I'd Tell it to Trump's Face! I Senate Candidate Abdul El-Sayed

0:00 Would you sit down with him

0:02 and try to work?

0:02 He's the president of the United States.

0:04 I think he's a narcissistic asshole who's unfit for office.

0:07 You don't think I'll tell that to him to his face?

0:09 You don't know me very well.

0:11 Welcome back to the Terara Paul Mary Show.

0:14 All eyes are suddenly on the Michigan Senate race where

0:18 candidate Abdul El say is running an unapologetic outsider campaign.

0:23 He's challenging the Democratic establishment like Chuck Schumer.

0:27 He's refusing to disavow controversial voices like Hassan Piker,

0:30 who he campaigned with, and he's leaning into a populist message

0:34 that sounds like a combination of Zoron Mdani meets President Trump.

0:39 But here's the question.

0:41 Can that kind of outsider politics actually

0:44 do anything once it's inside the Washington machine?

0:48 We get into all of it and as usual, it gets feisty.

0:52 Dr.

0:52 Abdul Alsad, thank you for joining the show.

0:56 So much news this week, especially in Michigan.

1:00 Your opponent, Mallerie McMorro,

1:02 some of her old tweets resurfaced where she appeared

1:04 to disparage the state in which she is running,

1:08 said she never wish she left California,

1:11 even being upset about the weather in Michigan.

1:15 What do you make of this?

1:16 Do you think she should drop out?

1:18 Well, the weather can be upsetting at times,

1:20 but we actually love it here because this is a state

1:22 where we are blessed with some of the most beautiful freshwater

1:26 in the world where we've got more importantly the best people

1:31 and it's a place that's defined

1:32 by its combination of earnestness and grittiness.

1:35 I was born and raised here,

1:36 proud of having gone to public schools and public university

1:40 here and as soon as I could come back, I did.

1:43 I'm proud to raise my kids here.

1:45 So, I like Michigan and I hope that anybody who wants

1:47 to represent Michigan in the US Senate or anywhere likes Michigan, too.

1:52 So, do you think she should drop out?

1:54 That is not my decision to make.

1:55 I'm a lot more focused on building a relationship with fellow Michiganders,

1:58 explaining to them why I like them and I like Michigan.

2:01 And at the end of the day, it's a conversation for her and the voters, right?

2:05 She's going to have to answer why she said what

2:07 she said and what it means about her relationship with them.

2:10 I think we take the horse race of a lot of these races far too seriously.

2:14 I'm a lot more interested in this race in building

2:16 an indelible relationship with the good people in my state.

2:19 A relationship that I've had now since I was born.

2:21 A relationship that I've made a lot deeper in the work that I've done

2:24 in public service as Detroit's health director

2:27 and then Wayne County's Department of Health,

2:28 Human, and Veteran Services Director and as a candidate

2:31 both for governor in 2018 and for US Senate now.

2:34 And what I'll tell you is this, traveling across my state,

2:36 you can't help but fall in love with the good people in the state.

2:38 These are folks who work hard and they deserve

2:41 a lot more than what they're getting from their politicians.

2:43 both in Lancing and DC.

2:45 And you do feel some of that contempt sometimes from those politicians.

2:49 It feels like they're governing against people trying to make it harder

2:52 for them to be able to fford the means of a dignified life.

2:55 I'm somebody who is a doctor and I fell into public service when I started

2:59 to ask questions about why is it that people get sick in the first place?

3:02 And I've tried to bring that love of people uh

3:05 to everything I've done in government and to this campaign.

3:08 And I'll tell you, across the 90 cities that I've visited, 350 public events,

3:13 I I I think now all I've seen is just more reason to love,

3:17 admire, and serve the people in this incredible state.

3:21 Yeah, I was really surprised to see that and hear

3:24 that because she is the majority whip in the state senate.

3:27 She had this breakout moment, uh, this viral moment in one of her speeches.

3:32 And actually, you know,

3:34 a lot of the establishment players in Michigan and Washington,

3:37 they really liked her a lot.

3:38 I mean, she's not backed by uh Chuck Schumer

3:41 the way that your um other opponent Haley Stevens is,

3:46 but you know, she had a lot of promise and I

3:49 think there are a lot of questions right now about that.

3:52 Um but she's not dropping out of the race.

3:55 Uh it's a it's interesting to see

3:58 that all sort of like resurface at this moment.

4:01 I I guess the reason I Sorry, I do want to I do want to uh make a note, right?

4:05 Chuck Schumer has has basically said he's fine with either of the other two.

4:09 Uh he came out initially he was backing uh Congresswoman Stevens.

4:13 Now he's fine with either McMurro uh or Stevens.

4:16 And it should tell you a little bit about my approach to governing.

4:20 I'm not somebody who takes orders from the top down.

4:23 I'm not somebody who goes into a dark room,

4:25 tells the donors or the political professionals what they want to hear,

4:28 and then goes and says something else to the public.

4:30 I've been saying the same thing for eight years since I ran for governor.

4:34 Same thing since I started in public service.

4:36 I believe that our government is corrupted by the power of big corporations

4:39 and politicians who do their bidding rather than the well-being of the public,

4:43 which should be motivating all of our public service.

4:46 And so the fact that that Chuck Schumer seems to oppose me in this primary

4:49 should tell you everything you need to know about who I actually serve.

4:53 Yeah, I know.

4:54 It's interesting.

4:54 And you guys are all sort of neck and neck right now in the polls.

4:57 um about 25%.

5:00 Just looking at like aggregate polls, Mallalerie is now falling behind.

5:05 Um it's it's really fascinating to see

5:07 that that despite not having establishment support,

5:11 uh you said you don't take pack money,

5:12 which must be very difficult to campaign without it,

5:16 you are still you're still competitive.

5:18 I mean, how how do you run without pack money?

5:21 I know I know you have a lot of, you know, small donors,

5:24 but that must have been a little, you know, scary to to strike out on your own.

5:29 I have to assume you're not able to practice as frequently.

5:33 You don't um as a doctor, so your your income is probably taken a hit from this.

5:39 But what's it like?

5:40 So, I don't take corporate money.

5:41 I never have.

5:41 I never will.

5:42 I'm the only candidate in this race,

5:43 Democrat or Republican, who never has and never will.

5:46 But when people understand that you're fighting to serve them,

5:50 when you're focused on their affordability,

5:52 when you're focused on whether or not they send their kids to a good school,

5:55 when you're focused on the question of why we send our money abroad to to buy

5:59 bombs and tanks for foreign governments when our own

6:01 kids can't get a quality school or healthcare,

6:05 people realize that they want to support that.

6:07 And so we've had donors from all over the country who've given to this campaign,

6:12 five bucks, 10 bucks helping to support this race.

6:14 Right?

6:14 I do this full-time.

6:16 Um, you know, I I I I had

6:17 to leave my job as Wayne Countyy's Department of Health,

6:19 Human, and Veteran Services director uh to be able to do this.

6:22 But I also know that I'm not willing to stand idly by while politicians

6:27 tell us what we shouldn't fight for and corporations tell us what we can't have.

6:30 I think the people in the state of Michigan understand that we have been

6:33 ills served by politicians both in Lancing

6:35 and DC because too often they're bought off

6:37 by the same corporations who are charging us an arm and a leg for everything

6:40 from our utilities to our healthcare and that we can do so much better.

6:43 And my message hasn't changed.

6:45 I ran on the same issues back in 2018.

6:47 I said something at the time I think folks weren't ready to hear,

6:49 which is that Donald Trump is not himself the disease of our politics.

6:52 He's just the worst symptom.

6:53 The disease is the system that allows big

6:55 corporations and special interests to buy and sell politicians.

6:58 And both of my opponents in this primary have

7:01 been uh part and part parcel of that system.

7:04 When you're voting to give data center corporations tax

7:06 breaks uh to build data centers in people's backyards,

7:09 when you're voting uh to oppose things like Medicare for all in our state,

7:13 it tells you a lot about where your values are.

7:15 And so we're succeeding in this race because people understand

7:19 that there is an opportunity to think beyond our politics.

7:22 I'm not supposed to run for office.

7:23 I'm not baked and polished.

7:24 I'm the wrong color.

7:25 I pray the wrong way.

7:26 My family comes from the wrong place.

7:27 I got the wrong name.

7:27 I know all those reasons.

7:29 But I also got two little girls at home,

7:30 ethnically half Egyptian like me, ethnically half Indian like their mom.

7:33 100% American and they're growing up in an America

7:36 where they have fewer rights than their immigrant grandparents had.

7:39 And I'm just not willing to sit idly by.

7:41 And so it's not surprising to me across the 90

7:43 cities I've visited that people are resonating with this campaign.

7:46 They want to see something different in their politics

7:48 and they see this in this race.

7:51 I'm what I'm hearing is a very populist playbook.

7:54 Um, I guess you could say left-wing populism,

7:57 same as Bernie Sanders, same as AOC,

7:59 but it's not that different than the way that President

8:02 Donald Trump came out of the gates against the establishment.

8:06 I don't believe corporations were helping him either

8:08 when he uh was first in the Republican primary.

8:11 I don't think anyone wanted anything to do with him.

8:13 Eventually, obviously, had huge name donors getting behind him like Miriam Add,

8:20 but he was an outsider.

8:22 I mean, do you think that Democrats are

8:24 essentially adopting his strategy and that they should be?

8:28 There is very little similarity between me and Donald Trump.

8:32 Uh, dude grew up as a Nepo baby.

8:34 You know, my folks were uh educators.

8:36 Uh, I studied to become a doctor.

8:38 I probably maxed out on the amount of school that I could do.

8:41 The man clearly has never studied a thing in his life.

8:43 And this is a guy who's certainly certainly uh benefiting from corporations now.

8:48 I mean, I think he's made what $4 billion off of the presidency alone.

8:52 I'm a physician who rebuilt health department origins in politics.

8:57 And um I ran eight years ago saying the same thing.

9:00 So I don't think in playbooks, I don't think in left and right.

9:03 My question is why do people get sick and how do we do something about it?

9:07 And as someone who graduated from medical school watching

9:10 as the people who I was taking care of clearly

9:14 were suffering at the end of a pathology of politics

9:19 more so even than the pathologies in their own bodies.

9:21 The air they breathe, the water that they drink,

9:23 whether or not they could see a doctor in the first place.

9:25 I got real curious about what we could do about it.

9:27 And all of this sits at the end

9:28 of a system in which corporations have bought off politicians.

9:31 And I've been saying it for eight years.

9:34 This is not a message that I happened to find for this race.

9:36 It's a thing I've been saying.

9:37 Talk to anybody in Michigan, they'll tell you.

9:39 Abdul has been saying the same thing for eight

9:41 years uh since I ran for office the first time.

9:44 Because it's true.

9:46 If you can't afford to buy healthy food for your kids,

9:50 if you're worried about whether or not

9:51 your job's going to be there for you tomorrow,

9:53 if you can't see a doctor when you get sick, yeah, you're going to be sicker.

9:57 You're going to be the poorer for it,

9:58 and you're going to be the more insecure for all of it.

10:01 And so I've been trying to talk about these issues everywhere I can,

10:05 trying to solve them in the work that I did in Detroit and Wayne County,

10:08 putting glasses uh on kids' faces in public schools for free,

10:12 taking on big corporate polluters,

10:13 eliminating upwards of $700 million of medical debt.

10:16 And so it might be that the electorate

10:19 has now moved in this particular direction,

10:21 but I think people have been searching for an authentic candidate who's

10:24 willing to talk about the issues uh honestly for a very long time.

10:28 And it might just be somebody who's got a name that's all wrong,

10:32 who prays the wrong way, who comes from a part of the world

10:35 that that we're told that politicians cannot come from.

10:38 Um, who born and raised in Michigan and loves my state and loves its people.

10:41 So, um, you know, I'm just trying to build that relationship with Michiganers,

10:45 show them who I am and who I have been and what I've done because of who I am.

10:47 Um, and I hope from the best from there.

10:50 Yeah.

10:50 I mean, we have had moments, political waves that have ushered in people with uh

10:55 different names like Zoran Mdani or uh Barack Obama

11:00 who maybe don't fit the typical white Christian nationalist

11:04 profile um in America as we've seen in politics.

11:08 But um I do want to just talk to you about

11:10 the realities of getting elected and getting into into the Senate.

11:14 And obviously Medicare for all is a great idea and Americans

11:19 I'm sure are behind you from both sides of the aisle.

11:22 I mean President Trump basically ran on the same thing as well.

11:25 Obviously in practice he has not done that.

11:28 He's pro he's gutted our healthcare.

11:30 But once you get into office you have to deal with moderate

11:34 not only you have to deal with moderate Democrats and Republicans.

11:38 It's not like Democrats are going to have a sweeping majority in the Senate.

11:42 They can't.

11:42 It's not even in the map.

11:44 um you may end up actually really disappointing the people that voted

11:48 for you because you just can't get past the partisan gridlock.

11:52 For example, like AOC, wonderful communicator, raises a ton of money,

11:57 uh really hasn't passed any legislation at all.

12:01 I mean, how do you how do you actually become effectual

12:04 in in Washington when it is a town that thrives on gridlock?

12:11 Yeah.

12:11 Well, I take seriously the idea that politics is about persuasion.

12:15 And one of the lessons that I think we should all take from our history

12:18 is that when Donald Trump came down that hideous golden escalator back in 2015,

12:22 nobody was talking about immigration.

12:24 But he used it to try and explain wrongly all

12:27 of the things that people were facing in their lives.

12:29 If you're out of a job, it's because an immigrant took your job.

12:31 Out of healthcare because immigrant took your healthcare,

12:33 out of a home, immigrants living in your home.

12:34 It's all bullshit.

12:35 None of it's true.

12:37 But it was an effective message and he used it in effect to weaponize

12:41 the idea of immigration against the constitution itself in the form of ICE.

12:44 What would happen if we actually were willing to take seriously

12:47 the idea that we can persuade people to see things our way?

12:50 My conversation is not just with 99 other senators.

12:53 It's with the 350 million people who elected all of us.

12:56 And I'm looking forward to having

12:57 that conversation about what we need and deserve.

12:59 And if I've learned anything campaigning up and down my state,

13:02 it's that unlikely people who you would think would have no time for somebody

13:06 who looks like me with a name like mine are coming out to our events.

13:09 I had a guy come up to me up north.

13:10 He said, you know, I don't like you.

13:12 I was like, okay, well, um, I like you.

13:14 Like, I know and I'm going to vote for you.

13:17 I was like, what?

13:17 He's like, yeah, because I think you really want me to have healthcare.

13:20 I was like, I really want you to have healthcare.

13:22 He's like, I either thought you were dumb

13:23 or you really wanted me to have healthcare.

13:25 I came here, you're clearly not dumb,

13:27 and I think you really want me to have healthcare.

13:28 I know what a doctor can make.

13:30 So why are you spending all this time except

13:31 for you really really want me to have something?

13:33 I was like, I get I understand.

13:34 But and then I asked him was like, so why don't you like me?

13:36 He's like, well, because you're Muslim.

13:37 I was like, okay, well, it turns out I don't need you to like me.

13:40 I need you to like you enough to believe that you actually deserve nice things.

13:45 And I'm willing to have that conversation up and down our country.

13:48 So yeah, I understand that there are moderates and there

13:50 are Republicans who may not believe in Medicare for all now,

13:53 but what we have to do is have the courage of our convictions to go and have

13:56 conversations in unlikely places rather than giving up

13:59 on people because we have the truth on our sides.

14:01 At the end of the day, if you're out of a job,

14:03 it's not because an immigrant took your job.

14:05 It's because a corporation figured out how to offshore and automate your job.

14:07 If you're out of a home, it's not because a immigrant is living in your home.

14:10 It's because we haven't built enough housing.

14:12 in large part because corporations are more interested in building housing

14:15 for really really rich people and they're

14:16 speculating on the housing that exists.

14:18 If you're out of healthare,

14:19 it's definitely not because an immigrant took your healthcare.

14:21 It's definitely because a corporate insurance company

14:23 or a pharmaceutical company bought off our system.

14:25 They're consolidating hospitals and they're squeezing everyone,

14:28 patients and providers out.

14:29 We have better answers.

14:30 The problem with it is that Democrats are too often bought off

14:33 by the corporations who are part

14:34 of the problem rather than part of the solution.

14:36 I'm not.

14:36 So, it frees me to actually have an honest conversation about

14:39 what the real problem is and what we do about it.

14:41 And I'm having that conversation now in 90 cities across the state.

14:44 And I'm planning to have that conversation up and down

14:46 our country until we actually secure Medicare for all.

14:49 We've got to stop giving up on our ideals and start fighting for them.

14:53 So, what I'm hearing is politics first, apply pressure for policy.

14:58 But I do want to um you know, what I'm hearing from you is that a lot

15:02 of these voters are willing to throw away Democratic purity tests

15:08 to vote for you or to vote for an outsider who

15:10 they feel like will actually create momentum and and cause change.

15:15 Um and yeah, they're perhaps willing to look

15:18 past what they perceive as identity difference.

15:21 And you know, the Democratic Party has really um

15:24 thrived on identity politics in a lot of ways.

15:28 Sarah, if I can if I can make a comment here.

15:30 You know, I was raised by my dad, who's an Egyptian immigrant,

15:32 and my stepmom, Jackie, who's a daughter of the American Revolution.

15:36 I understood pretty early in my life that I didn't belong to any tribe.

15:41 I was always an outsider everywhere I went.

15:43 And one of the things that that teaches you is that the things

15:46 that bind us are usually a lot bigger than the things that divide us.

15:51 When your grandmother looks in you in the you looks you in the eye

15:53 and makes your favorite meal and tells you it's going to be okay.

15:55 It is done with the same love.

15:57 And I'm trying to lock in on the things we all need and deserve.

16:02 I think it's really important for us to recognize that in the end

16:04 all of us are people who want the same things.

16:06 We have the same anxieties when we look our kids in the eye.

16:08 We want the same things for them.

16:10 And if we're serious about those things, the rest of it is just details.

16:15 People want someone who's going to really

16:17 go and fight to make their life easier.

16:18 I got no business running for office.

16:20 Everybody knows that.

16:21 So, the only reason I'm doing is because at the end of the day,

16:24 like I knew what my life should have been.

16:25 I I It's an accident of history.

16:26 I was supposed to grow up in Egypt

16:28 like driving cabs like the rest of my cousins.

16:30 That is not my life.

16:32 And it's not my life because of this incredible country.

16:34 This incredible country that needs to be this incredible country for everyone.

16:38 And my goal ultimately put all the chips in the middle and say,

16:41 what does it look like for us to actually fight for each other again?

16:44 What does it look for like for us to get back

16:46 to the the basics of what government is supposed to be,

16:49 which is supposed to buy you out of impossible decisions in your life

16:52 and give you the basic firmament to be able to build your dreams?

16:55 Like that is what government's supposed to do.

16:57 Not that hard.

16:57 I've studied complicating complicated things.

16:59 This is not one of them.

17:00 And I just think that we get so caught

17:02 up in the ridiculous horse race of it all,

17:04 the left and the right and uh who's going to say what about whom,

17:07 how much money is going to get spent.

17:08 At the end of the day,

17:09 if you just cut through all of that and you recognize that this is

17:12 about people talking to each other about what they need and deserve,

17:14 it gets a lot easier.

17:17 Got it.

17:17 So, you come from obviously a medical background.

17:20 You've led health services in Wayne County.

17:22 If you had a chance to grill Robert F.

17:25 Kennedy in a congressional hearing,

17:27 what was the f what would be the first thing you ask him?

17:30 I mean, really, the first thing I'd ask him was like,

17:31 why would you take your grandkid swimming

17:33 in a creek that's chalk full of bacteria?

17:35 Like, what the fuck, man?

17:36 Like, why would you do that?

17:37 Um, but then beyond that is to say how much money have you made on your grift?

17:42 You tell people that vaccines are bad for them,

17:44 but like you then sell them the alternative.

17:47 How much money have you made?

17:49 And was it worth it now that we have a measles outbreak?

17:52 Was it worth it?

17:53 Now that we're in a situation in which our entire

17:56 public health infrastructure is crumbling, was it worth it?

17:59 And in the end, he'll probably justify it as he's a crusader for X, Y, and Z.

18:02 But like, I guess that's what a brainworm does to you.

18:05 But I I really want to understand was it worth it?

18:07 Because there are millions of people.

18:09 We talk about all the deadly things

18:10 this uh this this this terrible administration is doing.

18:13 You look at the war in Iran and the people who have died

18:15 and the service members who've given their lives

18:17 for a war we never should have fought.

18:19 That's like the acute part of the illness of Trumpism.

18:22 The chronic part is what RFK Jr.

18:24 is doing to undercut our entire public health infrastructure.

18:27 And I just want to understand from his perspective,

18:29 was it worth it for you to make a couple hundred thousand bucks?

18:33 Yeah.

18:33 No, you're right.

18:34 They sell a lot.

18:35 Maha movement is extraordinarily profitable.

18:39 I I do want to ask you about Hassan Piker.

18:42 You've campaigned with him.

18:44 He's seen as a boogeyman for the right and now the left.

18:49 I mean um for some of his controversial statements like America deserve 911.

18:56 um his comments about Israel and you know you've argued that it's

19:01 critical for Democrats to embrace voices

19:03 like his even while the party disagrees.

19:06 Are you worried that aligning with a figure like him could cost you votes?

19:10 Sarah, do you agree with everything I have to say?

19:14 Probably not.

19:15 Do you think I agree with everything you think?

19:18 No, probably not.

19:18 So, and we're still having a nice amicable conversation.

19:21 Why?

19:22 Because you talk to a lot of people I'd like to talk to.

19:25 So, it's the same story whether it's Hassan Piker or going on Fox and Friends.

19:30 I'm not going to be held accountable for anything you said,

19:33 but somehow because Hassan and I have similar names that people

19:39 want to hold me accountable for what he said, even though

19:42 Vice President Harris invited him to to stream from the DNC back in 2024.

19:47 I don't know.

19:47 I just don't take this whole thing seriously.

19:49 Um, at the end of the day,

19:50 what's happening is that I am a direct threat to the money-making

19:55 machine by which big corporations buy and sell politicians to do their bidding.

19:59 And they see me as a threat.

20:00 So, they're going to try and do everything they can.

20:02 And they hate it when I'm off talking to people.

20:04 And I'll just tell you, since we've campaigned with Hassan,

20:07 we've watched our numbers jump in the polls.

20:09 Why?

20:10 Because people understand that they're sick and tired

20:13 of being told who they can and can't listen to.

20:15 And it's just gotten more attention on me, right?

20:18 Fox News and and and and CNN covering

20:21 our campaign and then people are paying attention be like,

20:23 "What's that guy about?" Well,

20:24 it turns out he's about getting money out of politics,

20:26 putting money in your pocket, and passing Medicare for all.

20:28 And they'll look at that and be like, "Well, I like that." Popular.

20:31 Yeah.

20:31 But it does come down to the rift in the Democratic party um over Israel.

20:37 So, here's my question.

20:38 You know, everybody wants to make it about Israel.

20:40 My question is about what is the proper use of our tax dollars?

20:43 I I'm from Michigan and here in Michigan we got schools

20:46 that can't afford to heat themselves in the middle of the winter.

20:49 We've got roads that are crumbling.

20:51 Our literacy rates are tumbling and people can't get healthcare.

20:54 And you want to tell me that the best use of my tax dollars is to send

20:58 them to buy a bomb or a tank

20:59 for a country that's committing apartheid and genocide.

21:02 Like how does that make sense to me?

21:03 How does that make sense to anybody in Michigan?

21:05 The real question is about what should we use our money for?

21:08 Now, it's a pretty crazy thing that a whole lot of people in Washington

21:12 DC from a whole lot of states that got a lot of similarities

21:15 to ours think that the best use of our tax dollars is to give

21:18 bombs and tanks to a country

21:19 that has universal healthcare and universal college.

21:22 That doesn't make any sense to me.

21:24 It doesn't make any sense to most people who are paying attention.

21:26 Now, the question becomes why?

21:28 Well, because there's a hund00 million

21:30 super PAC that exists to literally blanket

21:34 the airwaves with attack ads against anybody who says what I just said.

21:38 They've called me the single most dangerous

21:40 uh uh candidate for the US Israel relationship.

21:43 That's because I'm the single best

21:44 candidate for the Abdul Michigan relationship,

21:47 for the DC Michigan relationship, because I want to keep my money here.

21:50 I want to buy healthcare here.

21:51 I want to buy schools here.

21:52 I want to make sure that people can afford

21:54 basic things here rather than sending my money over there.

21:56 And look, I'll just tell you this.

21:58 The second biggest recipient of foreign military aid is Egypt,

22:00 where my family came from.

22:01 And let's just start there.

22:03 I don't think they should get bombs and tanks either.

22:05 So if you want to call me anything, call me anti-Egyptian.

22:08 But it's all ridiculous.

22:09 This is not a serious conversation for serious people.

22:12 I I I I want to go back to the whole idea where you're like,

22:15 you said, "Well, Tara, you I'm you're on my I'm on your show.

22:20 We don't agree." But it's different when you appear

22:23 on Fox and Friends or you appear on a podcast,

22:27 when someone's out there campaigning for you, essentially endorsing you.

22:30 It's not the same type of relationship.

22:32 It's a stamp of approval.

22:33 It's the same thing as if RFK Jr.

22:36 was campaigning for you.

22:37 Well, except for we don't agree on basic things.

22:40 Here's the thing about it.

22:41 People want to take a guy who streams for eight hours every single day,

22:46 take what he says out of context,

22:47 and then hold you accountable for the things he says out of context.

22:50 The the truth is I agree that we should be keeping our money here at home.

22:53 I agree that people should have guaranteed healthcare.

22:55 I agree that our country shouldn't backs stop a country that does genocides.

22:58 Those are things we agree on.

23:00 And the fact that he supports me because we agree on those things, well,

23:04 he's communicating to the three million people plus

23:06 who follow him about what those values are,

23:09 that doesn't mean I agree with everything he's ever said.

23:11 And it's pretty ridiculous to try and take things that he said out

23:14 of context and tie them around me as if I agree with those things.

23:18 And people know better.

23:19 I mean, this is the thing about it.

23:20 It's like funny.

23:20 You got like you got like serious people pretty clear.

23:23 I mean, some of the stuff he said is really clear.

23:25 And like we hear this too from politicians all the time,

23:27 like, "Oh, you're taking Trump out of context.

23:30 You're taking him literally." Like, this is something that I've heard.

23:33 He's literally started a war.

23:35 He's literally profited off of our government.

23:41 He has literally funded ICE to the tune of $185 billion and been

23:46 single mainly responsible for what's been done to Renee Good and Alex Prey.

23:52 It's not out of context.

23:53 It's like the stuff he actually did when he was in office.

23:56 So yeah, like I think we should take him literally and figuratively.

23:58 And he's also a politician and the president of the United States.

24:01 Hassan is a Twitch streamer.

24:05 Yeah.

24:05 With a lot of influence.

24:06 And if we've seen everything in the past,

24:07 my guy talks at a screen for eight hours a day.

24:10 And you want to tell me that he's similar to the president of the United States?

24:14 The guy is the president of the United States of America.

24:17 He's got the nuclear codes.

24:19 Not the same.

24:20 I know, but in an attention economy, that is power.

24:24 Are you actually defending the idea that Hassan is

24:26 as powerful as the president of the United States?

24:27 Are you really defending?

24:28 I think President Trump is actually very concerned

24:31 about the conversations over podcasts and in media.

24:36 Yeah, media is very powerful.

24:37 It is.

24:38 It is a very powerful

24:39 exactly why you should go and talk to as many people as you possibly can

24:44 about the things that you believe in, which is exactly

24:46 what I do when I go on Fox and Friends,

24:48 come on your show or campaign with Assan Piker.

24:52 Yeah.

24:52 I just think um I I I mean even from what

24:56 you've said to me about when you end up in Washington,

24:59 if you win, getting past partisan deadlock,

25:02 you've basically said, "I'm going to speak directly to the people,

25:05 which means that you're going to try to use

25:06 the power of the media to affectuate change." Absolutely.

25:09 Which is exactly what I'm doing.

25:10 Right.

25:10 The reason I come on your show is because there

25:12 are people who pay attention to what you have to say,

25:14 and I want to talk to them.

25:15 I like to talk to you, too.

25:16 You're very nice.

25:17 But I want to talk to them.

25:18 Same with Hassan.

25:19 I want to talk to the people he's talking to every single day.

25:23 If if Bill Maher, who said awful things about Muslims,

25:25 invited me, guess what I would do?

25:27 I would go on a show and I would talk to them through him.

25:30 And if Fox and Friends wants me, I'll do the same thing.

25:33 This is about whether or not we think that it is appropriate for some

25:36 media to gatekeep other media because they

25:38 are a threat to their financial system.

25:40 Because that's really what's happening right now, right?

25:42 So, at the end of the day, I've been consistent.

25:44 I am going to go and talk to anyone with whom I can have

25:47 a conversation about inviting you back into a politics

25:49 that's about getting money out of politics,

25:51 putting money in your pocket, and passing Medicare for all.

25:53 And if they support me and want to come and support

25:55 me and tell their uh listeners why they support me,

25:58 because I want to get money out of politics,

26:00 put money in your pocket, and pass Medicare for all, absolutely phenomenal.

26:02 Come through to Michigan.

26:04 We'll create space for that.

26:05 But I'm not going to be held accountable for everything

26:07 you ever said because that would be ultimately ridiculous.

26:10 Now, when the president of the United States says stuff,

26:12 he's the actual president of the United States.

26:14 He has real power beyond his influence of what people

26:17 think about him because he commands the entire United States military,

26:22 which he has used to drop bombs on countries to kidnap a foreign uh leader,

26:28 right, to uh fund a lot of things that are inconsistent with our best interest.

26:32 That is a different thing.

26:34 And so I just want to be clear that the media has

26:36 its role and I'm trying to engage with the media in a good

26:39 faith approach to talking about what it looks like to build

26:42 a politics that actually does those things when I'm a US senator.

26:45 Hold me accountable for the things that I vote for and the procedures

26:48 that I engage with because I will be an elected official.

26:50 But for right now, right, even then I want to have conversations even when

26:54 I'm elected official about what we need to do.

26:56 Here's the crazy thing that to me though,

26:57 people when you when you shut the door on some creator or another,

27:00 what you are doing is saying that the people who pay attention to that person,

27:04 they do not deserve a pathway back into our politics.

27:06 And if we're serious about democracy,

27:08 democracy ought to be the pathway by which people come back

27:10 to a political system that is about

27:12 helping us to resolve our conflicts peaceibly.

27:16 We want people to feel like they have a role in a stake in our political

27:20 system rather than to shun them because

27:21 they pay attention to one creator or another.

27:24 So, I feel like it's a dangerous thing to say,

27:26 "Oh, you can't talk to them or these others because,

27:28 well, these people ought to have the door closed

27:30 on them." I'm not closing the door on anybody.

27:32 I never will.

27:33 So, I think it's important for us to go have

27:35 these conversations with as many people as we possibly can,

27:37 even if they said some things we disagree with.

27:41 Is there anyone off the table for you?

27:43 Let's see what the bounds of the conversation are.

27:45 There are a lot of people who've said things that like I'm like,

27:47 "Look, I I'm, you know,

27:48 we're you and I are going to have a debate." And even even with with Hassan,

27:51 he and I are going to agree with everything and we've had those conversations.

27:55 I just think that it's important for us to realize that we need a political

27:58 system in this moment that understands

28:01 that the bounds of our debate has changed substantially.

28:04 We're not in a world where there are three channels

28:06 anymore in which everybody kind of says the same thing.

28:08 And so, how do you engage in a world as a politician

28:11 where people are listening to all kinds of different creators?

28:14 I think we want politicians who have the courage to go on different platforms

28:18 and have those conversations with all kinds

28:20 of people about what they need and deserve.

28:22 And here's the thing about me that you're always going to get.

28:24 I say the same thing to everybody.

28:27 Whether I'm on Hassan, whether I'm on Fox and Friends,

28:29 whether I'm talking to you,

28:31 I believe that our politics ought to be about getting money out of politics,

28:35 putting money in your pocket, and passing Medicare for all.

28:37 I will take that message anywhere and everywhere.

28:41 Okay?

28:41 And even to the White House.

28:43 I mean, Zoron Mom Donnie,

28:44 who you've been compared to, you would sit down with Trump just

28:48 like Gretchen Whitmer who had her famous uh binder over her face.

28:52 I mean, would you sit down with him and try to work?

28:55 He's the president of the United States.

28:57 I think he's a narcissistic asshole who's not unfit unfit for office.

29:01 I also understand that he's president of the United States.

29:05 You don't think I'll tell that to him to his face?

29:06 You don't know me very well.

29:08 But he's the president of the United States.

29:09 you're not going to get done what you want to get

29:11 done because obviously Zoran mom Donnie worked his charms on Trump.

29:14 He's in love with the guy.

29:15 We we don't we don't know what he said behind closed doors.

29:17 I'll just tell you this.

29:19 I'm willing to work with anyone to advance

29:21 the goals of getting money out of politics,

29:23 putting money in your pocket, and passing Medicare for all.

29:25 You know, I don't agree with Donald Trump on much.

29:27 There's very, very little that we agree on.

29:30 But one of the things that I understand about the man

29:33 is that he respects people who don't back down to him.

29:36 I don't back down to anybody.

29:37 So, you know, you're going to have to deal

29:39 with me as the next senator from Michigan.

29:41 I believe deeply what I have learned about the man

29:44 watching him work for the past 11 years in American politics.

29:49 But if there's something that we can get

29:50 done together to get money out of politics,

29:51 I'm happy to work together to get that done.

29:53 I'll fight you on all the other stuff.

29:54 Figuratively, of course.

29:56 Uh but at the end of the day, we've got to be serious about the fact that he is

29:59 the president and we're going to have to get stuff done.

30:01 But I'm not going to couch out of him.

30:02 I'm not going to just whisper sweet nothings into his ear.

30:04 I'm going to tell them what I think because I tell everybody what I think.

30:08 But what if that doesn't get anything done?

30:09 You know what I mean?

30:10 Then at this point, we'll beat him in an election in 2028.

30:12 We'll elect somebody who's willing to get those things done and we'll

30:15 look forward to getting the important things done for the American public.

30:18 But in the meantime, people will suffer.

30:20 So, you asked me if I'm I'd be willing to sit down with him.

30:23 Yeah, I'd be willing to sit down with him on my terms,

30:27 but that might not last very long.

30:28 He may kick you out immediately.

30:30 He might kick me out immediately.

30:31 Fine.

30:31 Then I'll just walk outside, tell everybody why he kicked me out,

30:34 and uh and we'll look forward to beating whoever his handpicked acolyte,

30:38 probably JD Vance from Ohio, which is,

30:40 I hate to say it, the worst state in the union.

30:42 Um uh we'll beat him in in election in 2028.

30:46 Wait, where does that come from?

30:47 I'm from Michigan.

30:48 We hate Ohio.

30:50 Oh, okay.

30:51 Yeah, I wouldn't understand that not from that region.

30:54 Look, I'll just tell you, it's just like a lesser state.

30:56 I mean, like, it exists to hold up Michigan.

30:58 That's the only reason Ohio exists.

31:00 And I'll tell that to everybody from Ohio.

31:01 Like, you know, I love the good people in Ohio,

31:03 but you're welcome to come to Michigan.

31:04 We have better lakes.

31:05 We have better weather.

31:06 We have better food.

31:08 Um, you're welcome to come, but for the rest of you all,

31:10 we're stuck in Ohio and the Ohio State University.

31:12 I said what I said.

31:14 Well, one day if you ever run for president, that clip will be played.

31:17 I'm sure.

31:18 It's okay.

31:18 I'm probably going to lose Ohio anyway.

31:20 I'm just not going to go and campaign there.

31:22 Won 49 states, lost Ohio.

31:23 And you know what?

31:24 Honestly, I'd wear that as a badge of pride.

31:27 But also also no interest in running for president.

31:30 I want to be senator for Michigan.

31:32 I want to fight the good fight as a US senator.

31:34 I want to get some important things done.

31:36 I've heard that one before though.

31:37 You know, no interest, not interested at all.

31:39 Look, I I think you you you cast

31:41 the hypothetical about losing the state of Ohio.

31:43 And the only world in which I'm even

31:45 interested in earning votes in Ohio is that situation.

31:47 So, I'll tell you, maybe it's just that I don't want votes from Ohio,

31:50 so I'll never run for that office.

31:54 All right.

31:54 All right.

31:55 Um, let's let's wrap this up with a rapid fire um question,

31:59 so we'll keep it snappy.

32:02 Which Democrat are you closest to politically?

32:05 I mean, Bernie is the OG.

32:07 He's the GOAT.

32:07 Um, I'm deeply grateful for his support.

32:10 But I'll tell you, there are so many people up and down my state,

32:12 folks whose names you probably don't know, from whom I've I've learned a lot.

32:16 Um, folks who are doing the good work uh up and down the state.

32:19 I think about the county executive in Wayne County,

32:21 somebody who's uh been a public servant for nearly 50 years.

32:27 Snappy.

32:27 Well, all right.

32:30 County, state.

32:30 Okay, fine.

32:31 Sorry, I got to keep this on.

32:32 Okay.

32:33 Which Republican do you respect the most?

32:36 No rhinos.

32:37 No.

32:37 Like, oh, I'm no longer Governor.

32:39 The governor of Utah.

32:40 I felt that his um his leadership following

32:44 uh the assassination of Charlie Kirk was really admirable.

32:47 Okay.

32:47 Biggest mistake Democrats made in 2024 in one sentence.

32:53 One sentence.

32:54 Ignoring the hypocrisy on values when it comes to human rights

32:58 in Gaza and being beholdened to corporate money generally to run campaigns.

33:04 If you lose, what will it be because of?

33:07 I didn't build the kind of relationship I

33:09 needed to with folks in the state of Michigan.

33:13 If you win, what changes will you make on day one?

33:19 I will redouble the fight to get money out of politics,

33:22 to pass the PRO act, to tax billionaires their wealth,

33:26 and to pass Medicare for all.

33:29 All right.

33:29 Thank you so much for your time.

33:32 Um, we will keep an eye on this campaign.

33:35 I don't think in this in this political era,

33:37 it is impossible with someone with your name and uh profile.

33:42 I think we've seen a lot happening this political tide.

33:45 So, right now you're tied and we, you know, we shall see.

33:50 August 4th primary.

33:52 Well, I'm looking forward to it.

33:54 And uh whenever you invite me, I'm coming back because you know what?

33:57 I go everywhere and talk to everyone.

33:59 Terra has been a privilege.

34:00 And if I can just say, look,

34:02 I hope that folks will if I've said anything that's inspired you,

34:04 go to abdulforescended.com, get involved, drop us off.

34:07 Five bucks, 10 bucks.

34:08 I don't take corporate money.

34:08 I'm the only one who doesn't in my race.

34:10 And um sign up to volunteer.

34:11 We need you out here.

34:14 Okay.

34:14 Thank you so much for your time.

34:15 Thanks, Tara.

34:16 That was another episode of the Tara Palm Mary Show.

34:19 Thanks so much for tuning in.

34:21 You can, of course, support this kind

34:23 of independent journalism by going to terara palmary.com.

34:27 It's where you can get my all of my exclusive

34:29 reporting straight to your inbox by becoming a paid subscriber.

34:33 By doing that, you also support me and my mission

34:36 to bring you more free and transparent journalism.

34:40 I want to thank my producer Diane Schiffmaker, Abby Baker,

34:44 who booked this interview, produced, and who handles my social media.

34:49 I want to thank Adam Stewart who does these amazing graphics,

34:52 and Dan Rosen, my manager.

34:55 I will be back soon.

34:56 And thank you to all of you for sticking

34:58 in there with me while I get through this nasly cold.

35:02 I know it must not sound so great on your end, but I appreciate you guys.

35:06 And I will see you again in a few days.