so.

57:42 Yeah, that's good.

57:43 Well, I don't know.

57:44 Like I said, you're shredded, so whatever you're doing works.

57:47 Um [laughter] yeah, and so tell me about your your running

57:52 cuz you've run quite a bit for a fighter.

57:54 [snorts] I mean you said I mean I'm glad you put in for a fighter there

57:58 because I definitely don't run Compared to Courtney you don't run.

58:01 Compared to you, I don't run.

58:04 [laughter] But for a fighter I'll say that I run for a fighter.

58:07 Where did the love of running come in?

58:10 Um the love of running, so I've always run in fight camps,

58:14 but it was just like 5K before training, you know,

58:17 just like hard fast sharp cardio before you train.

58:20 Just things like that.

58:21 I always done that in my fight camps.

58:22 The love of running came in when I met

58:25 my friend Davie Gow who's a ultra marathon runner back home.

58:30 Um he's supported by Hoka.

58:32 Mhm.

58:32 Uh and and Scotland, he's not been competing lately.

58:37 Uh but I I just kind of met him by chance.

58:39 I I me and my friend were doing a marathon.

58:42 And my friend wanted to make it for charity and my friend knew Davie.

58:49 And so he just came along with us.

58:51 Mhm.

58:51 And on that marathon we chatted and we spoke a lot

58:55 and from there I ended up out running with him every day.

58:59 Oh.

59:00 And through running with him I ended up running longer distances,

59:04 started learning about running,

59:05 shoes to wear, this that, all the trails all different routes in Scotland.

59:11 And from there I fell absolutely fell in love with trail running and Mhm.

59:15 that that day kind of distances.

59:16 Yeah.

59:17 Yeah, that's I mean you can do that for a long time after your fighting days.

59:21 Exactly.

59:22 And that's what they'll tell me.

59:22 Look how old I am.

59:24 So right now right now I'm like in Thailand and I'm chasing this pursuit,

59:28 you know, for the Yeah.

59:30 And and uh I am missing running back home Yeah.

59:33 it's race season now.

59:35 So it's like all the little the Scottish races

59:37 and the ultras are coming up and it's like I'm not there.

59:40 It's fun.

59:41 It's It's It's an amazing time this season.

59:43 Yeah, it's a good test.

59:44 And that's the only thing I'm missing,

59:45 but they're all saying like these tools will all still be there Yeah.

59:49 when you retire and when you come back.

59:51 Yeah, they will.

59:53 Are you Are you pretty good?

59:55 Um they I mean next to you, probably not, but the group that I run in, yeah.

1:00:01 Yeah, you can run pretty good.

1:00:03 Yeah, I'm I'm probably the best Really?

1:00:05 apart from one guy.

1:00:06 Okay.

1:00:07 Craig McIntosh his name is.

1:00:08 And the funny thing about him is he's been running for one two years now.

1:00:12 He just all of a sudden just started

1:00:14 running and then he came into the other kind

1:00:16 of group and and and last year he

1:00:19 once he came second in Scotland's most competitive ultra.

1:00:23 Mhm.

1:00:24 It was a 52-miler.

1:00:26 Mhm.

1:00:26 And he came second.

1:00:28 Wow.

1:00:28 And it's a stacked field, like it's Man, so he is good.

1:00:31 good.

1:00:31 Yeah.

1:00:32 So yeah, apart apart from him, yeah, I'd say I'm I'm okay.

1:00:37 well, I'm excited to see how that goes after you get done fighting,

1:00:39 but so you're fighting.

1:00:41 Um right now you're fighting and I was We talked about this a little bit.

1:00:46 The most painful strike.

1:00:49 Yeah.

1:00:50 Honestly, the calf kick's pretty bad now.

1:00:54 [laughter] The calf kick's pretty bad.

1:00:55 Yeah.

1:00:55 But like all these shots as long as your lights don't go out,

1:01:00 you have a choice to fight on.

1:01:02 How strong willed are you?

1:01:04 How much pain can you endure?

1:01:06 And that's with any shot that you take.

1:01:08 The only one shot that you don't have that choice is the liver shot.

1:01:13 That shuts you down.

1:01:14 It will shut your body down and it doesn't matter if your lights don't go out,

1:01:18 you're still conscious, but if you can't breathe, you can't do anything.

1:01:23 Yeah.

1:01:23 Yeah.

1:01:24 And and that's it.

1:01:25 So the liver shot's definitely the worst.

1:01:27 If you get hit to the head, and your lights go out,

1:01:31 you wake up and you don't you don't

1:01:33 you don't know what you don't know what happened.

1:01:35 Yeah, there's no choice to be made.

1:01:36 Yeah, exactly.

1:01:36 There's no choice to be made, but also like it doesn't hurt.

1:01:40 Yeah.

1:01:40 You just wake up and you're like[ __] what happened?

1:01:43 This hurts Uh so much and it shuts you down.

1:01:47 And it Do they Does it always delay?

1:01:51 It can.

1:01:52 So Cuz you you mentioned one where the glancing

1:01:55 You [snorts] said the glancing is worse.

1:01:57 Yeah, I I I don't have an explanation for it.

1:02:00 My coach will probably say the same.

1:02:02 I just find that the sh I don't know if it just

1:02:05 hits more of the liver because it hits and then slides off.

1:02:08 Mhm.

1:02:08 So it hits like a longer like more surface area of the liver?

1:02:13 Maybe.

1:02:13 I Again, I don't know.

1:02:14 I just think when when the shot you hit it and it slides off,

1:02:19 they ones hurt rather than ones that are just dug right in.

1:02:21 I don't know why.

1:02:22 Yeah.

1:02:23 Um but yeah, a liver shot not you don't want to be taking them.

1:02:28 Yeah, I think we watched a clip where

1:02:31 you were fighting somebody and I think you went

1:02:33 for a couple to the head like just whatever just

1:02:36 get his hands up and then right under the elbow.

1:02:38 the elbow.

1:02:40 Got him.

1:02:41 Shut him down.

1:02:42 Horrible shot.

1:02:43 And he looked he looked in a lot of pain as well, so he did.

1:02:46 [laughter]

1:02:45 Yeah.

1:02:46 Which is Oh, but but you were saying about the delay.

1:02:49 Yeah.

1:02:50 So I think it's to do with how you're breathing at the time.

1:02:55 So I think if you're breathing out when the shot comes,

1:03:00 the delay is when you take your breath in.

1:03:02 Mhm.

1:03:03 You can't breathe in.

1:03:04 Oh.

1:03:04 So it'll be like Yeah.

1:03:08 That's That's pretty much what happens.

1:03:10 Oh, so it's just like where your breath is.

1:03:12 I think so.

1:03:13 Sometimes Normally with a delay, that's where it is.

1:03:15 I see.

1:03:16 They take the shot and it's when they try suck air in, they can't.

1:03:20 [laughter] And that's that's that's where that is.

1:03:21 Uh that's brutal.

1:03:23 What about You always hear about the Thai clinch, right?

1:03:26 So that's holding behind your head and then How did that start?

1:03:31 And cuz that's just knees to the to your body, right?

1:03:36 Well, the clinching is part of Muay Thai.

1:03:37 Okay.

1:03:38 I mean now in One Championship,

1:03:39 I wouldn't say it's 50% of the sport because you know,

1:03:42 there's a lot definitely a lot less clinching happening now in One Championship.

1:03:47 But before in before One Championship in the stadiums in Thailand,

1:03:53 it would be like full a full five rounds and it's just

1:03:56 a clinch fight and it's like [clears throat] clinching itself is an art form.

1:04:01 It's very very difficult.

1:04:03 Really?

1:04:03 Yeah, very difficult.

1:04:05 It's like wrestling as well, like that in itself is a discipline.

1:04:10 And so it's just like having your hands in the more dominant position,

1:04:15 positions where you can elbow,

1:04:17 positions where you are Is that inside the other other arms?

1:04:20 So you want them in?

1:04:22 Always want your hands on the inside, so then you can control the biceps.

1:04:25 If you can control the biceps, it's easy to elbow,

1:04:27 it's also easy to off-balance your opponent.

1:04:29 You're allowed to trip.

1:04:30 Yeah.

1:04:31 There's also you can send your hips back to to strike the knees in.

1:04:34 Yeah, so clinching itself is a beautiful art as well.

1:04:37 Cuz it I know when I'm watching it,

1:04:39 when you see somebody get their hands it just I'm like

1:04:42 I would not want to be that person taking those knees.

1:04:45 of MMA guys because they've done so

1:04:47 much wrestling stuff and like this in wrestling,

1:04:50 you the hands are always like like this, like the pummeling.

1:04:55 Yeah.

1:04:54 So when someone goes to the top of the head,

1:04:57 a lot of MMA guys don't like that's not something that they practice.

1:05:01 Mhm.

1:05:01 So when you go straight up here and the head gets pulled,

1:05:04 you can't really fight that.

1:05:06 It's very difficult to fight that.

1:05:07 The only way to fight that would be by Muay Thai clinching Yeah.

1:05:11 rather than wrestling.

1:05:12 I see.

1:05:12 Does that make sense?

1:05:13 But they usually go to the wrestling or they go to

1:05:16 Well, you see Anderson Silva was so good at doing that.

1:05:18 Whenever he was like had somebody up against the cage,

1:05:20 he would just grab the back of the head and he would

1:05:23 cuz like if if you grab the neck, the neck is strong.

1:05:27 Mhm.

1:05:27 But if you grab this little bone, A little higher up.

1:05:30 the leverage.

1:05:32 snaps down.

1:05:32 You don't have strength there.

1:05:33 Mhm.

1:05:34 And that's where you always aim for, that bit.

1:05:36 And then the head snaps down and then

1:05:37 you can start driving the knees straight up.

1:05:39 [laughter] [gasps and sighs]

1:05:40 Yeah, and how does that feel like land a perfect knee like

1:05:44 Beautiful.

1:05:44 So so good.

1:05:46 But it's just any strike see any strike that lands

1:05:49 flush and it like and it's it's very sickening.

1:05:52 Mhm.

1:05:52 Like to say, but it is a it is an amazing feeling.

1:05:57 Like cracking someone over the skull.

1:05:59 Like do you ever hear anything like like a cheek break?

1:06:06 My I broke my opponent's jaw last year in two places.

1:06:09 Did you hear it?

1:06:10 I didn't hear it.

1:06:12 Um But you you knew it solid.

1:06:16 So during the fight, I didn't know.

1:06:18 Mhm.

1:06:18 During the fight, I didn't know I broke his It was immediately after it he got

1:06:21 rushed to the hospital and then he was

1:06:23 in the hospital for one week after the fight.

1:06:25 Wow.

1:06:26 Uh he's actually still got What are we now?

1:06:28 Two two months after the fight?

1:06:30 He's still got a full retainer in to keep his jaw wired shut.

1:06:34 Yeah, he'll be out the rest of the year.

1:06:35 What broke a punch?

1:06:36 So I don't actually know what shot it was that broke his jaw.

1:06:40 They're saying it was in the second round.

1:06:42 And so for me, hats off to him because

1:06:46 all the shots that I threw after that, round three,

1:06:48 four, and five, and he and he stayed in the fight.

1:06:51 That's impressive.

1:06:52 But what I did notice was after round two,

1:06:56 every round his head was getting more swollen, yeah.

1:07:00 And then he and then he spat out blood and it was like a lot of blood.

1:07:04 Like you know like when you break your nose, it's just like profusely bleeding.

1:07:08 It was like that.

1:07:08 Yeah, so you knew something was up.

1:07:10 Yeah.

1:07:11 Yeah, I remember when Colby got his fight

1:07:14 against or his jaw broke against Kamaru, I think.

1:07:17 And I remember that his jaw was wasn't working,

1:07:19 his body in there, but reminds me that.

1:07:22 Um That's the That's the second guy's jaw broke.

1:07:25 Really?

1:07:26 God, yeah.

1:07:27 What a What a tough sport.

1:07:30 Very.

1:07:30 As as as And you know what?

1:07:33 Like I've been on the receiving end,

1:07:35 I've been hurt, I've been You know what I mean?

1:07:37 So it's like at the end of the day,

1:07:39 you're both going in to do the same thing and it's just first man to do it.

1:07:42 And it's just it is what it is.

1:07:44 Yeah.

1:07:45 You're I mean, you got a chin.

1:07:46 I don't know.

1:07:47 You're You're You've I've seen you take

1:07:49 some shots and it's like can't even tell.

1:07:51 Yeah, I'm I'm pretty durable.

1:07:53 Yeah, very durable.

1:07:55 Um Yeah, I I just I don't know.

1:07:58 I'm a fan.

1:07:59 Love watching it.

1:08:00 My face wouldn't tell that I'm durable, would it?

1:08:02 Doesn't look like it gets hurt.

1:08:04 It doesn't.

1:08:05 [laughter] Uh Did you have questions, James?

1:08:07 Yeah, I got a couple.

1:08:08 Okay.

1:08:10 Yeah, you know, Nico listens to[ __] talkers, so Oh, he does?

1:08:13 Well, he mentioned I don't know if he listens, but he knows what it is.

1:08:16 So I feel like he knows what's coming.

1:08:17 Oh, no.

1:08:19 Maybe.

1:08:20 So we do a we do a question.

1:08:23 Depends on the guest, but have you ever played[ __] marry, kill?

1:08:28 Um my wife is here.

1:08:29 Okay, but [laughter]

1:08:30 but this is this is these are random uh Yeah, it's not like It's not like that.

1:08:36 No, of course you have Yeah, I've played it of course.

1:08:38 so it's your three categories are running, shooting a bow, and wrestling.

1:08:44 Oh, what?

1:08:45 Okay, and you're going to say a bear or some[ __] and I'd okay.

1:08:48 Yeah, so you got to you got to marry, kill those three.

1:08:51 Right.

1:08:52 Okay.

1:08:52 Ro- running wrestling and uh bow, right?

1:08:56 Okay.

1:08:56 Yeah.

1:08:57 So go ahead.

1:08:59 Which one are you going to marry?

1:09:00 Oh.

1:09:01 So the marry Are you not Are you not giving me like things that I need to say?

1:09:04 No, cuz see you you marry the one of those three

1:09:07 that you want to do the rest of your life.

1:09:09 It's like you married your wife,

1:09:10 you're going to be with her the rest of your life.

1:09:12 So you got to marry one of them.

1:09:14 You got to kill one, which means you're never doing it again.

1:09:18 And then you[ __] and that's just a one night was just for fun.

1:09:22 Uh You can do it one more time.

1:09:23 And that's And that's just for running, wrestling, and shooting a bow.

1:09:29 Uh marry.

1:09:31 Marry for is other one.

1:09:33 Kill.

1:09:34 So, the [snorts] kill you're never doing it again.

1:09:36 Never doing that again.

1:09:37 be the bow since this is your first day.

1:09:38 what?

1:09:39 I'm going to break your heart here.

1:09:41 Oh.

1:09:41 I'm going to break your heart.

1:09:43 Is that you you're you're making me answer?

1:09:45 No, Arch.

1:09:45 Yeah.

1:09:45 Good job, James.

1:09:47 I know.

1:09:47 Yeah, I know but that's the relationship done, James.

1:09:50 Yeah.

1:09:50 Well done.

1:09:51 Yeah.

1:09:52 Yeah, I'm going to kill the bow.

1:09:53 Okay.

1:09:54 No no no no no more And you know why?

1:09:55 Because I already love running and wrestling [clears throat] is a new You

1:09:59 got to you got to love wrestling if you're going to go to UFC.

1:10:02 So, you got to develop that love.

1:10:04 Uh and then I have to What's the other two?

1:10:07 Get to marry.

1:10:09 Marry and and Well, I'll I with I'll marry I'll marry running.

1:10:18 You're getting good at that.

1:10:19 That's for the long That's the long run.

1:10:20 That's the long Wrestling, you got one more shot.

1:10:23 Yeah.

1:10:24 You got to make the most

1:10:28 [laughter]

1:10:27 How was difficult?

1:10:29 Yeah.

1:10:29 See, that's kind of hard, isn't it?

1:10:31 All right.

1:10:32 What else you got?

1:10:33 Earlier, you and I kind of talked about how ultras

1:10:36 aren't necessarily great for physical the physical aspect of your training,

1:10:40 but it can be great for the mental part.

1:10:43 So, how much of you know,

1:10:45 the fight game is kind of past just technique and training

1:10:49 and comes down to mentality when you're in the ring?

1:10:54 You know, [clears throat]

1:10:56 a a lot of it is you you're not going

1:10:58 to fight at the highest level if you don't have technique.

1:11:01 You're not going to fight champions and be the best

1:11:04 if you're not good at you know, the art.

1:11:08 You still need to have some have you I've I've done that.

1:11:12 However, it's when you go through adversity

1:11:17 that the the the psyche comes into it.

1:11:20 The the mental side of it.

1:11:21 Like for example, the the fight I showed you when

1:11:23 I was getting my my my leg blown to pieces.

1:11:26 Yeah.

1:11:27 All technique went out the window.

1:11:28 I didn't have any technique because my leg was shut down.

1:11:31 I couldn't put any pressure on my leg to throw punches.

1:11:34 So, techniques out the window.

1:11:35 The only thing I had there heart heart and control of what I do next.

1:11:41 Yeah.

1:11:41 And that is quit or stay in the fight one second more.

1:11:45 Stay in the fight one second more.

1:11:46 One second more.

1:11:47 One second more.

1:11:48 And that's it.

1:11:49 And And that comes down to I have that kind of mindset through running.

1:11:52 When you're running for long times yourself that is

1:11:56 a lot of the time what you think about.

1:11:57 I would[ __] love to quit right now.

1:11:59 Yeah.

1:11:59 How good would it be to just[ __] walk the rest of this?

1:12:02 But all you say yourself is you just set little check

1:12:04 markers and go like I'm going to run to that pole.

1:12:06 Mhm.

1:12:06 Now, I'm going to run to the next pole.

1:12:08 Now, I'm going to run and you just put one foot in front of the other.

1:12:10 And you know, with running I I take a lot

1:12:13 of the mental stuff into the dark side of fighting.

1:12:16 Yeah.

1:12:17 But of course, you still need to have technique.

1:12:19 You still need to have all that first.

1:12:22 The other part of it is is is a backup plan.

1:12:25 And you don't know when that's going to come up

1:12:27 because you didn't know your leg was going to get destroyed.

1:12:30 not.

1:12:30 It would be nice to be like, "Oh, I'm more technically sound.

1:12:33 I'm better at the art than you are.

1:12:35 I'm going to win." But[ __] happens.

1:12:39 If [laughter] that if that was the case, I wouldn't be the champion.

1:12:41 Yeah.

1:12:41 Cuz I ain't technically better than anybody,

1:12:44 but [clears throat] I'm just I'm just willing to go

1:12:46 to the dark places and stay there for longer.

1:12:48 Yeah.

1:12:49 That's true.

1:12:50 It's like sometimes that's what it comes down.

1:12:52 I I know like I was I don't know uh my son's wife ran the marathon, too, right?

1:12:59 She was struggling at the end.

1:13:00 It's her first marathon, which a marathon's a long way, right?

1:13:03 And he said that at that time it's like

1:13:05 four or five hours out there four hours out there,

1:13:08 but it was like a battlefield.

1:13:10 People were laying on the side of the road.

1:13:14 [laughter] Everybody's limping.

1:13:15 You know, they'd been out there a while.

1:13:16 PR or ER?

1:13:17 Yeah, and that I was thinking about that and I was like,

1:13:21 "That sucks." Cuz I've been in situations like that.

1:13:25 You're just so exhausted.

1:13:26 But also that what also is hard and sucks

1:13:29 in its own way is like I ran the race, too.

1:13:33 And when you're pushing at I was pushing at my limit,

1:13:36 I felt You know how like you you're running and your calf gets tight and you

1:13:40 stop and you push on a light pole or something to kind of stretch it out.

1:13:45 And that feels good and it's a little break.

1:13:47 When you're running at your absolute max,

1:13:49 there's no stopping and stretching out your calf No.

1:13:53 or taking a piss.

1:13:54 Like I stop and take pisses all the time and you get a little break.

1:13:59 And like but when you're like pushing in a race and every stride and and every

1:14:05 it's a effort every single time and you

1:14:07 there's not one second to spare that is hard.

1:14:10 I I cuz it's just like everything's hurting.

1:14:13 Everything.

1:14:14 And it's just six-minute mile and you're just like

1:14:17 just all you want to do is like slow down.

1:14:20 And And you know what the worst part is?

1:14:22 If when you're running at that kind of pace,

1:14:24 see when you do stop try start again is even worse.

1:14:29 Takes forever to get [laughter] Like if you get what's that?

1:14:32 I've went running with people and said, "Hey, I got to take a piss.

1:14:35 Just go ahead and go." A 30 seconds, it looks like they're five miles away.

1:14:40 It's like how How did you get that far in this time?

1:14:43 So, yeah.

1:14:43 When you're not moving and you had been moving quick, yeah.

1:14:48 You lose a lot of ground.

1:14:49 Yeah, but anyway, it's a I don't know.

1:14:53 I love that mental strength.

1:14:54 Did you everything else?

1:14:54 Yeah.

1:14:56 Um obviously, you've talked a lot about how Muay Thai

1:14:58 and other forms of fighting are like an art form.

1:15:01 So, but you guys also mentioned how like

1:15:04 Thailand is kind of stuck in their ways.

1:15:06 So, how do you balance the history and the art form of fighting

1:15:11 with kind of the new knowledge of nutrition and training and recovery?

1:15:19 Um F- for a long time,

1:15:23 I I carried all the culture and stuff like in in Muay Thai over,

1:15:27 but n- I wouldn't say I I I've definitely not fell out of love with Muay Thai.

1:15:32 I still love Muay Thai.

1:15:33 I just love the new version of Muay Thai because of One Championship.

1:15:37 So, in One Championship, like they don't do like but in Muay in Muay Thai,

1:15:41 they do this it's called a Wai Kru.

1:15:43 It's the big dance that they do before the fight.

1:15:46 But you know for for a a spectator that doesn't

1:15:51 understand the culture of Muay Thai, it's very boring.

1:15:53 Mhm.

1:15:54 Like people don't want to see people like dancing bef- before the fight.

1:15:57 People are there to watch people fight.

1:15:59 Yeah.

1:16:00 And in One Championship now,

1:16:01 they've westernized it so that it's uh it's good for spectators.

1:16:06 Mhm.

1:16:07 So, I've kind of evolved and uh that where

1:16:11 that is the kind of thing that I love now.

1:16:14 Um And then the the thing about how I've took

1:16:17 like the training and and all that stuff is honestly,

1:16:21 just always willing to learn.

1:16:25 You know what I mean?

1:16:26 Like just doing what all the greats are doing and you know,

1:16:30 listening to like the Huberman podcast and like

1:16:32 just it's always just trying to learn

1:16:35 and always try to take in information and try and always just try things.

1:16:40 Try it.

1:16:40 If it works, it works.

1:16:41 If it doesn't, well, at least you tried it.

1:16:43 It's better than than regretting it.

1:16:45 Yeah.

1:16:45 Um and so, that I would say I don't know if I have explained that that well,

1:16:50 but that that's that's it really just Yeah.

1:16:56 The the game's evolving and you just need

1:16:58 to choose to either evolve with it Yeah.

1:17:01 or or be stuck.

1:17:02 Yeah.

1:17:03 That makes sense.

1:17:04 Uh I was just curious.

1:17:05 You said that they do like the run in the morning, come back, then run again.

1:17:09 How far are they running over there?

1:17:11 This This is This is the thing.

1:17:13 The trainers are telling me to go out and run 10 km.

1:17:15 Mhm.

1:17:16 But the the truth is they go out and they go by 7-Eleven

1:17:21 and they go they all go by snacks in 7-Eleven and then they'll go walk

1:17:25 for like a kilometer or something and they'll just wait an hour and then

1:17:29 they'll pour water over themselves and then

1:17:31 come back at the gym like they're sweating.

1:17:33 And I've seen this.

1:17:33 I've been in many gyms in Thailand.

1:17:35 This happens firsthand.

1:17:36 Mhm.

1:17:37 Because of the thing we spoke about at the start, there's no intention.

1:17:40 Yeah.

1:17:40 You've got [clears throat] me, the Westerner,

1:17:42 who I I choose to come over and learn and I want to get better at Muay Thai.

1:17:45 I'm going out.

1:17:46 I'm running the 10K.

1:17:47 Yeah.

1:17:48 While they're just And then I come back into the gym and I'm I'm really tired.

1:17:51 35° over there.

1:17:53 Yeah.

1:17:53 And then these guys are just throwing me about

1:17:55 in the clinch because they haven't done the 10K.

1:17:57 Right.

1:17:57 They've just carried on that they've done it.

1:17:58 Yeah.

1:17:59 And And then that that's the Yeah, it's but if what they're meant to do they're

1:18:05 meant to do 10K and then in the mornings So,

1:18:07 gyms are different, but they'll always run in the morning and then

1:18:09 they'll maybe come back and hit the pads or they'll or they'll clinch.

1:18:12 And not hit the pads, just hit a bag.

1:18:14 Yeah.

1:18:14 Or maybe just do like push-ups and abs and pull-ups.

1:18:18 And then in the afternoon, sometimes they'll run again.

1:18:20 And then that's where they see these guys at 7-Eleven.

1:18:24 [laughter] Uh and and and the after and then it's normally a shorter run.

1:18:26 It's not as long but probably.

1:18:28 Yeah.

1:18:30 [laughter] And then they come back and that's when they do the hard

1:18:32 pads and they're sparring and they're clinching and stuff as well.

1:18:35 So, is it pretty much all day of training?

1:18:37 It's not all day.

1:18:38 So, they'll train they'll do their running in the morning

1:18:40 and train for like 40 minutes an hour Okay.

1:18:43 in the morning.

1:18:44 And then in the afternoon,

1:18:46 it can be between two hours to three three and a half.

1:18:51 Okay.

1:18:51 It depends All gyms I've been here are different.

1:18:54 Mhm.

1:18:55 The gym I'm at now is very um kind of like

1:19:00 they're evolving cuz it's a very westernized gym for being in Thailand.

1:19:04 Like a lot of a lot of MMA guys and everybody comes over there now.

1:19:08 And uh they just like you you can do all your good work in an hour and a half.

1:19:11 Mhm.

1:19:12 Like everything you need to do, you can get your pads.

1:19:15 Yeah.

1:19:15 You clinch if you have to.

1:19:16 You you spar if you have to.

1:19:18 You just There's no need to like prolong.

1:19:20 Yeah.

1:19:21 If you're training hard,

1:19:23 you don't have to Like this like I hear

1:19:25 a lot of people say like oh wait and when

1:19:27 they're in fight camp all that train like three

1:19:28 or four times a day and I'm like how?

1:19:31 How hard are you going?

1:19:32 How hard are you?

1:19:33 Cuz for me it's not about the number, it's about what you put in each one.

1:19:38 Mhm.

1:19:39 So it's like I could train once a day and I bet

1:19:42 you I'm putting in more than you're putting in four or five sessions.

1:19:46 Yeah.

1:19:46 You know what I mean?

1:19:47 Like so like I I can never train that many times

1:19:51 in a day cuz like when I train like I'm redlining.

1:19:55 Mhm.

1:19:56 Like cuz I'm training for explosivity and speed and power and like

1:20:00 I'm in a fight you're training to be a cannon for three minutes.

1:20:04 Yeah.

1:20:05 You're never trying to cruise.

1:20:07 You're redlining.

1:20:08 You're trying to hit this guy as hard as you

1:20:10 can as much times as it takes until he goes down.

1:20:13 And hitting somebody as hard as you can is like 400

1:20:17 meter repeats or 200 meter it's it's It takes a lot.

1:20:21 And and that and that so for me doing

1:20:23 that every single day is it is very difficult.

1:20:27 Yeah.

1:20:27 It cuz I'm not cruising anything.

1:20:29 Mhm.

1:20:29 And so when people say they train four or five times a number

1:20:32 that how how hard can you be training if you can do that?

1:20:34 I get that.

1:20:35 Yeah.

1:20:36 Their running and going to 7-Eleven reminds me of when

1:20:39 I was a little [clears throat] kid I'd have

1:20:41 to go so I just go brush my teeth and I just go in and get my toothbrush wet.

1:20:47 [laughter]

1:20:47 So my mom would Okay.

1:20:49 Good job.

1:20:50 Got the toothbrush Is that is that your breath though?

1:20:55 [laughter]

1:20:54 And that's why I have rotten teeth.

1:20:57 And they're gold.

1:20:58 Um Yeah, that's uh yeah, that's interesting.

1:21:02 I was just curious about the running part,

1:21:04 but oh that's what I was going to say too.

1:21:06 And they run mega slow.

1:21:07 Do they?

1:21:08 It's again there's no intention.

1:21:09 There's there's nothing like it specific to a fight.

1:21:12 Right.

1:21:13 Like you're doing three minute repeats, short recovery time,

1:21:15 three minute repeat like there's there's no intention

1:21:18 of or like science for it to help in a fight.

1:21:22 You just get told to go out and run run 10 kilometers

1:21:25 and they're like doing it in like an hour and five minutes.

1:21:27 Like they're running slow and they're just Yeah.

1:21:29 They're just plodding.

1:21:30 There's like it's pointless.

1:21:31 Right.

1:21:32 It's genuine it's just pointless.

1:21:33 If anything it would be developing discipline.

1:21:36 If they're actually doing the whole thing.

1:21:38 doing.

1:21:38 Yeah.

1:21:38 [laughter] That's another story.

1:21:40 Yeah, so like with the science part too that you mentioned,

1:21:43 you know like I can alter right now.

1:21:46 It's carbs per hour, calories per hour, getting your salt in.

1:21:51 Um even like I did a a ketone before I ran my marathon yesterday.

1:21:56 Right before.

1:21:57 So it's like you know, when you talk about these big fights and it's

1:22:01 you're going to need 25 minutes of fuel out there, right for championship fight.

1:22:05 For me 15 minutes.

1:22:06 For 15 minutes.

1:22:06 Yeah, it's five three minutes run.

1:22:08 Yeah.

1:22:09 How are you taking in carbs right before that for energy

1:22:13 or have you eaten a lot of carbs all day?

1:22:15 What are you thinking about for fuel?

1:22:17 For fight day?

1:22:17 Yeah.

1:22:18 For fight day so obviously weigh in the day before Mhm.

1:22:21 and then after weigh in obviously whatever the amount of water

1:22:25 that I've cut is the first thing that has to go back in.

1:22:28 We have to get all the fluids back in.

1:22:30 Like how do you know how much water just from your your body weight?

1:22:33 So no so from whatever I cut they say the morning that I start my weight cut.

1:22:37 And you just know that that's like five pounds or what?

1:22:40 Well, I weigh myself in the morning so I need to be 155 which is 70 kilograms.

1:22:45 I wake up in the morning and I'm 74 kilograms.

1:22:47 Mhm.

1:22:48 Well, I need to go in the sauna until I lose four kilo.

1:22:51 And then you got to drink that four kilos back.

1:22:52 first thing I do is replace the fluids that I've lost.

1:22:55 What what what do you replace it with?

1:22:57 Just water?

1:22:57 No.

1:22:58 Okay.

1:22:58 Electrolytes?

1:22:59 Yeah, cuz if you just drink water it you So as a fighter

1:23:03 we stop eating salts and carbs five days before the weigh in.

1:23:10 Mhm.

1:23:09 Because water salt holds water and in order for us to cut

1:23:13 weight um we have to To get rid of the water, yeah.

1:23:17 We need to have to get rid of rid

1:23:19 of water so but they can't be salt in our body.

1:23:21 So we need to starve ourselves of salt for five days.

1:23:24 hold water too?

1:23:25 We don't have carbs either.

1:23:26 Okay.

1:23:26 So we go on a ke- ketone diet for five days which is high protein,

1:23:31 high fat which is awful awful.

1:23:34 For fuel it's terrible.

1:23:36 Yeah.

1:23:37 So we do that and then it comes to weight cut the water comes out as easier Mhm.

1:23:40 because we've already done this process.

1:23:44 Yeah.

1:23:43 And then so putting it back on um carbonated drinks, electrolytes, sodium,

1:23:49 honey fast acting sugars um before I've actually put

1:23:54 like half a caffeine tablet in in it as well.

1:23:57 So anyway, I'll get I'll get the whatever I've lost put that back in.

1:24:00 And I'll start eating snacks like you never

1:24:03 go into straight on the um solid foods.

1:24:06 Yeah, your stomach's kind of Exactly.

1:24:08 Exactly.

1:24:08 [clears throat] So we'll start by we'll just be eating

1:24:10 like a banana or like sugary wine gums and sweets.

1:24:14 And then from there once our belly feels good we'll move on to like

1:24:17 kind of fast acting carbs like I always have like uh just bread with honey.

1:24:22 Mhm.

1:24:23 And then if your belly's feeling good you just keep doing

1:24:26 that for a while and then eventually you start moving on to actual foods.

1:24:29 Mhm.

1:24:30 And you're just going like same as like a carb load for racing.

1:24:33 You're just eating any carb that you can see.

1:24:36 That's what you're eating.

1:24:37 Rice, pastas just you're just trying to carb load and then the next

1:24:41 day the same you're just getting in as much carbs in Mhm.

1:24:44 as you can.

1:24:46 And then obviously for like when you fight it's just a matter of eating as much

1:24:51 as you can to the point that you're not so full going into the changing

1:24:58 room and getting ready to get warmed

1:25:00 up and And one championship we're not allowed

1:25:03 to have any outside food in the changing

1:25:06 room anymore which is in my opinion quite silly.

1:25:09 Yeah.

1:25:09 But before like I would just be eating like little sugary sweets.

1:25:13 Okay.

1:25:14 Right up until I walk out.

1:25:17 Mhm.

1:25:16 Uh Yeah.

1:25:18 I was just curious because you know

1:25:20 our our food like the decision making has to be

1:25:22 so quick and it reminded me of I was

1:25:26 listening to uh Rogan had on this F1 trainer.

1:25:30 You know F1 race cars.

1:25:32 Um they are so I did not know.

1:25:36 I mean I should have known.

1:25:37 I just don't know that sport,

1:25:38 but they are so particular on food coffee caffeine for the drivers.

1:25:46 I mean cuz their decision has to be perfect.

1:25:49 That would be like for like cognitive function at the absolute highest level.

1:25:55 isn't fighting like your reaction?

1:25:57 Isn't it wouldn't it be similar?

1:25:59 Yeah, absolutely it is, but you what you have to remember is

1:26:02 that we've been drilling this these things for six weeks,

1:26:07 eight weeks every single day.

1:26:09 So that's installed in us.

1:26:11 Yeah.

1:26:11 So then when it comes to fighting it's not so much thinking it's reacting.

1:26:16 Reacting.

1:26:17 Okay.

1:26:17 And that's kind of Yeah.

1:26:19 So that's how the training camp and the drilling has to go

1:26:21 perfect and then when it comes to fighting it's just all the things

1:26:24 that you've been like okay when he throws a low kick

1:26:26 this is my reaction and this when this happens this is my reaction.

1:26:29 It's all just reaction time.

1:26:31 I was just thinking like we know we talked

1:26:33 about that one where I can't remember what it was,

1:26:36 but you did something and I said Yeah.

1:26:40 Your hand should have been up here.

1:26:43 Yep.

1:26:42 I was wondering if like more dialed in would would have done that?

1:26:48 Um I I I can't lie to you.

1:26:50 I was pretty dialed in that fight.

1:26:52 I was [laughter] as good as it gets.

1:26:54 No excuses for me.

1:26:56 Like I felt really good.

1:26:57 I was so It's the most confident.

1:26:59 I was I was so certain I was winning the championship that day.

1:27:02 Like training camp went perfect.

1:27:04 The weight cut was amazing.

1:27:06 The like like the the warm up before the fight everything felt really good.

1:27:12 Mhm.

1:27:12 That is just you know,

1:27:14 fighting is crazy because you have this window that if you don't

1:27:19 have full concentration for one second and how little is one second?

1:27:25 Yeah.

1:27:25 Like go and you lose and that's the crazy thing about fighting.

1:27:28 Mhm.

1:27:29 It doesn't matter how it it's it's you know,

1:27:31 difficult it is to be that locked in for that period.

1:27:34 And then in the UFC even even longer 25 minutes.

1:27:37 It's a very very difficult thing to stay dialed in for that long

1:27:40 and losing concentration for one second can

1:27:43 but for me it wasn't losing concentration.

1:27:46 It was just being [clears throat] overconfident in my strike.

1:27:48 I just thought I'm going to eat you up

1:27:50 with this body shot and I ended up taking one myself.

1:27:53 And the rest of the fight I learned from my mistake Yeah.

1:27:56 because anytime I went in for the body shot like I could see the left hand.

1:28:00 Like I knew what it was doing and I was like a bit more cautious.

1:28:04 Yeah, okay.

1:28:04 We live and we learn.

1:28:05 Yeah.

1:28:06 Unfortunately sometimes you need to get punched in the mouth For sure.

1:28:09 the hard lessons.

1:28:10 I understand.

1:28:10 Yeah.

1:28:11 That's the best way to learn usually.

1:28:14 [laughter] Yeah, that was just interesting.

1:28:14 I was like cuz I you know,

1:28:16 I'm fascinated about the science and improvements like when

1:28:19 it comes to the running and even you know,

1:28:21 with bow hunting different I'm always trying to be like

1:28:23 how can I get to a higher level than I've been.

1:28:26 And this fueling and the diet and the supplements like the BBC and the Wolverine

1:28:31 stack and like all this stuff that's kind of getting I'm always just like okay,

1:28:37 what is this going to do?

1:28:38 I mean can I get better?

1:28:39 Is this going to help me?

1:28:40 ask like a few questions before.

1:28:42 Like I was saying like I'm the exact same.

1:28:44 All we can do is try it.

1:28:46 You know what I mean?

1:28:48 Like be your own little guinea pig like

1:28:49 try that if it doesn't work you try that.

1:28:52 I got for this marathon I just did I wanted to carb load

1:28:56 and then I'm like like I got to take a[ __] before this race, right?

1:29:00 So I'm going to stop eating 12 hours before I leave for the marathon.

1:29:06 So I'm like can I leave for the marathon at six?

1:29:09 I got to stop eating at six at night.

1:29:13 What and what was your thought process for that?

1:29:15 So I could get the food down so I could go to the bathroom.

1:29:19 So, there'd be no food like the food would go

1:29:22 through my body and then I could get rid of it.

1:29:24 I'd still do my morning carb load,

1:29:26 but that'd be in my stomach kind of getting broke down to use for the race.

1:29:30 Ah.

1:29:30 The stuff from the day before, yes,

1:29:32 I pulled the carbs out for the fuel, but I don't need the waste, right?

1:29:36 So, I'm like, I'm going to do that 12 hours before,

1:29:39 then I'm going to eat in the morning.

1:29:41 I'm going to get up you didn't eat in the morning.

1:29:43 No, I did eat in the morning, too.

1:29:44 Yeah, so I had carbs in the morning,

1:29:45 but I just was worried about cuz you we do this huge carb load

1:29:50 and you know like when you go on a run and your stomach's full, it's worse.

1:29:53 worst feeling ever.

1:29:54 I can't run a 6-minute mile doing that.

1:29:57 So, I'm like, okay.

1:29:57 Cuz you're just you're just cuz you're just

1:29:59 trying to keep it down the whole time.

1:30:00 Right, so it's like I wanted I didn't want to deal with that and then I'm like,

1:30:04 okay, also I have this routine I do every day,

1:30:07 my cold plunge, my sauna, my whatever.

1:30:09 So, I'm like, okay, the race starts at 7:00.

1:30:11 I'm getting up at 4:00.

1:30:13 And I got up at 4:00 and started this whole process.

1:30:16 Did you do a sauna and everything before before the race?

1:30:19 Everything and ran the best race I've ever run.

1:30:22 There you go.

1:30:22 So, it's like the point is that and I tell my kids this, too,

1:30:26 is like everything matters.

1:30:29 Everything.

1:30:30 Being intentional.

1:30:31 Everything matters.

1:30:32 Everything you do, you need to have Some stuff matters this much,

1:30:35 some stuff matters this much.

1:30:37 It all matters.

1:30:38 So, I did everything and it paid off.

1:30:41 There you go.

1:30:41 But anyway, so I just get I get kind of just obsessed about like this knowledge

1:30:47 and like how can I get better and what could I tweak I'm the exact same.

1:30:50 You know.

1:30:51 That's that's exactly my mindset.

1:30:53 Is it?

1:30:53 I love it.

1:30:54 It's always been.

1:30:56 And that's like getting into running and things like

1:30:58 that is like people like before cuz I was running I

1:31:01 was always going on to like put people like talking

1:31:04 about me is like he's going to crush his knees,

1:31:05 he's not going to have a long Muay Thai career.

1:31:08 Yeah.

1:31:08 And I'm like, yeah, it looks like that from the outside,

1:31:10 but all I'm gaining is all this knowledge and so

1:31:16 And this be people like I had that job for 20-some years.

1:31:19 People when I was in my 30s I'd be over

1:31:22 running Pikes Peak every day and they'd say keep that up,

1:31:25 you won't be able to run after you're 40 and I'm like, and now I'm almost 60.

1:31:29 I run every day.

1:31:30 It's like, no.

1:31:31 My body's I was I told them, I'm like,

1:31:34 your body gets used to what you ask of it.

1:31:36 Always.

1:31:37 If you don't ask much, it just not going to give you much.

1:31:39 If you ask a lot, it's going to give you a lot.

1:31:41 It adapts.

1:31:42 I asked my body for a lot for decades and it's given me everything I wanted.

1:31:47 It's funny that you say that.

1:31:48 I've always said this as well.

1:31:50 Always say our body our body's like a a machine and whatever

1:31:56 we want to put it through at the start it might be difficult.

1:32:00 At the start it might have little like oil leaks

1:32:04 or like little tweaks with the with the bolts or whatever.

1:32:07 Yeah.

1:32:07 But eventually it will adapt and it will do whatever we

1:32:11 want it want it to do no matter how difficult it is.

1:32:14 Yeah, for sure.

1:32:15 It's a body's amazing.

1:32:17 It's our minds.

1:32:18 Our minds need to be convinced sometimes just hey,

1:32:21 do it do this, put in the work.

1:32:24 Everything matters.

1:32:25 Do it, trust me.

1:32:26 And we have a hard time doing that.

1:32:28 But if you do, sky's the limit.

1:32:30 But that it's the mind first, isn't it?

1:32:32 Because the body the mind will quit before the body does.

1:32:36 Yeah.

1:32:37 So we need to uh we need to have control of that.

1:32:40 Need it all, yeah.

1:32:41 I love it.

1:32:42 But I love your mindset.

1:32:44 I mean cuz it sounds like we have a similar mindset about Sounds like it, yeah.

1:32:47 self-improvement, just trying to get that how do

1:32:50 we get that next little edge over everyone else?

1:32:53 And I'm the same like every fight camp I have

1:32:56 so many fighters that I know and they're just like

1:33:00 they reach this peak of a fight camp and then

1:33:03 after the fight they just go and live not like athletes.

1:33:07 They'll go out and they'll eat bad food and they'll drink

1:33:10 and they won't train as hard as they were training in fight camp.

1:33:13 Khabib gets freaking fat as hell.

1:33:17 big.

1:33:17 I think he still grapples every day.

1:33:19 Like I think he just loves food a little bit too much.

1:33:21 Yeah, yeah.

1:33:21 But I mean like he he looks like he's still in the gym a lot.

1:33:24 I mean other other other boys like aren't even in the gym.

1:33:26 They're at the club.

1:33:27 They're just doing other things that doesn't put them so then when

1:33:32 they go into the new fight camp the bar is always the same.

1:33:36 They just go they're just trying to get to there again.

1:33:39 Whereas every time I go into a fight camp I set a I set a bar for myself.

1:33:44 Go past I want to go way past it each fight camp because then I'm carrying

1:33:49 all the stuff that I've done in the last

1:33:50 If you're injured and stuff then it's difficult.

1:33:52 But if you come out of a fight reasonably fresh,

1:33:54 you go straight back into training.

1:33:56 Yeah, it doesn't have to be fight

1:33:57 training cuz fight training is hard, it's miserable.

1:33:59 But you know, you you keep the fitness that you've

1:34:02 got and you you you build on it a little bit

1:34:04 and you build on the strength that you've done and then

1:34:06 when you go back into fight camp you're instead of being here,

1:34:10 you're maybe just here and now you've got all this space to push that bar again.

1:34:14 Mhm.

1:34:15 Every fight camp I'm looking to push the bar, push the bar.

1:34:17 How can I be better than the last fight?

1:34:19 How can I be better than the last fight?

1:34:20 I love that, yeah.

1:34:21 Do you do uh you know the lights?

1:34:24 Do you do those?

1:34:25 Um I don't I haven't done them too much.

1:34:29 I I don't know what you're talking about.

1:34:30 I think they're great and but I haven't done them too much.

1:34:33 I was just curious when we were talking about

1:34:35 like different foods and supplements or even this ketone.

1:34:38 Like cuz you could measure how quick you relax your reactions were based

1:34:43 on what you ate the day before with this food and then do

1:34:46 it again and be like I'm a little quicker I'm a little quicker

1:34:50 with with and just like you do that enough times and you're like,

1:34:54 okay, this is what I need to do to have the best reactions possible.

1:34:59 That that is And just like and I I was talking to this uh

1:35:03 another professional runner uh he won the gold in the 1500 at the last Olympics,

1:35:07 but there's this whole thing about double threshold training, which means

1:35:12 new Nor the the Norwegian guy?

1:35:14 Yeah.

1:35:14 Yeah, uh Jakob.

1:35:16 And so, he was training twice a day hard and I was just

1:35:19 like cuz I'm always thinking out of the box and I I asked Cole,

1:35:22 I said, what if you what if you could train three days or three

1:35:26 times a day hard if you didn't care what time of day it was?

1:35:29 Like you would be like I need to train,

1:35:31 then I'm going to be off for 6 hours, take a nap train again,

1:35:36 off for 6 hours, take a nap,

1:35:37 train like maybe one of the trainings was at 2:00 in the morning.

1:35:40 But you're still getting the rest so you got you got three

1:35:45 training sessions in when the most anybody else is getting is two,

1:35:49 over time you're going to be so much better.

1:35:51 100%.

1:35:53 Anyway, I'm always just thinking about what could we

1:35:55 think outside the box to get an edge over everyone?

1:35:58 I love that.

1:35:59 Anyway.

1:35:59 I'm the same but like that's I think that's

1:36:01 how I got so good at Muay Thai so quick.

1:36:04 Mhm.

1:36:04 Because the day that I started it,

1:36:06 I was straight on YouTube and I was just obsessed

1:36:09 with watching fights and watching I wasn't just watching fights,

1:36:12 I would watch like training camps and like behind the scenes.

1:36:16 I was just totally obsessed with it.

1:36:18 And I would just try and copy everything.

1:36:20 Mhm.

1:36:20 And I think that's how I got so good

1:36:22 but just being totally obsessed on how do I get better.

1:36:24 Yeah, just immersed in the life.

1:36:26 I mean that's what it takes.

1:36:28 You can't just dabble in it and be great.

1:36:30 You can't dabble and think you're going to be a champion.

1:36:32 That's what we spoke about earlier on.

1:36:33 It's like Yeah.

1:36:34 people would love for us to sit here and say right,

1:36:38 how do you become what you've became and how

1:36:41 are you one of the best runners in the world,

1:36:42 the best bow hunter in the world, how am I the champion?

1:36:45 You just train a few times a week and fun.

1:36:50 Yeah.

1:36:49 And it's not that.

1:36:51 [laughter] People want us to say that.

1:36:52 Yeah.

1:36:53 But it's not the answer.

1:36:54 And the answer that they want deep down they know what the answer is.

1:36:59 They just want us to say something else.

1:37:00 Mhm.

1:37:01 And then when you tell them the real answer they're like,

1:37:03 I don't have time for that.

1:37:06 [laughter] You know what I love?

1:37:06 I I seen a video I seen a video of a fan Goggins is out running and it's

1:37:12 like it's a hot day and he's out himself

1:37:14 and he he the guy stops him and he's like, oh Goggins, I'm down right now.

1:37:18 I'd really love you to give me some inspiration, some motivation.

1:37:22 And Goggins is like, do you see anybody out here right now?

1:37:25 He's like, uh do I have to say anything?

1:37:28 What you see, this is your[ __] motivation.

1:37:30 That's right.

1:37:31 People people want you to say they they think it

1:37:33 but the guy the thing is is he sees him out here himself.

1:37:37 Nobody's here.

1:37:38 It's far too hot to be running.

1:37:41 What more do you need him to say?

1:37:42 Action speaks louder than words.

1:37:43 That's it.

1:37:45 I Goggins has another one that I love and it's so true,

1:37:48 but he just says, hey, there's no part-time savages.

1:37:51 Love that.

1:37:53 Either you're savage or you're not.

1:37:54 It and most people aren't.

1:37:56 Yeah.

1:37:58 [laughter] But you can't just half-ass there's no part-time.

1:38:00 You're not a badass half the time and then soft just like,

1:38:03 no, this is full-time, baby.

1:38:05 Did you have anything else?

1:38:06 Got one more.

1:38:07 Okay.

1:38:09 So, there's this backyard ultra runner that we're

1:38:11 fans of, but I really like his mindset and I kind of wanted to get

1:38:14 your opinion if the fighting mindset's kind of similar,

1:38:17 but his first two backyard races he was really focused on winning,

1:38:22 and and he lost both of them.

1:38:25 And then he had a mindset shift where he was his goal

1:38:29 instead of winning was to meet a new version of himself,

1:38:32 to push himself further than he ever had before.

1:38:35 And for whatever reason, uh the result of that has been he's won his last,

1:38:40 you know, five or six [snorts] backyard ultras.

1:38:43 Do you think that's a good mindset to have with fighting

1:38:45 or should you always go in with the purpose of winning?

1:38:48 So, I think that's an amazing mindset [clears throat] for fighting not so much.

1:38:56 It's not that it's not a good mindset for fighting but you know,

1:38:59 fighting isn't about taking part.

1:39:02 It's never about taking part, it's about winning at all costs.

1:39:04 Just winning only.

1:39:05 Because if you don't win, you can get hurt.

1:39:07 Mhm.

1:39:07 And I don't mean hurt like your legs are messed up,

1:39:10 I mean like life-threatening damage.

1:39:13 Yeah.

1:39:13 Brain, you know, you know, like you can get really hot.

1:39:16 This mindset, however, maybe not so much for fighting,

1:39:20 but me personally, I love it.

1:39:22 Because yeah, it's just in in instead of because you're saying you want to win,

1:39:28 so it's like it's like to impress other people.

1:39:32 But then, it sounds like the main the mindset shift is like he's went within.

1:39:38 And now it he's only looking for self-improvement.

1:39:41 It's like he's got the blinkers on like a horse.

1:39:44 He now doesn't care about other people.

1:39:46 He only cares about pushing himself to his limits.

1:39:49 Focus on what matters.

1:39:50 But in doing this little mindset change, it's better doing it.

1:39:53 He is still battling, but he's not set such as big expectation.

1:39:58 And with this big expectation comes with all this pressure and and uh yeah,

1:40:02 I think I don't know if I explained that very well, but Yeah, I know.

1:40:05 That That makes sense to me.

1:40:07 For for me, fighting like Yeah, and so training camp is you can try

1:40:13 and be the best version of yourself every time,

1:40:15 or you can have this mindset singularly in training sessions.

1:40:21 So, I like I like this for like not not not the fight itself,

1:40:26 but for like maybe every session on the lead-up to the fight is okay,

1:40:30 I'm going to try to be better than I was yesterday.

1:40:32 I'm going to try to be better than I was yesterday.

1:40:33 I'm going to try and that is I'm going

1:40:35 to see if my recovery's getting what just everything.

1:40:38 When it comes to fighting, there's only one thing on your mind.

1:40:41 Just win, baby.

1:40:42 First or last.

1:40:43 If you ain't first, you're last.

1:40:45 I love it.

1:40:45 That's that.

1:40:46 Yeah, that that makes sense to me.

1:40:48 That's a good good answer, for sure.

1:40:50 But uh man, what a fun discussion.

1:40:53 Yeah, absolutely.

1:40:54 I've loved that.

1:40:54 I mean Absolutely loved that.

1:40:55 Yeah.

1:40:56 Super thankful, Nico.

1:40:57 Thank you so much for having me here.

1:40:58 Thank you so much for coming.

1:41:00 First person ever from Scotland here.

1:41:05 [laughter] You got the Scotland title here.

1:41:06 Thank you very much.

1:41:07 All right, guys.

1:41:08 I hope you guys enjoyed this discussion.

1:41:10 This is Nico.

1:41:10 Give him a follow.

1:41:11 He's a badass.

1:41:12 Keep hammering.

1:41:13 See you soon, guys.