‘DESERVED CHAMPIONS!’ 🏆 What needs to CHANGE for Real Madrid after losing the TITLE? 🤔 | ESPN FC

0:00 Hello, welcome to the show.

0:01 No gaps today, so look who is down with me.

0:04 Look at him.

0:04 This guy in an Arsenal top.

0:06 Look at him.

0:07 Look at this.

0:08 Honestly, he's rubbing it in.

0:09 You all won cup in the bag.

0:11 Oh my days.

0:12 I should have brought my West Ham top on.

0:15 We will talk about Arsenal and West Ham, of course, Don, because you're here.

0:17 We talk about the title race as well as Man City, but really,

0:21 in a weekend full of football, and we talk about Serie A, Ligue 1, everything.

0:25 We have to stop starting Barcelona really

0:28 in the classico for the first time ever, Don.

0:31 Mhm.

0:30 A team won the title through the classico

0:33 after the classico by the result in the classico.

0:35 Barcelona 29th time now champion of Spain.

0:39 Well deserved throughout the season.

0:41 We talked about Champions League before and maybe

0:42 what they could do to go further.

0:45 In terms of the league, no real surprise there.

0:47 No, and the standard of goals that they scored were just off the charts.

0:52 Like you what you we watch a lot of football,

0:53 all leagues, all divisions up and around the world,

0:56 and you watch elite footballers doing elite things, and you go at the Rashford

1:00 free kick.

1:00 Yeah.

1:00 It's the hardest skill because everything that you've been

1:02 taught when the free kick's there is top right-hand corner.

1:05 He's whipped it away into the top left.

1:07 right-hand side of the box, yeah.

1:08 Exactly.

1:08 So it's the harder skill to try and whip that on the angle into the stanchion,

1:10 and then the El Mo flick and the goal.

1:12 I mean, it was just you're just watching

1:14 Barca on another level to where Real Madrid are, but it was a great game.

1:17 Even without Lamine Yamal, with de Jong on the bench,

1:20 Raphinha on the bench, so not even the Barca first team,

1:23 it was not even the Real Madrid first team cuz Mbappé,

1:25 for example, wasn't wasn't there.

1:27 There was no Valverde.

1:27 We talk about the nightmare week that Real Madrid had overall.

1:32 But this Barca team, certainly going forward, defensively, it's another matter,

1:36 but going forward, when Daniel Olmo is that creative,

1:39 when Ferran Torres scores the chances that he creates,

1:42 when Rashford is in that kind of form, it's pretty spectacular.

1:45 On the Rashford free kick, amazing free kick.

1:47 Yeah.

1:47 He was very good in this game.

1:49 Yeah.

1:50 Would you keep him if you were Barcelona?

1:51 If you if you Rashford, would you want to stay there?

1:53 Oh, I think if you're Rashford, yeah.

1:54 I think he he he was quite saying he needs

1:56 a change at Man United and he wants something different.

1:59 I think Barca is the perfect place for him.

2:01 He looks like he's a different player.

2:03 He looks like he's enjoying his football.

2:04 You see a different demeanor in him.

2:06 I think you're probably looking at and correct me if

2:08 I'm wrong when you watch Barca compared to Real Madrid now,

2:12 the sort of DNA has always been

2:13 in Barcelona to play football and play high tempo.

2:17 Tiki-taka is a little bit of an old school word,

2:18 but they do play good football where Real Madrid is all about moments,

2:22 creating moments and having special moments, but on on Rashford,

2:26 I think wages might have to be lowered.

2:29 Transfer fee I don't think for someone that's 28 is that big.

2:32 30 million doesn't seem a lot.

2:34 So, I think the question you're probably asking if you're not going to sign him,

2:37 how much money would you have to pay to get a replacement for him?

2:41 And that would probably be double.

2:42 So, it economically and from the player's point of view,

2:46 terms of his talent, I think it makes absolute sense.

2:49 Yeah, I agree with you.

2:49 I mean, they would have other problems to sort out.

2:51 What do you do with Lewandowski?

2:53 If he goes, how do you replace him?

2:54 Again, it's a lot of money.

2:55 So, there's probably something to do there.

2:57 There's a defense to strengthen.

2:59 That's the key, I think, too.

3:01 Whether it's Bastoni or I don't know,

3:02 Van de Ven type if you want a bit of pace, all those kind of guys.

3:06 I think if you want to play the flick, you know,

3:09 flick ball or flick style of football with a super

3:11 high line that we've mentioned so many times,

3:13 you obviously need defenders as fast as possible, right?

3:16 It's pretty simple, isn't it?

3:17 It's like it's amazing when you like you watch football and you see like

3:20 the tactics and things like you watch and they're staring you in the face.

3:24 If you're going to play a high line

3:26 and Flick's adamant he's going to play that high line.

3:28 He talks about the risk and reward of closing teams down.

3:31 It's pretty obvious he needs fast defenders.

3:34 Yeah.

3:33 So, Eric Garcia is a good footballer.

3:35 He's always been a always been technically very good,

3:37 but if you're playing a high line, he's not your man.

3:39 You need a Van de Ven.

3:40 You need pace.

3:41 So, I would imagine if Hansi Flick

3:43 is thinking about Champions League football for next

3:45 year and how they can try and dominate La Liga and go three on the spin,

3:49 but win the Champions League, it feels like they need faster defenders.

3:51 So, you need technical ability.

3:53 Yeah, yeah.

3:54 Pace definitely helps.

3:55 You said when we were preparing for this show

3:56 that for them to go further in the Champions League,

3:58 for example, they were knocked out in the semi-final

4:00 last season against Inter in that epic Yeah.

4:03 semi-final.

4:03 Crazy game.

4:04 Crazy game.

4:05 Quite a final this time against Atletico in a game

4:08 that maybe could have turned a different way.

4:11 Yeah.

4:10 To go further, and you said it's a bit when you play that kind of football,

4:13 it's a bit of a the the the coin right?

4:16 coin.

4:16 It's the toss of the coin, exactly.

4:17 Yeah, yeah, so it could go your way or the other way.

4:18 it's it's like you're turning the game,

4:20 and you and what he's probably banking on and and his philosophy

4:23 is we've got better players than the opposition,

4:25 but we need them higher up the pitch.

4:27 So, you win the ball back higher up the pitch,

4:28 you're 20 yards, 30 yards from goal, you're you're one shot away from scoring,

4:32 or you're a couple of passes away from getting in.

4:34 Whereas, if you go deep and you're in a low block,

4:36 you've got a lot further to travel.

4:37 Yeah, yeah.

4:38 So, it it it makes absolute sense, but when you've got a high line,

4:41 and it can work in La Liga for 95% of the time, or a little bit more.

4:45 Once you go up against elite players and elite teams,

4:48 you turn the game into a toss of a coin.

4:51 completely.

4:51 Are we going to win?

4:51 Are we going to lose?

4:53 Yeah.

4:53 And I don't think coaches like that.

4:55 Yeah.

4:55 think I don't think I think coaches want a lot more control.

4:58 Yeah.

4:58 It'd be interesting to see what Flick does.

5:00 By the way, on anti-Flick and and the whole Flick family,

5:03 we obviously send our condolences after his his father

5:06 passed away on the morning of the game.

5:07 He still wanted to be there in the on the bench with the team.

5:11 They obviously got the trophy.

5:13 So, I think it was a probably a great tribute to his to his father.

5:16 We'll talk about Real Madrid on the on the Gab and Juls podcast done as well,

5:20 and the gap between them and Barcelona,

5:22 and how this could have turned into a humiliation.

5:25 So, make sure you stay with us and listen to that on the Gab and Juls podcast.

5:28 Right then, let's continue a bit on on the Clasico,

5:30 and certainly the gap between the two clubs.

5:32 There was a point in towards the end of the first

5:34 half where I think for 2 minutes and 30 seconds,

5:38 Real Madrid didn't touch the ball.

5:40 Every Every player, including the goalkeeper of Barcelona,

5:43 touched the ball, and it was literally like a massive rondo.

5:47 Yeah.

5:46 But like, you know, you can I guess if the game is still open

5:50 I love the fact that when that was happening you thought of me.

5:53 Yeah.

5:53 Because I thought because I thought there's a there's a few things.

5:56 I was watching and I'm like Bam.

5:59 Yeah.

5:59 I'm like if I was on the pitch,

6:01 I was going to like go mad cuz it must be so frustrating.

6:04 The only thing that was missing was the company didn't go "Hey!

6:07 Hey!" you know every time they pass the ball

6:08 like sometimes toward the end of the game.

6:10 And this was like the 42nd minute or something like that.

6:14 He's just going to nail someone.

6:16 Exactly.

6:16 But so Okay, so Barca could be a brilliant team with the ball

6:20 even without De Jong or Lamine or Raphinha and stuff like that.

6:24 But you just pass it on and nobody

6:26 like Real Madrid were literally chasing shadows.

6:30 As a player they want to chase shadows cuz sometimes they're not even bothered.

6:33 Yeah.

6:34 Is that a structure problem in terms of the tactics?

6:38 Is that just the players' mentality?

6:40 They were already two nil down and well beaten and humiliated already anyway.

6:44 Can't be bothered.

6:45 What what is it?

6:46 I I think it's a combination of they've got a temporary manager in and Arbeloa.

6:50 So he's not the manager.

6:51 No, and he won't be there next year anyway.

6:52 Well, I but I always go back to when you're a professional footballer fans love

6:56 to think that you're playing for the badge

6:58 on the front of the shirt and you are.

6:59 Yeah.

6:59 But you're playing for the name on the back of the shirt.

7:01 You're playing for your your name.

7:02 You're playing for pride.

7:04 Yeah.

7:04 And you've got to do it.

7:04 You've got to run.

7:05 So if you're Real Madrid and you're going against your arch

7:07 rivals and they're oleing and you're not getting anywhere near them.

7:11 I mean, I know it's not in Vini Jr.

7:12 or or I know Kili wasn't playing but it's

7:14 not in them to go and tackle and smash someone.

7:16 But surely someone in the middle of the park can.

7:18 I know.

7:19 Surely you've got to try and set the tempo and say with a tackle it sort

7:22 of yellow card tackle you sort of men- mentally

7:26 is setting the tone to your teammates going right, this is not acceptable.

7:29 Let's get into them a little bit more.

7:31 And then when we find our feet and we stop them from oleing,

7:33 we can then get on the ball.

7:35 Yeah.

7:35 But I think that's the whole problem about Real Madrid.

7:37 It's like the conversation always sort of goes full circle.

7:41 It's like Xabi Alonso brought in to change the mentality.

7:45 Players didn't like it.

7:46 They didn't want to run.

7:47 They thought he was a school teacher.

7:48 He He had to ask them to run, which is a problem.

7:51 Yeah, video analysis were too long, apparently.

7:53 they went upstairs and he got fired.

7:55 Yeah.

7:54 And now they've got a temporary teacher in and they're

7:57 walking all over him and he hasn't got the authority.

7:59 Yeah, absolutely.

8:00 That's a great summary of it.

8:01 where do they go?

8:02 Do they go back to a an Ancelotti like we were talking about

8:04 before or is it a plan where you put your arm around the players,

8:08 but then eventually they'll they'll take take the mickey

8:11 and they'll walk all over you at some point.

8:13 Or do you get someone like Jose and Florentino Perez has got to say to Jose,

8:17 in that first team talk when you give it to your players, give it to them.

8:20 Yeah, I mean, he wouldn't do that.

8:21 He doesn't need to be told, probably.

8:23 Tell them.

8:24 If you don't work, you don't run, out.

8:26 And see how they react.

8:29 Yeah.

8:28 they don't work and don't run,

8:30 then you're going to be leaving the biggest club in the world.

8:32 Shame on you.

8:33 So, start working harder.

8:35 Because there's also a case of what do you do with this squad then?

8:37 Okay, let alone the manager,

8:38 let's say they find they believe in Mourinho, they believe in, you know,

8:42 I don't know, Klopp Klopp won't come,

8:44 but you know, somebody like that, let's say.

8:46 But then there's still a lot of rebuilding to do

8:48 and a lot of work to do with that squad.

8:50 You know, who's good enough?

8:51 But you can change the culture first, can't you?

8:54 true.

8:53 So, that culture changes first and then the the the hard workers,

8:57 the Camavingas and the Tchouaménis and the Valverdes,

8:59 they'll get on board cuz they don't mind it.

9:02 So, they can latch onto, right, we're going to work hard.

9:04 Then you've got to pull Vini in or Kylian

9:06 or the guys that don't want to work as hard.

9:09 And if you get results, you pull them alongside, then you generate momentum.

9:13 But then you agree that if you look at two

9:15 other clubs who changed their DNA and identity recently,

9:18 Arsenal on one side with Arteta, PSG with Luis Enrique on the other side.

9:21 For one, it took longer to get to success than the other one,

9:26 but they also got rid of the players that they didn't think were fit fitting in.

9:33 Yeah.

9:32 An Aubameyang, a Neymar, a variety of those kind of guys.

9:36 In this dressing room,

9:38 I think whoever comes as a manager will look at it and say,

9:40 "Okay, him, I don't think he's right

9:43 for for for what we're trying to build here or do.

9:45 Not him, not him, not him." But then good

9:47 luck if you don't want Vini at the club,

9:49 good luck to sell Vini to somebody on the money

9:52 that he's on, the player that he is.

9:54 Outside of Europe in Europe,

9:55 I don't know who could right now even afford Vinicius Junior.

9:58 It would be funny to think that Real

10:00 Madrid should try and copy what Barca have done,

10:03 but at the same time look at what Luis Enrique has done.

10:05 Yeah?

10:06 When Messi was there and Kylian Mbappe were there and we all sat it and we went,

10:10 "This is never going to work.

10:11 It looks amazing on paper." Like Real Madrid, really.

10:16 Exactly.

10:15 So it looks amazing on paper,

10:17 but we all know it's not going to work cuz you can't carry three

10:19 players in the game if you're not if you're not chasing down the ball.

10:22 So they've they've proved Luis Enrique has

10:23 proved that if you build a good culture and young guys that are willing to work

10:28 hard on top of the talent and smart recruitment,

10:31 you're going to be better than signing Galacticos.

10:34 Yeah.

10:34 So maybe that's the edge that Real Madrid have got

10:35 to go away from, which has always been their thing.

10:37 The Galacticos, that's It might be a time where you go rip that up Yeah.

10:42 and let's get proper footballers in.

10:43 Yeah, probably.

10:45 As a former player, when you see the week,

10:47 even before the Clasico on the Sunday,

10:49 but the week that Real Madrid had with Valverde and Tchouaméni fighting,

10:54 arguments everywhere, the stories now coming out of that dressing room about

10:58 our below and the lack of authority that you just mentioned,

11:01 players not talking to him, him falling out with the law of the dressing room.

11:06 I know you've been there before and you

11:07 would have been in environments kind of similar.

11:10 Um how do you see it from a player's point of view?

11:14 Because surely with a preparation like that in this week

11:16 without Mbappe as well for the Clasico,

11:19 they must have known this is going to be tough tonight.

11:22 I think from a player's point of view, listen, it happens, right?

11:26 It happens everywhere.

11:26 It happens everywhere.

11:27 you I guarantee every club that I've ever been

11:29 at and every ex-pro will tell the same story where fights happen.

11:32 They No, they do because cuz you're you're you're you're 20 guys who see each

11:36 other every single day and you see your teammates more than you see your family.

11:40 You spend a lot of time with them.

11:41 So, eventually, me and you if we spent 6 weeks together,

11:44 we're going to have a disagreement.

11:46 Doesn't mean we don't like each other.

11:47 It's just inevitable.

11:47 It's just the way you see football, I see football.

11:50 But then you add the competitive edge into then

11:52 me and you playing against each other and you

11:54 leave one on me and then I leave one

11:56 on you and then there's 18 guys getting involved.

11:59 It just seems that Real Madrid there's been

12:00 stories I think of Rüdiger slapping a teammate.

12:03 It just seems a bit like chaotic.

12:04 Like who's putting these guys into line?

12:06 Steven Nicol I thought made a fantastic point on this question

12:09 where he said from a our below point of view,

12:13 the morning and after the original spat sort of happened,

12:16 why would you put them on a 7 v 7 against each other?

12:19 I know.

12:19 Use your brain and put them on the same team.

12:21 Yeah.

12:22 And dilute and and make the thing a lot calmer rather than

12:26 put them against each other where it's just going to kick off again.

12:28 But it just tells you what's going

12:30 on at that club where there's a lot of pressure.

12:33 Fights can happen.

12:33 It's not the end of the world.

12:34 It's how the manager and the owner deals with it.

12:37 You pull them into line.

12:38 You fine them heavily and this must never

12:40 happen again otherwise a bigger fine comes or suspension.

12:44 Threatening someone's career and 2 weeks wages or threatening

12:48 a suspension would seriously make a player jump back into line.

12:52 I promise you.

12:52 I mean their fine was half a million euros

12:54 each Valverde and Tchouaméni although I guess on them

12:58 on their wages that's not that's not much

13:00 but it's more for the the principle of it.

13:02 Uh Valverde could not play the Clásico because

13:04 he was still obviously recovering from the uh

13:06 And by the way, I've got to say I didn't buy

13:08 his line when he said I hit my head on the table.

13:10 It's like I mean it was probably a bit of everything probably but

13:14 I didn't buy it.

13:15 It It reminded me of like when you've had a fight

13:19 with someone at school and the headmaster's got you in and you've gone,

13:22 "No, I hit my head on the door." Yeah.

13:24 Who started it?

13:25 I not me.

13:25 into a door, broke my nose, black it.

13:28 Rubbish.

13:29 Rubbish.

13:29 I'm not buying it.

13:30 I like I I like it.

13:32 I like it cuz he's trying to diffuse it.

13:34 Not a chance.

13:35 That's the That's the right idea.

13:37 Um I I think, like you said, in a dressing room,

13:40 nobody can be friends with each other, right?

13:42 It's impossible.

13:43 There's too many different cultures, personalities, influences, everything.

13:49 The problem is when it it gets to that point, right?

13:52 Where And it keeps happening.

13:54 Yeah, exactly.

13:55 So, if it's the same two players,

13:56 if it's the same two players that are constantly involved in the same thing,

13:59 something has to give.

14:01 Yeah, yeah.

14:01 And either you take them both out the team or drastically you sell one.

14:07 Yeah.

14:07 Uh to be fair, I think he if he hadn't been the clásico on Sunday,

14:10 I think they would have probably dropped Tchouaméni.

14:13 I mean, Valverde could not play anyway, but maybe Tchouaméni deserved,

14:15 on top of the fine, to just miss out the next game or two.

14:19 It was just the clásico.

14:20 They need They needed him, but even with him, it was not good enough.

14:24 How long do you think this kind of shift in Well,

14:29 how long could it take for Real Madrid to come

14:30 back to even being just a serious club, really?

14:34 Knowing them, probably pretty quickly.

14:36 With investment and the right investment.

14:38 And the right manager, yeah?

14:39 Yeah, and the right manager.

14:39 Yeah, so all them things into consideration,

14:42 Real Madrid have always been a club where

14:44 they've been built on the sort of galácticos, if you go back many a year,

14:47 but even when they won the Champions Leagues, it was moments.

14:51 Yeah.

14:51 You know, the the the I can't remember the year,

14:53 but the year when they won the Champions League, everyone had them beaten.

14:56 PSG had them beaten, I think.

14:57 Man City had them beaten.

14:58 They went and scored late goals, and they somehow turned it around and won.

15:02 And it was like, "Well, that's Real Madrid's culture.

15:04 They can turn it on because they are the team that in the Champions League,

15:06 when that music happens,

15:07 they can turn it on." At that club, it feels like it's huge,

15:11 and it feels like it might take loads of time,

15:13 but knowing how they work and what they

15:15 stand for, the right manager comes in, the right

15:18 group of players with a work ethic and get it across to the current players,

15:22 if you fall into line and you're willing to work hard

15:24 because Vinicius Júnior is one of the best players in the world.

15:26 So is Kylian.

15:27 And then you add Jude Bellingham.

15:29 And maybe you need to find a cultured number six.

15:33 You know, we were talking before about Casemiro

15:34 and we were talking about Luka Modrić and Toni Kroos.

15:38 Maybe it's that project sort of gone.

15:40 So you're going to have to do it slightly different.

15:41 They need to find a few more technical players.

15:45 Cuz it doesn't feel like the shift could be that big at the same time.

15:49 Could take Could take Could take years if the right manager doesn't come in.

15:53 But it feels like knowing them, they could be back pretty quickly.

15:56 Well, it was for sure Don is that it's a massive summer ahead for Real Madrid.

15:59 Right Don, let's turn our attention now back to the Premier League

16:01 and really the the one game that everybody's talking about right now.

16:05 It was Sunday afternoon at the London Stadium between West Ham and and Arsenal.

16:09 Massive win for Arsenal.

16:10 We talked after We talked later about the VAR call

16:14 and and all that controversy cuz that's also what everybody's talking about.

16:17 But purely in terms of what this means to Arsenal,

16:19 this is the one game to to go and win, right?

16:22 I think everyone is thinking the same thing.

16:23 If you go to London Stadium and you get three points off the back of Man City,

16:27 they obviously won against Brentford but drew 3-3

16:29 at Everton the week before, the game before.

16:31 It felt like if you're Arsenal, that's the biggest test.

16:34 You go there, London derby, West Ham and they've beat them before.

16:38 It's a game where they bunkered in and they drew a nil-nil before.

16:41 It's a hard place to go for them.

16:42 Not so much historically, but it can be tricky.

16:45 That was the game where you thought and I

16:47 sort of called the scoreline a couple of days earlier.

16:48 I thought West Ham will grind, will try and play,

16:51 they'll get chances because they're in good form,

16:53 but Arsenal's quality might just get them over

16:55 the line with a sneaky sort of 1-0 win.

16:57 And that's the way it sort of turned out.

16:58 But yeah, it was a shame for West Ham they didn't

17:00 take something from the game cuz I thought their performance deserved it.

17:02 From Arsenal, just keep winning.

17:05 Doesn't matter how now.

17:06 Doesn't matter.

17:07 It just has to be about Just win.

17:10 Don't care.

17:10 Just win.

17:11 It was a Leandro Trossard goal kind of shot deflected a bit.

17:17 Ødegaard with the assist first He done great.

17:20 who came on.

17:21 Arteta seems to have got maybe the call on the White injury

17:24 and putting Declan Rice at right back first to finish that first half.

17:28 Maybe not the best decision, what do you think?

17:30 No, yeah, I think you you're taking too much away from Declan Rice to take him

17:34 out of a position and put him in the right back where Mosquera was the answer.

17:37 So Mosquera should have come on straight away, you think?

17:38 Yeah, yeah.

17:39 Because I just think like Declan Rice is is like Szoboszlai where you

17:42 can put him in a right back and he'll do a really good job.

17:44 But you lose a lot from Declan Rice in midfield cuz that's that's the area

17:48 of the pitch you want that that sort

17:49 of quality and that legs and that leadership.

17:52 So yeah, I think he tried it Arteta because he

17:53 he might have saw something in his technical area where

17:55 he thought that's the way to go cuz West Ham

17:58 might have been a threat with Somerville down that side.

18:00 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

18:01 I think when you're in that technical area it's all

18:02 always fascinates me on how managers see things ground level.

18:05 We can watch it on TV, we can have an opinion or you can commentate

18:08 on the game or watch it in the stand.

18:10 But for the managers inside the technical area it must be very hard.

18:13 Yeah.

18:13 And I think they deserve like everything they get because you've

18:15 got to make decisions on how you see things in game.

18:18 So I thought he made it, didn't work.

18:20 Switched it straight back to Declan Rice in midfield and then it worked.

18:23 And Rice had played kind of like kind of like right back

18:26 third center back if you want position for a bit more control.

18:29 So I I had a feeling he would do that when White got injured.

18:33 Yeah.

18:33 Maybe not the right thing to do.

18:34 Certainly the substitutions after that from Odegaard especially had

18:37 a great impact off the bench even more than

18:39 a very good player.

18:40 I mean he's obviously a very good player.

18:41 We've known about Odegaard for years.

18:43 But it seems like in this season he's getting his best joy coming off the bench.

18:46 Yeah, it's a few games now, yeah.

18:48 Maybe when teams have sort of put so much effort into an hour

18:51 and they're just starting to fade and you can't quite cover the turf

18:53 and you're a little bit of a yard off and then Odegaard comes

18:55 on and he's got brilliant technique

18:57 with a great football brain and he finds space.

19:00 cuz he drove the ball quite well on the goal

19:01 but also even before that when he when he came on.

19:06 If you're Trossard and you've had a good season,

19:07 there were bad highs and lows obviously, um,

19:10 difficult time personally in his private life as well

19:13 to score the goal that maybe everybody will

19:15 remember and celebrate because he scored

19:18 on the on the the away end where the away end was.

19:21 It must be a special moment, right?

19:23 Yeah, I I Yeah, I think he's a very underrated player.

19:25 Over the years when Jota was at Liverpool,

19:27 I I I thought him and Trossard were the same sort of player

19:30 where they're so undervalued or underrated

19:32 and they are just really good players,

19:34 but they're effective.

19:35 Like Trossard's effective.

19:37 Like you start him or come off the bench,

19:39 great attitude, character, ability, effective to score or make things happen.

19:43 Um so yeah, I'm pleased for him.

19:45 Um at the start of start of the season when

19:48 people were sort of asking the question about Arsenal's best 11,

19:50 I never really bought into it.

19:51 I thought Arsenal's best thing is their squad.

19:55 Yeah.

19:55 And using if it's Saka off the bench or Martinelli or Trossard or whoever,

19:59 Jesus, the the the sort of the list goes on.

20:03 He's built a very good squad there.

20:06 Let's go now into the the VAR corner, right?

20:08 Look at this guy with his Arsenal badge on.

20:10 been dying to talk about it.

20:10 Let's go.

20:11 Let's go.

20:13 I'm just saying.

20:13 I mean, you've got Hang on, you've got an ex-West Ham player.

20:16 Yeah, I know.

20:16 And a guy with an Arsenal badge on.

20:18 you're still objective.

20:19 Last minute of the game, it's a corner.

20:22 The ball comes through Raya's hands and then on the second kind of second phase,

20:27 Callum Wilson scored to make it 1-1, right?

20:29 He's the

20:29 And it was, by the way, amazing finish.

20:31 Yeah, amazing finish.

20:32 He's just come on.

20:34 VAR calls the ref, the ref doesn't give anything.

20:36 VAR calls the ref to go and check for a foul on Raya.

20:41 Yeah.

20:40 It looks like Pablo does have his arm all over Raya.

20:43 I'd agree with that.

20:43 But your your issue is more what happens before that or around

20:46 that more than that foul that I think we all agree is a foul.

20:49 That's where I'm a little bit uncomfortable.

20:51 And before anyone starts, right,

20:52 it's not any Arsenal hate cuz I can't stand all that.

20:55 We No, no, I can't believe We we we we call it we're we're honest enough

20:59 to call things how we see it even if we get things right and get things wrong,

21:02 but there's no bias being an ex-West Ham player.

21:05 I just felt uncomfortable watching that goal being chalked off.

21:08 And I've got to say I felt for the referee under immense pressure.

21:13 absolutely.

21:12 Like that must have been hard.

21:15 I agree.

21:15 You know, trying to decipher what's going on.

21:17 My issue with the goal being chalked off,

21:19 and there is a foul from Pablo on Raya, 100%.

21:23 I get it.

21:24 But when I see the still shots and when I see the replay over and over again,

21:28 there's a foul from Trossard on Pablo

21:31 prior to the Pablo on Raya.

21:33 not at the same time and not after.

21:35 So, that should take precedent in my opinion.

21:37 There's a foul from Declan Rice on Mavropanos in a rugby tackle.

21:40 He actually fouled two players, but the the Mavropanos was the more blatant.

21:44 So, when I look at it,

21:45 I just think the authorities now have got themselves

21:48 in a really hard place and something needs to be solved.

21:51 And it's not an Arsenal thing.

21:52 Every team does it.

21:54 Yeah.

21:54 But it's not me thinking of Arsenal.

21:55 Every team are at it cuz they see the fine margins and they

21:58 want to win and they want to they want to push the boundaries.

22:01 But for me, when I look at the whole thing and I wrap it all up in a bow,

22:04 I go I would have been because another thing as well, ref's call is a law.

22:10 Ref's call on the pitch, didn't give it.

22:12 Was it a clear and obvious error from the referee to overturn it?

22:15 Not in my opinion because there's so much going on.

22:18 So, there's so many factors and little nuances where you bring it in and you go,

22:22 if that goal had have stood because everything else was going

22:25 on, I think that would have been acceptable and would have been fine.

22:28 And that's my take.

22:29 No, no, that's I can really I hear you completely.

22:32 I think the foul from Pablo on Raya is so big I I understand that.

22:38 It's a big talking point.

22:39 It's a big controversial.

22:40 Of course, everybody around the world is talking about that.

22:42 We'll talk a bit more about that call,

22:44 but also what that means for West Ham in their hope to stay up and what also

22:48 it means in the title race between Arsenal

22:50 and and City on the Gab and Juls podcast.

22:52 Make sure you listen to it.

22:53 Well, let's go let's continue this chat, Don,

22:55 because there's there's there's a there's a discussion to have.

22:58 Not so much around VAR, we had million of them.

23:00 But maybe on those corners and set and wide set pieces,

23:04 what to do with them to avoid not just

23:07 the kind of WWE wrestling thing that we've seen.

23:10 gone that way, though.

23:11 It's gone that way.

23:12 Does this happen in France?

23:14 Not as much, no.

23:15 But, maybe we're not just as advanced on thin

23:17 margin and trying to get the extra percent

23:19 that is going to make you win the title or win a game or something like that.

23:23 Some teams like to lose doing really well and they're very strong on set pieces,

23:26 long as well, but it's not this kind of like massive scrum.

23:30 Scrum, yeah.

23:31 I just feel as though it's gone too far now.

23:33 And it's not an Arsenal thing.

23:34 No, no, no, yeah, everybody wants it anyway, yeah.

23:36 But, it's gone too far now where people are grappling, people are holding.

23:40 The the the you know,

23:42 goalkeepers back in the day used to be really protected, like ultra protected.

23:46 maybe, yeah, something like

23:47 Too much, but now we've gone too far.

23:49 I know.

23:49 So, now we've got to try and find a middle ground.

23:50 I heard an ex-referee um talking today about potentially changing

23:55 a law where when corners are being put in the box,

23:58 attackers are not allowed in the six-yard box.

24:00 Yeah.

24:01 I mean, I like the fact that they're coming up with ideas, but that's

24:03 Yeah, yeah.

24:05 crazy.

24:05 Yeah, I mean, that would be yeah.

24:06 you're changing the whole laws of the game.

24:08 And then we'll get to the point where attackers

24:09 are jumping and their feet are on the line.

24:11 And then you get like and it's like

24:13 Let's review it.

24:14 But, there has to be something.

24:15 I like the fact that people are thinking outside

24:16 the box because it's gone just it's gone too aggressive.

24:20 Yeah.

24:20 I agree.

24:21 And there's the goalkeeper's not getting protected.

24:25 Everyone's just grappling each other.

24:26 Defenders are probably doing it, but attackers seem to be doing it more.

24:29 I don't know where we go with it.

24:30 I know.

24:31 It's one of them where you need to brainstorm, sit down,

24:33 have a cup of coffee, everyone sit in a room,

24:36 different ideas, ex-footballers, journalists, um ex-referees, current referees,

24:41 and everyone just chatted back and forth, back and forth, and find a solution.

24:45 Cuz your authorities have got to do something now.

24:47 The problem though about this kind of let's say

24:49 the six-yard box is that this is really just for England.

24:53 Yeah.

24:54 Because it's not the same problem in the rest

24:55 of the world or the rest of Europe.

24:57 So, you could have a a rule for England,

24:59 but then when English clubs play in the Champions League, it's not that rule.

25:02 Then you go back to And then it's it's difficult.

25:05 When we When we prepared for the show, I said to you,

25:08 "What if suddenly to try to get a bit

25:10 more discipline in that box and in the six-yard box,

25:13 for the first few weeks,

25:14 every time there's something uh like an attacking what you feel like

25:19 is an attacking foul from the attacking team somewhere on the goalkeeper,

25:23 on the defender, you just blow for the defensive team.

25:25 The team that is defending that free kick,

25:26 that's a dead piece." And then after that, they would stop.

25:30 I think so.

25:30 It would take a bit of time,

25:32 but it would dilute the problem or or the or the obvious fouls.

25:35 Referees have to be tougher.

25:37 I mean, at at the same time, imagine you're being a referee, right?

25:40 And you're standing on the edge of the box,

25:41 and there's about 16, 17 players inside the box.

25:44 And your eyes are drawn to me and you having a grapple.

25:47 But things are going on at the far post.

25:48 Goalkeepers getting his

25:49 Which is a bit the case in this West Ham-Arsenal game, like you said.

25:52 Yeah.

25:52 That's what I'm saying.

25:52 So, I don't know.

25:54 I mean, even even like a radical thing where

25:56 you appoint an extra official to be on corners,

26:00 as in like next to the post.

26:03 So, he's got an extra eye on everyone inside the 18-yard box.

26:07 Or even more radical, you've got two.

26:08 I don't know.

26:09 So- Something needs So- Some idea.

26:11 Even just trial it.

26:13 Yeah.

26:13 Trial it somewhere where an extra official one behind

26:15 the goal on sort of next to the goal this side,

26:17 another one at the top end of the pitch,

26:18 corners and free kicks coming in, they might just

26:21 be able to give a referee and VAR a little Yeah.

26:25 Probably.

26:26 I don't know.

26:26 It It It It just feels like massively at the moment.

26:29 And it's been coming, but it feels like this season especially.

26:32 And again, it's nothing to do with Arsenal.

26:34 I've got to stress it.

26:34 It's nothing to do with Arsenal.

26:36 All teams do it.

26:37 It just feels as though what you're watching on TV now, it's all gone too far.

26:41 Yeah.

26:41 I agree.

26:43 I agree.

26:43 Before that controversy, before even the Trossard goal, before um the VAR call,

26:48 there was this big chance for West Ham and nil-nil,

26:51 Matheus Fernandes great one-two into the box and then

26:53 it's him V Raya and Raya makes the save.

26:56 I mean it it is a great save and people have latched

26:58 on to a magnificent save and could be the save that wins Arsenal the title.

27:03 Which is true, yeah.

27:04 Ish.

27:05 It's a horrendous miss.

27:06 I agree with you on that.

27:07 I thought it's straight away.

27:09 I mean he's tried to take the mickey

27:10 out the goalkeeper by taking an extra touch.

27:13 Yeah.

27:13 Sitting him down and giving him the eyes.

27:15 The whole finish was right on side.

27:17 I agree.

27:18 You had a gap of

27:19 I agree.

27:20 You had a gap of about two or three meters to the right hand side.

27:22 Slot it in.

27:23 Yeah.

27:24 I agree.

27:24 So Raya good save granted.

27:26 Yeah, yeah, he's He stayed He stayed on his feet yeah a long

27:28 I mean just score it.

27:29 If you score that for West Ham at nil-nil

27:31 It's finished.

27:32 the worst you're going to get is a draw.

27:33 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

27:34 Exactly.

27:34 could take three points.

27:35 So I don't want to criticize Fernandez that much because

27:38 I've watched him this season and he is the one

27:41 Yeah, he's really good for West

27:41 I I he's Champions League football I think.

27:43 He's been He's been I think he's been Yeah,

27:45 he's been a fantastic signing and one of the better players but Yeah, bad miss.

27:49 And bad miss that.

27:50 And you know when we look back at the season

27:52 whether West Ham stay up or go down,

27:54 you can look at some in some moments in the season and that'll be one of them.

27:58 Same for Arsenal if they win the title,

27:59 they'll be the chance of a shot but they will be also

28:01 be the the Raya save and Raya's been excellent all season really.

28:05 I remember the save against Brighton that he makes

28:07 at two one up at the Emirates that is

28:09 going in the top corner and he saves it

28:10 and that that's also how you win the title.

28:13 Talking about title race Mhm.

28:15 We are back to five points clear

28:16 for Arsenal over City plus two in goal difference

28:21 Yeah.

28:20 but with a game more played.

28:22 Uh City will play their game in hand on Wednesday night against Palace at home

28:26 Yeah.

28:26 to bring it back to two points.

28:28 Yeah.

28:28 Where do you think that title race is now?

28:30 I think you're looking at probably 90-10.

28:33 90-10?

28:33 That high?

28:34 I think I I think so, mate.

28:35 I think West Ham was their toughest hurdle.

28:37 I think they'll wallop Burnley.

28:39 Yeah, home is on Monday night.

28:40 wallop with Brighton.

28:41 I think off the back of this win knowing that they're so close

28:45 and the carrot of a Champions League final

28:47 against PSG must have that dressing room buzzing.

28:51 Yeah.

28:51 And you're playing Burnley and no disrespect

28:52 because I was on comments for the game

28:53 when City beat them 1-0 and everyone thought they might beat them five or six.

28:57 midweek, yeah.

28:57 Didn't happen.

28:58 Um I think Arsenal at home I can see them beating them by four or five.

29:02 I think if they score early,

29:04 floodgates gates could open and then title's probably theirs.

29:07 So, if I think both I think both of them win games.

29:10 I think both of them win all their games from here.

29:12 think?

29:12 I think so.

29:13 If City drop points against Palace on Wednesday, Right.

29:16 then Arsenal can win the title by beating Burnley on the Monday for those.

29:20 If City win against Palace, which we said it will go back to two points,

29:24 then Arsenal will be at home to Burnley,

29:26 away to Palace three days before their Conference League final.

29:32 Yeah.

29:32 Uh City will have Bournemouth away.

29:34 Yeah, tricky.

29:35 Very tricky.

29:36 I mean, they've not been beaten in 16, I think.

29:38 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

29:39 And then at home to Villa to finish the season.

29:42 Yeah, I think they'll I think City will win all their games.

29:44 I think Arsenal will win all their games.

29:46 I think the game against West Ham was so crucial.

29:50 Yeah.

29:50 And City will look back and they'll look at the Everton game where

29:55 They were in control.

29:56 They were in control and they were winning the game and then they collapsed.

29:58 Exactly, but do you know what?

29:59 I think when you look at the season as a whole

30:02 and you evaluate it when and if Arsenal win the league,

30:05 which I think they'll do, I think City win the league by about 10 points

30:09 next year because I think they will be so much stronger.

30:13 In a transitional year, they're still be fighting for a treble Yeah.

30:17 and still could walk away with at least one trophy.

30:19 FA Cup again against Chelsea, could be two,

30:21 so could be a double or a treble if they can manage to get over the line.

30:25 For a club and Pep to be in transition

30:27 and still be in contention to win three trophies,

30:30 they're going to be unbelievably strong next year.

30:33 Everyone, Liverpool, um Arsenal, Chelsea, whoever,

30:37 Villa, whoever's fighting for top four,

30:39 top five, uh the top first and second place,

30:44 they're all going to have to seriously improve

30:45 because City will go again in the summer.

30:48 Yeah, probably.

30:48 I think Arsenal get it I think they get it done, Jules.

30:50 I do.

30:50 I think so, too.

30:52 For City, I think Guardiola would go this summer.

30:54 Whatever happens in the league and the FA Cup

30:56 I think that I think if they don't win the title,

30:58 I think he'll stay one more year to win it.

30:59 He's got one more year on his contract, to be fair, but I I don't know.

31:02 I've got a feeling that he might not be there next season.

31:05 What about West Ham, your former one of your former club?

31:08 They're one point They're one point behind Spurs now,

31:10 who obviously have a game in hand to play tonight

31:12 as we record this on Monday night at home to Leeds.

31:16 Yeah.

31:16 If If Spurs were to beat Leeds,

31:17 they would be four points clear with two games to go.

31:20 Do you know what, mate?

31:20 I think about a week ago, 10 days ago, I was certain Spurs would go down.

31:25 Adamant they would go down.

31:26 Then they've just gone back-to-back wins.

31:28 Great win at Villa Park.

31:29 I never saw it coming.

31:30 That's the turning point, right?

31:31 The game at Villa Park when West Ham got beaten at Brentford 3-0.

31:34 And even the 1-0 win against Wolves,

31:36 the game before, they didn't play well, you know.

31:38 They They really didn't play well, and they looked second half in that game.

31:41 They looked as though they had no ideas,

31:44 no sort of any patterns or authority, and they got the 1-0 win.

31:47 Again, it's like Arsenal win the title, it's just about winning.

31:50 You know, Tottenham, just win.

31:51 And then they go to Villa Park, I thought,

31:52 "Not a chance they go there and win." Best case to get a draw.

31:55 They've gone there and won.

31:57 Then West Ham obviously play Arsenal and lose that game.

31:59 They're in a great position now, Spurs.

32:01 I I I think off the back of the two wins back-to-back,

32:04 I think they'll beat Leeds tonight.

32:05 I think they will.

32:06 And unfortunately for my old club, I think it has us down.

32:10 What would that mean to West Ham to go down?

32:12 It was the case that Nuno they sacked Potter too late,

32:15 that Nuno didn't come up earlier cuz he's

32:17 done clearly a good job, especially at home.

32:19 Yeah, I think all of that.

32:20 Even Even you can go back to the appointment of Lopetegui.

32:23 Never looked like that was ever going to work for me.

32:25 I think the best thing for West Ham if they've been here before,

32:29 and they've been down in the Championship before, so they know how to handle it.

32:33 They'll have a great chance of coming back up.

32:35 The worry, if you're West Ham or Tottenham or whoever goes,

32:38 I think now it's West Ham,

32:40 is the players all the top players Liverpool might be tempted by Jared Bowen.

32:46 Fernandez might be tempted by a move.

32:48 It might be one or two players Fernandez might be tempted by a big money move.

32:52 Somerville maybe.

32:53 That's always the worry.

32:54 I had it when we went down and all of a sudden you've got the likes

32:56 of Joe Cole and Michael Carrick and Trevor Sinclair's

32:59 and Freddie Kanoute's and Di Canio's and Jermain Defoe's.

33:03 All these guys You're Leicester, yeah.

33:04 Not all at the same time, but you know you're going to lose some of them.

33:08 And then like you get good guys

33:10 in like Joby McAnuff and Marlon Harewood and Nigel

33:13 Reo-Coker and you get good guys in for the Championship to get you back up.

33:17 You're losing the quality of the and I

33:19 disrespect the lads they'll they'll know what I mean.

33:21 And those boys got us back up.

33:24 That's the hard part,

33:25 but the good thing for West Ham as a club they've been here before.

33:28 Like if Tottenham went you would fear for them but how do they handle it?

33:31 Cuz they're all going to want to be off.

33:33 So panic stations, yes.

33:35 Nuno, it's a must that you keep.

33:37 Keep as many players that you can and then bounce right back.

33:41 Yeah.

33:41 It's not done though yet.

33:43 If you're a West Ham fan, you know,

33:44 anything is still possible in this Premier League season,

33:47 but it's fair to say that that defeat against Arsenal didn't

33:50 look good for the next for the rest of the season.

33:53 Well, let's let's continue this chat Don because

33:55 there's there's there's a there's a discussion to have.

33:57 Not so much around VAR, we had million of them,

33:59 but maybe on those corners and set and wide set pieces what to do

34:04 with them to avoid not just the kind of WWE wrestling thing that we've seen.

34:10 It has gone that way though.

34:10 It's gone that way.

34:11 Does this happen in France?

34:13 Not as much, no.

34:14 But maybe we're not just as advanced on thin

34:17 margin and trying to get the extra percent

34:19 that is going to make you win the title or win a game or something like that.

34:22 Some teams like to lose do really well and they're very strong on set pieces.

34:26 Lens as well, but it's not this kind of like massive scrum, yeah.

34:30 I just feel as though it's gone too far now.

34:32 And it's not an Arsenal thing.

34:33 No, no, no, yeah.

34:34 Everybody does it anyway, yeah.

34:35 But it's gone too far now where people are grappling, people are holding.

34:39 The the the You know, goalkeepers back in the day used to be really protected.

34:45 Yeah.

34:45 Like ultra protected.

34:46 Too much, maybe.

34:46 That's what I

34:46 Too much, but now we've gone too far.

34:48 Now we've got to try and find a middle ground.

34:50 I heard an ex-referee um talking today about potentially changing

34:54 a law where when corners are being put in the box,

34:57 attackers are not allowed in the 6-yard box.

35:01 Yeah.

35:00 I like the fact that they're coming up with ideas, but that's crazy.

35:02 Yeah, yeah.

35:04 Cuz it could go either way.

35:06 You're changing the whole laws of the game.

35:07 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

35:08 And then we'll get to the point where attackers

35:09 are jumping and their feet are on the line.

35:11 And then you get inside the six-yard and it's like Let's review it.

35:13 But there has to be something.

35:14 I like the fact that people are thinking outside

35:16 the box because it's gone just it's gone too aggressive.

35:20 Yeah, I agree.

35:20 And there's the goalkeeper's not getting protected.

35:24 Everyone's just grappling each other.

35:26 Defenders are probably doing it, but attackers seem to be doing it more.

35:29 I don't know where we go with it.

35:30 I know.

35:30 It's one of them where you need to brainstorm, sit down, have a cup of coffee.

35:34 Everyone's sitting in a room, different ideas,

35:36 ex-footballers, journalists, um ex-referees, current referees,

35:41 and everyone just chat it back and forth, back and forth, and find a solution.

35:44 Cuz the authorities have got to do something now.

35:46 The problem though about this kind of let's say

35:48 the 6-yard box is that this is really just for England.

35:53 Yeah.

35:54 Because it's not the same problem in the rest

35:55 of the world or the rest of Europe.

35:57 So you could have a a rule for England,

35:58 but then when English clubs play in the Champions League, it's not that rule.

36:01 Then you go back to and then it's it's difficult.

36:04 When we when we prepared for the show, I said to you,

36:07 what if suddenly to try to get a bit more discipline

36:10 in that box and in the 6-yard box for the first few weeks,

36:13 every time there's something uh like an attacking where you feel like

36:18 it's an attacking foul from the attacking team somewhere on the goalkeeper,

36:22 on the defender, you just blow for the defensive team.

36:24 The The that is defending that free kick,

36:26 that set And then after that they would stop.

36:29 I think so.

36:30 It would take a bit of time.

36:32 Yeah.

36:31 But it would dilute the problem or or the or the obvious fouls,

36:35 referees have to be tougher.

36:36 I mean at the same time, imagine you being a referee, right?

36:39 And you're standing on the edge of the box and there's about 16,

36:42 17 players inside the box and your eyes

36:44 are drawn to me and you having a grapple.

36:46 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

36:46 But things are going on at the far post.

36:48 Goalkeeper's getting it.

36:49 Which has been the case in this West Ham-Arsenal game, like you said.

36:51 what I'm saying.

36:51 That's what I'm saying.

36:52 So, I don't know.

36:53 I mean even even like a radical thing where you appoint an extra

36:57 official to be on corners as in like next to the post.

37:04 Yeah.

37:03 So, he's got an extra eye on everyone inside the 18-yard box.

37:06 Or even more radical, you've got two.

37:08 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

37:09 So, so something needs some some idea.

37:11 I mean just trial it.

37:13 Yeah.

37:12 Trial it somewhere where an extra official one behind

37:15 the goal on sort of next to the goal this side.

37:17 Another one at top end of the pitch.

37:18 Corners and free kicks coming in, they might just be

37:21 able to give a referee and VAR a little bit more

37:24 Yeah, I don't know I'm happy, yeah.

37:26 It It just feels like massively at the moment.

37:29 And it's been coming, but it feels like this season especially.

37:32 And again, it's nothing to do with Arsenal.

37:33 I've got to stress it.

37:34 It's nothing to do with Arsenal.

37:35 All teams do it.

37:36 It just feels as though what you're watching on TV now, it's all gone too far.

37:41 Yeah, I agree.

37:42 I agree.

37:43 Before that controversy, before even the Trossard goal, before the VAR call,

37:48 there was this big chance for West Ham and nil-nil Matheus Fernandes

37:51 great one-two into the box and then it's him V Raya and Raya makes the save.

37:55 I mean it it is a great save and people have latched onto

37:59 a magnificent save and could be the save that wins Arsenal the title.

38:02 Which is true, yeah.

38:04 Ish.

38:04 It's a horrendous miss.

38:06 I agree with you on that.

38:07 I thought it was straight away.

38:08 I mean he's tried to take the mickey

38:10 out of the goalkeeper by taking an extra touch,

38:12 sitting him down, and giving him the eyes.

38:15 The whole finish was right on side.

38:17 I agree.

38:17 You had a gap of I agree.

38:19 You had a gap of about two or three meters to the right hand side, slot it in.

38:23 Yeah, I agree.

38:23 So, Raya, good save, granted.

38:25 Yeah, yeah, he's saved it.

38:26 He stayed on his feet.

38:27 Yeah, a long time.

38:28 just score it.

38:28 If you score that for West Ham at nil-nil,

38:30 it's finished.

38:32 The worst you're going to get is a draw.

38:33 Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

38:34 could take three points.

38:35 So, I don't want to criticize Fernandez that much because

38:38 I've watched him this season and he is the one really good for us.

38:41 I I he's Champions League footballer, I think.

38:43 He's been He's been I think he's been Yeah,

38:44 he's been a fantastic signing and one of the better players, but yeah, bad miss.

38:49 And bad miss that.

38:50 And you know, when we look back at the season

38:52 whether West Ham stay up or go down, you could look at some in- some moments

38:55 in the season and that'll be one of them.

38:57 Same for Arsenal if they win the title, they'll be the Trossard shot,

39:00 but they will also be the the Raya save.

39:02 Uh and Raya has been excellent all season, really.

39:04 I remember the save against Brighton that he

39:07 makes at 2-1 up at the Emirates that is going in the top corner and he saves it

39:10 and that that's also how you win the title.

39:13 Talking about title race, Mhm.

39:15 we're back to five points clear for Arsenal over City,

39:18 plus two in goal difference,

39:21 Yeah.

39:20 but with a game more played.

39:22 Uh City will play their game in hand on Wednesday night against Palace at home

39:25 Yeah.

39:25 to bring it back to two points.

39:28 Yeah.

39:28 Where do you think that title race is now?

39:30 I think you're looking at probably 90-10.

39:32 90-10?

39:33 That high?

39:33 I I think so, mate.

39:34 I think West Ham was their toughest hurdle.

39:36 I think they'll wallop Burnley.

39:38 Really?

39:38 At home is on Monday night.

39:40 Brighton.

39:40 I think off the back of this win,

39:42 knowing that they're so close and the carrot of a Champions

39:46 League final against PSG must have that dressing room buzzing.

39:50 Yeah.

39:50 And you're playing Burnley and no disrespect because I was on comms for the game

39:53 when City beat them 1-0 and everyone thought they might beat them five or six.

39:58 yeah.

39:58 Um I think Arsenal at home, I can see them beating them by four or five.

40:02 I think if they score early,

40:03 floodgates gates could open and then title's probably theirs.

40:06 So, if I think both I think

40:08 both of them win games.

40:09 I think both of them win all their games from here.

40:11 I think so.

40:12 If City drop points against Palace on Wednesday,

40:14 Oh, it's

40:15 then Arsenal can win the title by beating Burnley on the Monday that follows.

40:20 If City win against Palace, which we said it will go back to two points,

40:24 then Arsenal will be at home to Burnley,

40:26 away to Palace three days before their Conference League final.

40:32 Yeah.

40:32 Uh City will have Bournemouth away.

40:34 Yeah, tricky.

40:35 Very tricky.

40:36 Unbeaten 16, I think.

40:38 And then at home to Villa to finish the season.

40:42 Yeah.

40:42 I think they'll I think City will win all their games.

40:44 I think Arsenal will win all their games.

40:45 I think the game against West Ham was so crucial.

40:49 And City will look back and they'll look at the Everton game where

40:54 They were in control.

40:55 They were in control and they were winning and then they collapsed.

40:58 Exactly.

40:58 But do you know what?

40:59 I think when you look at the season as a whole

41:02 and you evaluate it when and if Arsenal win the league,

41:05 which I think they'll do,

41:06 I think City win the league by about 10 points next year.

41:09 Because I think they will be so much stronger.

41:12 In a transitional year to still be fighting for a treble Yeah.

41:16 and still could walk away with at least one trophy.

41:19 FA Cup again against Chelsea could be two,

41:20 so could be a double or a treble if they manage to get over the line.

41:24 For a club and Pep to be in transition

41:27 and still be in contention to win three trophies,

41:30 they're going to be unbelievably strong next year.

41:32 Everyone, Liverpool, um Arsenal, Chelsea, whoever,

41:36 Villa, whoever's fighting for top four,

41:39 top five, uh the top first and second place,

41:43 they're all going to have to seriously improve

41:45 because City will go again in the summer.

41:47 I think Arsenal get the I think they get it done, Jules.

41:50 I think so, too.

41:51 For City, I think Guardiola will go this summer.

41:53 Whatever happens in the league, in the FA Cup, he'll

41:55 that I think if they don't win the title,

41:57 I think he'll stay one more year to win it.

41:59 He's got one more year on his contract, to be fair, but I I don't know.

42:02 I've got a feeling that he might not be there next season.

42:04 What about West Ham, your former one of your former club?

42:08 They're one point They're one point behind Spurs now,

42:10 who obviously have a game in hand to play tonight

42:12 as we record this on Monday night at home to Leeds.

42:15 Yeah.

42:15 If if Spurs were to beat Leeds,

42:17 they would be four points clear with two games to go.

42:19 Do you know what, mate?

42:20 I think about a week ago, 10 days ago, I was certain Spurs would go down.

42:25 Adamant they would go down.

42:26 Then they've just gone back-to-back wins.

42:28 Great win at Villa Park.

42:29 I never saw it coming.

42:30 That's the turning point, right?

42:31 The game at Villa Park when West Ham got beaten up Brentford 3-0.

42:34 And even the 1-0 win against Wolves,

42:35 the game before, they didn't play well, you know?

42:37 They they really didn't play well, and they looked second half in that game.

42:41 They looked as though they had no ideas,

42:43 no sort of any patterns or authority, and they got the 1-0 win.

42:47 Again, it's like Arsenal winning the title.

42:48 It's just about winning.

42:49 You know, Tottenham, just win.

42:51 And then they go to Villa Park.

42:52 I thought, not a chance they go there and win.

42:54 Best case they get a draw.

42:55 They've gone there and won.

42:56 Then West Ham obviously play Arsenal and lose that game.

42:59 They're in a great position now, Spurs.

43:00 I I I think, off the back of the two wins back-to-back,

43:03 I think they'll beat Leeds tonight.

43:05 I think they will.

43:06 And unfortunately for my old club, I think it has us down.

43:09 What would that mean to West Ham to go down?

43:11 It was the okay that Nuno they sacked Potter too late,

43:14 that Nuno didn't come up earlier cuz he's

43:16 done clearly a good job, especially at home.

43:18 Yeah.

43:19 I think all of that, even even you can go back to the appointment of Lopetegui.

43:22 Never looked like that was ever going to work for me.

43:25 I think the best thing for West Ham, if they've been here before,

43:28 and they've been down in the Championship before, so they know how to handle it.

43:32 They'll have a great chance of coming back up.

43:34 The worry, if you're West Ham or Tottenham or whoever goes,

43:38 I think now it's West Ham,

43:39 is the players or the top players Liverpool might be tempted by Jared Bowen.

43:44 Yeah, absolutely.

43:45 Fernandes might be tempted by a move.

43:47 There might be one or two players Fernandes

43:49 might be tempted by a big money move.

43:51 Somerville, yeah.

43:51 Somerville, maybe.

43:53 That's always the worry.

43:54 I had it when we went down,

43:55 and all of a sudden you've got the likes of Joe Cole and Michael

43:57 Carrick and Trevor Sinclair's and Freddie

43:59 Kanoute's and Di Canio's and Jermain Defoe's.

44:02 All these guys want to at yeah.

44:04 Not all left at the same time, but you know you're going to lose some of them.

44:07 Um and then like you get good guys in like Jobi McAnuff and Marlon Harewood

44:12 and Nigel Reo-Coker and you get good guys

44:14 in for the Championship to get you back up.

44:17 Yeah.

44:16 But you're losing the Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

44:18 quality of that.

44:18 And no disrespect to the lads, they'll they'll they'll know what I mean.

44:21 And those boys got us back up.

44:23 Um that's the hard part,

44:24 but the good thing for West Ham as a club they've been here before.

44:28 Yeah.

44:27 Like if Tottenham went, you would fear for them and then how do they handle it?

44:30 Cuz they'll all going to want to be off.

44:33 Yeah.

44:32 So panic stations, yes.

44:34 You know it's a must that you keep keep

44:37 as many players that you can and then bounce straight back.

44:41 Yeah.

44:41 It's not done though yet.

44:42 If you're a West Ham fan, you know,

44:43 anything is still possible in this Premier League season,

44:46 but it's fair to say that that defeat against Arsenal didn't

44:50 look good for the next for the rest of the season.

44:52 Right enough Arsenal and West Ham done.

44:54 What were some quickies?

44:54 Let's do it.

44:55 Just before we start the quickies,

44:56 our friends at Panini's have sent us the the official sticker

45:01 collection book for the World Cup with all your all the teams,

45:04 all the players involved.

45:06 You stick your stickers in there and we've got a few we've got a pack to open.

45:09 Shall we go?

45:11 I mean, I'm hoping as you know that I get Kylian Mbappé

45:13 or any of the French stars or any of the shiny ones.

45:19 You get a bit of Paraguay Paraguay one.

45:22 Çalhanoğlu

45:22 Oh, nice.

45:23 Mexico team Demirović Kovačić I get.

45:29 And the USA badge, look at this.

45:32 All of you Americans I've got you in the book.

45:34 Hey, I'll do a trade cuz you've got your Arsenal top on.

45:36 Bukayo Saka

45:37 OH MY GOD.

45:38 WE'LL do a trade.

45:39 Well, yeah, but what do you want with know what you got.

45:41 Okay, I I we saw that after the show.

45:43 Let's go.

45:44 Manchester City play their game in hand on Wednesday

45:46 against Crystal Palace that we just mentioned, Don.

45:48 That's 3 days before the FA Cup final at Wembley against Chelsea.

45:51 you were Pep what would you do on Wednesday?

45:54 What's the priority for you here?

45:56 Do you play strength full team,

45:58 full strength against Palace on Wednesday and maybe rotate a bit

46:02 for the FA Cup final or the other way around.

46:04 I It could even be a bit of a hybrid.

46:07 Where you rest Yeah, rest one or two players.

46:10 I don't think he will though.

46:11 I think Pep's one of these managers where he plays

46:14 a strong 11 and he treats every competition with respect.

46:17 Um he's played Haaland in some FA Cup games early

46:20 on when I thought surely it was Exeter they beat 10.

46:23 Was it Exeter they beat 10 and Haaland played?

46:24 started the game.

46:25 Yeah.

46:26 couldn't see him playing in that one but he did.

46:28 No, I think he'll probably go close with full strength as possible.

46:31 I think he's got four games in 12 days now.

46:32 Obviously midweek, FA Cup final, midweek and last game of the Premier League.

46:37 on the outside of outside world probably think right you

46:40 need might need to tweak and you might need to rest.

46:42 I think he looks at it Pep and he wants to win every single game

46:45 and he'll still believe and he'll still believe

46:47 that there's a twist in the Premier League.

46:49 He'll still believe so I think he'll I think Balon

46:51 maybe I don't know like a Malacia someone might come in.

46:54 Um maybe Ake um but I think eight or nine

47:00 of his first teamers will start in that game.

47:01 I think he'll go very very strong.

47:02 let's see what they do.

47:03 Uh with their win against Brest PSG are

47:06 virtually I did not know you were celebrating there.

47:08 Yeah, man.

47:08 You won it Jules, well done.

47:11 I sound a bit of I can I can hear a bit of sarcasm in your

47:14 No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

47:15 I mean I seen the team that you put out.

47:17 I mean I mean you're obviously resting for the Champions League final.

47:20 Everybody's resting.

47:20 I mean he's been rotating a lot in the in the league.

47:23 Six points clear with two games to go.

47:24 Massive much better goal difference than Lens where they travel on Wednesday

47:29 for that you know infamous game in hand that they brought up postponed game.

47:33 He hasn't been like straightforward in the league because he rotated a lot.

47:37 He played a lot of the B team

47:38 at times like last night for example against Brest.

47:41 Uh I guess the most important is to win it.

47:43 It's five league game five league titles in a row.

47:45 going to ask you how many?

47:47 Five.

47:47 Which I'm not sure again is great for the league.

47:50 Uh but this is a very special team and we've said it before on the back

47:54 of last season and the the six trophies

47:56 that they had they could go again and you know,

47:59 win the Champions League in that final against Arsenal.

48:00 So, it's been good.

48:03 It hasn't been plain sailing,

48:05 but I think it's been very good and they are pretty much there in the league,

48:07 so well done to Luis Enrique again and to the players.

48:11 Another trophy for them in the cabinet.

48:13 Exactly.

48:13 won the Club World Cup in the summer.

48:14 It was like they were going into that tournament with four trophies in the bag.

48:16 I mean, incredible job he's done.

48:18 Wonderful stuff.

48:19 Chelsea stopped their terrible run of six losses in a row in the Premier League,

48:24 but only to get a draw at Liverpool whose players and manager were booed off.

48:27 by Anfield.

48:28 Don, are they both in crisis or who is more in crisis than the other?

48:33 That's a great question.

48:35 Um, I think Chelsea are more in crisis.

48:37 they're 19th in the table.

48:38 I know.

48:39 Um, they can't win a game, haven't even got a manager,

48:41 the board's getting criticized left, right,

48:42 and center because of the model and everything they've done.

48:45 Do you know what?

48:46 It It was one of them when I was watching

48:48 the Forest game and Forest turned them over big time.

48:51 I couldn't help but take my brain to the Liverpool game at the weekend.

48:56 I mean, obviously the game after and I thought they'll get a draw there.

48:58 It reminded me of like when Spurs won by a win,

49:01 but they'll go to Anfield and nick a point.

49:03 But what does that say about Liverpool?

49:05 And what would you do with Slot?

49:06 Would you keep him?

49:07 Do you know the honest fans are clearly unhappy.

49:09 Yeah, the honest conversation that I think FSG and the board need to have

49:13 with themselves because we're in a summer where

49:15 there's going to be so many managers available.

49:18 So, you cannot lose this window.

49:20 So, have the conversation.

49:22 Is there a better manager out there than Slot?

49:24 If there is, change him.

49:26 Cuz this season has been it's been awful.

49:29 The football's been terrible.

49:31 Um, they've been boring to watch.

49:33 The game against Chelsea was like a testimonial game

49:35 which over the years that's been like elite level game.

49:38 Liverpool-Chelsea, Champions League semi's, like going for titles.

49:41 It was It was dull.

49:43 Um, so you have the conversation.

49:45 Is it Xabi Alonso to get the best out of Frimpong and Wirtz?

49:48 Maybe that's the way to go.

49:49 Or do you say to Arne Slot,

49:52 are you capable and are you confident

49:54 that with Richard Hughes and Michael Edwards in the summer,

49:57 you're going to do a proper rebuild?

49:59 Because the transition.

50:01 Exactly.

50:01 And and this season might be one of them where you go right.

50:04 Won the league that the season before.

50:06 Um transitional period this year,

50:08 finished in the Champions League investment in the summer, kick on.

50:12 Go again.

50:12 Give him the last chance.

50:14 That has to be the last chance.

50:15 And the but the trouble with that is if Xabi Alonso gets a club,

50:19 um and the Glasners and the Marco Silvas

50:21 and the and the the Pochettinos of this world and the yeah,

50:24 all these guys get a job and then you you're Liverpool and you go into the first

50:28 five games of next season and Slot gets off to a bad start, you sack him.

50:33 Yeah.

50:33 Where do you go from there?

50:34 I know.

50:34 So I think the conversation is is there someone better out there?

50:37 If there is, then that might be the conversation.

50:40 That might be the way to go.

50:43 Yeah.

50:43 Uh Bayern bounced back after a loss against PSG,

50:45 but what happened to Harry Kane?

50:47 He missed a pen, which should never happen in the Bundesliga.

50:50 Oh, took some sort of weird

50:52 so 24 of 24 he's scored before.

50:54 First miss in the Bundesliga, that is.

50:57 If you look back at the footage, Seen it.

50:59 the spot was scuffed by one of the Wolfsburg midfielder,

51:03 which you know, you often see now somebody else with the ball,

51:06 not the taker, and then you see a lot

51:08 of the players who have the penalty who protecting that spot.

51:13 Yes.

51:12 Bayern didn't do that and I think that's a bit on them.

51:15 Yeah.

51:15 And I don't like it cuz you should not be doing this.

51:17 It's not It's not fair.

51:19 And Harry as soon as he hit it, he looked at the spot.

51:22 He knew something.

51:23 Cuz his foot his foot went missed it like 20 ft.

51:26 Like it's like that's that was unusual.

51:27 I know.

51:27 They still won against Wolfsburg 1-0.

51:30 At least he scored.

51:31 But yeah, that I think Harry will remember that one in a long long time.

51:35 But we can from Milan done.

51:36 You were commentating on that game here in the UK beating Atalanta.

51:40 Well, there were also wins for Juventus, Roma and Como,

51:43 which leaves us a very exciting,

51:45 to be fair, title No, Champions League places Yeah.

51:48 Napoli can still be caught.

51:49 They play They play Bologna tonight, yeah.

51:51 Five teams in five points.

51:52 Yeah.

51:53 Um it was an incredible game because there

51:54 was protest before the game at San Siro.

51:57 Uh the ultras weren't happy.

51:59 Yeah.

51:59 And then within 5 minutes Milan are 1-0 down.

52:01 Within half an hour they're 2-0 down.

52:03 And then I think just shy of an hour they were 3-0 down at Atalanta.

52:05 And Palladino's men absolutely played them off the park.

52:09 It was three Yeah, it could have been five.

52:10 It was three but it could have been four.

52:12 And then And And then the scoreline 3-2 in the end flatters Milan

52:15 a little bit because it was They scored a couple of late goals.

52:17 And Conk done quite well coming off the bench at half time.

52:20 But there was nothing apart from Conk and Pavlovic

52:22 to lean on thinking what's the future here for Milan.

52:25 And

52:26 It's worrying, I think, no?

52:27 And yeah, but I think from Milan's point of view

52:29 that the mentality in the before the game should have been,

52:32 right, who can we reel in?

52:34 Can we try and get a little bit closer to Napoli?

52:36 Can we get a little bit closer or go above Juve?

52:39 Now all of a sudden with that loss, as you said, Roma good win, Como good win.

52:43 So now the pressure's on Milan with two games to go.

52:45 And Allegri, are you confident you can get Champions League football?

52:48 Because of what I saw last night, it was an awful watch.

52:52 And it just took me back to yours to watching the great Milan sides.

52:55 And watching some of these players thinking,

52:57 how far has this club fallen on and off the pitch?

53:00 Yeah.

53:01 Yeah, that's They They They honestly were were nowhere near it.

53:04 Another loss for Atletico Madrid, Jules.

53:07 Yeah, I mean and this time you can't say they played the kids or the the B

53:10 team and that's why they they they they dropped points again and failed again.

53:15 This time against Celta Vigo at the Metropolitano as well.

53:18 So you know, in their own stadium.

53:21 1-0.

53:21 If you haven't seen the goal from Borja Iglesias,

53:24 go and watch his goal of the season One of the goals of the weekend for me.

53:27 Where he dinks it over Oblak, the keeper.

53:30 It's amazing.

53:32 But I guess for Atletico Madrid after losing

53:34 to Arsenal in a Champions League semi-final second leg,

53:38 even if he kept a very strong team,

53:40 they're probably, you know, switched off already.

53:42 They they guaranteed Champions League football for next season.

53:45 While we'd say though, Antoine Griezmann got subbed off again on the hour mark,

53:49 which is something that has been happening regularly.

53:51 But because Atletico have nothing to play for anymore,

53:53 because they're guaranteed to be in the Champions League,

53:55 because this is the last few games that he's

53:58 have with this team now before going to MLS,

54:01 I I was watching I was a bit disappointed

54:04 because I thought leave him on the pitch, please.

54:05 Just leave him.

54:06 Would there be a scenario where you take him off to get a standing ovation?

54:09 So they did not feel they did not feel that way.

54:11 You know, and they've got still a home game to come,

54:14 so he would have another chance and that would be beautiful next weekend.

54:17 But I thought from Simeone that was maybe a little bit harsh.

54:21 Bruno Fernandes won the FWA or the Football

54:24 Writers Association Player of the Year, Don, ahead of Declan Rice.

54:28 While Bernie Shaw won it in the women's game.

54:32 Is fair, you happy?

54:33 Would you have had Rice first and Bruno second for the men maybe?

54:36 Shaw, I mean, she's been at the top level for years, isn't she?

54:38 I mean, what a player.

54:39 You know, I think on Bruno, I think he deserves it.

54:42 Um I've heard a lot of sort of rhetoric where people have latched onto well,

54:45 they haven't played that many games.

54:46 He's played half a season.

54:47 I don't I don't buy that at all.

54:49 I think he's had a season where he's

54:50 trying to break Premier League records with his assists.

54:53 Um God forbid where Man United would be if they hadn't sold him.

54:58 Absolutely.

54:58 And especially the numbers that he's produced.

55:00 And I think he's matured a lot because I wasn't really

55:02 a fan of his antics probably two or three years ago,

55:04 but I think he's he's convinced a lot of people like

55:07 myself where you start to look at him and go captain material.

55:10 He's starting to act like a captain.

55:11 He's a leader.

55:12 He's not throwing his arms up like he

55:13 did at Anfield when they were getting beaten,

55:15 giving it the old I want to come off.

55:17 He looks like a completely different player.

55:18 So yeah, I get I get the argument.

55:20 I get the argument of Raya or Declan Rice.

55:24 I think Bruno deserves it in my opinion.

55:26 I agree.

55:26 I think Rice could have easily won it, too.

55:29 I think the thing with Rice, which we've seen before,

55:31 remember the 2018 Ballon d'Or where the Liverpool

55:34 boys had won the the Champions League in 2019,

55:37 but there was a lot of votes split between Salah,

55:39 Van Dijk, and Mané, which I think in the end cost them.

55:41 I think what cost Rice in this is that a lot of people voted for Raya Right.

55:47 or Saliba.

55:49 Yeah.

55:49 And I think even some I think voted for Saka to the point

55:52 that that took away some of the votes that could have gone to him.

55:56 Yeah.

55:56 Whereas for Bruno, it was all like him.

55:58 Nobody else at United could have got some votes.

56:00 That's what does my head in about the Ballon d'Or.

56:02 I know.

56:03 I hate the Ballon d'Or cuz it should It should just

56:04 be It doesn't matter if you're in a Champions League final.

56:07 Who do you think's the best player this season?

56:09 All right, it's him.

56:10 I know.

56:10 Vote for him.

56:10 I know.

56:10 I know.

56:11 I know.

56:11 I know.

56:11 I know.

56:12 Uh we're halfway through the Champions League playoffs, Jules, semi-finals.

56:15 Are you Are you awake?

56:17 Yeah.

56:17 Or are you asleep?

56:17 What's happened?

56:18 No, well, that's the thing.

56:19 I love the playoffs.

56:21 Same.

56:21 But, it feels that those semi-finals are very Yeah,

56:23 after year it seemed that the first leg is often a nil-nil draw.

56:26 I've I've played in them.

56:27 They're horrible.

56:28 Is it You You just don't want to give anything away

56:30 to lose that first leg, yeah.

56:31 So, you you you end up going into them going,

56:33 "We know there's a second leg subconsciously.

56:35 Let's not lose this one." Would it be

56:36 better to just have it over one game, maybe?

56:39 It'd be a good shout, actually, but I mean, the second legs are lively.

56:42 Yeah.

56:42 Yeah, it's true.

56:43 Always.

56:43 Yeah, I guess you're right.

56:44 I think I I I think it's very much

56:46 standard where you can look at these games and go, "Oh, nil-nil, bit boring.

56:50 Second legs will not be." Yeah.

56:51 That's Cuz then there's a there's drama on it.

56:53 There's jeopardy.

56:54 Yeah.

56:54 So, Hull and Millwall first where I had a nil-nil draw at it at Hull.

57:00 The second leg will be, I think,

57:01 on Monday night again in a few hours as we record this in London in you know,

57:07 at the New Den for Millwall to try to make it to the final.

57:10 if Millwall come up, Jules, I'll be I'll I'll be unsackable.

57:13 I know.

57:14 Cuz I'll have played for about 30% of the Premier League teams.

57:17 You can't get rid of me.

57:18 All your clothes are there,

57:19 and we wish Millwall and Hull City obviously the best.

57:22 The other semi-final is between Middlesbrough and Southampton

57:26 was nil-nil at the Riverside on Saturday,

57:29 and then that second leg is on Tuesday night, and that's our next question.

57:33 Because we can talk about Middlesbrough vs.

57:35 Southampton, and that first leg where Middlesbrough played really,

57:38 really well, just couldn't score, which is a bit of a story of their season,

57:41 really, since uh since Helberg arrived.

57:44 But, the big story here is the spy game.

57:47 It's incredible.

57:49 Just before you gave us your view on it, Don,

57:51 the story, if you've missed it, if you live under a rock,

57:54 was that uh Middlesbrough caught a Southampton staff member spying

58:00 on their training before the semi-final first leg on Saturday.

58:05 The floor is yours now.

58:06 What do you make of it?

58:07 since then, I mean, do you remember when Leeds done it in Bielsa?

58:10 Bielsa actually paid the fine.

58:11 So, he he held his hands up, and he actually paid the money the fine,

58:14 which is incredible, cuz that's just like that's typical Bielsa.

58:17 But, the fallout from it, I think,

58:19 from what I've read, is Southampton have blamed like an intern.

58:22 Yeah, saying that they knew nothing about it.

58:23 of intern has got the money to start getting drones and cameras and all sorts?

58:27 I don't buy that a sec.

58:29 Me neither.

58:30 Me neither.

58:32 The other fallout, which I was reading or hearing

58:34 on the radio as I was coming in today,

58:36 a lot of other Championship teams now are studying their CCTV

58:40 to find out exactly if if Southampton have done this before.

58:44 So, it's it's incredible.

58:45 really believe I know we don't know, so we're only speculating here.

58:49 But, would you think that somebody does

58:52 this without the manager knowledge or the club knowledge?

58:55 It's not possible, right?

58:56 No, I don't think Cuz that's their defense.

58:57 They're saying like we knew nothing about the CCTV is on his own.

59:00 But, then you put it in team.

59:01 But, then you sort of do, because let's say I'm the intern,

59:04 and I take it upon myself to go and do it.

59:06 And I go and get the footage,

59:07 I've still got to give it to someone senior at the club.

59:10 So, someone's going, "Oh, we'll have that, then.

59:12 Yeah, we'll have a little bit of a look at that."

59:15 Uh because it couldn't be just a guy Just just do a Bielsa.

59:18 But, then what what should be the the punishment, then?

59:20 That's the thing, because you can't dock them points cuz you're in the playoffs.

59:24 So, you ban the manager, or But, again, you have to prove

59:28 That's what I'm saying.

59:29 I think it's probably a monetary fine.

59:31 Yeah.

59:32 Just Is that enough though?

59:32 That's the thing.

59:33 I don't know.

59:34 What if Southampton knock out Middlesbrough and then go and get promoted?

59:38 It's It's unbelievably messy.

59:40 I'm not It's one of these where you

59:42 have that conversation and you go what's the punishment?

59:47 Yeah.

59:47 And you're like it's unprecedented apart from the Bielsa one where he went back.

59:50 He He went I done it.

59:52 That's the fine.

59:53 Even in the other leagues don't I promise you I

59:55 don't remember a case where something like that happened somewhere else.

1:00:00 It's It's It's crazy.

1:00:02 It's probably a monetary fine and give the money to charity.

1:00:06 Just Just Just fine the football club.

1:00:08 I don't think you fine the manager.

1:00:11 Yeah.

1:00:10 Cuz the manager might say nothing to do

1:00:12 with me even though I probably watched the tape.

1:00:14 You ain't going to fine the kid.

1:00:16 You ain't got any money.

1:00:17 Yeah.

1:00:17 That's true, man.

1:00:18 That's very true.

1:00:19 It's It's incredible.

1:00:20 It is crazy.

1:00:21 Uh what about the race for the Champions League places in the Bundesliga, Jules?

1:00:24 All right.

1:00:24 So, another crazy weekend on a bit like what we talked about for Serie A.

1:00:28 There's one game left.

1:00:30 One game week left in the Bundesliga last next

1:00:32 weekend where a lot of things can still happen.

1:00:34 We've got basically Stuttgart in fourth.

1:00:37 61 points.

1:00:38 They will play Frankfurt away.

1:00:39 Hoffenheim also have 61 points in fifth.

1:00:42 They will play away at Gladbach.

1:00:43 Then you've got Leverkusen in sixth with 58.

1:00:46 So, three points behind.

1:00:47 So, Leverkusen need to win and hope for one of Stuttgart or Hoffenheim to lose.

1:00:53 Uh Leverkusen losing at the weekend which was

1:00:55 a really bad one when Stuttgart and Hoffenheim both won.

1:00:58 It's been really really good.

1:00:59 I think this has been a good season in in the Bundesliga to be fair even

1:01:02 if Bayern kind of ran away with it a little bit and Vinnie done an amazing job.

1:01:06 But it's been great.

1:01:07 So, it will go down to the wire for those Champions League places next weekend.

1:01:12 Also for the last uh playoff position and relegation position

1:01:18 as well between Wolfsburg and Heidenheim where both on 26 points.

1:01:21 So, it's all down there.

1:01:23 Either one of them will go straight down and the other will play

1:01:26 in the playoff against the team that finished third in the Bundesliga 2.

1:01:29 So, really, really good things.

1:01:31 If you like the Bundesliga, you can watch it on ESPN next weekend.

1:01:33 There's really a lot Great league.

1:01:35 Great league, isn't it?

1:01:36 Great, great league.

1:01:37 Great season for them.

1:01:39 Talking about Champions League, Don, here in the Premier League as well,

1:01:41 Bournemouth is still chasing top five, which would be incredible for them.

1:01:44 They currently sixth after they win at Fulham this weekend.

1:01:47 Yeah.

1:01:48 Well, it's funny because six might be

1:01:50 enough to get you Champions League football.

1:01:51 Villa Villa have got to win the Europa League and finish fifth.

1:01:54 That's the That's the That's the scenario.

1:01:56 Um so they Which is where they are right now.

1:01:58 Exactly.

1:01:58 So, Liverpool are not getting away from them and and Villa had

1:02:00 a another poor performance off the back of a great semi-final against Forest,

1:02:05 so that was a little bit understandable, but Bournemouth,

1:02:07 Brighton, they're all sort of chasing that fifth in a way, yeah.

1:02:11 Brentford, another one.

1:02:12 Um Bournemouth have been the story with Iraola.

1:02:14 I mean, to lose a goalkeeper half Well, majority of your back four.

1:02:20 Yeah.

1:02:19 To find players like Rayan and Krupi,

1:02:21 who probably Barcelona are checking out the minute, find young player.

1:02:24 Iraola's improved um the majority of players that he's worked under.

1:02:29 They're a great story.

1:02:30 Limited budget, data, analysis.

1:02:33 Um it'd be amazing story if they got Champions League football.

1:02:36 I agree.

1:02:37 it'd be be phenomenal.

1:02:38 I would put If his stock's If his stock's not high enough, Iraola,

1:02:42 put some serious teams into the conversation where

1:02:45 he has to be a manager that we've got to interview or check out because what

1:02:50 Like the job that he's done has been incredible.

1:02:52 So, they've got City at home and they go away

1:02:54 at Forest for the last the last two games of

1:02:57 So, they're going to have to win them both,

1:02:59 which is a little bit I mean, I say unlikely.

1:03:01 I mean, they could turn City over.

1:03:02 Yeah, hopefully so.

1:03:05 are probably not.

1:03:06 So, you probably are looking at the top five

1:03:08 as it stands that's going to get Champions League football,

1:03:10 but to be in the conversations, it I know.

1:03:12 it's still a great thing.

1:03:13 I feel a little bit?

1:03:14 I know he's announced that he was leaving off contract,

1:03:17 but if he takes them into Champions League, would he would he not want to be

1:03:20 there for when they are in the Champions League?

1:03:22 And by the way, they Or you can say, "Yeah, what a job I've done.

1:03:27 My stock is my stock is at its highest it's

1:03:28 probably ever going to be." You know what I mean?

1:03:29 Unless the club can kick on, but I stadium holds what?

1:03:32 12 and 1/2, yeah?

1:03:33 In the Champions League.

1:03:34 Which is a shame for them cuz they could probably fit 40,

1:03:37 50 easily in the Champions League if they play,

1:03:41 you know, like Bayern or PSG or Real Madrid or, you know, like It'd be amazing.

1:03:45 The worst story of this season.

1:03:46 I know.

1:03:47 I mean, talking of Champions League, another theme in this time in Ligue 1.

1:03:50 Yeah, incredible.

1:03:50 We mentioned the the the top two and the PSG

1:03:53 uh winning the title in front of of Lens,

1:03:56 uh but behind them uh is pretty incredible

1:03:59 as well because same for, as we said in England,

1:04:02 in Germany, and now in France as well,

1:04:04 Lille are third uh with 61 points, Lyon fourth with 60.

1:04:09 So, fourth will take you in the Champions League qualifiers, though,

1:04:11 not directly to the league phase, but third will take you there.

1:04:14 And then Rennes on 59.

1:04:16 So, 59, 60, 61, only two of them can make third and fourth.

1:04:20 Obviously, Rennes will go to Marseille who are sixth

1:04:23 but can't really make it to finishing third or fourth.

1:04:27 So, it's just incredible.

1:04:28 And again, in France, last game week is next weekend.

1:04:31 All the game kick off at the same time on Sunday night.

1:04:34 Even that, if you can watch it, will be very spectacular and very special.

1:04:38 So, And fallouts everywhere at Marseille.

1:04:40 Aubameyang setting off fire extinguishers.

1:04:44 Extinguisher everywhere getting dropped for the game.

1:04:47 Uh Greenwood not talking to anybody, not the manager,

1:04:49 not the sporting director, not the rest of the squad.

1:04:52 It's just exploding.

1:04:53 But for now, they could be in Europa League,

1:04:55 which I think even if the aim was Champions League,

1:04:58 the objective was Champions League,

1:05:00 I think considering how crazy the season has gone,

1:05:03 they will take Europa League for next season.

1:05:04 Yeah.

1:05:05 Tottenham host Leeds in a few hours on Monday night.

1:05:08 We mentioned that already earlier, Don.

1:05:10 Leeds are safe for now after West Ham's loss against Arsenal.

1:05:14 Spurs have a great chance.

1:05:17 I know.

1:05:18 You don't think that Spurs can can bottle this.

1:05:20 No, be Spurs.

1:05:21 No, I I just can't see it.

1:05:23 I mean, listen, my predictions have been way off in the last week.

1:05:25 I I Honestly, honestly,

1:05:26 I thought there's not a chance that Spurs go to Villa Park.

1:05:29 I said Leeds would go down like 4 weeks ago, 5 weeks ago.

1:05:33 Brentford going down.

1:05:33 We'll keep Andrews.

1:05:35 So, my predictions have gone this week this season.

1:05:37 They've been terrible.

1:05:38 But, for Spurs to go back-to-back wins, this has not been there, Jules.

1:05:41 When you're in the bottom three and you're there for a reason

1:05:44 because you've got no consistency and you can't win games,

1:05:47 you can't score, and you're just all over the place.

1:05:49 I've been there myself.

1:05:50 And very rarely when when you're in the bottom three,

1:05:53 do you ever go back-to-back wins?

1:05:54 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:05:55 Yeah, yeah, true.

1:05:56 Like that's why you're there.

1:05:57 And they've got a scrappy win against Wolves,

1:05:59 terrible performance, but they won.

1:06:01 Then they go and beat Villa with a really good performance, great win.

1:06:04 I think with momentum and West Ham losing against Arsenal,

1:06:07 I think Spurs beat Leeds tonight.

1:06:09 Yeah, I agree.

1:06:10 I don't think that Leeds will be on the beach or anything like that.

1:06:12 I just think Spurs have got it where And people might say the home record,

1:06:14 only two wins this season.

1:06:15 I think you you park that, you you you bin it,

1:06:18 and you more or less say to your players tonight,

1:06:20 if you're De Zerbi, win tonight, lads.

1:06:23 Yeah.

1:06:23 Every chance we're going to be safe.

1:06:24 It puts too much pressure on cuz their goal

1:06:25 difference is better than West Ham at the same time.

1:06:27 So, it's almost like if you win, they're five points clear.

1:06:30 Yeah.

1:06:30 So, I agree.

1:06:31 The chances are it's going to be done.

1:06:33 Uh going back to Serie A, Inter got an easy win against Lazio,

1:06:36 Jules, which is perfect before their Coppa Italia final against Lazio.

1:06:39 Would you have like that in a in a season, Don,

1:06:41 where you play in the league the team that you face 3 days later in the cup?

1:06:46 cuz it's it's it's it's too familiar.

1:06:48 It's too familiar.

1:06:49 It's it's like when you go like we've beat them,

1:06:51 there's every chance they're going to beat us.

1:06:53 I know.

1:06:53 So, first round, Inter won, as you said, easily 3-0 against Lazio.

1:06:57 Lautaro scored, Thuram was very good again.

1:07:00 Um but, they meet again on Wednesday night in the Coppa Italia final,

1:07:05 same Inter against Lazio.

1:07:07 Um and I agree with you.

1:07:09 Watching that game and Inter were very good, much better than Lazio.

1:07:13 Yeah.

1:07:13 I thought sorry he's done a great job there.

1:07:15 They had no investment whatsoever and a transfer embargo.

1:07:19 I mean only I think sorry could get Lazio into a a cup

1:07:23 final and until about a month ago trying to compete for European football.

1:07:27 And they will be massively underdogs Lazio.

1:07:29 Make no mistake about that against Inter who have been really good lately.

1:07:33 I've already won the title.

1:07:36 They could win the double which hasn't happened to them for a long time.

1:07:39 I checked.

1:07:39 I can't remember now the the start

1:07:41 And and Kivu when you go back to the start of the season

1:07:43 the first three games he had he lost two and he was under pressure.

1:07:46 Massive pressure even later on even after

1:07:47 the Buddha glimpse really you know elimination.

1:07:50 So he's done a great job.

1:07:52 We'll we'll we'll know on on Wednesday if they can do the double.

1:07:55 They met the pope which maybe helped them Yeah.

1:07:58 a few days ago as the Serie A you know

1:08:01 winners and and champions which I think is really cool.

1:08:04 I love the fact that the pope can just say "Inter,

1:08:06 do you fancy coming in?" "Let's come for a cup of tea."

1:08:10 Aston Villa dropped more points after a draw at Crystal Palace on Sunday.

1:08:14 We mentioned that a little bit.

1:08:15 They could not miss out on Champions

1:08:17 League and top five finish don't could they?

1:08:18 No, I I don't think they will because I think

1:08:20 they'll beat Freiburg in the final of the Europa League.

1:08:22 So that's obviously one avenue but

1:08:23 But in the league they're four points clear of Bournemouth.

1:08:25 I mean I think they've got enough.

1:08:28 Four points with two games to go.

1:08:29 Exactly.

1:08:30 It should be and as we said Bournemouth play Man City.

1:08:33 That's it.

1:08:33 Um but they're going to need one more win to secure

1:08:35 it but I think if you're Villa I I think the season

1:08:38 they've had with a top class manager in I Emery

1:08:40 and he's so passionate and he's so easy to to relate to.

1:08:44 I think he's a he's an amazing manager.

1:08:47 Um I think they'll get Champions League football.

1:08:49 I'm pretty much certain they'll get it within top five.

1:08:53 Yeah.

1:08:53 I'm I'm sort of I'm really confident they'll beat Freiburg.

1:08:56 They play Liverpool and City in the league.

1:08:58 They have two games.

1:08:59 So that's where that's where Villa fans are

1:09:01 just panicking cuz they're looking at the fixtures.

1:09:03 Because you you go Liverpool City.

1:09:05 Oh, what if we lost both of them?

1:09:07 Yeah.

1:09:07 I mean, Liverpool would have to put a performance in for a start.

1:09:09 I Villa Park especially, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:09:11 Yeah, so it's like yeah, I I I think they'll get it done, mate.

1:09:15 Yeah.

1:09:15 A new twist in the Scottish Premier League, Jewels.

1:09:17 I watched Hearts on What was it?

1:09:19 Saturday night?

1:09:20 And Celtic seen off Rangers in the tense Old Firm.

1:09:22 I mean, what a season.

1:09:24 We have to say again that we said that, you know,

1:09:25 often when you're on the show as well,

1:09:27 it's been an incredible season in the Scottish Premiership, really.

1:09:31 Hearts haven't won the league since 1960.

1:09:34 I mean, nobody outside of Celtic and Rangers

1:09:37 have won it since Sir Alex and Aberdeen,

1:09:38 obviously, in '85, I think it was, or '86, something like that.

1:09:42 thing if they win the league.

1:09:43 I think it livens Celtic and Rangers up.

1:09:46 Absolutely.

1:09:46 Because as much as Hearts deserve credit and the way they invested

1:09:51 the money and the arrival of Tony Bloom in the summer, great.

1:09:55 It's also because Rangers and Celtic have been chaotic.

1:09:58 For years, for years.

1:10:00 Absolutely.

1:10:00 It's almost like, right, there's a new contender here.

1:10:03 We can't just rely on one of us being just better than the other.

1:10:07 Exactly.

1:10:07 So, the standards in in Scotland improve.

1:10:10 And we saw Hearts dropping points against Motherwell.

1:10:12 And Motherwell are a good footballing side.

1:10:13 Really good footballing sides.

1:10:14 There's a game in There's a game midweek and then next weekend,

1:10:17 which would be the last one of the season,

1:10:19 is Celtic against Hearts at Celtic Park.

1:10:22 So, if you have no plans on Sunday,

1:10:24 I know there's a lot of football that we say to you you should watch,

1:10:26 yeah, but this is it.

1:10:27 This is the end of the season.

1:10:28 It's very exciting.

1:10:31 everybody.

1:10:30 It's just like you got one game.

1:10:32 Winner takes all.

1:10:33 Exactly.

1:10:33 It should be like that.

1:10:34 It would be like a like a league final,

1:10:36 if you want, between Hearts and Celtic, Celtic and Hearts.

1:10:39 So, yeah, make sure make sure you watch this if you can.

1:10:43 Done.

1:10:43 Galatasaray, uh well done to them.

1:10:45 They've crowned champions in Turkey after their win against Antalyaspor.

1:10:48 And another player that Great performance by the way, you like Osimhen.

1:10:53 I think fourth fourth title in a row for Galatasaray.

1:10:55 mate.

1:10:55 what Yeah, I mean, great job they've done, um, but Osimhen is just a I love him.

1:11:00 I know.

1:11:00 I I I love him.

1:11:02 It's funny to be the summer where he moves away from there and come to England.

1:11:06 well, I hope so.

1:11:07 I mean, I listen, I'm I'm a Newcastle fan, as you know.

1:11:09 I would take him in a heartbeat in Newcastle.

1:11:11 I think he could be a cult hero there.

1:11:13 Yeah, I agree.

1:11:13 But it's whether it's whether Newcastle are even on his radar.

1:11:15 He might have ideas of of playing at a much higher level,

1:11:18 and rightly so, because he's an amazing player.

1:11:20 He ticks every single box.

1:11:22 You're going to buy a guy in that's going to work his socks off.

1:11:25 Yeah.

1:11:25 You're going to buy a guy that's physically very strong.

1:11:27 You're going to get a guy that's great in the air.

1:11:29 You've got a guy that can score spectacular goals.

1:11:32 Um, I don't really buy these He's had a few knocks every now and again.

1:11:35 I think he gets his knock knocks because he's not soft.

1:11:38 It's cuz he puts himself in a difficult situation.

1:11:40 Do you know what I mean?

1:11:40 He fractured his cheekbone.

1:11:41 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:11:42 He's in Napoli, so he's a brave guy.

1:11:44 Um, no, I love him, Joe.

1:11:45 I I I'd love to see him in England.

1:11:47 I think he'd be amazing.

1:11:49 Yeah.

1:11:49 Um, and then the FA Cup final's coming up.

1:11:52 Yeah, we know the lineup for the women's FA Cup final, uh,

1:11:55 Wembley on the 29th, I think it is, or something like that, or the 30th.

1:12:01 Uh, Brighton beat Liverpool 3-2 in the first semi-final,

1:12:04 coming back from 2-0 down.

1:12:05 Brighton, by the way,

1:12:06 on top of the stadium that they're going to build for the women's team,

1:12:09 only for the women's team, uh,

1:12:11 having a really good season, great momentum for them.

1:12:14 Amazing achievement to reach the FA Cup final.

1:12:16 And then the other semi-final was Chelsea against City.

1:12:20 Yeah.

1:12:20 Again, I think the fourth or fifth time that they face each other this season.

1:12:23 And again, City came back from behind in extra time to win 3-2.

1:12:28 Bunny Shaw, that we mentioned, player of the year, again with the decisive goal.

1:12:32 Incredible performance, incredible game, I think.

1:12:34 Great Great publicity for the women's game.

1:12:37 And then, so we'll be We'll have Brighton against Man City in the FA Cup final,

1:12:41 and City potentially in for the double.

1:12:43 Don, remember Rochdale?

1:12:45 Heartbreaking draw against York, which prevented them from going uh,

1:12:49 for automatic promotion from the National League to League Two.

1:12:52 Well, they're still going to go going to go up.

1:12:54 I love it.

1:12:55 I I love these stories when you see a team go back into the Football League,

1:12:58 and it feels like for Rochdale, it just feels like karma.

1:13:02 Yeah, it feels like And the And the And the drama of the game

1:13:05 when they're 2-0 down and Boreham Wood going up,

1:13:08 and you think, "What a story that is?" Yeah, yeah.

1:13:09 Let's lean on the Boreham Wood story.

1:13:11 What What What What story that is, them coming into the Football League.

1:13:14 And then they come back and win on pens.

1:13:16 Yeah.

1:13:15 And it's just like 97th minute equalizer to get to the great league.

1:13:20 Yeah.

1:13:20 And then if Rochdale stay up, it might be one of them where it's like

1:13:22 a Wrexham where that was the season you remember.

1:13:25 Yeah, yeah.

1:13:25 Coming from the National League back in the Football

1:13:27 League and then sort of building from there.

1:13:29 What a story.

1:13:30 So, talking of building from there,

1:13:31 Marie-Louise Eta wins her first game in charge, Jules.

1:13:33 I know.

1:13:34 Remember she was appointed as the Union Union Berlin manager,

1:13:37 the first woman ever to manage in the top five leagues.

1:13:40 Uh big five European leagues.

1:13:41 And after one draw and two defeats, she finally won away at Mainz,

1:13:44 who, you know, we're doing quite well, 3-1, which is really good.

1:13:48 They've got their last game of the season next week.

1:13:50 And in the Bundesliga, she will be back at home with the team against Augsburg.

1:13:53 So, potentially, you know, going back-to-back.

1:13:56 But it's good.

1:13:56 I think it was very good for Union to appoint her in the first place.

1:13:59 And good to see.

1:14:01 Good for her to finally get a first win as well.

1:14:03 And they played They played really well.

1:14:04 So, I think she's a really good coach.

1:14:05 I don't I don't know if she would get

1:14:07 the job permanently at the end of the season,

1:14:09 but certainly she's giving it a good go with that win.

1:14:11 So, Don, we'll finish on that note.

1:14:13 Thank you so much for coming down.

1:14:15 I love having you on the show.

1:14:16 Change it up.

1:14:17 No problem.

1:14:17 Come back next week.

1:14:18 I'll have another one.

1:14:19 Probably a PSG one.

1:14:20 You know, after we win another Champions League.

1:14:21 PSG new one.

1:14:22 Oh, I knew you would like that for your boys as well.

1:14:25 Definitely, it's coming your way.

1:14:26 Thank you for listening to us, watching us.

1:14:28 We'll be back on Thursday.

1:14:29 Gab will be back as well.

1:14:30 And like he always says, love the game,

1:14:33 love your neighbor, love yourself, or something like that.

1:14:52 Hey.