'What drama!': Arsenal inch close to Premier League title | The 2 Robbies Podcast | NBC Sports

0:00 There was only one place to start.

0:02 It was the biggest game of the weekend in that consequences

0:06 at both ends of the tables for both teams involved.

0:09 London Stadium, West Ham United Arsenal.

0:13 Where do you want to begin?

0:14 Well, I think there's three parts There's four parts to this.

0:16 Okay.

0:16 All right.

0:17 And we can do them in order.

0:18 The subs.

0:20 Yeah.

0:20 The save.

0:21 The goal.

0:22 The VAR.

0:24 Okay.

0:25 The subs because Start on the subs.

0:26 Yeah, I mean got a got a bit of headlines.

0:29 It did.

0:29 I mean Arsenal started the game pretty well.

0:31 Everything was in control.

0:32 I think it was the 24th minute, wasn't it?

0:34 Ben White goes down.

0:35 He picked the same team, didn't he?

0:36 Just on that basis, man.

0:37 It was the same team that played at Fulham.

0:38 Yeah.

0:39 And the advantage of that was Marquinhos and Scali

0:42 In midfield.

0:43 Kiwior back in the side.

0:44 Yeah.

0:45 Uh Esra playing in midfield.

0:46 So the whole kind of vibe that was going really well the last couple of games.

0:49 Why would you mess it up?

0:50 Yeah.

0:51 But things changed with the Ben White injury.

0:54 Um we did see Arteta with Gabriel Heinze

0:56 and his assistant just chatting about what they should do.

0:59 Yeah.

1:00 Ben White is White's to come off.

1:02 What who's there?

1:03 Yeah.

1:03 I mean the the natural thing I think we Well,

1:05 I certainly thought was Well, Christian Mosquera.

1:07 He's the cover up right back.

1:08 He's played there absolutely fine.

1:11 He would come on.

1:11 But that would didn't happen, right?

1:13 No.

1:13 Martin Zubimendi came on.

1:16 Mhm.

1:15 Uh which meant Declan Rice played at right back.

1:17 And from that moment for the rest of the first half,

1:20 am I right in saying like Arsenal never really got their rhythm.

1:23 I think there was a stat or something that Arsenal had seven shots or something.

1:26 shots Nine shots when he was in midfield

1:29 and one One shot when he'd moved to right back.

1:32 Which kind of tells its own story.

1:34 I mean, after the break, Arteta made changes to that.

1:39 minutes.

1:38 And he admitted basically he made a change.

1:40 Mosquera did come on at half time.

1:42 Yeah.

1:43 So he didn't like what was seeing for the last 20 minutes.

1:45 Yeah.

1:45 And he basically said, you know what?

1:46 I made a mistake.

1:47 Kiwior off, didn't he?

1:48 As a As a tactic, not nothing to do with injury.

1:51 And put Lewis Scali at left back.

1:54 Rice goes back in midfield and Mosquera comes on at right back.

1:57 So, with that one injury there's so much change to

2:00 Three play three almost like three changes in your team.

2:03 And we'll get on to the other things happened in the game,

2:05 but that was such an important moment.

2:07 And as Arsenal continued, we're thinking in the studio, "Wow,

2:10 you kind of you made a bit of a mistake there,

2:12 but he's he's he's attempted to fix it." Different changes

2:15 and lots of different kind of people in different spots.

2:18 Mhm.

2:19 And if he didn't get the three points, that decision Yeah.

2:23 would have been blown up Correct.

2:25 in the media and people question People

2:27 would have been watching, yeah, ready to go.

2:29 Yeah.

2:29 Yeah, Bot leaning and blowing it and all that would have been the headlines.

2:33 The save.

2:34 Let me Let me just Let me just go back Let me just go back to the sub.

2:36 Yeah.

2:37 For you know, in a game, I don't know what's going through Mikel Arteta's head.

2:41 And I'm trying to put myself in the situation.

2:43 Like, why would he put Declan Rice there till half time,

2:47 then make the change at half time?

2:49 Cuz we saw both Zubimendi and Muscala warming up.

2:52 There was a shot of both warming up.

2:53 So, he had the option.

2:55 And then he decides to put Rice at right

2:57 and cons?

2:58 Let's go through the pros and cons.

2:58 Well, more than anything for me, Rob,

3:01 it I felt that Mikel Arteta decided "I want

3:05 to get to half time with somebody I trust,

3:10 and then I'll fix the problem when I've got my 15 minutes.

3:13 I think he looked at Muscala against possibly Summerville,

3:15 who was the lively player for West Ham, looked their their biggest danger,

3:19 and probably went, "I'm not sure if I can trust him

3:21 right now to go in and and jump straight into the game.

3:25 Let me get Declan in there.

3:26 Let me get to half time, and then I'll I'll I'll I'll I'll think it through.

3:30 We'll talk it through, and we'll make the change." I'm surprised you say that.

3:35 He's paid to make decisions instantly.

3:37 Correct.

3:37 He's got to have a plan for all scenarios that might happen,

3:40 and know who he's got to replace.

3:42 Correct.

3:42 They thought it through, which is fine, but I don't I mean,

3:46 I would push back on let's do this for now and figure out at half time.

3:50 Why?

3:51 Well, that's like wasting time.

3:54 He's wasting subs.

3:55 No, it it is but what if what if Mascara comes on and he's not defender.

3:59 But he's not up to the speed of the game.

4:01 He he's not at at that at at that speed.

4:03 at the speed of the game he comes up against.

4:04 But he's played there before.

4:06 He's more likely to be able to defend Somerville than Rice.

4:10 Do you think on 1 v 1?

4:11 I'm not convinced now.

4:12 defender.

4:13 I get that and I'm I'm I'm sure that's the easy option.

4:16 But why what what else what else do you think's going through his mind then?

4:19 Well, what I thought was what's going through

4:21 his mind we either have Mascara who's a safer defensive

4:23 um play or we'd be more progressive with our football

4:27 and put Declan Rice at right back, right?

4:29 Who can play more but we lose him

4:32 in midfield which you've got to think about that.

4:33 So, it was a decision And he he can't he's a he's

4:36 a latter defender against Somerville who was a problem.

4:39 Somerville was their biggest problem.

4:41 Yeah.

4:41 So, I I just thought he'd have gone for Mascara there.

4:44 And for him to if you're right to sort

4:46 of let's just stick with this and then figure it out.

4:49 I mean, it all works out Robin and we

4:50 would debate it and everybody would debate it.

4:52 And he'll have his own reasons whether we'll ever find

4:55 out whether he he he speaks to that or not.

4:57 that he brought him on let's figure it out at half time.

5:00 Well, I mean, he's got subs to be able to do

5:02 that but and you bring player on and you bring it back out again.

5:06 Well, Zubimendi stayed on for 40 minutes didn't he

5:08 till 60 odd minutes and then he then he changed

5:10 him out when he brought Odegaard in and and Havertz

5:12 on and then he he took him off again.

5:15 Which I mean, it was uh I mean, lot of switching around though.

5:18 That's a lot of switching around.

5:20 It was.

5:20 player that that got injured had to come out.

5:23 Now, who knows if Mascara's done in who knows whether it it worked or not.

5:26 And Rice would have continued in midfield.

5:28 You'd have still had Calafiori at left back.

5:29 You'd still have had Luis Kelly in midfield.

5:31 I mean, it it's less effective.

5:33 So, I was surprised at the decision.

5:35 I was surprised but I'm trying to think why he did it.

5:37 And and I'm trying to think I think he has such belief and trust in Declan

5:41 Rice it was almost like I can put Declan there and I don't have to worry.

5:45 Yeah, but yeah.

5:46 And he and he took it from other parts of the team.

5:48 it away from the midfield that was doing so well.

5:50 shut Listen, he changed it up.

5:52 He he got the win and

5:53 But Calafiori, Robin, that first 10-15 minutes got in on goal one time.

5:57 Flying down the side, yeah.

5:58 difficult to pick up because it's not really anybody's job, really.

6:02 The right winger or the right wing-back's not

6:03 going to follow him all the way across there.

6:04 And he looked the most likely to score in the first 10-15 minutes.

6:07 So, that that was a big Yeah, the substitute

6:09 moment in the game.

6:10 Um And then it got the second half of West Ham.

6:13 Fair play to West Ham United, Robin.

6:14 I mean, they had a I mean, they did a pretty good job throughout.

6:17 Really solid and safe in the first 15-20 minutes.

6:20 And as the game wore on, they had Arsenal rattled, I'd say, in the second half.

6:24 When you look back, it's like it's so much like crazy stuff when you look back.

6:28 Why didn't West Ham turn that around

6:30 and use those changes and start to progress?

6:33 And the save, the save of the season, the save of his career,

6:41 the save of Mikel Arteta's life

6:44 as a manager was David Raya and Mateus Fernandes.

6:49 Mhm.

6:50 Fernandes plays a brilliant one, too.

6:51 Yeah.

6:52 He's a good player.

6:52 He's a good player, by the way.

6:53 He's a good player, by the way.

6:54 a whole goal to aim at, and David Raya's professionalism, his focus,

7:00 and if you watched him I like the angle from behind the goal Yeah.

7:02 where he's He sets, doesn't he?

7:04 Yeah, he sets and then he

7:05 gauges his weight forward and he quickly

7:07 spreads himself right at the last second, doesn't commit himself early,

7:10 and makes the biggest save I think we've seen in the season

7:13 and maybe for many seasons for Arsenal and what it meant

7:16 what it meant, in terms of that of of Arsenal going 1-0 down at that stage,

7:21 Rob, I don't think that I I I know there was enough time.

7:23 I don't think they come back in the game.

7:26 minute.

7:26 think they come I think it it demoralized them.

7:28 They might have got you, maybe the set piece or whatever,

7:31 but I'm telling you what, that would have took a lot away from Arsenal.

7:34 They weren't on top of the game at that point.

7:36 He's broke through, I'm saying.

7:38 And I mean, he he would have been my underappreciated from the come.

7:41 Probably he he he's he's gone already.

7:43 I say team clean sheet, he's already won the golden glove.

7:46 Yeah, he's got it.

7:46 Brilliant.

7:47 Should be in the running for player of the season.

7:49 Absolutely.

7:49 Won't be because I don't know he's not star

7:51 or he doesn't get the headlines and all that goalkeepers.

7:54 But I'm telling you that is as big

7:56 a bigger moment for Arsenal as the the down men

7:59 that we saw and the late goals that it

8:01 plays you like Newcastle and all those moments we said,

8:03 "Wow, this is defining." That was was incredible, mate.

8:08 Incredible.

8:09 And what about the other side of it?

8:10 If you're a West Ham yeah.

8:12 There's your moment in it.

8:13 That's what you worked for.

8:14 Rob, to go above back above Tottenham Hotspur with the advantage

8:18 again going forward if you can hang on with three points.

8:21 I mean even a point helps them out in terms

8:23 of running now at the end of the season.

8:25 But that moment, I just in the studio time stood still.

8:29 Yeah.

8:29 When he went Yeah, yeah, yeah.

8:31 That was oh, oh, oh, here we go, yeah.

8:33 He's got the whole goal.

8:34 And he's he's he's tried to beat like a little bit with the eyes.

8:37 Not going to the big side of goal that's open.

8:39 He's tried to whip it in the near and goalkeepers kind of waited,

8:42 waited, waited and then Yeah.

8:44 brilliant, brilliant.

8:45 I mean it's just brilliant TV and great football.

8:48 Odegaard coming onto the field.

8:50 Yeah.

8:50 As we get close to the next part here of the goal.

8:52 Mhm.

8:52 Um you know a little bit maligned Martin Odegaard.

8:58 Um he's had good moments, he's had bad moments, he's had injured moments.

9:00 He's captain of the club etc.

9:02 Um he was heavily involved, wasn't he, in the goal?

9:05 Well, I'm I'm going to actually go straight to it.

9:06 He's my underappreciated performer of the week, Rob.

9:09 Because of the things that you say.

9:11 Yeah.

9:11 Bit of another one splits opinion, bit divisive,

9:15 little bit like, "What does he really do?

9:18 What's his end product?

9:18 Does he give us enough?" I thought today when when Arsenal needed a little

9:24 jolt of confidence in the middle of the park to get on the ball,

9:27 to get turned in quality, play forward,

9:30 and start to I thought he he he took it on himself, Rob, to do that.

9:34 In he passes the ball to you in a way

9:37 that you're going to get it and give it me back.

9:39 So So people start to get enjoy that moment.

9:42 Wasn't a Saka day.

9:43 So he was quiet and maybe tightly marked really really poor.

9:46 Uh Xhaka was was having a fight with the center-back and it was difficult.

9:52 I thought he just came in into the Hazard position,

9:54 Rob, and knitted the game together and gave them a chance.

9:57 And And his run and the setup for Trossard was perfect.

10:00 The little man comes up with a little bit of magic

10:02 that he does every now and then and And there you go.

10:04 If Ødegaard doesn't get on the pitch and bring

10:06 that confidence to the team, not sure they win.

10:09 You know what?

10:09 It's brilliant and and uh you know, Arteta would feel like Reiss Nelson as a Rob

10:14 is more of a goal threat than Ødegaard.

10:16 And he's scored good goals for Arsenal

10:17 and important goals and he's got his brilliant shot.

10:20 And he often is the man, but he made the call today at the right time.

10:23 You know what?

10:24 It might be Ødegaard and I always liked Ødegaard.

10:26 I liked him, Rob, when we went to one of their games when we were pitchside.

10:30 we saw him.

10:30 Where it was 2 or 3 years ago when this team

10:32 was coming together and I'm being live and like, wow.

10:35 Yeah, I'm nervous, aren't we?

10:35 Arsenal looked good and Ødegaard's a brilliant player.

10:38 So I I I get and I enjoy what he does well.

10:41 I also understand when he's been a little quieter and he's been out on the side.

10:44 But that changed again from Arteta that got This is good sub.

10:47 I mean, he's got great options to be fair anyway off the bench.

10:50 Was a big part of Trossard's goal.

10:52 Um I mean, Trossard,

10:54 just a quick line on him before you move on again like I What I like about him,

10:57 I said it in the show right at the end.

10:59 There's something about some players I think that that kind

11:03 of overcome They take the moment a little.

11:06 Yeah.

11:06 Yeah.

11:07 You know, we all know how important it is,

11:08 but he's so often in big games comes up with something that's really important,

11:12 Rob, an assist or a goal or just some involvement.

11:15 He's got I watched him closely today.

11:17 He runs back to help out defensively.

11:19 Yeah, he does.

11:19 Yeah.

11:20 just got himself there.

11:21 He got himself there with the shot.

11:22 It's like deflection and that's a huge goal.

11:23 In terms of raw materials and things

11:25 you You'd Martinelli should be ahead of him.

11:28 He's quicker, probably got more skill,

11:29 can But he's not because of the things you say, Rob.

11:32 him.

11:32 tell you what I loved about him today.

11:33 It was like late on when somebody went down and and and had

11:37 a block and he went and blocked a ball out for throwing.

11:39 He turned around to two or three of his teammates and he he gave it to them Rob.

11:43 Come on, we've got to defend and and like he's a little guy

11:46 but he's he's got a real big heart and fire in his belly.

11:50 Yeah, it's the software.

11:51 You know, it's hard it's hardware.

11:52 Some other people got better hardware.

11:54 He's got good software.

11:55 And the manager trusts him, loves him,

11:56 plays him in a game like this and he come

11:58 up good for for the team and for the manager.

12:00 What's your fourth?

12:00 The fourth is the VAR.

12:03 The VAR.

12:04 Cool.

12:05 Oh gosh.

12:06 By the way, just in terms of like before we get to the actual position.

12:10 Callum Wilson comes on mate,

12:12 has a volley that Gabriel does a brilliant block to go for a corner.

12:16 The ball comes in from the corner,

12:17 there's the incident and then Callum Wilson hits a half volley

12:21 with his left foot that flies into the back of the net.

12:24 The referee gets the the the watch vibrating,

12:27 thinks it's a goal and then we go to VAR and he gives it.

12:30 Should Callum Wilson have come on earlier?

12:31 I think West Ham fans might say, you know what?

12:33 Didn't we when we watching didn't we?

12:34 I said and he and he said I think he's three goals

12:36 in he's he's come off the substitute bench three times and scored.

12:39 This is 80 something minute.

12:40 It's 80 And I'm thinking get him on.

12:42 Casting your eyes on me yeah, but I it's physical, he knows the league,

12:46 he he he's got he's got he's got instincts around the box.

12:50 But anyway, let's let's get to the the big talking point in the game at 1-0.

12:55 I just frack like what do you make of the Arsenal fans

12:58 emotion when the referee points when he thing goes off on his Yeah,

13:02 and he points to the goal, doesn't he?

13:04 I mean Let me [laughter]

13:06 let me also tell you one thing that Mikel Arteta deserves an Oscar.

13:10 Because he went he was on the side

13:13 with the straightest face you've ever seen going like no worries,

13:17 it's a hand he's holding his hand he's

13:19 holding his hand he's holding he's playing it

13:21 so well like David Wright yeah yeah like

13:24 oh he's there's no problem we've got this.

13:27 But there was such a melee there, Rob.

13:28 Yeah.

13:29 We've got used to not like Okay, is there something in there?

13:32 There was so much going on there.

13:33 There might be something that will stop the score being awarded.

13:35 And it was it was Pablo the I mean, there's plenty of people around David Raya.

13:41 David Raya tries to come out.

13:43 It looks like he tries to catch the he's catching a ball, yeah.

13:45 Which which Yeah, what do you think he might punch you?

13:48 But I think the one thing that the the PGMOL have said to us on on private,

13:52 these calls that we have every few months is that if a if

13:56 a if a goalkeeper is impeded from using what he what he's it.

13:59 there to use his arms, holding down or not allowing him to jump,

14:03 or if a goalkeeper is in the air,

14:05 if you nudge him when his feet are off the ground, that's going to be a foul.

14:07 So, they're they're quite hot on this.

14:09 And when we saw it and Pablo's arms across

14:11 his neck a little bit um and then grabs his arm

14:14 his arm to stop him I'm like, that's probably going to be be called out here.

14:18 I mean, David Raya also Oscar Cuz cuz he knew it.

14:23 And then he dived.

14:25 I mean, he dived.

14:25 And then they made Made sure that the referee had seen it.

14:28 Yeah, that's fine.

14:29 there was a holding.

14:30 There was a holding.

14:31 a foul for me, Rob.

14:32 The The arm across his body enough,

14:34 but then when I'm grabbing the the the the other arm to hold down.

14:38 So, you're stopping me the action to use my arms and to catch the ball.

14:42 Yeah.

14:42 I'm a goalkeeper.

14:43 You You're not allowed to do that.

14:44 to say that it's important to say that the PGMOL,

14:45 the head of the referees, did say that to us about the goalkeeper.

14:49 And and maybe there's a discussion for another day whether this whole

14:53 grappling and I'm sure that there's West Ham fans right now.

14:55 I'm sorry.

14:56 I'm so sorry.

14:57 There will be other instances in the league where goalkeepers have

15:00 been held a little bit and be allowed to play on, yeah.

15:04 and the whole brings up the whole argument of VAR.

15:07 Should it be involved?

15:08 humans that do the decisions.

15:09 It's still the referee's call or whatever.

15:12 Um but I I think it's important for us to say, and again,

15:15 I I I I got so many West Ham fans, and I'm so sorry.

15:19 I think it was the right it was the right call.

15:21 But just to But just to to balance that out as well for the West Ham fans,

15:26 there were West Ham fans who would say

15:28 there was some holding by Declan Rice of Mavropanos.

15:31 There was some There was another challenge in front of Trossard,

15:34 was it, or it was it was it was holding somebody.

15:37 So, there was there was three incidents that happened

15:40 in the pen- in that 6-yard box at the same time.

15:43 Now, I think my uh understanding is the goalkeeper's

15:48 position takes almost precedence in that situation cuz if

15:53 he if he's if he's going to be able

15:54 to catch that ball and then nullify other things,

15:57 then you look at those secondary I I think.

16:00 we're into tertiary now, Robert.

16:01 Quite honestly, I ain't quite sure.

16:03 Yeah.

16:04 If if Rice is holding somebody at the same time as that as just the ball

16:09 is going on with Yeah, which is Yeah, closer to to Rice.

16:12 It's almost in his hands, isn't it, as as the Yeah.

16:14 being held down.

16:16 Who'd you argue that had more impact on that 2 seconds of ball Yeah.

16:20 Yeah.

16:21 than the Rice holding?

16:22 I don't know.

16:23 I mean, again, we're into we're into things here like Yeah,

16:27 it's it's it's not quite Yeah, it's not quite totally clear.

16:29 Yeah, which one gets precedence of the other?

16:32 Yeah, so again, it's has got to be painful for West Ham.

16:35 Well, I thought they were excellent really excellent against

16:38 the team that obviously going to try and win the title.

16:41 They had their game plan.

16:42 They had their fittest their probably their best squad.

16:45 I mean, Jurrien Timber Yeah.

16:47 of course is missing at right back and Benrahma off.

16:49 Ben's stacked, aren't they?

16:50 What drama, Rob.

16:52 What drama.

16:52 And and I think we all realized that was going to be the the biggest hurdle for

16:56 like the big hump, doesn't What do you feel like now?

16:58 Yeah, I I said it a couple of times today,

17:00 Rob, and I've been saying it for a few weeks.

17:02 I always felt this game I think if they win this game,

17:05 I think you can see you can see it like

17:07 at home, and Burnley at home has got to be goals, and then Palace away.

17:11 That might be difficult.

17:12 They've got a European European game.

17:14 later.

17:14 I saw Palace today, and we'll talk about them a little

17:16 bit about And they didn't They They're still having a go.

17:18 They're still, you know,

17:19 they're sore and they're motivated and so on and so forth.

17:21 But three days away is different.

17:23 No, half of them won't won't won't be seen.

17:25 And from Arsenal's point of view, again,

17:28 you've got to beat Burnley and you've got to beat Palace away to win a title.

17:31 It's it's it's on you.

17:32 It's on you.

17:33 Yeah.

17:34 But we've been around too long now It's not a given.

17:38 Yeah.

17:38 You can't rule out any possible result.

17:41 I mean, there's there's very few that when they're

17:43 so tight that that there's not a little bit Yeah.

17:45 extra drama in it.

17:47 There was a ton of drama today.

17:48 That was And and to the point, you know, it also has to be said,

17:51 Rob, before, maybe an hour of the game, Arsenal were tight today.

17:55 They were tight.

17:56 It wasn't the Arsenal we've seen in the last couple of weeks.

17:58 It was the tightening up Arsenal that didn't quite

18:01 look like it was the creativity was going to come.

18:04 I think Nuno Espirito Santo uh cheap cheap yeah yeah brilliant wing backs Mhm.

18:08 tight on the wing, stop those guys.

18:10 Three central defenders, extra height for set pieces,

18:13 uh and and make it very tight in midfield as well.

18:15 I just don't think Eze did a good enough job He got his fair man.

18:18 He got his fair man and didn't make it.

18:20 Yeah.

18:20 And they couldn't get it to him enough to to hurt Palace.

18:23 Um And the other thing was the, you know, the the substitutions and stuff.

18:26 I mean, it was uh it was full of drama.

18:29 Full of drama.

18:30 And we'll see.

18:31 Hi there.

18:31 I'm Rebecca Lowe, studio host of NBC's coverage of the Premier League.

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