WHY DO NBA FANS HATE THE THUNDER? | Basketball Island

0:00 unbeaten so far in these playoffs.

0:02 They swept the Suns.

0:03 They swept the Lakers.

0:04 It's looking like another Thunder title might be kind of inevitable.

0:09 But Fab, let's start with you.

0:10 Why does it seem like every NBA fan

0:13 on Twitter specifically hates the Oklahoma City Thunder?

0:16 It's a good question that I don't know if any of us can truly answer it,

0:19 but uh they should be lovable theoretically, right?

0:23 They're a small market team.

0:25 They're organically grown.

0:27 Like that's the kind of team you usually want to see succeed,

0:30 but for whatever reason they seem to inspire a lot of hatred.

0:34 Now, I think like great teams ideally you want to be a split of both, right?

0:39 Like you want a good divide of fans who hate them and love them.

0:42 This seems to be really tilted in one direction.

0:45 And I I can't really put my finger on it,

0:47 but like is it is it the foul baiting that they don't like?

0:51 Is it because we've seen other teams who you know like other teams

0:54 built around stars who get to the line all the time like SJ.

0:56 So why is that such a factor now?

0:58 Is it do people consider him a little bit corny maybe the postgame injuries?

1:01 I don't know.

1:02 There's no exact answer to this question.

1:04 I

1:04 think when you have a guy like Sheay

1:06 like I think he's a very like lovable player.

1:08 Obviously for us he's Canadian.

1:10 The guy's unbelievable.

1:11 If he wins MVP and they win the title this year,

1:13 he's one of the greatest players of all time.

1:15 Like you you put him into that conversation

1:17 based off of last year alone where there was like it was him and 91

1:20 Jordan were the only two guards to put up a certain set of numbers.

1:23 So he's already in that class.

1:24 So, I mean, and people feel a certain way about Shay.

1:26 I think it's almost like a, you know,

1:28 when great teams come, you can see an end point.

1:32 The Thunder don't look like they'll ever be bad just based

1:34 on their future draft draft equity and you got like guys

1:37 like AJ Mitchell coming out of nowhere making like under $3

1:40 million a year and he's just torching opposing teams in the playoffs.

1:44 Topic was supposed to be a huge factor this year.

1:47 guy doesn't even play like

1:48 and they almost got like another top five pick in the lottery

1:51 and they're just going to keep being able to reinforce reinforce.

1:54 So I think like teams like the Warriors for example like you

1:58 know there was going to be an end point to that dynasty.

2:01 I don't see the end point for the Thunder within like

2:04 what next five 10 years because they're all still very young.

2:07 Yeah.

2:07 And I I it's funny you mentioned the Warriors because

2:09 I think there's some legacy connection to them and the Thunder.

2:13 I think people were really upset with the Warriors

2:15 because of how things went with the salary cap

2:17 and then they kind of felt like they manipulated

2:19 it and then they just stacked the deck, right?

2:21 I think there's similar thinking that people have about OKC

2:25 and where I I think it's just a very casual take.

2:29 They didn't cheat whatsoever.

2:30 They played well within the rules and what

2:33 they did was they just drafted very well.

2:35 Like look at guys like AJ Mitchell on the team.

2:37 Now, you can say like, "Oh, well, hey, they tanked for so long that, you know,

2:41 this is inevitable." But look at how many other teams out there

2:43 have tried tanking in this fashion and they never made it work.

2:46 So, I think there's a little bit of that connecting

2:48 to the Warriors legacy they had when the the salary cap changed.

2:52 I don't think they deserve that type of hate.

2:54 Go ahead.

2:54 Did they even really tank for that long when looking

2:56 at other teams in the NBA and how long they've tanked?

2:59 No, but like SGA would sit like second half season.

3:01 It was a couple years, but it was like it was like a two-year stretch.

3:04 So many teams are so much more dishonest with their tanking than OKC.

3:07 the playoffs in the bubble like when Chris Paul was there,

3:09 him and Shay were like playing important games in the playoffs.

3:12 So yeah, it was a weird journey to get here.

3:14 I think you know for us personally because we

3:17 were close to it the trade that the Clippers

3:19 made to poach Kawhi Leonard like that obviously

3:22 set the Thunder up but like credit to Prey,

3:24 credit for them to pounce and to Wes's point, talent evaluation,

3:28 they they pegged Shay, they pegged JDub, you know,

3:31 they pegged Chad and they just said these are

3:33 the guys we're going to roll with and they have

3:34 a title to show for The AJ Mitchell one

3:36 to me is the is the Aaron Paul Breaking Bad.

3:39 THEY CAN'T KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH IT.

3:40 OH, FOR SURE.

3:40 IT'S SO IT'S so rough

3:42 that like I forget who said it this morning before we started.

3:44 It's like, is he a Max player?

3:45 And it's like, no.

3:46 No, but like it's crazy that they can just bring this guy in.

3:49 It's like, yeah, you were second round pick and now you're like a superstar.

3:51 It goes without saying, I think that when you're on top,

3:54 people are just going to hate on you.

3:55 That it comes with the territory when you're the champ

3:57 and you're just kind of crushing everything in your path.

4:00 But on top of what they're doing on the court, look at their cap sheet.

4:04 It's an embarrassment of riches.

4:05 They have small contracts, medium contracts.

4:08 All their big guys are signed.

4:09 They have picks coming out of the wazoo.

4:11 Like what?

4:12 Like to your point, there's no end in sight for these guys, right?

4:15 But like I think what I'm trying to consider here is do they in like maybe

4:20 they're so emotionless that they just destroy everything

4:22 in their path that it makes them less fun.

4:24 Like do you get the same feeling watching

4:26 them as the LeBron Heat or the KD Warriors?

4:30 Do you get that same vibe from them?

4:31 cuz they just kind of feel like they

4:33 run through you and it's like cold callous basketball.

4:36 I would say the KD Warriors, yes, because there was that sense of inevitability.

4:41 And I think to your point, that is what really people are bothered.

4:43 They want to know that there's a chance for another team.

4:46 The LeBron Heat were different because they faced

4:49 adversity throughout that entire run and there was drama.

4:52 OKC, and this is my answer to this, they've almost removed the drama.

4:56 And I'm sure the Spurs might be a bit of a different

4:58 series and I think the Spurs actually have a shot,

5:00 but that to me is what it is.

5:01 is they've kind of taken the drama out of it.

5:03 Well, that didn't happen last year.

5:04 They faced drama last year against the Nuggets

5:06 and against the Pacers in the finals.

5:08 Like, there was drama.

5:09 You know, we were talking before we were taping,

5:10 you know, if Halley doesn't go down in the first quarter.

5:13 Dude, even the Nuggets,

5:14 like I'm still convinced the Nuggets should have won that game seven.

5:16 Ben Matan doesn't miss free throws, you know,

5:19 like there's so many like I think last year's team was like,

5:22 you know, they probably got there a little too early.

5:24 I think earlier than I think a lot of people thought to win it all.

5:27 Now it sort of feels that way, but like credit to them.

5:30 finished first in the West.

5:31 They got like the Suns were a nice story but didn't have enough weapons.

5:34 Lakers no Luca another kind of gift.

5:37 I mean credit they they put themselves in a position to win this year.

5:41 I agree.

5:41 It does feel like there's an an inevitability to it.

5:44 And yeah, you know what?

5:45 Hate them.

5:46 Hate them at your own peril.

5:47 Yeah.

5:47 And I also feel when it comes to star power

5:49 and like people who drive interest from the fan base,

5:52 look at some of the people that are most like resonate most

5:56 with fans right now like Ant-Man wears his heart in his sleeve.

5:59 We willing to cry on the floor.

6:01 Uh these are guys that are like they let their emotions

6:04 be out there and they let that drive um their fandom.

6:08 You know, Javon Shepard, friend of the show on Sports Center all the time.

6:11 like he tells us like Shay, you know,

6:14 he's putting on a show when he's on that podium and he's talking.

6:17 So, you're there's a lack of true authenticity, I think,

6:21 about who he really is because every time he's in front of the mic,

6:24 it's a calculated answer, almost like a canned response.

6:28 The teammates, everybody's lined up there.

6:30 And I think there's a little bit of posturing as opposed to just

6:34 like letting it all hang out there and like being real real.

6:37 I I think that's part of it.

6:38 I I I personally think that's part of it where like you don't

6:40 actually know the real Shay as opposed to some of these other guys.

6:44 You you get a sense you know who they are.

6:45 That's true.

6:46 But I think Shay is also like a pretty model play.

6:49 I mean listen he's he's a very like good idol for young players.

6:52 Like he's he seems like a great dude.

6:54 He's very humble.

6:55 I mean if let's put it this way if he was American playing for the Chicago Bulls

7:01 or the Knicks they'd be like this is

7:02 the next Kobe Bryant generational superstar in the league.

7:06 It's like, but he's Canadian and he plays for the Thunder

7:09 and instead of no emotion, it's, oh, he look how cerebral he is.

7:12 And they would just dress it up differently.

7:13 I think that's a huge part of it.

7:15 They play different positions, but Shay kind of reminds me of Tim Duncan.

7:17 Like you'll you'll never truly appreciate his greatness just because

7:21 this podcast will

7:22 Oh, we love him.

7:23 We love Timmy.

7:23 Top five

7:24 and and yeah, to me like that's why like just the way he goes about himself,

7:28 it's very like unassuming.

7:29 He's got those bars on Instagram again.

7:32 And also, we talked about this last year,

7:34 like our age, you know, we're pretty old, you know, relative.

7:38 Age is just a number, bro.

7:39 As long as you feel young.

7:41 Millennials, this guy just ran 10K, man.

7:42 He did feel great

7:43 with a shade jersey on.

7:47 Hey, man.

7:47 But like, you know, after they won the title last year,

7:51 no one went out and partied, drank, like that was a You know what?

7:54 That's a Demerit point for me.

7:56 I'm sorry.

7:57 You you win the chip and you guys Javon said it was

7:59 like they were roaming around the street not knowing where to go.

8:02 It's like a college night gone wrong like yo you guys just won the title.

8:06 You guys didn't even leave Oklahoma.

8:08 The nonjub Jaylen Williams I mean ask Bill Simmons who's who.

8:11 But he's he he's the only one I think that got really like turn.

8:15 I think yeah to your point he said he was never drinking again.

8:18 H you know different different generations.

8:20 It is what it is.

8:21 I have one more thought that just came up and uh I don't know if you

8:24 feel this way about like the MJ versus

8:26 LeBron debate and then it leaks into this.

8:29 How many of Sha's peers publicly name him as the best player in the NBA?

8:35 Not many.

8:36 I think it's changing though.

8:37 I think we've seen a shift this year

8:39 to everyone being like Joic is undoubtedly the best

8:42 player in the league to h it's a little

8:44 more of a conversation between Shane and Joic.

8:46 So like how do you think like how do you feel other players talk about Wemi?

8:50 They kind of like there's an inevitability how they describe him, right?

8:53 I don't feel like his peers give him his due credit.

8:57 And I think that has a little bit of influence about how you view him,

9:00 especially when no one

9:02 that you look up to as a fan is kind of like anointing him like,

9:06 oh, they deserve it, yada yada.

9:07 Like I I feel that has a little bit to do with it actually.

9:09 I'm thinking about it right now.

9:10 Do you think that's because of style?

9:12 And like let's just all throughout the playoffs, but especially yesterday,

9:16 whenever he wanted, he got to the mid-range and he hit a little mitty.

9:19 And it's like that's not as appealing to watch maybe to the NO, NO, NO.

9:23 I'M NOT SAYING TO US.

9:24 I'M SAYING I KNOW.

9:26 I KNOW.

9:26 BUT I'M SAYING to the current Instagram

9:28 hooper fans who aren't really watching games.

9:31 He's not blowing you away with highlights.

9:33 Fab nailed it.

9:34 Fab nailed it.

9:34 It's cuz he's not American.

9:36 I I think that's a part of it, too.

9:37 I think it's probably maybe a combo of everything.

9:39 But, you know, like listen, the foul baiting stuff,

9:41 all the all the biggest stars do it to some extent.

9:43 I agree.

9:43 Sometimes it can look a little unsavory, but he also drives a lot.

9:49 He blows and drives.

9:50 He gets to the net and that's just a product of being aggressive.

9:54 I think Scotty Barnes even said like, why do people hate on this guy?

9:57 He's just he's going to the net all the time.

9:59 So, yeah, he's gonna get fouls.

10:00 It's been the best season of Shay's career, and it's not even close.

10:03 They're doing all of this with Jaylen

10:04 Williams playing 33 games in the regular season.

10:07 He's been out of the playoffs like and they're still rolling through everyone.

10:11 He's doing this without his number two option which again speaks

10:14 to the depth of OKC but it's the best season of his career.

10:18 He should get his flowers.

10:19 I mean obviously we'll see what happens.

10:21 I would love you know as a basketball

10:22 fan Spurs Thunder like that needs to happen.

10:25 I kind of feel I love what Minnie's doing but

10:27 we deserve will make sure it happens.

10:30 But even the odds even tell us just how inevitable it is.

10:33 Shade to win finals MVP minus 155.

10:36 We're still in the second round for a lot of these teams.

10:38 Thunder win the title minus 175.

10:40 Well, look at it.

10:40 I mean, they're going to be I mean, these first two rounds have not been a test.

10:44 It's unfortunate that Luca was out because I'm not

10:47 saying Lakers would have beat them by any stretch, but that could have gone six.

10:50 Luca would have made them sweat a hell

10:52 of a lot more than they were in the series.

10:53 Game four, listen, LA,

10:55 they they they went all out.

10:57 They played actually great game.

10:58 They were they were hitting a ton of shots in the fourth.

11:00 OKC actually had to level up in that fourth quarter.

11:03 But once again, you look at the all the cards they have to play.

11:06 It's like AJ Mitchell, here's Sheay, you have Chad just throwing down dunks.

11:11 It's like there's guys who aren't even seeing the court.

11:15 Yeah.

11:14 Like Isaiah Joe doesn't even play.

11:16 Aaron Wiggins is even playing.

11:18 These guys, YOU KNOW, THE RAPTORS COULD HAVE USED THESE.

11:20 THESE WOULD HAVE BEEN THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN THE SIXTH

11:22 and seventh best player in the Raptors in the playoffs.

11:24 These guys get DNPs.

11:26 It's funny because Lakers have no one to blame but themselves.

11:28 This could have been a series that they

11:29 hadn't pushed Luca in that regular season game.

11:32 there was the MVP buzz was kind of building up.

11:34 I'm sure he probably also like I know hindsight's 2020,

11:37 but looking back it's like did you really need

11:38 Luca to go hard all out in that unfortunate so

11:42 unfortunate cuz you know I'm at the point where

11:44 I'm like I want to see the Thunder do well.

11:46 I want to see Shay do well.

11:47 We want to see them tested.

11:49 That's the best thing in sports is greatness tested.

11:51 I want to see Shay lead Canada to a World Cup win next summer.

11:54 Like I'm all I'm all in on Shay.

11:56 Like we're invested in him as a as fans, as a company.

11:58 Like all that stuff.

11:59 Like he should be the guy.

12:01 It's just I would like to see them get tested at least

12:04 I think now going forward whoever they play in the East

12:07 whether it's I think it's going to be the Knicks

12:09 but that will be a series especially if OG's back like

12:12 that will be a series I want to see them get

12:14 over a a known like hump you know what I'm saying

12:18 right now I just feel like they've kind of coasted which

12:20 is fine I think they prefer it that way very assassin

12:22 they'll get the Spurs no disrespect

12:24 to Minnesota who man they're absolute dogs they

12:27 they're feisty man and I think someone said

12:29 if when Their backs are scraping against the wall.

12:32 Like never count that team out.

12:34 And shout out to Edwards who has one leg right now.

12:37 And the dude is playing through it like in his veins.

12:40 He's Wolverine.

12:41 He actually is Wolverine.

12:42 Shout out to him, man.

12:43 He's been

12:44 So, but go let's go to that Knicks series because especially yesterday,

12:47 the way they hunted Luke Canard and sorry for hitting the tables.

12:51 No, no, I'm saying when it gets to the Knicks,

12:53 they can hunt they will hunt Jaylen Brunson.

12:56 And like I I don't I'm not as strongly on the Knicks as you.

12:59 I don't give them obviously to it is

13:01 a huge if if OG's healthy that changes everything.

13:04 I think the the finals this is basically Lakers Blazers in 2000.

13:08 Whoever wins Spurs Thunder next round is

13:10 your NBA champion and I think it's inevitable.

13:13 I would I would give the Knicks a chance against the Spurs.

13:15 They beat them in the NBA Cup NBA final rematch.

13:18 Sorry.

13:18 If the if it's Spurs Knicks, yes, I give I'll give the Knicks.

13:23 I think to me I mean I don't like

13:24 to put all my eggs in the Carl Anthony Towns basket.

13:27 Although this playoffs he has been awesome.

13:29 He's been pretty damn good.

13:31 So, you know, I I think the Knicks do have the pieces.

13:34 They got the wing defense.

13:35 Their defense has been great.

13:36 They've won seven in a row.

13:38 Seven games in a row.

13:39 Couple like very tight losses to Atlanta.

13:41 They've kind of found something here.

13:44 I mean, the Thunder like were supposed to be heavy favorites against

13:46 the Pacers last year and kind of struggled their way through it.

13:49 Like, I'm not I'm not ready to crown them.

13:51 I respect it.

13:52 I really really do.

13:53 But I wouldn't sleep on some of these scrappy Eastern Conference teams.

13:58 My big issue with that matchup in a finals

14:00 is when it comes down to like crunch time,

14:03 the Knicks can be way too reliant on needing Jaylen Brunson to just create

14:07 and I think the Thunder defense is perfectly equipped to try to shut that down.

14:10 No, but that's precisely what's changed for them this year.

14:13 I think town's playmaking especially.

14:14 Yeah.

14:14 And then even the way Mike Brown's setting up the other

14:17 wing players to do more um off ball getting themselves easier looks.

14:21 I think all that's changed a little bit to make

14:22 I I I think we all are actually kind

14:24 of underelling the Knicks a little bit in terms

14:26 of how they've changed this year with the coaching change.

14:29 But my point is actually the Pacers point that you said

14:32 like the Thunder obviously they've they've flown through these first two rounds.

14:36 But they had a lot of red flags through their championship run last year.

14:40 It wasn't clean whatsoever.

14:42 The Spurs series, even the Timberwolves series, I think coming up,

14:45 they're they might get exposed a few times.

14:48 They might figure it out, but they still might get exposed.

14:50 And then with the Knicks, for as flawed as they are,

14:52 they have a lot of strengths that I don't

14:54 think OKC also has a lot of counters to.

14:57 So, I just don't I don't I don't think

15:00 it's as clean as we think it's going to be,

15:01 even though the first two rounds have been.

15:03 OKC is going to have it tough these next two rounds.

15:05 It's just they haven't seen anything.

15:07 Let me get a question for all you guys then.

15:09 Who do you think has a better chance of beating them?

15:10 The Spurs or the Knicks?

15:12 Spurs.

15:12 The Spurs.

15:13 Spurs.

15:13 They've done it four times.

15:14 And I think like the big thing here,

15:16 have you?

15:16 Yeah, I probably the Spurs just because WMBBY

15:19 poses so many problems for their interior scoring

15:21 and I love their guard depth as well.

15:23 I think that will really help.

15:24 Like tip of the cap obviously to the Thunder supporting cast,

15:27 but Jaylen Williams had monster games in last year's playoffs, the finals.

15:31 He had a 40 point like

15:34 they don't have Jayd and you can I'm not

15:36 saying you could take quoteunquote Shay out of the game,

15:38 but you can shade your defense to completely remove him from the equation just

15:41 by showing him bodies and kind of pressuring

15:44 him up into the court the entire time.

15:46 you're going to rely on guys like Lou Dort to hit shots,

15:49 Alex Caruso to hit shots.

15:50 The variance in that can go the other way.

15:52 I think OKC's defense can obviously get them

15:55 to a point where they'll be in mostly every game,

15:58 but there are ways that this thing can fall apart.

16:00 So, like on the one hand,

16:02 they're a juggernaut and you have to respect what they're doing.

16:04 Shay's having a monster year, but without JDub, it's not a lock to me.

16:09 100%.

16:09 And we also we have to keep reminding

16:11 ourselves these first two series were not real tests.

16:14 Yeah, they were.

16:15 We're talking about a a Lakers team without Luca and a Suns team that was

16:19 happy to be happy to even be in the playoffs.

16:21 Like, let's be honest.

16:22 So,

16:23 they're going to have to play two more tough series.

16:24 That's a guarantee whether it's the Spurs or the Wolves.

16:27 And then you'd like to think it's the Knicks in the final.

16:30 The the Cavs seem to keep coming back from the dead.

16:33 So, we we'll see.

16:34 So, the Cavs are interesting.

16:35 Let's I mean, so let's let's let's move to that series

16:37 because I think it's a very very interesting series thus far.

16:40 Raps rap stock going up.

16:42 Raptock for sure going up.

16:43 The Cavs apparently like no series has really started

16:45 yet because they've only won home games the entire time.

16:48 They've only won at home games.

16:50 But um like the Cavs are kind of I mean

16:53 they're having their way a little bit with the Pistons

16:56 those last two games almost like you know as someone

16:58 who has money on the Pistons to make the conference finals.

17:00 I'm a little worried.

17:01 I'm a little worried because you know when they decide

17:03 to put Evan Mobley who had probably the best game

17:06 of his career in game four defensively especially they decide

17:09 to put him on Tobias Harris who's now known playoff threat.

17:13 stud when that happened.

17:14 But like the Cavs like you know Raptors y'all did that with two

17:19 starters pretty much out Ingram pretty much no showed for the first few games.

17:23 I mean it's it's funny way to perceive that series particularly from a Raptors

17:27 lens but also like can that team can the Cavs actually do something?

17:31 Are they an actual finals team?

17:32 I don't buy it.

17:33 I still think they have some holes but I don't know.

17:36 It's just uh it's very interesting to evaluate.

17:38 Yeah, my I mean my favorite takeaway so

17:41 far from watching this second round series is Mitchell.

17:44 Obviously now he's he's he's gone off what

17:47 a great nod for Scotty Barnes and the Raps defense.

17:49 Like the Pistons are top three defense.

17:51 They're supposed to be better than the Raptors on that end.

17:55 Scotty Barnes stock.

17:56 Scotty Barntock looks really good right now.

17:58 I'm just saying I mean I have to be objective here.

18:01 I trust the Cavs to win this series more than the Pistons at this point.

18:04 I know they can't win on the road, but the talent is there.

18:09 Say what you want about Harden.

18:10 He was pretty good last night.

18:12 Moy probably the best role player in the NBA.

18:14 And

18:15 what a backhanded compliment.

18:17 I love it.

18:17 He's a great aren't watching us anymore.

18:20 That hurts.

18:20 That hurts.

18:21 But um you know, listen, they're they they played well the last two games.

18:24 They're gonna obviously have to win on the road.

18:26 I don't like them in a series against the Knicks.

18:28 I would take the Knicks over them probably even without OG.

18:32 But the Pistons have shown that they don't

18:35 have enough secondary scoring or creation outside of Kade at all.

18:39 Not even enough.

18:40 They don't have anything.

18:41 Kade has been a turnover machine.

18:42 Jaylen Dur, it's going to be really awkward when he

18:44 gets named AllNBA second team because that dude has seen ghosts.

18:48 It's very limited.

18:50 Yeah.

18:50 You know, right?

18:50 Like he's he's not given them anything.

18:52 Like Paul Reed flat out was better than him yesterday.

18:55 And they have an Assar Thompson problem.

18:57 like rough.

18:58 He has moments where he's obviously just like a dynamic defender.

19:02 You can't play him on the court though late in games offensively.

19:04 And he just like the mindless turnovers like you

19:07 just like if you're just an if you can't shoot

19:10 and you're just an empty player on offense unless

19:12 you're in the dunker spot and getting like put backs.

19:15 You can't just like turn the ball over

19:18 and just make mindless mistakes over and over again.

19:21 He was really bad in game four.

19:23 So yeah, I mean the Pistons, they were kind of wobbling the entire run, too.

19:28 Like they went to seven against the Magic.

19:29 I think to your point, you know, once Fron went down,

19:32 then the Pistons kind of grabbed hold of that series.

19:35 Cleveland's been healthy.

19:36 Donovan Mitchell's cooking late.

19:38 Like, you know, going back to the Raptor series, Mitchell cooked early.

19:41 Yeah.

19:41 And then disappeared from

19:42 and then the Raptors game plans with again, maybe, you know,

19:44 credit to Darkoic like he was not

19:47 that impactful down the stretch of that series.

19:49 So, it's just uh it's just a very interesting dynamic to witness.

19:53 I still, again, to put a bow on it,

19:55 Knicks looked like the most formidable team in the East.

19:58 Yeah, I was just gonna say like of the three East teams,

20:00 if they were to size up against the Thunder in the finals,

20:03 I think the Pistons have the shortest odds to get swept.

20:07 They match up very poorly in my opinion about against a team like OKC.

20:10 Cleveland, they have the talent.

20:12 And then the Knicks, they're looking very formidable.

20:14 And I think they actually have a real shot to test them.

20:17 This Cavs team to me, it's just they're so inconsistent.

20:19 It's like they're extreme highs and extreme lows,

20:22 but I think for this series specifically,

20:25 they just have so much more talent and so many

20:27 more creative off creators offensively that Detroit can't hang with that.

20:30 Yeah, they have more they have more levers to pull as Fab likes to say.

20:34 They just have more options.

20:35 They got shooting, you know,

20:36 if you if they don't want to play Dean Wade in Okay,

20:39 Sam Merrell, Max Duce around Harden Mitchell.

20:42 Like, man, that's just every position.

20:44 It's as simple as right now they've gotten away

20:47 with just out talenting the Raptors and now the Pistons.

20:49 We're seeing I mean even though it's 2-2 they're

20:51 kind of out talenting them the last two games.

20:53 They won't be able to do that after the series.

20:55 They're not going to out talent the Knicks if they get to the final.

20:58 They ain't out talenting anybody in the in the West.

21:00 So

21:01 yeah.

21:01 And you think like Jaylen Brunson, you know,

21:03 Thunder would pick on him like wait till

21:04 they get to Mitchell and Harden like like

21:07 Shay just gonna hunt those dudes if they

21:09 get there or even Brunson finds those guys.

21:12 Like it's just um that's going to be barbecue chicken.

21:15 Okay, let's let's talk about what we all really want to talk about.

21:19 Oh, and that's the draft lottery.

21:20 I thought you were going to say LeBron retiring.

21:22 Hold on.

21:22 Let's No, no, we're not doing that.

21:23 Just, you know,

21:24 I don't want to get I DON'T WANT TO I DON'T WANT TO SEE LIKE THE NATURAL SEGUE.

21:26 I don't want to get emotional.

21:28 Don't worry, LeBron's coming back.

21:29 You got nothing to worry about.

21:31 Yeah.

21:32 And then when LeBron when LeBron finally does retire in five or six years,

21:35 that's gonna be a sad day.

21:37 You're embarrassing yourself.

21:38 Okay.

21:39 Draft lottery.

21:40 Wizards win the lottery, Utah second, Grizzlies, Bulls,

21:44 the to me the We'll get into this in a second though,

21:46 but the Clippers is where everything kind of got crazy with pick five.

21:49 But biggest winner, biggest loser, Wes, let's start this one off with you.

21:53 I real quick, biggest loser,

21:54 obviously Pacers and enough that the GM had to go out and say it.

21:57 Simple as that.

21:58 That tweet was kind of that was crazy.

22:00 I will say this though, you know, as a gambling guy,

22:02 I just want to point out, you know, if I got ace king suit to pre flop,

22:06 you know, no matter what hand you have,

22:09 I'm going to shove all like I'm willing to shove all in pre flop

22:12 cuz you're basically at worst, you know,

22:15 getting got by pocket aces, pocket kings.

22:17 Otherwise, you're 50/50 almost the rest of the way.

22:20 That that's what the Pacers did there.

22:22 They were willing to take a swing at a 50/50 shot.

22:26 And guess what?

22:26 That's sometimes what happens when you gamble.

22:28 You know what?

22:28 Heads or tails?

22:29 You know what though?

22:30 I think it it's still I think a somewhat

22:32 defensible decision because they did top four protect.

22:34 So they thought to themselves if we're not getting

22:36 one of these Deansa Peterson types, we're okay with it.

22:40 Like they still got an all-star caliber center in Zubots.

22:43 I know it looks bad on the aggregate, but they weren't going to pay Matine.

22:47 So throwing him in that trade as if like like he was just going to leave.

22:50 They weren't willing to give a contract he wants.

22:52 So I don't think it's like a complete disaster.

22:54 But yeah, they gambled on hopefully keeping that.

22:56 And my other quick point on the hindsight was like, yeah, hindsight's 50/50.

23:00 And then you have all the other hindsight wars out there.

23:03 OH, THE RAPTORS SHOULD HAVE NEVER done that trade

23:05 in the first place knowing they're going to

23:09 end injury.

23:10 Like, yeah, like come on.

23:11 Like, don't don't There's a lot of Raptors trades we can look back on.

23:15 I don't know if that was the the one I think of most, but yeah, you

23:19 I think it's just it's not that they're Yes, they are the biggest loser,

23:22 but it's just they could have if the Pacers

23:24 win that lottery or get a top three pick,

23:27 then we maybe look at them as can this team compete with OKC for a title,

23:31 they're hands down the best team in the East next year.

23:33 I mean, it's good for the East that they didn't get that pick.

23:36 If you're if you're other teams in the East, you're like, thank you.

23:38 They land one of those top four picks,

23:40 it's a monster swing up that they missed it now.

23:43 It's not like they're they're crushed.

23:45 They're still competitive.

23:47 Here come the Wizards, man.

23:48 So, is that is that your biggest winner?

23:50 Yeah.

23:50 Yeah.

23:50 Washington.

23:51 I think Washington has a great core.

23:53 They got a couple Canadians in there, too.

23:55 So, there's a little more interest for us with Will Riley and uh and George.

23:58 So, it's like for me, I think if you add I I still

24:01 think Darren Pearson's the best player in the draft,

24:03 but you know, that seems the odds have flipped the other way.

24:06 Minus 450 devs to go first overall.

24:08 That's kind of crazy.

24:09 Uh good for them.

24:10 Good good for the Whiz.

24:11 I think they're a team that's on the rise in the East along with the Hornets.

24:17 Uh they got they're finally rebuilding the right right way

24:19 and this is like the last year you can actually do this.

24:22 So yeah, I mean listen man, it's it's the draft.

24:25 I agree with Wes.

24:26 Like Pacers had to do a thing.

24:27 You had to you had to try your best.

24:30 You got they looked at last year they lost Miles Turner.

24:32 You have to shore up that center position.

24:35 And I think the Harley Zubach pick and roll will be dynamic.

24:39 Yeah, he'll be good.

24:40 He'll be good with them.

24:40 Like you have to you gave up a lot more than you want.

24:43 But it's like that doesn't make Zubat a worse player.

24:44 He's still a great player.

24:45 Scare money don't make money.

24:47 Exactly.

24:47 Like Indie they took a swing.

24:49 Washington I just want to point out at the deadline pre- agency

24:52 they took some swings too.

24:54 So you know that's a playoff team next year.

24:56 Like shout out to them.

24:57 They took some pretty big swings that I don't think was

25:00 traditionally what people would expect them in that position to do.

25:03 And they got the number one pick now.

25:04 So like they got it all.

25:05 So like shout out to them for actually winning on all front.

25:08 That's a quick retool potentially there like at least in the regular season.

25:11 I mean you still have Trey Young on your team so who knows but my winner

25:15 80 20 games.

25:17 I remember talking to TSN favorite Tony Rosenberg the only

25:20 Utah Jazz fan I've ever met in my entire life.

25:23 He's like they have not once in their entire lifetime moved up

25:26 in the draft and it seems like they've been tanking for a long time.

25:30 I really like the makeup of this Jazz team now

25:33 with the second pick and all of the pieces that they have.

25:36 We talked about it during our fantasy battle

25:37 of both what we like with both Sensiba and Bailey.

25:40 Yeah, the the Triple J.

25:42 Like there's there's nice fun things happening in Utah.

25:45 I'm excited for the Jazz, man.

25:47 I like that they're going to get one of the two.

25:49 I hope it's Deba just so Dansa can kind

25:50 of keep his whole life in Utah as it's been.

25:53 But yeah, it's the Jazz, man.

25:54 And I'm I'm excited to see them finally like

25:57 try like how long has this tank been going on?

26:00 Oh, Markinan finally gets to try and win games after about five years.

26:04 Yeah.

26:04 Yeah.

26:04 He's, you know, he's almost at the end of his career,

26:06 but, you know, he can try to compete next year.

26:08 I have a buddy of mine, David Reachi.

26:09 Shout out big two, big time Utah Jazz fan.

26:12 Few and far between, but shout out to them.

26:13 I just think like the Jazz now probably need one

26:16 like solid veteran guy because they got all the talent.

26:20 But isn't Triple J that I wouldn't I wouldn't classify him as solid.

26:25 What What's What has he really achieved?

26:27 Right.

26:27 I'm saying like you need a guy who's kind of achieved

26:29 a little bit because you got so much talent now on this team.

26:32 one ball five.

26:33 But does isn't Triple J's fit kind of perfect for that?

26:36 Cuz he doesn't need the ball.

26:37 Is he a leader?

26:38 I don't know that.

26:39 That's what I'm saying.

26:39 I I think they need now is what they need is they just need one leader

26:43 to like kind of help elevate everybody up

26:45 because you couldn't even call Mark in that.

26:46 Well, Mark has not done anything either, right?

26:48 So, I think they need just kind of that type of presence lift uh rising tides.

26:53 Will Hardy needs a winning season.

26:54 Yeah, he does.

26:55 If you look back, or does he want that?

26:56 Because it's like he can just float and be like, "No, no, I'm a good coach.

26:58 You just don't have the players.

26:59 I just keep my job, my paycheck." you look back

27:01 at his like record as like a history as a coach,

27:04 you're just like, "Oh man, so misleading.

27:06 It's so bad." Like, but you know,

27:07 those are those are the licks you just kind of have to take.

27:10 Yeah, I think to me it's just um good for the Jazz, man.

27:12 I actually think I mean, what's uh what's DP to go first overall?

27:16 Let me check right now.

27:17 Kind of like it.

27:17 I mean, we talked about this in the Marchus 450.

27:21 Um and then DP is plus 330.

27:24 Poos are plus 2,000.

27:25 Don't just I'll take your action.

27:26 Anyone who wants to make that bet, I will take your action.

27:28 I would also I'd take Caleb Bolson to go

27:29 third overall if those odds come out as well.

27:31 I think he's I think he's more of a player.

27:33 Shout out to the Grizz.

27:34 Got third overall pick as well.

27:36 Oh yeah, you made some money on that.

27:37 There you go.

27:37 I had a feeling, man.

27:38 I had a feeling.

27:38 Uh I think to me DP is just a better hooper than Debba.

27:42 I'm looks like I'm in the minority, but uh good good for the Jazz.

27:46 Good for all these teams.

27:46 I'm actually like, you know, it's funny with all this lottery reform.

27:50 You kind of still want to see the worst teams get better.

27:53 So parody just kind of exists throughout the league.

27:55 It's just the nefarious ways in which it's done.

27:58 It's very unsavory, but it's it's a good result at the end of the day.

28:02 The way the draft or Yeah.

28:03 the way the lottery went like worked out pretty well.

28:06 Like, you know, reasonable.

28:06 Like, it was okay.

28:07 Washington.

28:08 Yeah.

28:08 Makes sense.

28:08 They got number one.

28:09 It's it's the March and April games that you have to sit through to get there.

28:13 That was the whole issue, right?

28:14 So, what about you?

28:14 Who's your biggest winner or loser?

28:16 Um, biggest loser?

28:18 Brooklyn Nets.

28:20 Yeah, they they went all in trying to get top four.

28:22 Vince didn't bring the good luck.

28:23 They didn't get top four.

28:25 Um, Raptors legend Vince Carter was representing them at the draft.

28:29 So, unfortunately for him, he didn't bring them any luck.

28:31 Sorry, Vince.

28:33 And, uh, go on.

28:34 No, no.

28:35 And you know what?

28:36 They They're a team that used five first round picks last year,

28:39 and maybe one of them is good.

28:41 So, we don't know yet.

28:42 Brooklyn Nets.

28:42 We got time.

28:43 Yeah, we got time.

28:44 No, no, you I think I'm sure you

28:45 have more thoughts on Vince Carter representing the Nets.

28:48 I mean, listen, it is what it is, man.

28:49 I mean, the guys are, you know, we the Raptors put his, you know,

28:52 they put his jersey in the Raptors and he's out here,

28:55 you know, hoping Debansa goes to the Nets, you know.

28:57 Make of that what you will.

28:58 I I mean, call me a hater.

28:59 I don't really care.

29:00 I've made my bed.

29:01 The Vince GIF that we loved is now meaningless.

29:05 You never want to see it again.

29:06 It's fraudulent behavior.

29:07 I'll say it if Fab's not going to say it.

29:09 Like, come on, man.

29:10 Once these cameras turn off, fab you've wound Fab up.

29:12 You know he's going to go off.

29:13 I'm just saying you don't have to be their rep.

29:14 I know I know the Nets retired your jersey as well, but you know what?

29:17 Like, why are you doing that, man?

29:18 You you want this guy you you want the Nets to be better against the Raptors.

29:22 I don't know what what do you stand for, man.

29:24 It is what it is.

29:25 I agree.

29:26 Yeah.

29:27 We're not going to top that.

29:28 That's it for us.

29:28 Catch us on Apple you YouTube Apple YouTube Spotify.

29:32 Wherever you get your podcast.

29:33 Were you just doing the Vinskit?

29:34 Yeah.

29:34 There we go.

29:35 Uh we'll be back next week.