Ebon Moss-Bachrach on THE BEAR, FANTASTIC FOUR, AVENGERS: DOOMSDAY, ANDOR, GIRLS, & more!
Josh Horowitz
0:00 My first movie that I did was with Gene
0:02 Wilder and I remember him telling me and we
0:05 were talking about different ways of acting and people
0:09 staying in character and he said, you know,
0:12 it's incredible for someone to go and stay in character
0:15 for the whole day and and be and live that out
0:18 and really be that person and transform into that person
0:20 and live as that person through the center and everything.
0:22 He said, "What's more incredible is to do
0:24 that and then to go home to your family
0:26 and be like a dad and a husband or a friend." And that really stayed with me.
0:32 Prepare your ears, humans.
0:34 Happy, sad, confused begins now.
0:39 Hey guys, it's Josh.
0:40 Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused.
0:42 Today on the show, first time guest.
0:44 It's Eban Moss Back, Talking Dog Day Afternoon, The Bear, Fantastic 4, and more.
0:50 Uh, thanks guys as always for checking out the podcast.
0:53 Thank you for subscribing or if you haven't subscribed already,
0:55 I don't know what you're doing.
0:56 Do it right now on YouTube, on Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts.
1:00 Um, as I said, Eban Moss Backrack is the main event today.
1:04 He's got a lot going on.
1:05 He is currently on Broadway in the adaptation of the seinal film,
1:10 of course, Dog Day Afternoon, inspired by True Events, Him and John Bernthal.
1:14 Speaking of him and John Bernthal,
1:16 of course, friends and co-stars from The Bear,
1:19 their episode, Gary, has just dropped out of nowhere.
1:22 They star in it.
1:23 It's a backstory episode that they co-wrote, A Real Labor of Love.
1:26 We talk about that, the final season of The Bear, his work in Marvel.
1:31 Lot going on with this guy.
1:32 A really great conversation.
1:34 Uh, before we get to Eban, as always, a reminder,
1:36 if you like what I do, check out our Patreon.
1:38 patreon.com/happy sadconfused.
1:42 We've always got a lot of events coming and here are just a few.
1:45 In just I think about 48 hours if you're watching or listening
1:47 to this right when this drops I'll be in Los Angeles with the Duffer brothers.
1:52 Tickets are still available.
1:53 We are diving into the end of Stranger Things.
1:56 These guys always have a lot to say.
1:59 They always inspire a little controversy.
2:00 Come on out, see them live.
2:02 Got a special video message for the one
2:04 and only David Harbor and more surprises.
2:06 Tickets are still available.
2:07 The link is in the show notes.
2:09 Also talking to Billy Iikner on May 17th in New York City.
2:13 That's going to be a fun one.
2:14 He has a new audio memoir.
2:15 And on May 18th in New York, get a load of this.
2:18 We are talking to the stars and director of Power Bow.
2:21 This great new movie directed by John
2:23 Carney and starring Paul Rudd and Nick Jonas.
2:26 They are all joining me May 18th, New York City, and we are screening the film.
2:30 So, a lot of opportunities to see me do my thing in person.
2:34 And as always, all that information and discount codes is on our Patreon.
2:37 patreon.com/happy sadconfused.
2:40 Okay, like I said, main event, Eban Moss Back.
2:43 I'm not going to talk anymore because you want to hear from the man himself.
2:46 Uh what a chill great guy.
2:48 We also talk about girls, of course.
2:50 Um and yeah, just so happy he finally did the podcast.
2:54 He's been one that I've been circling for a while, so it was worth the wait.
2:57 I know you guys are going to enjoy this one.
2:58 Here he is.
2:59 Me and Evan Moss back.
3:02 Eban Josh,
3:04 are you ready for this?
3:08 No.
3:08 Don't know what you signed up for today.
3:10 Yeah, but here we are.
3:11 Uh, thank you for doing this, man.
3:12 Whether you know it or not, you've been on the list.
3:14 There are bad lists and good list.
3:15 This is a good list.
3:17 Okay.
3:17 You've been on the list for happy.
3:18 So intrigued about the bad list.
3:20 Can we Can we get right into that?
3:21 Who's on that one?
3:22 Well, that's the naughty list.
3:23 That's obviously no Christmas presents.
3:25 That's Santa's list.
3:26 I I have no bad list.
3:27 Oh, you don't have a bad list, though.
3:28 Maybe I should start one today, though.
3:29 I don't know.
3:30 I heard that.
3:30 I know some podcasters get like if some a last minute cancellation.
3:36 Well, yeah, off mic we can talk about some people.
3:38 See, here we go.
3:39 We can go there.
3:40 Let's see how familiar we get.
3:42 Yeah.
3:42 Uh you are the first Eban on this podcast.
3:44 Okay.
3:44 Naturally.
3:45 Um first back, not Moss.
3:47 We can count Elizabeth Moss, I guess, in the middle there.
3:51 Sure.
3:51 Um did your was your name ever a name that felt like a hindrance?
3:55 Did anybody ever say like you got to change the name?
3:58 Professionally speaking,
3:59 my name feels like a hindrance every second of every day for me.
4:02 It is a it is a[ __] mouthful, man.
4:06 Um, but Starbucks, what do they what do they think?
4:08 What do I think you're saying when you're Oh, yeah.
4:10 I don't mess with Starbucks really too much, but it but it is like, you know,
4:13 I'll I'll just drop the back rack when I'm trying
4:15 to like get a reservation or something and then do things,
4:18 you know, things like that.
4:19 It just seems like too much.
4:21 Um I once um was on a list of like um
4:26 people on like a host committee for some sort of benefit thing
4:29 and there was I don't know maybe like 50 actors or something
4:31 and the only person longer than me was Cedric the Entertainer
4:37 which was his given birth name I believe he came out of the womb.
4:40 No, see he chose See he I I've you know he chose it.
4:42 He he he chose it.
4:44 Um but this was something given to me.
4:46 No one ever said maybe change it.
4:48 I thought about it for a while and then I don't know I
4:50 was too lazy or proud or you know I'm from Massachusetts and you
4:56 know I didn't want that whole you know change it up and then
4:58 people say well you know who do you think you are you know
5:01 right you think you better than us.
5:02 Did you ever entertain Did you have a a list going?
5:04 Did you have an alternate name in mind?
5:07 Oh um uh no I I never really made it that far.
5:13 Now obviously people know the name know who you are.
5:16 like you I I feel like you have
5:17 a sweet spot of a really good level of celebrity.
5:20 Like is that is that fair to say?
5:22 I feel like you can walk the streets, you're fine.
5:25 Also, New York helps the vibe in New York.
5:27 Yeah.
5:27 Yeah.
5:28 Do you feel that that's accurate even given obviously the bumps along the way
5:31 of like the bump ups like with with girls with the bear fantastic 4?
5:35 It's it's still manageable.
5:37 I don't find my my life is not like hindered or interrupt, you know.
5:40 I I can live my life just fine.
5:44 No, you know, no one's no one's really chasing me around too much.
5:47 I'm good.
5:47 I'm I'm good.
5:48 Well, I think also part of it is what you project out into the world, right?
5:50 It's like some people if you want that kind of attention,
5:54 you can live that kind of life.
5:55 Like if you're living a life like I know I've seen you on the subway.
5:59 Sorry, I saw you from afar.
6:00 I didn't say anything.
6:01 But like you're out and about.
6:02 You're just like living like a normal human being.
6:05 And I think that engenders a certain level of like I'm
6:08 a normal human being if you act like a normal human being.
6:12 Well, yeah.
6:12 I mean, you know, I have two immediate thoughts.
6:16 One thing is that, you know,
6:16 people get the PR machine going and they they really
6:19 whip it up and put their picture everywhere and, you know,
6:22 and then they complain about having no anonymity
6:24 and that seems a little bit disingenuous to me.
6:27 But the second thing for me is like, yeah, I mean,
6:29 I got no interest in not being able to have a kind
6:35 of not take the subway and I don't know, not be a nor.
6:39 That doesn't seem like very good for acting to sort
6:41 of sequester yourself in some kind of tower and insulate yourself.
6:44 It seems like that's Yeah.
6:46 I don't know.
6:46 Not not not not great for the job.
6:48 Yeah.
6:49 Because I mean I've often heard from actors talk about
6:52 the value of just you know people watching of observing others.
6:54 I mean that was never if you if you're the one being observed that's
6:59 going to take away a superpower that you can draw upon I would think.
7:03 Yeah.
7:03 And people are just treating you in a certain way.
7:05 I mean, you know, I'm just a, you know, a dude in in New York.
7:10 Really?
7:12 So, you're in the middle of a lot of things.
7:13 I saw Dog Day Afternoon.
7:14 Congratulations.
7:15 Oh, you did?
7:15 Okay, cool.
7:16 Thanks.
7:16 Fantastic.
7:16 Thanks.
7:17 Um, an amazing ensemble led by you and your buddy John Bernthal,
7:20 who I don't know if you and Bernthal are now spending more
7:22 time like it feels like your wife and Bernthal probably equal measure.
7:26 There's a like they're equally
7:27 Oh my god, it's I've spent much more time with John in the past six weeks or so.
7:32 I mean, my wife my wife was gone.
7:33 and she was she saw that we were rehearsing a plane trying to get
7:37 it on his feet and she was like oh I'll take this opportunity
7:39 to go and like you know do a big photo trip in Europe
7:42 so she she took off for a while which was really smart of her
7:45 so he's the work wife
7:46 yeah um and obviously we're going to talk about Gary as well
7:49 but I want to start with like just dog day because
7:52 I don't know what are you like during a production you've obviously done
7:54 a lot of theater this is your first Broadway production I don't know if you
7:58 feel a discernable difference or not but
8:01 are you in a kind of different head space or to a different
8:03 kind of I don't know person during production of a a theatrical
8:09 production or a TV show or a film or are you
8:12 able to kind of comp compartmentalize and live your normal life?
8:14 Okay, that's like that's a lot of variables.
8:16 First of all, there there I do notice
8:18 a big difference between Broadway and and off Broadway.
8:21 um just in the scale, the budget,
8:24 the level of production, the expectation of the audience,
8:27 the size of the audience, um the the the demographic of the auditions,
8:34 the diversity of the audience on Broadway is a lot better
8:38 than when I've done plays in the past in off Broadway houses,
8:41 which are oftentimes subscriberbased and there's a sort
8:44 of it's a very sort of kind of thousand people keep going to everything.
8:48 New Yorker NPR.
8:49 I mean, this is obviously I'm generalizing, you know,
8:51 but there's a there that and you know,
8:53 um, so there's a lot of that, but but our audiences
8:55 are incredible in Dog Day Afternoon.
8:57 People are from all over the city and all
8:58 the country and all over the world and and very young.
9:03 Um, so that's very exciting.
9:05 in terms of what my life is like.
9:07 Yeah.
9:07 When you when I'm doing a play,
9:09 everything sort of works backwards from the time of curtain, you know,
9:12 that that is sort of the the holies moment
9:16 in the day and that just sort of, you know,
9:17 when I eat, when I sleep,
9:19 what I'm thinking about it is all for better or for worse about,
9:23 you know, about that the place.
9:26 So the normally I think I probably have a more
9:31 chaotic or um drifty transient sort of days, you know, carefree.
9:40 Maybe that's a nice way to say it.
9:42 Very good.
9:42 Or transient sounds fun.
9:43 Yeah.
9:43 Yeah, transient sounds fun.
9:46 Um you're talking about between jobs though.
9:47 Obviously, when you're doing like the bear or something, that's a structure to
9:51 that's a structure, too.
9:51 But again, that structure is not as root.
9:53 Like, you know, some days I go in at 5 a.m., sometimes I go in at 5:00 p.m.
9:58 Um, and but this is like very routinized
10:02 and I and I like kind of that, you know, I wake up, I exercise, I,
10:08 you know, I have a couple of things I do, you know,
10:10 do do some things around the house, spend time with my wife.
10:13 I mean, you know, like I do like some meal prep.
10:15 every day is is is is very similar.
10:17 And there's something really nice and comforting about that.
10:21 When I do something like the bear, when I'm working on location,
10:25 um I just go to work when they tell me to go to work and then I'm back
10:28 in my hotel room and I'm just sort of just
10:30 waiting to go to I don't it's like a very
10:34 um more monastic kind of like even though the routine
10:38 of the the theater feels in some ways monastic.
10:40 I'm home, so I'm uh I'm getting to do all my projects.
10:44 I'm I'm cooking a lot and right doing all my weird little, you know,
10:48 not to mention you're feeling like that hopefully that level of satisfaction
10:51 like going on the journey of the character every almost every single night.
10:54 Like there must be no greater high for an actor when you've kind of gone
10:59 to the end of the journey
10:59 and hopefully feel feel like you accomplished something.
11:03 And yeah, I mean with this I don't know with plays
11:05 for me it always feels like the horizon's just receding.
11:09 I I I I don't feel oh like I nailed it or that was a real home run.
11:14 There's parts that I like every night, different parts,
11:17 things that I felt went well, things that I felt did not go well.
11:21 And it's, you know, it's um elusive and ephemeral and kind
11:27 of hard to put your finger on what the thing is.
11:29 You're sort of chasing this kind of misty amorphous thing.
11:31 And so that that that's exciting and frustrating, right?
11:36 Yeah.
11:35 This obviously I mean everybody knows the name.
11:37 Hopefully everybody listening or watching this knows what Dog Day Afternoon is.
11:40 If if you don't know the film, I mean, what are you doing with your life?
11:44 It's one of times for um I mean I'm sure early on like
11:49 myself like any cophile you went through the Lumette
11:52 Pacino kazowl phase and just kind of like dove
11:55 in like was this a seminal film for you?
11:59 Yes.
11:59 I don't have that mo that crystalline moment where I
12:03 remember watching it and leaving the theater a different person.
12:05 I can't remember when I saw it the first time.
12:07 I mean, definitely that whole period of the of '7s cinema is like
12:12 still I think to me is the greatest decade of movies that we have.
12:16 Um and that movie and you know and Godfather and conversation um
12:30 they are very much like in like fabric DNA
12:34 whatever you want to call it of of everything
12:37 after I mean I mean hopefully it's impossible you
12:39 know that just that they changed everything and they they
12:45 um the immediacy of those movies and the and the political
12:48 nature of them and the anxiety that they that is
12:52 in them and the level of commitment from the actors just
12:56 raised the bar and and Kazowl for those that don't know.
12:59 I mean, his his story is unbelievable just because of sadly
13:03 the short life he led and the the few films he made.
13:06 I think he made like five movies and they were like all best picture nominees.
13:10 It's insane what he did.
13:11 Yeah.
13:12 Um, I would think at a certain point,
13:13 hopefully early on, you have to kind of like you and Burnthal and everybody
13:16 on the team's like they're going to be the comparisons that's going to happen,
13:18 but we have to just forge ahead and block that part of my brain out.
13:23 Like, how do you deal with that?
13:25 That's comparisons are inevitable.
13:26 I mean, I've said this in other interviews, but it's like, you know, this story,
13:30 the movie is based on an actual, you know,
13:31 the actual robbery that happened on August 22nd.
13:34 And I and I think the story of that robbery is so big and and iconic
13:41 and mythic in a way that it can hold many different versions of, you know,
13:46 like there could be an opera, there could be,
13:48 you know, a comic book of the thing.
13:51 Unfortunately for us,
13:52 there's one of the best movies ever made and then our play, you know,
13:56 so it would have been a lot easier if there a couple of other things in between.
14:00 I mean, it would have been a, you know,
14:01 it would have taken a lot of the pressure off of our back
14:03 and also it would have been a little bit um easier, I think, for audiences.
14:08 I'm kind of finding that a lot of the people that come and see
14:12 the play have not seen the movie and then they go off and see the movie.
14:14 Um, and a lot of people that are going
14:16 in expecting to see the movie uh on a play,
14:20 I just I'm left kind of scratching my head
14:22 because like why why would we try to do that?
14:24 Well, also I going in honestly I was kind of like how would they even do that?
14:27 And I think one of the joys of seeing the play
14:29 is kind of how you guys stretch it and move it
14:32 around it and just reinterpret it in your own way because
14:35 it does feel alive in a different way than the film does.
14:38 It's it's a holy
14:39 Yeah.
14:39 and and G Stephen Alley Gar is the playright like he's
14:42 got such an his own um rhythms and distinctive voice and
14:48 he has such an amazing ear for the cultural
14:52 specificities of time and place in New York
14:54 and and you know sheep's head bay and it's just
14:58 it's it's richer in a in a way and then
15:02 theater is just so different than I mean John
15:06 was like shot in close-ups he he didn't say
15:08 much in that movie and that you know theater is a a medium of of words you know.
15:14 Yeah.
15:14 I don't think anyone's seeing maybe in 1975 they
15:16 were chanting Adica in the theater but I doubt it.
15:18 They probably weren't screaming at the screen.
15:21 They probably were screaming at the screen
15:22 but who knows what they were screaming.
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18:32 Is there any is there any downside?
18:33 There a lot of upsides to knowing your co-star for over 20 years.
18:36 Is there any downside?
18:37 Like, do you know his tells?
18:39 He must know your tells within a moment, within a scene,
18:43 like whether you're going up on a line or something like that.
18:46 Like I mean there's things that I can tell John, you know,
18:49 everyone has things that they fall back on whether they they know it or not.
18:52 Little things and I see things in John and I can sort of preempt him sometimes
18:57 and if he starts to do this thing where he puts his head to the side,
19:01 I'll put my head to the side first and sort of beat
19:03 him to it and sort of keep him honest a little bit.
19:05 Um but there's no for the most part so far, you know, there's been no downside.
19:10 It's been all upside.
19:12 It would be very very difficult to do this um without like a brother like that.
19:17 Um especially because John is so uniquely um
19:23 honest and courageous and strong and and and physical.
19:26 Like I don't know how many other actors could pull this off.
19:29 Did you guys back in the day ever go up for the same roles?
19:33 Like were you in those same audition rooms?
19:36 Um I don't think so.
19:38 I don't think we were ever in the same audition rooms.
19:42 He w he didn't live in New York very long.
19:45 I mean, he was here for a little while, but then he went out to LA and then
19:48 I think he got pretty successful fairly quickly out there.
19:52 Um, yeah, I don't think we were ever really up for the same part.
19:55 I mean, he's said many times and we talked about this a bunch,
19:58 but like he understudied me many, many years ago.
20:01 So, we were in that room together, the the you know,
20:03 the Signature Theater out on West 42nd Street there.
20:06 But um aside from that, no,
20:09 I don't think we're really up for different for the same things.
20:12 So, had you ever ridden before together?
20:14 Have you ever ridden period?
20:15 Because this So, as we tape this just a couple days ago,
20:18 this gift from the Bear Heavens came to us.
20:22 Thanks for calling it that.
20:23 Yeah.
20:24 Um this great episode called Gary,
20:25 which obviously details the backstory um of your two characters a bit.
20:29 Um how did this one come around?
20:31 Like was this like something you pitch Christo?
20:34 Does Christo say like, "Hey,
20:35 you want to take a crack at this?" What's the origin here?
20:39 You know, John's got very little to do in the show,
20:41 but he's but that shadow that his character, the spectre of, you know,
20:45 the recently departed Mikey Berado is massive and certainly
20:50 massive for Carmy and for my character Richie.
20:53 You know, when we find him in the beginning of season one,
20:56 everyone's like grieving pretty hard, especially my guy.
20:58 He's really like doesn't know what to do with himself.
21:02 Um, and I'd always been interested in finding
21:06 a moment to show what he's grieving, like what he's lost, you know,
21:12 what is that friendship, what is that brotherhood,
21:15 what is the the sort of joy
21:17 that these men had had together and their relationship.
21:21 And so when we were coming up now I can say
21:24 that that you know the last season we were approaching season five.
21:27 Um uh John and I were talking about maybe we wanted to pitch to Chris just some
21:36 couple scenes to have throughout the season of flashbacks
21:40 where maybe we we could see what these
21:42 what life was like in in like the golden era
21:46 sort of you know so to speak of of the beef.
21:49 Um, and so we scheduled a call with John, Chris, and myself.
21:54 And before John and I could even say anything, Chris was said, "Hey, listen.
22:00 Let me pitch you guys something.
22:01 What do you guys think about writing an episode,
22:03 just a standalone for for Richie and Mikey,
22:06 and it would be a kind of a a western where you
22:10 guys got to like go from one place to another." And Chris
22:14 and I had both been watching a lot of westerns and he said
22:16 it kind of like a 310 to Yuma sort of thing where you
22:20 go from one place to another and then there's this almost existential sort
22:23 of waiting period that happens and then there's probably like a girl at the bar,
22:28 you know, as there always is, you know,
22:30 and so we're like we we were like we couldn't believe
22:36 what a gift it was that Chris offered up for us.
22:38 So we got we got off the phone and we quickly called each other and I was like,
22:41 "Man, I can't believe this." John's like, "Yeah,
22:43 oh my god, I got like tears in my eyes.
22:45 What a beautiful person Chris is to give us this opportunity."
22:48 And we um so we immediately had a bunch of ideas
22:52 and I think not long after that we were doing a workshop
22:56 of Dog Day Afternoon in Time Square just just with the with the writer
23:00 and and the director and of some other actors and things.
23:03 And every day we did it for two or three days and every day after rehearsal
23:08 we would walk back to John's hotel and then we get to his hotel and we
23:12 would just write over you know for for a couple of hours and really quick
23:17 ideas and overall and then sort of sharper
23:19 and sharper and sharper until we had um
23:23 got a fairly general script and then over the next few
23:26 months that script got really fleshed out and it's pretty specific.
23:31 I mean, there's a little bit of improv in in in the show,
23:33 but it's it's all pretty scripted.
23:34 And
23:35 like when they go into the when they're buying the what's
23:37 the the um the con uh is that the Yeah.
23:41 Is she behind the counter?
23:42 Is she like like a
23:43 So, she's not her actor.
23:43 She She works there.
23:45 Yeah.
23:45 Yeah.
23:45 That felt she, you know, the bear likes to do that thing where,
23:48 you know, there there's always like there's a lot of chefs,
23:51 actual chefs that are in it, and they always end up being like these really like
23:55 fancy chefs, you know, fine dining kind of like stars.
23:59 I I thought it was great that we actually were
24:02 talking to like somebody was just like at a hot dog,
24:04 you know, like at a hot dog stand,
24:06 which is essentially what these guys really do, you know,
24:08 like she was like a, you know, a sister just like down the road.
24:13 That's amazing.
24:13 It's al I mean to hear I mean it's the golden era,
24:16 but it's also like the stuff that you guys say to each other in this episode.
24:20 I mean, it's like you're obviously like
24:23 you're playing roles and you're playing characters,
24:25 but you're still see you're looking into the eyes
24:27 of your friend saying some despicable things to you.
24:30 I mean, what's that like to hear like John go at you
24:33 in the form of that character towards the end of this episode?
24:37 Um, it's it's heartbreaking to watch.
24:39 Yeah.
24:39 I mean, he was very scary in that scene and very sad
24:42 and volatile and it's you're just sort of watching a man receive,
24:45 you know, who was in such a beautiful place a few minutes ago.
24:48 I mean, you know, yeah.
24:50 Um, but, um, you know, I'm sure everyone's seen that thing where you see
24:55 someone's eyes change and you don't know where they're going,
24:58 but it's not somewhere where you really want to follow them to.
25:01 Um, so yeah, those are those that that scene in particular was scary.
25:08 I said the golden age,
25:09 but that's that's what we were really initially thinking because I think
25:13 so much of the time I'm I'm so interested in the car
25:15 in a character's like joy and and what their best scenario
25:18 is and what their dreams are and we don't get to see
25:21 that all that much and with Richie we didn't really get
25:23 to see it that much and I I want I wanted
25:25 to see the golden golden era or so to speak but this was
25:29 not really that but they they do have moments in that.
25:32 Yeah.
25:32 Yeah, but this is very much I mean I think timelinewise that episode's end
25:39 ends up being it's it's after the fish's episode and before he takes his life.
25:44 So it's and it's maybe if not the last time the two of them spoke.
25:50 Um it's sort of the last time they really spent some time together.
25:54 It's also going to I mean obviously I haven't had time to like rewatch
25:56 episodes like since but like I think it's going to enrich going back now.
26:00 I mean, like to think about the things that he
26:02 says to to Richie about like um you know,
26:05 you're going to be a horrible father and Richie's not.
26:07 Richie is like such a a great dad and to see how he's he didn't live up to
26:12 what his friend said in his worst moment is is is kind of a beautiful thing.
26:17 Um Yeah.
26:19 Yeah.
26:19 And I think Yeah.
26:20 I mean, I think in that moment, you know,
26:21 he and you wonder how much of his dedication to his daughter,
26:27 I mean, I think that's who he is
26:28 as someone who really had didn't have many parental figures.
26:33 I mean I I don't want to get into like these are things that I know that I think
26:37 about the guy myself but that I don't really
26:39 like to share them but um how you know when
26:46 you want to opposition is a good motivator you
26:50 know you say okay you said I'm not going
26:52 to do it watch this like[ __] you dude I'm
26:55 I am here I ain't going anywhere for this kid um
27:00 and I'm going to give her what you know no one ever gave me and I
27:04 do think he's a wonderful dad and I'm
27:06 so happy that that's how the character is portrayed.
27:09 Um it's also said I mean you you allude to this like
27:12 the gift when like Chris comes to you guys and says like you
27:15 know what I'd like you guys to take a crack at this and like
27:17 write this like that's as you well know not the norm.
27:20 This is like is it fair to say like the bear from the start
27:23 has been one of the more collaborative environments you've ever been a part of?
27:27 Without a doubt.
27:29 And it's not just with the actors, but I think with the whole crew,
27:36 the bear was always a set where everyone was part of the discussion
27:42 of the story and and what we were trying to uh you know,
27:47 the look or the lighting, you know, depending on what people's department was.
27:50 It was always deeply deeply collaborative.
27:53 And I've found a few different kinds
27:56 of directors that I've worked with, you know,
27:57 and some are like can can operate on a macro
28:01 and a micro level and want to, you know,
28:03 control everything and adjust everyone's pant length and just
28:06 just just really have their fingers in every decision,
28:11 aesthetic, story, character, everything.
28:13 And that's really impressive to be able to hold
28:15 that amount of like real estate and sort of artistic vision.
28:18 And then I've also worked with directors that just
28:20 like hire the people that they want to hire.
28:22 Yep.
28:23 And then let everyone do their job.
28:24 And Chris is definitely more I think in in that camp.
28:27 Um which is a which is a beautiful way to operate.
28:30 I think it's so trusting and inspiring.
28:33 Um yeah, it's interesting because I would
28:35 imagine both can be very very rewarding.
28:37 Like if you're in the hands of I know it was
28:39 a bit part but like Wes Anderson or someone like that.
28:41 It's like yeah, I'm going to trust and I want to be kind of like
28:45 a tool in the toolbox and I will trust them to move me around.
28:48 Yeah, but on the flip side,
28:50 like to feel ownership over your character
28:52 and to feel like you're not even an owner,
28:54 just a collaborator, like a true collaborator on a set,
28:57 that's kind of what it's all about.
28:59 Um, as an artist hopefully, I think so.
29:01 I mean, I like the I like the the different experiences.
29:05 I like all all the different you know I made a movie
29:08 with Iris Sachs earlier this year and Ira like very his vision
29:12 is very very specific and I would say come to him
29:15 with some ideas about lines or outfit or things and he'd be like
29:21 okay I disagree with you know but he would he would hear me and listen
29:25 to me and then just say I was wrong or and a couple times
29:28 I would you know he he was okay with it but um I don't
29:31 know I love all that stuff and if it's if it's a if it's a
29:35 if it's a director whose movies I love and I'm willing to say, "Okay, man.
29:38 I'll you know, I'll I'll I'll buy the buy the ticket and take your ride."
29:42 How are you on a line a line reading?
29:44 Um, I'm kind of okay with a line reading.
29:46 I think when I was younger and angrier,
29:48 I like the principle of it would would would frustrate me.
29:52 Now sometimes it's just like let's just Yeah.
29:55 Like can you just tell me what the[ __] you know, just want it louder?
29:58 That's fine.
29:59 You know, people there's a story I heard about like Gene Hackman, I guess,
30:02 who would just say you would just have I
30:04 don't know whether it be like Freeden or whatever.
30:06 He just wanted them to go like this or this.
30:09 Not like thumbs up, good job, but just like a little like down
30:13 bring it down or just keep staying where you are.
30:14 And that's kind of general, not specific.
30:17 And I and I and I like that.
30:20 Yeah.
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32:02 So, diving back because we have the luxury of time a little bit.
32:04 Um, growing up, are you a jock?
32:07 Are you a nerd?
32:08 Are you somewhere in between?
32:09 Are you a little bit of everything?
32:10 What's What's young Eban like?
32:12 I am like deeply into reading fantasy books.
32:19 Um, a little Dungeons and Dragons, playing in the woods.
32:23 I grew up, you know, outside of Amoris, Massachusetts.
32:25 Lots of woods, spending time out there.
32:28 Um, pretty social, lot of music.
32:33 Yeah, I played piano for a very long time.
32:35 Starting when I was young, music was a big part of my house.
32:39 Yeah.
32:39 Uh my dad ran a music school.
32:40 My grandmother was a piano instructor at Giuliard.
32:44 And so this was just sort of a non-negotiable part of my upbringing
32:49 that I quickly really loved and became part of my identity.
32:52 I loved classical music.
32:54 Um and and then at a certain point in high school,
32:58 I started playing jazz and then it became more of a social thing.
33:01 And that was was was that was a really inspiring um moment
33:07 and I think that was maybe
33:08 the beginning of my love of collaborative collaboration.
33:12 Yeah.
33:12 Um and also improvisation and
33:20 um spontaneity and and this idea of present and the moment which is
33:25 is is is so essential to to acting and certainly in the theater group.
33:30 There's improv involved in Dn D.
33:32 You gota you gotta you gotta kind of just you got to roll with it.
33:36 Yeah.
33:37 Literally and figuratively.
33:38 Yeah.
33:38 Exactly.
33:39 There it is.
33:40 Well done.
33:40 Were you um were you like a Tolken guy?
33:42 He's talking about fantasy.
33:43 Like what were you reading?
33:44 I was reading like Robert Jordan.
33:48 Okay.
33:47 Piers Anthony the Zanth series like Terry um what's his name?
33:54 I like Douglas Adams.
33:55 Yeah.
33:56 Uh Frank Herbert, you know,
33:58 like I was I was never hard fantasy, hard science fiction.
34:03 Okay.
34:03 Um Terry Patchet.
34:05 Terry Pratchett.
34:06 Yeah.
34:06 Yes.
34:06 Yes.
34:06 Yes.
34:07 Yes.
34:09 Um I Dune is pretty hard sci-fi.
34:12 No.
34:12 Is that not considered?
34:13 Yeah.
34:13 To be honest, I didn't really get into Dune.
34:15 I tried when I was a kid and I c I couldn't get into one.
34:18 It's a
34:19 And then I tried many times with Dune
34:21 and then maybe the fifth time I started reading it,
34:24 I was like, "Wow." And I I read like the the six of them like back to back.
34:29 Oh wow.
34:30 Yeah.
34:30 Yeah.
34:30 There's a lot there.
34:31 Yeah.
34:31 Oh my god.
34:32 Do you like the movies?
34:33 I do like the movies.
34:34 I think they're great.
34:35 I mean Denise obviously.
34:37 Oh my god.
34:37 What a world builder.
34:40 Yeah.
34:39 Those kinds of movies, you know.
34:41 Um I would kind of rather watch than be a part of because you know you can't
34:48 you can't unsee see how the sausage is made ex you know what I mean?
34:53 And I and I'm really good about going in and I love escapist
34:56 films and I love to just have the world sort of melt away.
34:59 And so but you've you've been in Star Wars, you've been in Marvel.
35:02 Like are those movies ruined for you now?
35:04 I mean, you know how you know The Thing is not an actual guy in a suit.
35:08 Yeah, you know,
35:10 I guess um um that's what you say.
35:13 Um when I did when I worked on Andor I will say
35:20 so the my first scene was you know I got to London I
35:24 had to quarantine for two weeks I didn't leave my hotel it
35:27 was like deep co my the first scene we shot was this death
35:30 scene where uh Diego Luna just I sort of bring up
35:34 this idea like you know we can there's I know about a moon
35:38 like a couple thousand parexs from here and and He's he looks
35:43 at me and he just shoots me with a blaster and I die.
35:45 So that like what a horrible first day.
35:48 I'd never met Diego and like he was he was lovely.
35:51 Nice to meet you.
35:51 We started shooting.
35:52 We're somewhere in some cornfield outside of London.
35:56 And the director came up and said, "Okay, so there's a moon there
36:00 and then there's another moon over there." And I'm like looking at my lines.
36:04 I was like, "Oh, and then I got to say Parex." And I was like,
36:07 "Whoa, that was like that was a lot." Because Star Wars was really important.
36:10 You know, I was born in 77.
36:12 you know, so and I had the little Star Wars action figures.
36:15 Like that was that was my I mean I love that stuff.
36:17 So that was overwhelming and my you know my my my pulse
36:21 got going and I had to like you know I had to like
36:23 dry my palms a little bit and then and then get
36:25 into and try to act because it was it did feel like so um Yeah.
36:29 You're entering your childhood fantasies.
36:31 Yeah, it was it was it was a lot.
36:33 It was a bit um hallucinatory.
36:36 Um, and on the Marvel front, um,
36:40 was that is that I mean there was so much talk about the casting,
36:42 a lot of names were being bandied about for all four of you.
36:45 Like
36:45 were they like screen testing you guys or was
36:47 that just an offer at the end of the day?
36:49 Like I got an offer I think I got an offer before anybody else.
36:53 I didn't have any screen testing.
36:55 I'm I've had to jump through a lot of hoops in my life
36:58 and this was one that I did not have to which I mean that's a pretty great gift.
37:02 Yeah, it was a great I was really shocked when it was just like I
37:05 was just walking down Fifth Avenue one day
37:07 and there my agents called and they're like,
37:09 "Yeah, they asked you to do it." I was like, "What?" Um,
37:13 was there any hesitancy?
37:15 I mean, there obviously a lot of pros
37:18 and there are always cons and like obviously
37:21 joining a multi- film arc and that's going
37:25 to take you away from other opportunities, etc.
37:27 There could be the fame aspect like was there any
37:29 kind of hesitancy for you to to jump into it?
37:33 Um well I always want you know you want to think about
37:38 the whole you want to be very sober about about you know sure
37:41 and you and I'm not
37:43 the kind of person who's just been dying
37:45 to be a superhero or anything like that.
37:47 So I I really weighed and for me a huge attraction to it
37:51 was that I was going to be playing a character that was motion capture.
37:55 Yeah.
37:54 Or or performance capture and that was going to be very much me.
37:58 But I mean to so many fans they got you know they don't unless
38:04 they're like real Marvel heads they don't connect me with the the orange guy.
38:09 So I found a lot of freedom in that
38:11 freedom to play and
38:16 um
38:16 and like yeah it could be I felt like it could be
38:18 experimental almost in a way sort of a I don't know really
38:24 push like my physicality as an actor.
38:26 I don't know it just it just it to me it seemed like
38:31 speaking for me the per personally the the best way
38:33 for me to be a part of this this universe.
38:36 Well, we literally just had Andy Circus in here, so it's
38:38 I saw that.
38:39 Yeah.
38:39 Yeah.
38:39 So, I mean, like and and those that like buy into it and really enjoy it,
38:42 like they embrace it.
38:43 I mean, often it is theater actors,
38:45 people that have a lot of experience that love it,
38:46 I feel like, because it is it's almost back to like blackbox theater.
38:49 It's like really using your imagination and using your physicality.
38:52 And I mean, how freeing as an actor, you know,
38:55 you want to think as an actor you can be anything.
38:56 With performance capture, you can literally be anything.
39:00 Yep.
39:00 I think that for all the people like for for Pedro Joe Vanessa and myself like
39:06 I think we're making these movies is all
39:08 like a return to childhood and playing make believe.
39:10 I think you got to really just jump in you know head first into this
39:15 beautiful land of makebelieve and and I don't know how else
39:19 to do it.
39:19 And then it it is like, you know,
39:21 you got to pretend that there's Galactis and he's really big, you know.
39:27 Uh um and so you just kind of have this collective pact of let's play.
39:34 Uh Andy Circus was early on after I um decided to do the part,
39:41 I got in touch with him and he was so generous.
39:46 Both he and Mark Ruffalo, they were really I mean it was like I was
39:48 entering into this like small club of of of capture
39:52 performers and they both were very strong about
39:56 saying you know this is not really different than
39:58 the than the other stuff and you're really just trying
40:01 as much to be there with your people as possible
40:04 and I was there every day and I was
40:08 there's versions of making a movie like that where you
40:11 can you just go into the little black box
40:14 and do all your capture stuff and I know sometimes
40:16 people do it like that and uh I was so
40:20 grateful to be there and have that experience and also
40:22 was like really cool because I'm I'm in my like my suit but for um Reed and Sue
40:30 and Johnny you know when they look at the thing
40:34 they see Ben Grim and so I think it was they knew the guy.
40:38 Yeah.
40:38 And so when they're looking at me they're seeing
40:40 they're seeing Eban and I I think that that was
40:43 helpful for for everybody.
40:44 I felt badly for you guys.
40:46 The press tours for those things are are insane.
40:49 They're weird.
40:49 They're insane.
40:50 I actually spoke to you,
40:51 one of the first times I spoke to you
40:52 was at ComicCon when they they dragged you guys out.
40:55 You had just started filming like or like we're in rehearsal in San Diego.
40:59 Yeah.
40:59 Oh, we hadn't even shot yet.
41:00 We had we haven't even filmed a thing and we
41:02 were announcing it was it was a very strange experience.
41:04 I I say this with love.
41:05 You guys looked like The Walking Dead on that press line.
41:07 You were like, "Where am I?
41:09 How are we do?" No, no, no.
41:11 We literally flew in landed that morning,
41:15 did the thing, and then flew back to London.
41:17 And it was a deeply confusing I mean,
41:20 the way that we were all trying to massage it and make it feel better was like,
41:26 oh, this is a bonding ex, you know,
41:27 like we're going up into we're going into up into the sky together.
41:31 And
41:32 but man, oh man, was that that was hard.
41:34 And that's also just feels so um like
41:36 a really tempting fate to go to like a crowd
41:39 of 100,000 people and like high five people
41:42 and it's like we haven't even done the thing.
41:43 It's like
41:44 there is also I don't know how plugged into like social media but there's like
41:47 this like now infamous video of you I think all four of you and it's like you
41:50 especially and Joe during the junket where like
41:54 Joe is like I think just like checked it like he's just like I think half
41:57 asleep because you guys probably done 300 interviews that
41:59 during the after we made the movie.
42:01 Yeah.
42:01 Do you know that that that video that's gone around?
42:03 There's a few.
42:04 I think there's a few really.
42:05 There's one where Joe makes me laugh like crazy.
42:08 Uh uh yeah, there was another one where they
42:13 said I was in Australia and they were like,
42:15 "Okay, here's this there's a room of influencers." And I like walked in.
42:19 It was like the w I felt like I walked into the Wizard of Oz, man.
42:23 People were like dancing around.
42:24 I was like, "Wow." I mean, it's just it's it is very um
42:27 it's a lot.
42:28 Yeah, it's a lot.
42:29 How was Doomsday?
42:30 Was it a much different kind of experience for you?
42:32 Um, Doomsday was different in that it's it's a bigger movie
42:39 with more moving parts and I think it was more compartmentalized
42:43 whereas like Fantastic 4 first steps like oh
42:45 we were there like every every day every day having a sense of the the thing
42:48 and these these movies are so interstellar and so
42:52 galactic and conceptual so it's very hard sometimes
42:54 to understand what's going on in the story
42:58 and and Doomsday was a little bit harder for me to hold all the the parts in.
43:04 I mean, I knew where I was.
43:05 I knew which planet which universe I was in, but how it was connecting
43:12 to other universes is I would have to go back to like Joe,
43:15 can you just I know you've talked me through.
43:16 Can you just tell me one more time?
43:18 Like
43:18 it's not I mean I talked to all
43:19 your co-stars in all these films and it's not unusual.
43:21 You just kind of have to trust I mean
43:23 those guys somehow know how to cobble it all together.
43:26 Like you probably I would guess never even read the full
43:29 Did you read like a full script at any point or uh Yeah.
43:32 Oh, you did?
43:33 Yeah, I did read a full script, but those scripts change quite a bit.
43:35 Right.
43:35 Right.
43:36 Right.
43:38 Yeah.
43:38 Um No, you know what?
43:40 Probably not.
43:41 It probably didn't have a full like third act, right?
43:44 I don't think it had an ending.
43:45 I don't think anyone gots to see that stuff.
43:48 Uh and I I don't I'm not trying to get spoilers or anything,
43:50 but I'm just curious.
43:50 Did you get to see Downey do his do his thing because Yeah.
43:53 Oh, yeah.
43:54 Yeah.
43:55 Pretty cool.
43:55 Yeah.
43:56 Great.
43:57 Yeah.
43:58 Uh and what a just what like a wonderful man.
44:02 Like what a great set leader he was.
44:03 Like he was just it was like you know he he's been doing this for a long
44:06 time and he was so generous and really
44:08 like checking in making sure everyone was good.
44:10 Like it was just like
44:12 yeah really really good uh good kind of co coach energy there.
44:18 They're very overwhelming.
44:19 these movies very and you look around I
44:20 would look around the room and I'd be like
44:23 there's Ian Mckllen and there's like then there's like Channing Tatum and then
44:28 this it's just it's just a it's it's a lot you know
44:33 so we now know officially segueing back to Gary and the Bear the Bear we kind
44:37 of knew this but it's the final season coming very soon um how are you at saying
44:42 goodbye to long-term jobs this is obviously
44:45 a one that has meant a very significant amount
44:48 to you in terms of career and personal life
44:50 and who you are as an actor and person.
44:52 Um, was it tough to say goodbye?
44:54 Do you feel like you've said goodbye yet?
44:58 Um, well, I ended my last day on The Bear.
45:05 They were kind enough to to shoot me out early so that I could do this play.
45:09 So, I missed the first two weeks of rehearsal
45:11 for Dog Day Afternoon because I was working on The Bear.
45:13 And so, I was filled with anxiety about my new job.
45:17 Um, but then I had a certain I was trying
45:20 to learn lines and some point I said, "You know what?
45:22 I can't do this.
45:22 I just got to be here for the bear." And the last
45:28 scene I saw on the bear was very um cathartic in a way.
45:34 I feel like endings are really hard.
45:37 I've gotten better at them because I've had to do it
45:39 a lot and fallen in love with the cast and made little families.
45:42 This family is unique.
45:44 I mean, I really really these people are very important
45:47 to me and we all went on this wild journey together.
45:50 Um, well transformed all of your lives.
45:53 Yeah.
45:53 Like um and we all care so deeply about uh
45:57 the story and the people that were playing and this um
46:02 but yeah, you know, we I got wrapped out and clapped out
46:04 and I got to hug everybody and cry my tears and thank everyone.
46:09 And so and so I felt like what's the worst is like you
46:12 you go and you think you're coming back and you don't get back,
46:15 you know, and you're just sort of filled with regret.
46:17 And then I and then I had and then the very next day I was in rehearsal.
46:20 So um which is nice to not sort of go home and and get the blues.
46:26 But I think that I've done what I've wanted to do in the bear more,
46:30 you know, more than I would could have ever imagined.
46:33 And I'm really excited about the fifth season.
46:35 And I think it's a very um it takes from all
46:41 the other seasons in in in in the best way.
46:44 And again, endings are really hard.
46:45 And I think uh I'm very optimistic about how this show ends.
46:50 I think it ends in a in a in a in a good way, in a real way.
46:55 I know people always want to bring up certain episodes and Forks
46:57 always comes up which ironically you always talk about because you
47:00 do love the collaborative nature of the show and that wasn't necessarily
47:03 episode where you got to like mix it up with the gang.
47:06 Um were you I mean obviously that script must have read
47:09 as a great opportunity and a great script like were you shocked by like
47:12 the things that resonated like who knew that the p the power of like
47:16 a 40some guy singing Taylor Swift alone in a car was so potent.
47:22 I guess Christopher Christo Storz and Joanna Calanu.
47:26 Um I sure didn't.
47:27 I mean I've seen that episode once.
47:31 It's way too much of me for me to really like you know
47:34 I and I saw it at you know at the I saw it
47:38 in the editing office kind of like watched it like this and you know
47:44 the editor everyone was really excited about
47:46 it and I thought they were all crazy.
47:48 Um, but I know definitely I mean I've talked about that episode with Yeah.
47:54 probably thousands of people and it's I don't know I feel so I mean
47:59 I said this many times like you know I'm just like the forward facing part.
48:02 I didn't write it.
48:02 I didn't direct it.
48:03 You know you know what I mean?
48:04 I lived it out.
48:05 No, I mean I'm and I'm proud of my work in it.
48:07 And again, it's like I said when earlier like talking about joy,
48:10 you know, rarely do we get to see joy, especially in like middle-aged men.
48:16 Yeah.
48:17 Too, you know, it's not something that I
48:19 think culture puts a lot of like value in.
48:22 And also it's not great for storytelling so much because you know it's
48:28 like you don't it's kind of anti-dramatic in a in a way you
48:33 know but I think it's really important to see people have victories
48:39 and to celebrate and to change and to experience things and to have light
48:44 and to have their hearts swell and to experience optimism and feel the sun
48:47 on their face and I think it's inspiring and I can tell you
48:50 without a doubt like it is inspired like thousands of people around the world
48:54 that I've gotten to and and I I didn't think that that was possible.
48:57 So, it definitely like changed me.
49:01 Yeah.
49:00 I was too s I was way too cynical to anticipate anything like that.
49:04 But, um I mean I'm so yeah,
49:08 humbled and grateful that I got to be a a part of that thing.
49:11 It's a it's like a really eyeopening Oh, it's it's an alltimer.
49:15 It's it's amazing.
49:16 I you know I mean I'm not dying to watch it again or anything.
49:19 We're going to watch it right now.
49:21 Okay.
49:22 Great.
49:22 We can we can we can sing lock the doors to this room.
49:26 Um I had Jeremy on on the podcast.
49:28 He's amazing.
49:30 Of course.
49:30 And it's funny he he talked about something that like I when
49:32 I was researching you that you've kind of spoken about too like
49:37 how early in his career he thought like he had to kind of suffer for his art
49:41 a bit and he's kind of come around to realize
49:43 like it's kind of it's not a unique thing.
49:46 I think many young actors feel like you kind of have
49:48 to like you feel it and just like be miserable.
49:51 Is it safe to say like that you kind of went through that similar kind of phase
49:54 and you're in a different place now where it's
49:56 okay to be chill and not not injure yourself?
50:01 Yeah.
50:02 I mean, acting is a weird job and you're sort
50:04 of uh like I think sometimes can people can feel conflicted
50:12 about it being a real job and maybe you feel like
50:14 you have to suffer to make it worthy in a way.
50:17 Uh you got to punch your you know card and really like hang in there.
50:20 I definitely, you know,
50:24 was trying to hold myself up to like Marlon Brando and James Dean,
50:27 you know, they know, you know,
50:28 there's all there's so much romanticism around these kinds of experiences.
50:34 And my first movie that I did was with Gene Wilder.
50:41 And I remember him telling me and we were talking
50:44 about different ways of acting and people staying in character.
50:48 And he said, you know, it's incredible for someone to go and stay in character
50:53 for the whole day and and be and live
50:56 that out and really be that person and transform
50:58 into that person and live as that person through this and everything.
51:00 He said, "What's more incredible is to do
51:02 that and then to go home to your family
51:04 and be like a dad and a husband or a friend." And that really stayed with me.
51:10 Although I was I was not I mean I was too I
51:12 wasn't a dad or a husband at that point, but I mean
51:15 I I I think that's I think that's I think that's pretty cool.
51:18 I think that you know um and doing this play now.
51:24 I mean I've done I don't know how many I think I've done 60 or so of them.
51:27 I got another hundred or performances to do.
51:33 Life is what feeds the performance.
51:35 And if you're just living in the thing,
51:37 you know, it's it's really not getting much back.
51:41 You don't have much to draw from if
51:42 you're just sort of staying in this character the whole I mean
51:46 I or staying in the play.
51:47 I for me I'm like I want to be out.
51:49 I want to experience things.
51:51 I want to read the news.
51:52 I want to see what people are h I want to be
51:54 involved in the world and out in my community and and yeah
51:59 and and what's happening and I think that's the only way
52:02 for an artist to be I also think it's really funny
52:05 this quote I don't know who said it I think it was
52:07 maybe Robert Patson but he said how come whenever anyone's always like
52:11 staying in character for like months at a time why is
52:14 that character always said[ __][ __] can't be a nice guy you know
52:19 yeah can't it be like Willy Wonka Well, you'd be committed.
52:24 I mean, if you walked into a coffee shop and said chocolate for everybody,
52:27 but I I thought it was a very illustrative kind of, you know,
52:30 he was he put a good romantization of of suffering and, you know, um and
52:37 I mean, I got a lot of thoughts about it.
52:38 I also think that like to perform whether it be in a musical
52:44 arena or in a in a in a sports or you know,
52:46 I you know, I'm not the only relaxation is very very important.
52:51 Yes.
52:51 And if you're trying to like squeeze some kind of thing,
52:55 some experience that you're trying to like really like you're not open
52:59 and and it's it's it's I've tried to do it many times.
53:02 That is a hard hill to climb.
53:05 So it's funny you mentioned one of your earliest co-stars,
53:08 probably the first star you worked with, great Jean Wilder.
53:11 Yeah.
53:10 When you look at Jeremy Allen White, do you see what the internet sees?
53:15 I I mean I see a lot of I mean there's a lot of kindness in both those women.
53:20 Those those guys have some beautiful hearts and Jeremy does
53:22 have a serious set of eyes on him for sure.
53:25 You know, get lost in those.
53:27 Yeah, that's the real trick.
53:28 Yeah.
53:28 Yeah.
53:30 He's such a If I can just take one second just to extol like he is
53:35 such an amazing scene partner and I've told him this before,
53:37 but it was it is like you go
53:40 in to work with him and it's just there's no pretention.
53:43 And it's just he's right in there and then it's just he just lifts you
53:46 up and you just kind of get sucked
53:48 into the airirstream of of of his performance.
53:51 He's just like t really s takes care of of of you as an actor.
53:56 And I don't know if he's doing it on purpose,
53:58 but it's sure but it's sure appreciated, you know.
54:00 No, he's all he's awesome.
54:01 He his hot pizza take he gave me was
54:04 um he's not he's not into the Chicago deep dish,
54:07 which uh is controversial given where you guys have shot.
54:10 You know what, man?
54:11 There's a lot of Chicagoans that don't like the deep dish.
54:14 Where where are you at?
54:16 No, that that ain't for me.
54:17 Um I like uh in Chicago I like a tavern style where it's
54:21 like really thin and they they do it so you get little squares, right?
54:24 Like they chop it up like it's a kids party and I I like that
54:28 because it's a little daintier.
54:30 It's a little daintier.
54:32 Um Okay.
54:33 But no, I'm not much of a a deep dish guy.
54:36 Same too much.
54:36 The bread ratio is all off for me.
54:38 You want the Yeah.
54:40 I mean, you know, I had I mean,
54:42 I I would my birthday's in March and so I would often I have
54:46 my birthday in Chicago when we were shooting and there was one particularly sad,
54:51 rainy, snowy Chicago day where I found myself in the basement of a deep
54:55 dish place drinking beer by myself and eating deep dish for one.
55:01 It's a glamorous life of a movie star.
55:03 TV star.
55:05 Yeah.
55:05 Um, before I let you go, I realize we haven't even mentioned girls.
55:07 I just want to mention it because I mean it
55:09 the staying power of that one obviously is is remarkable as well.
55:12 Lena just had her memoir out really.
55:15 Um have you read it?
55:16 I haven't read it.
55:16 I mean I've seen her do some amazing interviews about
55:18 it but it seems and she's obviously such a talent.
55:23 Um I mean you you one of the talents like one
55:24 of the challenges for an actor is jumping into something mid-stream.
55:28 You jumped into that show third season as I recall.
55:30 Right.
55:31 Like I think so.
55:32 I think so.
55:32 Yeah.
55:32 Was it is that is that a particular challenge that I
55:36 mean you had been doing it for a while by then,
55:38 but like is there security in knowing oh they know what they're doing here or is
55:41 there a challenge in like how am I
55:43 going to fit into this thing that's already working?
55:46 Well, I was just involved in like uh I had met Lena and Jenny and we were
55:51 pals and we h we would have a lot
55:53 of fun together and laugh together and cook together
55:55 and and they kind of wrote this part for me but but it was never written as like
55:59 okay you're going to be here for the rest
56:01 of you're now a new member of the cast.
56:03 It was a it was he was supposed to be in like a couple of episodes and then
56:06 we we just started having so much fun that they
56:08 just it just kept extending and extending and extending.
56:11 Got it.
56:11 Uh, and that and that was a collaborative for me anyways.
56:15 That was very much a collaborative set the same way that the the bear was.
56:19 I felt very much like the three of us uh uh created
56:26 that character together and they gave me a lot of trust
56:29 and and we we wrote together to some extent and it
56:33 was um yeah that was just a lot of fun.
56:38 Did that character affect how people
56:41 received you in the world, particularly women,
56:42 like did they I mean they people can
56:45 separate a hope character from human being, but I don't know.
56:48 I find like when I'm in something that's on TV right now, right?
56:52 Then like then it's like oh then there's like Desi, you know, you know,
56:56 but then then it's then it's like something else is on TV and it's like,
57:01 you know, short-term memory.
57:04 All right, we're going to end with this.
57:05 Okay.
57:06 Okay.
57:06 Profoundly random questions.
57:07 Since we end every happy sad confus like this.
57:10 Are you a dog or cat person?
57:12 I'm a I'm a cat dad.
57:13 Yeah.
57:13 Or you're a cat.
57:14 You're you're softening me up for the hard hitters.
57:16 I can tell.
57:17 No, that's I mean that one almost got
57:18 Jesse Buckley canceled when she went off against cats.
57:21 Oh, really?
57:22 So that is deceptively a challenging one.
57:24 I also don't subscribe to these kind of binaries.
57:27 Like I like dogs.
57:28 I love dogs and cats, you know, but but right now I Yeah, I'm love cats here.
57:36 What do you collect?
57:38 Um, bicycles, guitars.
57:44 Okay.
57:43 Um, old like uh Christian Dior button-down shirts from the 80s and 90s.
57:51 Okay.
57:52 Yeah.
57:51 All right.
57:52 Do you have a favorite video game of all time?
57:58 Um, what's it called?
57:58 Um, LoadRunner.
58:02 Oh my god.
58:02 I haven't thought of this is like going back to like like Atari app 2.
58:09 I liked California games.
58:13 Yeah.
58:12 You know, but I didn't really have I uh my parents relented
58:16 and I got like the original Game Boy and I liked Castlevania.
58:20 Yep.
58:20 Yeah.
58:20 We're about the same age, so same reference points.
58:22 Yeah.
58:22 Yeah.
58:23 Unfortunately, we went my parents got me the Sega Master System,
58:25 which sent me down the wrong path.
58:27 I was never a Nintendo person.
58:29 So, what was So, what were you like?
58:31 It was like Tommy Lorta baseball was like my game.
58:36 Okay.
58:36 Sonic, you know, but it was it's a lonely path.
58:38 It was a lonely path.
58:39 Here I am now.
58:41 Yeah.
58:40 Uh the Dakota Johnson memorial question.
58:42 She asked me this.
58:43 I ask everybody.
58:45 Okay.
58:44 Would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one bee in your butt?
58:49 Oh.
58:49 Um I'll take the the bee in the fizzle.
58:53 I don't know.
58:54 It sounds like it could be, you know, might get something out of it.
58:57 Change your mind.
58:57 Yeah.
58:58 Change your life.
58:58 Yeah, that is generally the sentiment.
59:01 Is that the sentiment?
59:02 90%.
59:03 So, who goes for the beef mouth full of bees?
59:05 I can't recall.
59:05 No one I would want to mention out loud because they're psychopaths.
59:08 Who wants one?
59:09 That is That's a good question.
59:11 It's like two kinds of people kind of question.
59:14 Yeah.
59:14 Short-term whatever versus I mean that that's going to[ __] you up.
59:17 That gives me candyman flashbacks.
59:19 Yes.
59:19 Yeah.
59:19 Yeah.
59:19 Totally.
59:20 Totally.
59:21 What's the wallpaper on your phone?
59:25 My kids.
59:25 I would hope so.
59:26 Just checking.
59:27 Just making sure.
59:27 It's my kids on the on the lock screen
59:29 and then as soon as I open it up it's Elena, my wife, my partner.
59:34 You're a good person.
59:35 Last actor you were mistaken for.
59:40 Um, somebody was picking my daughter up
59:44 from soccer practice and she was with her friends.
59:47 This guy came out.
59:48 He's like, "Oh, I'm such a big fan.
59:50 Such a big fan, man." He's like, "I love your show.
59:54 Uh, I watch it all the time.
59:55 I love the one where you were at uh
59:59 I don't know he's named some pizza place and I
1:00:00 was like I don't think you think and he
1:00:02 thought I was this guy who's like a pizza influencer.
1:00:07 Oh I don't know you know I don't know I can't remember the guy's name
1:00:10 Dave Portoi.
1:00:13 Yeah yeah Dave Portoy.
1:00:14 You don't want to be confused with Dave Port.
1:00:16 Well I'm being honest man.
1:00:17 I'm giving you the straight dope.
1:00:18 I don't I don't you know.
1:00:20 Yeah I I mean I guess I see it but Yeah.
1:00:22 No.
1:00:22 Okay.
1:00:23 All right.
1:00:24 Moving on.
1:00:25 What's the worst note a director has ever given you?
1:00:28 If I get a sense that a director is coming in with some
1:00:30 bad stuff and it's a director that I don't um really respect,
1:00:33 I just pretend that I I I pretend to just take
1:00:36 the hearing aids out and I just say, "Uh-huh." Oh, yeah.
1:00:39 Totally.
1:00:39 Totally.
1:00:39 And then I just keep doing what I want to do.
1:00:41 Yeah.
1:00:41 No, I've heard that one, too.
1:00:42 Yeah.
1:00:42 Totally.
1:00:44 Uh and finally, in the spirit of happy, sad,
1:00:46 confused, who's an actor who always makes you happy.
1:00:48 You see them on screen.
1:00:49 Better mood.
1:00:52 Patricia Arquette.
1:00:53 Great.
1:00:54 Yeah.
1:00:54 All the way back what true romance to, you know, horror like
1:00:59 I mean I wasn't a big medium fan, but uh but man oh man, she can do no wrong.
1:01:05 My lord, she's the best we have.
1:01:07 Yeah.
1:01:08 Movie that makes you sad.
1:01:11 Um Stand by Me.
1:01:15 Yeah.
1:01:17 Yeah.
1:01:16 Yeah.
1:01:17 And a food that makes you confused.
1:01:18 You don't get it.
1:01:22 I struggle with fine dining.
1:01:26 You can say that now that the bear's over.
1:01:27 Now you're safe.
1:01:29 Yeah.
1:01:29 I mean, I don't know.
1:01:30 We'll see.
1:01:31 Maybe everything was go did okay and then he just
1:01:35 What a way to get cancelceled for not liking fine dining.
1:01:37 I don't know.
1:01:38 I just can't sit at a restaurant that long.
1:01:41 Really?
1:01:41 It's just a p like you just want to Yeah.
1:01:43 I just like to, you know, got places to be.
1:01:48 No, no, no.
1:01:49 I'm not in a rush.
1:01:50 just like to have fun, you know?
1:01:51 Right.
1:01:52 Okay, fair enough.
1:01:53 No fine dining for Eban.
1:01:54 Um, thank you, man, for making the time for this.
1:01:57 I appreciate you.
1:01:58 Congratulations.
1:01:59 Everybody check out.
1:01:59 So, it sounds like what?
1:02:00 100 plus performances still to go on on Dog Day.
1:02:03 Something like that.
1:02:03 All right.
1:02:04 Good luck.
1:02:04 I've been told that I shouldn't think about the amount of shows.
1:02:07 I should just think about the amount of weeks.
1:02:09 Okay.
1:02:09 Yeah, that's like eight weeks.
1:02:11 We got like 10 weeks or something like that.
1:02:13 Since you got this, I could do it on one foot.
1:02:16 Try that out.
1:02:17 See what happens.
1:02:18 Good luck with that.
1:02:18 Yeah.
1:02:19 Um, everybody should check that out if they can.
1:02:21 Gary, of course, is out now and the final
1:02:22 season of the bear and we got Avengers movies.
1:02:25 You're you're a busy man.
1:02:26 Oh, I know what food is confusing to me.
1:02:29 The tuna melt.
1:02:30 Oh, I'm not into that.
1:02:32 No.
1:02:33 People love it, man.
1:02:34 And I I respect, you know, everyone's.
1:02:37 It's a matter of taste, but I It's a real head scratcher for me.
1:02:40 Is it What about just like the tuna fish on its own?
1:02:43 like or I I'm not going to get into the weeds with you,
1:02:46 but it just seems like a strange thing to do to put some
1:02:48 tuna on a piece and then just melt a bunch of cheese on it.
1:02:52 Yeah.
1:02:53 Yeah.
1:02:52 Thank you for saving the best for last.
1:02:54 Yeah.
1:02:54 Oh god.
1:02:55 By the hair of my chinny chin chune.
1:02:57 Going to go watch forks and eat tuna melts together now.
1:03:00 Is that okay?
1:03:00 Yeah.
1:03:01 Right now.
1:03:02 Lock the doors.
1:03:03 Thanks, man.
1:03:03 I appreciate you.
1:03:04 Yeah, thanks.
1:03:04 Thanks so much.
1:03:07 And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused.
1:03:10 Remember to review, rate,
1:03:12 and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts.
1:03:15 I'm a big podcast person.
1:03:17 I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pushed to do this by Josh.