The Art of the Ejection with Aaron Boone & Joe West | Sources Tell Jeff Passan
ESPN MLB
0:08 The ejection in Major League Baseball is dying.
0:11 One of the games timehonored traditions, an umpire and a manager face to face,
0:16 screaming at one another until they're both beat red,
0:19 is at its lowest level in generations,
0:21 and nothing is stopping its slow, prolonged descent.
0:25 Instant replay was the first culprit,
0:27 rendering arguments about calls on the bases,
0:29 fair foul judgments, fan interference, and home runs moot.
0:33 And now the automated ball strike challenge system that in so
0:37 many ways has been good for baseball has one obvious negative consequence.
0:41 No more of this.
0:44 He's out and he's out of here.
0:45 It's fudge and blueberries according to Kevin Cash.
0:48 Might as well get tossed and have his Advil early.
0:50 Goodbye.
0:50 Goodbye.
0:51 Oh my gosh.
0:52 Davey's getting his MONEY WORTH NOW.
0:55 YEAH.
0:56 No other sport could come close to matching
0:58 the fury exhibited and even encouraged in Major League Baseball.
1:02 Ejections give us dirt kicking and base chucking.
1:05 They give us phrases we didn't know.
1:07 Our ass is in the jackpot now.
1:10 And inconceivable moments.
1:12 His name is Philip Wellman.
1:13 He's been watching way too many Rambo movies.
1:16 Umpires have thrown out managers,
1:18 players, coaches, executives, and even cameramen.
1:21 More than 15,000 total.
1:23 And none in the modern era did so more than Joe West,
1:27 the all-time leader in games umpired and ejector of nearly 200 men.
1:33 He's a strong man.
1:35 Nice.
1:35 Perhaps the last hope for the ejection is New York Yankees manager Aaron Boon,
1:39 who started his managerial career at a torid pace of getting run,
1:43 but has managed to find himself ejected just once this season.
1:48 Today, we bring them together.
1:50 Joe West and Aaron Boon, baseball lifers that understand the ejection is
1:54 quite literally worth fighting to keep alive.
1:57 He's not going to back away from confrontation.
1:59 It's just not in his makeup.
2:01 To celebrate the ejection and answer the question, can it be saved?
2:07 Joe West, Aaron Boon, thank you for joining us today.
2:11 We're going to start with a very simple question here.
2:15 And Joe, I'll defer to you being the veteran in this situation.
2:19 How would you define or characterize
2:22 the relationship between umpires and managers?
2:27 Well, they're supposed to be the only people that talk to the umpires.
2:31 They're supposed the players are supposed
2:32 to deal through the manager and the manager
2:35 is supposed to be the communication with the the umpires and the umpiring crew.
2:41 Uh in fact, uh I can remember my very first year in spring training ever.
2:45 I was at a minor league camp in Lakeland,
2:47 Florida with the Tigers and uh we had an argument during this game
2:53 and the young umpire behind the plate u he got chewed out by a player.
2:59 So being the redneck that I am,
3:01 I went over and chewed the player out and uh and when the game was over,
3:05 Ed Catalinus, who was the head of the camp,
3:08 invite told everyone they had to meet at the tower.
3:11 Now, the tower was the centerpiece of the four minor league fields.
3:16 And as we're walking off, he said, "Uhuh, you will not address the umpires.
3:22 Your manager's job is to address the umpires for you as a player.
3:26 They have a job.
3:27 You're looking for one." And and soon as he
3:30 said that, the umpire that had the problem that day,
3:33 he started walking like he was on a cloud.
3:35 So, he was happy.
3:37 Aaron, what makes a good umpire?
3:39 really good ball strikes.
3:41 I start with that.
3:42 That's that's number one.
3:44 Like, and by the way, I'm talking to one of the best to ever do that.
3:49 Like, Joe, you could have your arguments
3:52 with and you could have your runins with.
3:55 And when I get that umpire grid every week of saying,
3:59 "Who's our umpires this week?" And I would see Joe West on my board,
4:04 I knew I was going to get a well wellofficiated game, if you will.
4:07 So, first and foremost, I want them to be great ball strikers.
4:11 Um, but then have some kind of um presence and temperament
4:17 to them and that and I think that's different for everyone.
4:20 You know, I think authenticity is important, you know,
4:23 and I want I want that umpire to feel like when things get a little haywire,
4:28 there's a question that there's a sense
4:30 of control that they have on the situation.
4:35 Well, we we have seen things uh spiral out of control plenty of times.
4:41 We will get to that.
4:42 I want to start though back in the 1970s.
4:46 Aaron, you were born in 1973.
4:49 Joe, at 24 years old, you got your first big league umpiring job
4:55 uh in September uh September 14th, I believe, 1976.
5:01 Less than a year later on September 8th,
5:04 1977, you went through your first ejection.
5:10 And of all the people for you to eject the first time,
5:14 it was Hall of Famer Joe Tory, who again you ejected less than a year later.
5:21 When at 24 years old, you are starting off with a guy and I know
5:26 Joe Tori hadn't won multiple World Series at that point,
5:28 but he was still Joe Tory.
5:30 What sort of gumption does it take to run
5:34 a guy with Joe Tori's reputation that early in your career?
5:39 Well, I don't I don't think it has anything to do with who it was or what it
5:43 is because I think uh and I've I've said
5:45 this before and this is I met with the players
5:48 association one time when I was president of the union
5:51 and I said I I've been umpiring over 35 years up here and I've never had
5:54 an ejection or never kicked anybody out of the game.
5:58 And everybody looked around the room like, "Are you crazy?" And I said,
6:03 "They they kicked themselves out." And for the most part,
6:08 that that is what happens.
6:09 Uh and the guy who got first was not Joe Tory.
6:13 It was this young ball player named Henderson.
6:16 Steve Henderson.
6:17 And he called Steve Henderson.
6:18 And Joe Tori.
6:20 I believe that was on the same date.
6:22 At the same time.
6:23 Yeah.
6:24 Yeah.
6:24 And Joe came out to take up for him because
6:26 he was managing the Mets and they weren't very good.
6:28 Actually, he was a player manager at that time.
6:31 And u so I ended up kicking both of them out and I didn't think much about it.
6:37 Of course, you look look back on over my career.
6:41 That wasn't the only time I got joy.
6:43 So, so sometimes he would say things that uh just to kind of irk you, you know,
6:52 like we had a play at third base and the young umpire at third base,
6:56 he didn't get the call right.
6:57 So Joe went out and had his say
7:00 with the young umpire and the young umpire didn't do anything.
7:02 And as Joe's walking back to the dugout,
7:05 he said uh something like that just and I'm looking at the picture.
7:09 I'm not even looking at him and he sees that I'm not looking at him.
7:12 So he says, "That just shows me how hor you guys really are."
7:17 So I launched him out of the game and and uh sure enough,
7:21 uh Jack Buck and Mike Shannon ate me alive on the air.
7:26 Of course, they didn't know Joe said anything.
7:28 They said, "Look at Joe West putting his nose in where
7:31 it doesn't belong." But if if I don't kick him out there,
7:34 then the catcher thinks it's okay to tell me something like that.
7:38 So Joe kicked himself out again.
7:40 So, but uh and and here's another thing you you got to realize u
7:46 that part of the umpire's job is to control the temperament of the game.
7:51 And uh and I say this all the time.
7:53 The first responsibility an umpire has is to represent the game of baseball.
7:59 It's best in the best interest of the game.
8:02 Now, everybody says that's the commissioner's line,
8:04 but that's the commissioner's job is to make money for the owners.
8:09 our job is is to take care of the game.
8:12 Our second responsibility is to take care of our profession.
8:16 And in both those instance, if I don't kick somebody out of the game there,
8:19 I'm not taking care of either one of them.
8:21 And your third responsibility is do what you
8:23 know in your heart is morally honest and correct.
8:26 And if you do those three things in that order,
8:30 nothing you do will be wrong, but you will get criticized for it.
8:33 And uh of course you're not getting in this job to not ever take
8:37 criticism because you know going in half the people that are there hate you,
8:42 half the people there love you depending on which way you made the call.
8:46 But the point is uh our job is to really take care of the game.
8:50 And part of that is to take care of the conduct of the players and the managers.
8:54 And sometimes it could be a spectator or a ball boy or whatever.
8:59 I actually kicked a cameraman out of a game at Chase Stadium one time,
9:03 but uh that was because he he showed the players the replay
9:07 in the dugout and uh he wasn't supposed to do that, so I ejected him.
9:12 Uh but you know, here's a funny thing.
9:14 When when Aaron played, he never said much to any Omar.
9:21 And when his dad played,
9:23 he was one of the the best people you could work behind the plate with.
9:27 And when they both became managers, I think I kicked them each out one time.
9:31 But we we are going to get to that, Joe,
9:37 because the ejection of Bob Boon is is fantastic.
9:40 And Bob, of course, played uh in the 1970s and 1980s.
9:45 And Joe, you you have ejected players, managers, as you said,
9:51 cameramen, a total of 196 ejections in your career.
9:55 And I was looking back over them.
9:57 There's a correction there because I didn't get Zimmer.
9:59 That one where it says I kicked out Zimmer.
10:01 I didn't kick him out.
10:02 Doug Hardy did.
10:04 All right.
10:05 I want to retract one where Hunter Wendlestead kicked me out.
10:08 It was actually should have been the fan.
10:10 So, I want one retracted for me.
10:12 Well, that's exactly right.
10:13 That shouldn't be taken off your list.
10:15 But but you know what?
10:16 It's really sad when they believe that you said it.
10:23 So you have you have to worry about is did my reputa reputation precede me?
10:30 But you you did get kicked out from a fan.
10:33 And I was probably on my way that day because that was
10:35 the first inning and I was already already charged up a little bit.
10:38 So Hunter Hunter was probably a a prelude of things to come.
10:44 Yeah.
10:44 Well, I I can give you
10:45 next the next time I had Hunter, I I yelled out to him from the field.
10:49 I said, "Hunter, this is my voice.
10:52 Just so let's establish it early." Okay.
10:56 And he he he laughed that.
10:59 Yeah.
10:59 Yeah.
10:59 Well, I worked with Hunter and I worked with his dad, too.
11:02 So, I worked with uh and I worked with two rungis and I worked with both hers.
11:09 And so, I'm Some of this is a a family tradition, I guess you'd call it.
11:15 I don't envy what Aaron has to do in any way,
11:18 shape, or form because first of all, you're in a volatile market.
11:22 Uh if if you don't win, uh uh the the whole city's against you.
11:29 Uh and and that's another funny story.
11:31 When when they hired Joe Tory, you were talking about Tory earlier.
11:35 Uh Steinbrunner didn't really know who he was.
11:39 Arthur Richmond was the guy that talked Steinbrer into hiring him.
11:43 And when they hired Joe Tory the next day the back of the what
11:47 is that the Daily News it has the back page is a sports page.
11:51 The next the next day the headline said Joe who and Steinbrer blew a gasket.
11:58 Arthur told us later he says I thought I was
12:00 fired right then but because no one in New York
12:03 really realized here's a guy that signed with the Braves
12:05 and he you can you can say what you want.
12:08 He was sirly he was sarcastic.
12:10 I remember one day I went over to tell Jean Gizelman that Eric Greg had
12:13 bought a a pair of custommade leather pants and Tori looked up at me and said,
12:18 "What herd did they kill to make those?" Pretty good.
12:22 It's pretty good, Joe.
12:23 It was interesting, Joe,
12:25 looking back through your list of ejections and in the 1980s specifically,
12:31 I see brawls and I see brushbacks and I see fighting and I see
12:38 a lot of these things that really don't exist quite as much in the game anymore.
12:44 And and Aaron, you you grew up in that.
12:47 You know, your father played essentially your entire childhood.
12:51 You were born in 73.
12:52 His big league career started in' 72, ended in 1990.
12:57 How much did that really inform your baseball perspective
13:02 and what you carry into your time as manager now?
13:05 Cuz I remember seeing a video of you and Eduardo
13:08 Perez talking about growing up in a big league clubhouse.
13:11 It was about 10 years ago and it was just brilliant stuff.
13:13 And you said after you do that, it's all you know and it's all you want to be.
13:18 Yeah.
13:18 I I hear I hear like football coaches, you know,
13:22 this guy, his dad was a high school football coach or whatever.
13:25 You just grew up in that.
13:26 That was me.
13:27 You know, I was riding my big wheel in the clubhouse of Veteran
13:30 Stadium from the time the age I was riding the big wheel.
13:34 My brother and I shared a locker at Veteran Stadium when I was 7 years old.
13:39 Um, I had a dad that took me to the ballpark with him all the time.
13:44 So, you know, he from birth to, you know,
13:48 I was in Clear Water for Florida at spring
13:51 training or Palm Springs with the Angels all, you know, all the time.
13:55 So, I grew up in it.
13:57 You know, at the end of the day, it's really all I know.
14:00 Well, um, and it's it's the family business and I'm 53 now and, uh, you know,
14:08 I don't I don't know what else I would do,
14:10 you know, that's not that doesn't involve baseball.
14:14 So, um, I had the greatest childhood ever.
14:18 I was around a lot of great teams, a lot of great players.
14:22 Um, and and it certainly was a big part of shaping me and who I am.
14:28 you were talking about uh ejections and fights and stuff like that.
14:31 You got to remember that uh when uh
14:35 when your dad was playing in the National League Yeah.
14:39 there was no DH, right?
14:42 And and the the best part of not having a DH was it
14:46 sped the game up and no one wants to really talk about that.
14:50 But when when you got the seventh, eighth,
14:53 and ninth hitter coming up in the National League with no DH,
14:56 the pitchers went right after seven, eight, and nine.
14:59 I used to hurry hitters into the box.
15:02 Uh, let's get in the batters.
15:03 Come on, get up here.
15:05 And the hitters would go back and complain to the office
15:07 that we were rushing them to get in the box.
15:10 Well, now they put a clock on them.
15:12 So, what what do you want to do?
15:14 But uh I got I got in trouble for saying that the the Yankees and the Red
15:18 Sox are not following the edict to speed
15:21 up the game that the commissioners put out.
15:23 And uh and it wasn't uh a few years well,
15:28 this is the story about uh Big Poppy when he
15:32 was uh when he first came to the big leagues.
15:34 He was a twin and they put him in as a defensive
15:38 replacement in ninth inning of a spring training game.
15:41 Well, that that's not where he's going to play, you know.
15:44 He's he's not a first baseman.
15:46 Anyway, when he finishes throwing the ball around the infielders,
15:48 he came back toward me and I said, "You know, I hope you play in this league
15:51 a long time." And he said, "Well, thank you.
15:53 Thank thank you very much." And I said, "Cuz as long as you're in this league,
15:56 I won't be the ugliest guy in it." He put his head.
16:01 I don't think he spoke to me for 13 years.
16:05 So now he goes and he plays he gets traded to the Red Sox.
16:08 He becomes their allstar player in the MVP of the playoffs, MVP of the world.
16:13 He could have run for mayor of Boston.
16:17 Yep.
16:16 And then he announces his retirement.
16:18 He said, uh, he came to bat in May that year that he announced his retirement.
16:22 He says, I have something to tell you.
16:26 I said, I don't want to hear.
16:27 Get in the box.
16:28 You take too long to play.
16:29 He says, no, no, just let me tell you one thing.
16:31 I said, all right, tell me one thing, then get in the box.
16:34 He said, you know, I retired.
16:37 I don't care if you retire.
16:38 Get in the box.
16:39 He said, "Just All right, hurry up.
16:41 Tell me what you got to tell me." He said,
16:43 "Next year, you'll be the youngest guy in the league." Oh, that's awesome.
16:52 So, he remembered all those years.
16:55 That's great.
16:58 Yeah.
16:58 Listen, players players never forget and and we know this.
17:02 Um, Aaron, I I think it's hard to forget your first ejection.
17:07 I I don't know if I don't know if this is like meant to be
17:13 that you have turned into the most
17:15 prolific modern manager in terms of getting ejected,
17:19 but you did get run from your first major league game.
17:23 You were one for three.
17:24 You drove in a run, you stole a base, and then you got booted from the game.
17:31 What happened that day?
17:34 Yeah.
17:34 So, um, got a base hit off Matt Morris, drove in a run, stole second.
17:41 Joe Oliver got a base hit to right.
17:43 I'm coming around third.
17:44 Old Bush Stadium.
17:46 Play at the plate.
17:48 I slide kind of to the side of the catcher
17:50 and tap the plate and and into like a popup slide.
17:55 And it's um Gary Darlings, the home plate umpire.
18:00 And I pop up and I think I'm safe.
18:03 You know, I've tapped the plate, so I think.
18:07 And darling, you're out.
18:11 And And I wasn't so much going to argue.
18:13 I wasn't protesting the call.
18:15 I just kind of like pop up slide, took my helmet off, and slammed it down.
18:20 And it catapults.
18:21 And I mean, Gary, I mean, it's proh hop.
18:24 And you're out of here.
18:26 And I mean, you talk about panic.
18:30 I I'm scared to death now.
18:31 I'm like I'm I'm black ballalled.
18:37 They ain't Quest Tech doesn't exist yet.
18:39 There's no Like this is old school.
18:41 Like I I'm I'm gonna be the black sheep now.
18:45 And I'm walking off the field.
18:47 I didn't argue or anything.
18:48 I'm just walking off the field like if if you ever get the video,
18:51 you I'm walking off and I'm in a panic like what have I just done?
18:56 And I go up into the clubhouse at Bush Stadium
18:59 and it's kind of a veteran team and and that back then
19:01 the starting pitchers and pitchers would sit up in the clubhouse if
19:04 the game was on TV back when they would chart the game.
19:08 I walked up there and it's like John Smiley, Dave Berba, Jeff Brantley,
19:13 and they look at me and they just start laughing and you know they go,
19:18 "Ah, we got your fine kid.
19:20 We we liked it." So the next day I go out,
19:22 I'm playing third base and the rotation of the umpires darling's at third base
19:28 and he's out there and he's got his arms crossed and mind you like I'm panicked.
19:35 I am like I don't know what I I
19:39 mean I walk out there just sheepishly like head down.
19:43 I walk up.
19:43 Hey man, I wasn't arguing.
19:45 I didn't mean anything by it.
19:46 And he just kind of looked at me dead serious,
19:49 arms crossed like I asked around about you.
19:52 You're all right.
19:53 And I was like kind of exhaled.
19:56 And Gary and I had a really cool kind of relationship
20:00 and even bond from that point on just because you know he
20:05 I think he got the levity of the moment too and like
20:09 the irony of the first game ever and getting tossed and everything.
20:13 So in a way it kind of bonded Gary and I throughout our careers.
20:17 So that was my first game.
20:19 Yeah.
20:20 You You know what I love about this though?
20:23 I don't know that Gary Darling needed to run you that day.
20:29 And I say this because we're going to fast forward to June 17th, 2003.
20:36 Aaron, you are playing third base for the Cincinnati Reds.
20:39 You are hitting fifth.
20:41 The manager of the Reds at the time is Bob Boon, your father.
20:46 And Juan Castro took his helmet off in game
20:52 and I don't know if he chucked it to the ground.
20:54 I haven't seen the video of it, but Juan Castro's helmet came off.
20:59 And Joe, you did not eject Juan Castro that day because you had the plate
21:05 and I believe you fined Juan Castro $100 for losing his equipment on the field.
21:14 Can you explain that?
21:15 cuz I didn't realize that umpires had the ability until you told me a couple
21:20 days ago had the ability to find guys instead of running them from the game.
21:26 Well, when baseball was first put together and they
21:29 gave umpires the authority to run the game,
21:31 they were allowed to find players on the field for anything.
21:35 And they eventually took that away from of course
21:38 we're talking about back in the 20s.
21:41 So when they would throw a helmet or a helmet
21:44 or a bat or whatever in disgust or the glove or whatever, uh they'd get ejected.
21:51 But the the powers that be like the owners and the management of the teams,
21:56 they didn't want to lose their players because they were upset about something.
22:00 So, they came up with this idea that if
22:03 we'll just find the player $100 for throwing equipment,
22:06 what what Aaron just called equipment violation, that'll be good enough.
22:12 So, sure enough, uh they put this in place
22:15 so that there wouldn't be as many ejections.
22:18 There's still going to be arguments.
22:19 There's still going to be reasons for people to be upset.
22:22 So that was the rule of thumb that if they threw
22:26 equipment or something then you'd find him for throwing the equipment.
22:32 And I mean there'd be times when it'd get out of hand.
22:35 You know I I find Kirk Gibson one day
22:38 for throwing his bat and then he threw his helmet.
22:40 So I find him a second time.
22:41 Then he threw his bat and gloves.
22:42 I threw him out.
22:43 I said that's enough.
22:44 Anyway, the the point I'm getting at is in the World Series in 92,
22:53 Bobby Cox was so mad because they had a strike out, a throw to second base,
22:58 and they got a double play out of it and Bobby Cox slammed
23:01 a helmet down in the dugout and it bounced into the middle of the infield.
23:06 Well, I thought Jeff Blowser threw the helmet because he was the hitter.
23:11 So I went over and find Blowser and he's going,
23:13 "What'd I do?" And it wasn't him.
23:16 Terry Pendleton's on the top step of the dugout.
23:18 He's going, "He didn't do it.
23:20 He didn't do it." So I said, "Okay,
23:22 who did it?" And Bobby Cox said, "I did it." So see you later.
23:28 We don't have a equipment violation for you guys.
23:30 So he got kicked.
23:32 So that is ju that's how you ran
23:35 Bobby Cox from an actual World Series game, right?
23:39 Yeah.
23:40 Yeah.
23:40 Wow.
23:41 I'll tell you what, I think I think an equipment
23:44 violation got me kicked out once in my career
23:47 because I just I struck out, slammed my helmet down,
23:51 and I I think it I think it was Doug Eddings.
23:58 Yeah.
23:57 Just real calmly just said, "That's an equipment violation." And I went back,
24:03 "I got your equipment violation." And that was that.
24:09 Aaron, you know, you saw your dad get run enough.
24:14 Um, you saw plenty of other managers throughout your childhood,
24:18 in your time in the big leagues.
24:21 How does all of that inform your demeanor when you are inside of that dugout?
24:28 And if we could go specifically to your most famous ejection, uh,
24:33 the one that is now, uh, commonly known as Savages in the Box.
24:39 um which for my money uh is the best
24:42 ejection of at least the last decade, maybe longer.
24:46 Um does some of that when you were growing
24:49 up make you what you are inside of that dugout?
24:55 Um I don't know.
24:56 I mean my I always when I was playing I always
25:00 wanted my manager to be authentic and that's different for everybody.
25:06 So players will sniff out a fraud.
25:09 So I'm not Look, I'm I'm a product.
25:12 I'm who I am genetically and you're wired a certain way and then
25:17 how you're brought up and all those things influence who you are.
25:21 So, you know, I am I am who I am.
25:25 Um but you know I as far as the ejection
25:30 stuff the only reason really in the last
25:33 10 15 years there's not much to get ejected out other than the strike zone which
25:41 right you know because because we can scrutinize it so
25:44 much and because one of my things that I demand of our players and that I hammer
25:50 on our players all the time is controlling the strike zone.
25:53 So if I'm going to be hard on them about that and demanding
25:57 of them of that, then that is the thing that I tend to fight for.
26:02 And so I I certainly cross the line from time to time.
26:07 I understand that.
26:08 But it's just a product of that is what
26:12 you know the foundation of our team has been over
26:16 the years for a lot and and I hold
26:19 our players to that account and want them to control that.
26:23 So I I tend to fight for that
26:25 and he and and he should fight for that.
26:27 He should he should say something that there's
26:28 something you know there was an American League umpire
26:31 one time he he told me he said you
26:32 know your strike zone is like a television set.
26:35 He said every now and then you need somebody like Billy
26:38 Martin or Earl Weaver to come out and adjust the knobs.
26:43 So, but uh and and you're right,
26:46 the the the crazy thing about the young umpires are getting
26:50 in the big leagues today is I don't think they have enough
26:53 experience yet because when I worked in the minor leagues until
26:58 I got to Triple A, you worked the plate every other day.
27:01 Oh wow.
27:02 There were only two umpires.
27:04 Yeah.
27:04 You worked the plate, the next day you worked the bases.
27:06 The next day you worked the plate, the next day you worked the bases.
27:09 So I had I want to say 400 plate jobs before I ever went to the big leagues.
27:17 Right.
27:17 And we got guys that don't have 400 plate jobs now.
27:20 So Right.
27:21 Yeah.
27:21 And that and that's that's a big thing.
27:23 And and you're right, if they can work the plate,
27:26 you know, uh they're they've got a good chance.
27:30 Uh yeah, the uh I mean and and it's funny cuz when I was coming up,
27:36 we had guys that had big strikes.
27:38 Lee Wire, if you got there in the air and between the dugouts,
27:42 it was strike one or two.
27:43 He didn't he'd never call you out on a bad pitch on strike three,
27:46 but strike one or two, he wanted you to be swinging the bat.
27:50 Yeah.
27:49 And uh and that's all changed.
27:52 I mean, I Yeah.
27:53 And and but that's a good thing.
27:55 That's a good change
27:57 because now the umpires are all trying to call the same thing.
27:59 And that's a very good thing.
28:01 And and they have moved the needle and it's
28:03 way more uniform across the board of what you're getting.
28:08 Yeah.
28:07 But I will tell you anytime if there was an important game,
28:13 I wanted Joe West in that crew and I wanted him calling balls and strikes.
28:18 Well, you're very good.
28:19 Yeah.
28:19 He doesn't need to be complimenting you here.
28:21 And and listen, we we we know that Aaron has a
28:28 let's say a high threshold uh of expectations for ball strike umpiring.
28:34 Um that that day, poor Brennan Miller.
28:38 Um he was he was missing stuff, right?
28:42 Like there were there were some calls that were off.
28:45 Um but the entire crew was Joe in that crew.
28:48 Joe wasn't in that crew.
28:50 No.
28:50 No.
28:51 Because there was one time I was giving it to a younger guy in Joe's crew.
28:56 I don't know what year that would be Jeremy Rehack I believe maybe.
29:01 And and Joe said quit bullying these young umpires.
29:06 He told me and the next day we're at Yankee Stadium.
29:10 He was at third base.
29:11 Joe was.
29:12 And I was yelling from the dugout and and I finally got I finally got
29:17 my confrontation with Joe West all the way
29:19 from the first base dugout Yankee Stadium.
29:21 I ran out to third base and we had it out.
29:24 I said I'm not going after the young guy.
29:27 I'm going after the I'm going I'm going after the big dog now.
29:33 Do you guys think that that there is an art form to the ejection?
29:39 Whether it's the performance of the manager himself
29:44 or or maybe with the umpire sometimes the things
29:48 that you don't say because umpires they they tend to to wear it a little bit.
29:55 That that is part of the job, is it not?
29:59 Well, I noticed that when I kicked people out with a wave of an arm,
30:02 they they had a reaction.
30:03 But when I kicked them out like that, they really made them mad.
30:10 Like just wave your hand.
30:11 You're you're done.
30:12 Get out.
30:14 Just as a as opposed to like throwing him out, you just shoe him away.
30:19 Yeah.
30:20 I kicked out Von Hayes one day because he was yelling at Harry Windstead,
30:23 but I didn't even say a word to him.
30:24 I went over to We went over this I think the other day.
30:28 Nick Lever was the manager.
30:29 I said, "We need a new pinch runner for Vaughn." He said,
30:33 "Is he hurt?" I said, "No, but he's been ejected.
30:38 So, and then Harry comes down to see what the problem was.
30:41 And Vaughn was wasn't very smart.
30:43 He said, "Uh, I wasn't yelling at Joe.
30:46 I was yelling at you, Harry." But I mean, some of these things are hilarious.
30:53 Uh, but uh you you can't some we should
30:58 all write a book and put out this ejection,
31:00 that ejection, this happened, and that happened.
31:03 And uh yeah, everyone's different.
31:06 Every agent different.
31:08 I I've I got one this year and I didn't even really argue.
31:13 Yeah, that's right.
31:14 Last year was when the fan got you kicked out.
31:16 That's right.
31:16 You only got one, but I let Hunter have it after the fact.
31:22 I usually get my money's worth.
31:24 But sometimes there are some times you're like, I'm I'm not even gonna I'm good.
31:32 Yeah.
31:31 Yeah.
31:31 Aaron, the the the only you have won this year and it was it was on a b
31:37 and you are you are coming up very well short of your career pace at this point.
31:43 You have 47 year.
31:47 No.
31:47 No.
31:48 And I think it's because of ABS.
31:51 Um, I thought I thought I thought the ABS was actually going to lead to me
31:56 maybe more just because it was another thing to be upset with them about.
32:01 And it almost got me one time this year cuz
32:04 I was mad that a particular umpire kept missing down,
32:10 you know, and he's looking over at me like, "Then challenge." I'm like, "Well,
32:14 we don't want to challenge this one pitch in the second,
32:16 but we've challenged it a couple times and you've missed it both times.
32:20 Make the adjustment now.
32:21 Let's go.
32:22 So, yeah.
32:25 You do enjoy lecturing umpires a little, don't you?
32:30 Like you you said it to to Brennan uh Brennan Miller, bear down, be better.
32:37 You said to him, uh what was it?
32:40 It was something to the effect of, um
32:44 you are going to be very disappointed in yourself.
32:47 Like it's almost like you take a paternalistic approach with these guys.
32:51 Like I expect better out of you.
32:55 Well, I've heard that.
32:56 I've heard that too.
32:57 A guy yelled out at this one umpire one time and said,
32:59 "You're better than that." And he turned around and said, "No, I ain't.
33:01 This is it." Aaron has the best pitching staff right now in the American
33:06 League and arguably in all of Major League Baseball, Joe.
33:10 And you know now that ABS is actually in place and Aaron you understand it's
33:18 hard to argue with a robot like that's not something that you are going to win.
33:23 Um what can you get ejected for anymore?
33:26 Have you had like brainstorming sessions like how
33:30 am I actually going to going to do this?
33:32 Because there there are some points when managers
33:35 say to themselves I got to get run here.
33:37 You just make a decision and you go out and do it.
33:39 that you've never done.
33:41 It has always been spur of the moment.
33:45 Yes.
33:45 There's been times there's been times I've said to my bench
33:47 coach like I'm not going to be long for this one,
33:49 but never never like I need to go get my guys
33:52 fired up or I need to and it never anything like that.
33:56 Now, I might go interject myself because I feel like a player might be
34:01 about to cross a line so it's going to be me instead of them, right?
34:05 But never I need to go do this now.
34:09 Yeah, you shouldn't bait him like that, Jeff.
34:11 That's I mean, you got him on the spot now.
34:13 He's got the best pitching staff.
34:15 He's got the automated strike zone.
34:18 So, he he should never lose a game now.
34:20 You really put him on the spot.
34:21 See, you can't be doing that.
34:23 He can't He came on here as a guest at your show
34:25 and you you put him under a lot of pressure.
34:28 That's right.
34:29 You can't You can't put me on You know what?
34:32 He's in trouble now.
34:34 Joe, are you gonna eject me from my own podcast?
34:39 I actually I have to eject myself because I'm late for this two o'clock meeting.
34:43 Well, you didn't.
34:44 You are late for a two o'clock meeting.
34:45 Well, you had a great time.
34:47 It's good good to see you again, Joe.
34:49 You look great.
34:49 It's good to see you.
34:51 You're being very kind.
34:52 Tell your dad hello.
34:53 And the and your your brother.
34:55 I will.
34:56 I will.
34:56 Your brother?
34:57 Your brother.
34:57 He's the one that's living proof
34:59 that birth control should be retroactive, right?
35:01 Oh, Jesus.
35:04 On that note, take care.
35:06 Thank you to Joe West.
35:08 Thank you to Aaron Boon.
35:09 Thank you to everyone who listened.
35:11 Uh we'll see you next week.