1956: The British Coal Industry | The Edge of Success | BBC Archive

0:01 A chief cause of our industrial difficulties is often

0:04 said to be the bad example set by nationalized industries.

0:08 The members of our nationalized boards are

0:10 accused of being weak towards the unions,

0:13 of letting wage production rise without in increases in production,

0:17 and therefore of sending the price of everything up.

0:21 And to clinch that argument,

0:22 those who hold these views often end by saying, "Well,

0:26 just look at coal." All right, let's look at coal,

0:30 and as far as possible without political bias.

0:33 Are the miners letting this country down?

0:36 And are the millions that we're pouring

0:38 into the coal fields really bringing us a poor return?

0:44 Many of you may never have been to the coal fields.

0:47 They're not one of the most beautiful sights in this country.

0:50 These villages were built when the mines were first sunk,

0:53 and they remain much the same ever since,

0:55 as has much of the machinery in the mines themselves.

0:59 You can't really compare coal mining with other industry.

1:03 Men get coal day by day more than half a mile under the ground,

1:08 and sometimes more than 4 miles out under the sea,

1:11 in conditions which most of us wouldn't accept

1:14 otherwise than under the extreme pressure of war.

1:18 And because they work underground and work continuous shifts,

1:21 which gives them their leisure when most other people are at their business,

1:25 coal miners live a life apart.

1:28 Now, this is in a very narrow seam.

1:30 And in many collieries, exactly this is going on day by day at this moment.

1:35 And this man handling with the old tubs when the coal comes to surface likewise.

1:44 And partly because they live a life apart,

1:47 when the Great Depression hit this country in the 1920s,

1:51 coal miners were hit harder than most.

1:54 When the demand for coal fell off and collieries closed,

1:57 whole communities were out of work.

2:00 Now, thousands of people left the pits and the mines themselves fell into ruin.

2:06 But, fortunately for us, enough stayed on, literally scraping a living

2:10 from the slag heaps and from charity,

2:12 in the hope that the pits would one day reopen.

2:19 Well, they have reopened with a vengeance.

2:21 Today, the picture is exactly the opposite.

2:24 We haven't enough coal and we haven't enough coal miners.

2:27 And to meet the deficiency,

2:29 an immense program of modernization has been undertaken.

2:33 Wherever machines can do the work that men used to do,

2:36 they're being made to do it.

2:38 And for instance, these broad roadways in the mines are

2:42 being built so that instead of pit ponies and men hauling,

2:46 diesel engines and rail cars and conveyors can

2:49 carry the coal from the face to the shaft.

3:00 And here are some of the new machines.

3:09 Uh here is a a cutter in a narrow seam,

3:12 just about the size that man was cutting in you saw before.

3:21 A power loader.

3:36 You don't see many picks and shovels here.

3:43 Look at the contrast between the old and the new

3:45 in one particular pit at Rawdon in Leicestershire.

3:48 Now, here they've completely modernized the way that coal is brought up

3:51 from the bottom of the shaft to the surface and handled afterwards.

3:55 Now, here's the old method, and if you watch,

3:57 there's a great deal of man handling.

4:04 Now, those are the old tubs.

4:05 They're quite small, and a man to push them out of the shaft,

4:14 two men to put them into the tippler,

4:30 and then a great number of men to do the cleaning,

4:32 pick out the slag and the dirt from the coal by hand.

4:42 And here's the modern method.

4:43 The same shaft run from a control room.

4:47 Far bigger containers holding about double.

4:54 Automatically switched out of the shaft,

4:58 automatically unloaded or tipped onto conveyor belts,

5:03 which take the coal to the automatic cleaning plant,

5:06 where the dust and the slag is taken out.

5:09 And then the real coal is automatically weighed.

5:21 And of course, new pits are being sunk.

5:24 Now, this is not drilling for oil.

5:26 These drills are testing the value of the seams

5:30 of coal hundreds of feet below the ground in new areas.

5:34 No less than 14 new mines are being built in this country,

5:38 and the first of them will come into operation at the beginning of next year.

5:42 And when a new mine is first put into operation,

5:45 or when an old one is completely modernized,

5:48 it gives an entirely new look to the industry.

5:50 Modern coal fields look like plastic factories.

5:53 Now, I'm taking you to one of these later on, but first meet Mr.

5:56 Jim Bowman, himself a miner who might well

5:58 have been the chief of the miners' union,

6:00 but is in fact chairman of the National Coal Board.

6:02 I asked him how he was paying for all this reconstruction.

6:06 Well, by the end of 1965, internal financing should have produced about

6:12 2/3 of our total expenditure since 1950.

6:15 Well, when you say "from our own resources", you mean that you're going to pay

6:18 for a large part of this re-equipment yourselves.

6:21 Does that mean that we shall have to pay more for our coal?

6:25 Well, I'm not going to suggest that the price

6:27 of coal will remain as it is for always,

6:29 but you won't have to pay more for your coal because of our investment program.

6:35 You mean that you hope to increase efficiency so much

6:37 by mechanization that it won't automatically mean an increase in the price.

6:42 Yes, exactly.

6:43 You see, so far as our major

6:45 investment and our major development program is concerned,

6:50 most of our schemes are still in the pipeline.

6:55 Yeah.

6:53 It takes about 8 to 10 years to produce a new pit.

6:58 And out of 167 major projects, only 20 are actually in production today.

7:05 But I want to schedule, I mean,

7:06 you think that you'll get most of it done by '65?

7:09 Oh, yes.

7:10 We will we will we will do the job according to program.

7:12 But the projects come progressively into being.

7:17 And as they come into being, of course,

7:18 we produce a much higher output per man shift,

7:21 and there's a much higher standard of efficiency all round.

7:24 I think you've said publicly recently that all the increase in production

7:29 you're getting from mechanization is being

7:31 wiped out by an increase in absenteeism.

7:35 And I this has led a good many people to say

7:37 that all this money the country is spending on coal really isn't worthwhile,

7:41 it is going literally down the drain.

7:42 And do you think it's a thing that you're ever going to be able to cure?

7:46 It's a very difficult

7:47 mean I I'm meaning voluntary absenteeism, not absenteeism due to

7:50 Yes, I appreciate that.

7:52 Well, it's a very difficult thing because you

7:54 see here again it's so difficult to generalize.

7:56 I think we have a minority of our people who are not playing the game.

8:01 But taking the vast body of British mine workers,

8:04 they're working awfully hard and awfully well.

8:07 Uh six out of every seven work a full five days every week.

8:11 And we have about 200,000 to 250,000 who are working six days a week.

8:17 In other words, they're giving us a voluntary Saturday.

8:21 And you know, I I think it would be fair to say

8:23 that that's more than some people in more comfortable jobs are doing.

8:28 But I do admit that we have a minority

8:29 of our people uh who really must do better.

8:35 Now it's clear from what Mr.

8:36 Bowman said that getting coal isn't only a question of machinery.

8:40 And so I went to some collieries to talk to the men.

8:43 Now this is the West Riding Colliery,

8:45 100 years old, too old for complete modernization.

8:49 A colliery in which absenteeism is high

8:51 among the 1,200 men and production is low.

8:54 Mr.

8:54 Hopwood, how how often do you take a day off?

8:57 Very rare.

8:58 At all.

8:59 Don't bother.

9:01 Well, now some chaps on your shift must.

9:04 Why do you think the What do you think the main reason is?

9:07 Various reasons.

9:07 Some of them oversleeps.

9:10 Some of them don't intend coming.

9:12 I thought that they had alarms or somebody knocked them up or something.

9:14 Somebody knocks them up sometimes.

9:17 And sometimes they don't.

9:20 And what do you think the main reason is?

9:22 Well, I couldn't exactly tell you really.

9:24 I I don't know.

9:27 Some I don't think someone feels physically fit.

9:32 But Mr.

9:33 If they don't get a doctor's chit, they they lose all their

9:36 They lose their bonus.

9:37 Yeah.

9:37 Oh, yes, definitely.

9:38 Yes, of course they do.

9:39 They're bound to do.

9:41 I can't do no other.

9:43 But, um do you do you resent it when chaps on your shift don't turn up?

9:48 I mean, it makes a lot

9:49 Yes, it because we have to have somebody else.

9:52 And then you don't know the other chap, and it's not so easy to know.

9:54 but anyway, we don't know the other one sometimes.

9:56 Many a time we don't.

9:58 At all.

9:59 Well, now, when you read criticisms in the press

10:01 about this, what do you all feel?

10:02 I don't like it.

10:04 Definitely, I don't like it.

10:05 No.

10:06 I resent it all, that, because I don't like to see it.

10:09 But, you resent

10:10 it's unfair.

10:12 Most of it is unfair.

10:14 Because they don't understand the reason.

10:16 No, they don't.

10:17 And they don't They've never been down a pit.

10:19 Perhaps someone has only seen the pit doubles

10:20 as they've gone by in in the railway train.

10:23 Mr.

10:23 Handley, you were saying that the speed of the work is much faster now.

10:28 But, when you were tubbing, surely it was much harder work.

10:32 Well, now, yeah, you have a certain time to get it off in the coal.

10:35 You used to have coal that have a certain time.

10:38 Well, when you was tubbing,

10:39 if you hadn't time to fill another tub, you no need to bother.

10:42 But, now you can't leave the yard of coal on.

10:43 You must get it off.

10:44 So, therefore, you have to get it off in that certain 7 and 1/2 hours.

10:47 You have to go the speed of the machine.

10:48 You have to You have to keep going as long as the belt's going,

10:51 you have to keep shoveling on.

10:52 So, do you I mean, before you would take a breather,

10:54 and now it's just pretty well

10:55 Yes, you could take a breather before, but you was losing money.

10:57 If you didn't fill the tubs, you didn't get the money.

11:00 The more tubs you fill, the more money you get.

11:03 But, supposing you take a breather now,

11:04 the the van just doesn't have anything on it.

11:06 No.

11:06 No.

11:07 Well, do you lose money then or not?

11:08 No, you still have to get your stint off in the time.

11:11 Now, you're a married man.

11:12 Have you got any sons?

11:14 No.

11:14 Well, if you had a son, would you like him to go down the pit?

11:17 No.

11:17 But, any Do you find that most of your friends feel the same or not?

11:21 Yes, I think they do.

11:22 These what's working the pit.

11:24 I wouldn't come out of the pit myself.

11:26 But, I wouldn't let the lad of mine go in if I had one.

11:29 How many of Are men's sons coming down this pit or not?

11:32 I don't think so.

11:33 Don't think there's a lot.

11:34 There's more in the other trades out the pit.

11:36 Are you short of men in this pit?

11:39 No, not not particularly.

11:41 We have a certain number of men on the books

11:44 and provided those men turn up to work,

11:47 well of course there's no shortage of men.

11:49 When did you last take a day off yourself?

11:52 Uh about 3 months ago.

11:54 Well now, what do you think the most usual reason for a chap staying away is?

11:59 Well, men working hard.

12:02 Men having to stay over to get the stints off.

12:06 What do you mean by that?

12:07 Also Well, to complete the task.

12:10 Yes.

12:09 You have a certain amount of work to do.

12:14 Yeah.

12:13 And you have to do that certain amount of work

12:17 Yeah.

12:17 before somebody else can follow along with another cycle.

12:19 But now, if a chap stays away just on his own,

12:24 he'll lose not any one day, but he'll lose a day's pay and the the bonus shift.

12:29 a shift and his bonus.

12:30 That's yes.

12:30 So, it might make the difference of six or seven pounds a week to him.

12:33 Yes, possible.

12:35 Well now, how can a man afford to do that?

12:38 Well, he can't really afford,

12:39 but the point is this, if a man is tired and he's a bit off color

12:46 it is possibility that by having one day off he may save himself a week's play.

12:53 Now, do you resent it when chaps stay away?

12:56 Well, no, but if he is a absew absew absenteeism,

13:02 well of course there comes times when of course he

13:05 has to be replaced by a man that's that works regular.

13:09 Do you find that it's usually the same chaps

13:11 who stay away or is it lots of fellows?

13:14 Well, we have some that plays pretty regular,

13:17 but we have other chaps that naturally have to have a day off now and again.

13:21 Uh did you have the proposal put to you

13:23 here that you might have some Italians on the mine?

13:27 Yes.

13:27 What what did you of it?

13:28 Well, we didn't like the idea at all.

13:32 Why?

13:33 Well, we have plenty of foreigners here, Poles, Hungarians, and other Czechs,

13:38 and we didn't think the Italians would make good workmen for a start,

13:43 and we didn't think they'd go for harmony down the pit.

13:46 We thought we should have trouble with them, so we definitely turned them down.

13:51 But mightn't it be worth giving them a try?

13:52 They have a lot of them working down pits.

13:55 Right?

13:56 Well, we didn't think it'd be a success here.

13:58 We may upset our own lads by doing it.

14:01 Did you have a vote on it or or

14:03 Yes.

14:04 We had a vote at the branch meeting, and it was turned down unanimously.

14:08 But supposing in the mines as a whole, we go on being short of men,

14:13 do you think then people will change their view about that or not?

14:16 Well, if they was put on the face to the south, they'd probably be all right,

14:20 but uh to mix among our own people,

14:22 we didn't like the we didn't we wouldn't entertain it at all.

14:27 Now, one of the reasons for absenteeism,

14:29 which none of the men mentioned and which many may not

14:31 be conscious of, may be the surroundings in which they live.

14:35 When streets and houses are dilapidated and ugly,

14:38 wives don't ask for so many things.

14:40 Mrs.

14:40 Kirby is just beginning to.

14:43 Mrs.

14:43 Kirby, do you find life easier now than you did before the war?

14:47 Oh, yes, quite.

14:51 The money buys more than the money you had then, does it?

14:54 Oh, yes, it does.

14:56 Now, does that mean you've got everything in your house you want?

14:59 No, not everything.

15:01 What is there that you do want?

15:03 Well, I want the electric in now and the washer.

15:05 When's the electric coming in?

15:06 About November.

15:08 And then what will you get with it?

15:10 The washer first.

15:11 A washing machine?

15:12 First, yes.

15:13 So that you'll never have to do any more washing yourself.

15:15 No, I won't.

15:16 What what's the next thing you want?

15:18 Well, I'd like a Hoover.

15:21 Yes.

15:21 And then my husband would like a television.

15:23 So, by this time next year you might have all three.

15:26 What about an iron?

15:26 Don't you want an iron?

15:27 Oh, I got the iron.

15:28 You've got the iron?

15:29 Yes, I've got the iron.

15:30 What, without electricity?

15:31 Yes, I've got it in stock.

15:34 Well, um if your husband wasn't earning good money,

15:37 this would be difficult, wouldn't

15:38 Yes, it would.

15:40 What happens if he has to stay away?

15:43 Do you suddenly lose a lot in that week?

15:46 Well, I don't know.

15:47 It doesn't make any difference to me, you see.

15:50 I never know what he earns and I never ask.

15:53 He always gives me my wage.

15:54 He never tells me.

15:55 He just gives you enough to run the house.

15:57 Yes.

15:57 Yes.

15:58 Is that true with most people that their wives not know how much they earn?

16:01 Well, I think the biggest majority around

16:03 here don't know what the husbands earn.

16:06 That's very clever of the husbands.

16:07 I don't think I should be able to keep that secret.

16:10 West Riding Colliery is near Doncaster.

16:13 And a few miles away, still in Yorkshire,

16:16 is a modern colliery with a new housing estate belonging to the Coal Board.

16:20 And I think if you look at these children's

16:22 toys and the adults' toys and look at the gardens,

16:26 you'll feel that you might be in a seaside resort.

16:31 We tried to take this young mother without her noticing us,

16:33 but she saw us and ran away and we had to persuade her to come back again.

16:38 Now, in these houses most of the wives already have all the things that Mrs.

16:42 Kirby still wanted.

16:44 And behind each house you'll see a special

16:46 coal bunker for the miners' free coal,

16:49 which as the wives are quick to point out is much too small,

16:52 so that half the coal has to be left outside to the delight

16:55 of the children and the despair of most of the mothers.

16:58 Mrs.

16:58 Barton, when did you move into your new house?

17:01 A year, this April gone.

17:03 Well, and what sort of house were you living in before?

17:05 Oh, we lived in an old cottage, you know, just this back colliery.

17:09 It was really nice.

17:10 My husband made it nice, you know, but with no light and no water.

17:13 We had to go to the old well, you know,

17:15 and drop the bucket down and then turn the handle, you know.

17:18 It was hard work, you know.

17:20 Well, now some people as said that they don't see why miners should

17:24 have special houses and they want to wait their turn on the council list.

17:27 What do you think?

17:28 Oh, well, I think miners when the NCB build these houses they ask

17:32 for the miners and I think they want I mean they all got get baths,

17:36 you know, at the pit but I think you want the bath as well, you know.

17:40 You mean the bath in the house?

17:41 Oh, yes.

17:42 Your Is your husband earning good money?

17:44 Well, he I really don't know what he gets but my husband,

17:48 you see, is always he doesn't get a bad wage, you know, but he has to work all

17:51 the weekends he only has one Sunday off in three.

17:55 Really?

17:55 And when the other banksmen are away they have to do 12 hours, you know.

17:59 Does he ever stay away from work?

18:01 No, never.

18:02 Only he has his fortnight holiday and then they don't get another well,

18:06 the next fortnight the next yearly holidays unless he's poorly, you know.

18:11 They don't get any holidays at bank holiday

18:13 or Easter or Whitsuntide or anything like that.

18:16 Does your husband get free coal as well?

18:18 Yes.

18:18 Do you sell it?

18:19 No, we don't.

18:20 We never get much coal, you know, not to sell we never sell it.

18:24 We always have to keep his mother his mother's a widow, you know,

18:26 and she's 73 she lives alone in Kippax and we always see to her having coal.

18:32 When you hear about miners staying away from work,

18:35 what what are your feelings about that?

18:37 Well, I think if they are poorly I

18:38 don't see why they should stay away, you know.

18:40 I mean my husband never stays away and he never has done.

18:44 Do you know many who do?

18:45 No, I don't.

18:47 I don't think there are many around here you know,

18:49 they seem to be all good workers.

18:52 Mrs.

18:53 Bell, when your husband was working as a market gardener where did you live?

18:58 Uh when my mother lived in there.

19:00 In the same village?

19:01 Yes, Kippax.

19:02 I see you've got a radio and a radio and a television set.

19:05 Have you got a washing machine anything like that?

19:07 Yes.

19:07 You have?

19:09 Mhm.

19:08 What else do you want?

19:09 I I some pelmets for my curtains.

19:12 Ornaments for the garden?

19:14 Yeah.

19:13 What about um a Hoover?

19:15 Have you got a Hoover?

19:16 I've got a Hoover, yeah.

19:17 Electric iron?

19:19 Yeah.

19:19 You're pretty well equipped.

19:19 Is there anything else?

19:22 No, I've got a

19:23 Mrs.

19:23 Pardy, we hear a lot about absenteeism.

19:25 Does your husband stay away from work much?

19:27 No, he doesn't.

19:29 Why?

19:29 Would you not like him to?

19:30 Oh, no, I like him to go to work because I mean he's got

19:32 a job to do and he's asked to go and do it, hasn't he?

19:35 What do you feel when you read a lot of criticism about miners being absent?

19:41 Well, I think when they're absent like that, they're not interested in the work.

19:45 They've no interest in it.

19:46 Or otherwise, they'd go, I should think.

19:49 But you don't know many who stay away.

19:51 Well, I know a few, yes, but uh How do their wives manage because they must

19:55 Well, that's what I'd like to know because I couldn't.

19:57 I couldn't manage at all.

19:59 Do you know what your husband earns?

20:02 Yes.

20:02 For some miners, their wives tell me they never learn.

20:05 Oh, yes, I know.

20:06 He tips up on a Friday, but I never see the notes.

20:09 Of course, uh if I went to look for it,

20:10 I suppose I'd find it's there for me to see.

20:13 But uh I never bother because I know it's there and that's all that matters.

20:17 Now, have you got all the electric things that Mrs.

20:19 Bell has got?

20:21 Yes, I've got a washing machine, electric iron,

20:23 and vacuum, and all the usual modern things, you know.

20:27 If you didn't know it,

20:28 I doubt if you'd notice the colliery where these women's husbands work.

20:32 It stands by the roadside and looks like one

20:34 of those modern factories on a trading estate near London.

20:38 What strikes one most forcibly, I think,

20:40 is that there's no dust or dirt

20:42 and that the buildings are surrounded by flowers and lawns.

20:45 And there's no noise except for the distant whine of electric motors

20:49 and a regular clanging clanging which comes

20:51 from this building beside which we're walking.

20:54 And that's the noise of the tubs as they come out of the shaft.

20:57 And this colliery produces almost as much coal as West

21:00 Riding with half the number of men and less absenteeism.

21:04 It's called Ledston Luck.

21:06 Mr.

21:07 Gill, you're working on this power loading now.

21:10 Can you tell me what difference it actually makes to the job you do

21:14 compared with the job you used to do when you were working on a conveyor?

21:18 Well, there's a lot of difference.

21:19 I mean, all the work's cut out.

21:21 I mean, there shovel work have no shovel work to do.

21:26 And I mean, no physique.

21:28 You don't use half the strength on on the power

21:31 loading as you do on all the conveyor.

21:33 fact do you do most of the time?

21:35 All the double the main job is of course we cut the first

21:39 with a a cut a low cutting machine which takes a 7-ft advance.

21:45 Yeah.

21:44 Then we blow it and with a a big automatic shovel that shovels it all up.

21:47 We don't touch a shovel.

21:49 have Well, as I just said, mate, that

21:50 Do you have to touch a press a button when you want the shovel to work on the

21:52 No, it's just an ordinary little arm.

21:54 You just press it.

21:55 The shovel goes forward and you you stop it when

21:58 it's gone far enough and it loads all the loose coal.

22:00 And then when to bring it back you bring it just turn the other way.

22:04 Yes.

22:04 And how much a day on your shift would you be getting out?

22:08 Well, providing the keeper's going with job is earning £4 a day.

22:12 Comfortable.

22:13 So, you can earn up to £28 a week at the Yes, yes.

22:17 Very easy.

22:17 Well, now do you think that with all this modern machinery

22:21 you'll find it easier to get young men coming into the industry?

22:24 Oh, definitely.

22:24 Yes.

22:25 Yes.

22:25 I mean, you don't want the same physique for power loading.

22:28 I mean, the hard slogging you you just I mean, the power does all the work.

22:31 The machine does all the work.

22:33 Mr.

22:33 Bell, you used to work in the pit before

22:35 there was any of this power machinery at all.

22:37 Yes, yes.

22:38 Well, now how does a day's work really compare?

22:43 Well, I think I can get in was a lot out of them what it is today.

22:46 Also, the money wasn't as good.

22:47 Of course, times have altered since you see.

22:50 We've had rises and Now, have you got any sons?

22:53 Yes, still.

22:54 Uh how old are they?

22:56 One's seven and one's eight.

22:58 Do you hope they come into the pit or not?

23:00 Well, uh I'd rather leave it to them till they a bit older,

23:03 you see, and let them have a bit of choice, a bit of say in the matter,

23:07 otherwise might fall back on me when they do get old.

23:11 Mr.

23:11 Bell, when did you come into the pit?

23:13 Well, 4 years ago.

23:15 4 years ago.

23:16 What were you doing before then?

23:17 I was a market gardener.

23:19 Market gardener?

23:19 Yes, that's right.

23:21 Uh what did you earn in gardening?

23:23 Well, about £5 a week before I came here.

23:27 Very small wages, I thought.

23:29 And today?

23:30 Well, 15 or 16.

23:33 Do you like the work?

23:34 Yes, very much, yes.

23:36 Isn't it much harder work than gardening?

23:38 Yes, it's harder, but uh there's a difference in the wages, and it's very hard,

23:45 I thought, to manage on £5 when you're married and you've a youngster.

23:50 Don't you find it rather monotonous sometimes?

23:52 I mean, when you were a gardener, you had all sorts of different jobs to do.

23:56 Yes, that's true, but uh you seem to uh be your own boss,

24:02 sort of thing, you know, if you're doing your work, nobody bothers you.

24:06 I like that.

24:08 One of the other men, Mr.

24:09 Prince, came straight over job to talk to me.

24:15 Mr.

24:16 Prince, you're a development man, aren't you?

24:19 Yes.

24:18 Are you getting much absenteeism here?

24:20 No, I don't think we are, about 9%.

24:22 We do very, very well for absenteeism.

24:24 And of that 9%, not much of it would be voluntary absenteeism anyway, would it?

24:28 No, it isn't.

24:28 We do very well for absenteeism in this pit.

24:31 Now, you've been in the pit for 45 years.

24:34 What do you think of mining as a career today?

24:37 Well, to me, I I would say that it's nearly as good as any other industry,

24:42 because uh bringing pit head baths

24:44 in and other facilities that they're being given,

24:47 it's made it more convenient than what it would be.

24:49 Have you got any sons?

24:51 Yes, I've two, and they both came to this pit.

24:53 Did you want them to?

24:55 No, I didn't.

24:55 I got them just given them free hand and told them they

24:57 could do what they liked and they both came to the pit.

25:04 Now, with the miners and their wives,

25:05 I fastened chiefly on one problem, absenteeism.

25:09 Why miners stay away.

25:11 And I think we got the true answer.

25:13 The chief cause is simply that there are too many middle-aged miners.

25:16 And when you get middle-aged people carrying your toughest industry,

25:20 you're bound to get a lot of illness.

25:23 But in addition, there are about five men out

25:26 of every 100 who stay away without any good reason.

25:29 And they are condemned by the miners just as much as by anybody else.

25:33 But even here, I think we've got to keep a sense of proportion.

25:37 If a face worker, and it's at the face that absenteeism chiefly occurs,

25:41 stays away from a pit, they lose not merely one day's pay, but two.

25:48 And it may be it may mean as much as £7 a week.

25:53 Now, what about people in other industries?

25:55 And they're not confined to wage earners, who,

25:57 to quote a shipyard worker in the program last week,

26:00 come to work, take the money of their employer, and then lie back on the job.

26:06 They get paid for doing nothing.

26:09 And I leave it to you to judge which is worse.

26:12 There's only one answer to this question of absenteeism,

26:15 and it is further mechanization.

26:18 But is the Coal Board really mechanizing enough?

26:21 This was one of the further questions I wanted to ask Jim Bowman.

26:26 Well, now, when you at your present rate of increasing production,

26:31 are you going to be able to give us enough coal

26:34 at the all the coal the country wants at the end of 10 years?

26:37 Oh, no.

26:38 No, no.

26:39 Uh you see, our investment program is based upon our estimates

26:44 of the country's energy requirements over the next 10 or 20 years.

26:49 Yeah.

26:49 Believe me, we are going to require all

26:51 the coal that our plan is uh intended to produce.

26:58 Well, I mean No, let me put it this way.

27:01 Uh we estimate that we can expect Britain's energy

27:05 requirements to increase from the present 260 million 1955 Yeah.

27:12 to about 380 million by 1975.

27:16 Well, what you're really saying is that we uh on your present program,

27:19 we shan't have enough coal.

27:21 Have you really set your sights higher

27:23 than what you need to increase the target?

27:25 We set our sights as high as it's physically possible to set.

27:29 There's absolutely no ceiling so far as we are concerned uh for output.

27:34 But we've done We are doing everything that can physically

27:37 be done to get the coal that the country requires.

27:39 Well, that means we shall never export coal again.

27:44 Well, it could, but so much depends upon the position at home.

27:50 If we continue with full employment and a buoyant economy,

27:55 we can expect that the energy demands at home are

28:00 going to require all the coal that we can produce plus.

28:03 What about stoppages?

28:05 If you had fewer of them, you'd be able to put your output up, wouldn't you?

28:08 Oh, I quite agree.

28:09 We've got far too many unconstitutional stoppages in the coal field.

28:14 We've had more than 2,000 already this year.

28:18 And unfortunately, about three quarters

28:20 of them are concentrated in three divisions.

28:23 What do you think the cause is, really?

28:26 Well, it's awfully difficult because you see,

28:28 about half the pits in Britain have no stoppages at all in any given year.

28:35 Every coal field has the same kind of conciliation machinery.

28:39 It operates excellently and splendidly in some fields,

28:43 and apparently it doesn't in others.

28:45 So, it's rather difficult to say what are the causes.

28:49 Do all the stoppages occur where the miners have got communist leaders?

28:54 Well, I have no evidence which would entitle me to say

28:57 that I have more stoppages where I have a communist leader than elsewhere.

29:02 I have no evidence to justify that.

29:07 Now, let me try and answer at least one of my main questions.

29:11 Are the miners letting this country down?

29:15 As far as absenteeism is concerned, I would quite definitely say no.

29:19 The number of men who are away without reason is really very small.

29:24 But, as far as stoppages is concerned, it's quite another story.

29:27 We are losing millions of tons of coal each year through unofficial strikes.

29:33 Now, undoubtedly one of the causes is bad management.

29:36 It always is in these cases.

29:39 But, I believe there's another cause as well.

29:42 Jim Bowman said that he hadn't any evidence

29:44 to show that stoppages are connected with communist leadership.

29:48 But, the fact is that by far the largest

29:50 number of stoppages take place in Scotland and South Wales,

29:55 where a majority of the miners' leaders are communists,

29:58 and in Yorkshire, where communist influence is enormously on the increase.

30:02 Now, from what I've heard,

30:04 none of these disputes really warranted a strike at all.

30:08 And if the local officials had been thinking only of their men,

30:12 I don't believe the strikes would have taken place.

30:16 But, that's a subject we're going to hear more about in the next program.

30:20 Good night.